Pine: Is it Medicine?

'Tis the season! Pine trees are everywhere! From vitamin C to turpentine (yes, the paint thinner!), pine trees give us a lot to talk about. Listen in as Tina & Leah chat about the uses and cautions of the ubiquitous pine tree in this holiday minisode. And don't forget... hit those 5 stars and send this episode to someone you think would enjoy it! Thanks for listening!!

Memorial Sloan-Kettering's summary of pine bark
A lovely read on the medicinal uses of pine (and a recipe)
The science behind Forest Bathing- what it does, how it does it
Pine essential oil components induce sleep (technical paper)
Pycnogenol: WebMD's take on it
Turpentine's history in medicine

Transcript

Leah: 0:00

Hey Tina, hi Leo. This is our second in our holiday mini episodes, also known as mini-soads.

Tina: 0:07

Yeah, so short and sweet, to the point, to the point, with some conversation in between, some informalities. Yeah, it's not like a lecture.

Leah: 0:18

So we are talking about things that kind of remind us of this holiday season that we're in, and today we're talking about pine yeah, pine trees and you might have one in the room right now.

Tina: 0:30

Who knows, you might or have one outside, or, if you're walking, maybe you are breathing in the scent of pine as we speak.

Leah: 0:38

Yeah, and so this was interesting because, I mean, I did do a deep dive, but there's a lot about pine. I didn't know.

Tina: 0:44

Mm-hmm.

Leah: 0:45

Because I don't Like what, like all of it.

Tina: 0:48

Like all of it. I'm Dr Tina Kaser and, as Lea likes to say, I'm the sciencey one, and I'm Dr Lea Sherman and I'm the Cancer Insider, and we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care, but we're not your doctors. This is for education, entertainment and informational purposes only.

Leah: 1:08

Do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor.

Tina: 1:13

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own.

Leah: 1:19

Welcome to the Cancer Pod.

Tina: 1:37

Okay, so for clarity, we're going to talk about pine because it is the season, but neither of us really reach for pine per se as a supplement.

Leah: 1:46

No, no, and I think of when I think of pine, like I've had like pine bitters before, which is kind of interesting yeah, that's a very Portland-y thing, yeah, and I think of pine as a scent, so I guess as a herbal medicine, like as an aromatherapy. But I don't use it as aromatherapy, it just is naturally, you know. But yeah, so traditionally pine was used. Their needles were used as a tea, was used for cough fever, colds, sinus and lung congestion and it was also used as a diuretic, Really good for that.

Tina: 2:24

Yeah, for the colds, fevers, flus. I was going to say. You know, I have asked people here in the Northwest to go ahead and take fresh growth off of spruce or pine and as a trail nibble, that's what we call them when you just snip things as you walk down the trail, right, so they just snip the end and you can actually chew on it when it's very young, it's pretty tasty and it's very high in vitamin C.

Leah: 2:47

But just make sure that it is, because there are okay. So there are many different species of pine and one of the cautions which I'm skipping ahead, but one of the cautions is make sure that you're not ingesting the Pacific U so know how to identify pine and most of them, I think, have like what is it Like? Five?

Tina: 3:06

needles in a bundle. I think it depends on which one.

Leah: 3:08

But yeah, but it's something like whatever you do, do not eat Pacific U. That is what the chemotherapies, the taxines pachyletaxyl and dosataxyl are derived from, and so that's bad. You don't want to eat it.

Tina: 3:24

And I will say the one that tastes best. If you were to clip off some new growth and make a tea or chew it just for some vitamin C and some good plant medicine, is spruce. It's the best tasting, a little less resinous.

Leah: 3:37

So we're going to talk more about the pine bark uses. But pine resin is also very healing, and so that can be made into a salve, or even, I guess, if you're out in the wilderness what's that TV show, naked and Scared or something, I don't know what it is but you get yourself a little cut, you put some pine resin on there and that'll heal you up real fast.

Tina: 4:03

Yeah, so they do include it in some salves for that reason, and I remember. So the resin is what gives us its scent as well. The resin is very, very heavy with the essential oils, which is what gives it a pine scent. Is it terpenes? Yes, and pine is actually a source of turpentine.

Leah: 4:23

Oh, that's that's that. Maybe that's why I knew it was terpenes.

Tina: 4:28

Yeah, I mean way back when people did use turpentine. We used a lot of things way back when that we don't use now that you know. If you interest too much, they're toxic. Turpentine is one of them, but it is part of the component of the plant that has the antimicrobial effect.

Leah: 4:45

Wait, you're talking about turpentine internally. I thought you meant like turpentine, like using to clean your pain brushes.

Tina: 4:50

Well, that's what we do with it now, because we know what it is and it's not good for you and all that good stuff. But 100 years ago people would do drop doses of it. It's in the old herbalist books. It's even in the old medical books textbooks.

Leah: 5:03

Don't do that folks Do not ingest.

Tina: 5:06

Well, we have a lot of more, a lot of safer ways now than turpentine.

Leah: 5:11

Well, I'm just like putting it out there. Hold on, I'm looking. I have this old merc manual that I bought when I bought my merc manual, so I'm going to look and see if I can find turpentine, turpentine oil no kidding, what year is that? Representing 1899. Okay, no kidding, that's crazy. All right, look it, I'm learning stuff. It's live, live Lay a learning.

Tina: 5:34

Have I ever shared it? I mean, we're like going into season three I've never shared with you. I collect old medical books. Ooh, I try to get first editions, I try to get really groundbreaking ones, and so, yeah, I have a lot of very old herbal and medical books, just because it's fun to look at what we used to do and learn.

Leah: 5:52

Well, there's your holiday present right there. Okay, let's keep going. I guess I'm going to speak for you as well. Pine bark extract. We both are familiar with a product called Pichnoginal, and we were both surprised at what Pichnoginal is.

Tina: 6:10

I was thinking it was a component of the pine bark, but it's actually an extract of several components of the pine bark and it is trademarked as Pichnoginal. That's like a trademarked name. Somebody owns that. I thought it was more generic and I thought it was a compound, not several compounds.

Leah: 6:26

Yeah, and I kind of similar thoughts on it so that I have seen used for supporting capillary health and stuff, so for prevention of spider veins.

Tina: 6:41

Yeah, capillary fragility, and this is something that comes on with age. It's something comes on when you don't have enough of these anthocyanins in your diet which come from brightly colored foods, from nature. Generally speaking, and sometimes when you're on medication it can cause that, or lack of some hormones can cause a thinning of the skin and easier breakage of the veins or capillaries, I should say.

Leah: 7:08

Yeah, and the French marine pine bark is used for. One of its uses is for cardiovascular health, so that makes a lot of sense. Also, it's I did not know, but it's also used for rectile dysfunction. So there you go, capillaries, and it reduces inflammation.

Tina: 7:23

Yeah, for me, I've always associated pycnogenal with health of the ears specifically, and I think that was due to a study or a couple studies about 10 years ago. So it's really the only time I've really reached for it is when people had some damage from their chemotherapy in their ears. Usually that was a platinum drug and I would reach for the pycnogenal. Sometimes it was in a combination with other antioxidants mypoic acid and some others.

Leah: 7:47

So you used it after the treatment was completed.

Tina: 7:50

Yes.

Leah: 7:51

Yeah, Because it is a it's potent antioxidant.

Tina: 7:54

Yeah, and sometimes I mean in the case of these platinum drugs I wouldn't be too concerned about an antioxidant. But, that said, I often would wait to do anything that has an antioxidant quality until after the treatment was over. Sometimes it's more to keep the peace and to make sure that there was no stress, undue stress, on the patient feeling conflicted. So more of a practical reason than a scientific reason.

Leah: 8:18

And cisplatin sometimes is, or platinums in general, are used in combination with other therapies, and so that's something that was taken into consideration. So I already mentioned the precaution of not mistaking it for the Pacific U, that would be, for anyone who would live in the region of the Pacific U. So when you're hiking and taking a little trail, what did you?

Tina: 8:43

call it. It's a trail nibble, trail nibble, I was going to say trail nibble, that Pacific U goes all the way through Montana. I mean it's a very, it's a large region.

Leah: 8:55

Yeah, but if you're on the East Coast don't worry about it. Yes, but the resin. So the resin should not be taken internally unless you are working with a professional herbalist.

Tina: 9:07

Yeah, the internal use of the resins yeah, it should be because of that turpentine, because if you're working with a resin, you're going to get some of these components that, if you take too much in, can have a toxic effect.

Tina: 9:19

That said, one safe way that I think everyone can access the pine species, of any kind, is essential oils, which are a concentration of what you get when you walk through the forest in the first place.

Tina: 9:32

So if you walk through a pine forest, no matter where you are, and you can smell those pine trees around you, you're getting chemical compounds in the air. You're inhaling them, and when you inhale them they get absorbed into your system. And some of the compounds, specifically from pine species, are calming, even sedating, and so pine essential oil after your dinner you take a hot bath, put some epsom salt in there, that kind of thing put a drop or two of pine essential oil can be very relaxing, and this is one of the reasons forest bathing is very good for people's health, and so, among the many, many compounds that are coming off the trees and in the air, the pine trees are giving off specific compounds that are calming, and there's other compounds that are anti-inflammatory and help with pain and things like that. But I think the ones from pine are known to be specifically relaxing.

Leah: 10:28

So when I lived in Santa Fe, around this time of year the whole town smells like pinion, because that's the pine that's grown in the Southwest, that they burn the wood and it is the most delightful, delicious, calming, grounding smell Like. It's wonderful. If anyone has experienced that, and for years I would look for pinion incense to burn just because of that feeling.

Leah: 11:03

That's one of my favorite memories, and my favorite smells is the pinion, so there are a lot of different species of pine depending on where you live, so that's kind of cool as well.

Tina: 11:15

Yeah, yeah, it's very accessible, no matter where you are.

Leah: 11:21

If someone is pregnant, do not ingest pine. I guess that could be sad for any herb, unless you're working with an herbalist, a medical herbalist, I'm going to say professional herbalist. I just read a book herbalist.

Tina: 11:34

Right Someone who knows the downside or the risks involved with plants.

Leah: 11:39

Exactly Ingesting pine over long term, I think might be bad if you have kidney issues.

Tina: 11:46

Well, because the whole pine extract will always contain some of that turpentine. It really needs to be done, as you mentioned, under the guidance of someone who is familiar with the plant, the extraction of the plant, the risks and the benefits of using that plant.

Tina: 12:02

So pycnogenal different, I mean it's been isolated and it's not going to have those other components, those alkaloids and other components that might be harsh or toxic. So pycnogenal is safe. It's the whole plant extract. It's having the tea or a tincture of pine that needs to be done by someone who knows what they're doing. So they took those compounds out of the tincture or you're working with an herbalist because a small, small amount may be part of the therapeutic benefit.

Leah: 12:32

Right, it's not like you're going to be doing pure pine tincture. It's most likely a blend, right? Obviously, if someone is allergic to pine, which is a huge possibility, don't use pine. And then, once again, everyone's favorite interaction warfarin, warfarin.

Tina: 12:49

I feel like we could just all say that in unison Anyone who's listened to us for any time we can all just take a deep breath and say together warfarin. Unfortunately, everyone interacts with pretty much everything out there, at least once.

Leah: 13:01

There's going to be a case report or everything interacts with warfarin right. Yes, so anything else about pine?

Tina: 13:10

So, since sitting next to a pine tree or walking in the woods is something that people can access and it's free, I'm just gonna list the benefits of these compounds that are breathed in, again for free, free medicine outside your door, all right. It can increase natural killer cell activity. It can be anti-inflammatory for your entire body, and anti-inflammatory is a good thing. Your nervous system is relaxed, as I already mentioned. It can be mood enhancing, so it increases levels of neurotransmitters that are helpful for a happy mood, like serotonin, and, again, it can enhance sleep, and that's pine specific. Other plants do it too, but I mean that's really very much a pine thing and it can help reduce blood glucose levels. So, people who have trouble controlling their blood glucose, the walking in the woods when there's pine is gonna be helpful to lower your blood glucose levels, and these are all evidence-based ways. That, again, is free and available, and all you have to do is do it.

Leah: 14:12

I just thought of a use of pine that wasn't mentioned in anything that I had looked up eating pine nuts, pine nuts or pinion nuts. Even you make pesto you can use pine nuts. They are pricey but that is a very nice, accessible use of pine. I love pine nuts.

Tina: 14:30

We adopted a dog and when he was a puppy, like nine months old, he had a really rough life. Before we got him he was able to just take a pine cone and, with his little teeth, pull out the pine nuts and eat them, just like a squirrel could. That's how hungry he was, guess, when he was a puppy. So that's amazing. He figured it out. Usually the squirrels get to the pine nuts before we do so. All those pine cones we see on the ground are usually empty.

Leah: 14:55

Yeah, I don't know if I've ever seen a pine nut in the wild. I've just seen it in the grocery store, but I am. Let's see the nutritional benefits of pine nuts. They have protein, iron and magnesium and they are vitamin E rich, so they're good for your heart. With the omega-3 fatty acids, With the magnesium, it may help with insulin balance and diabetes, and then the omega-3s are really good for your brain. Pine nuts.

Tina: 15:24

That sounds like all the things that would be in raw pine nuts, and then a lot of it stays put even after you toast the pine nut. So because I often toast it before making pesto or something, In which case I'm sure the omega-3s and the vitamin E are probably destroyed by my toasting.

Leah: 15:38

Yeah, but you'll still get all the minerals. You'll get the manes and the magnesium and all of that.

Tina: 15:43

So yes, in the protein and such yeah delicious and nutritious.

Leah: 15:48

I needed something that people could take away and be like okay, I can eat some pine nuts and get some health benefits.

Tina: 15:56

All right, so walk to the store. If there's any pine trees in your neighborhood, walk by those, get your pine nuts. Or by the Christmas tree lot.

Leah: 16:04

Oh yeah, those usually smell really nice and if you're in a city, that might be the only place you're gonna see a pine.

Tina: 16:10

And if you're lingering, just standing there inhaling all those pine trees and they ask you what you're doing, you can explain to them it's medicine. It's medicine. You gotta listen to this podcast. I just heard about how good this is for me.

Leah: 16:22

All right. Remember to leave a review, a rating, subscribe or follow, depending on what streaming app you use. Share this with a friend.

Tina: 16:33

Yes, if there's someone you know right now, go ahead and send it their way, like just text them. If there's anyone you know, Right now just like at the moment, right now.

Leah: 16:43

What? Yeah, it's just funny, just like does anyone you know? Just send this the first person you think of. Go Right, and if everyone did that, we would grow All right. On that note, I'm Dr Leah Sherman and I'm Dr Tina Kaser, and this is the Cancer Pod. Until next time. Thanks for listening to the Cancer Pod. Remember to subscribe, review and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on social media for updates and, as always, this is not medical advice. These are our opinions. Talk to your doctor before changing anything related to your treatment plan. The Cancer Pod is hosted by me, dr Leah Sherman, and by Dr Tina Kaser. Music is by Kevin MacLeod. See you next time, music.