The ‘selfish’ woman's guide to divorce

If you've ever felt guilty for putting yourself first, this episode is for you.

Kate is joined by Valerie Jones, author, coach and founder of The Selfish Woman movement, to explore what it really means to be a 'selfish woman' in divorce - and why reclaiming that word could be one of the most important things you do for yourself.

We talk about:

• What being a 'selfish woman' really means – and why reclaiming it matters
• How to rebuild self-trust when divorce has knocked your confidence
• The moment Valerie knew it was time to leave her marriage
• The difference between healthy guilt and the kind that holds you back
• Why taking a moment to pause is one of the most powerful things you can do
• Practical ways to start showing up for yourself again

This episode is for any woman who has ever put herself last – whether she’s in the middle of separation, still deciding or rebuilding life on the other side.

Meet Valerie Jones

Valerie Jones is the author of The Selfish Year, host of The Selfish Woman podcast, and founder of The Selfish Woman movement. Her work helps women let go of ‘good girl’ conditioning and people-pleasing, stop seeking external approval and build unapologetic self-trust. Valerie meets women exactly where they are and helps them show up for themselves, fully. 

You can learn more about Valerie on her website and buy her book The Selfish Year on Amazon. Complete Valerie's quiz to find out the hidden ways you might be sabotaging yourself. 

More divorce resources

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Book a free 15-minute consultation with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.

Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?

Kate’s book amicable divorce includes dedicated chapters on navigating the emotional journey of separation, as well as practical advice to help you through every step of the process. Find it on Amazon today.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to the Divorce Podcast, where we explore all aspects of ending relationships, separation, and parenting apart. If your marriage or partnership has ended, or you have friends and family who are separating, this podcast is for you. I'm Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist, and co-founder of Amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. In each episode, we look at relationships and separation from different angles, including the emotional, legal, and social. I'm joined by experts and special guests who share their own unique stories, experience, and tips, with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder and better way. In this episode, I'm joined by Valerie Jones to explore what it really means to be a selfish woman in divorce and why that might be exactly what you need. Valerie shares her own story and the experiences that led her to this idea before unpacking what selfish really means in this context. We talk about her concepts of the first girl and the hurt girl, how to rebuild self-trust, and the moment she knew it was time to leave her marriage. We also explore the difference between healthy and unhelpful guilt. And Valerie shares some practical ways to start showing up for yourself again. If you loved this episode, then please subscribe and rate us on your preferred listening platform. Welcome, Valerie. Thank you so much, Kate, for having me. It's a pleasure and it's really lovely to meet you. I'm excited to hear all about what being a selfish woman really means today. Now, we're redefining today, I guess, what it means to be a more honest or have a more honest and truthful appraisal of yourself, and you've chosen to call it being the selfish woman. Before we get into the whys and the wherefores, perhaps it'd be a really nice place to start by just telling us a little bit more about your own personal story and what's brought you to this idea of the selfish woman.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

You know, I was raised as I was raised to be the good girl, the nice one. Put everybody before yourself, and everything will be okay for you. So many women can relate to this, right? Raised to do everything right, don't rock the boat, and you know, you'll be okay, you'll be safe. And so I really then just carried that into adulthood, like so many of us do. I got married at 20, had three kids by 30, and was a stay-at-home mom, which I loved. But at the same time, I didn't realize that I was putting myself on the back burner for everybody else. And I didn't even think about any other option for me. And so as I was going through my life, I realized that not only was I not prioritizing myself, I was in fact allowing a lot of toxic behaviors into my life because I wasn't setting boundaries, I wasn't putting myself first. And my marriage really ended up exploding in a fairly dramatic fashion 24 years later. And I found myself single and completely lost. But instead of really going deep into myself, which I'd never been taught to do, what did I do? I just got married again. I found somebody else and let's go. Like, I'm not gonna do that again. And uh quickly got married again. My kids were now, you know, adults and out in the world. And we ended up having this whirlwind two-year relationship, which looked incredible on paper. We were living in Spain. We, you know, bought an apartment in Valencia, restored it. We had this great business, and outwardly it all looked great. But inside, I was so unhappy. I was really desperately miserable and I couldn't figure out why. And all I knew was that I was the problem. There was something wrong with me. That's what I really believed. And uh what I didn't know at the time was I was in an emotionally abusive relationship. And so two years after being married and living in Spain, I got to the end of it all. I got to the end of myself. And I and I thought, you know, I've been selfless my whole life. And I really thought that was the way to go. But it didn't work for me. And not only that, I just felt like I was so lost and I didn't know who I was anymore. Nothing I knew how to do as a coach and somebody who's, you know, been in the self-development world for a very long time. None of that was working. None of my tools were working. And so I uh in January of 2020, I said, well, what if I just decide to be selfish? Which was a dirty word for me. Like, you know, we don't like this word. It's a very uncomfortable word, but it wouldn't leave me alone. And so I thought, you know what, let's just give it a try. So what if I was selfish for an entire year? What if for a whole year I did what was right for me and I called it the selfish experiment. And I really wanted to find out what would happen if a woman decided to choose herself for a whole year. And so I embarked on this year of doing just that. And it not only transformed my concept of what selfish means, which is why I'm redefining it for women, but it really transformed me in every area of my life. And so I've really come to see that this is the key for so many women who get stuck in self-abandonment, people pleasing, not understanding their own value or worth, and really like constantly just giving, giving, giving from exhaustion and resentment and depletion, which is where I was. And so redefining selfish is really coming back home to ourselves and going, what really matters? And is my relationship with myself being a top priority in my life? And if it isn't, then I'm gonna get into trouble. So I better prioritize that.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

It sounds like an incredible journey and an absolutely fascinating kind of year. What was that first year of deciding? I mean, I want to debate the word selfish, but I've I kind of feel like I want to understand what you were doing first before we we rush into that. So what was that first year like? Give us some examples of you putting yourself first. See, I can't even say it, you being selfish.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

I know it's it's so uncomfortable. And it was for me too, but something in me was was calling me to do this. And, you know, the first thing I did was I took some space. So I said, you know what? I need some space to just figure out what's going on in our marriage, figure out what's going on with me. And so I got on a plane and I came back to Canada where I'm from, where my kids live. And I just was like, you know what? I'm just gonna take up a little bit of time to just like get clear. And, you know, what I quickly realized was I didn't know how to make a decision on my own. I had abdicated my my power to everybody else my whole life to make decisions for me. And I thought I was just being easygoing, you know, go with the flow. But what I really was doing was abandoning myself because I didn't know what I wanted or needed and letting other people make decisions for me, which just led me into chaos. And so taking that space where I was like, wait, I have to do what's right for me, I better figure out what that is. And I quickly realized I didn't know who I was. I didn't actually know how to make a decision that was right for me and not just right for the kids or right for the family or right for the job, but what was actually right for me. And so the first awakening I had was I didn't know myself like I thought I did. And if I'm gonna be truly selfish, not the like, oh, I'm just gonna do spas and like, you know, get massages. Like, no, if I'm actually going to be truly like full of myself, my connection to my true self, I have to get to know her like I never have before. And so that was the first realization that made me go, oh, this is a very different experience than I thought it would be, because it's all about facing those parts of me that I actually had been running from my whole life.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

So the first step then was really know yourself. And you were almost defining what you mean by selfish then in that in that last kind of conversation. So expand on that a little bit. You know, we might think selfish as being, yeah, like you said, going to a spa or just spending money on myself or doing what I want at every moment of the day. But what do you mean when you say selfish in that context?

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yeah. If we think of self less, I started realizing like, wait, have we been sold a bill of goods that we're supposed to be less of ourself or everybody else? And what if selfish meant full of self, not full of ourselves, like arrogant, but full of connection to self? Because if we're not full of self, what are we full of? Fear, anxiety, worry, depression, people pleasing, perfectionism, control, all of the coping mechanisms we use to try to stay safe in our life. If you strip all of that away, then it's just you and you. And you better figure out how to connect to the real you. And so I started really realizing that I didn't know how to do that, but I better figure it out because I had a whole year of having to make decisions from connection to myself. I call it my inner being, maybe you call it your intuition or your soul or your gut. But it's really that knowing place of like, this is right for me. And yeah, it wasn't about just doing whatever I felt like in the moment. In fact, what I realized is it's actually having to override the comfort zones. It's like, what I actually want to do is just like run back to Spain and say, forget it. Let's make this marriage work and I'll do whatever you need me to do because I don't want to have to get divorced again. But when I connected to my truth, it was like stay in this discomfort of being alone right now because you need to reckon with yourself. And so it's really such a deeper level of connection. And that's when you start to actually get to know yourself. And then you have to act on it. You have to act on the scary thing that your intuition is saying that you need to do.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

And you know, when you say you have to get to know yourself, do you come up against a sense of recognition when you truly know yourself? Do you recognize that? Or how do you know that you are speaking to the real self or the true self versus the version of yourself you happen to be at that particular moment because you're partway through the developmental process? So, what demarks the real you, the true you?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

How do you know? So, in the book, I talk about this concept that I came up with called first girl and hurt girl. So, first girl is that part of us before the world told us who to be, before anything happened that created the messaging that we're not enough or we're too much. That first girl is our creative self, our free self, the part of us that doesn't care what people think and is just in the moment and present. And maybe you don't even remember being that part, that version of yourself, but she's there, she exists. But in order to cope with life as life goes on, she's not allowed to come because she's too loud or she's too quiet or she's not enough, or she, you know, whatever. And so we learn to sort of exile that first girl version of ourself. We put her in a closet and put duct tape over her mouth, and and her girl takes over. And her girl's the one who says, okay, life is scary. Well, life is not safe in these certain situations. And I know how to deal with that. I know how to become who you need me to be in order to stay safe. And we start becoming this other version of ourself that's very helpful. She protects us, she, she, she keeps us safe when we need it, whether that's doing what we're told or not speaking up or not having an opinion or getting perfect grades, like whatever it is. And so then we become a woman without even realizing that her curls still run in the show when we're not in danger anymore. But now all of these personas, these coping mechanisms start to feel like our identity. I am a control freak. I am a perfectionist. And so we just believe that that's who we are and that's how we do life until it starts to break down, until it's really not working as well anymore. And life starts to whisper to us, like, wait, what are you doing? There's something wrong here. And so part of my knowing this was go back and rescue first girl. Like, let's take her out of the closet and give her a seat at the table again and help her to be safe enough to start showing up again. And when I started really doing that work of like creating safety inside myself, like it's safe to connect to that creative self. It's safe to do something that would disappoint other people, whatever it might be. When I started doing that work, that's when I started really connecting to my truth. And I will say one of the easiest ways for me to start to understand that is does this make me feel good or does this make me feel bad about myself? And when I thought about, let's say, I'm gonna run back to that marriage and I'm gonna just shape shift and be who I need to be to make that work. That made me feel bad about myself. That made me feel like, you know what, that feels icky. And I don't think that's really what I'm supposed to do, even though her girl is screaming inside my head, going, go back, go back, go back. When I imagined that first girl, like, but what really would feel good, make me feel good about myself? It was like, no, stay in this discomfort a little longer and be with yourself more. So I started to really understand how to know the difference between, you know, the coping mechanism that I've been operating in my whole life versus the real truth about who I am and what decisions aren't necessarily easy, but are actually right, aligned with my truth.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

And where did you look for signs of that first girl then? So what mentally were you doing to try and find where she was?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

So that was a lot of meditation, it was a lot of journaling, it was a lot of being alone with myself. You know, I talk in the book about the Blaise Pascal quote: all of humanity's problems stem from man's inability or unwillingness to sit alone quietly in a room by themselves. We avoid that. We avoid, and so many of my clients come to me and they're like, I don't want to be alone. Let me distract myself in all these other ways from having to sit with myself. Because as soon as I get still and quiet, all of this stuff gets stirred up and I don't want to be with that. And so I really, and because it was the COVID year, the border shut down. And so all of a sudden I couldn't go back to Spain and my husband couldn't come to Canada. We were really had to be separate for a while, which was exactly what I needed. So I sat in an apartment in Victoria by myself for months, and I really reckoned with myself in that way. And I started to hear the whisper of my intuition bubbling up. And I would just start to act on it in very tiny ways. You know, where am I gonna go on my walk today? Let me feel into that and then just do it. And it started to build self-trust. I think that we, if you have been abandoning yourself or acting out of coping mechanisms your whole life, there's not a lot of self-trust there. So yeah, it's hard at first to know, is this really my truth? Or is this just me, you know, doing the thing I do again? So those that self-trust comes in very small ways. And, you know, in my book, I give selfish strategies. So each chapter, I give you little things you can do every day, micro steps that will help you to start to connect to that voice because it's not like flipping a switch, is it? It's like slowly turning that dial. And if you do it every day, whether it's like go meditate and for 10 minutes, or journal with intention, or go for a walk and just be with yourself and feel your emotions, like whatever it is, little steps, you'll start to slowly turn the dial up. And as you act on what that intuition is saying, whether it's hey, have that difficult conversation today, or you know, go have a nap. You need rest, whatever it might be, like act on that and you'll start to build self-trust. And the more you build that, the louder that voice gets and the more you connect to it.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

And when you were sort of at the beginning of this journey and the relationship that you were in was breaking down, what were the signs that this was somehow going to be important? What tipped you over the edge from being in a relationship that just kind of was dysfunctional to actually saying that there is a difference here between being in a dysfunctional relationship, which I'm just gonna carry on with on that sort of non-path, if you like, versus actually I'm going to do something about this? What tipped you into that new space? Because I think that's the you spend a lot of time with one foot in both of those two camps, I think, when the relationship is breaking down. What enabled you to put two feet in the I'm I'm leaving camp?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah, you know, I did. I spent a lot of time on the fence. I think a lot of people do, because we want it to work and we don't want to get divorced. And we want to make sure we're doing everything we can to make it work. And we were both doing that. We were in therapy and, you know, really trying. But yeah, I was on the fence of indecision and and women are resilient and we keep trying and try this, try that, you know, do something different. And I was doing all the things that so many of my clients do as well, which is just keep going, keep trying, maybe this will work. But yeah, there is a tipping point. In the book, I call it my sofa of truth, because I we'd had yet another fight, and I was experiencing a lot of gaslighting, which, as we know, it just creates so much confusion. And I just thought, like, I'm the problem and I don't know what to do. But then it started going into the silent treatment, which I feel like that is one of the most painful things you can endure when your partner is sitting next to you, but surgically cutting you out of their reality. And this went on, it got worse and worse. And at one point, it was like two weeks where he was able to just literally cut me out of his existence. It was so physically painful that it was just starting to break me down. And it didn't matter what kind of conversations we had, it just kept cycling through. And at that time, I didn't really know much about emotional abuse. So I just was like, what is going on? So my sofa moment, I was sleeping on the sofa after another fight. And I like, I can't even be here with this silent treatment. So I'm sleeping on the sofa crying and trying to figure out how to fix it. And I just had this voice that said inside of me, like, this is the last time you're ever gonna sleep on this sofa. Like, this is the last time you're going to allow this to happen. Like, raise your standards. You deserve more. And this voice inside was just getting louder and louder. And that night I was like, I surrender to that. Like, I cannot keep doing this. And as much as I don't want to change this or leave or disrupt or rock the boat, I have to save myself because it was scaring me how much pain I was in. And so that's when I said, I literally said the next day, I said, I'm raising my standards of what I deserve. You can raise your standards with me or not. That's up to you. But I need to take some space. And that's when I decided to go and start to, you know, get some space. And that's when I started researching emotional abuse. And I started seeing the cycle that we were just going through, right? The tension and then the blow up and then the love bombing, and you know, over and over and over and just getting worse and worse. And that's when I really started to get clear on what was really going on. And I think that tipping point comes. And if we ignore it, that's when things start to, I think, get really bad because now we're just ignoring our truth of what we know we deserve and have to do. And it's hard to do it on your own. It really is.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

But you did do it on your own, and that's one of the amazing things, isn't it? Because you stepped out of that and you started essentially, it feels like, to plan a journey of recovery and a journey of discovery as well. So, how did you did you have a concept of that before you started? Or did you just kind of put one foot in front of the other and see what happened? Because that that's quite a bold move.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

It is a bold move and it's a and it's a dramatic story, which is why I love taking my story in the book and then breaking it down to simple steps that women can use wherever they are. But yes, I literally just jumped on a plane and I had no plan. I had a strong intuition of like, just do it. And it was the moment of walking out was the hardest part. But then once I was back in Canada, I was really like, what am I doing? I have no idea. Let me go see my kids for a couple of weeks. Then what am I gonna do? Let me go hang out over here, you know. And I was really just like every next step revealed itself as I took the first step. And it showed me a lot about why being selfish is so important for guidance because we are very good at wanting like A to Z. We know exactly what we're gonna do. I'm going to leave my marriage and then I'm going to do this and this, and it's all gonna work out. And once I can see the plan, then I will take action. It very rarely happens like that, does it? It's like normally it's like jump off the diving board and trust there's water in the pool. We've got to sometimes just go, you know what? I don't know how this is gonna work out, but I trust that as I'm doing what I'm meant to do for me, that it will. And that's really what happened in my selfish year is I just took one step and then the next step revealed itself. And it showed me how to live in this place of self-trust without a plan. And it really unfolded, it allowed it to unfold in such an adventurous, unique, and powerful way that changed my entire life.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

I mean, it's in it's an incredible story. But and I guess one of the things that keeps coming up in my mind as you're talking and telling me about the story is that how I a lot of us, I guess, suffer with overwhelming guilt, don't we? So, how did you cope with the feelings of guilt that might come up if you know you're you're taking this more self-directed, selfish path?

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yeah, huge guilt. I think women have a super highway of guilt in our brains. It's conditioned into us to feel bad when we put ourselves first, right? And so, and and again, it's like so many women say to me, I just feel so guilty I could never leave my husband, or I feel so guilty for leaving. And and okay, we've got to break that down. And and for me as well, I felt a lot of guilt leaving the country, being somewhere else, and still trying to work on that marriage because we still, you know, it wasn't like a one and done. We still stayed in therapy while I was on that selfish year because I didn't feel done. And actually, I gave myself permission to take as long as I needed to feel ready to make that choice. But the guilt of him being left behind and, you know, all of that was overwhelming. And that again helped me to start to reckon with why? Why do I feel so guilty? What is it about making this decision that I know is right for me? That is just plaguing me with I'm doing something wrong, I'm being bad. And I started to ask deeper questions. I think we need to ask better questions around guilt because it becomes an excuse, I believe, for us to just not take action. It's like, well, I feel too guilty. And so we don't even think about it. It's just this subconscious pattern that we give into. But what if we actually asked a better question about guilt? What if we started asking, okay, well, the definition of guilt means you've done something wrong and you need to make it right? That's healthy guilt. But unhealthy guilt is I haven't done anything wrong, but I still feel guilt. What if it's not guilt? What if if I actually haven't done anything wrong? Because, hey, leaving the country and going taking space, that's not wrong. I haven't done anything bad. Okay. I've just made a choice for myself that somebody else is having an experience of. But what if I'm what if I'm not feeling guilt? Because if I haven't done anything wrong, I can't call it guilt anymore. What is it? It's discomfort. I'm uncomfortable that I made a choice for me and somebody else is disappointed, or somebody else is upset, and I feel uncomfortable about their experience of my choice. And once I started to change my language, it started to soften and I was able to see it in a different way that allowed me to move into more empowered choices and be in that discomfort of other people's experience of my choice.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

That's so interesting, isn't it? The language and the reframing of the feeling makes such a difference as you explain it. And I, you know, I can think of you know, several people that we try and help, you know, on a weekly basis where they are in that moment of feeling too guilty to act. And just actually changing the language, I think is incredibly important and super helpful.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Totally. Well, words are spells, I believe. I think that's why they call it spelling. Words are spells, right? It's magical spells that we are casting when we use language and it defines our beliefs about something. And so, just like selfish, it's like, what if we just redefine that? We redefine words all the time. So why don't we take a word that has kept women oppressed and small and you know, towing the line of the patriarchy? And how about we just redefine it to an empowered choice? Why can't we do that with guilt? Why don't we decide that, yeah, guilt is there to help me when I've actually done something wrong? Hey, if I communicate in a way that that is rude or unkind, that guilt is my signal that I need to go make that right. Thank you, guilt. Okay. But if I'm just making a choice for me that I know is right and I'm feeling uncomfortable about that, that's okay. And that language that we use is so powerful to change our belief system and allow us to open to something new, where that resistance of the brain is saying, no, no, no, you're being bad. Like, actually, are we though? Need to challenge it.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

That's fascinating. In just a moment, Valerie's going to share her top tips on how women who are always giving and rarely resting can take some small, meaningful steps to start showing up for themselves. And I know that you wouldn't want to miss that. But before that, if this episode has given you a bit of clarity or comfort or just a tip that has made things feel a little bit more manageable, make sure to follow the Divorce Podcast on your favorite podcast app. Each week we're here with expert advice and real support to help you through your separation one step at a time. Right then, Valerie. So give us a little bit or give us an insight into some of those small, broken down, micro steps you were talking about before. So for listeners who recognize themselves in this conversation, always giving, rarely resting, what are one or two small steps they can take to start showing up for themselves?

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Mm-hmm. And I think back to when I was a stay-at-home mom of three kids and, you know, a husband who traveled all the time and feeling really lost and overwhelmed and no time to myself. I think back to those times because those are the times where it can feel like, well, that sounds great for you, but you don't understand my life and how many demands are on me. And it can feel like I'm I'm just giving to everybody, and maybe you are. But it doesn't mean you have to blow up your life right now to start to come back to your connection with yourself and to start to make changes. And that's why, like I said, I'm such a fan of micro changes, because you can find five minutes in your day. You can lock yourself in your bathroom or, you know, go for a walk or have a bath and find five minutes, and that's really all you need. And so if you're ready to get to that, you're if you're ready to start to see how powerful you really are. If you're ready to start to connect to your true self and get out of these patterns, then one thing I would say is start to look for a pause. So when we're in our patterns of just, yes, I'll do that, yes, I'll make your lunch, yes, I'll, you know, drive you here, drive you there. See if you can take a pause in that moment, even just for a couple of moments and take a breath, take a deep breath. And just give yourself a few seconds to pause. And what I want you to do in that pause is to check in. Check in with yourself and go, how do I feel right now? And what do I need? How do I feel? What do I need? And you might notice, you might be surprised, you might notice I feel angry and I need to take a break. Or I feel overwhelmed and I need a hug. And whether it's something that you give yourself in that moment or not, just that interruption of the pattern is going to start to help you be more aware of what's going on inside of you and not just being focused on everything else. So the power of the pause is really profound because it might not change anything in the moment, but what it's going to change is your connection to yourself. And the more you pause and just take one breath and check in, you will start to see that you're more observant of yourself. And that will lead to so much. So, like one simple thing, make it a game. See how many times you can take a pause in your day and go, how do I feel? What do I need? And then just keep going. So that's one thing. Another thing I think is incredible, and I mentioned it before is journaling. And I journaled every day in my selfish year, and I still do. But the thing that I've realized is like brain to hand, writing on paper, our thoughts, our experiences is so helpful, right? It it helps us to observe in a different way. We're out of the swirl inside of us and we're seeing the words on the page. One of the things I noticed when I was journaling in my selfish year, fairly early on, I was journaling about something. And then I realized, hang on a second, I'm gaslighting myself in my own journal. I'm like, I can't think that. I can't say that. And I'm like, whoa, like that pattern from the emotional abuse is still showing up in my own mind.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

So you mean you're self-censoring at that point still?

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, that's bad. I shouldn't be writing that. Like, whoa, that's so ingrained in me. It helped me to see how much our brains get changed or manipulated through a gaslighting experience. So it's like journaling with intention to really just be curious. And I love the idea of being the curious observer of ourselves. And so try to be the curious observer in your journal. Like, okay, something happened today, but what do I notice about that? How do I feel about that? What's coming up for me five minutes a day? And then the last one I would say is what I shared before, which is ask yourself this question. Because if you are a chronic people pleaser, or if you are really good at giving to everybody else, you've probably learned to override how you feel about something. And so my favorite question to ask is does this feel good or does this feel bad? So simple, but it's so effective, isn't it, when you say it like that? Yeah. Right. I had a client the other day say, you know, I always just let my husband pick what we're gonna get for takeout. But she's like, sometimes I really just want Chinese and he wants sushi, but I just say yes to sushi because I don't want to cause a problem. So she started like in simple, silly ways of like, wait, does sushi feel good or does sushi feel bad? Oh, it feels bad. Well, what do I want? What do I need Chinese? And she started just saying it. And he was like, sure, let's let's do Chinese. It wasn't a big deal to him. But for her, she had to learn how to override that tendency to just like abandon ourselves. So does this feel good or does this feel bad? Is a very simple question that will get you tuned in very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

That's amazing. And I always think though, when when you're making such a profound change in yourself, in your relationship with yourself, I think one of the natural things that happens is sometimes it upsets other people. And not everybody around you can support the change you make. So just one final thing, how can people cope with that?

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Yeah, it's a great question. And it's true, you know, like leaving a marriage, you're upsetting some, you're upsetting people, maybe your spouse, but also their family, and they don't understand. And I certainly got that misunderstanding of like, what are you doing? And, you know, and my kids weren't upset, but they were curious, like, what's mom up to? And, you know, I think that we have to get resilient about being misunderstood. Part of the pattern again is saying everyone needs to understand that I'm not doing this, I'm not a bad person. And and you know, you need to understand why. And because I don't want to feel this discomfort of being misunderstood or or somebody being upset with me. And honestly, it's like if we are living to never disappoint anybody, we're always going to be disappointing ourselves. So we've got to get resilient about it and understand that, like, you know, I like to joke with my clients who are getting out of divorces or getting out of marriages. I say, like, welcome to your villain era. Like, you are going to be the villain in somebody's story. And just accept it because you can't change that. So let's focus on what we can control, our words, our actions, our feelings, our thoughts. Do what we know is right for us and start to build resiliency around experiencing other people's disappointment in our choices, because ultimately, are we going to live our life like just trying to please everybody else? It's it doesn't make sense and it's not sustainable. So I think it's really a matter of resiliency. The more you do it, the less it matters because you get so happy and you get so fulfilled. And then you're giving from generosity and overflow, and you start creating this beautiful life for yourself. That's all going to require you to disappoint somebody. Someone's going to be upset with you at some point. And that resiliency only comes from experiencing it. You know, when we witness ourselves doing something scary, we build confidence, we build courage. But if there was no fear, we wouldn't need courage. And so look at the thing you're afraid of, disappointing somebody, right? And see that as an invitation to grow your courage as you stand in your conviction of what's right for you. And when every time you do it, you get a little more brave and a little more brave. But don't wait until it doesn't feel scary because you're going to be waiting a long time. You got to just do it.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yeah. Well, on that note, just do it. I like it. Val, it's been absolutely fascinating talking to you and hearing this story. I mean, what an incredible journey. And the book is absolutely fascinating as well. Where can people find the book? Where can they find out more information about you?

SPEAKER_00 36:55

So you can find The Selfish Year anywhere you buy your books, or you can go to my website, valeriejones.ca. And also I have a free quiz you can take. It's called Reveal Your Mask. And this is a super fascinating quiz because it's going to show you those coping mechanisms and patterns that you might not be aware of that are running your life. And I like to think of them as masks that we wear. We all wear them, but it's going to help you to see what yours are and then how to start taking those small actions that will help you to start to act in your truth instead of that mask. And really, it starts with being true to yourself and knowing yourself. And that's what the quiz will help you do. And I can share that link with you as well. And yeah, it's all on my website. Fabulous.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

So we'll get the links to the quiz and the book and we'll put them in the show notes. But thank you, Val. It's been a fascinating conversation. If you're looking for more help with separation or co-parenting support, you can also visit the amicable.co.uk website where you can explore our free resources or you can book a free advice consultation. Don't forget you can find me on LinkedIn. You can hear more about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com or find us on your favourite listening platform too. Val, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you very much indeed for joining me. And thank you, everybody, for listening.