You do and we have a special guest today because we're going to be talking about something we haven't talked about yet. Well, actually, we did a little bit, did we? We talked about comic conventions. It's and with us is Matt, who? And I thought having Matt on would be cool because.

00:00:42 Speaker 2

This is finished.

00:00:47

Hey, what's up?

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He also is of of our age and.

00:00:57 Speaker 1

And he has gone to different conventions than we have. I've I'm the. I'm the one that's gone to probably the most uninteresting conventions, because I just have gone locally and to Detroit and Chicago. You guys have been all over the place. So I thought with Mike.

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You know, going to San Diego and Matt living in different areas of the country too, I thought it would be interesting to hear some different perspectives.

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And some different convention story.

00:01:27

From the.

00:01:30 Speaker 1

That we could all share a little bit of and we don't have to tell them all in this one because I'm sure we'll have other other convention podcast eventually. Matt, welcome, Matt. Since we haven't had a guest on before and I I kind of know the answer to this question, but.

00:01:42 Speaker 3

Thank you.

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When did you start collecting commits?

00:01:52 Speaker 3

Ohh man probably.

00:01:55 Speaker 3

I mean, I had comics from, like, very, very early on there, but they mostly my hand me down from my brother. I think my dad liked comics from when he was a kid and bought a bunch of Spiderman comics from my brother, and he wasn't super interested in them. So when I inherited.

00:02:16 Speaker 3

They were in pretty good shape and I still actually have them, so probably 5 to 8 years old.

00:02:22 Speaker 1

OK. Yeah. About the same time I did.

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Mine was mine was closer to 8 and.

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Five, but yeah, my.

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Brother, I guess had a few comics before I did, and I kind of inherited that.

00:02:33 Speaker 1

So that's pretty similar.

Inherit. Do you mean you actually got them? Or would they serendipitously stolen?

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Probably a little.

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Bit of both, you know, like I don't think he really cared about him. He would just kind of leave him on the floor of his bedroom and I pick him up and read him and then they would sort of migrate to my.

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Room. So yeah, I guess I stole them.

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Yeah, confession is good for the.

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Soul. That's right.

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Yeah. And then what? What kept?

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You going collecting comics?

00:03:05 Speaker 3

Well, I had probably the same like 10 or 12 comics for probably years and then, you know, as a lot of guys our age, I started watching like Spiderman is in and his amazing friends.

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And you know, there was an episode that had X-Men in it. And I remember my birthday was coming up and I found out that Marvel had like a subscription service. So my dad decided to buy me a couple subscriptions to probably Spiderman and like Star Wars or something like.

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That and X-Men. And then I started getting.

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Subscription. Totally ragged. Of course, when you get them in the mail.

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And I hope.

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They were destroyed, right? Yeah.

00:03:46 Speaker 2

I don't think the Postal Service is necessarily the kindest to comic books.

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No, no. And I got them back when they were in those brown paper sleeves that were like, you know, half of them were glued to the cover.

00:03:59 Speaker 1

Right. And there'd always.

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Be a fold right down the middle, maybe? Yeah.

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I definitely had a couple of those too. I'm not sure when I started.

00:04:07 Speaker 1

With the male ways, I think I I got a, you know when when the new Teen Titans and the Legion of Superheroes started going to Baxter. Formatting like in the mid 80s. I think that's when I started getting those through the mail and probably just probably just for a year or two. I don't think I probably did much more than that.

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But yeah, I definitely remembered they would be rough shape when when I got.

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Them and, but I still love loved getting that in the mail. You know, once, once a month.

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Burning out and meeting.

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Did they come into plastic? Did they come?

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Into plastic sleeves.

00:04:42 Speaker 1

No, I I remember the the paper bag kind of thing. So convention wise and I got I have some questions. I guess I could start with those, but the the con game, yeah.

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The con game.

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But Mike, you, you've been to a few conventions like we started going out to conventions and I tried to remember what our.

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First one was.

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I think like legit convention would have been.

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The IT was the Dearborn, which is now, I think the Novi Convention but.

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In Dearborn.

00:05:18 Speaker 1

Yeah, before that I went to a couple. I think my dad took me like they had the Holiday Inn, which was where it was just, you know, those those were great because they were just kind of like there was no toys. It was a bunch of comic dealers renting a a room at the Holiday Inn, you know, on 28th St. here in here in Grand Rapids.

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And just, you know, we would just go in and.

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And it was just box after box after box box of long boxes and I just I remember I think that's where I met Dave Stevens, who's one of the first people I met at at a con, which is pretty great. Yeah. And I think that was, I think that was prior to us going to Dearborn, but maybe not.

00:05:52 Speaker 2

That's pretty amazing.

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The rocketeer.

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I'm trying to. I'm trying to think what year.

00:06:03 Speaker 1

That was, and that was. That was one of my great special moments meeting Dave Stevens. You know, not bad for starting out at a convention. You know, it was. It's just a great memory of of just going there and buying comics and, you know, meeting that it was. So it was so small. Like, he was probably one of two guests there, you know, in total.

00:06:24 Speaker 1

And just meeting him was pretty cool. But after that, yeah, Dearborn. And, you know, I've been to Chicago, both both conventions there and stuff like that, but that's pretty much like where I've been at. But Mike, I know you've been to.

00:06:38 Speaker 1

A couple places.

00:06:40 Speaker 2

I haven't. Yeah. A few. No. Do you want to keep it to kind of conventions or also game conventions?

00:06:49 Speaker 1

Let's try and keep it to.

00:06:50 Speaker 2

Comic that's the name of the podcast itself.

00:06:51 Speaker 2

OK.

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It's why I love comics, you know.

00:06:56 Speaker 2

Yeah. And you know, asterisks and games.

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And games. I do love games too, but.

00:07:03 Speaker 2

No, in that case. Yeah, it was, you know.

00:07:06 Speaker 2

The New York.

00:07:08 Speaker 2

Comic Con went that several times, and the San Diego Comic Con several times. Wizard world here there's mattering around the areas and then you have the Chicago Comic Con before it became Wizard World.

00:07:21 Speaker 1

Right. And some of that was.

00:07:22 Speaker 1

Your working like.

00:07:23 Speaker 2

Yeah, which is a whole new perspective. When you're in a booth. Holy crap. That is like a completely different world than in when you're walking the floor.

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And I think you know the whole thing.

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Is is that when you're in a booth, the celebrities come to you and it's at their pace so that you actually have a conversation as opposed to next. Who's next? Come.

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On keep the line moving.

00:07:51 Speaker 1

Waiting in line, yeah.

00:07:52 Speaker 2

Yeah. So that was pretty amazing that that was always like whenever we went to San Diego. That was like, holy crap, I didn't want, like, it's one of those things was like give me a catheter and it depends.

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And I will never leave this bullet.

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Because you never knew who was gonna come next.

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To the booth. You didn't want to miss any.

00:08:13 Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

00:08:16 Speaker 1

Yeah. And Matt?

00:08:16 Speaker 3

What, what years were these?

00:08:19 Speaker 2

I would say power from like right with the San.

00:08:23 Speaker 2

It was right, as is booming, so it was the years like 2000 to 2004. Nope, scratch.

New York was like 2011.

Kind of that blurs, but yeah, the New York, I I didn't go there and tell us with another company.

00:08:53 Speaker 1

Yeah, you were working for a toy company, right?

00:08:55 Speaker 2

Yeah, at that.

00:08:56 Speaker 2

Point the game company.

00:08:57 Speaker 2

Yeah, the first toy company I went to work at, the San Diego Comic Con all the time, and then the the game company I went to San Diego as part of like an inventors suite where I'd meet up with different game inventors and toy.

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Vendors and I would go through all California and just coincidentally wind up at San Diego Comic Con to meet with people. So that was great. And then but the so I was at the game company for that part. That's we're trailed off for San Diego and then it was even possible to be a booth.

00:09:29 Speaker 2

At San Diego, unless you had like, basically inherited a book.

00:09:35 Speaker 2

You just you or I like a three or four year waiting list just to exhibit at the show, but we're New York Comic Con. They were just eager to have anybody. I mean, like, I think the first year we were there, 5 hour energy drink. Was it the next move over and.

00:09:53 Speaker 2

Nothing says Comic Con like a five hour, and they what was great was that they were giving.

00:09:58 Speaker 2

Samples. So like when you're on your feet all the time. Crap, man, that battery acid was amazing. It kept it going.

00:10:05 Speaker 1

It's like the gutters the the Grand Rapids Comic Con, right?

00:10:09 Speaker 3

Gutter con, yeah.

00:10:13 Speaker 1

Matt. Matt, you you've gone to a few conventions, but I don't. I don't know which ones you've been to.

00:10:17 Speaker 1

So which ones?

00:10:19 Speaker 3

Well, I'm kind of jealous because.

00:10:20 Speaker 3

I've always wanted to go to San Diego, but I did go to the New York Comic Con before.

00:10:27 Speaker 3

It was called.

00:10:28 Speaker 3

Comic Con. It was called something like New York comic extravaganza or something like that. This is like in the early 90s, like 92 or 93 went to. There was an A big one in Philadelphia. That one may have been called the Philadelphia comic book extravaganza. It was like 93 or 94.

00:10:48 Speaker 3

And there's a a total metric ton of those holiday.

00:10:52 Speaker 3

And type conventions that I went to, which actually were my.

00:10:56 Speaker 3

Favorite you know?

00:10:57 Speaker 3

Like the big conventions, they were fun and it was great people watching and but you know, just so many people there and and maybe like, you know, 40% comics and probably even less nowadays. But those Holiday Inn comics, comic cons were.

00:11:13 Speaker 3

Fantastic. It would be like 95%, just comic boxes.

00:11:16 Speaker 1

Yeah, those are great.

00:11:17 Speaker 3

Probably my favorite was New York or Philly.

00:11:22 Speaker 1

Just just the the people you met or just.

00:11:26 Speaker 1

The early experience.

00:11:26 Speaker 3

Ohh it was just kind of.

00:11:28 Speaker 3

Yeah, early experience, you know, is probably my first really big convention and it was, you know.

00:11:36 Speaker 3

Probably everyone from the comic industry and you know all the names that you knew about and probably all the ones that I should have known about. I remember at the time I was bringing a portfolio around and shopping it around to different comic companies. And I had a portfolio review.

00:11:55 Speaker 3

By Ross Andrew and who? I had no idea who he was at that time, and I was.

Right. And he was super cool and he was really nice, very soft spoken. He gave me some really good advice. He liked my drawings. And at the time he was, I guess, maybe doing a little bit of work for this little independent comment company called Silver Skull.

00:12:17 Speaker 3

Or something like that.

00:12:19 Speaker 3

And he sent me over there with my samples to talk to the.

00:12:22 Speaker 3

Editor and I gave the samples to the editor and that was kind of the last time I I.

But I remember he signed one of my Spiderman comic books for me because I knew enough to like, you know, look around to see if I had a comic with his name in it. And so I grabbed the Spiderman and for the life of me I cannot find that comic anywhere. I think he signed it somewhere on the inside of one of the comics. And I I.

00:12:47 Speaker 3

Just can't find it, but anyway.

00:12:49 Speaker 3

I got to talk to Ross. Andrew.

00:12:50 Speaker 3

For like 30 or 40 minutes.

00:12:52 Speaker 1

That's pretty cool, yeah.

00:12:53 Speaker 2

That's amazing.

00:12:55 Speaker 3

And there were lots of other people. You know, Todd McFarlane was getting really big at the time. And, you know, that's when you'd stand in line for two hours to, you know.

00:13:02 Speaker 3

Your, you know Spiderman or your spawn signed and you know, just just everybody. It's like the early 90s when it was just exploding, you know, like Spiderman 2099. You can meet like everyone who worked on it. You know. So yeah, it was just. It was just ridiculous. And I remember I brought my dad with me and my best friend.

00:13:23 Speaker 3

Dave came with me and we just had such a.

00:13:25 Speaker 3

Great time.

00:13:26 Speaker 1

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

00:13:27 Speaker 1

Yeah, that's one of my one of my favorite conventions. We went to, Mike was.

00:13:33 Speaker 1

The Chicago con, where image was just just started. You know, they just did this image. They had a big tent in the back. They couldn't even fit it in the hotel. And I think that was the 1st.

00:13:44 Speaker 1

Time that we.

00:13:46 Speaker 1

Didn't get her right. Like we drove down there and we got a hotel. The hotel at the Ramada where the convention was, which was great because we could just walk down and back up to our room and stuff like that. When the image tent was in the back and we got to meet you.

00:13:59 Speaker 1

All the image creators and stuff like that, that that was pretty cool to me. It was like 94. I think it was and.

00:14:06 Speaker 2

Yeah, right around that time, 394.

00:14:08 Speaker 1

Yeah, and and just, you know, get it going down the line, there was a huge line we had to wait for like 2 hours to get through it. And you, you had your portfolio and people were looking at yours from image and stuff like that and and you know what I what I always ended up doing a lot of my convention time was.

00:14:28 Speaker 1

I would watch them critique portfolios because, you know, I wanted to be a writer and you were an artist.

00:14:34 Speaker 1

And I I wanted to see what they would talk about to the artists and stuff like that. So it's kind of geeky now that I think about it, which I mean.

00:14:46 Speaker 1

But you know, I I remember spending probably a couple hours while you were wandering off doing other.

00:14:51 Speaker 1

Things and just watching DC people or Marvel people critique different portfolios and I was probably the guy.

00:15:00 Speaker 1

That the the critiquer would keep looking at going. Who are you? You know, why are you sending here? But I.

00:15:06 Speaker 1

But I would kind of creep back in and just listen and, you know, just hear what they had to say. I'm not sure what I was trying to gain out of it, but it's probably interesting anyway. And you know, that was a fun time for me, hearing what other people critique about artists, different artists or something.

00:15:25 Speaker 1

That was very interesting.

00:15:28 Speaker 2

Yeah, that was.

00:15:29 Speaker 2

That tent I I had shown myself. There was a an artist named Brian Murray, similar to Ross Andrew story, but similar. Brian Murray is.

00:15:39 Speaker 2

Like oh man.

00:15:40 Speaker 2

You got to talk to this, Rob.

00:15:41 Speaker 2

Leifeld he he he's the person you want to.

10 and I introduced myself. You know, there's Brian Murray, and I don't think he was there, but he kind of like goes, oh, yeah, this is the guy I was telling you about. And so he had me come around.

00:16:00 Speaker 2

To the backside of.

00:16:01 Speaker 2

The table and I was sitting.

00:16:02 Speaker 1

That very jealous.

00:16:04 Speaker 2

Yeah, but I got to sit and talk with.

00:16:06 Speaker 2

The iPhone for a while and so.

00:16:10 Speaker 2

I was in between.

00:16:10 Speaker 2

Leifeld and Eric Larson. And while Leifeld was kind of like signing things and then talk a little bit and sign.

00:16:18 Speaker 2

Things and talk a little bit.

00:16:20 Speaker 2

I thought well, Larson isn't, you know.

As life was, so I thought, you know what? I'll just sketch like a whatever savage dragon I was going to sketch him. So I I started drawing out Savage Dragon's head. And then Larson goes. No, the the sin comes straight out like it's a 90° angles.

00:16:40 Speaker 2

From his forehead was like, oh, OK, so I got a a lesson on how to draw a Sam's dragon from Eric Larson.

00:16:47 Speaker 2

And then I heard another voice going like that's not bad. And I turn and as I'm turning, I swung my elbow around to see who it was that said it. And I just elbowed.

00:16:56 Speaker 2

Todd McFarlane and was like.

00:16:58 Speaker 2

Not a bad, not a bad little moment there in.

00:17:01 Speaker 2

My life early career.

All there from Jim Lee, Wells Portacio and.

00:17:08 Speaker 1

That's Jim Ling.

00:17:11 Speaker 2

And then Mark Silvestri, I mean it was like the and it wasn't Brian Murray. I think Brian Murray was at Dearborn, but then?

00:17:20 Speaker 1

Yeah, we met him at Dearborn. He was a really nice guy. He was Jim. Was it Valentine, Tino.

00:17:25 Speaker 2

Valentino Jim Valentino's, the one who said you got to talk to Rob Liefeld because those two were like, really tight.

00:17:33 Speaker 3

What did he do? Like Nighthawk or something like that?

00:17:36 Speaker 3

What did he do?

00:17:36 Speaker 2

Yeah, dark, dark hawk. Was that right or?

00:17:39 Speaker 2

Shadow Hawk, shadow hawk.

00:17:40 Speaker 3

Shadow hawk? Yes, something with.

00:17:43 Speaker 1

Hawk. Yeah, he did. The original guardians of the Galaxy. No, wait. Yeah. For marvel. Yeah, he did that with the futuristic guardians of the.

00:17:45 Speaker 2

Yeah. So it's kind of my.

00:17:53 Speaker 1

Galaxy for marvel?

00:17:54 Speaker 2

Yeah. Where that dude, you know, this is like all the stuff that was in current time they found in the future, like Captain America Shield and throw his hammer or whatever. And they just.

00:17:59

Right.

00:18:02 Speaker 2

Kind of pulled it all.

Yeah. Which was kind of like Wolverine meets Batman.

00:18:08 Speaker 2

And with some other nuance, right.

00:18:08 Speaker 3

Right.

00:18:12 Speaker 1

I probably have a copy somewhere.

00:18:14 Speaker 2

Yeah, I think I did as well. I was just like, well, I had it signed. So I bought a I think.

00:18:19 Speaker 2

I bought a copy.

00:18:21 Speaker 2

For the express purpose of getting it signed and never read it, and honestly, I don't think ever.

00:18:25 Speaker 2

Put through.

00:18:26 Speaker 2

It. Yeah, I think it's just like I I.

00:18:28 Speaker 2

These people are.

00:18:29 Speaker 2

Going to be there if I want to wait.

00:18:30 Speaker 2

In line might as well have that one signed as well.

00:18:33 Speaker 2

But yeah, I think that was like life. It was doing like a 24 hour signing session. There's like cause I was like young blood number one had.

00:18:41 Speaker 2

Just come out.

00:18:42 Speaker 2

And it was going to be like the there was like the gimmick or the, you know, the hook was that he was going to be there for 24 hours straight signing. And then he had given out like.

00:18:52 Speaker 2

Certificates of authenticity.

00:18:55 Speaker 3

That might.

00:18:55 Speaker 2

To everybody who signed, yeah, signed their issue.

00:18:58 Speaker 1

Yeah. Where are we going to get, like, in the middle of the night? We were going to go back and talk to him or something, but.

00:19:02 Speaker 2

Something like that.

00:19:03 Speaker 1

I don't remember if we ever did. Yeah.

00:19:05 Speaker 3

Was that like 93 or 90?

Was it was 93 and 93 somewhere around there. I can't remember.

00:19:11 Speaker 2

Cause all kind of you know you.

00:19:14 Speaker 2

Get older with memory.

00:19:15 Speaker 2

Starts to fade. You get little Walker.

00:19:18 Speaker 1

Matt just turned 50, so he's the young one.

00:19:21 Speaker 1

Yeah, five days ago.

00:19:24 Speaker 2

That's right. Wow. Welcome to the good old Yeah Geriatrics Club.

00:19:29 Speaker 1

AARP is kind.

00:19:34 Speaker 3

I met McFarlane probably around the same time. It was right after spawn came out and it was one of those deals where you stand in line for like 2 hours and I remember I was behind this guy who had probably 50 comics. He wanted Todd McFarland to sign and the.

00:19:50 Speaker 3

The sign clearly said that you could only get one or two comics sign.

00:19:53 Speaker 3

And he said instead of just getting inside, he stood there and argued with Todd McFarlane for 10 minutes. And and you know, Todd Mcfarland's handlers were coming over. And they basically told them they hit the road, right. And then after he left, I was like the next one. And they're still like, Can you believe that guy and, you know, and I and I was joining in, I was like, I can't believe the guy was acting like that.

And and Todd reaches over and he grabs my hand and he looks at me. He's like, thank you. Thank you.

00:20:18 Speaker 3

And then they signed my comic and I immediately sold it for 20 bucks.

00:20:28 Speaker 2

It's out there somewhere. Somebody's got that.

00:20:30 Speaker 2

You going like I feel some sort of importance to this. It's not just that it's signed.

00:20:34 Speaker 2

But it's got something.

00:20:35 Speaker 2

More to it right the.

00:20:37 Speaker 3

Funny thing is, if someone offered me $20 to stand in the line for two hours, I would.

00:20:41 Speaker 3

Have said no.

00:20:42 Speaker 2

Yeah, that those that era, you know, the thought of because you thought you could make it. You thought you could get into the industry and there was always that like it's part of the American dream, you know, it was kind of like I could become the next great comic artist in the since it was.

00:20:59 Speaker 2

Such a boom and when all.

00:21:02 Speaker 2

How much people left?

00:21:04 Speaker 2

You were like, oh, so there was a couple things.

00:21:06 Speaker 2

That happened like it it caused a.

00:21:08 Speaker 2

Void. You know when.

00:21:09 Speaker 2

The all the image people left Marvel.

00:21:11 Speaker 2

Then it's like oh.

00:21:12 Speaker 2

Then that means that Marvel.

00:21:13 Speaker 2

'S looking for talented people to replace them, and then we looked at.

00:21:17 Speaker 2

Who replaced them?

00:21:18 Speaker 2

It's like I can draw better than that.

00:21:22 Speaker 2

You know, because there was some.

00:21:23 Speaker 2

Of that stuff was like.

Both of your art, you guys can draw better than that. I I could not. So I I had to wheel and deal as a writer to try and get my foot in. And of course. So that was really successful, as you can see, but it.

00:21:47 Speaker 2

Hey, let's do a podcast.

00:21:47

Was fun.

00:21:48 Speaker 1

Right. Yeah, it's fun doing, you know.

00:21:50

I was. I was going to.

00:21:51 Speaker 3

Say before we got on here, I was looking at this.

00:21:55 Speaker 3

Manila envelope of rejection letters from comic companies.

00:22:00 Speaker 3

And it was. And I remember, like maybe a year or so after I got them. Every time I look at it it, you know, I feel like a failure and but now I look at it and it makes me smile, you know, thinking about the stuff that I got into when I was younger and the people I met.

00:22:15 Speaker 3

And now that I think about it, I only got like one legit offer to draw comics, and it was from Ben Edlund and he offered.

00:22:27 Speaker 3

That I could draw like backup stories for.

00:22:30 Speaker 3

Tick comics because.

00:22:31 Speaker 3

He was looking to expand the Tick universe, but he basically said yeah, but you know, we can't really pay you. You can you can do it. You know, it's kind of like one of those deals. You can do it for exposure and stuff like that. And and I thought about it and I was like, I can't do it. You know, I've got.

00:22:48 Speaker 3

Flexibilities I got an apartment to pay for, but every once in a while I think of, you know, like what if I would have taken that road and you know, just sucked.

Year or two, but you know it.

00:22:57 Speaker 1

Sure. You're you're the intern.

00:22:59 Speaker 3

Was it was fun meeting him.

00:23:01 Speaker 3

And getting the offer.

00:23:03 Speaker 2

Yeah, there there's that level is now being like overly exploited, but it was that exposure you know like you can show somebody I did this comic and I worked on this comic and then I was involved with this comic, you know? And it's like, wow, you actually did legit professional work. OK, well, that gives you a lot more clout.

00:23:23 Speaker 2

But now it's like you can't get away with just saying I'm not going to pay you for a month's.

Matt, the nicest person you met while going to convention.

00:23:36 Speaker 3

That's a tough one.

00:23:38 Speaker 3

You mentioned that question earlier, so I was trying to jot down some.

00:23:41 Speaker 3

Nice people that I met.

00:23:43 Speaker 3

And I've got like a three-way tie between Stan Lee, Jim Steranko and Bob Boychik. It's hard to tell the Stan Lee get into Stan Lee without telling you the long story.

00:23:57 Speaker 3

And Sigma steranko.

00:23:58 Speaker 3

But Bob Wycheck was just genuinely a super nice guy, and I've met him like three times, and every time I've met him, he has no idea who I am. He doesn't Remember Me from the last time, but he'll spend like a really long time just talking to me and, you know, basically telling you how the sausage is made and and showing you all of his artwork and just to really.

00:24:19 Speaker 3

Really good down the earth kind of guy.

00:24:21 Speaker 1

OK. Yeah, I I.

00:24:22 Speaker 1

Remember you saying something about Stan Lee before too?

00:24:25 Speaker 3

I can tell the story if you'd like.

00:24:26

I go go ahead.

00:24:28 Speaker 1

We have a Stan Lee story too, but.

00:24:29 Speaker 1

It's not as interesting. Ohh OK.

00:24:33 Speaker 3

Well, probably back in like 1994 during the Philadelphia comic extravaganza Stan Lee was like the headliner, I believe. And my buddy Blair and I lived in Maryland and we were like, let's let's drive to Philly and we'll get some of our old comic books signed by Stan Lee.

00:24:53 Speaker 3

And I had a bunch of really early amazing Spiderman and he had like X-Men #1.

00:24:59 Speaker 3

And a couple of other things. So we were so excited and we drove all the way there and when we got in there, we realized that you had to pre purchase tickets to, you know, get Stanley's autograph. Yeah. And we had missed out on it. And we were like, really, really bummed out because that's the whole reason we were there. We were standing around sort of lamenting.

00:25:19 Speaker 3

Our mistakes and like we're not going to meet our hero and all this stuff and there was this lady that was kind of like side laying up to us and we turned around and she had sort of like a badge on. And she's like, what's the problem? So we said, well, we drove all the way here from Maryland. We don't.

00:25:34 Speaker 3

To meet Stan Lee and we were really excited to see him and turns out this woman named Jan was the manager of the whole Convention Center. So she's like before she told us that she's like, OK, guys, follow me. Here's the story. You guys are my nephews. You're only here for 30 minutes.

00:25:55 Speaker 3

And and you've got some comments you you want signed and you're gonna go back to.

00:25:59 Speaker 3

College. So. So we're like, OK.

00:26:03 Speaker 3

So we just started trailing behind her. And, you know, she's giving us more of our back story. She opens up the side door to the Convention Center. This, like, sort of nondescript.

00:26:12 Speaker 3

Non labeled door. We follow her down this long dark corridor at the at the end of it there's a room. It turns out it's the green room that Stan Lee is sitting in. So we walk into the door. It's just Stan. And maybe like a handler or two of his just mulling around, and Jan walks in and she's like.

00:26:32 Speaker 3

Dan, I want you to meet my nephews and he gets up and you know, he's like everything that you've.

00:26:37 Speaker 3

Never imagine Stan Lee to be, you know, he's like your fantasy grandpa. He he gets up and he's smiling and he's.

00:26:44 Speaker 3

Like hey boys.

00:26:45 Speaker 3

And. And he's like, what do you got there? So we pulled out our, you know, Spiderman and X-Men. And he's like, these are some great books boys. And he pulls out his sharpie and signs it. And we sit down and we're just chitchatting.

00:26:58 Speaker 3

Or, you know, like like 1012 minutes or so.

00:27:01 Speaker 3

And then we walk, we say goodbye. It's like great meeting him, shake his hand and stuff like that. We walk out and we just like we are walking on air. You know, it's like the best thing that ever happened. And we're filing past all these, you know, hundreds of people standing in line who were all scowling at is that we got to go in and meet Stan Lee. So we got sort of a one-on-one conversation with Stan.

00:27:22 Speaker 3

So that he was then that's the the best and biggest story I've got.

Who this Jan woman was so I could send.

00:27:30 Speaker 3

Her a thank.

00:27:31 Speaker 3

You note, right? Yeah.

00:27:34 Speaker 1

Mike, what's the who's the nicest person you met?

00:27:37 Speaker 2

That's a good.

00:27:38 Speaker 2

Question I I'm gonna pull the same trick. You know Matt did, and that's basically gonna pull out in.

00:27:43 Speaker 2

The three names? Paul Denny.

00:27:45 Speaker 2

Chip kid and Mike Allred and you know.

00:27:48 Speaker 2

They were all like.

00:27:49 Speaker 2

Amazing. Amazing. You know, to kind of just.

00:27:53 Speaker 2

When you were in an environment, I think the one of those three, I think Mike Allred was the nicest.

00:28:01 Speaker 2

And it was like.

00:28:02 Speaker 2

Mad Men had just hit like the the the mainstream interests because he already had, like, some of those, you know, I think it was like a tundra press had done like the first.

00:28:12 Speaker 2

Couple of his issues and it was before our kitchen sink press. I don't remember. It was tender or kitchen sink, but then it moved to Dark Horse, but it hadn't quite moved to Dark Horse yet. And so he wasn't a really well known person at that time. He had some like Mad Men, pins and stuff like that. And we got to talking and I showed him.

00:28:30 Speaker 2

My artwork and he's like, do you have these pages?

00:28:32 Speaker 2

Here, I said I've got them.

00:28:34 Speaker 2

Out in my car.

00:28:34 Speaker 2

I was like ohh I'd love.

00:28:35 Speaker 2

The ink these pages that I.

00:28:37 Speaker 2

Drawn. I'm going. You got to be kidding me. And this is like him voluntarily. Because it was a doctor fate story that that Andy had written. And I had done the illustration for it. And he's like, oh, this is great. I'd love to have inked it. And it's like, ohh. Like crap. I could have had, like original one-of-a-kind inked by Michael Red.

00:28:57 Speaker 2

And he could have erased.

00:28:59 Speaker 2

Everything I had done and I would have been.

00:29:00 Speaker 2

Just as happy.

00:29:03 Speaker 2

Right. That was really, really.

00:29:05 Speaker 2

Cool. And he just chatted and it was talking comics and how much he just enjoys, you know.

00:29:10 Speaker 2

Getting out there, meeting fans and everything, so it was just it was that level and I don't know if he's that way now. I don't see why he wouldn't be. But you know, it was just that kind of like that enthusiasm and that excitement about being in the.

00:29:21 Speaker 1

Industry. Yeah. Where was that at?

00:29:23 Speaker 2

That I think it was a Chicago con.

00:29:26 Speaker 2

I think there's a Blizzard world I.

00:29:28 Speaker 2

Think is what it was called at that time.

00:29:29 Speaker 2

Thing was like the one of the last wizard worlds I went.

00:29:33 Speaker 3

Mad Men was so cool. I remember when he went to Dark Horse and they had remember they would give out those 3 little newspapers with like Mad Men Comics in them and like concrete and stuff. Yeah, I don't know if you remember those. Those are so cool. I used to have a big stack of those, you know, like Paul Chadwicks concrete.

00:29:52 Speaker 3

Stuff like that.

00:29:53 Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, that was that was a.

00:29:56 Speaker 2

Booming time for Dark Horse because I mean.

00:29:58 Speaker 2

They they you.

00:29:59 Speaker 2

Know since Sydney was coming out shortly after that.

00:30:02

Oh yeah.

00:30:03 Speaker 2

Hellboy and that whole like the line, because like art.

00:30:06 Speaker 2

Adams was supposed.

00:30:07 Speaker 2

To do that, monkey man and O'Brien.

00:30:10 Speaker 2

There was Paul Chadwicks concrete, Jeff Darrow.

00:30:14 Speaker 2

I was doing some stuff I believe.

00:30:17 Speaker 2

Was rusty the boy robot big?

00:30:19 Speaker 2

Guy and Rusty was that around that same era?

00:30:23 Speaker 1

John Byrne had next man.

00:30:25 Speaker 2

Ohh yeah, so I mean the Dark Horse was like top of the game. Now it's like dark. What? Yeah.

00:30:31 Speaker 3

I know it used to be so cool.

00:30:32 Speaker 2

They got they.

00:30:32 Speaker 2

Got some things. Yeah. You know, because they.

00:30:34 Speaker 1

It kind of went the way of Vertigo for DC, you know, kind of just faded.

00:30:38 Speaker 1

Away because I.

00:30:39 Speaker 2

Mean they lost? You know, they got heavy, heavy into licenses. I mean, they had the Star Wars license, the Conan license.

00:30:44 Speaker 2

The aliens and predator and you know all sorts of stuff. And they were doing great with those, but at the same point, it's like, well, you guys are heavy.

00:30:52 Speaker 2

Into these licenses? Yeah, and the mask.

00:30:54 Speaker 2

Was around that time too, I think.

00:30:56 Speaker 2

So, like Dark Horse was like unstoppable for.

Know gone are the days of barbed wire.

For me, probably the nicest person kind of similar to how you guys were talking about trying to get your portfolio in there at 1 convention as a Detroit convention. And I I got to to sit with Mike Baron who did.

00:31:16 Speaker 1

Like the Badger and Nexus, he did a flash run for DC. I got sat sit with him and he was just the nicest guy and he was running a writers class at the time too. So I get to sit in with that and he just would talk.

00:31:29 Speaker 1

Me about writing and he looked at a a Nexus script that I had done because I knew I was going to meet him for that. So I had I of course tried to prepare something that he would like. He he he looked at that with me. We actually emailed back and forth afterwards for a little bit. He's just a really nice guy, was very helpful. He liked my stuff. Or he told me he liked my stuff, you know.

00:31:49 Speaker 1

So it's if he was just being polite, he was very polite, it was just a really interesting guy, you know, I got I I ate a a piece of pizza with him, you know. You know, just kind of sat around. And he just told me how, you know.

00:31:59 Speaker 1

He broke in and stuff like that. Nice.

00:32:02 Speaker 3

OK.

00:32:03 Speaker 2

Yeah, it's got to be hard. I mean, like with the comics being obviously a pictures worth 1000 words, the art is so much easier to assess on the spot. It's like, hey, I got this guy, he's got 3 elbows on this guy on this drawing in order to make this pose work or the proverbial Rob Liefeld chest thrust out. Captain America.

00:32:23 Speaker 2

Where it's like ohh the anatomy is way wrong but.

00:32:26 Speaker 2

It was like.

00:32:27 Speaker 2

You can spot that pretty quickly, you know, but it's like, how does a convention work for a writer?

00:32:33 Speaker 1

Yeah, I intentionally, I constantly, you know, work was told to just submit something and they'd have a chance to look at it at some point in the future. You know, whether they did or not, I don't know. But, you know, I would just drop off envelopes at at DC's table or Marvel's table or whatever.

00:32:33

You know, because like.

00:32:49 Speaker 1

You know and then not hear back because I did. I did get some rejection letters. So I, you know, I I have that folder too Matt. But it was just looking back like I said before, it was a fun time to just to try it, but there wasn't a lot of critiquing on the spot kind of thing. You know what what are they?

00:33:06 Speaker 1

Gonna say or you spelled that wrong or you know.

00:33:09 Speaker 1

Yeah, this sentence doesn't make sense.

00:33:11 Speaker 2

Yeah, I will say though that DC probably had the nicest rejection letters because I think it was just because of the stationary that they're using. Yeah, they had the big, you know, the the salt bass DC logo at the top.

The back of the paper.

00:33:27 Speaker 2

Was all those superheroes standing on the shoulders of the other superheroes?

00:33:31 Speaker 2

And then the last superhero at the top was holding the DC emblem. So like.

00:33:36 Speaker 2

If you just.

00:33:36 Speaker 2

Flip it over. You'd see all these superheroes standing on top of each other. But if you flip the paper onto the front, you saw the DC logo.

00:33:42 Speaker 2

But if you.

00:33:43 Speaker 2

Held it up to the light. You sell the.

00:33:45 Speaker 2

All those superheroes standing on top of each other.

00:33:47 Speaker 2

Folders in a vertical column and then holding that DC logo through the other side of the paper. And I was like that was.

Like, yeah, you can turn.

00:33:57 Speaker 2

Me down if this.

00:33:58 Speaker 2

Is what I'm getting like I'll. I'll take that.

00:34:02 Speaker 3

Right. The the worst rejection letter was probably from Malibu Comics, and it was just like they had like 3 choices they could check off, you know, like, like we really like your stuff.

00:34:13 Speaker 2

Ohh, foreign matter.

00:34:16 Speaker 3

Yeah. Then there was like, we don't like your stuff and you know, and another thing. And so they basically just checked it off and stuck it in it and envelope and mailed it to.

00:34:25 Speaker 3

Me so.

00:34:26 Speaker 3

It wasn't even worth looking at, but the Marvel one was cool because it had Spidey up at the top and him swinging in. This is like loser talk, you know?

00:34:31

You know.

00:34:36 Speaker 3

We're trying to kick the best little parts out.

00:34:37 Speaker 1

Well, yeah, yeah, it sucks.

00:34:38 Speaker 3

Of rejection and sadness.

00:34:43 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

00:34:46 Speaker 1

You should have been in the.

00:34:47 Speaker 1

Last episode where we were grumpy old men.

00:34:49 Speaker 1

Just ripping apart, coming through the street.

00:34:50 Speaker 3

Ohh good I could get it that one.

00:34:53 Speaker 3

Uh-huh. Ohh, did I ever tell you that? Andy? Did I ever tell you the story about David Nicolini? OK, so when when I was about 19 years old, I lived in Newark DE and I worked in a post office for, like, a summer. I was like a summer, you know, like, scab that I guess they were having some sort of a strike or something with the Union.

00:35:14 Speaker 3

So they hired a bunch of college.

00:35:16 Speaker 3

So anyway, while I was sort of millionaire, I saw David Michelina's name and I was like, I wonder if this is the same guy. So every day I'd keep an eye on his mailbox, which is probably pretty stalkerish, and I noticed that he was getting packages from Marvel Comics. I wrote a little letter to him and I slipped it in his post office box.

00:35:36 Speaker 3

And ask him if he had any advice for, you know, a young guy who's thinking about getting into comic.

00:35:42 Speaker 3

So I sort of forgot about it and then he wrote me. He wrote me a three page letter back. I'll typed out, you know, like on computer paper. Back then it was just really nice advice, if you know, like how to submit stuff and you know, don't get your hopes up because they've got literally like piles and piles of stuff that they have.

00:35:58 Speaker 3

To get through.

00:35:59 Speaker 3

And could be a year or two.

00:36:01 Speaker 3

Anyway, about two years ago I went to the Baltimore Comic Comic Con and he was there and there was like a an hour and a half, two hour line to meet him. So I had some comics I wanted him to sign, and when I got up to.

00:36:13 Speaker 3

Two umm, I said hey, I don't know if you remember this, but you know, back in the early 90s, maybe 1990 or 91, I slipped a letter into your post office box and he totally remembered, at least he told me he.

00:36:25 Speaker 3

Did he was like.

00:36:26 Speaker 3

Yeah, I remember that. So we had like.

00:36:29 Speaker 3

A fun little reunion for a little bit there, but anyway, really super nice guy.

00:36:31 Speaker 1

Sure, that's right.

00:36:33 Speaker 1

That's pretty cool. OK, let's do the opposite. Now we have the nicest person you met.

00:36:38 Speaker 1

How about the rudest or the biggest disappointment?

00:36:42 Speaker 2

Yeah, I got one now this. I don't know what was happening, so I'm going to give him a little bit of a benefit of the doubt on this one just because like there might have been a medical issue, especially knowing how he is at the moment. But at the launch of dark horses legend in print, they had a massive signing.

00:37:01 Speaker 2

At Chicago, and it was like and it like. And we had Art Adams. You had Jeff Darrow, you had Flake Miller. You had Mike Mignola. You had, I think there was somebody Mike, alright, I think might have been even in. I think he was.

00:37:17 Speaker 2

In on that lineup.

00:37:19 Speaker 2

And I was like this is.

00:37:19 Speaker 2

Ridiculous. This is like the creme de.

00:37:21 Speaker 2

La creme of you know, comic.

Yeah. Yeah. And it was just this line that went on forever. And I just remember going like the hedge maze in the shining of a hallway. It just it it serpentined.

00:37:38 Speaker 2

All over and finally. Ohh it's gotta be around.

00:37:40 Speaker 2

This corner we can finally see.

00:37:41 Speaker 2

Room. Oh crap. It's the line continues, I think. And he may have actually walked out.

00:37:47 Speaker 2

Of the line walked down. It's like, yeah.

00:37:49 Speaker 2

We're not even.

00:37:49 Speaker 2

Close to the door when he came back.

00:37:50 Speaker 1

Yeah, I do remember that.

00:37:52 Speaker 2

And I was like, holy crap.

00:37:53 Speaker 2

This is taking a long time. Well, then we finally are getting into the room and we're just about to enter the room we're in like the hallway about, like 10 people back from being able to enter this ballroom.

00:38:03 Speaker 2

And all of a sudden, it's like there's a.

00:38:05 Speaker 2

Commotion going on in the room and he's like.

00:38:09 Speaker 2

What's going on? You know, there's, like, people are just, like, frantic. And it's like when this lady comes, we're almost running out of the room. It's like Frank Miller is leaving. Frank Miller is leaving. If you want anything signed by Frank Miller, have it ready and have it to the page right now. He just got up. And apparently he said enough's enough or whatever. Maybe there was a medical reason.

00:38:29 Speaker 2

But he just.

00:38:29 Speaker 2

Got up in the middle of the signing.

00:38:31 Speaker 2

That everybody's waiting.

00:38:32 Speaker 2

For and just walked out, and sure enough, there is like panic because you think, oh crap, I got to find something from the sign and he just came by and just and walked on and it was just kind of like, do you remember the fifth element movie where Ruby Rod just basically grabs that like that paintbrush almost like thing and just walks by and signs.

00:38:53 Speaker 2

All those fans you know?

00:38:56 Speaker 2

With just a dripping paint kind of a deal, it's like that's his signature kind of a deal. That's what it was basically like, he just walked and we were like I said, like we were about 10 people out if that. And we're among the last to of him to sign. And then he just kind of like, went to the other side of the hallway and just vanished. And as quickly as he could.

Yeah, he kind of ignored the rest of us or the rest of the people after like, 6-6 after us. And he just walked out and was like he had enough. And we were lucky to even get the thing.

Yeah. I mean it's like I can understand, if it's like, hey, if you got to be somewhere at a certain time or but then it's like, but everybody else is still there. I mean like all the other big wigs were still able to hold out and do it. He just was like, enough is enough. I don't know if.

00:39:40 Speaker 2

It was like somebody said.

00:39:41 Speaker 2

Something or the body odor was just enough to.

00:39:44 Speaker 2

Kind of tease him. I was like, dude.

00:39:45 Speaker 2

Can't deal with this anymore.

00:39:47 Speaker 2

Or whatever it was. But and like I said.

00:39:49 Speaker 2

I gotta give the benefit of the doubt, especially seeing this state right now. It's like, oh, maybe there was something.

00:39:56 Speaker 2

But I just at that time I was like, this is unbelievable. Just kind of like walk out on the fans. Ohh, I will say there's one other one crap and I'll I'll. I'll come back to it if you guys have time.

00:40:09 Speaker 1

Is that I don't have one.

00:40:11

But go ahead.

00:40:11 Speaker 2

OK. Well, you remember this while they start talking about it. So this is we were at a Chicago Convention and I remember we were walking around and.

00:40:23 Speaker 2

Steve Rude was right next to John Byrne and the artist. It wasn't like artist Alley at all. It was just kind of like they had people just.

00:40:32 Speaker 2

Kind of scattered.

00:40:33 Speaker 2

And I remembered, you know, it's a young Burne is away from the the table at the moment. He'll be back at a certain time or something like that. Or just. Oh, no, it just said John Byrne. And that was.

00:40:44 Speaker 2

This was his table space and right next to him was Steve Rude, and it's just empty. He wasn't there at the table, which is fine. I mean, use the restroom grabs him to eat, just walk around or whatever. Do whatever you need to do. You don't. That wasn't it doesn't the time. But then we were, you know, on line for Steve Rude, got his stuff signed and we saw that. It said John Burns. Like, huh, should we?

00:41:03 Speaker 2

Just hang out here for a little bit.

00:41:05 Speaker 2

See if he shows up. It's like, yeah, we can give him like 5 minutes, you know, and then we can go on. And so we waited 5 minutes and sure enough, the dude shows.

00:41:11 Speaker 2

Up and he sits down at the table. We're like, oh.

00:41:14 Speaker 2

And we're kind of like.

00:41:15 Speaker 2

Grabbing stuff out of backpacks and.

00:41:17 Speaker 2

Getting ready to, you know, OK, he's going to sign this for one for me.

00:41:20 Speaker 2

Or this or.

00:41:20 Speaker 2

This or whatever, and then he's writing on a piece of note, and then he folds this piece of paper in.

00:41:26 Speaker 2

Half makes a little table tent out of it.

00:41:28 Speaker 2

And just like.

00:41:29 Speaker 2

John Byrne is not here. He sits down a stack of magazines.

00:41:34 Speaker 2

On top of the table and starts flipping through.

00:41:37 Speaker 2

Them and it was like.

00:41:38 Speaker 2

A crap ton of Playboy magazines.

00:41:40 Speaker 2

And he's just flipping through Playboy.

00:41:42 Speaker 2

Magazines his feet are propped up on the table. Andy and I were like, do we wait to see if he takes that sign down? But in the mean?

00:41:51 Speaker 2

Time this is a little creepy watching this old man, you know, kind of just like, you know, flipping through **** magazines right in front of us. I'm like, going, there's kids around and stuff like that. It's like, dude.

00:42:03 Speaker 1

Yeah, I remember here.

00:42:04

Maybe they do things.

00:42:05 Speaker 2

Differently in Canada, but that was that was weird.

00:42:08 Speaker 1

I remember him telling someone that he collected them. So I mean, it was part of his new collection.

00:42:15 Speaker 3

It's like Al Bundy, right? Yeah. He's such a douche, though. You know, I think he's softened a little as he's gotten older, but there was a period of time when he was a real jerk.

00:42:20 Speaker 1

Great he is.

00:42:25

And he's getting less work.

00:42:27 Speaker 2

Well, he's getting less work.

00:42:30 Speaker 2

You know, it's kind of the, you know, I've not watched the documentary in Amazon yet, but it's kind of the Val Kilmer thing where it's like your own worst enemy. It's like, you know, you're you're hard to work with. People don't like working with you. He goes getting in the way and then now that gated everybody. And they don't want to work with.

00:42:45 Speaker 2

You and now you're like ohh.

00:42:46 Speaker 2

All those views are doing that now pin.

00:42:49 Speaker 2

Myself into a corner and I can't get out.

00:42:51 Speaker 2

So now would be nicer to people.

00:42:52 Speaker 1

How about you, Matt, I?

00:42:54 Speaker 3

Ohh can I can I tag on to?

00:42:57 Speaker 3

To John Verne.

00:42:59 Speaker 3

And and then I've got another one.

00:43:01 Speaker 3

Well, John Byrne, I wrote a letter to the letters column in next men, and I forget what issue it was, but when he got it, he printed it because I've learned that if you, if you argue with the editors or the writers, they'll print it because they they wanna, they want to get their two cents in.

00:43:17 Speaker 3

Right, But when he edited my letter, he changed it all around to where it was sort of unintelligible and and made me sound.

00:43:27 Speaker 3

It and then answered it as if I was an idiot and and then that was. That was the last next man I ever read. That was just like, what a douche. Yeah, so.

That doesn't surprise me.

00:43:40 Speaker 3

He's a jerk.

00:43:40 Speaker 3

Probably I haven't had a lot of people that.

00:43:43 Speaker 3

Were really rude to me.

00:43:45 Speaker 3

But like I remember, I met Neil Adams.

00:43:48 Speaker 1

Ohh here we go.

00:43:48 Speaker 3

And yeah, I just felt like when I walked up to him that there was no one at his table. And I think that.

00:43:53 Speaker 3

Because, you know, he was charging so much for his signatures and you know, and he he expected you to buy something if you walked up. I had, like, an old Green Lantern comic that I wanted him to sign. And I was the only one there. And he looked just kind of like, angry. He was just, like, angry that I was even there. And, you know, he talked to me for a second, but he just seemed annoyed.

00:44:13 Speaker 3

And he wanted me to go away.

00:44:15 Speaker 3

So and it made me feel.

00:44:17 Speaker 3

Even worse about giving him $50.00 to.

00:44:19 Speaker 3

Scribble his name on.

00:44:20 Speaker 3

A comic? You know what I mean?

00:44:21 Speaker 1

Wow, that's crazy. Yeah.

00:44:22 Speaker 2

He he invented that. He was the first artist. And there's some, you know, rationale behind it. But here's the first artist to charge for.

00:44:32 Speaker 2

Years because he, you know, he was like, hey, you got either one, flip it. You know, as soon as you signed it, you know, get that spawn that you signed and get 20.

00:44:40 Speaker 2

Bucks from it. But or it's like.

00:44:42 Speaker 3

Exactly. That's my first flip.

00:44:44 Speaker 2

You know, put this thing. Yeah, so.

00:44:46 Speaker 2

But he's like, you know, I'm going to.

00:44:47 Speaker 2

Get a little.

00:44:48 Speaker 2

Bit of that action too.

00:44:49 Speaker 2

It's like, yeah, but then again, it's like you gotta remember, these are fans. These are people who waited in line. They've already given you money in the form of waiting hours in line for you to sign something. Right. You know, it's like if time equals money, then that's.

00:45:05 Speaker 2

You already got your.

00:45:07 Speaker 3

I love the guys that will take money, but they'll donate it to like heroes initiative, you know, so at least you feel like something good is happening with your.

00:45:16 Speaker 3

Cash, right? Yeah.

00:45:18 Speaker 2

Yeah, I got suckered by Joe Stanton.

00:45:21 Speaker 2

Think into doing.

00:45:22 Speaker 2

That it's like he did like.

00:45:24 Speaker 2

E man and he did Green Lantern art for quite a long while, and it's like holy crap, that's Joe Stanton.

Had like something to have him signed and this other guy I was working with now this is a a business trip. So it was kind of like we're trying to talk to people and like, hey, what about this and getting a license and so forth. And he was, he's like, going well, you know, it's like, hey, I wouldn't mind signing that for you. It's like, OK, yeah, it's going to be 5.

00:45:48 Speaker 2

Dollars or something like that. It's like what? What?

00:45:50 Speaker 2

You know, it wasn't clearly advertised. It's like, well, I'm giving it to this cause and it's like, that's good. But at the same point, I wasn't expecting to pay either.

00:45:59 Speaker 1

Right.

00:46:00 Speaker 2

Yeah, it's kind of like, yeah. Can you give me a receipt so I can write this off?

00:46:03 Speaker 2

Of my taxes then or something.

00:46:05 Speaker 1

Those you know, I I don't have a rude person story, but I and my my biggest disappointment story is kind of not towards any pretty anybody I met. It was more towards me. Now I I I don't shy.

00:46:20 Speaker 1

Don't shy away from saying that I I love George Perez and I want him to have my babies. You.

00:46:26 Speaker 1

Know I don't I.

00:46:27 Speaker 1

Away from that at all. So.

00:46:29 Speaker 1

After waiting in line to meet George Perez, Mr. Perez.

00:46:34 Speaker 1

You know, I was so disappointed in myself because I had nothing to say to him when I when I went up there, I was, like, totally in shock from, you know, this is a guy that, you know, did new teen Titans and Christmas and all my favorite books. And here I am with, you know, like 5 comics for him to sign. And first of all.

00:46:54 Speaker 1

He had a really high pitched voice.

00:46:56 Speaker 1

That Mike and I wrote, that is, it sounded like Mickey Mouse. And that's, I mean that it's.

00:47:01

Hello how are you doing? And.

00:47:04 Speaker 3

And maybe it.

00:47:05 Speaker 1

Maybe it was the shock of that or something, but you know, great and then.

00:47:08 Speaker 3

Just threw you.

00:47:10 Speaker 1

I was like, I like your work or you.

To get something out of my mouth.

00:47:16 Speaker 1

And it's just like.

00:47:16 Speaker 3

Drawings. Pretty yeah.

00:47:17 Speaker 1

Right. You do good work and just.

00:47:20 Speaker 2

I want an official red, red and white rifle began.

00:47:23 Speaker 1

Right, yeah.

00:47:25 Speaker 1

And I'm just so disappointed in myself. I've I met him a couple of times and each time it's like I got nothing. You know, it's I can't. Words will not come out of my mouth to say how much I love you and you know, it's just that's probably my biggest disappointment.

00:47:42 Speaker 1

Those some pretty good stories. Is there any stories, Matt, that you are dying to tell other than the Stan Lee one? Ohh, we didn't tell our Stan Lee one Mike, do you?

00:47:51 Speaker 1

Remember our Stanley story?

00:47:52 Speaker 2

I remember it, but I.

00:47:53 Speaker 2

Don't know if I remember it.

00:47:55 Speaker 2

Accurately, I mean, there's been a lot.

00:47:57 Speaker 2

Of embellishment and like fantasy, that's kind.

00:48:00 Speaker 2

I mean like I won't.

00:48:01 Speaker 2

Talk about the unicorns I.

00:48:02 Speaker 2

Remember seeing at the same time when I saw Stan Lee or.

00:48:04 Speaker 1

Right. Yeah, the only.

00:48:05 Speaker 2

Anything like that?

00:48:05 Speaker 2

So I'll try to pull some of that back.

00:48:08 Speaker 1

The only time that I saw Stan Lee was at the C2E2, I think. Oh no, it was probably was their world.

00:48:15 Speaker 2

It was. It was. Yeah. I think actually, before that cause it was a. It wasn't at the Rosemont Convention Center. I don't think. I think it was at. It was like at a different hotel.

00:48:24 Speaker 1

And we had not seen him during the Convention, but he sat next to us while we were having lunch at one of the hotel restaurants, and we were like kind of whispering. And should we go over there and talk to him?

00:48:38 Speaker 1

Or anything like.

00:48:38 Speaker 1

That, and we of course, ended up not doing it because we're both introverts and.

00:48:43 Speaker 1

You know, we both are incredibly shy, at least at the time. I certainly was. I probably would, would today that was my only encounter with Stan Lee was.

00:48:52 Speaker 1

Like that's Stan Lee over.

00:48:55 Speaker 1

And you could you couldn't mistake him for somebody else because of his voice, and he was talking. He was talking to other people. I'm not sure why I thought ohh. He's not. He's gonna reject us. That was my only encounter with Stan Lee. Was I was. I was breathing the same.

00:49:09 Speaker 1

There is him.

00:49:11 Speaker 2

Yeah, he was. I remember some of the conversation to a degree. You know, he's like you boys like comics. You know, as he was sitting and talking. And I just remember him because at the time he had just kind of quote UN quote returned to writing comics he was doing, I think, ravaged 2099 and.

00:49:30 Speaker 2

As part of that, like you know, Spiderman 2099 punching 29, doom 29, they had that whole 29 nine offshoot and he was doing I think it was either ravaged rampage, something like that I can remember.

00:49:40 Speaker 2

The name of.

00:49:41 Speaker 2

That series, but he was.

00:49:43 Speaker 2

Kind of Hawking that book at that.

00:49:45 Speaker 2

Time and I remember.

00:49:47 Speaker 2

One of the lines that was said is like make certain you read the 20 or like 209 nine series.

00:49:53 Speaker 2

Or something like that was.

00:49:54 Speaker 1

Like 2099, you know, that's like.

It's like it's not a zip code.

00:50:02 Speaker 2

Stand. It's supposed to be a year.

00:50:03 Speaker 3

Did he say? Did he say niner?

00:50:07 Speaker 2

99 yeah.

00:50:08 Speaker 2

29 niner but it's just ohh my gosh, it was so great because it.

00:50:13 Speaker 2

Was just like.

00:50:13 Speaker 3

He probably would have loved to talk to you.

00:50:15 Speaker 2

Great. Ohh yeah, yeah, it was just one of those things. Where?

00:50:18 Speaker 2

It's like, you know, you just are.

00:50:20 Speaker 2

Well, we're as close as we can get to royalty in the comic book industry right at this moment. So let's just enjoy and bask in it. And it's like it's one of those things where it's like, hey, a butterfly just landed on my finger. If I move at all, if I breathe the wrong way, it's gonna fly away. So let's just stay absolutely motionless and just enjoy.

00:50:40 Speaker 2

Being having this butterfly of Stan Lee on her finger kind of a thing.

00:50:44 Speaker 1

And I think some of it was he was eating lunch. We were eating.

00:50:47 Speaker 1

Lunch and he didn't seem bothered by other people coming up to him. But I I almost felt like, oh, he doesn't need more people to come up and talk to him while he's eating lunch. You know, like, I don't want to bother him, let him enjoy his food kind of thing.

00:50:58 Speaker 2

Yeah. Well, and it made it worse was the fact that this wasn't the eatery that was associated with the Convention Center it.

00:51:07 Speaker 2

Was like 2 hotels.

00:51:08 Speaker 2

Away, you know, he was either one trying to escape from the fans and get into like a, you know, I can eat in peace here.

00:51:16 Speaker 2

Or something. But he was, you know, clearly like I, I need to separate myself from the Convention at least a little bit. So it's not going to be inundated with fans. I can at least take one bite without him being to tell some story about the 19.

00:51:31 Speaker 2

60S or the?

00:51:31 Speaker 2

Marvel bullpen or say, Excelsior or one more time.

00:51:35

OK.

00:51:36 Speaker 1

A lot. Let me ask this question. Person you still have yet to meet and want to anybody out there, Matt, that you just are dying to get a signature from or or a chat with.

Dang it, that was mine.

00:51:53 Speaker 3

Oh yeah, no.

00:51:54 Speaker 3

Kidding. Yeah. Yeah, he's. He's like, probably my favorite writer now. And, you know, I mean, I've got some autographs from him because, you know, I buy buy all.

00:52:04 Speaker 3

The criminal stuff.

00:52:05 Speaker 3

And and his new Heartbound books always have, like, like the little book plates that are signed on the inside. But I'd.

00:52:11 Speaker 3

Love to meet.

00:52:11 Speaker 3

Them and and I've listened to a lot of.

00:52:14 Speaker 3

Podcast with him in it and you know he's not anything like you'd think he.

00:52:19 Speaker 3

He's, like, way nerdier. He's not as cool.

00:52:21 Speaker 3

As you think he would be.

00:52:22 Speaker 2

Yeah, he knows how to write cool characters, but yeah, he's not. I guess. Yeah. He was on an army brat or something like that. Or Navy. One of the two. Something like that where he just kind of got hauled around from place to place. So that's why he's like, so well-rounded as far as knowledge of different areas and just life.

00:52:40 Speaker 2

Various, you know, parts of the world well done, though. Really amazing stuff, especially. Yeah. Any of his collaborations with Sean Phillips? Ohh.

00:52:47 Speaker 3

Oh yeah.

00:52:48 Speaker 2

Those are must haves. And Speaking of, I mean like the what's most appropriate would be a highly recommend a comic for.

00:52:56 Speaker 2

For people who might like this podcast.

00:52:58 Speaker 2

And talk about grumpy.

00:52:59 Speaker 2

Old men and comics bad weekend was that's a perfect comic book comic book convention story and I don't know how much of it's based on truth and some of the, you know, like it's loosely allegory to some famous.

00:53:02 Speaker 3

Oh, that's so good.

00:53:16 Speaker 2

I'm like artist of your I won't throw a name out there, but.

00:53:20 Speaker 2

Because I highly respect that particular cantankerous old man, that it may be based on, but it's still amazing, amazing book.

00:53:27 Speaker 1

I have to.

00:53:28 Speaker 3

Look at that one. Have you read Howard Jenkins? Hey, kids comics.

00:53:33 Speaker 2

No, no.

00:53:34 Speaker 3

It's it's basically the same sort of thing. It's like these thinly veiled characters representing, you know, basically older comic creators that got screwed in the in the annals of Co.

00:53:46 Speaker 3

Like history, but it's probably a little bit more depressing than bad weekend because it's so on the nose and but. But if you like, then if you like to know how the sausage is made and stuff and what really happened, according to Howard Chaykin, that's kind of a good read.

00:54:04 Speaker 2

Well, I mean that dudes been around.

00:54:05 Speaker 2

For ages and it's right at that kind of turning point.

00:54:09 Speaker 2

With, you know, the the comic industry as a whole going from like, you know, the Golden Age people were getting completely booted out because of the demanding of like, retirement money and wanting healthcare. Outrageous claims that they wanted request from the businesses that they brought.

00:54:29 Speaker 2

Millions upon billions of dollars to just offer some of that benefits. There's a there's an underbelly.

00:54:37 Speaker 2

Of the comic world that is just like unfortunate to think of.

00:54:40 Speaker 2

About, you know, it's like especially like, you know, you think about like Bill Finger and all the other people that.

00:54:45 Speaker 2

You know ghost.

00:54:46 Speaker 2

Writers, ghosts, artists, Ghost creators that never got their new I still think that DC's hosed them over.

00:54:52 Speaker 2

With, at least with.

00:54:54 Speaker 2

Superman. It's seagull and Houston or whatever. But Batman is Bob Kane.

00:55:00 Speaker 2

With Bill Finger and it's like, wait.

00:55:03 Speaker 2

A minute. The semantics are way off on that.

00:55:06 Speaker 2

You know, cause the end has an equal collaboration with is like Bob King did all the heavy lifting and bill finger just said like ohh here's an idea. It's like no don't finger creating Bob King just had a better lawyer.

00:55:20 Speaker 3

Exactly to tag on to that story, can I do an honorable mention? Jim Steranko the first time I met him, I asked him about his famous story about him slapping Bob Kane. Did you ever hear that story?

00:55:34 Speaker 2

No, no, this sounds amazing.

00:55:36 Speaker 3

Though it is amazing, I read about it in some obscure article.

00:55:41 Speaker 3

So when when I mentioned it to him, he got sort of a twinkle in his eye and he told me he's like if I'm only known for one thing and that's and he, quote UN quote ***** slapping Bob Kane, I'm happy with that. Apparently what happened was that it was the first time that he'd ever got to meet Bob Kane. And it was like, sort of at a convention.

00:56:01 Speaker 3

In a fancy hotel or something.

00:56:03 Speaker 3

So Bob Kane walks up and Jim Stranka said that he was sort of acting like he was kind of like a mob boss and going around and like, you know, like whacking people on the back and, hey, how you doing, buddy? And he's. And he saw Jim Steranko, and he smacked him on the face. And he was like, you know, like, like, hey and cupped him on the face, like, hey, buddy, and slapped him real hard. And it really ******.

00:56:22

Ohh my gosh.

00:56:23 Speaker 3

Jim's drinking, you know, Jim Steranko's got a chip on his.

00:56:25 Speaker 3

Shoulder bigger than he is and he said.

00:56:28 Speaker 3

It shocked him.

00:56:30 Speaker 3

So he said he was going to get him back. So he basically followed him.

00:56:34 Speaker 3

Up another floor, and when the elevator door opened, he just, like hauled off and smacked Bob Kane in the face and stood there because he thought that Bob Kane was going to hit him back or something. And he said he he didn't do anything. So then Jim Stranger said he just got bored and walked away. That's brilliant.

00:56:54 Speaker 1

Ohh man, that's brilliant. I love strengthening.

00:56:56 Speaker 3

So that's the first time I met Sirenko. Yeah, he's he was awesome. If he's not like flirting with your wife.

00:57:01 Speaker 3

Over to, you know, telling you how to extend your life by 25% by, you know, only sleeping 3 hours a night.

He he's got nothing but great stories.

00:57:12 Speaker 3

Yeah, he's awesome though. He's like my second favorite comic celebrity behind Stan that I've met. Yeah.

00:57:18 Speaker 2

And he's one.

00:57:19 Speaker 2

Of those, that's like he said, you know, there's.

00:57:21 Speaker 2

A difference between Neil.

00:57:22 Speaker 2

Adams and Stranka and they both had huge impact on the comic industry, but.

00:57:28 Speaker 2

But Neil Adams, there's an ego to it. Whereas Taranco is like dude, this is just fun, man. We're making silly stories about spandex wearing people. How can you take it seriously?

00:57:41 Speaker 3

Yeah, I remember him. My wife was there with me and he was in the middle of a conversation with someone about these, like, beautiful, sexy ladies that he hired to post for.

00:57:50 Speaker 3

For his, for his comics. And he's like, not as beautiful as your wife here. He's like he still has it. He's like 81, still has it.

00:58:01 Speaker 1

Right.

00:58:02 Speaker 2

I mean, like, everything about him is just. Yeah, that dude, he he changed the comic industry and then he, you know, like where Neil Adams, you know, made like claims on a lot of stuff, you know, from the like, I created the direct market. I created the dollar comic, I created the, you know, those giant Dollar comics or whatever they're called like.

00:58:22 Speaker 2

$1.00 for a giant like 84 page giant, I think it's called or something like that. He single handedly claims he did that. He created the direct comic industry where or direct markets or direct market industry and it's like Holy No Neil Adams, but then you know, you know, it's almost one of those things where it's like I can claim to be that.

00:58:37 Speaker 1

OK.

00:58:42 Speaker 2

Storm Trooper, they said. Hey, look, Sir droids.

Say that I wasn't that guy, you know that said that?

Just. Yeah, exactly. You know, cause it's.

00:58:53 Speaker 2

Like there's no one.

00:58:54 Speaker 2

'S got records for that, but he's like.

It's like, you know, but Strinko comes across and it's like.

00:59:01 Speaker 2

The dude he doesn't have to say anything. You invent your own stories about that.

Just so completely different.

00:59:08 Speaker 3

I was listening to an interview with Neil Adams and it may have been like Kevin Smith or something, but like, it seemed like Neil Adams was just claiming credit for literally everything good that happened in the comic industry. So it's like either he's like the greatest guy ever or he's, you know, something else.

00:59:25 Speaker 1

Yeah, I kind of.

00:59:25 Speaker 2

I created paper without me. They wouldn't have had comic books.

00:59:30 Speaker 1

That there's yeah, there's stories about, you know, the like, the John Burns of the industry, Neil Adams, certainly up there.

00:59:37 Speaker 1

As one of the jerks of the industry.

00:59:40 Speaker 2

Yeah. What was?

00:59:41 Speaker 2

One of the things that was interesting was I remembered at San Diego Comic Con waiting in line forever to talk to somebody, and I don't remember who it was. I think it was like an image creator or something like that. And, you know, waiting in line for him got it signed, walked out. And then I looked behind me and that line just was.

00:59:59 Speaker 2

Just as long as it was when I I came into it. So I was just like this thing was going on forever.

01:00:04 Speaker 2

And the guy you could just see every time he signed another issue for another person and the next person come up and line that you know, you could almost feel like everybody that came up was another pump in the the balloon of his ego. But the moment then I saw like, you know, I needed to grab something to eat. So I left the convention hall walking out and there's just this mass exit this.

01:00:24 Speaker 2

All the time of people coming in, exiting, coming in, exiting, coming in, exiting as I was waiting for this trip.

01:00:29 Speaker 2

Clean cause is that like gas lamp district or whatever it is right across the street from the Convention Center. There's a a commuter train that zips by all the time, so we're all waiting for that train to pass. And I look over and there's that guy, and I can't for the life of me remember who it was, but I just remembered, like, there he is standing there. I waited hours for this guy to sign something and.

01:00:49 Speaker 2

Maybe not hours, but it waited a long time to have him sign something and then.

01:00:53 Speaker 2

There is right?

01:00:54 Speaker 2

There and no one is around and it.

01:00:56 Speaker 2

Was just that, that moment.

01:00:58 Speaker 2

Of realization of like these people are.

01:01:00 Speaker 2

Like God's within that Convention Center. But then once you take them out, no one.

If they don't have that name plaque in front of them saying like I am so and so, I would never know. Like if you said, you know, I I love Jeff Darrow's artwork. But if I saw Jeff Darrell walk down the street among other like 10 other people.

01:01:21 Speaker 2

I would not be able to point.

01:01:22 Speaker 2

Him out in that lineup, you know.

01:01:23 Speaker 2

It's just like you're famous within that building.

01:01:26 Speaker 2

You're just a regular Joe outside of that building.

01:01:29 Speaker 1

I just thought of somebody else I.

01:01:30 Speaker 1

Want to meet? I have not. Ever.

01:01:32 Speaker 1

Met Keith Giffen and I would love to meet him once. Just you know, he he did all these Justice League that I loved and and some Leech and superheroes stuff that I really loved and I've I've never encountered him in any.

01:01:48 Speaker 1

That I've gone to. I would love to meet him and I I just realized that and I I I know. Mike. You've met Mark Wolfman, but I'd probably like the Marvel fan too. Other, other than that, other than that, I'm not sure there's anybody.

To me, if you ever met Keith Giffen, I'll just have you know, if I could have you ask him what the.

01:02:07 Speaker 2

Heck, was that trencher?

01:02:08 Speaker 2

Art style that you have done.

01:02:10 Speaker 1

It was unique, that's for sure. Oh.

01:02:12 Speaker 1

Gosh, so many lines.

01:02:14 Speaker 2

That would just like it's one continuous drawing. It was like watching you remember the highlights magazine and where it have like, you know, can you find these ten items hidden inside that? Listen, that's what that trencher comic felt like. It's like can you?

01:02:30 Speaker 2

In the scrawl that's on this page.

01:02:31

All right.

01:02:32 Speaker 2

Can you determine what's the hero? Can you find the hero in this page?

01:02:36 Speaker 1

I just always felt sorry for the colorist.

01:02:39

For that.

01:02:39 Speaker 2

Oh my gosh. God, that was.

01:02:40 Speaker 1

Because there were so many lines, how could you?

01:02:42 Speaker 1

Even figure out where one started and one.

01:02:45 Speaker 2

Yeah, that was not an.

01:02:46 Speaker 2

Easy color fill.

01:02:47 Speaker 3

You guys mentioned Marv Wolfman. He's on my little list of rude people I've met. Ohh.

Was just like minorly rude. It was. I guess I just was unsatisfied because I walked up.

01:03:01 Speaker 3

And I was like, I was like, hey.

01:03:03 Speaker 3

Can I get your autograph? And it was like, you know, the first appearance of Bullseye.

01:03:07 Speaker 3

In in Daredevil, and he, he had kind of like this old man like, you know, like where they have got resting angry face.

01:03:16

And I was.

01:03:17 Speaker 3

So excited to see him and he just seemed like.

01:03:18 Speaker 3

He was mad.

01:03:19 Speaker 3

At me and he and he signed my comic, and then I walked away and I felt like.

01:03:23 Speaker 3

Almost apologetic for bothering him.

Remember, a comic artist and a writer back in like the early 80s or late 70s named Bob Hall?

01:03:37 Speaker 2

Not right off.

01:03:38 Speaker 3

No, he did like a little bit of everything. He's like, kind of like a, I don't know, maybe he was kind of like the Al Milgram type of guy that would, like, fill in whenever you needed a an artist. So anyway, he I wanted to get a couple of daredevil signs. So I walk up and.

Like, hey, how you doing? And you know, of course, he's, like drawing the picture for someone, so he's not really paying.

01:03:59 Speaker 3

And I said, can I get some? Would you mind signing some comics? And? And he's like, sure. And and I was like, do you do you charge for signing? And this is like maybe 5 or 6.

01:04:08 Speaker 3

Years ago and he was like, yeah, the first three are free. But after that I charged 5 bucks apiece. And I only had four comics for him to sign. I don't know. I had so many. But anyway, he signed all four of them. I handed him a 20 and he just stuck it in his pocket.

01:04:23 Speaker 3

And then he didn't give me any change. So it's like, should I ask him for the change? But then I didn't know much about him and he didn't look like a wealthy guy. So I was just like, well, I'll just.

Yeah. What do you do in those situations? It's like you don't want to embarrass him. You don't want to embarrass yourself, and it's like it's.

01:04:45 Speaker 1

He's just keep it. I'm gonna walk away slowly.

01:04:49 Speaker 2

Well, here's another one and I I I love the guys artwork. I know he's got some personality issues and some other issues in general.

01:04:58 Speaker 2

But one of the things that was a little disappointing, like when people were spending like hundreds of dollars to get original artwork from various comic people at the convention. Normally those things are like, yeah, I'll draw that when I'm like, I'll do these Commission pieces after hours or something like that. You know, so.

01:05:17 Speaker 2

They're not doing it during the show.

01:05:20 Speaker 2

They're getting Steve.

01:05:21 Speaker 2

Rude. We were you.

01:05:22 Speaker 2

Know waiting in line to have signs.

01:05:24 Speaker 2

Something. And he was like sketching out something. And you know, I don't know how much, you know, obviously hundreds of dollars for a Steve Root original, 8 1/2 by 11, just letter drawing or whatever it was. But he had it on Nice Bristol paper and stuff like that. So he he had drawn the bulk of it and then he hands that heat of paper over to his.

01:05:45 Speaker 2

Assistant wife. I don't know who it was, but there's this.

01:05:48 Speaker 2

He says. And really, I've marked an axe.

01:05:50 Speaker 2

Fill it in with a Sharpie.

01:05:51 Speaker 2

Marker. This lady then just proceeds to.

01:05:54 Speaker 2

Fill in all the black areas, all the you know the shadows.

01:05:58 Speaker 1

And I'm thinking.

01:05:59 Speaker 2

Wait a minute. This person paid hundreds of dollars for a Steve Rude drawing, not Steve Rude and assistant. And I thought that's a little shady. You know? It's like, come on, dude, I know you're trying to assembly line this stuff and you just want to kind of hurry it up and get it out the door.

01:06:18 Speaker 2

What if I if I was the person who just plopped down that money and actually watched? Ohh, it's the equivalent of that David Bowie video of modern Love where he reaches down as it's like adoring fan hands him.

01:06:33 Speaker 2

A bouquet of.

01:06:34 Speaker 2

Flowers and he's singing the song. He grabs the flowers and then he takes like 3 pieces over to the right and it hands the flowers over to some other fan in the audience.

01:06:44 Speaker 2

And it's like.

01:06:45 Speaker 2

Obviously, that fan intended those flowers to go to David Bowie, but then David Bowie just quickly hands them off to somebody else in the audience.

01:06:52 Speaker 2

Who's like I got flowers?

01:06:54 Speaker 2

It's like, no, you have flowers from another fan. He just curried it over, you know Currier.

01:07:00 Speaker 1

But he touched it.

01:07:01 Speaker 2

He touched it, I guess, yes, but it was the same thing. It's like I floor was expecting a Steve Roode and then it's like no, no.

Steve and then you know.

01:07:14 Speaker 2

30% somebody some strange lady that just decided to become an anchor at that moment?

01:07:20 Speaker 1

Right. I do like when they sign and they do a little picture with it, stuff like that because it's fancy guy. Did that little picture when had a soggy signature and and that that was great. Like he was really nice too. I I forgot that it's it's great. I had Katie Cook do a doctor fate drawing for me once that was really cool.

01:07:41 Speaker 1

At a time so.

01:07:42 Speaker 1

Yeah, I love it when they do little I know when.

01:07:45 Speaker 1

I got a Paul.

01:07:46 Speaker 1

Chadwick signature. He did a little.

01:07:48 Speaker 1

Street image on that.

01:07:49 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm. Ohh, dude, do you?

Matt's got a a kid or two.

01:07:57 Speaker 2

Probably he would be willing to.

01:07:59 Speaker 2

Part for that that drawing.

01:08:01 Speaker 1

I I'm not sure I when when I met him. I don't think I had a a comic with me though, but he had like a little advertising thing with with concrete on it and he did. He signed that.

01:08:14 Speaker 1

For for me.

01:08:16 Speaker 1

I think it was starting that legends.

01:08:18 Speaker 1

With the darkest thing, and so. So it wasn't a comic sign, but it was a a piece of concrete.

Advertisement Yeah, because there was a stack of them. They were just like basically 8 1/2 by 11 pieces of paper folded in half. So it was kind of like a mini booklet. It was introducing that legends line and then.

01:08:37 Speaker 1

Yeah, I got a Williamson one and.

01:08:40 Speaker 2

Yeah. And then there's just like there's a little Oval that they could sign during that that event. So yeah, they had one for like Art Adams, Manolas. Hell boy, the Frank Millerson city. So they all had something.

01:08:54 Speaker 1

Yeah, it's really neat. If you didn't have something.

01:08:56 Speaker 1

For them to sign, you could still get.

01:08:58 Speaker 3

A signature speaking Speaking of art that is commissioned, my buddy Dave and I went to one of those little tiny conventions in New Jersey. Mark Texier was there and it was right when he just started drawing Ghost Rider. So it was, you know, right when he started getting a little bit more popular.

01:08:58 Speaker 2

So that was kind of nice core thought.

01:09:17 Speaker 3

But he wasn't, like full on popular.

01:09:19 Speaker 3

At that point.

01:09:20 Speaker 3

So Dave and I decided that we were going to go and see if we could get him to paint the ghostwriter giving us the Pennant stare. Like so. We're like, there's no way he's gonna do it. So we walk up to him and we ask him. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it and and take it. Guess how much he was charging for, like, a full comic page. Penance.

01:09:39 Speaker 3

Air Ghost writer and a portrait.

01:09:42 Speaker 1

What? What year, what?

01:09:43 Speaker 3

92 I'm looking at it on the wall.

01:09:48 Speaker 2

I'd say probably about like even then, I'd say probably about like 100 bucks.

01:09:52 Speaker 1

I would say less, I would say less back then.

01:09:55 Speaker 1

Probably 80 bucks.

01:09:56 Speaker 3

40 bucks? It's 40 bucks. So he's like, OK, I'll do it. So of course, Dave was the 1st.

And he and he paints this like beautiful painting of Ghost Rider giving him the penance stare. And he's like, I'm gonna need a break. Maybe come back near the end and I'll do yours. And I was like, OK, so I waited until the very end of the comic convention and I walked up and he and he saw me and he, he just looked.

01:10:21 Speaker 3

Crestfallen, he was like.

01:10:24 Speaker 3

Like he got to do another one of those.

01:10:26 Speaker 3

Right. So he's like, is there any way that I can get out of this? And I was like I was.

01:10:30 Speaker 3

Like I was like, come on, man.

01:10:33 Speaker 3

Please and I you know.

01:10:34 Speaker 3

I just like practically begged him and.

01:10:36 Speaker 3

He was like, alright.

01:10:37 Speaker 3

Fine. But he was really funny about it and the.

01:10:39 Speaker 3

Whole time he.

01:10:40 Speaker 3

Was he was making me pose for him, you know, like make a really scary, frightened face. And so I was, and everyone was laughing around cause I look so ridiculous. He finally finished it. And he said well.

01:10:50 Speaker 3

Not. I've got some pocket money to go get some dinner. And so. But for 40 bucks, I got this really great painting on my wall right now.

That would have cost you probably 200 bucks now at least.

01:11:05 Speaker 2

Yeah. More. Yeah, if it was actual that that size. And to do it on the.

01:11:05 Speaker 3

Ohh or more yeah.

01:11:11 Speaker 3

Spot. Oh yeah. I bought a a Spiderman comic page from cell book Buscema or Buscema.

01:11:11 Speaker 1

Like that, yeah.

01:11:20 Speaker 2

Now they're all stuttering that name.

01:11:22 Speaker 3

Yeah, you screwed me up. I used to.

01:11:23 Speaker 3

Think I knew how.

01:11:24 Speaker 3

To pronounce it. But I bought a whole page and he signed it to me and it's like Spiderman fighting the Puma and he charged me 25 bucks.

01:11:37 Speaker 3

The whole comic page.

01:11:38 Speaker 2

Dang, that's insane. Insane. Yeah, that's that original. I mean, like, like you, you know that. It's that issue. That's it right there. Yeah. Back in the day. Well, I mean, Andy and I sat in on a panel with a bunch of golden Age artists and one.

01:11:39 Speaker 3

Inked and everything.

01:11:55 Speaker 2

Of them said, like, do you?

01:11:55

Have any of your.

01:11:56 Speaker 2

It was like Sheldon mulled.

01:11:58 Speaker 2

Off and a couple of other people on that panel. But yeah, I think so and maybe one other person, but they're all from the Golden Age and there's like.

01:12:01 Speaker 1

Was it Marty Mundell and.

01:12:08

Do you have any of?

01:12:09 Speaker 2

Your original art, it's.

01:12:10 Speaker 2

You don't understand at that time the art was looked down upon as being so disposable that when it they would run it through the presses to have it like, you know, getting ready for a plate to be made to print these comics that the.

01:12:27 Speaker 2

Artwork would be put on.

01:12:28 Speaker 2

There to get transferred to become a.

01:12:32 Speaker 2

Plate and when the art was when they peel it off, they have it, you know, like, OK, we we've got the plate made. They would flip the artwork upside down. So the art was facing down, put it on the floor and then that way they would have a nice surface to walk on in order. So they're that people working, the presses wouldn't get to themselves.

01:12:52 Speaker 2

All covered in ink and goo, and it's like.

01:12:55 Speaker 2

So you through all those.

01:12:57 Speaker 2

Original Golden Age comics. All those first appearances? All the like. Key moment.

01:13:02 Speaker 2

In comic history, the original art was just looked as being garbage to the point.

01:13:07 Speaker 2

Of like, well, we do what?

01:13:08

We need to do.

01:13:09 Speaker 2

With it now the only purpose they can serve is.

01:13:11 Speaker 2

To be floor covering for us to walk.

01:13:14 Speaker 2

Upon and then not.

01:13:15 Speaker 2

Even with the art side up is the art side down, so they wouldn't even have to. Yeah, that would absorb the ink and other.

01:13:22 Speaker 2

Dirt and debris. Yeah. At one point, Art was considered absolutely worthless. And now it's like a lot of people are making secondary careers out of just reselling their own.

01:13:31 Speaker 3

Artwork. Ohh yeah.

01:13:32 Speaker 3

I think Jim Steranko was one of the first.

01:13:34 Speaker 3

People at Marvel to negotiate a contract where he got to keep all of his original artwork, but Marvel used to just give away the original artwork to people who visited the the office. You know, if you if you got a tour of the office, they'd hand hand the kids out, you know, Spiderman pages.

Or whatever. Yeah, I.

01:13:52 Speaker 2

Only got the tour of the DC.

01:13:54 Speaker 2

Offices in New York. I never got to the marvel one.

01:13:56 Speaker 1

That's cool. Me neither. Yeah, me neither. I barely left the state, you know.

01:14:03 Speaker 1

That's not entirely true, but definitely not for anything fun like that.

01:14:06 Speaker 2

It's cause all the outstanding warrants, Sandy.

01:14:09 Speaker 1

Right. I know that's right.

01:14:10 Speaker 3

Do you guys know the comic black sad?

01:14:13 Speaker 1

Yes, I do. In fact, you're the one that told me to get it. And I I did.

01:14:14 Speaker 3

Yes, it's like.

01:14:17 Speaker 1

Purchase it and rent it.

01:14:18 Speaker 3

Ohh yeah, it's really really good. Anyway, it's drawn by a guy named Juano Guardado, and he was at the Baltimore Comic Con and I went up just to get him to sign my book for me.

01:14:32 Speaker 3

And I was the first one in line to get a signature. He flaps it open and he just draws a portrait of Black said on the inside. Like, like the whole size of the whole page, and signed his name with, like, a with an ink brush. And it's beautiful. It's like one of my.

01:14:46 Speaker 3

Favorite things I've got.

01:14:47 Speaker 1

That's that's well, you know what I would say? Leave them wanting more. So I think that's good for comic convention talk for now.

01:14:49 Speaker 1

Sweet. Yeah, for now.

01:14:58 Speaker 1

Unless somebody has a last minute.

01:15:01 Speaker 1

Fun story to tell, yeah.

01:15:02 Speaker 2

Some are, yeah, some were shocking, you know, cause like there's some aspects of meeting childhood celebrities. I don't know. We haven't. We only talk about comics at the comic convention, but there's a lot of celebrities that show up and it's.

01:15:15 Speaker 2

Like not. What do you expect? Or some people were like? Whoa, definitely. Yeah. I didn't anticipate this person being there.

01:15:16

Right.

01:15:22 Speaker 1

Right. Well, let's, let's save that for the next one. Maybe we can have Matt back.

01:15:26 Speaker 1

For another convention talk.

01:15:28 Speaker 2

That'd be.

01:15:28 Speaker 1

Great. Thanks Matt for coming on and sharing some stories with us. That's exactly.

The different person.

01:15:35 Speaker 3

Thank. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's nice meeting you.

01:15:40 Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, and now I'm.

01:15:41 Speaker 3

Yeah, already Randy.

01:15:43 Speaker 2

Yeah, I have to dig up. Like who is?

01:15:43 Speaker 1

Yeah, sorry about that.

01:15:46 Speaker 2

Bob Hall and Black said and all these things that.

01:15:50 Speaker 2

I've not been.

01:15:51 Speaker 2

Made aware of ahead of time.

01:15:52 Speaker 2

So it gives me something to do it.

01:15:52 Speaker 1

I think you'll enjoy.

01:15:53 Speaker 1

Black site, so four and This is why.

01:15:56 Speaker 1

I love comics.

01:15:58 Speaker 1

Andy and this is Michael.

01:16:00 Speaker 3

And this is Matt. Yeah.

01:16:02 Speaker 1

And we'll talk to you next.

01:16:05 Speaker 1

As always, thanks to Thunder chicken for letting me use their music, go check them out on Spotify.

01:16:33 Speaker 3

These are some great books, boys.