Enneagram for Moms w/ Beth McCord

Hey Enneagram Friend! I’m Abbi - an IEA Accredited Enneagram Teacher & Coach. I teach Enneagram workshops with corporate and non-profit teams, and I also facilitate executive coaching as part of that professional development experience. I’d love to bring the Enneagram to your workplace!

Today on the podcast, I’m joined on the podcast by fellow Enneagram Practitioner, Beth McCord. Beth is the founder of Your Enneagram Coach and is an Enneagram speaker, coach, author & teacher. She is passionate about coming alongside individuals and helping them re-write their story, allowing them to see that lasting change, meaningful relationships, and a life of seep purpose is possible. In our conversation today, we specifically explore her new book The Enneagram for Moms. I hope you’ll listen in with curiosity & see what resonates in your experience.

Connect with Beth at Your Enneagram Coach to learn even more about her work or checkout her new book The Enneagram for Moms set to release July 9th.

Are you looking for ways to support your staff & provide meaningful opportunities for engagement this season? Learn more about team Enneagram Workshops at www.abbirodriguez.com and schedule a Free Consultation Call to explore how the Enneagram would benefit your organization! Interested in executive Enneagram coaching for yourself or your team? Schedule a FREE Discovery Call or learn more about coaching at www.abbirodriguez.com/coaching

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Transcript

Abbi Rodriguez: 0:00

Hey Ennegram friends, I'm Abby, an IEA accredited Ennegram teacher and coach. I teach Ennegram workshops with corporate and nonprofit teams, and I also facilitate executive coaching as part of that professional development experience. I'd love to bring the Enneagram to your workplace. Today on the podcast, I'm joined by fellow Ennegram practitioner, Beth McCortin. She's the founder of Your Ennegram Coach and is an Ennegram speaker, coach, author, and teacher, and has been for over the past 20 years. She's passionate about coming alongside individuals and helping them rewrite their story, allowing them to see lasting change, meaningful relationships, and a life that's possible of deep purpose. Today on the podcast, we specifically talk about her new book, The Enneagram from Moms, that will be released in July. And so I'm excited to share this conversation with you. As always, I hope you listen in with curiosity and see what resonates in your experience. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's really great to have you as a guest and to be able to talk more about your book. So thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks, Abby. It's so great to be here. So I know that we could talk about lots of different topics and lots of different facets of the Enneagram. Um, but I would specifically love to talk about your new book that is coming out in July, um, The Enneagram for Moms. So if you um just kind of starting our conversation, I'd love to know why you wrote this book.

Beth McCord: 1:30

Yeah, no, that's a great question. Great place to start. So I started using Enneagram when I was 26 years old. So this is back in 2001, a long time ago. Um, and it was during that season when my kids were one and three years old, that I just did not understand myself. I didn't understand why things would trip me up, you know, being a mom and being a parent. Um, and so I had a friend that uh let me know about the Enneagram. And so I started reading about it and I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And how do they know this about me? Um, but one particular day that that really comes to mind is I would take my kids to the playground. My husband was in seminary, and so a bunch of us lived on campus. And so we would take them to the playground, and I would just look at all these moms and be like, oh my gosh, she is such a strong mom. Like she really knows what to do and she's just very assertive, but you know, but kind. And then I look at another mom and go, oh, she's so creative and like she's able to be there with her kids emotionally. And then, you know, I would say that about all the moms in my head. And every time I would do that, I would kind of put myself down a little bit more and a little bit more. And then I'd come home and I would kind of tell Jeff, you know, how I was feeling. And he helped me to understand that I was basically putting all the best qualities of these moms into one super woman and thinking that she exists, like I could become that person. Yeah. And he's like, Bet that doesn't exist. And in fact, those women, you know, they're doing like they're putting on their best in front of others. You don't know what they're struggling with behind closed doors. And I was like, Oh, you're right. And the fact that I am literally creating an image or a person that I think I should become, and it doesn't exist. And so by reading the Enneagram, it helped me to go, oh, I'm a type nine. I was created to be a type nine mom for my kiddos. I wasn't created to be a type four mom or a five or a six, as wonderful as that would have been. I was created to be a type nine mom. So what does that mean? It's not, it doesn't mean I need to be this superwoman with all the best characteristics in the world. I have my own characteristics, strengths, and liabilities that I need to focus on to become my best self. And so I wanted to write a book for moms to recognize that they are beautiful in their own type. And the whole goal is to really become the best version of yourself for your kiddos, no matter what types they are and whether you get to find out their types for quite a while or not. So when we can do our own personal work, we will really be fabulous moms no matter what type we are.

Abbi Rodriguez: 4:14

Yeah. And and I love that quality of even um, you know, you talk about it so much in the book, which I've I've loved getting to look through and read through the book ahead of time, but really just this invitation to focus on self first rather than trying to figure out your kiddos. You know, as I interact with clients and in workshops and individual coaching, out of this genuine desire to show up well as a parent and do that relationship well, uh, the questions always come up of, you know, how do I figure out my kids' type and how old do they need to be? Right. And those are all really good questions. Um, and I I always love the curiosity of it. But, you know, and you talk about this in your book, this the sense of sometimes we're trying to figure out our kids so then we can fix them, or sometimes I think even um pander to their type a little bit. And really this genuine invitation from your book to focus on yourself first and and cultivating that robust self-awareness of your internal world. So I'd love to hear you talk just a little bit more about um kind of that vital piece of self-awareness and how that really does impact your parenting. If you start first with yourself, even if you have no idea what your kiddos type is and maybe not for a long time.

Beth McCord: 5:29

Yeah. And I know that we talked about that a lot of your audience is in the workspace. And it really, the Innegram is so powerful just in any relationship dynamic. And even if I was in the workspace, I would say the same thing. It starts with you. Um, I know just like anyone else, it feels like it's everyone else that's creating my internal problems, but we can actually learn to grow in self-regulation, uh, being more sober-minded, meaning we're not just all over the place. Um, and so with being a parent, it's the same way, because you could have nine kids and they're all the different nine types. And yes, some might activate you more than others, but why? The whole point is why. And the Enneagram gets to that why. And when you can understand why you're getting activated, then you have the opportunity to become self-regulated, to get to a place where you can enter into that relationship. Again, maybe it's with your boss or your employee or a coworker, you can enter into that relationship in a whole different way because you can actually engage in that relationship, then react to the situation. And I mean, just kind of give you an example, I'm a type nine, the peaceful accommodator. And if I see, let's say, my kids start whining or they're upset about something and they're not happy. Well, I start to feel like I'm being a really bad mom. Well, why? Because I can see other moms that are like, they don't feel this way, you know. You know, yeah, they don't probably want their kids to whine, but there's different reasons for why. But for me as a type nine, I don't like conflict and I feel that I must make everybody happy.

Abbi Rodriguez: 7:08

Yeah.

Beth McCord: 7:08

Well, sad news, no one can make anyone fully happy. And so I'm like, okay, so does that mean I'm gonna be unhappy my whole life? No, I that I don't have to live that life. And so what I have to recognize is okay, why do I get activated that way? And my core motivations really point to the fact that yes, I don't like conflict. I don't like people being upset. I want harmony, I want peace. And that's okay. It's not wrong getting activated, it's what I do with it. Now, as a type nine, my typical go-to is to forget myself and go along to get along, thinking I can make people happy and then everything is going to be okay. Well, it's not true. So, what do I need to recognize about that in the moment is that okay, uh, it's totally understandable that I want peace and harmony. I want people happy, but what is needed in this moment as a mom to these kiddos, what do they need and what do I need? And that's an important, especially for nine, what do I need is an important part to integrate. So once I understand, okay, I I as a mom want them to make the bed or put the dishes away, whatever it is, and they're not gonna be happy about it. I have in my mind settled in on, okay, this is what I'm wanting. And I know the outcome might be that they whine and complain. What am I gonna do about that when that happens? Because it's going to activate me. That's not a bad or wrong thing. But when I get activated, how am I going to approach that situation? Will I be able to be non-anxious and a connected presence with them? Or am I going to be reactive and just make everything, you know, either I'll be like upset that they're making my life hard because now I feel like I'm not making them happy, or am I going to throw it all back onto them and make them feel like they're just doing terrible things because they don't want to do the dishes or make their bed? So this gives us the opportunity to understand our internal world. And to, of course, it takes a long time to really understand our internal world and to have this emotional self-regulation, but it is so worth it. And I kind of explained that throughout the whole book. And like I said, this isn't just about parenting, this is every single relationship that we have. And when we're able to be more self-regulated, we are able to bring the best of who we are. And not only does that bless everyone else around us, we get to enjoy life on a whole new level. And that doesn't mean we're happy or life is perfect. It's that we can enjoy life with whatever it's giving us in that moment.

Abbi Rodriguez: 9:47

Yeah, definitely. And, you know, when we talk about this, this emotional regulation, right? Or um, you know, so I I'm almost as I am also a somatic practitioner. And so that awareness of, you know, you talk about aware in the sense of having some sense of your emotions in real time, your thoughts in real time, your bodily sensations in real time. And cultivating that awareness, it does take time. You know, I think sometimes we're so used to the quick fix of things. And, you know, there is, I heard someone say once the Enneagram is it's easy to be a student of and it's very difficult to be a master of, right? Because it's really easy to start the process, but it takes a long time to really embody the wisdom of it and and all the other pieces that go with it. Um, and so letting it be a process with an incredible amount of graciousness to ourselves in those moments when, you know, we blow up at our kids and that wasn't um how we wanted to show up, or it wasn't honoring of who we actually are in the world. Uh, we just got triggered or we got really activated and we didn't realize it until hindsight. So now we got to go back and repair. Um, but I I would love, I love how you uh talked through kind of this framework of aware and just these different pieces, because this is often the question um that I get and kind of process through it really the sense of like, I know my type or I know what I'm supposed to do, but then I feel like all I'm doing is apologizing for my type, right? It's it's hard to notice it in real time and pause to make a choice differently of how we want to show up. So even if you would just kind of walk through this aware framework and and how we might kind of embody this awareness of ourselves. Absolutely. Excuse me.

Beth McCord: 11:28

Yeah. So what the AWARE um acronym is, is it goes through obviously the letters of aware, which is A is awaken, W is welcome, the next A is ask, then R is receive, and the last letter is E or engage. And so we want people to awaken, just like you had said, awaken to our thoughts, feelings, and body sensations and inclinations. So, like, what is actually happening in the moment? So let's say you get activated and triggered and you're brand new to the Enneagram. Well, you might not even know quite yet anything. You know, like when I was a, you know, newly at this Enneagram stuff, I wouldn't have understood why am I so upset that they're whining? You know, because all night, like I said, online types can do the same thing, but it's the why that's different. So why am I feeling like this? Or let's say my boss is upset with me. Why do I feel like I want to crumble inside? Not everybody else feels it to that point or that extreme. Well, then once I start to uh get into the Enneagram, I'm like, oh, I don't like conflict, I don't like tension, I don't like being overlooked by other people. And so that is activating something in me. And so it's that awareness that's really helpful. And different types are gonna use like body sensations to give them clues. Me wanting to like uh withdraw or hightail it out of there, you know, or like get under the covers, you know, that is a good signal for a nine that yeah, something's activating you. Whereas maybe a type eight is like, you know what, I'm just gonna be a snow plow, I'm gonna plow right over you, you know, because and it's like, why do I feel like doing that? You know, so we all have different um activations inside us. And so that's where the integram can really be helpful. It's a tool of self-discovery. So you can use this tool to make you aware of why you're thinking, feeling, and having these body sensations. Now, the W is almost the most important part because if you don't do the W, this all is going to derail. So the W is welcome. We want to welcome these thoughts, feelings, and sensations, this awareness of what's going on without shame, self-condemnation, and criticalness towards ourselves. Now that's hard because that's kind of like how our society teaches us to be. It's our natural just bent usually is to put ourselves down or maybe put someone else down. But how can we just look at this situation and this awareness with a non-judgmental stance and receive it? So that's important because otherwise you're going to literally just keep going in the same cycle over and over. Then we want to ask and we want to ask for what's true that could be asking ourselves, is this really true? Is this what's going on? Maybe we need to ask another person that we're close to. This is what I was experiencing. Do you think this is true? Now it's not to try to get your own perspective back from someone, but what is actually happening in that moment? Maybe you need to read a book that has truth on whatever topic it is. And so we want to gather truth and then we need to receive that truth. Cause, like you said, you can know the truth, but are you actually going to receive the truth and actually do something with the truth? And the E is then to engage with that truth in a new way in your relationships. And so that's the AWARE acronym. Now, like you said, it's super simple to read and go, yeah, that totally makes sense, but it's hard to do. And so if we just take it step by step during when we get activated, maybe we need to say, hey, I need a timeout, I need to go think and process what's going on. It might take uh, you know, for a while some some time to go through this, but then as you do the aware process, whether you do the actual letters or you do something that another teacher does, just becoming aware, you'll get used to it and you can actually start doing it in the moment. And you're like, oh, this is what's going on. And that can be really beneficial for you in the moment of these relationships. Yeah, definitely.

Abbi Rodriguez: 15:20

And I think even, you know, I always say it's helpful to notice it after the fact. And then the more that you notice it, right, we can kind of shorten that window of time of like we noticed it the next day, or now we notice it an hour or 30 seconds after, and now we're noticing it in real time. And and really giving us some space, you know, if we can reflect on it afterwards and kind of go through what can feel really challenging to go back and apologize, whether that is to that moment of you know, rupture with our kiddos or in the way that we treated someone. Um, but also it gives us a lot of information about what it looks like for us to be dysregulated or what it looks like when we're triggered, or when we, you know, I would say push out of our window of tolerance. Because oftentimes it's usually a handful of the same things. You know, for me, when I'm getting pushed out of my window of tolerance, I get really quick. You know, it's like I'm I lead with type eight. So I'm moving through things very quick and everything is urgent and everything is an emergency and it needs to be fixed and controlled and eliminated right now. And so in those moments, and sometimes even with reflections of others of like this is an emergency, or you know, you're going really quick, but really now even being able to reflect on that myself of um, you're moving quickly. Why? Nothing about this needs immediacy or needs urgency. Um, we are just going to the pool, right? We're not actually like doing anything professional. Um, and so that's really helpful of, you know, now that I know it's really just a few key indications. Um, you know, that one other one for me, because I'm a body type, I have a lot of awareness of my felt sensation. Um, but I will kind of like charge up, right? It's like this like powering up. Um, or I heard an eight say once like the wolverine claws are starting to like slowly seep out, but like I can feel like I'm like powering up to take something on or to fix something or to do something. Um, and it's usually that I've gotten pushed out of my window of tolerance and I'm really activated.

Beth McCord: 17:17

Well, and I I like to use the analogy, this might help, you know, well, anyone, is like it's like you're driving down a highway. Okay. And there, there's often times where like we get dysregulated, and that's when we're not really aware and paying attention to what's going on. So we're varying off the side of the road. And if we're not paying attention, we're just gonna fall into the same common pitfall time and time again. And oftentimes when people come to the Enneagram, they kind of are throwing up their hands or wanting to pull their hair out. Like, why am I doing this again? And that's where the shame and condemnation and guilt comes in. Like, haven't I learned my lesson? Well, I use this analogy because the Enneagram is like a rumble strip on the highway, you know, that thing that alerts you when you're going off course and you're gonna fall into that common pitfall. And so what usually happens in our life is that we're not aware, we're not paying attention. And so when we hit that rumble strip, we just go right past it and into that ditch. And then there's times where we're like, we finally start using the Enneagram and we're like, wait a second, there was a rumble strip somewhere I could have listened to or paid attention to, but I didn't. I wonder where that was. And so you can use that analogy to go, oh, back right there. That's when I started to get activated. And if I would have been able to be a little bit more aware, I might have been able to correct course. So the next time I'm in a similar situation, I now know that that is when I start to get activated. That's when I start to veer off course. And I need to be awake, I need to be alert to that. And so then over time, like you said, you might keep going over that rumble strip time and time again. But the more you work with this, the more you'll see where that was and to be alert. And then finally there'll be a day where you're like, uh-oh, I feel it. Like for you, like all of a sudden you feel your body charging up. You haven't done anything with it yet, but you're feeling that charge. And you're like, okay, wait, something's happening. And it could be positive, it could be negative, but something's happening. I know this feeling. What does this mean? For me, it is a sense of panicking and like, okay, well, how do I make people happy? Or um it could be um, yeah, just accommodating to people. Well, I now know, or if I think, you know, my presence doesn't matter, my uh voice doesn't matter. That is a huge rumble strip for me. And so I can go, okay, wait, that is not true. My voice does matter to my employees, to my kids. And so that's a false uh indicator. And so what do I need to take hold of now? So that's that rumble strip where I can go, okay, so it might take me some time. It doesn't like instantly go, oh, well, now I figured it out and let's just get back on the highway. It takes some time. Sometimes you're even riding that rumble strip for quite a while. And sometimes, yes, unfortunately, sometimes we do fall into the common pitfall, but at least we're getting recognition, we're making progress. And then there will be times where we're like, I see it, I own it, and I'm able to correct course gently, not just trying to like over-correct, but I'm gonna gently correct course. And then over time, you'll see how that becomes a little bit easier and a little bit easier. And then we recognize that when we do veer off course once again, we don't need to use that to shame ourselves. It's like, yes, I did that again, and now it's time to repair, repair with myself and repair with others. And that is almost just as important as anything we do in our relationship is that repair. But we can't repair really well if we don't know what we did and why we did it. And so when we do know, we can then ask for forgiveness appropriately and own it and then ask if they would forgive and repair with us. And they may or may not, but that at least we've done the work on our side. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Abbi Rodriguez: 21:02

And I think too, you know, I remember when I first was learning the Enneagram. And of course, um, so I one of my first exposures to the Enneagram was through um the Enneagram Institute. So Risso and Russ Hudson and some of their certified teachers. And um, I remember the first time that the teacher talked about uh self-compassion and a non-judgmental awareness, and my achtness was like gross. Like, I'll take the information and I will not do that part. And again, you know, I love that you highlight it because it is it is so essential because otherwise, our personality is just trying to fix our personality, right? So for me, it's like this just doubling down and just being tough and just keep going and just bulldozing ahead without any awareness of how I felt in that moment or, you know, as I'm interacting and bumping in to others, awareness of what they felt. Um, and so that self-compassion, it it helps to kind of loosen the hold of our type. So it's not so automatic and you have a little bit of wiggle room in it. Um, but it's so, it's so essential. It's not optional. Um, and I go ahead.

Beth McCord: 22:05

Sorry.

Abbi Rodriguez: 22:05

Go ahead. Well, yeah, I and I think just that, right? Like shame doesn't get us anywhere. Um it only calcifies our type.

Beth McCord: 22:12

Yeah. And I love working with type eights um because whether it's in the workplace or as a parent, whatever it is, this is a great analogy because the world, I feel, unfortunate, unfortunately does not understand the design of an eight. And so they want to edit the eight, they want to change the eight, they want the eight to become something all different. And I talk about the eights being a big diesel snow plow. So up in the Midwest, the north, if you don't have these big diesel snow plows to plow the snow that comes on the highways, no one's getting anywhere. You can't use just a little Ford pickup truck with a shovel on it. That's for the South. You know, we need these real, really big diesel snow plows because they plow a path for others. That is the gold, the heart of an eight. They really want to plow a path for others that others can't do very well. Now, that's wonderful when the eight is healthy and the eight is like, hey, I see you guys, go ahead and get behind me and I've got this for you. And then the aide's gonna plow that path, and everyone's like, oh, thank goodness. Like, this is exactly what I needed. So the strength is there, the passion is there, the ability to get it done is there. But when the aide starts to be a little less aware, then like you said, we're gonna start nicking cars on the side of the road. And and usually it's just total unawareness. It's like, hey, I'm I'm I've got this uh job to do, I need to plow this path. Why are you? You know, and the people are like, What do you why are you doing that? It's like, well, why are you there? I'm plowing the path, you know? And so that's where the unawareness comes in. But and then of course, you know, the ate what like all of us when we're really unhealthy, they might just go, I don't really care. I'm plowing a path. Like, if you're in the way, that's your problem. Now, when an aide is like, okay, I don't need to change who I am, I don't need to become a Ford pickup truck. I need to be me and I need to set myself up for where I am best used. So in the workplace, yes, we need eights to plow paths for others, but we need it to be done in that healthy realm. And so we don't want to bring in the shame. We don't want others to bring in shame, but we want to use the information rightly so that they can be the best of who they are. Same as a mom. I mean, as a mom, they are so fantastic plowing paths for their kids, but they can overplow when the kids might need to do their own plowing and learn how to do that. Um, and so that I feel like is such a great representation of seeing your type for the beauty that it is versus bringing in that shame. It's just that we need to tweak the personality to be utilized in the correct way.

Abbi Rodriguez: 24:49

Yeah.

Beth McCord: 24:49

Does that resonate with you though, as an eight?

Abbi Rodriguez: 24:51

Yeah. So, you know, it's always so interesting. I'm a self-preservation eight. So I have a much more subdued presence, more of a five quality. Um, and I also have a strong nine wing. So I do, it's funny because um there's a lot of uh it's a it's always a yes, and then not as big, right? Like there's not as much over energy. Um, and and it's usually more contained to my self-pres qualities. Um, you know, for example, yesterday my kiddo wanted to have a sleepover with his buddy. And my first thought was no, which is always no. Um, and then I had to like dial myself back. Um, but because I was like, you have BBS the next day, you need to sleep. I need you to be functioning and kind to your sister, which you are have, you know, more trouble when you don't have sleep. But all everything, all of my no's in my like trying to control the situation um had a lot to do with self-pres qualities of like, I need you to sleep, eat, and like be well. Um and so some of those things, right, of like I'm creating a path of what it looks like for him to move through this next day with a lot of intensity and a and a strong no. And it has much more to do with, you know, not with the bully on the playground, with like, I want to make sure that you eat and sleep so that you function well, so that I can function well.

Beth McCord: 26:09

Exactly. And I just think, you know, and that's what's so beautiful about the Enneagram. Cause I know a lot of people are like, you mean there's only nine types? Like, you know, I'm like, well, when you really unpack it, it like each type, if you make them a color, and you go to Sherman Williams, there's a plethora of purples and blues. And like you're not just your type. There's so many facets about you. So, like for you being a self-prez versus a social versus a one-to-one or sexual, like there's like even in that, there's so much variety, let alone talking about our wings and all the other things that are going on. And I think that that's what makes the Enneagram so dynamic and beautiful, because it really is about you. How were you created? How do you see the world? How do you function in the world? And then how can you become the best version of yourself? And that's where I get back to the why I wrote this book. Because if I had this book earlier on, like from this perspective, I can't say I would have been like, you know, free and clear. It's a lot of hard work no matter what. But I think I would have been able to not see all the other personalities and think there's something wrong with me or I'm not as good. And just really like double down on who am I? Why was I created this way? And how can I get the best of who I am to my kiddos?

Abbi Rodriguez: 27:25

Yeah.

Beth McCord: 27:26

Yeah, definitely.

Abbi Rodriguez: 27:28

Um, one of the things I very much resonated with as I was reading through your book with regards to type eight, um, you know, you have a section in there where you kind of talk about our natural inclination is to try to parent our kids to be the best parts of our type, right? The strengths of our type. Um, and I think that in addition to having some awareness of why we are so triggered based on our, you know, our underlying motivations and our fears, I think it's also so helpful to think through, you know, what do we value, right? We always tend to moralize our type, the best parts of our type, as if this is what is needed in the world. And um, as I read through that, that quality of type eight, wanting to have this level of resilience in their kid, you know, especially um when I think about my uh early parenting years when my kiddos were young, you know, I've I've kind of elementary age kiddos now, but in those early years, there was so much of an underlying mentality of like, I just need you to be tougher, right? Like I need you to get over it or to stand up for yourself or for this to not be such a big deal. And I think as I, you know, was such a gift to have the Enneagram in those early parenting years, because even though I didn't know how to fix that quality of myself, I could see it glaringly true. And, you know, one of the things that kept coming up in conversation with my husband was um, I feel like I just want them to be tougher so that they can make their way in the world without me being there. Um, and then realizing like that's not the goal of parenting, not just to make your kids tougher, right? If that's my punchline of like, and I need you to be tougher, then I need to retrace my steps. And that was really what propelled me into not just Enneagram work, but also the work of um Dr. Daniel Siegel, which you quote multiple, you know, of his parenting books and and some of those pieces. Um, but really this level of empathy that I had to build that muscle because it wasn't as intuitive for me as an ate, um, of genuine sitting with and this non-anxious presence to actually understand and to build passion rather than me just being the dictator that's creating commands and you have to follow them. Um, but for there to actually be character building in that. And so that was a whole, you know, the Enneagram was like my launch pad into this whole world of understanding. Um, I don't know, I don't know if it feels like an okay quat like uh question and and request to kind of walk through how each of the nine types might try to parent their kid to be their type. Um, you know, even in broad brush. Strokes. But I'd love to kind of go through the nine.

Beth McCord: 30:03

Yeah. And feel free to like chime in if you have any thoughts. But like the type one is they're trying to make little principled reformers. Like let's do things right. Uh the type two is wanting to make little nurturing supporters. Like, so let's be thoughtful of other people's needs, their feelings, and let's get those needs met. The type three are trying to make little admirable achievers. So let's achieve, let's excel, let's have an image that people are going to admire. Then we have the type four moms who are trying to make little introspective individualists where they know themselves, their authentic selves. They're not just being like everyone else, that they stand out. The type five, they're wanting to have little um analytical investigators. So they want their kids to want knowledge, to crave knowledge and to sit with that knowledge and be able to pull the knowledge out whenever needed so that they're ready for whatever's gonna come their way. Now, the type sixes, they are trying to create little faithful guardians, ones that are dutiful, they're responsible, they um are also planning and predicting what could happen and make sure that bad things don't happen. So, like, because like kind of like you, they're like, well, are they gonna be able to predict things, you know, and keep themselves safe? So it's a lot about safety and different could be relational safety, could be physical safety, could be lots of different safety. Um, now the sevens, my dad's a seven, they're trying to create little um enthusiastic optimists. I mean, let's keep everything lighthearted, let's be happy, like everything is great. Oh, let's not deal with those hard things. Let's just spin it into something fun. And that's what they're really wanting with their kiddos. Um, and like the eights, they're trying to make passionate protectors, protectors of themselves and protectors of others. And so that totally makes sense when you were saying that is if you are a passionate protector of yourself, I feel as a mom, I've done my job and I feel like I can exhale and let you go into the world. But if you're not that way, I'm gonna be worried or I'm gonna have to step in, I'm gonna have to control. And so that's what type eights are usually doing, just as default. And then for me as a type nine, I'm trying to make little peaceful accommodators. Like, let's just get along, just go along with people, you know, you know, just be flexible. You know, your desires aren't the biggest thing in the world. Like, let's just make peace and harmony wherever we go, be empathetic, kind, and warm. And like all of those things that we that I just talked about, there are really good aspects to that. And when we're at our healthiest, we are going to impart those wonderful aspects. The biggest thing I want parents to recognize is that you don't try to create many versions of yourself. So there's a difference in imparting good things to them and allowing them to be them and incorporating your gifts into their personality versus trying to create little versions. And I, we all do it because we see the world through our own lens, you know, our own glasses, you know. So I see the world as a type nine. Like, why wouldn't I want to have little peaceful accommodators? Isn't that the way the world's supposed to be that we're all getting along? Well, yes, there's a really wonderful aspect about peace and harmony, but that's not the whole spectrum. And that's not the whole part of life. And so I want to be curious as to who my kids were created to be. Now, you know, I know parents, like you said earlier, that we just want to know their type and we just want to parent their type. We want to either fix them or help them to be their best type. And you just can't for a while. So a lot of it comes around curiosity, being curious about them, being non-anxious and present, being uh aware and attuned to who they are. But so, like if I had, and this is so important because if I had a type eight child who was protecting themselves and standing up, you know, to the injustice of let's say their sibling, you know, teasing and bullying them, you know, part of me would be proud of that. But then I a lot large part of me would be wanting to tamp it down, like, well, let's just get along. And so that can come across like I'm not listening well. Now, do I want them to get along? Yes. Are there good aspects that I can impart? Yes. But am I helping my type eight child to grow up to see their personality as a blessing? Now, if I don't know their type as that, I can still be curious, like, okay, they're very different than me. They're strong, they're assertive, they're gonna say what they need to say. So they're probably, you know, in some sort of aggressive stance, or, you know, maybe, maybe not, but we're probably different. And so, how can I nurture that? How can I steer that quality into the best place for them while also imparting myself? So, and it's so hard because we do it with everyone, whether it's our kids, our spouse, our co-workers, our bosses, we want them to be us or at least see the world the way we do and do it the way we do it. And that is kind of the mystery and the beauty of life is that it's never that way. And how are we gonna participate in those relationships is the key.

Abbi Rodriguez: 35:12

Yeah, definitely. And and I love that invitation to curiosity. You know, I think sometimes um it, you know, when people ask of like, well, how do I figure it out? Or what do you think they are? And and that sense of like, just tell me the answer. Um, but the answer really is curiosity, especially until they get into some of those later years. Um, but I think too, like there it is, there is really a genuine invitation with that curiosity to even in your mind ask some of those those questions of like, I wonder if this is why they did that, right? Rather than just, you know, why are they having this quote unquote bad behavior? But instead of like, I wonder if that was like really anxiety-producing for them, or I wonder why they got so angry so quickly, or I wonder why that was embarrassing for them. I wouldn't have been embarrassed, but I wonder why it was for them. Um, you know, some of those qualities that I think uh if we can really take on the lens of asking that question of, you know, that peculiarity rather than assuming it would be the way that it was for us, um, of like, why? Why did that bother them so much? Or why did we have such a big reaction to that? Um, and as they get older, you know, you can start to ask some of those questions, even in simple ways. Um, you know, one of the gifts that I feel like um that I was offered along the way of just mirroring back that emotion by asking the question of, you seem really angry, what's going on, buddy? You know, or you seem really embarrassed. I, you know, and then they can correct you like, no, I wasn't embarrassed, I was afraid, right? And they can correct what emotion that they're experiencing, but starting in that conversation and getting some language around what's going on in their interior world. Um, and I think the other part of that, too, that I find myself having to remind myself of just because it's, you know, oftentimes when we're parenting, we kind of react to our parenting experience, right? We try to give them the things that we wish that they would have had. And there's great versions of that. But then also realizing um what is valuable to us, it may not really rank very valuable to them. And so, although this feels so meaningful to be so intentional and so authentic, or to give them so many opportunities to shine, or to create so much space for them to connect with others, right? It may not rank very valuable to them. And we might be going, you know, extending all this energy to create this experience that they they actually could have, you know, take it or leave it.

unknown: 37:36

Yeah.

Beth McCord: 37:36

I mean, like I'll just use me as an example. I had great parents. Um, my mom was a six, very phobic six, and my dad was a very fun seven. Um, and so my mom and dad, they both love to be busy. Well, my mom liked to be busy with responsibilities, and my dad loved to be busy with his work. He was an allergist and he was passionate about it. And then he had lots of other like things that he was busy with. And so they love talking about being busy, busy, busy. We're so busy, you know. And it was like this like uh badge of honor. Well, I'm a type nine. Like I'm like, I don't care that you're busy. In fact, I would like for you not to be busy. I just want you to be with me, to be present with me. And so, you know, as a little kid, I kind of just felt at times like, well, why are you so busy? And why do you think that's so important? Like, why can't you just and so it felt like this real big disconnect, but they probably thought they were imparting like, we're, you know, we're working hard and we're, you know, we're providing for the family and all those things. And though those are great, but like you were saying, they think they're imparting something that I would appreciate. And I didn't now, maybe another type of kid would. Um, I mean, I know all kids really want that attunement and stuff, but I just really wanted to chill on the couch and maybe watch TV or have a fire or, you know, just be with them and not always go, go, go. But there's a lot of the personalities that do love to go, go, go, you know, and they would not understand that world of the nine or know what to do with that world. And so I think that's really like what you're saying is so important is to have that curiosity and try different things because I mean, you you're not gonna know the kids' type until they name their type, until they know, and it's not until they're, you know, like a little bit older, like teenage years, if you're lucky, if they're kind of an old soul or later. And so the curiosity comes in and then you just try some different things. Um, you know, let me see if this lands on them well. Does this feel, you know? And I think for me as a kid, if my parents were just going to be curious and ask good questions, or why, why are you frustrated that we're so busy on the weekend? Well, because I just want to be with you. And to hear the heart behind it, I think that's what's so important. Not to hear the heart in the sense that I'm accusatory of the parent, like they're always doing something wrong. But the parent, that's where the self-regulation comes in and being a non-anxious presence, like, okay, I need to set aside what might activate me and I need to listen to my kid. So if you know what activates you, then you can listen a little bit further with your child when you're being curious. And instead of it being an accusation, it's an invitation.

Abbi Rodriguez: 40:22

Yeah, definitely. And I think too, you know, there are some broad brushstrokes that you can pick up on with your kids. Like even you said, you know, maybe they're in a certificance, right? And I think subtypes feel really obvious to me with kids, right? Because, and a lot of times because they're nurtured. So then sometimes it's just a combination of you and your partner. Um, but I think some of those things too, you know, even for my husband and I, so my husband leaves with type seven. And one of the things we realized very quickly before our kids could even really talk was that we were gonna have to be really mindful about our speed. Otherwise, our kids' childhood is gonna feel like whiplash because we can have a thought and go do it or go do something and then think about it later. And there's just a lot of speed and being up for it. And so, you know, even now as our kids have gotten older, one of our kids is very much up for it. And then the other one has a pretty strong inner world and is more of a homebody. And so being mindful of what that experience is like for him, um, because that, you know, having two parents that are very, very leaning in that assertive stance, um, that can feel like a lot of energy and a lot of four momentum that we don't want him to feel like he's always getting hold along or he's trying to catch up.

Beth McCord: 41:35

Yeah. And I love that because I had a um a coaching client that was a type eight and her husband was a three. So very similar. Like, go, go, go. Um, and then we're gonna go to Europe. And they had just discovered that their uh teenage son was a five, and everything started to make sense. And so she was like, Beth, you know, I have everything planned out. Like, you know, me and my husband as a three and an eight, like we've got the days planned out and we're gonna like get it so much done. And she was like, Oh, wait, what about him? And I said, Okay, here, let's talk it through. And so we talked it through. And I said, This is what he's gonna need. You're gonna need to check in with him. Where is his interactive battery life? Is he feeling like he's at five percent and you're about ready to go off and do the next thing? It's gonna be good to check in with his battery life to see when does he need to recharge and how would he like to recharge and not to take it as a personal thing that he doesn't want to be with the family or do the fun things, but he has his own sets of needs anyway. So, of course, we worked through all that and talked through it. And then I went to Europe and I ran into them uh one day. And she was like, It was the best vacation we have ever been on. And I was just like, Yay! You know, so they all got to enjoy it because they were all able to see themselves really for who they are and to celebrate one another. And that's that's why the Innergram is so powerful. And if we use it correctly, we don't use it as a sword or as a shield, we want to use it correctly. And when we do, we enjoy ourselves and who we are, but we also get to enjoy those around us.

Abbi Rodriguez: 43:06

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Um, I know that we could talk forever and ever. Um, but as we kind of wrap up our time together, um, would you share with listeners about how they can be engaged in your work and how you know they can find your book and kind of what you're up to these days, too?

Beth McCord: 43:21

Absolutely. Yeah. So everything is at your IntegramCoach.com. So that's my handle on Instagram and Facebook as well. We have a podcast, Your Integram Coach, the podcast. Um, the book, Anygram for Moms, is coming out July 9th. And you can also go to anygram for moms.com. And we've got pre-order bonuses there. You've got lots of other freebies that you can kind of grab and utilize as a parent. And so we just really want, we want families to thrive. And I believe part of that is knowing ourselves well enough so that we can really be there for our kids and that non-anxious connected presence. So that's where they can find me.

Abbi Rodriguez: 43:58

Okay, I love that. And I will link all those pieces in the show notes too, so that it's easy to find you. Um, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's it's always such a gift to get to connect with other Enneagram practitioners and kind of their slice of the Enneagram and their world that they're occupying. Um, but I'm I'm so excited to be able to offer, you know, this resource to to parents. And again, you know, every facet of the Enneagram is helpful with every facet of relationship, relationship to self and relationship to others. Um, and so I know that this will really be a resource for them. So thanks for being on the show. Thanks, Sampy.

Beth McCord: 44:30

I love being here.