Joey Pinz Discipline Conversations

#838 Kim Lengling: Nuggets of Hope: Turning Pain into Purpose 🇺🇸✨

• Joey Pinz • Episode 838

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How do we turn trauma into purpose? 🇺🇸

In this powerful episode of Joey Pinz Discipline Conversations, Joey Pinz sits down with veteran, author, and podcast host Kim Lengling to explore PTSD recovery, faith, kindness, and the daily habits that build resilience.

From surviving military trauma to living insulin-dependent with a rare form of diabetes (LADA), Kim shares how structure, belief, and small “Nuggets of Hope” can transform even the darkest seasons of life.

She reveals how giving hope to strangers in grocery stores became a mission… and how listening without judgment may be the greatest gift we can offer.

✨ Top 3 Highlights:

• 🇺🇸 The truth about PTSD civilians need to understand

• 🕊️ The moment grace changed her life forever

• 🌱 Why small acts of kindness create ripple effects

This episode explores faith vs. religion, mental health awareness, veteran advocacy, personal growth, and why asking “Why?” might change everything.

If you’ve ever struggled with fear, isolation, or hopelessness — this conversation will meet you where you are.

 

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Kim Legling. Absolute delight talking with Kim. I thank her so much. A veteran with PTSD. She is remarkable. She's written many books. She's got a podcast. um She's known there in northwestern Pennsylvania for giving out nuggets of hope. She's got small stones, rocks that have the word hope written on them, and she hands them out where she feels the need. um the Incredible story of perseverance, of what she went through so through community, through faith, through hope as well. She talks about being part of a veterans group that really gave her grace at one point and and made her see something that she She didn't want to see, but just remarkable strength and great, great attitude. And the energy so, so contagious from Kim. And I always say it's remarkable when a person not only helps himself, but turns around and helps others. She works with veterans now. And ah it's just a great conversation. Kim, thank you again. And thank you for watching and listening. Kim Legley, thank you for your time. How have dogs changed your life? Oh, gosh. I think they've saved it more than changed it. how so? Hmm. Just the calm presence that they give. I live with PTSD. And years ago, when i i would be experiencing, you know, hyperventilating, panic attacks, things like that, and high levels of anxiety, it was my dog. Hmm. who would come and just nudge me and lean against me. He's a big boy. It's like 105 pounds, a lab shepherd mix. wow And he would just come and lean against me. and that's what would refocus me. Cause you got that other heartbeat sitting beside you, you know, and my focus would go to him. And I'd be like, Oh man, thank you, buddy. Thank you. And then I could feel my heart rate coming down and my breathing smoothing out. And then, you know, Yeah, just animals are amazing. They are amazing. Unfortunately, if I've worked just a little bit with the canine for warriors out of Orlando where they get dogs and they give them to, to veterans and just the whole journey. I hear that time and again, dog saved my life. Yeah. Animals across the board are amazing. If you take the time to pay attention, Because they're always talking to you. They're not using words, but pay attention. Right. Pay attention. You know, it's amazing. Yeah, you don't need words to communicate, that's for sure. Yeah. No. You mentioned you're veteran, thank you, and you have PTSD. What should we know? What should civilians know about veterans with PTSD? For each person, it's different. Right. I mean, very, truly, very, very different, depending on if they were in combat zone or maybe it was military sexual trauma, such as mine was. Hmm. um Hmm. There's many different levels of it and how it affects people and how it settles. And that's how I look at it. Like for me, it was a life altering experience. so i So I viewed the world completely different. I viewed the world with distrust, sometimes hate. always felt like I had to be on, you know, hypervigilant, hyper aware and always locked and loaded, you know, because there was danger around every corner. um And that's not a healthy way to live. And once you, I was very fortunate, so fortunate and blessed that I joined a group. It's actually called the Veterans of the Vietnam War um in my local area, which I'm 20 years younger than everybody. So i'm considered their little sister, but it was open to anybody honorably discharged. And the wife of the commander at the time, we worked together and she said, Hey, join our group. Wow. I'm like, it's a bunch of Vietnam combat vets. I'm just some girl, you know? And, but I did, I did join actually 32 years now. i joined and those guys, It was the guys, my brothers, that noticed noticed things with me. And when I would go into a dark spot, they would notice that my mannerisms or how I was speaking or if I wasn't speaking or if I went into my little hole and didn't want to be around people. And one day, they one of them came up to me and said, we don't know what's going on with you, kid, but we recognize the signs. And you need to get to the VA and talk to the counselor. And I said, no, i used words. Wow. Hm. Yes. I'm fine. i don't need your help. There's nothing wrong with me. Leave me the bleep bleep alone. All right. And then another one of the guys said, if you don't go, going to drag you kicking and screaming. And I'm like, no, uh, they did drag me kicking and screaming. And I am forever, forever thankful and blessed that they did. Hm. Yeah. So it's different for everybody. That was a long way of answering your question. a different for everybody. I, I still carry it because how can something that happens to you that's so traumatic, you can't just put it in a box and lock it away because it's going to come blasting out eventually. Right It's going to come blast. You can't shove darkness down. there. You have to face it and sometimes kick its ass. Hmm. And sometimes you have to do that over and over again. You know, so for me, i had to do it over and over again. Now I don't have to do it as often, but every once in a while I'll be like, oh no, no, you're not coming in my back door today and ruining my day. Hmm. Not happening. You know, so I was very fortunate to be around people who also lived with PTSD, recognize what was going on with me. And they've been a huge support system to me, my veteran family um and the counselor that I saw for years. You know, no shame in that either. I needed help. And you need sometimes you need that outside your bubble. To give you advice. and an unbiased opinion so you can look at things as they truly are a little more rationally. Hmm. And I've been very blessed with the people that have been put in my path over the years. Hmm. I encourage anybody, it doesn't matter if you're a veteran or not, if you've experienced a trauma of some sort, and that could be anything, the list can be long. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Please, please seek help. don't Don't carry that stuff by yourself. You weren't meant to carry it by yourself. Please seek help. Hmm. I have two uncles that served in Vietnam and Kim, I would ask questions and they just would not talk about it. Yeah, they don't. They don't talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah, one's not with us anymore, the other is, but yeah, just, yeah, so we have to do our best as, know, to support and to, yeah, be part of the community and, and try to seek help. You know the one thing I do, I do suggest, and I've shared with many people over the years, because I'm a huge advocate for veterans, have been for decades, helping those, especially those with PTSD and those that are homeless or soon to be homeless for various reasons, things like that. That's pretty much what I do in my spare time. um Lost my tray, I thought. Your advice to give those, Oh, listen, If someone's talking, they might not be sharing their experience or their story that they went through, but listen and listen without judgment. Hmm. Just listen, because sometimes that's all somebody needs. Now, if they're in a danger to themselves, you can reach out for someone. Right. The easiest way to do that, this is for family members, loved ones, for the veteran community, it's dial 988 and then press 1. Pressing 1 is what gets you directly to the Veteran Crisis Hotline. I didn't know that. Super easy to remember now. 988, press 1. 24-7, qualified, certified people on the other end of the line, Just use it. use It's there for a reason. So use it. Super easy number to remember now. 988-PRESS-1. You know, as you say that, I remember when I would ask one of uncles specifically about Vietnam, the look that he gave me and the silence was just enough to say, don't ask me any more questions. But, you know, it's terrible. You know, some of the guys over the years that, because I, for 14 years, I wrote a monthly article in my local newspaper. And most of them were interviews with veterans. Wow. And I've interviewed so many Vietnam vets and World War II and Korea, former prisoners of war. And several, many of them that I interviewed have since passed. But many of them had never shared their story before. Yeah. Not once. And then there I was to them, this young girl, asking them if they wanted to share their story. And they they did. They did. And it was always so humbling, so incredibly humbling to hear, especially talking to the the former prisoners of war. Because they went through hell ah and back and back and back. I couldn't sleep for days after a couple of the interviews because I just, it they were letting go of it, but I received it and carried it for a few days. wow hmm I'm i'm ridiculously empathetic. And three days, the one after talking to the prisoner of war, the former prisoner of war, World War II, I couldn't sleep for three days because he he unloaded. And I just listened and tried not to let him hear me crying because he would only talk on the phone. He didn't want to, he said, I don't want to look in anybody's eyes when I share this story. So for three and a half hours, we had a phone call and he said, I'm doing it once and only once. I said, I appreciate your time, sir. And yeah, that's a phone call and a story and a piece of history. I will never I will never forget. It truly impacted me. And to write that out, it took me so long because I wanted to do him honor. Wow. Huh. And I said I would send it to him before I submitted it to the paper for publication. And he wanted it mailed. So I mailed it to him. And if, cause it's, this is a long process with doing the mail and telephone and he mailed it back to me and he had it all marked up with red pencil. And he, had he had changed his mind on a few things that he wanted the general public to know because he said it was too personal and probably too much for some people to take. And I had toned the article way down. From what he had said. So I abided by his wishes. Because I told him I would. And that was one article. That I got the most feedback on. i think over the years. Because people don't. I don't know why. um Why don't you sit and listen more. You know. Why why is a generation or two younger. Think they know so much more. Than those who went before them. I'm guilty of it too. We all are, you know, but I reached a certain age where I was like, these people blazed an absolute trail for me. They, they did things that you couldn't fathom and wouldn't want to think about or even imagine. So we could be safe. They did it for strangers. Not everybody can do that. And i'm I'm blown away over and over and over daily by what the men and women through the decades have done and had to endure while they were serving and even when they came home, what they had to endure or live with for decades and sometimes till the end of their life. I'm in awe. and truly humbled by their sacrifices. A couple months ago, I went to a local moose club here, you know and i want I want to talk to veterans. I love talking to them. I love hearing their story. But what you just said right there, they don't want to talk to you eye to eye. It's very interesting. Because you know I seem like a kid. i said hey you know i'm not i know I don't belong here, but I'd love to buy a round of drinks and you know talk. you know and and It just sounds kind of questionable and tough. You're right. Yeah. There's a, there is a, ah there is a strong hesitancy and right. Yeah. Who are you? What do you really want? Yeah, I don't blame them. No, I don't either because I was that same way for a long time, for years. Yeah. It's like, don't ask me questions. None of your damn business. It's none of your business. Yeah, yeah. I don't blame them. I mean, seriously, you're, my brain just went that way Yeah. What do you want to know for? Yeah. Right. You know what you want to, what you want to take it to judge me. That's what my brain was. Yeah. Ah. Cause I'm like, if people know, They're going to look at me different. They're going to judge me in some way. Right, right, right. That was how my brain worked. And now I'm to the point where it's like, I don't really care what people think of me because that's on them. Right. Has nothing to do with me. That's all on them. You know, but I give the respect to the, to those men and women who don't want to talk. I respect that. I also know though, at some point they need to, because you have to release that. too. Right. There's been so many, oh, and God bless them all, um that have passed away. And I attended their funerals. And I know. i know that they did not die in peace. And it just. Oh, goodness. Sorry. It just breaks my heart. Absolutely breaks my heart. We were ah we had a a mother call me one time at work. Because i work I was with a couple different veteran organizations. And this mother had called me and she said, I am desperate to help my son. He's gone so far beyond what I can do. And he is now living in a tent out in the woods. And he's isolated himself and he's just out there drinking. And I, so you know, which we did what we could and tried to get people to go help him. He was becoming a danger to himself and to others. And then ah the next call I got a couple weeks later was that he had taken his own life. And I had to leave work that day because I was so distraught because I thought, oh my gosh, what more could I have done? You know, could I have done more? Could I have gotten more people to go help? Should we have just tackled them and drug them to the hospital? You know, all these things go through your mind. um And those are the ones that hurt the most. And I, you know, I pray that I just pray because there, there's a lot, I think that leave this world alone. without a whole lot of peace. And I think that's a travesty. It is. Wow, didn't mean to start crying on you. Sorry about that. No, do not apologize. How can civilians help veterans? You know, find find a local veterans organization. i Pretty much everybody knows someone who's a veteran or you have a family member. Right. Ask them, you know, hey, is is there a veteran organization where a civilian can become a member, like part of the auxiliary? Or, hey, I'd love to do a donation drive for your organization. What do you need? You know, just ask. Just ask. You know, we have, in my area, We are now in our 26th year, myself and the commander's wife, um each and every month send boxes, at least 100 boxes to men and women deployed around the globe. And we've been doing that for 26 years now. uh And it's been an amazing journey. I'm writing a book about it, actually. And um we always have people, local schools, saying, hey, my fourth grade would like to write letters to the soldiers. Can we do that? And, you know, we have schools and church organizations and all kinds of people just coming up with their own ideas of what they can do. But letters from kids, you know, that's always needed. Like for your local soldiers and sailors home, your local VA hospitals, go visit. Go visit some guys, men and women, you know. There's so many things you can do. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned you're writing a book. You've written a lot of books, Kim. And so, I mean, if we just take one of the more popular ones, like ah how about When Grace Found Me, right? Real Stories of Women in Faith. What do you want the reader to come away with? Wow, those were done during the pandemic. um We needed a lot of faith at that time because fear was being shoved in our faces. Yeah. Sure was. And so I was like, nah, I'm not letting that happen. I'm living, you know, I got faith and that's a whole lot stronger than fear. um I guess they're anthologies. So in each book, it's 20 different anthologies. women sharing a story of when grace found them in their lives. And not every story is going to resonate with everyone, but there will be at least one story in there that will resonate with someone and touch their heart and maybe, maybe, so you know, spark their faith a little bit because a lot of people lost faith. Wow. Some people have walked away from their faith for various reasons. You know, and I think those stories could be those little nuggets of hope. you know, those little mustard seeds that someone might need. When did Grace find you, Kim? When two combat Vietnam veterans recognized I was struggling. I find that that's a pivotal point in my life. Pivotal point. And then another time was I was going through a divorce. My grandmother had just passed away. And there was a third thing. so There's like three things. Life altering changes happened within like a less than six month span. Yeah. And I found myself on my knees. Crying out to a God that I had told myself for years I didn't believe in. And I had this. ah these words come like whispered to me because I thought I was losing my mind. Like, yeah, I've completely lost it now, but it was, but those who hope in the Lord will soar on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not faint. And I thought, well, that sounds pretty Bible-ish to me. I've got to have a Bible in this house somewhere. So I went, cause that was still at the point in my life where it was like, you know, hated the world. hated God, but told myself I didn't believe in him. So how can you hate something that doesn't exist? Hmm. That's the mindset I was in. So I did find the Bible and I tried to find it, but I'm like, how do I find anything in this book? Because I'd never read the Bible. I was in my early thirties and Then um I had, you know, it was three to three times I felt that little nudge, that little stirring with those words. And i got I got ticked off and just threw the Bible on the ground, on the floor. And I have hardwood floors, so it slid a little bit. And I'm just sitting there crying and thinking, what um you know, my mind's in a swirl and ah just to a bad spot. And looked down at the Bible, grabbed it, picked it up. And when I looked down, It was as if they were lit up, but those who hope in the Lord will soar up things like people. Wow. Hmm. And it was Isaiah. And I went, okay. Okay then. And, uh, that was the second point in my life. When grace found me, I firmly believe God put those bets in my face and literally in my face and, it was definitely him who directed me to get a Bible that I knew was just shoved in a drawer somewhere in my house that I had never read. Wow. And, uh, it was from that point on, I started going to church every Sunday, walked in angry, left angry, kept going though, kept going until one day I walked in angry, but I didn't leave that way. Wow. And, uh, yeah, yeah, Yeah. Grace is, I think if your heart is open to it and you do have faith, grace will find you time and time again. i believe that. Would some people call grace the Holy Spirit? Yeah, I would. Because I think the Holy Spirit is what's giving us grace. Hmm. You know, um because we're not worth it. None of us, at least ah in my faith, my belief, none of us are worthy of our Lord's grace. Hmm. But he gives it anyway. And that, to me, is humbling. Because who am I? mean, truly, look in the mirror and you're like, who am I? In the whole scheme of things, in the whole scheme of you know the entire planet, Who am i I'm this teeny tiny little piece of nothing. But to him, I'm a masterpiece. Wow. I mean, truly, i don't know what your belief is, but that's my belief. And it says so in the word. And I believe the word. so What's difference between faith, spirituality, and religion? Spirituality, I don't understand. I'll just be honest. I don't understand because people who say I'm very spiritual, I've never talked to someone who's, it's been like one way of being spiritual. So I've never quite, and I'm not judging it. Hmm. I've just never understood it. So I don't want to comment on something I'm not educated enough on because I don't want to come across as judgy. Hmm. You know what I mean? um Religion to me, the difference between faith and religion To me, faith is full-fledged belief. Your heart is open to it. And I mean, it's just, it's belief, period. Religion to me, to me, I can only talk for myself, is, it seems as if it has more ritualistic things in it. You have to do this in order for this, in order for this. Right. And I've never quite understood that concept. These strict rules. Now, like I don't know. See, it's not even making sense now when I'm saying it out loud. All these strict rules and stuff I've never quite understood. Every religion is so different from each other. And yet there's a lot of them that have, there's a lot of stuff that's common. But for for my belief and how I practice my faith, you know i go to a Baptist church. um It's not... I can only compare it to Catholics, I guess, because that's the next one that I know the most about. I've never understood why. Why do you have to eat fish on Fridays? yeah I've never quite understood it just simply because I don't know enough about Catholicism. Right. um And it seems like there's an awful lot of of very strict, different things. Seems arbitrary. Yeah. And you're praying to all these different people for different reasons. And I was like, well, why aren't we all just praying to God? Yeah. So I've just never understood it. So to me, that's what it seems. That's what religion seems like. I could be completely off base. I see. see. um But yeah, if that made any sense at all. Certainly. And then the difference between faith and hope. You talk about nuggets of hope. Yeah, nuggets. I've become known as the the hope lady. Yeah. um I actually, like I've got one here. Three or four, years three years ago, found these little nuggets of hope. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. because I had this very strong nudge one day and the word hope was everywhere. i saw it. I read it. I heard it. It was, you know how people see numbers are like, Oh, I should play the lottery. Yeah, yeah. Well, I saw this word hope and I, I knew that I was supposed to do something with it, but I'm going, and this was at a time in my life where I wasn't feeling all hopeful and happy. And so I was like, what, you want me to give people hope? How am I supposed to do that? ah You know, with an attitude I was saying, Then i remembered I had these this little pack of cards. It was like six cards. And I had gotten at a networking event when I still worked out in the corporate world. And you know they said, you're awesome. You're amazing. you know Those kind of cards. Sure. So there was like a little pack of six. So I'm like, all right, I'll take those and I'll just carry them with me. So I did. And I was out in the store, think Walmart one day. and I was like, all I'm just going to tuck those cards wherever. So I tucked some in with the motor oil, put one in the pocket of a pair of jeans, put some in with the cookies, you know, till I had all six of them somewhere. And I just kind of went, all right, six nuggets of hope are out there. And that's how it popped in my head. That's when I started calling them nuggets of hope. But it didn't stop there. I kept getting this, you know, you got to give hope. You got to give people hope. And I'm going, I'm a mess. I'm a ball of mess. And you want me to give people, you know, I'm arguing with God, this which doesn't work, by the way. For those of you listening that are that are, you know, have faith, you know, arguing with them doesn't work because you aren't going to win. Yeah. Um, so I got online and I was just like typing in nuggets of hope, you know, trying to brainstorm with myself. And I found these and I like, oh my gosh, those are actual nuggets of hope. So I bought some, uh, they're a little more expensive than I anticipated. And I'm like, okay, I'm doing what I think I'm supposed to do. So I started carrying these with me and I was in the store one day and i had one in my pocket And I saw an older lady just standing, staring at the shelves of items. And as I was walking towards her, i just, I got this such a strong feeling, that such a strong feeling. She needs hope. And I just went, oh, okay, here we go. Oh my goodness. She's either going to think I'm crazy or I don't know. yeah know So I walked up to her very quietly, made sure she could see me because I never want to startle someone. And I just said, excuse me, ma'am, I would love to give you a nugget of hope. And I held out my hand and she held out hers and accepted it. And I just said, I wish you a blessed day. And I turned to walk away. And as I was walking back towards my cart, I heard her say, oh my goodness, you have no idea. And I just kept walking. And I also don't think I'm supposed to stand and chit chat with them. I'm just supposed to give them that wish him a blessed day and be on my way. And I've been doing that for about three years now. Wow. And so I wrote a book about that. um And some, I do share some of my experiences in there because I've had laughter. I've had tears. I've had people hug me. I've had people look at me like, what on earth? You know, like you are crazy. But out of all of them, not a single person has not taken or accepted every single one. Really? Even an older gentleman had to have been in his 80s who was angry and yelling and swearing at me in the middle of Walmart. Wow. And he took it too. You know, and there's, there was many times I would finish my errands, get in my car and just lean my head on my steering wheel and just cry. I don't know those people, don't know their stories, don't know what they're going through, but the feeling was so, so strong that they needed hope. And I'm thinking, okay, God, if that's what you want me to do, then I'll do that. Because I've been in that spot too. in that dark spot for various reasons, you know, loss of a pet, the loss of a loved one, watching a friend die of cancer, you know, life is very hard sometimes. And for me, it's very easy to let myself go down in a hole. I recognize that now. And I also know it's not healthy. So i I don't let myself go there, but it could be very, I could isolate and be in my house and not talk to people or see them for two, three, four weeks at a time and be happy as a clam. Is that healthy? No. So I recognize it in myself and it's on those days. It's on those days where I'm like, oh no, I'm not going to have a dark day, not happening. It's on those days where like, Kim, pull up your big girl panties, grab a few nuggets of hope and go running around doing some errands or something. You know, and I have found when I do that, even if it's just to go to Starbucks to get a coffee, you know, just something like that to make myself get out of the house. Right. I always make sure I have one of these in my pocket because you never know. Just in case you see me, just in case you see somebody who may need it. Yeah. You never know because it doesn't happen all the time, but I will get a very strong feeling. Like if I'm walking, I'll be like, Oh, most recently I didn't, my nugget of hope was in my console in my car. Yeah. So I didn't have it with me. I was in a grocery store just picking up a few things real quick. But every aisle I went down, I saw this Vietnam vet in a wheelchair. He had a Vietnam vet ball cap on and He had 10 Stouffer's frozen meals. You know, those little things you microwave. Those little personal dinner. TV dinners is what we used to call them. Yeah, used call that, yeah. Yeah. um He had 10 in his cart. and But I saw him in every aisle. And I'm going, God, am I supposed to... talk to him. It was just such a strong feeling. And was like, no, no. And then I'm like, Oh, I don't even have my nugget of hope in my pocket anyway. So I went to check out and he's, he comes right up behind me. I'm like, okay, he's either following me or I'm supposed to do something, you know? And so I was paying for my stuff and he was like pretty frail. Um, Vietnam vet, so obviously older, they're now in their seventies and eighties, um, look, seem pretty frail. And that was literally, he just had those 10 TV dinners in this cart. And I thought that might be, that might be his food for the week, you know? And I'm like, they cost what? Two bucks a piece. So I paid my stuff and I leaned towards the cashier and I said, can you please ring his stuff up on my bill too, please? And she went, okay. So I took a really long time bagging, pretending to bag my very few items while she rung everything up. And then I paid for it. And he's trying to hand money. Well, how much is it? How much is it? And she says, oh, it's taken care of. And he's like, no, no, no. And he kind of got worked up. And then I turned back to him. I said, sir, I want to wish you a truly blessed day. I took care of your bill for the day. Have a blessed day. And he sat there with this look of stun on his face. Like, what? You know, and I said, keep your money. Have a blessed day. And I got my stuff and trotted on out to my car. And I thought, you know, if that $20 that he was able to keep in his pocket, maybe that's helping him get something else. Maybe he needed milk and eggs too. You know what I mean? Maybe he needed gas for his car. And that 20 bucks will help him get some gas, you know, so. To me, that was that was the way I was able to do a nugget of hope that day. um I don't understand why more people don't do small things like that. there it does yeah And you don't have to pay for someone's groceries or anything like that. Right. To me, being a nugget of hope, being kind, being kind does not cost a dime. You can smile at a stranger. You have no idea what your smile might do for their entire day. You have no idea what their life is, what they're going through. Hold a door for someone. Offer to carry someone's groceries out. Offer to put their groceries in their car. Now, nowadays people get all, you know, the don't touch my stuff, but know I've done, i still do that. If I see an older woman and I'll be like, she might be a widower or a widow. And she's trying to put six bags of groceries in her trunk and she's struggling. I'm not going to stand there and watch her. you know I'm going to go over and help her. So it's pouring down rain. Who cares? I'd rather her get in her car and be dry. I'm fine. I'll go home and change my clothes. Know what I mean? So it's just, i don't know. I don't understand why more people don't think that way. Why everybody's so quick to see, to see difference and to judge or cause division. Why? That's, I think the question for the ages, why? this ongoing thesis, and it's got some holes, Kim, but, you know, giving like that is selfish because I end up feeling so good about it. You know, when I do something like that, right, I end up feeling so good about it and I walk away thinking, I feel great now. Did I do that for that person or did did I do that for me? You know, so I wonder if more of us had that attitude, how better we would all be. You know, with hope and business, Yeah. in business We're really taught that hope is not a strategy. You know, if somebody comes up in a presentation and says, you know, we want got these big contracts. I hope they come in. Boom. You know, hammers come down. You can't hope for stuff. But that's, of course, that's for business. That's not what we are in life. It's very different. So we have to kind of reframe that word a bit. Yeah. Yeah. You're probably right. But I also think businesses can be run, at least the ones, I can only speak for the ones that I've been in. um If there was a little more empathy for the employees and not just looking that at them as an employee who you've put them in this box and that's what they're supposed to do and nothing else. hmm hmm And don't question, don't rock the boat. This is how we do it. Or this is how we've always done it. So dot, dot, dot. You know, that always just annoyed the heck out of me. um Because, or people, and I grew up, even I had people like my mom or my grandmother even, you don't take your problems to work. You leave everything, all of that at home. Well, that's not possible. if you' If you're going through something pretty big at home, maybe it's a divorce or domestic violence, or your child is a drug addict. i don' you know I'm just trying to think of something big that's really, really tough. You can't just go to work and pretend that none of that exists. So it's going to affect all aspects of your life. I'm not saying employers should be like counselors and all of that, but maybe a little more cognizant and open-minded um to to their employees and not just looking at them as a number and... you know, or like you got your sales force. Don't look at your employees as dollar signs because they're people, you know? And I know it's a hard line to follow. I understand that. um Yeah, oh It's, it's, and for, I can only speak for this. I live in a rural area, so I can't speak for like big multi, multimillion dollar companies or anything like that or multibillion dollar companies. But I think, the proper training for for the different levels of management. I think maybe the proper training. Hmm. Make make sure they're trained. and Have you ever been in a company where someone gets the promotion just because? Of course. Hmm. They weren't qualified for it, but now they're and so all of a sudden and you know overseeing 10, 20, 30, 40 people, and they don't have a clue what they're doing. They don't know how to supervise or manage. So make make sure the folks know how to supervise and how to manage. you A happy employee is a productive employee and one that will stay around. I don't care how cheesy that sounds, it's true. but sure is. Your podcast, Let Fear Bounce, tossing out not nuggets of hope. what is What's your goal there? but You just keep yourself busy, don't you? yes Yes, i do Yes, I do. That started during the pandemic. um And I had lost my job. Because the world shut down. I was a sales and marketing manager and I was a road warrior. So I was on the road all the time going to visit the customers. It was in manufacturing. Well, the world shut down. There were no doors that were opening anymore. So there was no place for me to go. my customer There was no customers to visit. And we didn't know how long that was going to last. And so, and it was, you know, I saw it coming. I knew it was coming because our company had to close its doors too, just like everybody else. And so I saw it coming. But i it was also, you know, I woke up the next morning. I'm like, the this is not where I expected to be at this point in my life. You know, at all. So I told myself, Kim, be ticked off. Be really angry for 24 hours. And then after that, pull up your big girl pants and figure out what it is you like to do. What are you passionate about? And what are you good at? And then do it. Make something happen because right now you got nothing but time, you know? So for 24 hours I was angry and I did it really well. I did that very well. You did what very well? had the anger? be i was I was able to be angry for 24 hours. I say congratulations. Yeah, I did it very well. say, Let's just say the woods and my dog heard a lot of words on our walk. I say. i said And then I apologize to God for everything I said. but But I was angry. I did it well for 24 hours. And then I woke up the next day and sad I was literally sitting on the edge of my bed going, all right, okay, Kim, let's buck up, buttercup. Hmm. And I was like, well, I like writing, but I never had the chance to like really seriously do it because I was just doing the monthly article. I love talking to people, meeting new people. mean, truly do because that seems to be what lights me up at certain times. And what can I do with that? you know? And I was like, what's this podcasting thing? I didn't, I do nothing about podcasting. Cause I was just busy working, raising a child, you know, doing all the things I had never listened to a podcast or watched one or anything. Hmm. And so I literally Googled it. And then later on that day, like recorded my first episode, which absolutely is horrible. Wow. It was just horrible. Um, but I did it anyway. and decided to keep doing it. And I decided to call it let fear bounce because at that time it felt like you couldn't turn on the radio or the television without fear being shoved down your throat. Crazy time. um You know, your neighbors, your family members, oh, you can't stand that close to me. Don't breathe on me. I'm like, oh my gosh, you all are losing your minds. You all lose your dang minds. um So it was crazy that the world was crazy at that time, you know? arrows, sticker arrows on floor, grocery store floors that you have to walk this way. Yeah. Are you kidding? You know, I walked the opposite way on purpose in every store I went to. I didn't follow the arrows. So I just, I decided to do that. I decided to do a podcast. I reached out to a few people that I knew. I joined a few online, uh, women's networking groups. Um, that had women from all over the world in it that were all in kind of the same position that I was and started having them on, you know, as guests. And it was just kind of fun, but then it became something more like, wow, I think I'm supposed to do this. You know, no, I don't know where it's going to I'm what five years into it now. It's not a big podcast at all, but I don't think that matters. Well, I know it doesn't matter. doesn't matter me. Um, Because those people are sharing their stories and I think that they're meant to. You know what I'm talking about. You do it on your show. You know, give people the opportunity to share their stories. I mean, my my guests have been, and I'm sure you've had the same. Some are just so amazing. They leave you in awe. You get off and you're just like, wow, that person. Yeah. So I've met so many people doing amazing things and their small slice of the world. They are literally changing their small slice of the world for the better. And I'm like, we need more of these people. you know We need more of these people and touching on really hard topics or people that have been through horrendous, horrific circumstances. And here they are smiling and talking about it and helping others. Wow. Wow. So that's why I started it and that's why I keep doing it. Yeah, it's really good to be very genuine. Kim, is there something that you believed in firmly 10, let's say 10 years ago that you no longer believe in? good question. Yeah, unfortunately, it's like humanity. Hmm. people have lost their minds. they They're not thinking rationally. they're feeding They're feeding into what the media and all this propaganda that's being shoved in their face every day. They feed into it without educating themselves on it first. They're blindly believing things without educating themselves first. um I firmly believe in not being a sheeple. I don't blindly follow anyone ever. Um, I won't, you know, someone's telling me to go get a shot. Why? Why? You know, or any other type of thing. Um, I don't ever blindly follow. doesn't matter who it is, you know, or what level they think they're at over you. I don't have time for that. I know what's, I know what's best for me, you know? And I also, I'm one of those people that educates myself on stuff. I will do the research myself. I'm not going to say, oh sure, I'll do that. Or, oh sure, I'll take that. You told me it'll be good for me. Oh, okay. It's almost like, have you ever heard that the the guys in my post say this all the time? The Vietnam vets. Have you ever heard Boheka? No. It's an acronym. Boheka. Bend over, here it comes again. Ha! I don't want to be one of those people. And I can attribute that little acronym to my Vietnam friends, Vietnam vet friends, because they taught me that one. And I think it's pretty good. i think it's a good one. So yeah, I encourage people to not be sheeple. know Do your own digging around, do your own research. Don't blindly follow or believe what everybody sells and, you know, and don't, don't blindly believe everything I'm saying either, you know, You know, I heard an analogy recently. It's it's along the same line, just kind of about haters. But um the the crow is the only bird that will attack an eagle. So an eagle will be flying and the crow will land on its back and peck at it. now the eagle won't shake it off at all it'll just continue to increase the altitude, because it knows when it gets at a certain altitude, the crow can't handle it and will just fall off, so of course the moral is when when the world's on you and actually just continue to rise. Oh, I love that mental picture. Okay. That's awesome. First off, because it has a bald eagle in it or an eagle period in it. David Yes. Well, I didn't know that. That's awesome. See, I learned something today. Is there a question would you wish more people asked you, Kim? What a, wow. Yeah. Why aren't people asking why more often? You know, like a toddler, two-year-old. Why? Why, mommy? Why? Why, grandma? Why, mommy? When did we stop asking why? Hmm. ah Seriously, think about it. Look at the world right now. They're just like, well, well I read this and it said to do this. Why? i don't know. i think i don't I think I'm kind of the minority in that mindset. In my family, I am. Um, it's, I've never, I've always been that way. I've always been one that sticks up for the underdog, um, jumps in the fray, you know, no one, Oh, this is going to hurt, but going to do it anyway. You know, I'm one of those people and I know not everybody's that way. Um, but I think people, more people should ask why not in a sarcastic or mean or angry way, just truly, I want to educate myself on what it is you're talking about. i don't understand what you're saying. Can you explain to me why? hmm hmm And then go do your research. You know what i mean? i I don't know. That's, that's just me. I get frustrated with people. So I take a lot of walks with my dog. Kind of get off the grid, clear your mind. Indeed. Indeed. I think we all need to do that too. Just get outside. It's ground, you know, ground you. You nature is so healing and so soothing to a troubled or hurting soul. Just get out in nature and breathe. And if you don't have a lot of green and stuff around you, find a park or get a bunch of green plants, put them in one area of your house and that's your spot you go to. You know, just you got to. i think we were meant to have nature and in some way. git Get off of this. Get off of that twenty four seven You don't need it. It's not healthy. So Kim, I started my my business back in the 90s and I was working you know way too hard, not paying attention to myself and developing poor eating habits, etc., Next thing I know, I'm in front of the doctor. She tells me I'm at 340 pounds. So I had gained all this terrible amount of weight. I knew I was getting big. Didn't think I was getting, I got that big. But she tells me, if you don't lose this weight, you're not going to see your daughter graduate. My daughter was just born. Scared the life out of me. You know, driving home, punching the steering wheel. Really upset with myself. I can abuse myself all I want, Kim, but I've got this beautiful, beautiful daughter in the world. It's much bigger than me. Spent the next six, seven months, lost about 130 pounds, kept it off. you know You can't look at these things as a finishing line, right? These are lifelong changes. When I tell people the story, they always say, what's your secret, what you do? And I say, there's no secret. Discipline, right? like Focus, routine, willpower. How does discipline play a role in your life? Daily. I mean, it's, it's a practice. Just, it's something you have to do. And then just make it a part, it becomes the natural part of your life. And I know for me, just ah all I've learned from living with PTSD, I have to be disciplined. Hmm. Right. Because I don't want to be where I was all those years ago in that dark spot. Now, I never I never was at that point where I wanted to take my own life. I didn't drink. I didn't do drugs. I was never. But I was I could become very, very depressed and very, very anxious. You know, no sleeping. um Nightmares. I'm very thankful I didn't turn to alternate forms to self-medicate or anything. Mm-hmm. I'm very thankful I never did any of that, but I don't ever want to be there again. So I've had to build up my personal toolbox over the years and you got to dig into it every once in a while. you know, I don't have to do it daily anymore. Sometimes I don't even have to do it monthly anymore, but there are times and I, and that takes discipline. Um, I was also, ah at the during the pandemic-ish timeframe, I was diagnosed with a rare form of diabetes. I got really sick, lost all kinds of weight. I've not been one who's been overly overweight. and so And I'm kind of tall. So I lost 37 pounds. I was skeletal. Wow. And I did. I was like, Oh my gosh, do I have cancer? I'm dying. It was just because none of the doctors could figure out what was wrong with me for about a year. wow it was horrible. Um, And then finally, one of the guys, one of the the ladies, the doctors at the VA said, we got to send this to the endocrinologist, my blood. And I'm like, you guys have taken so much blood from me. It's ridiculous. And they did it and they came, the the guy came back. It was a specialist and he came back. He said, she's got this type of diabetes and you're treating it completely wrong. You're treating it for something else. And so now I'm insulin dependent. I have to take four shots a day. Mm-hmm. have to, i had to completely change my life and how I viewed food, how I thought about food, what I eat, how much I eat, when I eat. So when I go anywhere, i have to make sure I have certain things with me, including my insulin. i have to wear one of these, you know, medical bracelets. Um, so that takes a tremendous amount of discipline as well. Um, because it, you have to do certain things. It's certain, I have to eat at a certain time. Um, because the type of diabetes, I, it's not type one and it's not type two, it's called LADA, L-A-D-A. And it's not common. And so there is no firm, uh, way to treat it. Wow. And for each person is completely different. That's why there's no firm way to treat it because every single person, it's a completely different story. So I have to have a lot of discipline every day, not only for my mental health, but now for my physical health as well. um And, you know, there are times, and I'm sure you've probably felt that way and your listeners that you're like, you just get angry. you know, what the heck is all this? I'm tired of doing this. I'm tired of having to do this. And why do I have this? I've never asked myself why, because why not me? You know, you look at what other people are going through then you think, I think, well, why not me? You know, what what makes me special that I shouldn't have something to, you know, it's just why not me? Um, but I also put in perspective, uh, Like right now have a very dear friend with stage four cancer. um And I'm like, I have nothing to complain about. So if I have diabetes, yeah, I'm doing, I'm, I'm doing everything I can to stay healthy. So put it, you know, I put it perspective, you know, somebody always has it worse, always. And so I'm like, you know why I'm not goingnna feel sorry for myself. That's just a waste of my time and energy. Take that time and energy and go do something for somebody else. Grab your nuggets of hope and go do something. know That's kind of how I look at it. But that all takes discipline. I mean, seriously, it all does. For my writing, I can honestly say that in my writing, that is the least disciplined I am. Really? Because, yeah, i'm ah I get an idea and I sit down and write. I don't have a schedule that I stick to. Like, I'm not going to write for three hours every day at this time. I write when it feels right to me. And I never put a big deadline on myself. Because I've always told myself if it becomes pressure or stressful, then it's not worth doing. hmm Because the only one putting that pressure or stress on myself is me. And why would I do that? you know, for my own mental and physical wellbeing. Why? i think, I think we all do that. Why do we put so much stress on ourselves? See, there's that question again. Why? ah We should wear, we should all have baseball hats to say why question mark and just walk around and then look at everybody and say, why? Yeah, you're right. Why? know golly. And did discipline reshape, excuse me, did the military reshape your view of discipline? Indeed. Yes, it did. Yes. Uh, I honestly believe everybody should be in the military for at least a year. Yeah. I truly do believe that. Yeah. Um, we're pretty much the only country who doesn't, you know, there are many countries who do have that. Many countries have that. Yeah. I think it's like a minimum of two years in Germany or it used to be, you know, I don't know. i just, I always thought that we, that that would be a good idea. Um, Even the K-pop kids, the the biggest band in Korea, every one of those just got out of the military. They all had to serve, even if they're you know pop artists. i just I just saw something on YouTube about that. You're right. seemsing It's incredible. Yeah, millionaires. Yeah. But yeah, they still had to serve. yeah Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, well, just because you have money doesn't make any different than somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. At least that's my viewpoint. Yeah. But it did, because there's a tremendous amount of discipline. Obviously, there has to be in the military. And um going through that, i'm I'm glad I did, even even though... There was a life altering, absolutely horrific thing I went through. Right. I'm still glad that i volunteered and joined the military. I'm glad I did. um You grow up really quickly. And you become something, part of something that is way bigger than you and your little world. Hmm. And that has, at least for me, had a profound effect on me. um, on graduation day from basic training and you're there and there's, you know, thousands of other airmen. And then you see the, the ones who have went decades before you and all, you know, over the years. And you're just like, Oh my gosh, I'm a part of this. And that was to me, i was really proud actually. Um, I was very proud of that because you don't know where you're going. You don't know what you're going to have to do. You don't know what the future holds, but for a moment you realize that you are part of something so much bigger than yourself and you can't be selfish and serve at the same time. Kim, Doesn't work. least for me anyway. Yeah. kim is there something in the last month or so you changed your mind on? I guess in small increments, people in different circumstances have been put in front of me. And it's a reminder that ah the entire world really does not suck. Hmm. You know, um I get in my modes where I so i should shared earlier people. but I'm not doing people today. You know, humanity. Where is it? Um, and I've been reminded cause there was, there was a couple months there. It was just like, i got so sick of humans. Hmm. I'm like, just, I'm just sticking with my dog. that's Give me a cup of coffee and my dog and I'm good to go. Um, but there's been many times in the last couple months that, uh, the goodness of humankind has had a spotlight on it in my slice of the world. Hmm. And I've seen how when one person has a devastating life altering thing happen, that the collective family, and that means friends, family, whatever comes together It does, it, it, it changed. It did change my mindset. It's like, okay, Kim, I just needed a big fat reminder. You know, I think we all do. Yeah. um But yeah, that's, I guess, humanity. i was given the gentle nudge and a reminder that it's not all bad and we all do our part, you know, and open your eyes because there actually is a lot of good out there. there is There really is a lot of good out there and it could be right in your own neighborhood. Yeah. What motivates you? I want to be that person that I needed when I was growing up. Hmm. And so that's what I strive to be. Be that person I needed. Yes. How do you measure that? How do you know when you're that person? By the reaction of someone who receives whatever little thing you're giving, whether it's your time or a meal or a ride to a doctor appointment, whatever, Hmm. hmm the look on their face, knowing that They didn't have anybody else and you stepped up and they thank you because they've just said, i had nobody else and I can't believe you stepped up to do this for me. Thank you so much. hmm That is when I'm like, okay, wow. You know, it's very humbling. um And there's no reason that we shouldn't do that. Step up for each other. So it's partly impact. It's partly, yeah, being there. How do you measure success, Kim, given that motivation? I don't, I don't like to measure Hmm. How do you know when you're successful? by the way my heart feels, you know, do I feel good about what I just did and I don't have an icky feeling in my stomach that, okay, yeah, i did good. Hmm. You know, cause you know, that, that tightening in your gut that you get every once while and you're like, ah, it's like conviction, you know, o should I have done that or should I have said that? Do I need to apologize? you know, that feeling when I'm doing something or helping somebody or creating something and I don't have that feeling, then I know I'm on the right track. Hmm. You know, I go by how my heart feels and how my gut feels and ask myself, is, is this something that's going to be good for this person or good for you in the long run? You know, or, a week from now or a month from now, are you going to look back and go, Oh, why did I do that? Hmm. Hmm. You know? So I don't really measure. i don't really measure stuff like that. I go, I go by, and that might seem wishy-washy to people, but for me, that's, I've always been that way. And I was made that way for a reason. So I see, I see no reason to change it. You know, Kim, the trait of a remarkable person to me is, you know, not only do they help themselves and learn how to help themselves, but when they turn that around and help others, that's that's remarkable to me. And I thank you so much for being that person. And I thank you for your time today. It's been absolutely wonderful talking to you, listening, anybody listening and watching, how can they get in touch with you? They can find me easiest places on my website, which is kimlinglingauthor.com. Kind of one-stop shop. You can also meet my dog Dexter because he's my office manager. And if you do through the contact page, that's him. Oh. That's his face on there. So he, ah yeah, he keeps me on my toes. He's the one, my dog, lets me know when I need to walk, when I need a treat, and when I need to get a drink, and when I need to take a break. Nice to have that accountability. So, yeah. That is right. So yeah, my, my website, my books are all on Amazon um podcast is on YouTube and Spotify and all the listening platforms. So, or you can just Google my name and you're going to find something about me somewhere. You sure are. Kim Legling, L-E-N-G-L-I-N-G, author.com. And like you said, you're on all of the formats. Next time I'm in the greater northwestern section of Pennsylvania, perhaps I'll get a cup of tea. Absolutely. i would love that. Let me know. Just reach out. Thanks so much, Kim. You be well. Thank you. You'd be well too.