How do you know when it’s time to quit your job? There are so many things that can keep us from really pulling the trigger on resigning from a job. Not having a clear direction for what’s next. Not being sure if YOUR the problem or if the workplace is the problem. Not sure exactly how to go about the process of quitting. This episode will help you put all of these concerns into perspective so you can feel more empowered in making the decision to resign from your job.
In this episode, Dr. Sonia Ashok shares
I’m so excited for you to listen in to this insightful and practical conversation with Dr. Sonia Ashok.
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Welcome to the Life After Medicine podcast, where we help you create a fulfilling and non traditional career as a healthcare worker. I'm your host, Chelsea Turchin. In 2019, I left the hustle and grind of my OBGYN residency and set out to create a fulfilling career on my own terms. Now I'm a best selling author, career and burnout coach, and world traveler. Through this podcast, I'll show you how to enjoy your work, make an impact, and support yourself financially. Without all the stress and burnout you are currently experiencing. Let's get to the show. Five of the most common problems I see medical professionals struggling with right now, dread, Every time they drive into work, not showing up as their best selves for loved ones and really not having the energy to live their lives, jumping into a new job only to feel that same stress, same lack of fulfillment. And in the past year, having a moment that made them realize They were trapped in the wrong career. If you're experiencing any of these problems, you're not alone. The reason you feel trapped is because you have a lack of direction. Going into medicine, there's such a clear path that is all laid out for you. If you start to think about deviating from that path, there's not a clear direction. Medicine can feel like this one way street with no off ramps. And that is why I've created the Life After Medicine Facebook group. It's a place for like minded healthcare professionals to come together and Share the paths they've taken, how they've created a career that they enjoy on their own terms. So if you want to receive actionable advice from healthcare professionals who are creating careers that give them freedom and fulfillment, come join us in the Life After Medicine Facebook group today. Click the link in the show notes. You can join the Facebook group and start working towards a career that gives you freedom and fulfillment. I'll see you inside. How do you know when it's time to quit your job? Such a big question. And there's so many things that can keep us from pulling the trigger and resigning from a job. Even when we feel like it's not the right fit for us. Even when we drive going into work every day. There's so many things that keep us feeling trapped. Like not having a clear direction for what's next. Not being sure, like, if it's you that are the problem or if it's the workplace that's the problem. Or not being sure, just, how do you even go about the process of quitting? Most people listening to this probably haven't really quit that much before. And so there's just a lot of questions and concerns and fears that come up and This episode will help you put all of these concerns into perspective so you can feel more empowered in making that decision to resign from your job. In this episode, Dr. Sonia Ashok shares why you don't need to create a 5 year plan before quitting your job. Shocking. I know. We're all about defying traditional career advice around here, so I'm all for it. She talks about the red flags that you need to look for to determine if you're in a toxic work environment, right? To answer, am I the problem? Is it me? Or is it the workplace? And really how to figure that out and tease, tease that out for yourself. And then how to avoid quiet quitting and rage quitting so that you can quit on your best day. I am so excited for you guys to listen in to this conversation that's practical and insightful and really, if you are struggling with the idea of should I quit my job or not or when should I do it or how or what, this is the conversation and the episode for you and so let's dive right in. Hello, my loves. Welcome back to another episode of the life after medicine podcast. I am so excited that you pressed play today. Today we have a conversation with a very special guest. Dr. Sonia Ashok, who is a California based career and leadership coach and founder of the Connective Coalition, a community created to advocate for workplace empowerment after quitting medicine without pursuing residency training. Sonia successfully pivoted into health policy and then tech startups and her experiences navigating career advancement and toxic environments inspired her to support others in climbing the ladder and thriving at work. She is a certified diversity, equity, and inclusion specialist, plant lover, and twin aunt. Thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And so first, I really want to get into your story. So take us back to that time when you're making that decision to quit medicine without pursuing residency. I know that's just such a big decision. And I have so many clients and people in my community who are grappling with that right now. So tell us about what that was like for you and how you made that decision. Yeah, so as probably many people who are listening today, you yourself, I always wanted to be a doctor from a very young age, have a parent who's a physician and I was good at science and even worked at my dad's office growing up. So it really just made the most sense. That's what I'm going to do with my life. And I was a pre med. I excelled in that, got into medical school and very quickly realized this is not for me in my soul, in my gut. I don't belong here. I don't want to be doing this truly within the first few weeks of my first year of med school. And as I went through, I talked to my parents said, this is not for me. I think I need to leave. I think I need to do something different. And the advice that I got was, nobody likes med school. This isn't fun. You're not going to like it, but you'll like it once you get out and you become a doctor. I wasn't necessarily convinced, but I stayed in and I went through. There were things that I liked about medicine. And I really connected to certain pieces of, the pathology and the patients. And I got into my third year and I said, okay, I think I know what I want to do. I think I want to pursue OBGYN. So similar to you. And it happened to be the OBGYN was my last rotation of third year. I Was still keeping an open mind. I was going through all of my rotations, trying to see what I liked, what I didn't like about each. I really wasn't feeling connected. And I got to OBGYN and I dealt with a lot of politics and I enjoyed the people I enjoyed the work in terms of the patients, but I wasn't enjoying the rotation and I did a couple of other subspecialty rotations in my 4th year. And essentially, I sat down to write my personal statement. For am cast to submit my application to residency and I burst into tears. I wrote the sentence, I want to go into OBGYN because and I could not finish it. And I knew at that time, there's no way I can't keep doing this. And then to rewind a little bit and actually give a bit more context of how that also came to be is when I was a freshman in college, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. And I persevered throughout undergrad. And med school, but as I was going through, I was realizing that lack of sleep inability to take care of myself not being able to eat. Not being able to exercise was really taking a toll on me. And in addition to not feeling connected to the work. I also recognized that if I didn't take care of myself, if I wasn't able to slow down enough to do the things that I needed to do to nourish my body, I was never going to be able to sustainably take care of other people. And so that was a huge decision, but. As you can see, it was a long time coming. It was something that I needed to do, and I couldn't even imagine doing even one year of residency. People were trying to convince me, do that transitional year, get your medical license. I simply couldn't. And while it was a very big and very difficult decision, I feel like. Medicine is this fast moving train that has no other stops than just the very, very end. I had to jump off of that moving train and it was a brave decision, but it was the only decision for me. Wow. Oh my gosh. There's so many parts of that I want to get into and unpack. And so just thank you for opening up and sharing that journey with us. And there are so many parts in that I've heard over and over again from. People who joined my Facebook group, people who joined my group programs it's just such a common story of having this sense of knowing pretty early on. This is not for me. Oh, this is not what I thought it was. Like, just having some kind of gut sense of this is not right. But then society in the external world. Essentially tries to convince you that you don't know yourself and that you don't know how to make decisions in a way that is correct for you. What do you feel like? Why do we do that? Like, why does society try to talk us out of listening to ourselves? And then why is it so easy to follow along with that? Because it sounds like you knew a few weeks in and then four years later, then you really had to actually confront it and finally make the decision. Yeah, I think that medicine is such a unique career because it is a calling and there is so much prestige around it and especially in a lot of cultures, including my own medicine is, you're taking care of other people. It is a noble profession and there truly isn't anything else like it, which is true. And. I think that the difficult piece is that when you do have that aptitude, when you do have that intelligence, when you do step onto that path, when you do get onto that train, it's very difficult for people to understand why you would ever want to get off because it is. In many people's minds, the best thing that you can do, it's less a matter of listening to yourself and knowing, but truly, there just could never be another way. Why would you choose something different? When this is available to you, yeah, just like not even being able to comprehend that another option would appeal to you more than this sort of cream de la crème of society where you're like, made it to the top. And it's so interesting that's the perception of it when the reality of living. It doesn't tend to feel like that for most people, even if on the outside, it looks glamorous on the inside. For many people, especially when it's not the correct path for you, it definitely doesn't even matter what it looks like on the outside because of how it feels on the inside. And I think that's so important to start listening to. And I think it's, I just think it's incredible that you were able to finally listen to yourself, right? And I say, finally, just after a couple of years, some people spend years and years not listening to themselves. And so just the fact that you were able to. Sit down with your personal statement and have that moment of self honesty where you're trying to write it and the words don't come out. And the, it's just not there for you. I think that's just so relatable. Because I remember when I was writing my personal statements, both to get into medical school and then for residency. I just remember it didn't feel natural. And I'm good at writing and I'm good with words. And so I was like, what's a story that does sound good? Instead of trying to ask myself what are my authentic reasons for wanting to do this? I was really taking it as like, how can I create a masterpiece of a statement? So I think it's, I think it's great that you were able to take that pause. And use that as like self honesty. Yeah. Thank you. And so after you made that decision, did you have something else lined up right away? Did you know what else you would be doing? Or was it just, you decided to not do residency, but you didn't know what else was next? What was that process? I didn't have anything lined up immediately when I first decided, when I first Left the computer, the blinking cursor at my personal statement. I, again, I went to my parents. I said, I don't want to do this. And there was a lot of back and forth discussion about, okay, are there other medical specialties that can support you from a health perspective that aren't going to be so physically demanding and on your feet and all of those kinds of things. And I did consider those for a moment, but ultimately what I decided to do was fall back on my undergraduate major, which was public health and try to pursue something related to that. But I didn't feel confident enough in my undergraduate education to be able to just create a career from that. Truly, there weren't a lot of mentors. There wasn't a lot of advice. Advice out there about what you can do if you have a medical degree and you don't want to pursue medical practice. So I think if I had better mentors or some kind of advice, I may have chosen a different path, but because I didn't, I felt okay, what I need to do is get another degree. And so I got my master's in public health and. I started out in one program, family and community health, but very quickly realized that what was exciting to me was health policy and management. And this was in 2008. So we had just, while I was in school, we just elected a new president, Barack Obama talking about. Reforming health care. It was a really great time to go into that policy space. And so I did that one year masters. I graduated. I moved to D. C. As you mentioned at the top of the podcast. I worked in policy. And other things. So I spent a few years in policy in the nonprofit space in the DC government working for the mayor's office implementing the DC health benefits exchange. And when the mayor got defeated. I had to look for something new. And what came to me was. Tech an opportunity that I didn't expect and I wasn't seeking out, but seems like a really good fit for a startup that was looking to work on personal health records and democratizing health data and bringing patient data into their own hands. Very exciting, very interesting. That kind of sparked a new interest in me, connected to the things that I had done in the past. But also learning a whole new skill set and then ended up moving to Silicon Valley to California for another startup opportunity working for a large platform that communicates with physicians and other healthcare providers. It was a role that did not last very long. And when I. Left that job. I didn't know what to do next again. So there were many moments in my life where it's I don't know what to do next. And at that time, I was able to take a step back and reflect on all of the roles that I had before and dealing with bias and discrimination, all the way back through med school. Toxicity, narcissistic bosses, microaggressions, all of these kinds of things, and also reflecting on the fact that there were a lot of people who are coming to me from the medical space who are asking me, how did you get out? How can I do what you did? I'm not happy here. And I want to do something different. And so when I started to combine those two things, I thought, let me learn how to thrive at work and help other people do the same and find their own calling. So that's my career trajectory and how I got to where I am today, which was never. Knowing what I was going to do next, but having this underlying idea of what my values are, what my interests are, the kinds of things that I want to be wanted to be doing, the kinds of people who I wanted to be working with. And that has ultimately led me to where I am today. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all those parts of your journey, just all the ups and downs and the swerves and pivots and the way that it has just. Unfolded over time. It wasn't like you left medicine. It's not like you made the decision to leave medicine and had this grand plan about what to do next. It was like, okay, here's the next step. Let me try this and see how it goes. I think. One barrier that keeps a lot of people from leaving is they don't feel like they have this like grand aha moment about what's next, like they know that this is not it for me. This is not right. But what else would I do? And because that feels a little bit unclear to them. They just stay. And so I think it's really inspiring that you show us like through your actions that yeah, you didn't fully know what was next. You had some ideas and you were able to follow the thread and just take one step after the other and let things unfold. How did it feel? Obviously in hindsight, you can look back and have this sense of Oh, and then I did this and that. And of course this is how it all worked out. But like in the moment, how did it feel to be in that? Did it feel like walking in the fog blindfolded or did it feel like you were really being led by your values or maybe a combination of the two? Like what was that like for you? It was really hard and yeah, I won't sugarcoat it. There were definitely times where I was Unemployed or working unpaid internships and just trying to get some experience under my belt or get somebody to talk to me and recognize the value that I would bring. It wasn't easy, but ultimately, yes, I was pulling at those strings. I was connecting to. What was a full bodied? Yes. When it came to the opportunities that were presented to me, and I really wouldn't have it any other way. One of the things that really guided me across all of this and that somebody shared with me right when I was starting my masters was. The Steve Jobs commencement speech, Stanford University and his famous line, you cannot connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backward. And I'm paraphrasing here, but truly now looking backward. I see how everything is connected and how everything makes sense at that time. There were definite lows and there were a lot of struggles to get to where I am today. If you would have even asked me five years ago, there's no way that it would have anticipated having a coaching business working in the diversity, equity, and inclusion space, living in California, even. So it really was just taking it step by step and day by day and figuring things out as I went along. And if I could share anything with somebody who is questioning, how can I do something different? It really is. Take that first step. Yeah. Oh, that's so powerful. I'm literally eating chills as you're talking. And when you like shared that Steve jobs quote, and what's coming to me as you were talking was like life gets to be an adventure like that. Like you, it doesn't have to be something where you know exactly what you're doing right out of the gate. And you never make a wrong turn and you never mess up and your trajectory is always up into the right. Like it doesn't have to be like that. And if you're trying to make it like that. You're going to deprive yourself of all the potential opportunities you could have taken if mistakes were allowed, or if wrong turns were allowed, or if just by allowing life to be an adventure, I think you just open yourself up to so many more opportunities and you allow yourself to get to where you're actually supposed to be, as opposed to staying stuck where it's safe and comfortable. Even though it's usually not that comfortable. Absolutely. And I think when you hear career advice, there is often this focus on what are your long term goals? What do you want to do in five years? What do you want to do in 10 years? What do you want your career to look like? And. Often, there's no way to predict what your life is going to look like in 5, 10, 20 years what your accomplishments will have been, or the connections that you have made, and I think that the best way that I have proceeded in this is to take The opportunities that are presented. Yeah, I love that. I love the full body yeses. I think that was a really powerful thing that you shared. And okay, I love what you said about let me learn how to thrive at work and then teach others how to do the same for many reasons. 1 is that, you want to live it out first and you want to be the guinea pig and learn through your own experiences and then use that to teach others, which I think is so powerful. So when you made that declaration and made that decision to do that for that to be your sort of mission. What did you learn? What did you learn about how to thrive at work? What were some of those lessons and how did you figure that out? I've taken a few different courses online and have gotten coached myself. But one of the biggest things that I did was take this course on the science of happiness at work. And they really talk through this formula of being connected. And part of that is finding your purpose. And understanding the meaning behind the work that you do. One of the people who talks about this a lot is Simon Sinek. And I really love what he says about start with why find your purpose, find what drives you to do the things that, that you're doing, because it is going to give you so much meaning. And it's going to. Give you that power to push through when there are rough days and there are going to be rough days. So part of it is purpose and then engagement getting deep into the work and feeling like the work that you are doing is making a difference. The community that is associated with the work that you do, finding that best friend at work, that person who you can rely on and vent to, and have that friendship with that can again, bring you through those hard days. So a lot of these different things, the last piece is kindness. When we have those hard days, how do you communicate in a way that doesn't come from a place of your insecurities, doesn't come from a place of feeling threatened by somebody else, but truly Creating a community of trust and being a good person and be in treating other people the way that you want to be treated. It sounds so, so simple, but when we get into the workplace, and I know that we've all experienced this as you, you get someone who is having a bad day outside of work and they bring it to work and they bring everybody down and that negativity. Is contagious. By bringing that kindness and respect and trust into the workplace. Building that sense of psychological safety. It truly is also contagious and allows people to be their best self and to work at their highest level. So those are the kinds of things that I wanted to bring into my coaching practice and give to the people who were coming to me at this place of I'm burnt out. I'm unhappy. I can't imagine going another day to work. Truly people who were contemplating ending their lives because they were so unhappy and could not see a way out. Yeah, that's so it's so painful that it gets to that level, but it definitely. It definitely does very often. And we can feel just that you're trapped, that there's not a way to get out. And it feels like ending your life is maybe the only escape that you can think of. And your brain's just problem solving and being like, how can we get out of this pain? Okay, here's the solution. But yeah it's it's just heartbreaking to me that. It comes to that for people and that things get so bad before we contemplate making a change. And so some of the things that you're alluding to, like burnout and almost like the opposite of kindness and community and all of that stuff can start with a toxic work environment. That's something that can be the catalyst for burnout and for all of those things. And so I'd love to talk a little bit more about that and just get your take on. Thank you. What is a toxic work environment? How do you, we'll just, yeah, we'll just start with that. Like, how do you define a toxic work environment? There are so many ways that an environment can feel toxic, but ultimately, if we're looking at Maslow's Hierarchy. It is a place that is not providing you with those basic needs. In a sense, even physiological needs. If you're being severely underpaid or overworked, you're not getting the sleep that you need. You're not able to pay for your, basic amenities. But that next level of psychological safety, as I mentioned before, really having that Space to trust the people around you. And then that next level on top of that, the belonging and the love that you feel, obviously a more friendship type of love in this situation, but really having those connections that allow you to thrive without those things. You're not able to get to that highest point of the hierarchy of, intellectual stimulation and self realization, self actualization, and so a toxic work environment can look anything like from bias, discrimination, micro and macro aggressions, a spectrum of poor communication, which could be the silent treatment back channeling no or belittling feedback, Public humiliation and gaslighting. It can be as we talked about burnout where you're overworked. There's unequal pay, unclear expectations, a retaliatory environment. So you don't have the safety to speak up about the things that are happening, either on the work side or on the personal side. So a lot of different things that can lead to a toxic. Workplace, and it can be one person that is creating a toxic environment for a larger group. It doesn't have to be completely systemic and all the way from the top. It can be even that middle manager, depending on what your workplace structure looks like. But that one person, if you are reporting to them, or if you are working directly with them, can Make your life miserable on a day to day basis and that toxic work environment is when you feel like I don't want to go to work. I don't feel comfortable going to work. I don't feel safe. I don't feel like I belong here. I don't know what I'm doing. All of those kinds of things are red flags for a toxic environment. Yeah. Thank you for breaking it down. I don't think I've ever heard it presented like that, which, and I love Maslow's hierarchy of needs. That's one of my favorite sort of psychological principles to help us understand ourselves as humans. And yeah, I think that was such a powerful depictor of. What a toxic work environment could be is like, depriving you of any of those needs from the basic all the way up to the sense of love and belonging and all of that. Yeah, I think that gives us helpful indicators for what it would look like if you're in a toxic work environment, which I think is so important because a lot of the people I work with, they tend to blame themselves. They tend to think Oh, there's something wrong with me because I'm feeling this way because I don't know what I'm doing. So that must be my incompetence, or I don't feel safe going to work, or I don't like I dread going into work, but it's a me thing. So how do you know if it's like. A you thing, or if it's a workplace thing, yeah. How do you make those distinctions? Yeah. I think that when you're talking about people, especially in the healthcare space, we are high achieving individuals and to get to where you are. As a physician, or, other, high ranking healthcare professional, you have done well in school, you have made the good grades, you have gotten the good recommendations, and you've likely not received a lot of negative feedback about yourself. Certainly not critical or belittling feedback in many cases. And so when you get into a space that is toxic and there are people telling you're not doing a good job, you're not meeting our expectations, you are not a good doctor or whatever it is, that can Feel really personal. And so I think that often if you are in a situation where you're feeling like this is me, take a look around to, are there other people around you who are feeling similarly? Is there a high rate of turnover in the organization? Does the feedback that I'm getting reflect how I truly feel about the work that I'm doing? Often when we're not doing our best, when we're not doing quality work, you know that you're not doing your best. It's likely due to a lack of effort. So when we're being really critical of ourselves, It often is because we're in an environment where they're, the expectations of us have not been clearly defined and we are attempting to do something that we actually don't know what that could be, what that is. Yeah, or even if the expectations are clearly defined, but they're just so unrealistic, which is the case for a lot of residency where it's you're learning, but there's not much space or grace for factoring in. That you're learning and then there's also on top of that, the sleep deprivation and the working so many hours, which makes it hard to learn because you're so exhausted and like, how can things actually sink in when you don't have that sleep and you're not well cared for. And so then it's yeah, maybe you're not actually learning at the rate that you're supposed to, but then it's because of all the other factors that are impeding. And I know like residency. Things like that's very systemic in a sense that that's not necessarily one program. There's just so many widespread issues with that. Okay if you find yourself in a toxic work environment, if you are like, okay, I check these boxes, I got these red flags. Yes, this is me. How do you recommend people start dealing with that? Do you, do they try to address it and fix it from within, or is it just get out of there as soon as you can? I'm sure it's case by case and different, but what are some of the general principles or ways you suggest that people address it? Yeah, so I think that there's three big categories and steps that you can take. So the first really is to, as we just talked about, identify. Whether you are in a toxic environment, is there 1 specific individual who is causing you a lot of harm? Is it that more structural or, patriarchal corporate structure that is in residency, forcing you to work a tremendous number of hours and not get the amount of rest. And recovery that you need to perform well and do your job and learn. So really identify what it is that's going wrong. Then you want to think about how it is that you can keep your head above water survive. We're not necessarily even talking about thriving here, but keeping your head above water. Making it so that you can get through whatever milestone you're waiting for. So maybe that could be, completing residency or maybe it is finding another role, but truly giving yourself that. That care that you need to do the things that you need to do. And then ultimately that third stage is to escape, get out, create that exit strategy, really think about if you want to get assistance or guidance from, an HR department or even legal, and then how to heal from that experience, because these experiences are very traumatic. And when you leave an organization that has brought you down, that has impacted your self esteem and your confidence, you are that same person who is then going into your next. Role. And so really there is that burden of healing that's on you in order to show up to the next thing and not make the same mistakes. And again, like I'm not saying that you're the one who's causing people to treat you poorly, but when you are in a position where people have spoken to you in a negative way. And you have had to fight for your rights going into that next role is going to have that sort of smoke detector on high alert and even a stray comment might be funny. Seen as threatening. And so if you can go through that process of healing and and recovering and building up that security and trust and vulnerability and ability to thrive in the workplace, that is going to be where you can find a way to thrive in your career after a, an experience of toxicity. Or burnout. Yeah. And your experience what has been most helpful in doing some of that healing work, because that can feel really daunting to think about, like, how do I do the healing? Because, usually it involves confronting a lot of pain and, just slowing down and doing more of the inner work. And so what, in your experience, what works well, and I know it's different for everyone, but yeah, I would love to hear your thoughts about it. Yeah. A lot of things can be helpful. For my clients, I talk through some of the insecurities that they've been feeling. I ask them to, journal out some of the things that they have experienced in terms of, developing an imposter syndrome. One of the things that comes up. Are these automatic negative thoughts? We call them ants. I'm sure you're familiar with that. And redirecting reframing, like when these things come up, how can you intellectually cognitively say, that's not true. That's not me. That's not an accurate depiction of what my work looks like, what my life looks like. This is what reality is. And so truly just trying to build back that sense of knowing and confidence within yourself, being able to trust your instincts and trust your experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And 1 of the things we talked about when it comes to dealing with the toxic work environment is ultimately. Leaving and like quitting and pursuing something different, but in your blog, you talk about this idea of quitting on your best day. And that's something that I actually did and just had this sense of that's what I want. That's how I wanted to handle residency as well. Cause I remember I had a time that I was really low during my intern year. Where I came off of a night's rotation and just got horrible feedback and was just, tail between my legs, feeling like the world is ending. And I was like, you know what? I don't want to quit. I want to get to a point where I feel like I know what I'm doing. I feel like I'm good at this. And then if I still don't like it. Then I'll leave. So I practiced that in residency. And what it helped me with was like, now, when I look back, I don't have a sense of, Oh, did I just leave because I wasn't good at it? I don't have that doubt. And so I'm really happy that I did that, but I would love to hear your perspective on quitting on your best day and like what you should do, what steps you should take before quitting your job so that you can do it from a more empowered place. Yeah. What quitting on your best day means to me is getting as much as you can from that role before you head on to the next thing. So that could mean learning just as much as you can. From the work from the people around you, it can mean attempting to pivot within your own organization. Maybe in the context of medicine, maybe that's, do I switch residencies? Do I add something on if you're already practicing, do an additional fellowship or find a new patient population that feels a little bit more connected? Maybe it is just finding those people and connections within your workplace that do feel really nourishing and do feel really good and building up that confidence within yourself that you can do the work that you are good at what you do and that you just may in this instance be in an environment that is not the best for you. So I think about quitting on your best day as the opposite of new trend of quiet quitting where you are just doing the bare minimum or rage quitting where you go out in a ball of flames and as satisfying as that can be in the moment, burning those bridges is never a great idea because there are going to be people within that organization who are part of your team and are are going to support you moving forward. You do want to be able to have someone who can provide you a reference for your next role or even to, to vent or mentor, as a peer as a senior leader. So don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you aren't happy with. Your organization or your position there, find what does work and keep that and then move forward with the rest of it in terms of the steps for getting to the point where you want to make that exit and quit. There are a few things that I recommend before you, you decide to leave. The first is to really list out what your responsibilities are the things that you do. The tasks that you handle, not only because that will give you a sense of confidence of all of the things you do. Like often we think about sort of our main roles, but there's often a lot of sort of subsidiary things that we do that. Kind of add to our full, work day. And so think about all of those things that you do. It will give you confidence in the abilities that you have, and it will also allow you to think about the transferable skills that you can take to your next role. Whether that's in your same industry within, even a new job within the same residency or medical specialty. Or really finding something completely new. In my case, taking what I saw as my skills from my time in medicine, having a bedside manner, empathic listening, analytical thinking, diagnostic ability. And bringing it into something like coaching, where I do have to listen to clients talking about what they're going through. I do have to get a sense of taking these pieces of what they're going through and finding. Something that they can then work on and then, of course, creating a treatment plan to those transferable skills are really important. You also want to think about quantifying the impact that you had. What are the accomplishments that you made and think about them in terms of numbers. I've treated X number of patients. I managed X number of residents as a chief resident or as a an attending. I innovated on this. Process or product that allowed efficiency to be increased by 30%. Whatever the case may be, those are going to be the things that stand out on your resume. And if you can start to write those down while you're working, that can help you as you begin to think about leaving. When you are in the process of actually, Moving out. You do want to make sure that any of the work products that you have done while you're there that you take them with you as much as your institution allows, of course, but whether that be any writing projects that you've done any presentations that you've done if you have a work computer and haven't transferred it into your personal computer, make sure that you have those things so that you can send See a physical representation of all that you've done and potentially share those with future employers so that they can see what your work looks like. As I mentioned before, really make sure to maintain the positive connections that you have. Don't burn all your bridges because you will need those people in the future and you can be there for them as well. This is a two way street. And then the last thing that May or may not be relevant in a specific organization or role is to allow that time to train the person who's coming after you train your successor. That is the reason why you don't necessarily want to go out in the ball of flames and quit just at the drop of a hat, which I will say I have done. In the past, and of course there are reasons for doing that. There are times where that is valid and acceptable and the only course of action, but if you can take the two weeks or one month or whatever the case may be to help your employer find your replacement to let. The people who are on your team know about the things that you are working on and how they can take that over. That's obviously really helpful. And again, we'll help you to not burn those bridges moving forward. Yeah, thank you so much for giving all of that tactical and tangible advice. That's something it's just they're things that people don't necessarily think about and just like boxes. We don't. Always check and so I think just having that as a checklist is really helpful and there's so many things we didn't even get the chance to talk about. And I feel like we could just talk about so many different things, especially us both being in the career coaching space and working with very similar. Type people there's just so much that we could talk about. So we'll definitely have to have you come back and we can have some deeper discussions. But for now, where can people find you? Where can they connect with you online? If they want to go deeper with all of the work that you're offering. Sure. So you can find me on my website at www. connectivecoalition. com. And hopefully you can just write that in the notes under the podcast. But if you look on the website, you'll see that blog post that you mentioned. And at the top right corner, you'll see a button that says free toolkit. If you click that toolkit, it will give you a toxic workplace survival toolkit that I mentioned that has a lot of the content that I mentioned about identifying a toxic workplace and surviving. And then Getting out. You can find me on Instagram at connective coalition, and you can email me at Sonia at connective coalition. com. Perfect. Yeah. And we'll include all of those in the show notes so that people can find those for really easy access, but thank you for sharing your resources with us, your work and your story. I really appreciate you coming on here. And I think it's just been such an informative, helpful episode. Thank you so much for having me. And yeah, I'd love to come again. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Life After Medicine podcast. Make sure to leave a review and subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. If you want to continue the conversation, share your takeaways, and connect with other like minded healthcare workers, then come join us in the Life After Medicine Facebook group. The link to join the group is in the show notes. I can't wait to connect with you further.