ZPP. 61 - Sammie Martin

This week on Zen Perry Project, neuroscientist by day / singer-songwriter by night SAMMIE MARTIN joins the show live from the Bushwick Basement! After assuaging Zen’s curiosity about any unintentionally self-inflicted brain damage, the conversation dives into the inspirations for Sammie’s songs like “I Can’t Lose Me To You” (which Zen performed on before ever meeting her in-person), ponders what stardust might sound like, appreciates the quality of distinctive vocal harmonies, and recounts how one might react to coming across a burning tree in a cemetery. 

Sammie uses her artistic platform to raise awareness and thousands of dollars in donations to organizations advocating for peoples’ rights and well-being around the world. She’s currently training for the New York Marathon and is running to support FACES (Finding a Cure for Epilepsy & Seizures) - if you’re able, consider donating via this link- (https://nyulangone.org/give/fundraise/team-campaigns/martin) 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:27

I feel like I'm on morning announcements in high school. Hi, this is Zen and Sammy, and this is today's morning update.

Speaker 2: 0:34

Hey everybody, we're on the Zen Prairie Project today. Today we're here with Sammy Martin. She does music and a whole bunch of other stuff And we're going to talk about all that in a second. Wow, that was the most. That was a lot. That was really good, though That was a solid introduction.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Love to that very much. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2: 0:52

Thank you for being here.

Speaker 1: 0:53

My absolute pleasure.

Speaker 2: 0:54

Yeah, you live like 20 minutes away.

Speaker 1: 0:56

The walk over here was quite lovely. I was walking through, strutting down the street, having a nice like leather, listening to Paramore. I was feeling good.

Speaker 2: 1:04

You worked today. What do you do?

Speaker 1: 1:06

My day job. I am a neuroscientist. I do research with adults and kids that have a history of seizures, and then by night it sounds like Batman. That was not intentional, but by night I write songs and play music.

Speaker 2: 1:20

I thought you was a barista.

Speaker 1: 1:24

I wish I could make lattes. I really can't Like those latte artists they got this. It's a very basic thing to say, but when they come out with, like, full paintings on your coffee, yeah, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 1:37

They're like I could have been a neuroscientist, but this is way better.

Speaker 1: 1:40

Yeah, when I get a brain on my cappuccino like in foam, I'm like all right, that's much more impressive, That's very impressive.

Speaker 2: 1:46

That's a healthy looking brain in that foam right there.

Speaker 1: 1:48

That's exactly, And I see you got a. is that a new tattoo?

Speaker 2: 1:52

I did get a new tattoo.

Speaker 1: 1:53

Very cool. Are we plugging tattoo artists on the show as well?

Speaker 2: 1:56

His name is Camden unknown last name, but I've known him for a while and he's given me a couple tattoos now. Very nice.

Speaker 1: 2:01

Very cool.

Speaker 2: 2:02

Yeah, I appreciate that Camden might have him on the show at some point.

Speaker 1: 2:06

And now a word from our sponsor, Camden.

Speaker 2: 2:10

We'll take three bucks for that sponsorship, exactly, thank you. What the hell do you do in neuroscience?

Speaker 1: 2:18

So I study the brain, so I look at like changes in the brain that occur in folks that have a history of seizures. What else do I do? I work with like cognitive testing so we get to like talk with folks and kind of assess their memory, language, attentional functioning, things like that. It's very cool, keeps me sane, like the job very much. Love the work-life balance because I get to do music and have time to myself, which a lot of my friends, colleagues, mentors don't have. That same luxury.

Speaker 1: 2:54

So, if I sip water, will the microphone pick up the loud gulp, hopefully, hopefully, okay, here we go.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Yeah, there you go, everybody, Here we are. Of course we're going to get into music.

Speaker 1: 3:05

Oh, absolutely, of course.

Speaker 2: 3:07

I could ask about neuroscience for a long time. One last question about it. before we move on, ask away What's the first signs of somebody who needs to go into one of your clinics.

Speaker 1: 3:21

For seizures or for just in general.

Speaker 2: 3:24

So you do seizures, okay? Just in general.

Speaker 1: 3:26

Yeah, so I mean we work with folks that are already admitted through our hospital And so it's interesting because patients present differently A lot of the veterans with whom we work. They have a kind of larger history of traumatic brain injury than, let's say, other folks that do not have as unique of a background. So that's very interesting in looking at kind of their post-traumatic epilepsy versus kids that might come in and have a particular disorder that they developed in childhood through no fault of their own. But it's cool to get that unique experience with both of these folks. I wish I had a checklist of saying like and now you guys can present this way and be able to be seen by our co-doctors, but we hope to never see you in that setting.

Speaker 2: 4:20

At what point should I go in? No, no.

Speaker 1: 4:24

He's like can I get brain scanned? and am I functioning normally?

Speaker 2: 4:29

Yes, Am I You?

Speaker 1: 4:30

are absolutely, yes, yes, Absolutely, from the hat to the button up.

Speaker 2: 4:35

I need to text my mom.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Good, you should Tell your mom you're doing fine.

Speaker 2: 4:38

I'm doing all right. I got checked out by neuroscientists.

Speaker 1: 4:40

Yeah, you've been co-signed by neuroscientists. It's fine.

Speaker 2: 4:44

And she's like cool, that was very unsolicited Text message, Exactly in your mom's.

Speaker 1: 4:50

She's like are you doing okay? actually, your mom's like so you're in the hospital.

Speaker 2: 4:56

Nope, we're just podcasting.

Speaker 1: 4:59

It's what comes up on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 5:01

You know that's the beauty, moving on.

Speaker 1: 5:03

So where are you from? I am originally from Boston, from Boston, not too far from here. I've been to and traveled to New York many times, growing up. Love Boston, die hard Boston sports fans. So for any of your New York friends who yeah, i see the nod back there Yeah, big Boston sports fan, big Italian family on my mom's side How big, pretty big. Look, she has probably 30 plus first cousins.

Speaker 2: 5:32

That's how you know it's big. That's how you know it's big. You think she's probably.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Oh yeah, my grandfather, i believe, was one of eight and my grandmother was one of seven. Or it might be flipped. I'll get yelled at later by my own mom in an endearing way.

Speaker 2: 5:45

She's going to listen to this Depends, we'll see.

Speaker 1: 5:49

I'll send it to her for sure. Hi, mom, her name is Julie Rebecca Julie. Hey, we're doing great.

Speaker 2: 5:56

Yeah, mom, i'm going to listen to this. That's fine? I don't think so, shit.

Speaker 1: 5:59

Moms are our biggest like advocates, but they can also be the biggest thorns, but that keeps us humble.

Speaker 2: 6:04

Isn't that true? Yeah, so okay. so Boston, when did you? where did you move? Do you stay in Boston most of your life?

Speaker 1: 6:11

I did. I grew up in Boston for most of my life, went to school. I did my undergrad in Boston, lived in Madrid for a bit, which was really nice Studied there for a bit, loved that city. Could talk about it for days and days and days.

Speaker 2: 6:26

Favorite part of Madrid. Oh gosh What did you like doing there.

Speaker 1: 6:31

So when I was there, I was much younger in years, So we definitely had fun going out and singing live music. Going to the I'm 28. How?

Speaker 2: 6:39

old are you? I'm 28.

Speaker 1: 6:41

So we're around the same age. I was younger. I was younger, which means I had a bit more energy, so that kind of going out phase of my life was.

Speaker 1: 6:50

I spied Zen. For context, everyone. He played on one of my tracks. He played drums on I Can't Lose Me to You And we met for the first time. Are we all we're getting to? I'm jumping the gun on how we met, but this is the second time we've seen each other in person. So the fact that I've left this impression on him, for how much energy I have, i'm very proud You're proud of that.

Speaker 2: 7:12

I love that. Okay, madrid, madrid back in 1980s, back in the 1980s.

Speaker 1: 7:20

Yes, when I was a fetus, oh gosh. No, i mean, let's see My favorite part. I loved being with my friends and I loved going out to like see live music, go to the disco, tax or yes, of course, very fun. But honestly, my favorite place is the park. There's a park there called Parque Artiro which is so beautiful. You walk through. It is like so well manicured but like just very scenic. In that way, everyone is just very friendly. They have like they sell like books and they're kind of stalls throughout the park. It's just it's a really beautiful place to go And I remember going there a lot with my friends and just like doing park hangs, which for Brooklynites, we all know what we all value our park hangs. So that place was really awesome. Yeah, i would say that's my favorite place. It's very sentimental.

Speaker 2: 8:10

Very sentimental to you. Yeah, you just picture it in your mind when you want to like go back to a good spot.

Speaker 1: 8:14

Oh yeah, Oh absolutely.

Speaker 2: 8:16

That's a better park than anything you've been to in Brooklyn.

Speaker 1: 8:18

I think so because the best part, too, is what their equivalent of bodegas, they would sell what's called Tinto de Verano, which is basically wine bottled with lemonade. but it is a Euro and it is so good. You can just go and picture like the weather being like 75 degrees, it's sunny, you know, you hear like the Spanish guitar in the background through the park. You're just like you're walking through your living. you're like Vida Loca and you're just, you're having such a lovely time with your friends, and then you just have this drink that you can buy for a Euro. You eat food. It's just. you feel full on life and food and Tinto de Verano.

Speaker 2: 9:02

That sounds amazing.

Speaker 1: 9:03

Yeah, it is, it's really nice.

Speaker 2: 9:04

All right, let's go back again.

Speaker 1: 9:07

Group trip to Madrid, to a gig in Madrid A gig in Madrid.

Speaker 2: 9:13

How did you move to New York City? What was your like plan? and all that, My catalyst my plan.

Speaker 1: 9:20

I had always wanted to move to New York. I love the pulse of the city. Boston truly is. I will consider it home forever.

Speaker 1: 9:29

But New York is such a vibrant, unlimited city And I knew growing up I was like I'm going to end up in New York at some point, not just for music but for the openness and the just the pulse that comes with being in a major city. And I think Boston really prepped me super well for New York, because even though the bars close at two, like it's kind of the training ground for New York City, and so you got similar people So you kind of get like the pace of life, but then you realize that you can have whatever interests you want, do whatever you would like, and you will find like-minded people. So I knew I was going to end up here. It just happened through and the timing was right because I came here for grad school And so I said, yeah, i'm of the age where I'm an adult. Now I have my, the ground underneath my feet, my little baby wings, and it felt really nice to come here.

Speaker 1: 10:26

Yeah, it felt like the right time.

Speaker 2: 10:27

There you go. When did you start playing music?

Speaker 1: 10:30

Oh, wow, okay, so I, one of my earliest memories, i think, is when I'm like three or four years old, my, i come from a really musical family.

Speaker 1: 10:39

So my grandfather on my mom's side, he used to sing in the West End, which doesn't even exist anymore in Boston, but in the West End Playhouse, and he had this kind of Frank Sinatra, krenner style to his voice And he was he's a beautiful singer and he used to be in a group with his brothers called the Four Jays And so growing up I would constantly hear him singing but also be kind of encouraged through him to sing.

Speaker 1: 11:08

My grandfather on my dad's side was a singer. He toured with like a bunch of choirs throughout Europe in his life Super, like in the best way, like very artistic, very flamboyant, very like life is full of grandeur and that definitely gave me a bit of the theatricality. But yeah, and then my dad is a trumpet player And so growing up it was a, it was a really nice integration to just be constantly surrounded by music and be like encouraged to pick up an instrument and play along, even if I was really young and at the time like not very good, but yeah. So I think from very early on it was like a soft but definitely steady integration into music.

Speaker 2: 11:56

Did your families meet? Did your grandparents ever play music together?

Speaker 1: 12:00

I wish no. So my dad is originally from LA and my mom is from Boston and they met when my mom was out living in LA, kind of living her equivalent of my New York life now back in the 80s. And if you think my personality has a lot of energy, i'm kind of a mix of my parents. So my mom is just pure energy. So God, i love her And, to be fair, got my music taste through her.

Speaker 2: 12:25

So we should have her come out.

Speaker 1: 12:28

Oh, she would love that. And then she'd move in and you'd be like I swear. We only invited her out for one episode, That's why I can't let my mom stay here. That's fair. Or your mom would come out and be like the life of the party and you're like, oh my God, they love me more than, or they love her more than they love me. You know.

Speaker 2: 12:43

She does cook better.

Speaker 1: 12:45

That's fair. I wish I could cook. Yeah, you can't cook, i can make paella.

Speaker 2: 12:51

So you have like two Italian families.

Speaker 1: 12:54

Well, i have an Italian family on my mom's side and then my dad is Spanish and Bohemian. So, like Czech Republic area, they cook too. South Germany, yeah, but I can make paella and like tortilla de patata and enough food to like sustain me.

Speaker 2: 13:10

Two things I know nothing about Sounds great.

Speaker 1: 13:13

I mean, i know nothing about cooking. So, rebecca, give us a call, that's great.

Speaker 2: 13:18

So okay, well, really, yeah. so these two huge families. They were playing music, you were doing that. So when was your first time ever like playing anything live or in front of somebody? That's a good question.

Speaker 1: 13:30

That's a good question. Yeah, so I think the first time that I ever played something live of my own or just in general, yeah, okay, so the first time that I played something live, i believe I mean I did like a lot of theater growing up and I think, being invested in music that way, but they were. I used to kind of sit in every once in a while with my dad. I remember this like sitting in when I was like 14 at this pub up in Newburyport when he was playing some like some jazz, and I don't even remember the guy on the track, but I can hear it where it's like concert in B flat, like a one, two, a one, two, three, four, and then like the jazz starts, i like wake, i like fall asleep and like wake up to that man's voice and I'm like what's his name? But he was exactly like cold sweat, like where is he? like he's in the walls. I swear I'm not crazy.

Speaker 1: 14:33

But you know, when you've heard it over the years, you like it's just embedded deep in your brain. I would know. So, yeah, so I remember that. I remember performing with him along to some jazz tracks and kind of freestyling. I think that gave me the breath of my ear training, which I really, really appreciate and would never trade for the world. It's a 1400 pub.

Speaker 1: 15:01

Yeah, and then I think, live music with other folks. when I was 18, we had kind of a like senior showcase and I played was it nothing but the water? by Grace Potter and the Nocturnals, with a few yeah Michael smiling in the background. It's an awesome song. Grace Potter is an amazing vocalist and performer and has perfect pitch, which is just like truly astounding to me. But I played with these fine gentlemen Lars, he changed his name on bass, alex on keys and Kyle, i think, on drums And it was so fun And it was. it was really cool because a lot of my friends knew I did music but most of my classmates like didn't, because it's like, unless you're surrounded by the folks that are also in music, like it doesn't really come up.

Speaker 2: 15:52

Or you tell them constantly.

Speaker 1: 15:54

Or you tell them constantly Yeah, i see you like constantly remind them like, hey, i'm in, i'm in, i'm doing music. That's probably how I should have done it, but it was really cool to like see people, like see people's faces and like me coming out with my Les Paul and just like playing the, playing the guitar with these guys And we were having a great time jamming out and getting off stage and them being like I'm sorry, like you, play music and you can sing like that, and I was like yeah, yeah, so that was, that was really fun, probably the earliest memories.

Speaker 2: 16:24

Okay, so then he's so. you want to, you want to make music in general. When do you, when do you start like, i mean, when we start like writing songs? when do you start doing all that good stuff?

Speaker 1: 16:33

Yeah, i started writing songs when I was like maybe 14 or 15. They were very singer-songwriter, very like heavily inspired by there's a joke in head lasso of like the female singer-songwriters that are trying to get all the puppies in the US adopted, so like Sarah Bareilles, like Sarah McLaughlin, like all of those. So it was very like. it was very welfare inspired singer-songwriter vibes and very much teenage angst and longing.

Speaker 1: 17:07

But it also, i think, opened me up to a really interesting niche of lyrics being at the forefront of music And then that balanced out, i think, a lot of the music tastes that I got from my mom and my uncle who was kind of inundating me with like, yes, 80s music from my mom, but, like you know, prince and, yes, madonna, michael Jackson, so that very kind of dance related music My uncle used to inundate me with like British rock, hard rock. So it was a really interesting balance to kind of put lyrics at the forefront And then from there I just kept writing over the years And it was something that has continuously grown in me that I want to kind of put at the focal point.

Speaker 2: 18:00

Yeah, so you recorded some music together.

Speaker 1: 18:03

We did record some music together.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Well, not actually together, but Bicostal, you know, bicostal, they just really far apart actually.

Speaker 1: 18:09

Should we tell them now that this is the second time we've met in person ever? Yeah, yeah, this is the second time we've met in person ever. Michael knows, because he is the one, the fabulous gent, that.

Speaker 2: 18:21

Michael Maverick. Libra over there.

Speaker 1: 18:23

The cool producer of this show.

Speaker 2: 18:25

Yeah, he's killing it, killing it, crushing it. Yeah, so far very well produced.

Speaker 1: 18:28

Very well produced. The lighting video cinematography Astounding. the tablecloth.

Speaker 2: 18:32

Yeah, tablecloth.

Speaker 1: 18:33

I just very like I love the space growing up like I'm gonna, just Not so much anymore, did you? buy this for me Like thank you, the final frontier, the final frontier, it's the final countdown, so you recorded it together. Yeah, we did record together And also.

Speaker 2: 18:51

Michael recorded on this track as well.

Speaker 1: 18:52

Yes on, i Can't Lose Me to You which was Who were you singing about in that song? Who was I singing about? Oh, okay, so it's kind of a mixture of people that I'm singing about And I purposefully and somewhat annoyingly left this explanation open-ended for the longest time because I wanted people Until now. Until now, because I wanted people to listen to the song and kind of imprint their own relationship dynamics onto it and be like oh, i think she's singing about this person. I think she's singing about this person, because to me, like, the best conversations I've had about that song are when people have come up to me and been like I think you're singing about this person and here's why, and then it kind of spins into like so who is this person to you? And I learned so much about the person that I'm talking to when they're like giving the opinion about who the song is about.

Speaker 1: 19:53

So it's a mixture of folks and relationships that I've had over the years where I've tended to kind of quiet the parts of myself, like we all do, for the sake of the relationship. And then I remember being in a kind of end of relationship discussion with someone And me hearing this person say you know, i just wish you were able to prioritize me more and me replying with I love you, but I can't lose myself to you. And then I was like hmm, okay, and went and sat down after that and the lyrics kind of just poured out And so, yeah, it was me kind of writing out my frustrations to this person. So the line of like I love you, i can't lose me to you and you shouldn't want me to, definitely it comes from from somewhere deep within and someone deep inside me. That's like I'm coming out and I'm coming back, don't worry, like I'm still here, but I'm coming back to the forefront.

Speaker 2: 20:59

So Such as an amalgamation of people but a very specific person.

Speaker 1: 21:03

I mean, yeah, it definitely. It definitely came about And, funnily enough, it wasn't a relationship that was a very long one. It just was a relationship that needed to happen in my life. When it did for me to kind of have the switch flip and be like okay. Yeah, i'm also a person that has value and worth, and I'm putting my I'm reintroducing myself to me.

Speaker 2: 21:25

What did you go? Very philosophical, you know Very philosophical, but yeah, So we recorded this song across the whole United States, as you said, indeed, and that was cool, are we?

Speaker 1: 21:37

allowed to sip alcohol on this podcast. Is that okay? I didn't know. They kindly enough offered me a white, a white cloth.

Speaker 2: 21:45

Producer says it's good.

Speaker 1: 21:46

Producer says it's okay, just wanted to sip.

Speaker 2: 21:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:50

The mango white cloth sponsorship here is very delicious, but yeah, you've recorded bicoastally.

Speaker 2: 21:58

When was that? Is that 2021? I think so Yeah it was like It was still pandemic years. Yeah, it was kind of pandemic-y out there out in the world.

Speaker 1: 22:06

I was really happy that you agreed to record the drums too, because I had obviously done like a deep or well, semi-deep dive on your background and how much you have recorded, and not just for your own projects but for other folks' projects as well, and across genres. So I was really really happy that you were like yeah, i like the song a lot, let me do it. So thank you for making the drum sound so good.

Speaker 2: 22:33

It was a fun song, thank you, yeah, and it was just cool to see how inspired you were on it And it had like a bunch of cool changes in it. You had a whole vibe for it. You knew what you wanted Which some people aren't very good at explaining stuff and you got it.

Speaker 1: 22:49

It must be wild for you too, because if you're playing on like, have you ever been in that situation?

Speaker 2: 22:54

Oh.

Speaker 1: 22:55

More often than not.

Speaker 2: 22:56

Oh no, you want a quick story.

Speaker 1: 22:57

Oh yeah, who are you thinking of in particular? Or is it an amalgamation?

Speaker 2: 23:02

I won't say the band out loud, but this one band I was in, we were playing, we were like getting ready for a show at a festival actually, and I was like dope, i'm playing a festival with these people, they're going to be on it. And she's like I want you to make this chorus sound like stardust. And I was like I looked at my drum set and I'm like, ok, i don't know, i don't have a stardust.

Speaker 1: 23:24

Plug in time.

Speaker 2: 23:27

I don't know what she mean And she was very dead set on like stardust And I'm like OK, that's not an answer, that's not English, but I appreciate you trying to explain things to me. I'll figure it out, ok.

Speaker 1: 23:43

I would be like so big cavernous, like what do we start? Like it just explodes and the sound's over there on. Like what is that I-95? Like what do we?

Speaker 2: 23:53

And, like for most of our drums are binary either they're on or off. You hit them or you don't. Of course there's a musicality and artistry to any instrument, drums included. I'm not talking shit on drums, just saying, sure, either on or off. And yeah, i thought that was hilarious And I think she thought I did OK But played that festival and I don't think they ever played that much after that And that was it, but whatever.

Speaker 1: 24:20

Tune in next week for the episode called Stardust, stardust, stardust.

Speaker 2: 24:24

How do we get chorus sound like stardust? It's the dust of stars. I think it just played a very straightforward beat And it was like dope. I'm like all right, if that's what you think Stardust. I was like thought it'd be more like impressive, but here you go.

Speaker 1: 24:38

Yeah, exactly No, that's awesome, That's really cool.

Speaker 2: 24:41

But yeah, in general, i just love people actually doing their stuff And I've been talking to Jake about this. Jake's been on the podcast a million times, so Very cool If you're just listening for the first time. Jake DiCaio He's a photographer, the musician, artist, great guy. But we were talking about just doing the productions, like actually sitting down and getting the people together for making a production happen. Sure, because that's when everything happens, and Jake and I, as you may or may not know, haven't really enjoyed New York City lately Because we moved here not that long ago, really getting the most out of it, but at the same time have not done a huge amount of artistic pursuits, just because there's a lot of stuff to do.

Speaker 2: 25:26

It happens, yeah, and people keep on saying that, yeah, you're not going to want to stay out till five o'clock in the morning. They're like give it a few months. And I'm like when is that coming? Because I'm so tired Like I don't know how.

Speaker 1: 25:37

How many months have you been?

Speaker 2: 25:37

here Since February, so five.

Speaker 1: 25:41

Five OK. Once you get through the summer, as soon as the cold weather starts to come back, you are going to be like OK, oh, I feel it in my bones, I'm tired.

Speaker 2: 25:48

Yeah, and I agree, but making those productions happen, making these things happen is such an important thing to do, and it's also when you get to meet people And that's when you get to make the whole connection thing happen for music or art, whatever you're doing videos or whatever. This chair is so creaky And what's cool about this is you actually had some stuff come of this project that you did afterwards. Are you able to talk about that now?

Speaker 1: 26:15

You mean the project after. I can't lose me to you.

Speaker 2: 26:18

Yeah, then you have something come up in LA.

Speaker 1: 26:22

So I'm not able to fully talk about it yet But I have, or rather because it's still in the kind of staging process And I will definitely take the more humble approach that this experience coming up hopefully in LA is going to be one. That's me learning a lot about the collaborative writing process, because up until this point I've done lyrics on my own And I've done instrumentation on my own, so I can play instruments. I can play not as well as Zen, but I can play like basic drum rhythms on my MIDI. And then writing music is I can't read music, but I can write music because it's math And so as long as I kind of understand in my head what I want for a particular instrument, i can either play it with my guitar, i can kind of like tap it out with my drum pads, and then I have like a lot of fun with baselines, writing baselines. So for this experience coming up in LA, this is going to be kind of putting together Um, writing lyrics, music.

Speaker 1: 27:31

Yeah, it's gonna be a very cool learning experience and I cannot wait to see what the process is of writing with um people and just observing professionals that do this for a living, um, that are quite successful at it, how they go about this process. In writing. For, um, what's called SYNC, so like, uh, like song placement, and like TV or film or um, let's see what else. Like I guess, way back when they would call it jingles, but I'm probably not the person to summarize this too well but like, if you hear any TV show. Um, russian Doll is a really, uh, i love that.

Speaker 1: 28:09

I love that TV show. Um, so whoever you know places those particular songs throughout particular scenes of the show. um, there are folks that will do that or write for SYNC specifically and try to get songs placed. Um, russian Doll is a bit different though, because they already used like well-established songs. Um, but yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:30

I think they had um Royal Jelly by Deep Valley.

Speaker 1: 28:35

Yeah, they also had a song by Pussy Riot, and that's how I knew I was like, wow, this is an already astounding like show and their music selection. And then when I heard Pussy Riot, i was like, okay, i need to know who their music supervisor is. This is incredible. Their musical depth is just awesome.

Speaker 2: 28:53

That's right, i mean so. I mean, how did you get approached by this person that you know how to talk about?

Speaker 1: 28:59

No, so I didn't get approached. I ended up cold calling, or rather cold emailing um another individual who was a music supervisor of a show that I really liked, and ended up sending them I Can't Lose Me to You and asking for feedback, and I didn't expect anything to come from it. Um, i honestly didn't think this person was going to respond to the email because they were quite busy, um, and I didn't hear anything for several weeks so I forgot about it And then I ended up getting like a three to four paragraph email back um where she said she was like I was, i was playing your song for some friends at dinner and I want to connect you with this songwriter in LA that I think is really um great and would be good for like mentorship, and I can talk about her. Hope, hope Thal Um. She's really cool and she has her own music projects out.

Speaker 1: 29:49

Bloom is an album that she just released which is very, very good, and it's on Spotify and Apple Music, i think Um. But she has been a really amazing resource and person to talk to and get um advice from about this process and um what it means to not only write for SYNC um but answering questions that I think I would be too scared to ask any like in any other setting, that you kind of feel like you're really, really small fish in the room, um, and I think the best part about talking with her is that like no question is off limits, and so I didn't really know much about the process before speaking with her, and she answered everything from like my very basic questions all the way up to um, what is it like to collaborate, and can I come and sit in on a session? So, um, she's really, yeah, she's really awesome, and I yeah, i could sing her praises for a very long time, so wow, that's really cool, So, wow, so she's just like she's really connected you up.

Speaker 1: 30:58

She, yeah, she has given me and she has given me advice. She has given me.

Speaker 2: 31:03

I'm not saying there's anything like like $500,000 contract or anything like that coming out. Just saying, like you get to see what's actually happening in this, in this world?

Speaker 1: 31:12

Absolutely. She has given me the opportunity to learn, and that is, i think, the best thing that I could ask for right now.

Speaker 2: 31:22

There you go. Yeah, what do you want to do with this?

Speaker 1: 31:26

I would love to write. To be honest, i would love to write songs for bands. That would be, i think, my main kind of niche. My upbringing was rooted very much in the musical index is kind of the understatement. But Goffin and King, like Jerry Goffin and Carol King, are, i think, the singer-songwriter Bible, for lack of a better term And it's really really interesting and cool to hear people talk about songs even now and realize that or rather, let me start that sentence over They talk about songs now that I'm like you know that was a Goffin and King song, like it was sung by the cookies or sung by the charelles.

Speaker 1: 32:12

It was sung by like they wrote a song, i think, for the Stones really early on. So it's really cool to see how their music has transcended decades in time but how it was just so foundational to pop music And so I kind of I took that kind of template and I it's kind of my blessing and my curse. That's where my like idea of songwriting for bands like began and ended up until I started talking with Hope, because I was still like in the kind of tin pan alley type days where people would go like into large buildings and write songs and, like you know, goffin and King would be in one room, and then you would have, like, cynthia Weill, like, in another room, and so that's where I thought, or how I thought, the process still works and it doesn't, and so the dream, though, is still there to write for bands and to write for artists, and so it's really cool to see how that has evolved from, i guess, then to now, and try to figure out how I fit into that.

Speaker 2: 33:23

Why would you, why would you want to write music for bands?

Speaker 1: 33:30

I think there is a particular courage and unique artistry that comes with being able to present and market either yourself or your band as kind of a product, but also to be able to significantly impact as many people as songs in our lives have.

Speaker 1: 33:57

I think that's the major draw for me and I think that's the major draw for most people when they listen to music. For whatever reason, our songs are our favorite songs because we have some form of like emotional connection to them, whether they be like we got married and that was like our wedding song, or whether it's, you know you were 15 and trying to figure out your identity and kind of feeling very isolated in a world that you realize may be not necessarily fully shaped for you or welcoming to you in the way that you want, or, you know you're going through divorce or heartbreak. We all have kind of these songs that we gravitate to and really root us in our feelings and our emotions, and so I think the interface of writing for someone that has the ability to do that is just a unique experience that I would love to be a part of.

Speaker 2: 35:01

Yeah, I feel like you should write a song for people to get married to. I think that would be your jam and you would kill it.

Speaker 1: 35:12

Thank you, i feel like you know it's so funny because everyone and it's still to this day like the wedding song that everyone thinks of, or at least like a lot of mainstream pop is like that Ed Sheeran song Thinking Out Loud. Do you know that it's still like one of the most popular wedding songs in the US? It's not even that old. It's not even that old, but it has like two billion streams or something like on YouTube and it's one of the most popular songs, like for weddings and like Young Love or whatever It was.

Speaker 1: 35:41

just I was like wow, great song, like very well constructed, very like good hook, good guitar, great music video.

Speaker 2: 35:49

Time for another one.

Speaker 1: 35:51

Yeah, divide is out now.

Speaker 2: 35:53

I haven't listened to divide. yet I have been thinking wedding I go, do I care?

Speaker 1: 35:55

Exactly That and shout That, and shout That and shout equivalent. It will be called whisper.

Speaker 2: 36:02

Okay, Oh, there you go. What are the lyrics to shout What's what's like the main part of it?

Speaker 1: 36:07

Something you know. You make me wanna shout Oh okay, Yeah, that one.

Speaker 2: 36:12

Yeah, i'm not talking. That's like walking down the aisle thing.

Speaker 1: 36:14

Oh, okay, That's what I'm talking about. Like, like a what would be your walking down the aisle song?

Speaker 2: 36:19

Not gonna get married, but I appreciate that That's fair.

Speaker 1: 36:21

No, just like if you had to write one.

Speaker 2: 36:23

If I had to write one. Oh man, I'm like I probably will say married to you.

Speaker 1: 36:34

I love immediately the head bob of like hard, like an email, like falloutboy, like a little less 16 candles like I will You have like Joe spinning in the background.

Speaker 2: 36:46

This is as a drummer speaking, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:49

I saw the drummer head like immediately start to go.

Speaker 2: 36:51

It's like I have a rhythm. I have zero anything else Yeah exactly You know what.

Speaker 1: 36:54

Just make it weird. Put like a melaton on it, make some weird instruments together, just out of left field, like melaton Vue's. Whale up, you know, do whatever. Yeah, at there man. Yes, why the heck not Exactly? Yeah, that's stardust like there you go. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2: 37:09

I don't even know where the fuck we got this.

Speaker 1: 37:11

I don't know. Uh, we're just spitballing here.

Speaker 2: 37:13

No, i meant I meant this, but yes, that. Then on this How? what's, what's your connection between neuroscience and the freaking music? What do you? what overlaps? You talked about math earlier. you're like I can't read. I don't know how to read, but I know how to read I am literate, i swear I'm literate.

Speaker 1: 37:31

I can't read music. I swear I'm literate. It's making me think of that SNL's get with Anna D'Armes where they're like talking to a music producer and he's like, oh, like, young spicy, he can read, but he struggles with ma, ma, ma, ma, math. I'm like trying to figure out a tag like Mike will made it. Oh God, um, i can't. That is correct. I cannot read music. I swear I'm literate. People Um, that is correct.

Speaker 1: 38:01

So the connection between neuroscience and music I think, if I'm being completely honest, there's so many folks in my life that are peer creatives that I love how much pours out of them artistically, but But they have a hard time trying to focus that energy through, like no fault of their own. And this is not like a, you know, like a good or bad character judgment, it's just some of the most creative, talented people. I'm like if you had the kind of energy focus I like, you are a ball of ideas and of talent and artistry and creativity that you could genuinely like change the landscape of whatever medium you know. You're trying to make a name for yourself in Um, so I think neuroscience has really helped me. Is that that has given me the discipline to be very observational about my music and very kind of technically disciplined and how I put music together.

Speaker 1: 39:08

So, even though the songs that I have out now are more kind of demo and I did the mixing and mastering, so it's not perfect by any stretch, it's definitely. You can see the improvement in each of my tracks that have been released. But you know, the learning curve is definitely there. But I think the interface of the two is that it's given me the discipline to channel my creativity in a way that's productive. And then the opposite is like I think outside the box very alienarily when I do my job, and that has only come about because I understand that music is this, a linear process and no idea is off limits. And so answering questions, for my day job is, gives me the opportunity to think creatively, but then neuroscience and my day job will give me the kind of discipline and linearity that I need to get stuff done. So, yeah, i think that's how I got to do it.

Speaker 2: 40:11

I can make this music. Yeah, i want to put it out. I have this amount of time.

Speaker 1: 40:16

Yeah, And you know Zen because I'm sure you have a thousand New York stories like it is, even in the five months you've been here. it is hard to discipline yourself in a an adult playground like New York where you can get very distracted very easily for very good reasons.

Speaker 1: 40:37

But yeah, it is so good And they've led to some amazing non sharing experiences on this podcast, as I, as I readjust my Niles Crane t-shirt. But yeah, it is a. It is a great place to be, but yeah, it can definitely be very distracting if you don't have the kind of.

Speaker 2: 41:00

I agree.

Speaker 1: 41:00

Yeah, which you do, so he does. I'm so disciplined, he's so disciplined, he's doing all the jobs.

Speaker 2: 41:08

We're doing a podcast right now.

Speaker 1: 41:09

We're doing a podcast right now. Look how disciplined we are. We got here. I got here on time. Zen had like food, drinks, like waiting. Michael has been a consummate producer. You did, but I fed myself beforehand. See, it's that juxtaposition.

Speaker 2: 41:23

I'm up to you. Garlic. Now We're like she's so.

Speaker 1: 41:25

She let me a garlic knot. Yeah, i definitely feel like Pete went from follow up right now, when he's like drinking that juice. They're like we've kept his vampirism at bay And it's that weird nine minute music video where he's like drinking what looks like Kool-Aid mixed with garlic chunks And I was like. I was like they definitely thought of this like in a fever dream or in some like basement in Iowa in 2003,. But oh well, Good year Good year.

Speaker 2: 41:52

Great year. Who were we?

Speaker 1: 41:54

Who knows? Who knows anymore, who knows? I feel in my brain the way that this tablecloth looks And I swear I've had nothing but a quarter of a white cloth.

Speaker 2: 42:05

It's been a very trippy day today. We went on a run as well. You went on a run, i did. We went on a run through the graveyard right over here. And we're running along and we went as far as we could in the graveyard because it's massive. This graveyard up in Bushwick is like this is biggest.

Speaker 1: 42:22

We'll believe that out later.

Speaker 2: 42:24

Yeah, that giant graveyard.

Speaker 1: 42:25

That giant.

Speaker 2: 42:28

They're both giant Yeah they're both giant And we came to a corner and there was a tree that was on fire from the inside Middle note, middle of this graveyard, nobody around, sorry what. This tree was on fire from the inside of it And the fire was coming out of the tree.

Speaker 1: 42:46

I'm sorry. Is this like a biblical, like Moses and the burning bush type deal? I don't fucking know. Or like a demon, like what's going on?

Speaker 2: 42:55

I don't know. And so this happened and we were running, we either was had our phones on us or like that tree is on fire and nobody around. So we like kept on running and we saw a guy work there Like hey, there's a tree on fire. He's like what Can't hear you Like the lawnmower or whatever. And we're like the tree is on fire. He's like there's a tree on fire And we're like, yeah, it's over there. It's like you can see all that smoke. He's like, yeah, thanks, he's like walks and we just like he's like Virginia.

Speaker 1: 43:22

I hardly know you.

Speaker 2: 43:25

So that was our run today, And it was just like that's wild.

Speaker 1: 43:30

Very serendipitous, weird day, so like just this, this trippiness of everything going on, like In complete juxtaposition I ran in Central Park and next to the Balto statue, that dog Well, i mean, it didn't catch on fire, so I think it was a okay, like the Balto statue. It's that dog that I think we might, michael, we might need to tag in for Google. I think it's the dog up in Alaska that, like, rescued all those people. Yeah, i don't need Google, you don't need Google.

Speaker 2: 44:00

It's Balto. Balto, famously saved like a village, with like himself medicine or like something on his collar.

Speaker 1: 44:10

Okay, but isn't there a movie that was made about it? Yeah, and isn't it tragically sad. I heard literal, like ugly chortling sobs coming from my roommate's room and I was like something's wrong and I knocked and I was like are you okay? She's like I'm watching Balto. I was like, oh, my God, okay.

Speaker 2: 44:33

About that dog in the park.

Speaker 1: 44:34

Yeah, so he didn't catch on fire. He looked like he, you know, was a happy dog.

Speaker 2: 44:39

Yeah, no, it's fine, no tree. Why is he crying?

Speaker 1: 44:43

Yeah, something happens. we don't want to give it away, but I think the dog doesn't make it. Does the dog not make it? I'm going to send those spoilers. Okay, I think they think it might have been something sad like that. It didn't really with a dog.

Speaker 2: 44:55

It's a binary system Either it dies or it doesn't. Or plays basketball, and one of those is a shitty movie where it lives, and then the other one is a tragically sad movie that people feel like they need to watch before they need to get a good cry out.

Speaker 1: 45:07

Yeah, that's very fair.

Speaker 2: 45:09

Or John Wick, or John Wick. I guess John Wick was the third case.

Speaker 1: 45:12

See, i'm really in the Cuba Gooding, junior, snow Dogs or Air Buds category, like basically, where the dogs play some form of a sport or Air Buds. Yeah, that movie was great, yeah, it was fantastic, oh man, and they have like nine of them. So, whatever sport you like, yeah, i thought there's like nine Air Buds. There's nine Air Buds I have to look that up, Okay, well they lost me at the first.

Speaker 2: 45:36

Well, that's cool. Some music. What do you got going on next?

Speaker 1: 45:42

What do I have going on next? So I just released You just did like some.

Speaker 2: 45:46

Oh, okay, okay, i remember I'm a professional. Okay, you do things with your music that make cool things happen in the world. Tell me about that.

Speaker 1: 46:00

That is the plug for And the intro to your podcast. You make cool things happen with your music in the world. I liked that a lot. I think that should be on loop.

Speaker 2: 46:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:14

Put a little like electronic rock in the background or like some. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. So I use my personal music projects to raise funds and awareness for organizations that I care about. So for I Can't Lose Me to You I raised $1,100 for the Transgender Education Network of Texas in the ACLU, florida, in response to what's been going on in those respective states And keeping it light. we all know what's going on in those respective states, so I won't go there.

Speaker 1: 46:45

But the other two songs that I released Men and Women I used to bring awareness to and funding to pro reproductive health services for women in the US and like abortion care networks. And then for women, i used it to bring awareness to the Iranian Revolution. Those songs are not written about those themes but And I want to make that clear that it's not a kind of commandeering of those particular issues, but it felt like a good time to use music as a way in which to bring attention to those two very important causes and revolution respectively. And then the music the song that I just released, summer, is a single that's going to be off of a larger album that I'm coming out with, which will have eight or nine tracks. I'm kind of sitting with the last one and trying to see if I can do some rearrangement of a particular line and some changes in the mix to see if it will sit a bit better.

Speaker 1: 47:49

But that was a really awesome song because that's very like pop, chill, rock like, or rather pop what's it? indie pop, chill, like the California chill, and it's called Summer, so it has the very like summery type vibe And that was really lovely because I've been using that to bring awareness to the Finding a Cure for Epilepsy and Seizures Foundation, which I'm running the New York Marathon for that foundation.

Speaker 2: 48:17

So yeah so it's been a really cool time So how do you go about the avenues for somebody else who's listening to put your music out and also bring awareness to these things as well as, like, gain funding for this? Yeah, what are your steps? you've done with two, i would say, successful. You know ventures in that, thank you.

Speaker 1: 48:37

I appreciate that. Yeah, so I reach out definitely over social media and I post a lot on social media, particularly Instagram, spotify. I also do updates on Spotify regarding, you know, fundraising amounts and the organizations that I'm bringing awareness to. I do reach out directly to like friends and family and have you know a mailing list of fan-based lists that I'll send updates out to regarding those organizations and music, and then I kind of will bring it when I have a song release. I will send music, like I'll send you the track for free, oftentimes before the release date. So if you donate to a particular cause, and so the main goal is to say, like we all love music, you know I'm putting out what I think is, you know, decent music that people enjoy listening to And I will engage with you absolutely if you engage with me and kind of take a few minutes out of your day to just hear about something that is really important but you might not think about every day.

Speaker 2: 49:44

There you go. That that's the way to do it in general, like yeah, there's a lot of things going on. I think music can be used as that sort of like frontier in general Cause also, at the end of the day, it's like we're all here, we're all humans, we all need things, we all, and there's people very less fortunate us in getting to create music and put it out. It's a luxury in general. So, like helping other people in that process is definitely the way to go if you can do it.

Speaker 1: 50:13

Definitely Yeah, and it's very cool because music is like such an interesting tool to be able to say what you want to say, but in a way that can be really universal. Yeah, and, like everyone, someone asked me this the other day. They were like do you think like all art is political? I'm like, for the, for the most part, yes, cause if you think about how much music is coming out from folks that come from different backgrounds, related like to identity, like genres of music, just kind of how those intersect with their lives, like, yeah, a lot of times when I'll sing about you know a song and it has like a very queer angle on it, I know that me kind of putting that out there is going to automatically be political, or me singing about those themes are going to be political in some ways. Even if that is not my intention, other people will come and do it and make it political, yeah, so you're like might as well just call it political.

Speaker 1: 51:14

Well, yeah, and I'm like by default, if you know what I mean like it's it's a political statement or it's a social statement.

Speaker 2: 51:20

I'm generally just trying to make a love song.

Speaker 1: 51:23

Yeah. A love song, a marriage song, with a Boobiswello and like I don't know why, i did that for a Boobiswello. Yeah, exactly, but I, you know we all love good music. So we're all here, we're all happy. Look at Mike in the background. How are we doing, mr Producer Rad?

Speaker 2: 51:43

What do we have? Big big Maverick over there? Time was Two more minutes on the video.

Speaker 1: 51:49

Is this a type of podcast where we like, do, like the hot sauce, you know? they mean like, is there, like some dare at the end, or like you watch us eat like a spicy pepper? I mean like, i'm just kind of feeling out the yeah, we have.

Speaker 2: 52:06

We have few more questions. Okay, I'm kind of it. I've kind of for future things. We'll restart this in a second. For future things. I'm kind of I would love to get a little like like hot fire question session of some of some sort.

Speaker 1: 52:18

I don't mean to invite myself back, so, but if you would like to have me back, i'm very happy to do some fun.

Speaker 2: 52:28

Well, i'll bring, i'll bring a scorpion chili. Okay, one for each of us, okay, and then I'll forget mine, and then we'll be like cameras rolling.

Speaker 1: 52:37

It'll just be meeting scorpion. All right, I'll bring the nine gallons of water.

Speaker 2: 52:44

No, sorry, that's me a little fucking weird today. And we're back.

Speaker 1: 53:02

Oh, we can get it better than that ready. Three two one, no, what? three two one, purposefully.

Speaker 2: 53:16

No.

Speaker 1: 53:24

Oh god.

Speaker 2: 53:26

What gives you the most doubt about your music? or, like what, what has inhibited you from maybe creating more music than you Would like to?

Speaker 1: 53:36

that's a really good question, i think. Logistically time, the one thing that I really admire about folks like yourself Is that you have a day job that is in line with your interests outside of, like audio production and Some of the jobs like you were telling me about, and so you are just constantly surrounded by creative people and by music, even if, for example, you're not solely working on your project or someone else's project on which you're playing drums. So for me, i think there is a particular courage that comes with that commitment that I Didn't. I don't necessarily have, and I don't mean that in a bad way Towards myself. It's just my parents were very encouraging about me pursuing music, but there was definitely a balancing act between being able to support yourself financially through a more pragmatic lens and being able to pursue art as the kind of main thing, and so I will say like it gives me the benefit of having, you know, a job and a salary, and I'm very grateful for that. But I think being able to write, maybe, and kind of produce music Five to six hours if I really sit down once I get home and just say, okay, i'm not doing anything else five to six hours a day, is very different from folks that will do it professionally for like 10, 12, 14 hours a day.

Speaker 1: 55:14

But the biggest doubt I think that I would have, i think it's the question why me As in? there are so many people out there that have incredibly good ideas that the area of Improvement that I need to work on is how to market myself as, and my songs as, the selling point. So I think I was asked this question the other day by another songwriter is like why me, why my music? and I've just been replying with, well, why not Not thinking that that's the end all be all of my answer, but trying to figure out and kind of be rooted in that confidence to put myself forward and say this is what makes me unique, this is what I think is the kind of niche that I have and can fill within music, and then being able to Really bring that to the table as a legitimate thing. I think that would be, yeah, my biggest, my biggest doubt. That's a really good question. I've never been asked that before. I've never been asked that before.

Speaker 1: 56:23

It's inspiring. Yeah, welcome to the show. Now would be the time where you cut to that like meme of that guy being like, and then I go down the rabbit hole.

Speaker 2: 56:33

Now stop thinking about it. Yeah, and what is your idea of success? Just in general, not talking about music just in general.

Speaker 1: 56:46

Being happy within myself and confident within myself, having friends in my life that I can laugh with endlessly and feel very supported by, directionally, as in I support them and they support me. And then, in terms of success, there is, of course, a professional element I would love and I'll plug right now because there's nothing to lose I would love to learn from. There are songwriters that I have in mind, for example, like hope, but also when we kind of go up the tiers of songwriters, i mean Sarah Bareilles is, i think, one of the most profound songwriters of our generation and She kind of, for folks that don't know her, get pigeonholed, like she gets pigeonholed a lot when people go, oh, who is she? and everyone knows the song. I'm not gonna write you a love song, cuz you asked for it. Yeah, michael's nodding in the background like, oh, i know that song, so That song is awesome. But she has such a breath of work for her independent, like her independent albums, and then in her late 30s transitioned into writing full scores and Songs for musical theater. So waitress, which is a very successful Musical, was a musical that she wrote the score for, the music and lyrics for, and she just has the ability to cross genres in a way and maintain such a high level of lyric Content that I I would be success would be standing in a room with her as like a semi equal and asking her questions And being able to learn through her process And then at kind of like the kind of end of the road of success or like further down the road of success.

Speaker 1: 58:44

I would love to write for bands that I feel are really rooted in a view of the world and a view of people that, like I share. So my favorite band is Joseph, which is this trio from Joseph, oregon, and they are three sisters. So right then then you will appreciate this just from like the musicality aspect. They have such a tonal quality to their voices that their harmonies are truly, i think, transcendent. But because they're related and you can tell they've grown up singing together, like their blend is just something that is. I I heard it like once when I, or like when I was in high school, on like YouTube, when they used to put those weird playlists together and they were operating under this name called Dearborn, and I remember listening to their harmonies and being like they are Next level and then they fizzled out and then they popped up several years later under a new band name On those like iTunes free songs of the week, oh yeah, and I downloaded one, i was like, oh, this looks interesting.

Speaker 1: 59:54

Like the album name was called I'm alone No, you're not. And I was like that's a cool album name. And I downloaded the song not knowing what they looked like. And I played The song and I immediately I was like doing, i think, chem homework. And I immediately looked up and was like I know those harmonies, like I will, i can I that tonal quality and those heart, that harmony construction, like that Crosby stills and Nash type of like Americana harmony. I was like I would know that from anywhere. They just released a new album.

Speaker 1: 1:00:23

They have grown so much in their lyric ability because you can tell they're still growing as people. Which I think makes music so successful and so relatable is when the artist you can tell is Kind of morphing as you are morphing as the listener. So I would, if they ever I don't even know what I would say like if I could sit in a room as their semi equal and be like Which I do, i'd be like this is how I have like ideas for, for lyrics and for songs. This is how I think we're compatible. This is how I think I can help you grow. If I'm putting on my big girl pants. That would be. Success for me is to sit like in those types of situations and just to be able to try to do that.

Speaker 1: 1:01:08

Hell yeah it's a long winded answer. I love it.

Speaker 2: 1:01:14

That's great.

Speaker 1: 1:01:15

My Niles Crayon t-shirt. Please tell me you watched Fraser growing up.

Speaker 2: 1:01:21

No, no, no, I've seen it.

Speaker 1: 1:01:24

It popped on there who like in your like audience is like above, let's see, it's in the 90s or something like above 40. Oh, all of our moms, all of your mom okay, moms are gonna know David Hyde Pierce and Niles Crayon. He is one of the best characters in the history of television. I walked through Seattle because it takes place in Seattle wearing this t-shirt and people that like toss the fish in the fish market. We're like That was like. I wore this specifically place. Yeah, it's like I wore this specifically for this day.

Speaker 2: 1:02:01

Oh yeah there you go. I'd never yeah, never seen it, it's okay.

Speaker 1: 1:02:07

It's okay. Hopefully it'll be like someone comments on your video and is like the girl wearing the Niles Crayon t-shirt.

Speaker 2: 1:02:12

I'll be like we're friends, he's this fucking guy interviewing her. What else you have to say for the folks watching anybody out there?

Speaker 1: 1:02:26

Thanks for listening if you've made it this far, and I hope we've illuminated such a lovely conversation. I've had such a nice time. Thank you so much for inviting me in the podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:02:35

Thanks for coming over anytime.

Speaker 1: 1:02:37

I really do not mean to invite myself again, but this has been so fun, i'm ready to do.

Speaker 2: 1:02:43

We'll do a nice, not a hot sauce challenge. Well, that does sound fun. It'd be fun to get a season to see.

Speaker 1: 1:02:58

We get a season to see. Order from John Evans. Hi, welcome to fist. What was it first We feast? this is Sean Evans, with hot ones. Hot ones here, where we asked the really tough questions while eating really tough wings. And now on the show we have Zen Perry, pc musician out of Santa Cruz, california, and I think I'm I don't have someone, just give me a bald cap and I'll pretend like I'm Sean The best one. If you've ever seen I don't know how many of the hot ones you've seen the one with Arby Plaza, it's great is a may. Oh my god, it's so good when she's like Listening and here's the like saxophone off in the distance, and she's like if someone isn't playing the saxophone right now, i swear I fell off my chair the first time I saw that. She's amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:03:52

I'll have your files. So good, the best so good Do.

Speaker 1: 1:03:58

Oh well, thank you so much. See, i'm not very good at self promotion. What? please follow me on Spotify. Sammy Martin essay MMI Martin is the way that it's spelt. I have music on Spotify and Apple music. I ran out, honestly, because I was just endorphined out from running so I didn't want to spell anymore. But Please, yeah, follow me there. I do have social media and Instagram, sammy Martin 13, where I post a lot of music content and a lot of stuff related to the causes I care about and some really fun videos of my roommates and I just trying to just Survive survive in Brooklyn, New York, you know in Brooklyn.

Speaker 1: 1:04:41

We're all struggling, but we all make a city City, the world, the world, planet earth.

Speaker 2: 1:04:48

I don't want to talk to ourselves too much. Thank you.