Life After Medicine

The HUGE Payoff in Running Towards Your Fear with Dr. Chris Loo

November 09, 2023 Chelsea Turgeon Season 1 Episode 127
Life After Medicine
The HUGE Payoff in Running Towards Your Fear with Dr. Chris Loo
Show Notes Transcript

Do you want a career that gives you FREEDOM and FULFILLMENT, but feeltoo scared to take that leap into the unknown.

It’s hard to walk away from a stable six figure salary. Plus, conventional wisdom says that working as a healthcare professional is the pinnacle of success and job security.

Introducing, Dr. Chris Loo, a fellow residency drop out who is NOT following conventional wisdom and living a life of FREEDOM.

In this episode he shares:

  • Why there is no such thing as job security and what you need to do to create financial freedom (hint- it’s NOT relying on an employer)
  • How he followed his intuition and dropped out of residency during a financial crisis when everyone thought he was crazy.
  • How to take strategic and calculated leaps out of your comfort zone.

If you are struggling to take that leap and follow your inner knowing, Chris’s story will give you the permission and inspiration you need to step out of your comfort zone.

Links Mentioned
Show notes
Dr. Loo's Linktree
Cashflow game

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Welcome to the Life After Medicine podcast, where we help you create a fulfilling and non traditional career as a healthcare worker. I'm your host, Chelsea Turchin. In 2019, I left the hustle and grind of my OBGYN residency and set out to create a fulfilling career on my own terms. Now I'm a best selling author, career and burnout coach, and world traveler. Through this podcast, I'll show you how to enjoy your work, make an impact, and support yourself financially. Without all the stress and burnout you are currently experiencing. Let's get to the show. Five of the most common problems I see medical professionals struggling with right now, dread, Every time they drive into work, not showing up as their best selves for loved ones and really not having the energy to live their lives, jumping into a new job only to feel that same stress, same lack of fulfillment. And in the past year, having a moment that made them realize They were trapped in the wrong career. If you're experiencing any of these problems, you're not alone. The reason you feel trapped is because you have a lack of direction. Going into medicine, there's such a clear path that is all laid out for you. If you start to think about deviating from that path, there's not a clear direction. Medicine can feel like this one way street with no off ramps. And that is why I've created the Life After Medicine Facebook group. It's a place for like minded healthcare professionals to come together and Share the paths they've taken, how they've created a career that they enjoy on their own terms. So if you want to receive actionable advice from healthcare professionals who are creating careers that give them freedom and fulfillment, come join us in the Life After Medicine Facebook group today. Click the link in the show notes. You can join the Facebook group and start working towards a career that gives you freedom and fulfillment. I'll see you inside. Hello at my lab. Welcome to the best of the life after medicine podcast series. Where we are bringing you four of our top episodes from the archives. And let me tell you, it's been so much fun to go through the archives and go through these episodes and find the ones that I feel are most relevant for you that are going to give you exactly the medicine that you need right now. And so this episode is so special because it's literally the second episode that I ever published on the life after medicine podcast. And it's good. This is an interview I did with Dr. Chris Lou who got his MD PhD from Baylor and rice. Then went on to his orthopedic residency then in 2008, during his second year of residency and right in the peak of the financial crisis. He heard his intuition telling him. You're living a lie and that you need to go. Leave residency find your true nature and your true purpose. And he listened. He left residency and he started building up multiple streams of income was able to retire with financial independence at 38 years old. Now he actively speaks and coaches, other physicians to achieve financial freedom through investing and creating multiple passive income streams. So if right now, You are longing for a career that gives you freedom and fulfillment. But you feel too scared to take that leap into the unknown. This episode is going to be so perfect for you because I get it. It is hard to walk away from that promise of a stable six-figure salary. And conventional wisdom tells us that working as a healthcare professional is just the pinnacle of success. Prestige job security. But Dr. Chris Lu. In this episode, he is a fellow residency dropout. He is not following conventional wisdom and he is living a life of freedom. And in this episode, he shares. More perspectives around that. Why there's no such thing as job security and what you need to do to create financial freedom. And it's not relying on an employer. Just so we're clear. He talks about how he followed his intuition and dropped out of residency during a financial crisis. When literally everyone thought he was crazy. And he discusses how to take strategic and calculated leaps out of your comfort zone. So for in that place right now, where you are struggling to take that leap, struggling to follow your inner sense of knowing. Chris's story and this conversation will give you the permission and the inspiration. That you need to step out of your comfort zone. So without further ado, let's jump into the episode. At 29 years old. So first of all, that is exactly how old I am right now. And I'm definitely not at that place of financial freedom, but I would just love to hear how are you able to do that, especially because you were going through getting your MD and PhD. So how did you balance all those things? How did you achieve financial freedom at that super young age? lIke a lot of individuals I I grew up on the cusp of Gen X and millennials. I was always exposed to two different generational influences. So with Gen X, done the version of the baby boomers. So baby boomers always stuck to safety, security. You got a job, you come the corporate ladder social security was gonna fund your retirement while millennials were going to change the world. They were fighting out against political, social oppression, and they were not going to tolerate and live, Based on values and ideals that didn't resonate with them. So I got exposed to those two. And for me, it was always my motive mo was always freedom. We always equate freedom with financial freedom. We always equate, financial freedom with having a stable job, high paying job, but with the internet that was disrupted back in 2000. So that was always my motive. So I started educating myself about financial freedom. What did it mean? And it came down to four types of freedom. One is we have financial freedom that I discussed earlier. We also have time freedom. So basically we're able to make money in our sleep. Our money can work for us. Our business can work for us. So that's time. We also have location freedom, which is what you have. You're able to travel to different countries, live in different countries and be able to function. You're building out your podcast. And then we have emotional freedom, which is what all of us as humans are out for. So you have that a lot of people that are changing the world have that. But it's something that's lacking and not really emphasized in our society. So I started educating myself. What are those four components? How and I started breaking it down just reverse engineering. How do you get to those different types of freedom, where the components, and how can I. take action to have a well balanced life. So basically in my early twenties, I read rich dad, poor dad. Another book I read was multiple streams of income. I was so fortunate to come across that book because that really changed. My perception of what financial freedom was because with the tech boom and the tech bust and with 9 11 I had a lot of my friends out in the working world. So they were working for tech startups in Silicon Valley, they're working on wall street, but after 9 11, a lot of them lost their jobs. So I, I saw that firsthand and I was like in these days and age, if you have a, high six figure paying job in your early twenties, and you can get let go at any moment, based on just random events then there's no really such thing as job security. So I started to really delve into the different types of income that you could generate. In order to achieve that really started to ramp these ideas and concepts during my graduate school years because I was doing a PhD. I was on the campus of Rice University right now it's one of ranked one of the top business schools for venture capitalism angel investing. And startup, so I saw a lot of undergrads, they were starting online companies and they were becoming millionaires in at the age of 1920, 21, that motivated me. And I was greatly influenced by those. I sat in on a lot of MBA courses. I started networking. I started surrounding myself with all of these entrepreneurs. And from that, I start, I created 2 companies. 1 was trading options. And from there I was able to generate a lot of cash flow and I pour those profits into real estate. So I had to rental properties by the time I was 29 that was my final year of medical school. And so you know I had a stable nest egg, I was pretty much financially independent from there, but the funny thing is, so I have this like side business that I'm doing. I'm also a medical student, and it's my senior year, and everybody's applying for residencies. That route didn't really appeal to me, but that was the route that 99 percent of everybody was doing. So I go to my deans and and the first thing he's, he asked me is what are your career aspirations. So I was like, I want to be rich. I want to be financially free. I want to change the world. He's you should go into a high paying specialty, get board certified and, have a career, that sort of thing. He wasn't looking at it from an entrepreneur standpoint. And really I was looking, I go down the list and I was really uninspired and really not motivated by. Any of the specialties, but I settled on some of the high paying specialties just because of the income, a lot of those were glamorized by society and media and classmates, which were the most competitive. So settle on orthopedics, that's some kind of, good fit. And I was lucky I matched into it, but I move up to New Jersey, I went to. Rutgers. And I walk in on the first day, it's the, and I instantly knew I had made a wrong choice. It's just it's not a, it's your subconscious or your intuition just knows that you're veering off. You're on the wrong path. I knew that. But I still toughed it out for two years and there was just one point in my my second year, which was the 2008 crisis where I saw the Lehman brothers, Bear Stearns, all collapsing. The CEO is getting rich off entire. taxpayers. And I was just like, Oh, this is not right. And I just, I couldn't look myself in the eye one morning during my second year. And I was like, I'm living a lie. You really have to, and my intuition said that you really have to go out and discover your true passions and your true nature. So it was interesting cause I had a Investing background, I was able to generate income on my own. So when 2008 was happening, everybody was losing their jobs. Everybody was losing their houses. And so I took a leap of faith. I ran towards that fear when everybody was running away from fear when everybody was running scared. I Ran towards it. So I started investing in single family residences from 2008 to 2016. Just, taking action doing this quietly accumulating residential real estate property. I lost touch with a lot of my colleagues and classmates, but by the time I was 38, which was 2016, I had become financially free. So I would never need a. Job. I would never need to work for a boss. I didn't need to work for a corporation. I didn't need to depend on social security. When the so for example, last year, when, everybody was struggling, my online businesses and income streams were ramping up and doing well. This is a sort of freedom that I'm promoting and and I'm happy to answer questions from there. Yeah, you touched on so many amazing topics. So one of the first things that you mentioned was. How there's no such thing as job security, how so many people have this idea that I can't quit my job because this job is my source of safety and my source of security. But then you saw firsthand from your friends who were. Getting fired from their tech jobs with these big six figure salaries and just getting fired, that's not always true. So why do you think people equate their jobs with security? And how is that not true? And what is actual security? I think our school system trains us to it's, it starts with early education. And I know the school system is trying to just. Mass produce a lot of people that can go out in the working world and, be productive in their jobs and contribute to the GDP. And so it's not really it's not really intention that the school system is trying to make people poor, but that's just the, it just, it's failed to adapt to the way our information age has Progressed. In the past it was the top wage earners were the the professionals. So you have the lawyers, the doctors, engineers, dentists. So those were the top of the pyramid. But now what's happening is with the creative age is that now the creatives and the entrepreneurs, those are the ones sitting at the top of the pyramid. Last year we saw the. During the pandemic, business filings were up 46%. And also the number of people that just flat out quit their jobs was at an all time high to go out and start their passions or dream businesses. The other interesting trend is, right now you look and see there's Tons of job openings, you walk down and you just see tons and tons of looking for help. But people don't want those kinds of jobs anymore. They want the jobs that pay well, but also treat them well that give them the ability to work remotely, resonate with their own values. So that's one reason, but and then the, just the idea that. The way this school system ingrains in us is that we can't go out and create our own economic success. We have to depend upon a job or profession or a boss or a government for that success. So in other words, it reinforces the idea that we have to always be working for someone else. So the other idea is that for job. Like job security, in the past that really worked because you could become a professional, you could earn a high income and you could climb the corporate ladder. And that was all great. But now the paradigm shifted because now we live in a extremely rapidly changing, highly dynamic, really disruptive times where, you know, the average lifespan of a company. In the past, it was 50 to 60 years. Sometimes it's five to six months. So that's how fast, technology has been able to disrupt the job landscape. So if you're thinking about job stability and job safety and security, the best type of stability and security is one is to be able to go out and create your own economic success. And so You see a lot of entrepreneurs and business people and investors. They have a confidence because no matter what happens, they're able to go out and create their own freedom their own success. It doesn't depend on what the market is doing. It doesn't depend upon any conditions they know that they have the experience to be able to create those income streams so that's one thing that creatives entrepreneurs the other thing is investors. So you're able to, you understand money, you understand how it's created. You understand how to save, grow, invest it, how to multiply it. And so what happens is that you're able to develop multiple streams of income. I talk about this idea of multiple streams of income because in today's time, it's really important because it's almost like you're buying health insurance or car insurance, life insurance, and all these different types. The ability to create multiple streams of income is insurance against these types of events that are happening today. So if you're able to understand and able to invest that money and you're able to Grow and create value no, independent of a job, then you're that much better off. And so the other thing I wanted to point out is that, so we live in a society that's just I call it a Disney world fairy tale. It's in its. It's perpetuated by media. It's, you're supposed to go to college. You're supposed to, get a job. You're supposed to get married. You're supposed to have kids, you're supposed to have that white picket fence house. And that's the only thing that is advocated. So you have to follow this predetermined path. And it's actually That's not the way 99 percent of the world works. So if you're not if you don't know yourself or if you are, if you follow the path, less travel, then you try and subscribe to these ideals. You're going to fail because you don't, because you just don't fit into that paradigm. So that's one thing is so I'll give you a recent example. A good friend of mine she followed this well. Beaten path, got married, went to college, had a really nice career, but then because she didn't know herself, she wasn't ready, at the age of 30, found herself, divorce. Like I said, our society is changing such that we have so many more different options and so many different avenues. To subscribe to just one little. Ideas is short sighted. I love the way that you define like job security as just like having the ability to create your own economic success. And like the way that investors and entrepreneurs just have, it sounds like when you realize that you are the source of your own value, you're the source of your own like economic success. And you trust yourself to be able to create and generate revenue and income in different ways. Once you have that trust in yourself. Then that's the security that you need and that's really what it comes down to is like knowing that you are the source of your income and it's not that it comes from one job or one employer or one person finding your paycheck. It comes from you and the value that you bring to the table and no one can take that away from you. And especially when you have those multiple income streams and that you're really like hedging against. Different catastrophes happening, then you just feel really safe and secure. So I love the way that you're talking about that, but then also I want to talk about all the Disney World stuff that you mentioned as well, because that's so true, right? There's this formula that we're given. For success and happiness, where if you check all these boxes, then you're going to be happy. And I totally follow this as well. I think all of us do because we don't, a lot of us are choosing our career paths and our life paths when we're like maybe 18 and going into college or like 22 when we've just graduated from college. And we're so young and we don't know any better. We don't know ourselves really. Of course we rely on input from the outside world and that's. That's why we end up like, someone gives us this little formula Hey, if you just do this, you'll be happy. It sounds great. But then once we started to follow it, and some of it works for some people, but it doesn't work for everyone. And it definitely didn't work for me. It sounds like it didn't work for you. So it is important for us to just critically look at ourselves in our lives and to see if the life that we're creating is actually working for us. And so I love the things you talked about when you were first sharing your story about. Your intuition in your own path when you said that you walked in to orientation on the first day and you immediately knew you had made a wrong decision, how did you know, I know you said it's hard to describe, but can you try to put into words what you were feeling or what made you know So July 1st, 2007 was when I first day of residency, but, and then it's actually a combination of a lot of things that happened during medical school. So I was in my rotations on my second year. And I, and one thing I see is one is the residents there. All of them are unhappy. And I'm like I'm just this bright, enthusiastic, I just wanna learn, and all of'em are just like negative. A lot of the attendings they had undergone multiple divorces. They're just angry. Just unhealthy, overweight, sick you name it. So I started to question, I'm like why am I saying this? Because I just got, I got curious why is it that you struggle so hard? And, for a life like this, a lot of them didn't have time. So they were just, they were making good money, but they were emotionally unhappy. They couldn't go anywhere and they didn't have time. So there were only one and there, and they were getting more and more. They were going down the wrong path. I started to see is part of it was part of the healthcare system because managed care back in 2000. that's when they started to all these mandates. I'm like, with 911 happening, managed care, I'm like, oh, I have to start doing something in case I become like them and I didn't want to become like them. So I started, that's why I started investing and started educate myself. I also started to look at people I wanted to emulate. I started reading a lot about Bill Gates. I started to read about Warren Buffett. All of these billionaires who are changing the world who are economically successful and who are also emotionally free and like their paradigms and the paradigms I was seeing in medical school were not the same. So I'm like, Oh, there's a disconnect here. I go to my Dean, my second year and I go, I go why am I seeing this? And she couldn't give me a good answer. And I was just like, I'm like she can't give me a good answer. She's just medical schools like this residencies like this, just tough it out. At the end of there is light at the end of the tunnel and it will be worth it. So I, I continue and it was just like, just, A whole series of, and then with the 2007, 2008, I saw the entire country almost collapsed because of the greed of capitalists. And, I just saw, and then, all of us were on the hook for their mistakes. So I'm like, this system is not right. That was part of it. The other part of it was I wanted to do something. I wanted to do something different. I didn't want to. I don't want to work 120 plus hours and be miserable and, just for a seven figure salary. I wanted to be able to, create a business that provided a seven figure salary, where I could contribute and change the world and offer value and based on my own creative endeavors and my own creative strengths. It was just interesting. It's like you, you just, you walk in and you just know. It's just, it's your intuition knows, because, like you're, it's almost because you have, we have a lot of neurons from our brain to our gut. And, it's like your brain, heart and gut, they communicate and sometimes it's conscious, sometimes it's unconscious, a lot of times it's unconscious, but when it's comes to your conscious awareness, you. You should listen to it. Either whether that's physical harm, emotional harm getting into the wrong relationships, getting into the wrong businesses your intuition. And so that's how I can describe it. The other way I describe it is that I had so I went to. I went to Baylor for medical school. That was my top choice. I worked my butt off to get in. It was the best seven years of my life. I go the well trodden path to do this residency. And, under anybody's eyes, getting into orthopedic residencies, that's quite an accomplishment. Yeah. If anyone listening doesn't know, orthopedics is like one of the most competitive specialties. So that's a huge deal to get into ortho. And then and it's match day, it's March, 2007. I opened my letter and my just heart just sank. And I had no idea. I was like, it was just like, it's just, that's my, that was my, it was not smile. It was not elation. It was, I opened my letter and my heart sank. And so I'm like, something is wrong here. I felt like I wasn't living the life I was. meant to be In contrast to a sense of elation, it's a sense of dread. It's Oh, I worked this hard to get this. And this is what I'm feeling. So it's almost depressing that you actually achieve your goal, for that average listener, there's, they might be thinking, Oh, you're not grateful or, things like that, but, we all have, we're not, we're all created to pursue our highest calling in our, our highest destiny. Sometimes you follow this well trodden path, and it's really not the best path for you. But that's, yeah, that's how I describe it. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. And I fully believe that as well, when you said we're all created. To follow our own highest calling, and there's nothing wrong with matching into an ortho residency and being an orthopedic surgeon, but it's wrong if it's the wrong path for you personally, and so only like only you can know what is the right path for you and like you said like you felt like you weren't living the life that you were meant to be living. And when you're not following your own path, it's just filled with those feelings of dread, those feelings of your heart sinking, those feelings of anxiety. And like, when you talked about where you felt like you couldn't look yourself in the eye, it's because you're not living the path that you were meant to be living. And it has nothing to do with gratitude, right? It's you can be so grateful that for everything you have. and still want something different. You don't have to guilt. Like I think people use gratitude and that whole thing as a way to like guilt or shame themselves out of going after what they really want. And it's a strange way to do it. But I hear people do that all the time. You're totally right. Then people are like I should just be grateful for what I have. And it's sure. Great. Okay. You can be grateful for what you have and decide you want something different. You don't have to keep something. And also it's if it's actually meant for someone else, right? If someone else is better suited to go to orthopedics, then it doesn't make sense for you to stay in it if that's not right for you anyway. Yeah, we don't have to feel our shame ourselves. sO one of the other things you talked about was how you. You ran towards your fear like that day in 2008 where you like realize you couldn't look yourself in the eye anymore Yeah, you ran towards your fear So what is what does that look like running towards you feel like taking that lead running towards fear? And how were you able to do that? What mindset shifts did you need to make or how? Yeah, how are you able to psych yourself up to run towards your fear? Any strategies you have for people who might be like wanting to know? Yeah I tell everybody that 2008 is the best thing that happened for me, because as opposed to people losing their jobs in their houses, their livelihoods, it's the best thing that happened to me because it it was the catalyst for me to actually turn in my resignation letter and, and then turn in my keys. If 2008 hadn't happened, I would have completed residency, but in fellowship, but I think I would have been at this point stage, I probably, would be, severely depressed, probably battling a lot of different issues. So 2008 was the best thing that happened. And what is it, what does it look like? So it's really hard to describe because I saw 2001 I saw 2008 and I saw last year as not crises, but opportunities either financially either opportunities to grow. So I grew a ton last year, did so many collaborations. So I view don't I live under the model. Don't let a. Good prices go to waste. A lot of people turn to starting their own businesses. A lot of people turn to looking towards alternative streams of income. A lot of people look for different types of employment during this time. IT's really hard because you're, it's the hardest thing is because we want to be accepted as we're heard creatures. So we want to be accepted socially. We don't want to stand out. We don't we're a lot of fear based. We don't want to make mistakes. And a lot of the, a lot of those times, those keep us, from actually fulfilling our true potential. And it just, it takes a lot. It takes courage. It takes a leap of faith. A lot of people can't do what I did. And, a lot of my colleagues, 13 years later they saw me or. 13 years ago, they saw me as, crazy and throwing my future away. But I tell everybody that if you run towards your fear, it has to be calculated in strategic. You have to, you have to plan ahead for these types of things. You have to have your finances in order, you have to have a lot of things in order, but like 2008, that was the one of the, I see that if at the. In 50 or 60 years, when I'm on my deathbed, I would say that 2008 was the single best decision I've ever made thus far because it was so important because it gave me 25 years of time freedom. Now I'm able to Impact people. I'm able to speak. I'm able to help other people. I'm able to inspire people. But at the same time, it was the biggest gamble I've ever made. But it was again, it was calculated and strategic and it paid off huge. So that's the type of rewards you can. Have if you run towards your fear, and I always say the greater the risk, the greater the reward. Whether it's in a career a business, a relationship, whatever, the greater the risk, the greater the reward. So you have to be able to really step outside of your comfort zone and really face your fear. And it's almost like I described it. If you. If you ever been skydiving, it's like you have you have your coach behind you. He's, he or she's protecting you and you're at the edge of the the airplane and you're looking at the world below you and you just have to take that plunge and, Your mind, your reptilian mind is saying, Oh no, because you're going to, you're jumping, 30, 000, 40, 000 feet, you're, but you have a parachute, you have a coach behind you. And a lot of times the risks that we take in our own lives, aren't as risky as jumping out of a plane. It's just that inborn it's that social conditioning, it's that herd mentality and it's, it's just that fear. What if I can't. Yeah, absolutely. No, that's. It's so great. I love what you talked about of, yes, it's, you're running towards fear and you're taking a leap and there's some calculations to it. So it's both right. Like there, it is a gamble for sure. Cause you don't know how it's going to turn out. And at the same time you do some things to be strategic and to set yourself up for success. Cause I think a lot of times we can just psych ourselves out of doing anything because we let our fear be this really vague, Oh my gosh, if I quit my job, it's like jumping off a cliff. And while there is a leap to it, it doesn't have to really be jumping off of a cliff. You said like you get your finances in order, you get some strategies in place so that it's not that you're blindly doing any of this. And it still does feel. It doesn't have that jarring sense of what is going to happen from here. A lot of the things you've talked about, like with financial freedom and these multiple streams of income, I'd love to go a little bit more into some, maybe some practical strategies for anyone who's listening. So first I'd love to know what is your definition of financial freedom? What does that actually mean? And then for anyone who's listening, what would be Maybe just a few steps they could take to just get started on that journey towards financial freedom. Yeah, sure. So there's two. So one is financial independence. So financial independence means that you so basically you have either you have a job or you have a business or company, you have investments, you're able to, you're able to effectively and efficiently trade your time for money. So that's what I believe. Okay. Define as financial independence you're able to generate your own income. And you're able to save, you're able to invest, you're able to pay your bills, and you have, pretty okay quality of life. There's the downside of financial independence is that you're still dependent upon something. The, how does that differ from financial freedom? So financial freedom means that in my playbook and I this is what I tell people in my speeches is that financial freedom. So if you were to lose your, all your sources of income today, for example, what happened last year in March, you could still, it would have no effect or bearing upon your lifestyle your current. Your travel where are your food, that sort of thing you would be set. And that's what financial freedom in my playbook means, you're set for the rest of your life. So that could be in the form of savings. You can have a very savings could be from an investments or it could be from, businesses. It could also be you're you're the. Top person on your company and you're the CEO, or, you have very stable footing in your professional life. So that's what financial freedom means. There's another definition I recently encountered, which means that financial immunity, which means that. Disability, a divorce, one of your businesses go under, it has no effect on your current lifestyle. So that's what financial immunity means. How do you start building towards financial immunity and financial freedom? So one thing, especially for your listeners is to increase your savings rate. We, so one thing is, for physicians, it's. Recommended 20 percent if you save 20 percent of your earned income and you put them into a low cost index funds over a period of 20, 30, 40, 40 years, you can achieve financial freedom. So that's the most safest, easiest, effective way. If you have a, a good paying job, increase your savings rate. So the, I think mainstream is. Advocating for 10 percent but for physicians 20 percent or more, you can actually increase your savings rate by increasing your sources of passive income. So your passive income. So from real estate or from dividends from bonds, royalties, books programs, that sort of thing. If they, if you can meet, make your passive income meet your. Current expenses, then that's quote your quote financially free because that basically you're not trading your time for money anymore. And you have, you're able to create income to meet your expenses such that, you're, doing what you're doing, you can travel or, you can create a business and that sort of thing. One thing that's very interesting is for, especially for high income earners, if I recommend one of these resources, if you go to rich dad. com, he has a game, it's a free game called cashflow. And it's really interesting is because he has two different categories and it's the objective of the game is to how fast you can get to a financial freedom. And so one, one occupation. Is like a lawyer, doctor, and the another occupation, is like a lower paid. But what's interesting is that you'll find that the lower paid occupations can achieve financial freedom faster because their expenses are much lower, as opposed to, a doctor or lawyer, they have, a huge high expense. So their ability to reach financial freedom is less because they have to create those passive income streams to meet their expenses. So if you can cut your expenses down one of the models is save a resident live like a resident. If you can, live. Comfortably and within your means, you save more, you invest more that can get you to financial freedom more. The more advanced strategies include real estate investing, investing in syndicates a lot of now I'm focused on a lot of accredited investors. So like IPOs and hedge funds and real estate syndicates. Yeah, As you move towards higher and higher up the food chain, you can participate in more and more different opportunities. But the easiest way is to increase your savings rate, cut your expenses and invest in low cost index funds. And then after that, learn about real estate. Real estate is some of the best Vehicles because, has so many tax advantages. The other another way is to, create an online business. So you through books through courses through coaching blogging, that those are very low, you don't need a lot of, money to start those. And those have really high returns and high margins. Look into those. Yeah. I love all of those tips so much. I'm excited to play the cashflow game from rich dad and see what I can learn from that. And just the idea of creating multiple sources of passive income, figuring out what. Type source of passive income screens work best for you and using that to increase your sources of passive income to match your expenses and achieving a sense of financial freedom in that way. That's, yeah, those are all really awesome tips. Thank you so much. And so this kind of plays into the work that you're doing now. So now you have this really successful career as a speaker, a consultant coach, and one of your missions is advocating for financial literacy and freedom for physicians. So with that what are you most excited about right now? Can you tell us a little bit more about what it is that you're doing now? Yeah. So I have a couple of things. You mentioned my mission. So my mission like my bigger purpose and goal is to to advocate for financial literacy. And help people get out of bondage debt help people to create their best lives. Whether it's starting a business and. That's my overall mission. So the way I do it is actually a lot. It's quite varied. So one is I wrote my four books. You can check those out on Amazon. Those were my very first passive sources of income for my brand. So that's the first thing. The second thing is through speaking engagements. Recently with the pandemic, everything's moved to virtual. So now I'm able to do, multiple virtual speaking events, in 1 sitting. So it's really leveraged and scaled my ability to speak and at. Low, much lower cost. The other thing is I do a lot of consulting right now. And a lot of my time is now focused on creating platforms. So I've created my financial freedom for physicians podcast that, brings on guests such as yourself. Yours is going to release on Monday, I think. And then yeah. And I've created my YouTube channel, my Instagram channel Facebook, TikTok, Twitter. Yeah. Clubhouse as well. And it's just really, it's been really fruitful. And, so many people. My followers and audience are reaching out to me, either for podcasts or for collaborations, or they just, how that it's just so meaningful when people say, my courses touched their lives. I'm really the most thing I'm really excited about is just growing the brand and just growing a bigger presence and just influencing and impacting more people. You guys can't see him right now, but he's just getting so excited. And he's so lit up talking about his mission and the way that he's impacting people. And so do you feel like now that you're living the life that you were meant to be living? Yeah, honestly, it's really, it's a good fit for what I'm a creative and I'm a creative entrepreneur. So I love just impacting people. And I love creating communities and platforms that can reach tens of thousands of people. As a surgeon, you're just, You're doing four or five surgeries a day. You're helping five people, over time that builds up, but, with with a brand, you can impact millions, and so that's one, but the interesting thing is I do a lot of meditation and visualization. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. In the next 10, 15, 20 years, I, I want to see. More impact and more growth and just helping people. And so that's it's just the tip of the iceberg. So just the beginning you're such a big dreamer. And I love that because I am a huge dreamer as well. And I totally feel you that, yeah, this is just the start. There's so much more coming for you, but it sounds like you're on the right path to make all of this unfold. Yeah. Once, once you're taking these leaps and really following your intuition, even when it is going against the grain and going against the well trodden path which it can be so scary, even when you're having success with it, it still feels scary. So it's not an easy path, but it. It's so worth it and so rewarding and I can just tell from how excited you are right now that this is absolutely the right thing for you. So if guests want to connect with you after the show, ask you any questions about financial freedom, any of that where's the best place for them to reach you or connect with you? They can subscribe to the financial freedom for physicians podcast. They can also, I'm also my YouTube channel, which is you just type in Christopher H. Lou, MD, PhD. Those are my 2 biggest brands. I'm also on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. I'm building out my interest profile as well Pinterest and and they can also email me at Christopher Lou MD, PhD my also what my website is also Dr. Chris MD, phd. com. They can go there, enter in their email address and, we'll someone on the team will get in touch with them. Oh, perfect. Thank you so much, Chris. Yeah, so he's basically on all the platforms. I'll include his links to all the different places in the show notes and just on your favorite platform sounds like you can find Chris and reach out to him. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Life After Medicine podcast. Make sure to leave a review and subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. If you want to continue the conversation, share your takeaways, and connect with other like minded healthcare workers, then come join us in the Life After Medicine Facebook group. The link to join the group is in the show notes. I can't wait to connect with you further.