Audio file

And welcome to the soda. And This is why I love comics. Andy and Mike are back together again. We're going to discuss an issue eventually as we always do. And you know, we'll see. We'll see how we get to that issue. I don't know. We're just talking about it and trying to figure out what we were going to say.

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We we didn't pick a whole series this time.

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We picked a single issue. An event unlike any other or just like any other. I don't know it's we'll have to talk about.

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It. Hi Mike.

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Hey, good evening. Good evening, good evening.

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How are you today?

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For a hump day, it is a fantastic.

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Day at that.

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Yeah, it is certainly a Wednesday, that's for sure.

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It feels any day could feel like a day Wednesday. Definitely feels like a day.

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Definitely harden my sniffles. I have a little cold going, but other than that, we are ready to go. We were just talking.

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Like the post office, you know rain or colds, stair.

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On our appointed routes, that's right.

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We'll try it.

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We have to, we have to do a podcast. Not even the cold can keep.

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You at Bay.

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That's true. You know, whatever. I'll make it through it. I Will Survive this.

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Whatever it is.

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Thank you, Gloria. That's right.

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I Will Survive.

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So did you read anymore Dresden?

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The discos I can get.

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I am on book some something can't remember it. It's getting to the level like the power creep and everything that we talked about offline. I'm on a book called Changes which is I think book like 11 or no it's like.

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The danger?

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The animal, a workaday murder performed with expedience and the.

Probably coffee waiting. I just hit that button.

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If it gets 15 seconds or less, we.

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Can do it.

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OK. Yeah. It's actually part 12, part 12 and yeah.

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The skipper book did you?

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Yeah, but and, but I found that.

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There was some things that.

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I missed obviously, but I wouldn't say I necessarily missed them. They were. They kind of recapped quite a bit of what you know major things and and.

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That happened.

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Yeah, he's a good filler in on.

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Kind of recap, Yep.

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Yeah, 56U with Parkview. You know we cap previously uh Dresden.

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Files, right? I'm so we'll we'll talk about Dresden eventually in an episode because I'm I'm so glad someone else that I know was reading it, and then I can talk about it because it's my favorite series and I've I'm, I'm all caught up.

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And I'm just waiting for him to write the new one. And of course, it's probably going to be a couple of years because he just came out with.

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In the last year or so.

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It'll be a.

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While yeah, I'm on, you know, #12 and I guess #17.

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I can get that one.

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Let's see how that goes over.

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Don't don't jump.

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To 17 from 12, I wouldn't recommend.

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It there there?

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Might be a couple of key components.

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That are missing.

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Yeah, there's a couple things. Couple things that happened. That power creep keeps going up, though. You know there's one.

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In the way.

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So much evil you can take before you go to the next level, although.

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His power rises and rises and then kind of plateaus, and then the villains, he.

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Continues to rise and rise, and that's certainly the last two books. I'm not going to spoil anything, of course, but the creep was huge, you know.

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That, yeah.

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David Goliath kind of worse, more like, you know, Jimmy Olsen fights Dark side, you know? Yeah.

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And somehow managed to pull it off with.

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A little wit.

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Snark, sarcasm, and a bunch of pop culture reference quotes.

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This isn't ready player.

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I did. I I did go.

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Through Ready Player 2 already as well.

Not as good as one. One was interesting because it was its uniqueness of it being kind.

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Of like oh.

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Wow. A, you know, a complete book.

Right. I I liked ready player one. I certainly liked the premise and everything like that. What I got tired of is every chapter 2. Suddenly it was.

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A list of things you know. Sick arms of the 80s, and they'll just run.

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Through a bunch of ohh.

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Our music and it just like it, got tiring after a while. His writing style.

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Yeah, there was definitely that level of.

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Like you know, if you.

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Knew that that was a from this book series that was popular at that time and.

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Why it was popular was.

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It's like, are you just like copying and pasting Wikipedia?

Calling that a chapter and then loosely connecting all these Wikipedia entries into one bigger book.

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Right is is the second book any different or is it more the same?

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It suffers from kind of that second book syndrome. You know, any with a few exceptions, anything that.

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The second is always like a derivation of the first. It's like wow, that was wild. Was his success successful? Let's try that again. And you know, there's a lot of striking similarities to the first one, but it picks up like immediately. Ohh, not immediately, but really close to where the.

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First book left off.

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And then just takes a path and then and first of all he's going to.

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Take a different.

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Direction with this one and it's not going to be about. Ohh well, OK. And it it was a lot of similar you know it's like if you like the first one you're going to like the second one even more because.

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We did the same thing again, right? Yeah.

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Kind of like.

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That was that. The Henry the eighth song. Where's Henry? The eighth that I am. You know second verse. Same as the first.

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Yeah, I just finally watched the movie version of it with one of my sons last week and it was again. You know, if you freeze framed every panel or every second of the movie, you know, it'd be kind of cool to see it.

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Look around and see different aspect.

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Like some of shows and stuff in the background and stuff but.

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My son liked it and I enjoyed it. For what?

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It was, but it it wasn't anything super.

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I pulled that all off. The licensing on that movie must have been outrageous because you had like King Kong, iron giant and all these other, you know, characters. And I'm trying to remember if it was a Dream works movie.

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Or you know who pulled that movie together? But my goodness, it was literally, you know.

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Anything you could throw at?

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It that somebody might remember.

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And then some.

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I did just pick up a a new Superman title where his son is taking over the mantle just to see what it was about and it was OK. It was, you know, I don't want to say it. That's not my Superman, but and I I had read like John, the new Superman had had been in the last 12:00-ish.

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These are the the latest leads in the superheroes Title 2, so I was kind of used to him. I don't like that they aged him to be the Superman. I liked it when he was a young kid. John, you kind of saw him growing up with parents like that storyline Dan Jergens did and it was really.

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Good. Yeah, that's what I had heard.

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And then they take, they spend it suddenly aged him, which is what everybody was afraid of, and it was just really dumb. But then the characters.

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I have lost a lot of story potentials.

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Right, having read the new issue, it wasn't terrible, but it still was.

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What I what I wanted as a character but.

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Well, you think about, you know, what is it? Franklin Richards has been perpetually 10 years old. For, what, 40 years?

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You know, I don't know. Maybe.

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They backed him up.

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To 12. I don't know if.

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He's even into this but.

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Yeah, I think he's older now, but.

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They've been able to continue that.

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Kid in his storyline without having to.

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Go jump him up in years.

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Yeah, well, the problem with DC is that they have all these Robins and they have to age each one just to get the next one up there so that they can be, they can have another Robin.

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I mean, if you think about it, Batman's had like 12 Robins, and they've all been within, you know, seven years because, you know, **** Grayson's what, 30 now or, you know, he's not that old.

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No, no, he's still in fighting crime, right? Yeah. And I remember at one point reading an article that said that you.

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Know when the this is obviously.

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The new 52. But when the new 52?

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Came on that he said something about Batman had been in business as Batman for only five years.

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Yeah, but they kept all the.

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Robins. Yeah. So it's like, how is that possible that he's able to train all these young kids to become absolute masters of whatever fighting style?

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The ball.

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Detective work, all that stuff.

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And to have graduated and had a successful career outside of, you know, being the sidekick and then go through the next one and then go through the next one and then have another one called Damian Wayne who's old enough.

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To fight who?

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Is Batman's son while he was Batman, it's like.

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How do they age him up?

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In order for that timeline to work.

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Right. Yeah. The problem with DC is well, they want to reboot, but they don't want to reboot like they did. Like you either reboot everything and you start over and you're got Bruce Wayne and **** **** Grayson.

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And ignore all these other characters and start over or don't reboot and just accept the fact that you have a history. You know for 80 years and just go with it and they kind of picked an in between where now there's all these the the new fad is multiverse. You know, both Marvel and DC are.

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Focusing in on it being able to have any character they want at any time at any point like they found a solution to all their problems with all these different characters, let's just say multiverse, and then they can have any character they want at anytime and screw continuity.

The you know all continuity is real. All these characters, for the most part, remember all their past lives. Remember all the things that they did before. And if they don't, there's a story reason for it. And ohh well and then maybe they will later and you know screw screw it makes sense. Just do a story and hopefully readers.

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Will like it.

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Heavy emphasis on how.

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Yeah. And then they wonder why readers are bailing out.

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Well, that and the $4.00 an issue for something that's only like what less than 20 pages pass, you know, and when you know they're not to go like.

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Right, yeah.

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Ohh back in my day but back in my.

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Day. You know the comics like you felt like you got a significant story.

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I thought it was like, holy crap, Shakespeare couldn't have written a better tale as this, but you felt like stuff happened. Things something.

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Occurred in that issue, but when going back to the aforementioned Bendis and he had done that New Avengers Holy.

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Like how we how we.

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Both phrase bendis. I know it's like it's almost like, yeah. Instead of, like, dropping an F bomb, it's like man.

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Bend this off.

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You know, it's something. It's almost a curse, but they had.

Whole like new Avengers after like Scarlet Witch did something and disassembled The Avengers. It was like 5 issues of Captain America just going will.

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You be my friend.

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And then a bunch of heads talking.

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For a while, will you be my friend?

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And it's like ohh my gosh, when is this going to end? And you spent the money on several issues in the world going to it. It's gotta get better.

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It has to get better and sure enough, it never did, and it might.

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Have way down the road.

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But I gave up. It's like enough. I'm not gonna buy another one.

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Of these things.

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You know, and then at 5 bucks apiece and then, you know, and when you can get a better, more gripping tail in the movies, you know, it's like, yeah, I'd rather do that. You know, I can either get one, you know, two issues a month or subscription to Disney Plus which.

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One am I going to do?

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And it's like.

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Yeah, I think I'll do the Disney plus option, you know.

Just not a competitive medium anymore.

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And they they need to do something, and unfortunately, all these gimmicks that they're trying to do are just causing more harm than help.

Think all these reboots they do get a, you know, like the dollar signs for the big wigs. You know, the big corporate execs see dollar signs every time they reboot, so of course they're going to.

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Want to reboot every couple of years?

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Because that's their jump in their pay. You know it for the long run. It's really hurting everybody because people don't really care anymore about these characters. And if they do.

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Do you know if that's the style they like? That's fine. But you know, for us, us old time folks, you know us old geezers, you know, we like a little bit more meat. They don't. You know, most comics characters don't have thought balloons anymore. You know, they've taken that out and they cut the pages down about 6 pages.

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You know, so it's like 20/28/20 pages maybe and then they jacked up the price. And even though the paper is nice and the color is nice, I would prefer a 30 page old news print comic with some decent characters. And the storyline that actually has.

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Straight like that.

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Has meaning, but it doesn't have to have an event every three issues. Yeah, yeah.

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Crossover event my view to get all these others, she's going to get.

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A complete since this scope in the store.

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Writers want to make their mark on all these stories because that's where the money is, and then eventually all these stories don't mean anything because it happens all the time, you know?

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Gwen Stacy dies in issue 1:00 and 2:00 and 3:00 and 4:00.

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But everybody remembers when they were. When Gwen Stacy really died.

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I think.

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You know, like they remember.

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That issue because it was such an event.

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Well, I mean, it goes back to you know, add birds, the incredibles, everyone's special, and nobody's special, you know, that was syndromes, characters, motivation is like, I wanna give super powers to everybody. So then everybody's got special abilities. And then that means that.

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No one is really that special because it diminishes.

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Every time you do it, it just takes it down or not, but no one cares anymore and you know you can have some of the best writers out there and it it baffles me when you look at it's like, OK, Marv Wolfman, Chris is on infinite Earths fix things and.

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It it fixed?

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It for quite a while and then it kind of got a.

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Little bit messy.

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And then let's try to reboot it.

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And you know, they did. And then the big reboot, the.

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New 52.

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And even that wasn't enough that they got Grant Morrison to come in for that something crisis. But you remember what that one was called. But then, like, that multiplicity or something, what was it?

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It's called.

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But it's kind of like.

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No, it was grant Morrison's.

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Run that he did. That was basically no.

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Editors know what you're looking for is called Multiversity. It's a 2 issue limited series combined with 7 interrelated one shot set in the DC Multiverse by Grant Morrison back in 2014, 2015. Back to the show already in progress.

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And that was the.

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Kind of bring back the multiverse and but he helped define it again to being.

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Like if you want these stories that's happening here, you want these stories that's happening here and it's like, ohh, right. And then they drop that, they go back to the reboot rebirth.

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And it's like, ohh geez, you just had it fixed and now you're fixing it yet again.

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Right. I'm gonna lay out.

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I ran see comics. Yeah.

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This is music.

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And I brought this up.

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With other people, but.

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Just what you need to do is just lock.

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Things into a 12.

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Through continuity and then start it over again and.

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Have a whole new creative team and don't worry.

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About what came before, it's like these twelve issues with this character. It's just.

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Gonna be a complete, like novel.

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Full of sorts of long form 12 issue novel.

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And then you pick up the next.

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One, you can either take some of the elements from the previous one.

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And add to.

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It with the new create.

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Team or you can disregard absolutely everything and you know, but there's like something about it that kind of keeps it to its core with that said.

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The only one of the my.

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Biggest beefs and to your point, what you were saying earlier.

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Is that the corporate?

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Bigwigs want to see the.

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And they want that money, that quick change of money, and it's like, well, Batman selling. Let's have 400 Batman titles and it's like, but you're burning through Batman stories and you're making Batman less significant because whatever happens in the Batman title versus a detective type versus shadow of the bat or versus, you know, Batman Forever or Batman Begins or whatever you want to call the next title.

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Got. There's just too many Batmans that nothing of consequences like you. You can't kill Batman off because he's got too many titles running, so there's no threat there. And then nothing of significance happened.

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And there's no point of differentiation anymore. One of the things is a point of inspiration is to like what I would say would be the way to do things is looking back to what John Byrne had done when he did Superman, he had the Superman title.

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Which was just.

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Superman, on his own doing his own thing, but then he had action Comics.

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Which was like Superman teaming up with another DC Hero or heroes that gave it a point.

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Of separation, it wasn't.

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Just like here's the Superman title, another Superman title, and another Superman title, and they all have.

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The different story going.

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And it's like, no, this was designed. If you just want.

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To read a.

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Good clue, Superman story. It has nothing else. It's it's contained. That's Superman. But if you want Superman and you want to sprinkle in some other characters from DC, then get Action Comics and the same thing with Batman. It's like, OK, you have Batman, but it's like a very young Batman.

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You know, like first couple of years fighting and.

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Then you can have Detective Comics that's more of your mystery, Batman. You tap into different aspects of Batman's character, and then you'd have, like, a Batman and Robin.

Only issue that you get if you want.

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Even you gotta get Batman and Robin, he only had those three titles. And so from publish his point of view, then you don't have to pay 3 creative teams. And if you only have three creative teams, guess.

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What you can have.

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The best creative teams because you're not like.

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Going you're not trying to.

20 Batman titles it's like, No, I.

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Only have 3 Batman.

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Sales and I'm going to get the best.

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Of the best and then.

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People are going to.

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Buy those and you're not going to have like.

No one's gonna buy because you got the.

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Absolute peak of talent on those three title.

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And as a fan, it would do them the service cause then all they have to do is pay, buy those three and then from a production point of view, your quantities that you print of those three titles go up because those are the only way you can get Batman stories. If you want Batman stories, you're gonna have to get it through one Batman book.

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And all the people instead of spending money trying to get, like, making 20 various bad titles, you only make one Batman title, so you're only paying for one.

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Printing, but you're getting a discount on that print because you're buying in second volume and that's that would be how I would run it to just kind of like streamline it, make it fan friendly again where you don't have to feel like.

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I go to the the.

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Comic shop look at the shelves and it's like crap. It's nothing but Batman and the Joker on every cover.

00:20:52 Speaker 1

From DC Comics and then you look over and like, well, Marvel's doing the same and you're like, hey, great, I have no idea how many Spiderman titles there are. There's so many different titles that have Spiderman in it. It's like, I don't even know where to start. And I have been collecting comics for years.

00:21:12 Speaker 1

And you know, I can imagine being a new person who's like, hey, it doesn't seem that Spiderman movies and I.

00:21:20 Speaker 4

Like it? Where else? Gonna get some spider man's. Oh, you go to the coffee shop, OK. And you walk into a coffee shop and you're like, I don't know. What's that even start on?

The shop and it's like, yeah.

00:21:34 Speaker 2

Question. Sometimes why comic portion of Marvel or DC in the movie version?

00:21:42 Speaker 2

Like sometimes I I have to question whether those two even communicate with each other because a lot of times I see that frequently, especially last couple of months is, you know, Marvel, the movie version is coming out soon, but in the comic version like they're killing off the character and having some other character like Doctor Strange is dying.

00:22:03 Speaker 2

But he's coming out in the movie soon, you know, like either they're building up to something, you know they're gonna resurrect him, right when the movie.

00:22:10 Speaker 2

Comes out or they're just not caring about anything that's going on for the viewer who goes into that comic shop and goes well. I want to Doctor Strange comic. Well, yeah, OK. But his character is dead. You know, Cleo is now, you know, Doctor Strange or, you know, doctor, you know, brother Voodoo is now.

00:22:31 Speaker 1

The sorcerer supreme.

00:22:31 Speaker 2

Like, right? Yeah, it's the.

00:22:33 Speaker 2

1st, it's like there's not maybe.

00:22:35 Speaker 4

It was like Benedict.

00:22:36 Speaker 1

Cumberbatch, none of these guys look like a.

00:22:40 Speaker 2

Great. Why would I want a comic about someone else when the movie just came out? And I'm loving this character and I want to see this character.

00:22:48 Speaker 1

Yeah. And some of it's rather ironic.

00:22:51 Speaker 1

Because like you.

00:22:51 Speaker 1

Know during the Captain America movies, the Falcon was Captain America or and then Winter Soldier, I think was Captain America for a little bit. So I was like, OK, so neither cause I was worried after like, Captain America got shot connect from the movies and then Iron Man.

00:23:09 Speaker 1

Iron Man, who had died and became AI for the armor, and then it was that Rey Wilson or some character that a female teenager that was now the new Iron Man. And it's again, not. That's not Robert Downey junior.

00:23:25 Speaker 1

And then the.

00:23:25 Speaker 1

The most ironic was when Thors movies were coming out, the Lady Thor, the Jane Foster character as as Thor was in the comics, and then now that Jane Foster is going to be in the movies, they've converted it back to being thoris Thor.

You kind of like ships passing in the dark kind.

00:23:50 Speaker 2

You guys have each other's emails, right? You can. You can communicate. Am I correct in that?

Be that that difficult to pull somebody aside.

00:24:00 Speaker 2

Is this your master plan? Yeah. Now you not sure what triggered this question, but you started collecting comics.

More often I I have this this app that I use and I did a statistics run and it it showed me what year I have the most commerce of. And you know each year by year it has which where I was collecting the.

What's really interesting is, I mean it it it pretty much gave me the information I already knew, like the 80s for me was comic central like I was. Mm-hmm. Collecting the year, I have the most comics in was 1984, which is because Iowa.

Orwellian because I was what? That middle school for that and then 858786. So like, you know, right in high school I was collecting so many like I had so many comics from that era when I don't even remember how I was making money off of that you know like.

Get where did I afford this? This money I was doing like chores around the house. But that even back then.

00:25:15 Speaker 2

And I wasn't getting spot for money, and I had a job in high school later, but not in the earlier years. And I was like, I I would must have been getting almost every issue that was coming out.

00:25:27 Speaker 1

Well, the tooth fairy was very generous.

00:25:29 Speaker 2

I guess or I was, I don't know. Was selling plasma or something like that?

00:25:34 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, I guess you know, you didn't need both kidneys at that age.

00:25:40 Speaker 2

Right. What's really interesting though is.

00:25:43 Speaker 2

Noticing when I started to drop, you know what year I was, I suddenly less issues per year and everything like that and really like once I hit 2000, I wasn't getting very many monthlies. And then after that it really dropped like I like last year.

00:26:03 Speaker 2

Yeah, like last year, I.

00:26:04 Speaker 2

I only owned 19 issues from 20/19, right?

00:26:08 Speaker 1

That's pre COVID. If you haven't gone to the shop and I got 19. Wow, that's just barely over one a month. I mean, it's like 1 and.

Of those were were legion. Like cause that's what I still collect when they come out 2015. I had 31 issues.

00:26:24 Speaker 2

So even back.

00:26:25 Speaker 2

Then in 2016, nine to 83 that must have.

00:26:28 Speaker 2

Been rebirth or?

00:26:29 Speaker 2

Something because I I did get all the rebirth issues #1.

00:26:32 Speaker 1

Yeah, see where they're heading with?

00:26:34 Speaker 2

It. Yeah. So once once.

00:26:36 Speaker 2

2000 hit my collecting dropped well 2002.

00:26:41 Speaker 2

Like there's a couple years where I must have picked it back up.

00:26:43 Speaker 1

But give it another try, yeah.

00:26:46 Speaker 2

But it is really interesting using this app where my interests dropped suddenly and you know I got older.

00:26:54 Speaker 2

Whatever. But it didn't taper.

00:26:56 Speaker 1

Off it sounds like it sounds like it just just dropped like a off a Cliff.

They tried a reboot. I was less interested, so like I was all in on crisis I it was 1985. I'm like I I've been collecting for probably already then like 10.

00:27:15 Speaker 2

Years or whatever.

00:27:17 Speaker 2

Well, maybe 8 and just getting what I can just trying to feed this. You know my mind getting every issue I could and then crisis came and I'm like, great. I mean, I didn't need it because I understood there was multiple Earths. You know, I was mostly a DC guy, so you didn't have to really explain to me that these people lived on Earth too. These people lived under three. I get it.

00:27:37 Speaker 2

You know, I had no problem with it, OK? They want to combine it all into one.

00:27:41 Speaker 2

Universe. Great. I don't care. You know, as long as all these characters still exist. 9, You know, 1985 crisis on infinite earth. My favorite artist, George Perez. Mark wolfman. I'm all in, you know, boom.

00:27:51 Speaker 1

Ohh yeah, the dream.

00:27:53 Speaker 2

The dream team for me, and I'm all in. And after that, you know, they reboot Superman and suddenly John Byrne, who was, you know, I really liked back then.

00:28:03 Speaker 2

It'll be always.

00:28:03 Speaker 1

Yeah, it's pretty hot at.

00:28:04 Speaker 2

Doing Superman, he's rebooting Superman, love the Superman and I get to jump in on day one and it's a true reboot like he's starting over.

00:28:05 Speaker 1

The time.

00:28:14 Speaker 2

You know he's not Superman yet. He's got the Man of Steel 6 issue mini.

00:28:17 Speaker 2

Series I'm all reading everything I get every single. Yep, I get every issue of, you know, like you said that there's a team up book and there's a new adventures of Superman and they're all great. Like, great stuff. They have the best artists, best writers on the job.

00:28:20 Speaker 4

Explains at Lex Luther.

00:28:38 Speaker 2

You know, DC is hiring all these people. We're we're eventually going to get to the book tonight, which is Wonder Woman, issue number one with the George Perez.

00:28:49 Speaker 2

Reboot and you know they're getting all these top people for these top characters. They got Miller and.

00:28:56 Speaker 2

Who else they had on Batman? You know, like they're getting all their top creators and mazzuchelli.

00:29:03 Speaker 2

DC is just.

00:29:04 Speaker 2

Running full force into a reboot and everything makes sense to introduce these chair Captain Adam character and Blue Beetle.

00:29:13 Speaker 2

Boost, you know they.

00:29:13 Speaker 2

Got booster gold? All these characters.

00:29:16 Speaker 2

Than for me.

00:29:18 Speaker 2

You know that must have been when my brain went. I love.

00:29:22 Speaker 6

This stuff.

00:29:24 Speaker 1

Yeah, this is my life going forward.

00:29:27 Speaker 2

Uncle Scrooge, me. A whole bin of nomics, and I won't leap into it.

00:29:31 Speaker 1

Yeah, swimming.

00:29:33 Speaker 2

And I will swim and dive. Well, let's see if I tapered off about 2000.

00:29:38 Speaker 2

You know, I've spent a good 15 years diving into this DC Wonderland for me and Marvel was there too. Don't get me wrong, I have a huge collection of Uncanny X-Men and Avengers and I love Captain America and all that stuff. So I mean, I'm not.

00:29:57 Speaker 2

Blindly just doing DC, but it was it was mainly what I was what I was into like that worked for me and then the new 52 didn't work for me and I don't know why.

00:30:09 Speaker 1

That's a, that's a that's.

00:30:10 Speaker 1

A tough one, you know, because it was.

00:30:13 Speaker 1

Like they didn't. They had the opportunity, yet they didn't completely like. OK, you know the.

00:30:21 Speaker 1

The biggest overhaul?

00:30:22 Speaker 1

They did was that they gave everybody.

00:30:23 Speaker 1

Really high collar costumes.

00:30:26 Speaker 1

Is the thin, agarian clothing designer that came finally broke out.

00:30:31 Speaker 1

Of you know, looking for all the Hoffman.

00:30:33 Speaker 1

On thanagar.

00:30:34 Speaker 1

And then designed all the costumes for the DC characters, and that was about the only real substantial alteration they had done was just we thought they did because. Yeah. And that was it. But yeah, that that was so disappointing because, I mean, I I wonder, you know, there's a level of what, like.

00:30:42 Speaker 2

What's that, Jim Lee guy?

00:30:53 Speaker 1

Can they do?

00:30:54 Speaker 1

A full reboot because.

00:30:57 Speaker 1

You know what they did?

00:30:59 Speaker 1

You know when DC started, you had your what was his name? Jay Garrett was the flash. And Alan Scott was Green Lantern. And they had different costumes, different people, different supporting cast, different villains all.

00:31:13 Speaker 1

Of it and then.

00:31:14 Speaker 1

When the Silver Age under Julie.

00:31:16 Speaker 1

Courts had the the Barry Allen Flash and the Hal Jordan being Lantern. That's a complete like these guys had nothing to do with the other iterations of the characters. It was a complete like, OK, we were breaking from those those iterations, those options and the characters were creating something new.

00:31:36 Speaker 1

I don't know if if they can ever do that again, you know, and they're trying to to some degree, but it's just like they're just dipping their toe.

00:31:44 Speaker 1

Been saying like Bruce Wayne is not Batman, it's now Lucius Fox's son, or whatever his name is. Is. Yeah, Batman.

00:31:51 Speaker 2

Yeah, they have to have another generation.

00:31:51 Speaker 6

And it's like.

00:31:53 Speaker 1

Yeah. And at that point though, it's like you've not made a real commitment. You've not broken the stuff to the point where you feel like I.

00:32:04 Speaker 1

Can I'm gonna, you know?

00:32:05 Speaker 1

I'm gonna see what these new.

00:32:07 Speaker 1

New takes are under these characters.

00:32:10 Speaker 1

But it's like they're so tied to the original versions that you don't feel like it's really that this this is.

00:32:15 Speaker 1

Just a gimmick?

00:32:16 Speaker 2

Over saturation of characters, you've got 12 different Batmans and 15 different supermans and three blue beetles, and you know 4 Captain Americas and each each Captain America has a fan club. You know that somebody wants that version, and they're never going to please everybody, even.

00:32:36 Speaker 2

You never, clearly you're never going to please me because I'm a grumpy old man who would rather read his 80s comics than today's comics. But you know, it's just an over saturation and you.

00:32:48 Speaker 2

Lose. You lose. Focus on where that character came from, like, like you said, there's there was an Earth 2 version of the Flash and a Green Lantern and it and for me it made sense. You didn't have to explain it. And then they had silver aged it. And you have a new version of the Green Lantern. And they're and they're doing it again. But to me, they're so iconic now.

00:33:08 Speaker 2

They're so in the mainstream. Clark Kent is Superman, and introducing Clark Kent's son John as Superman.

00:33:16 Speaker 2

And it just doesn't have like. Why can't you just tell a different Clark Kent story? But you've lost. What made the original character where he is now. And I kind of character in just trying to create something new and I.

00:33:33 Speaker 2

Get you know.

00:33:34 Speaker 2

People want new things. I'm not saying you shouldn't create a new character.

00:33:37 Speaker 2

But there's just the saturation of it which makes my grumpy brain old brain hurt.

00:33:43 Speaker 1

To your point with these new characters, let's say you know going to the the new Batman or the Jonathan Kent.

00:33:51 Speaker 1

Superman, you've already told the the characters background, so there's no mystery left. I mean, what made Wolverine insanely popular for outside of, you know, being an interesting character was this mystery, his background and tales of them, you know, origin stories and.

00:34:11 Speaker 1

All these other classic aspects of like.

00:34:15 Speaker 1

You know what? What came before or what?

00:34:18 Speaker 1

How did they get to this point? Or?

00:34:20 Speaker 1

You can't tell those tales right now because it's like you've already seen these characters in existence already, that there isn't any, you know, like.

00:34:29 Speaker 1

Ohh remember when.

00:34:30 Speaker 1

He fought this character, or why this villain has it out for them? Why they have it out for him and it's just simply they don't.

00:34:40 Speaker 1

They've already explained all the back story they've already explained, so all they can do is like introduce new things. There couldn't be any mystery to it and that's that's something that's lacking. That's something that's missing.

00:34:52 Speaker 1

I mean, and it's absolutely, you know, like with when you have a new character, you could introduce something like, yeah, this happened to them when they're A-Team. Cause you could introduce it to him because it's like, yeah, that's what you know they had encountered.

Even you know, in a more current setting, that hushed storyline that Jeff Loeb.

00:35:12 Speaker 1

And Jim Lee had done for Batman. It's like they introduced a character that was like, you know, Bruce Wayne's childhood best friend. And it's like, well, great mystery who this hush character is they introduce.

00:35:24 Speaker 1

Somebody a few issues.

00:35:25 Speaker 1

Later. Oh, that turned out to be the bad guy all along.

00:35:28 Speaker 6

Wow. Surprise.

00:35:29 Speaker 1

Yeah, spoilers if you ever get to that series, but.

00:35:33 Speaker 2

Have you read long Halloween?

00:35:34 Speaker 1

Yeah, I did. That was fantastic.

00:35:36 Speaker 2

Yeah, we'll have to.

00:35:37 Speaker 1

Do that one. Yeah. So, but you're able to introduce, like, elements to the character, add to the character forward and backwards. But with these new versions, these new takes on these characters, they can't go back because they've already well established and they made them so young that there's not really enough time for them to have accrued.

00:35:57 Speaker 1

Their own like Rogues, gallery or.

00:36:00 Speaker 1

Or, you know, the proverbial rogues gallery of their own making. You know when it's like, you know, back in the day when Superman went to save Lex Luther and and.

00:36:09 Speaker 6

His lab was on.

00:36:10 Speaker 1

Fire and he blew out the lab fire.

00:36:12 Speaker 1

But at the same point caused.

00:36:13 Speaker 1

Him to lose his hair.

00:36:14 Speaker 1

And that was enough reason for him.

00:36:16 Speaker 1

To hate Superman forever and.

00:36:18 Speaker 2

Yeah, it's not organic.

00:36:20 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

00:36:20 Speaker 2

Well, especially especially in John Kents situation where they he was young, that you could have watched him grow in the next decade to have a rose gallery instead.

00:36:29

Right.

00:36:30 Speaker 2

He, you know, he decides to age him, you know, whatever the storyline is, even if it was a good story, you know, at the end of the day, you just aged the character 10 years, you've taken anything interesting and just made him another Superboy clone when you already had two different superboys and.

00:36:50 Speaker 2

You've just created yet another character who has, like you said, no, no organic background.

00:36:58 Speaker 2

To have shown in stories how this person has grown, you've just forced growth on a character that no one cared about, cares about in its current form. OK? Again, no, not no one. I'm sure there's somebody that just screamed at their microphone that said I love the character, and that's great.

00:37:14 Speaker 1

Yeah, this is the best thing for them.

00:37:16 Speaker 2

Then they're then they're writing for you. But I I, in my experience, I'm pretty sure there's a vast majority that complained about the aging when Bendis did it. And you know, it's just.

00:37:29 Speaker 2

Would rather have Jonathan Kent be the young kid who you can watch, you know, Clark and Lois raise and and team up with the young Damien, you know, and and find that be more interesting than than the current replacement of Superman, future state thing that they said they wouldn't do and then they'll end up.

00:37:48 Speaker 2

Doing it anyway well.

00:37:50 Speaker 1

At least if nothing else, Marvel hasn't yet to release the new new new Warriors. I don't know if.

00:37:57 Speaker 1

We're following that debacle, but.

00:38:00 Speaker 2

Did they cancel that already?

00:38:02 Speaker 1

It was solicited as a collected trade paperback, and then that disappeared too. So there's nothing as in the way of remnants of that around. So yeah, just kind of rumors.

00:38:15 Speaker 1

But you know.

00:38:16 Speaker 1

This yeah, 5G or whatever. The future state. Yeah, they. That was something that was like.

00:38:21 Speaker 1

They're not going to do it. They're not going to.

00:38:23 Speaker 1

So crappy did it.

00:38:24 Speaker 2

And that's, I mean, we're pretty heavy in the DC right now.

00:38:27 Speaker 2

And Marvel, Marvel has their problems, but right now they seem to have a little more control and are showing some more wisdom.

00:38:36 Speaker 2

In what they're doing with the characters now, that's not to say that they haven't also tried to expand, you know, and have 12 different Spiderman so or you know.

00:38:46 Speaker 4

Ohh yeah.

00:38:47 Speaker 2

And do whatever, but to me, DC's really, in my opinion, has never been lower in in quality.

00:38:58 Speaker 2

And excitement like no one gives a.

00:39:01 Speaker 2

No one cares at all. Or, uh, the vast majority of us who've collected for a while just don't seem that excited, at least.

00:39:11 Speaker 1

You know. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm gonna take a a cue from another podcast. This is now years ago. It was a podcast called Audio. Yeah. Comics.

00:39:22 Speaker 1

Podcast I think it's just all. Yeah, podcast.

00:39:25 Speaker 1

And they had.

00:39:25 Speaker 1

The art Baltazar, who did the art for the tiny.

00:39:29 Speaker 1

Titans and this is when the new 52 was being released.

00:39:35 Speaker 1

And people were complaining like, Oh my.

00:39:36 Speaker 1

Gosh, this new 52 is.

00:39:38 Speaker 1

Just absolutely out of garbage. I can't. Our belt is our phrase it this way.

00:39:43 Speaker 1

It's like if you like the new 52.

00:39:45 Speaker 1

Great. Buy the new 52 issues. If you don't like the new 52, there's 75 years worth of old comics and you can go back and get you know, with the other cars.

00:39:57 Speaker 1

It's. Yeah, it's.

00:39:57 Speaker 1

Like, yeah, there's. That's something true about that, cause there is like, if you don't like.

00:40:01 Speaker 1

What's out there now? Don't.

00:40:03 Speaker 1

Get it? But there's still a.

00:40:05 Speaker 1

Lot of great stuff out there. That's historically speaking that you may never have tapped into. You may never have picked up or had interest at the time.

00:40:13 Speaker 1

And now you can go back and get them.

00:40:15 Speaker 2

And that's certainly where my spending habits are now like.

00:40:17 Speaker 2

I've said before on the podcast.

00:40:19 Speaker 2

That's, you know, I'm really into back issues now that's I eBay purchased, you know, back issues all the time I'm collecting series. I've always wanted to but never, never have and that's really where my my focus is once in a while I'll look at the new rack and see something I like or interesting. You know they're they're rumored to bring back the JSA.

00:40:41 Speaker 2

And I'll get any. I'll get some JSA issues and see how it is because I love the JSA, yeah.

00:40:46 Speaker 2

And you know, there's some things that will bring me back to new Comics, and I'll try. I'll sample something. I really want to like new comics. You know, the new Legion stuff was OK. But, you know that Bendis guy again.

00:40:59

And and strikes.

00:41:00 Speaker 2

Again, strikes again and you know it's not my legion kind of thing. It was entertaining.

00:41:06 Speaker 2

But there's still my preference is is still to stuff that had a little more continuity to my to the legion that I liked.

00:41:14 Speaker 2

Growing up and that's not totally Venice's fault. He's trying something new to try and get new readers and new interest and to make money off, you know, off of his name and stuff. So I don't necessarily blame him for trying something new, cause, you know, he wants his sales up and he wouldn't. He wouldn't try something. He doesn't think people would like, you know, that's why they hire him.

00:41:36 Speaker 2

Just wasn't for me. I mean, I got every issue of the 12.

00:41:39 Speaker 2

Issues that were out there.

00:41:41 Speaker 2

And like I said, I was entertained. I collected more because the title than than what they're doing with it, but back back issues, Sir, is where it's at right now. And you know, I've never had. I probably am back almost back up to where I used to have as many comics before.

00:41:56 Speaker 2

Before I had to sell some.

00:41:58 Speaker 2

To get some money about 10 years ago. You know, I'm almost back up to the to the.

00:42:02 Speaker 2

One I had.

00:42:02 Speaker 2

Before, just just buying back issues of of things I want. So in a way it's it's good. I got more bang for my buck on some of this stuff. So and I know it's qualities.

00:42:14 Speaker 1

That's kind of what's even better is that you're not getting yourself committed.

00:42:17 Speaker 1

To a new series, only to find that by the 4th issue in it's like this is going nowhere and if anything it's going down. It's becoming worse, whereas like you go back to an old series, you're like.

You know, or somebody recommended this. I can go back and get it.

00:42:36 Speaker 1

Like if you get anything done by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips, those are fantastic. All their stuff they've been doing for.

00:42:44 Speaker 1

Those are amazing, and a friend of mine recommended those to me and I was like, yeah, OK, so I started reading this whole crap. These are absolutely brilliant. So, you know, I'm going and picking those up. I'm going back and grabbing some older.

00:42:55 Speaker 2

Yeah, that's.

00:42:57 Speaker 1

Issues. Yeah. So it's just, you know, you can now get the stuff that you know is not going to waste your money. That's actually enjoyable. And in some ways it's kind of nice that there there's a finite number of them, meaning that because they went to the new 52 or they did the rebirth or they did whatever it is, whatever.

00:43:18 Speaker 1

You know, triggered it, you know, like uh, I wanted to get John Burns run on Fantastic Four, let's say, and it's like, OK, well, you know that John Byrne isn't still doing Fantastic Four.

00:43:28 Speaker 1

You're you're only gonna get so.

00:43:29 Speaker 1

I mean, she's and then you're done. And then?

00:43:31 Speaker 2

And that's actually did that. I did go back and get every single issue with John Byrne 2 years ago and I have his entire run. I haven't read it.

I actually did what you just said. That's because I know it's good and people say it's good.

00:43:45 Speaker 1

Yeah, and that that's what really helps you know. I mean that's a great way to collect because it's like, you know, you're not making a lifetime.

00:43:51 Speaker 1

Commit so you know.

00:43:52 Speaker 2

I want to get all the assignments in.

00:43:53 Speaker 2

Store I want to.

00:43:54 Speaker 1

Get that right. Yeah, that was a great.

00:43:56 Speaker 1

Run and then.

00:43:57 Speaker 1

Continued as a writer, but Sal would be.

00:44:00 Speaker 1

Comma did the art after that and that's still continuing to be good. But again, you know you get recommendations just like that. You know recommendations of like Oh yeah, that was a great series. You should pick that up. It's like, yeah, you're not getting recommendations on getting things. Now. I can't. I've not heard anybody and you know, at the various comic shops, I've not seen people going like ohh man. Have you been reading the last five issues.

00:44:20 Speaker 1

This it's like, no, nothing like that's ever been brought up.

00:44:25 Speaker 2

If anything, I'm here in the opposite like Ohh Spiderman really sucks.

00:44:29 Speaker 1

Exactly this. It's lost all of its luster, and for such a a medium that is, you know, the potentials there, it's like it's just so sad to see where it's at. The current, you know, state of affairs on it. But you know, and then it's also very evident. It's not just.

00:44:47 Speaker 1

Our grumpy old man.

00:44:48 Speaker 1

Opinion. I don't know if you've seen, but for the last several months.

00:44:51 Speaker 1

In a row.

00:44:53 Speaker 1

The top 20 graphic novels is the category that falls under the the top 20 graphic novels sold in the United States. Not a single one is a Marvel comic, not a single one is a DC comic. They're all Japanese manga books.

00:45:06 Speaker 2

Yeah, I've I've heard rumor.

Either couple things have happened. Either the manga stuff.

00:45:13 Speaker 1

Is so insanely.

00:45:14 Speaker 1

Popular that it, you know, just by.

00:45:17 Speaker 1

Being that much more popular than anything ever, ever, you know, and Marvel and DC are just as popular as always been. But this manga, I think just crept out of nowhere and has outpaced.

00:45:26 Speaker 1

Us all or.

00:45:28 Speaker 1

The Marvel and DC stuff has just lost interest and lost a fan base to a point where you know any readers out there are like, you know what? I'd rather just read the manga.

00:45:36 Speaker 1

And they've got more engaging stories, like my hero academia, that's like.

00:45:41 Speaker 1

That's that's superheroes. I mean, that is the bread and butter of DC Comics yet. And DC and Marvel Comics. And yet they just that thing is doing so much better than DC and Marvel combined.

00:45:53 Speaker 2

Yeah. One of my sons.

00:45:55 Speaker 2

Loves my, you know, academia, whatever you just said. You know, I don't. I don't. I haven't looked at it yet, right.

00:46:03 Speaker 2

Like that. But he loves it and he's really into anime and you know the other ones would rather watch the movies than read anything, because there's really nothing that interests them once in a while. My let's see how do I categorize them without using their names? My second born.

And you know, he's he really likes Miles Morales. Spiderman. That's great and he'll pick up comics when he goes to the store with me and he's a Hulk fan. But other than that, there's not much they'd rather just watch the movies. My oldest son, he he liked early Teen Titans stuff. But other than that, you know.

00:46:44 Speaker 2

Hasn't really gotten into anything.

00:46:46 Speaker 2

And then my youngest kids are too young right now, but they're big Spiderman fans. But again, they it's not like they're reading the comics. They're just they watch cartoons or something. It's just they have no interest in current modern day comics other than, you know, the one that likes anime.

00:47:02 Speaker 1

And that seems to be the kind of the case overall. You know, like I said, the couple little comic.

00:47:06 Speaker 1

Cops around here that you go to.

00:47:09 Speaker 1

You know, it's like they there's no longer that sign that says, like, unaccompanied children are not allow.

00:47:15 Speaker 1

Cloud it's because there's no kids coming into the comics. There's no need for that poster anymore, because there's just no one under the age of 30 or 40 coming into the comic shops these days. There's no point. So yeah, it's it's it's. I wouldn't say it's sad. It's just the state of where comics.

Few industry, you know, things that ageing up different technology and different media have kind of replaced it, but then they've also shot themselves in the foot, you know.

00:47:44 Speaker 2

Yeah, I think they've done it. Then I've done. They've done it to themselves. I don't think it's the fans that have.

00:47:49 Speaker 2

Changed. I think they've lost sight of what the fans want and they they've cut strings to the people who have the funds and who have been with their loyal customers for so long and they're trying to get new readers without keeping their old readers which and they're getting neither one like they haven't.

00:48:07 Speaker 2

They're they're not getting enough readers.

00:48:09 Speaker 2

To to.

00:48:11 Speaker 2

Supplement or to replace the people that they just disassociated with by by not caring about it. Yeah.

00:48:18 Speaker 1

Keep disenfranchising. Yep. And actually, in some cases, just completely chasing them.

00:48:22 Speaker 2

Off, right. Yeah, yeah. Is this the grumpy old man? Get off my lawn episode.

00:48:28 Speaker 1

Yes, it's it's definitely well. But at the same point, it's.

00:48:32 Speaker 1

Not all all about.

00:48:33 Speaker 1

The gloom and doom cause I.

00:48:35 Speaker 1

Mean to, you know, we still love.

00:48:36 Speaker 1

The comments we still love.

00:48:37 Speaker 1

The media and if we?

00:48:38 Speaker 4

Don't have the passion for comics.

00:48:41 Speaker 1

And that you know something that we grew up on, you know we wouldn't. You know, there's a difference between grumpy and then just, you know, disheartened by the current state of something we we are passionate about.

00:48:52 Speaker 2

Well, that's true. And you know, you had your what, how to save economic industry thing for me, just save the comic industry and get get enough readers back into the into the cycle. What you have to do is.

00:49:06 Speaker 2

You have to lower the comic book prices and I don't care if you you use less quality paper or less quality. So yeah.

00:49:14 Speaker 1

Get outside ads. No one. Charles Atlas had his page up. Go be the whip at the beach or whatever.

00:49:20 Speaker 2

Start advertising, but you get you what I just said. And then you also get these comics everywhere you can possibly imagine. You don't cut out the comic book store.

00:49:29 Speaker 2

Because they they still have a a big place and that's where I'll still get my comics. But you have to get cheap comics in the aisles of of any grocery store, get a spinner rack and every gas station and just have, you know, even if it's, you know, you reduce your.

00:49:41 Speaker 1

7 elevens.

00:49:49 Speaker 2

Page count on those and you put them for a dollar and you get, you know, 15 pages of comic. You get something that little kids can grab with their parents or, you know, dollar fifty if you know.

00:50:00 Speaker 2

Whatever. Give, give them something that they can access and they can read and you don't care what happens to it when it's gone, cause you know, as a kid, I tore my pages up and read them, but they weren't, you know, $6 apiece. And, you know, you didn't lose sight of of the story. Like, just give them.

00:50:21 Speaker 2

Something to find wherever they go, cause you have all these gas stations that have.

00:50:26 Speaker 2

Other things, why can't they sell comics again? Get it in the, get it in the hands of everybody? You can instead of just exclusively comic stores, let you know. Let them be the high quality stuff and and people will will congregate to there. And then that's the affordable, accessible. Find out what people want.

00:50:27

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00:50:47 Speaker 2

And stop rebooting every 30 seconds and you'll get people who.

00:50:53 Speaker 2

Care about these characters again, because that's half my brothers. I don't care about these characters because I don't care about these.

00:51:00 Speaker 2

Because, like, they're not interesting for me. And then you'll see, maybe, I don't know if it's too late for that, but you might see a.

One of the few comic series that I am actually picking up and I wouldn't even.

00:51:12 Speaker 1

Call it a comic book series.

00:51:14 Speaker 1

Is that?

00:51:15 Speaker 1

Marvel and DC's kind of jumped on it.

00:51:18 Speaker 1

A little later, but they.

00:51:20 Speaker 1

They're doing likewise, but Marvel's got their series called True.

00:51:24 Speaker 1

Beaver and DC calls it Dollar Comics, and then I think some others have different names for theirs, but.

00:51:31 Speaker 1

They're on good quality paper zero ads.

00:51:34 Speaker 1

Cost a buck and it's.

00:51:35 Speaker 1

Like and, they're totally random issues.

00:51:37 Speaker 1

There's usually something that's like tying into like, you know, upcoming movie. So let's say it's like Ant, man and the wasp movies coming out.

00:51:45 Speaker 1

You know the, you know Doctor Strange movie, and it's gonna have these types of characters in it or Wanda vision. And then they did a bunch of like comics that were reprinting classic issues under that true believers header of like, you know, the first time, you know, Scarlet Witch and Vision met.

00:52:05 Speaker 1

For issue one of Scarlett election Vision miniseries, and it was just, you know, key issues, but they were totally random in some regards as well because it's like it wasn't like ohh, it was fantastic. Four number five and then the next one is number six and next one is #7. The next one it's not that at all. It's just.

00:52:22 Speaker 1

But it kind of brings back my childhood of just grabbing. Hey, that was cool on the shelf and getting it home and reading it. And so that on its own was what I liked. That's what I've been picking up lately. In fact, I just last time I was in the shop, I wound up picking up 303035 issues of the the true believers.

00:52:42 Speaker 1

Run just because it had new or different. You know titles that I hadn't read.

00:52:48 Speaker 1

And just give me a sampler pack. It's kind of like the Forrest Gump box of chocolates. I mean, there's definitely something there getting them back into the stores. I know Walmart is carrying some. They've got a sidekick next to their collectibles of a I don't know the name of the publisher, but they've got they've got.

00:53:07 Speaker 1

A whole like.

00:53:08 Speaker 1

Display case of single issues.

00:53:11 Speaker 1

And then in the impulse aisle, they have a whole section of like 3 issues bagged for, I think, like 6 bucks or something like that. And so that way you've got a, you know, kind of random assortment of issues.

00:53:23 Speaker 2

Well, you know, I did buy a bag issued. Was it from Walmart? It must have been a couple weeks ago just to see what it was. I think it got two Star Wars comics and and something else. It was interesting. Like I used to get comics back in the olden days.

You know, must have been a good deal.

00:53:40 Speaker 2

Or something like those. The Whitman Comics in the bag.

00:53:43 Speaker 1

Ohh yeah, I could never figure that one out.

00:53:47 Speaker 2

Just the reprints or not. They weren't reprints, but they just had the the Whitman on the side rather than.

00:53:54 Speaker 1

The DC logo.

00:53:55 Speaker 2

DC logo, but I slept. Probably all of the ones that I bought, but you know, it was interesting. Ohh no, it was that big. Lots Big Lots had a set of three issues. Bagged.

00:54:06 Speaker 2

And the brief.

00:54:07 Speaker 2

Of them, what was it? I got a Star Wars Chewbacca #1 spider Gwen number one and something else.

00:54:15

That was you.

00:54:16 Speaker 2

Know some Marvel bag of comics, old man like Logan, True Believer issue. It was just it seemed to get comics that way again, you know, like the mystery bag. You don't know what the middle one.

Really cool to get those because it just.

00:54:32 Speaker 1

Gives you that sense of wonder. Again. It makes it exciting to pick up a comic.

00:54:37 Speaker 1

And you also don't feel like you're out that much. You know, you're not like going well. That was $40. I'll never get back. It was like, no, it's only a couple bucks here, there or whatever it was. But, you know, just some truly random stuff. Yeah.

00:54:49 Speaker 2

Attorneys comic store, they do like random bags and it was 10 bucks or 20 bucks. You get 20 issues or 30 issues or something. And I've always wanted to do that because just to see what was in it.

00:55:02 Speaker 2

And I've joked with them about it, but I'm always kind of reluctant to because I think, oh, I'll either have them all or not all. But you know, it'll be stuff I didn't want. Anyway. They they sell out every time like people are.

00:55:14 Speaker 2

Buying them so.

00:55:15 Speaker 2

You know, people want people want mystery and random.

00:55:18 Speaker 1

Yeah, because it it it gives them an excuse to buy something.

00:55:22 Speaker 1

In the wonder what's in it, it's like that Schrodinger's cat you know. Is it alive or is it dead? You don't know until you open, but it has that level of, like, you don't know what's in it. So there's that.

00:55:32 Speaker 1

Mystery. Usually there's like, you know, I'll pay 20 bucks, but it's like a $40 value. So then you don't feel like you're really out. And usually it hits a sweet spot that it's not like like when Loot Crate came out. You know, when it initially started, I think it was like $20 a box. It's like, that's not too bad. I can do $20.00. But when it's like.

00:55:53 Speaker 1

$70.00 a mystery box. You're like 70 bucks. Do I really want to drop $70.00 on a mystery? It's like, no.

00:56:00 Speaker 1

You know that impulse money?

00:56:02 Speaker 1

It just isn't there like that.

00:56:04 Speaker 2

Yeah, and usually get a cool T-shirt and then a bunch of crap you didn't want anyway.

00:56:09 Speaker 1

Yes. Yeah. So that, that's there's a lot of really great things. If you look for them and it still kind of keeps the the hobby alive. Like I said, you know, those dollar comics that you can get, the $0.25 bin is like oh.

00:56:22 Speaker 1

I I actually had to tell my son not to go through it because there's, like, there's zero order and these things are just completely random issues and you'll, you know, if you find one, you'll never find another one in that series.

00:56:37 Speaker 2

Well, your kids, do they collect at all?

00:56:39 Speaker 1

Not no, my my daughter has zero collections as much as I tried. Yeah, well, here's younger.

00:56:47 Speaker 1

Hey, what about these?

00:56:48 Speaker 1

Ohh what about these? You like these? Yeah. Like.

00:56:50 Speaker 1

Those OK then. But it never stuck.

00:56:53 Speaker 1

But my son? Yeah, he's he's maybe on the other end of the spectrum. Whatever my daughter lacks. My son has inherited to the point of an addiction where he's at my level of, like, you know, if it's got, if it falls into this bucket, I have to have it. So Lego Batman and Doctor Who if it's Lego Batman, he's gotta get it. If it's Doctor Who he's got to get it.

I have a couple Dr. new things.

00:57:17 Speaker 1

Oh yeah, you'd love.

00:57:17 Speaker 1

That, but that's, you know, but as far as comics go, he'll pick up. He just picked up a comic we went to see loop on the 3rd in theaters, the CGI movie that they had just done. And then we went to the comic shop and after at the comic shop I had gotten.

00:57:34 Speaker 1

Some toys at a comic shop, but then he picked up an actual issue and it's just it's a continuation of the Tim Burton Batman.

00:57:44 Speaker 2

Ohh yeah Batman right?

00:57:46 Speaker 6

Yeah, exactly.

00:57:48 Speaker 1

So he picked that up. That's.

00:57:49 Speaker 1

That's kind of cool. You know the old.

00:57:51 Speaker 1

Michael Keaton, Batman.

00:57:53 Speaker 2

But he doesn't have a collection of comics.

00:57:55 Speaker 1

No, he's got some random things he he was kind of starting to collect things he had. I think it was like the new 52 run of Batman lent it to a cousin and then the cousin just kind of like dropped out of the picture. And so he lost all those issues. That was like the one thing he goes that was my first, like, I had a complete.

00:58:15 Speaker 1

Front of things that you see is like heartbroken back in that era. It's like, yeah, sorry kid.

00:58:21 Speaker 2

We've all had cousins that have destroyed certain things, you know.

00:58:26 Speaker 2

I I had a cousin who stole my Richie Rich comics. He had that he came over one time. I was like a Christmas party or whatever.

00:58:36 Speaker 2

Was a bunch of.

00:58:37 Speaker 2

Them. And he he had a cast on or something and he would shove issues in the cast and walked home with or, you know, go.

00:58:43 Speaker 2

Home with them eventually.

00:58:44 Speaker 1

Ohh mercy.

00:58:46 Speaker 2

Eventually, his his dad caught him and he had to call and apologize. But you know, they were gone already.

00:58:53 Speaker 1

I mean that's that's like some serious effort. I mean that's like cartel level of smuggling.

00:58:59 Speaker 2

Yeah, and it was.

00:59:00 Speaker 2

The Richie Rich comics come on.

00:59:01 Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean, that's tough choice, right? I mean, you've got, you know, first appearances of, you know, major players and major characters or Richie.

00:59:10 Speaker 1

Rich. Yeah, you're.

00:59:11 Speaker 1

Going to go for the the double.

00:59:12 Speaker 1

R's right out of the gate.

00:59:13 Speaker 2

Right.

00:59:14 Speaker 2

Stole my first appearance of of dollar or something, you know?

00:59:16 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, I can't remember even half those characters. There was, like, man, yeah, there's a that whole Harvey comics. They had Casper, Richie rich. They had all these other character hot stuff. Wendy, all these characters. And then almost overnight just vanished.

00:59:36 Speaker 2

Yeah, really.

00:59:36 Speaker 1

Whatever it happened, because they they did have.

00:59:38 Speaker 1

Like it wasn't just Richie Rich.

00:59:40 Speaker 1

As a single cover or.

00:59:41 Speaker 1

You know, and he.

00:59:42 Speaker 1

Might have been the first character to have, like a million issues every month directly related to that character. I don't know if he did or if Archie did, but I know like, you know, Archie had several titles going on. Betty and Veronica and stuff like that. That was kind of more of the Archie verse, but this was just like Richie Rich is dollars Richie Riches.

01:00:02 Speaker 1

You know, pennies and Dimes or whatever. You know, they had a bunch of different titles every month under that for that character.

01:00:08 Speaker 2

Yeah, apparently I was buying everything under the sun cause I mean Ida.

01:00:13 Speaker 2

Huge collection of those. It amazes me looking back, what I what I did have and whatever the way I think now it was just this and this and this. But no, I really I I had a pretty good variety of of stuff that I was collecting and barely remember now because.

01:00:25 Speaker 2

I'm old but.

01:00:26 Speaker 1

You know, yeah. Some of the stuff just kind of you, you, you buy it, you put it away and then you come back to. It's like, when did I ever pick this up?

01:00:33 Speaker 1

I don't remember ever getting this, but somehow it's here now.

01:00:36 Speaker 4

Right it I think.

01:00:38 Speaker 1

There was a point where you look at your own collection and you think like you're going to, you know, a a comic shop on its own. Because like all my look, all these issues I've got, you know, and you've forgotten most.

01:00:49 Speaker 1

Of them, it's like I'm just going to go down and look at my comic collection and and pretend I'm at a store like oh, I can use this series and just grab that series out-of-the-box and bring it back up and give.

01:01:01 Speaker 1

It a read again.

01:01:02 Speaker 2

Put it in a fake bag and then give.

01:01:04 Speaker 4

It, yeah.

01:01:05 Speaker 2

Give it to your wife. You know the money and.

01:01:11 Speaker 4

What a deal, man less than cover.

01:01:13 Speaker 2

Price $0.75.

01:01:18 Speaker 1

The bargain you get to that point you because you've forgotten how many you've picked up or how many issues or you have read that series in a long time. So it's good to kind of go back and review again. I came across the other day that the 1960s.

01:01:34 Speaker 1

UK show called the.

01:01:35 Speaker 1

Prisoner DC counts did a prestige 4 like 3 issue miniseries Prestige format mini series of the prisoner, and I'ma go. When did I ever buy?

01:01:45 Speaker 1

These, you know, I don't think I would even seen that full series at that point. I had. I knew of it, but why would I have bought a comic series based on the a British TV show that I had never watched? Yeah.

01:01:59 Speaker 1

But apparently I.

01:01:59 Speaker 1

Have all three issues.

01:02:00 Speaker 2

Yeah, I just, I just recently bought.

01:02:03 Speaker 2

The DC DC.

01:02:05 Speaker 2

Came out with the Judge Dredd comics back in the night in mid 90s and they did two titles, Judge Dredd, Legends of the Law.

01:02:15 Speaker 2

And then they just did a a Judge Dread title, and I had a couple issues previously, but I went into another comic shop last weekend and they had the uh, like, almost the full run for like, a dollar apiece, whatever. So I bought a bunch, started reading those, and they're actually pretty good, I mean.

01:02:31 Speaker 2

Not. Not as good as it the old, the British.

Yeah, but it's still pretty good and some of it was.

01:02:39 Speaker 2

Done by the those same people. So you know it's but I forgot DC had the license for a while. It was when the first Stallone movie.

01:02:46 Speaker 2

Came out. Ohh man, I am the law.

01:02:48 Speaker 2

Right, definitely not as good as the last Judge Dredd movie.

01:02:52 Speaker 1

That was brilliant.

01:02:53 Speaker 2

That was I I bought that a couple weekends ago and it was like 5 bucks on some digital platform and I I got to own that. I haven't seen it in a little while. So I bought that. Yeah, that's excellent movie.

01:03:05 Speaker 2

I wish they did that one.

01:03:06 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, doubt they will. But yeah, Karl urban, that dude just vanishes in the character.

01:03:13 Speaker 2

He wants to do another one. He's just.

01:03:14 Speaker 2

Trying to find out who will do it.

01:03:16 Speaker 1

Well, I mean, he and Ron Perlman.

01:03:19 Speaker 1

Who wanted to do?

01:03:20 Speaker 1

The Hellboy 3. Instead, they did that.

01:03:22 Speaker 1

Terrible Hellboy movie and.

01:03:24 Speaker 2

Yeah, I haven't seen that one. And I I probably won't. So I I liked the the 2nd Hellboy Ron Brown movie.

01:03:32 Speaker 1

Yeah, and which is really an oddity when you think, because usually an origin story helps keep you focused on the main character, and then any sequels are like OK, we already know who the main character is. Show us, you know.

01:03:44 Speaker 1

Or establish either a new aspects of the back story or.

01:03:49 Speaker 1

Introduce a new villain that's gonna be really intriguing and but that like you said. Yeah, that one actually was really well.

01:03:54 Speaker 2

Done. Yeah, I liked it. I liked it.

01:03:56 Speaker 2

Better than first one Golden Army.

01:03:56 Speaker 1

Yep, like the Empire Strikes Back.

01:03:59 Speaker 2

I think it was.

01:04:00 Speaker 1

Yeah, but the little robots and ohh was good. Yeah. And Ron Perlman was.

01:04:03 Speaker 2

Yeah, we'll only see that one.

01:04:06 Speaker 1

Perfect for that character too.

01:04:08 Speaker 2

Yeah, he really was David. Who would they harboring?

01:04:11 Speaker 4

Harbor something.

01:04:13 Speaker 2

Which I like the I just don't.

01:04:15 Speaker 1

So yeah, it's disappointing, you know, cause it's like there's Guillermo del Toro who did the the previous two movies, obviously knew the characters had a very distinct look, and it it really captured the the feel of those comics and.

01:04:32 Speaker 1

My opinion and that mythos and this one just like, yeah, we're just going to go with a complete, you know, gorefest or just didn't. It didn't capture singular tone throughout it just looked like wow, that's.

01:04:46 Speaker 2

What was minola in like? Was he on board on that one or is?

01:04:53 Speaker 2

It at this point.

01:04:53 Speaker 1

Yeah, apparently that and how much of this is.

01:04:57 Speaker 1

Hearsay. But he and del Toro had.

01:05:00 Speaker 1

A falling out?

01:05:01 Speaker 1

And so after the second movie or something happened, I think Pan's Labyrinth or.

01:05:06 Speaker 1

Something kicked in and they kind of had a little falling out and when the option came up to do a third movie, you know, Manuela wasn't on board with it. And then he was a the the creative consultant for this movie and had his full, like blessings like endorsement. And it's like, ohh, so it was like.

01:05:27 Speaker 1

He guy who created the character wrote the character and drew the character and it was the worst of the three.

01:05:41 Speaker 1

I will say in kind of going on to another, you know aspect when I'd go to the San Diego Comic Con and this was kind of a sad state of affairs too. But walking the show, all the toy and the industry booths were just crammed to the point where you could barely walk through those aisles and you're like, Oh my gosh, I gotta get away from all these people I need.

01:06:00 Speaker 1

A brief moment where I can kind of.

01:06:03 Speaker 2

Like get away from.

01:06:04 Speaker 1

Everybody and collect my thoughts and it's like, you know what, I'm going to head over to where they sell.

01:06:08 Speaker 1

The comic books and.

01:06:10 Speaker 1

Sure enough, you go over to where they sell.

01:06:11 Speaker 1

Comic books. Nobody's there.

01:06:14 Speaker 1

You can walk around. It's like ohh good. I needed this. This less crowded, yeah.

01:06:21 Speaker 2

Sad, because I mean, I used to collect everything I used to have DC figure toy. You know, toys with the universe. I used to collect the whole run of those. I'd have anything I could.

Yeah. Anything I could grab superhero related. And I went the opposite way.

01:06:37 Speaker 2

Like I'll I'll keep my comics because that's where I started from.

01:06:41 Speaker 2

And I'll get rid of all these toys that just I need shelves to display them and all these people are collecting Funko pops. And I think I have like 3, you know, total. And that's almost too too many. You know, it's like I don't.

I just can't. I don't have one. I mean, I live in a smaller house. I have five children. Something's going to break. Anyway, I don't really have.

01:07:06 Speaker 2

I don't have a display area.

01:07:09 Speaker 2

You know, and I just really don't want them. Like, it's just it's just fluttered to me now where my books. At least I can page through them and you know, flash back to when I was a kid or enjoy new stories now and I just don't. I just don't have desire for anything but the books for the most part.

01:07:28 Speaker 1

You know that makes perfect sense, you know.

01:07:31 Speaker 1

It's just, you know, you can kind of keep that a little bit, not necessarily under lock and key, but it's like you know as a kid you play with your.

01:07:38 Speaker 1

Toys. Now they're just displayed.

01:07:40 Speaker 1

And you know, whereas comics, they're nice and neat, organized and you can put them away and they don't. Yeah, they don't demand or all that space and you don't have to worry about like ohh crud. Is the cat going to get to it.

01:07:51 Speaker 1

Is the kid going to get to it? You know, it's like, Nope, it's safe.

01:07:54 Speaker 1

We're good.

01:07:55 Speaker 2

Yeah, they're not interested in comics, so that's OK.

01:07:58 Speaker 2

They're never going to look at mine. I'm never going to come home and.

01:08:01 Speaker 1

Well, I mean, you know, prime example when you know I was working for car diecast company designing those Johnny Lightning cars we got. I don't know how many of things called White Lightnings and they were crap. They were kind of like limited edition like the first round of the mold right out of the tools and the factory.

01:08:21 Speaker 1

The first, like 1000, were called White Lightnings and.

01:08:24 Speaker 1

So they were like the best they.

01:08:26 Speaker 1

Could be because there was the.

01:08:27 Speaker 1

First ones out.

01:08:27 Speaker 1

Of the tool as you continue to make.

01:08:29 Speaker 1

Something out of that tool it gets.

I had scores of those things, and let's say.

01:08:37 Speaker 1

A A giant lightning car may have gone for like $3 at that time.

01:08:41 Speaker 1

These things were going for like, you know, $300 or something like it was ridiculous that difference because people, the collector market.

01:08:47 Speaker 1

Was huge. Yeah, I came home.

01:08:49 Speaker 1

One day and my son had opened every single one of those, and as soon as they're open, then obviously you know you can't. They're yeah, they're worthless.

01:08:59 Speaker 6

So I was like.

01:09:00 Speaker 2

You're like that was your college fund? Yep.

01:09:05 Speaker 1

And every day after that.

01:09:07 Speaker 1

I wake him up in the morning.

01:09:08 Speaker 1

Going white lightnings.

You know, I mean, to your point, comics. Yeah. You, you bag bored and then slide them inside of another box. Yeah. So it's like.

01:09:23 Speaker 1

Your own personal Fort Knox of you know, collectibles.

01:09:28 Speaker 2

Yeah, we all have those kind of stories. I do remember as a kid.

01:09:31 Speaker 2

I'd hang out with my friend. His name was Rob, and he lived in the upstairs of the house and it had a kind.

01:09:41 Speaker 2

Of an open.

01:09:42 Speaker 2

Space area where right by the stairs, there's just these shelves and and then his bedroom.

01:09:49 Speaker 2

Was a little beyond that, and his dad had a bunch of models he had as a kid.

01:09:56 Speaker 2

You know, like you put together and all the stuff or just display it on this shelf right by the stairs. And one time we were over there and we had a pillow fight and, like, I ducked a pillow and the pillow just smashed into the the models and all the models fell down the stairs and shattered.

Like you could just as a kid, even that I felt like, oh, I am so dad, I just shattered this. I shattered this old man's collection.

01:10:30 Speaker 1

Whole childhood is ruined.

01:10:32 Speaker 2

Right. And it's just, it's like and you're just and, you know, I've had things destroyed by my children too. It's not like I I don't understand.

01:10:42 Speaker 2

Yeah, but just like, oh, I just crushed this man stream. Just like if I only, I would have just got the pillow in the face.

01:10:49 Speaker 1

You know, I've been, yeah. Saved everybody. But it was kind of, you know, like you said there is, you know, something about the collectibles that you want it you.

01:10:58 Speaker 1

Want to showcase?

01:10:59 Speaker 1

It cause you spent the money on it. You want it to be like.

01:11:02 Speaker 1

Look at what I have.

01:11:04 Speaker 1

But at the same point, it's like I don't want you looking at it that closely.

01:11:09 Speaker 2

Right.

01:11:10 Speaker 1

So it's that sweet spot.

01:11:12 Speaker 2

Well, yeah, and you get to the point where you think.

01:11:14 Speaker 2

OK. Do I keep it in the box and have it untouched or do I take it out-of-the-box and enjoy it more? But suddenly the value of it?

01:11:25 Speaker 2

Play that and then.

01:11:27 Speaker 2

Do I really care? No, I didn't, really.

01:11:28 Speaker 2

Care but you.

01:11:29 Speaker 2

It's just. Where do you put the value on it? Is it the display? Is it owning it is.

01:11:34 Speaker 2

That being able to read the comic, you know, or do you are you putting it on your wall?

01:11:39 Speaker 2

As a trophy, you know?

01:11:41 Speaker 4

Yeah, well, what's what's?

01:11:42 Speaker 1

Your thoughts on the the comic, whatever it's called, C, GE or CCE or whatever it is.

01:11:50 Speaker 1

CGC yeah, where it's like comics grading company or.

01:11:53 Speaker 1

Something like that.

01:11:53 Speaker 1

Where you know they they basically hermetically seal the comics, so it's never seen by mortal eyes.

01:12:01 Speaker 2

Well, first, I don't own a single graded comic, I.

01:12:06 Speaker 2

Overall, so clearly I I could care less whether I'd grade anything or not, but as I get older.

01:12:12 Speaker 2

And I have some more valuable comments I I think my opinion of it has changed to where I can see why people do it.

01:12:20 Speaker 2

It's not like you're reading this comic all the time. There is a part of a joy where you can open up an old comic and read it, but they have so much opportunity now to read it in other avenues and digitally to where if you just want it for the value like you're just a collector. Sure, I could totally understand just getting it.

01:12:41 Speaker 2

Rate it if you're a reader, I can understand where you want it graded, and then you have it in some other form to read like I understand.

01:12:49 Speaker 2

That to so I my opinion has changed over like I would I would have never got upgraded because I've I read everything I and there's if I get this sealed, I will never be able to read this and then I'll be confused because I won't what will happen and issue one. I can't read it now. And now I have to jump to issue 2 and.

01:13:07 Speaker 2

I'll be so confused.

01:13:09 Speaker 2

Because I apparently I'm an idiot and can't grasp. You know what happens after.

01:13:15 Speaker 2

But that you know that that has changed since I got older and I have some valuable ones I thought, oh, that'd be cool to have this graded.

01:13:22 Speaker 2

I still haven't done it, of course, but it's such a market. It's such a racket to get it graded though. But I can see why people do it. It's probably just as addicting to get them that way than any other.

01:13:33 Speaker 2

Way you know people.

01:13:34 Speaker 2

Will just. That's the way they have to have it and that's great if that's what you collect and stuff. But I I personally.

01:13:40 Speaker 2

Like to open them up.

01:13:41 Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. And it's tough because, I mean, you bought a thing and I mean, that's intentionally for you.

01:13:48 Speaker 1

To just set aside and never look at again. And then I've heard of people who've gone through that process multiple times to get it regraded again and again and again because of the fact that, like, well, they said there was a crease in Page 5, but since they pressed it and put it into this thing that pressed that crease out.

01:14:08 Speaker 1

So now instead of it being a 8.9, I'm going to have it regraded and this time it's 9.0 and I'm going to get it regraded again. And now it's 9.2 I'm going to.

01:14:20 Speaker 1

Get it? And you're.

01:14:21 Speaker 1

Like holy crap, how much money do you?

01:14:23 Speaker 1

Oak just to get it up, literally decimal points.

01:14:26 Speaker 2

Right monetarily value. Is it from an 8.9 to 9.2 you know, to make you want to spend that money?

01:14:33 Speaker 2

To like, are you going to resell it later?

01:14:37 Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean there is something about saying like, hey, I've got this issue, but to say I've got it at this issue at this grade. You know this quality it's like.

01:14:46 Speaker 1

I don't know. I'm not there. Wouldn't mind you.

01:14:49 Speaker 1

Know, but I just you know.

01:14:50 Speaker 2

Sure. I mean, yeah, if I had a ton of money, I'd probably do it more often. I'm not saying that people who do it are.

01:14:57 Speaker 2

All right. I think that wraps up the show for today. Thanks for downloading and.

01:15:02 Speaker 2

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much. We will get to our main topic maybe next time eventually. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to contact us, it's. And This is why I love comics@gmail.com. We're on the Twitter. And for some reason, I don't like saying the Twitter name, but it'll be in the show notes.

01:15:09 Speaker 1

Roundabout ways.

01:15:21 Speaker 2

And we're on Facebook. It's. And This is why I Love Comics podcast. We appreciate all of you for listen.

01:15:27 Speaker 2

Let us know what you think. Give us a review, subscribe to the channel.

01:15:30 Speaker 2

Are on every place that plays podcasts that you can think of.

01:15:36 Speaker 1

If you want a podcast, we've got it somewhere, somehow. Get to it.

01:15:39 Speaker 2

We're there. Get off my lawn.

01:15:42 Speaker 1

Back in my day, we didn't have them there podcast. Listen.

01:15:45 Speaker 2

We had to.

01:15:46 Speaker 2

To it with a tin can and a string.

01:15:48 Speaker 1

We just had funny voices in our.

01:15:50 Speaker 4

Head. That's right.

01:15:51 Speaker 4

That's all we had to.

01:15:51

We didn't even.

01:15:52 Speaker 2

Listen to we just talked to it to ourselves.

01:15:55 Speaker 1

Wasn't strange back then. Everybody done did it.

01:15:59 Speaker 2

Thanks again for Thunder chicken for letting me play their music.

01:16:03 Speaker 2

They are awesome.

01:16:04 Speaker 2

Them you should go check them out on Spotify. I have put their link to Spotify in the show notes, so check it out. Give them a listen and enjoy it. Tell them that you heard their music on our podcast. Think that's it for now so far and This is why I love comics. I'm.

01:16:21 Speaker 2

Andy and this.

01:16:22 Speaker 2

Is Michael. We'll see you next time.

01:16:25 Speaker 3

And your supple chest is on me. Help surround me and your face is in between age and intimacy.

01:16:30 Speaker 3

And your.

01:16:41 Speaker 3

And I would give you everything if I owned.

01:16:48 Speaker 3

Everything as your tears bleed.

01:16:52 Speaker 3

All my thoughts go down.

01:17:06 Speaker 1

So how's that Wonder Woman we're talking about?

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