Joey Pinz Discipline Conversations

#853 Kimberley Wiggins: 💡Financial Clarity for CEOs: Stop Guessing, Start Leading

• Joey Pinz • Episode 853

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💼 What if the biggest challenge in business isn’t sales or marketing—but understanding your numbers?

In this powerful conversation, Joey Pinz sits down with entrepreneur and accounting expert Kimberley Wiggins to explore why so many business owners avoid their finances and how gaining financial clarity can transform leadership, confidence, and decision-making.

Kimberley shares her fascinating journey from Navy veteran to business advisor, revealing how helping entrepreneurs understand their financial reports can literally help them sleep better at night. The discussion goes far beyond bookkeeping—touching on leadership, emotional relationships with money, and the mindset required to run a healthy company.

🚀 You’ll learn why successful CEOs don’t outsource financial awareness, how weekly financial visibility changes decision-making, and why many business owners unknowingly sabotage their own success.

From roller derby at age 60 to coaching entrepreneurs through financial fear, Kimberley’s story is inspiring, practical, and deeply human.

If you’re an entrepreneur, founder, or business leader trying to make smarter decisions, this episode will help you see your numbers—and your leadership—in a whole new way.

 

🔑 Top 3 Highlights

📊 Why Smart CEOs Must Understand Their Numbers

Financial reports aren’t just paperwork—they are leadership tools.

💡 The Hidden Emotional Side of Money

Avoiding finances often comes from fear, not lack of intelligence.

📈 The One Financial Report Every Business Owner Should Know

Why mastering your Profit & Loss statement changes everything.

 

 

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Hosted by Joey Pinz, this Discipline Conversations Podcast offers insights and inspiration.

 

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SPEAKER_04

Kimberly Wiggins, what an absolute pleasure. I don't know. I'm gonna pull the curtains back for a second. I haven't had the best morning today. And Kimberly just lifted my spirits way up. Just an absolute great conversation. The energy from Kimberly is incredible. Um I start the conversation. She she's helped people, businesses with accounting. Uh, she was gonna go into law. Uh, she was in the military and the navy. She decided to go, she loves helping businesses. And um, I started the conversation with roller derby and age 60. Why get into that? And just so much energy, so much light. But uh, we really get into what why business owners, by small businesses, why they're afraid of the numbers, why they need to have visibility to understand what their numbers are, not be afraid of them. Lots of anecdotes, lots of great insider knowledge there that Kimberly has, but just an absolute delight, you know, and how um she has to be kind of pipe part psychiatrist, part friend, part advisor, part accountant, uh, just brings it all together. But such a wonderful time talking to Kimberly. Thank you so much, Kimberly, and thank you for watching. Hi, I'm Joey Pins. And here's my 45-second introduction. After starting my business in the 90s, I started developing poor habits of eating in my diet because of working way too much. Before you know it, I found myself 340 pounds. The doctor told me if I don't lose the weight, I'm not gonna see my daughter graduate. Took the next seven months, lost 130 pounds. People think there's some secret. Ask me, how'd you lose that weight? Like there's some secret. There is no secret. How'd I lose the weight? Just one word discipline. I've had other successes in life, and I attribute them all to discipline. Now I'm not the king of discipline, but I believe that it can help all of us. Friends, colleagues convinced me to start a podcast. The podcast mission, how do we better ourselves and society? I talked to interesting people in health, fitness, sport, wellness, business, technology, science, art and culture. And I eventually asked them how discipline plays a role in their life. Podcast Vision, growth through learning from others, Kimberly Wiggins. So um, is it true that you somebody or someone has called you the roller derby queen? Oh yes.

SPEAKER_00

How did you hear that story? Yes. Um, yeah, because at 60 years young, I joined the roller derby team.

SPEAKER_04

In this fast-paced MSP landscape, how do you stay ahead? Introducing MSP Influencer.com, your ultimate hub for MSP news, insights, and community connection powered by Forza Dash. More than 75,000 MSP subscribe to our MSP Influencer Pulse weekly newsletter. Staying informed and ahead of industry trends. Tune in to emerging podcasts for Joey Penn and leading MSP voices, offering essential tips, powerful insights, and success stories. Explore multi-authored lives, crafted specifically for MSP leaders, delivering fresh perspectives and actionable strategies. Celebrate excellence with the industry leading Force Dash MSP Influencer Awards, recognizing innovation, leadership, and impact in the MSP community. Join thousands of MSP professionals who trust MSP Influencer.com to grow their business and expand their networks. Mspinfluencer.com, where today's MSP leaders connect, collaborate, and conquer, all powered by the ForzaDotch platform, helping MSP vendors work effectively with MSPs and helping MSPs grow. And why would you do that?

SPEAKER_00

Um I just wanted to do something different. You know, when you get to this place in life and you just want to shake things up, I needed that to challenge me to shake things up.

SPEAKER_04

And I heard you I heard you say that they were almost gonna call you grandma, but you wouldn't accept that. And you you uh bought the pads and you said, Don't you dare call me that, young ladies.

SPEAKER_00

Nope, nope, nope, nope. I was very serious about that. No, no, I got out there and I practiced as hard as they did. Um, they were afraid to hit me because they thought they would hurt me, and I'm like, bring it on.

SPEAKER_04

Wow, wow. Sounds like a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00

Do you still do it now? Yeah, I took a break this season um because I needed to focus so much on business, and it does require quite a bit of time with the practices and the meets and um in the league. So I took a break this season, but I'm looking forward. I'm gonna stay practiced up a little bit. That's great exercise. Yeah, and I'm looking forward to next season.

SPEAKER_04

Good for you.

SPEAKER_00

What did the Navy teach you, Kimberly? Oh, what your podcast is all about discipline, so much discipline. Now, I will say, prior to going to the Navy, my mom had done a really good job because she was a strict disciplinarian and she was very disciplined. But the Navy just extended on that. It opened up my world, it opened up my eyes. I was able to see things in a different light, discipline in a different light. And so that has carried through in everything I do with my family ethics, my work ethics, my business ethics, my even my uh, I call it my relationship ethics. That discipline has carried through.

SPEAKER_04

The military does provide a lot of structure. That there's way they do things, they do things their way, and everybody inside is gonna do things their way, right? So it's very, very structured. Absolutely. Everybody that I talk to in the military always says that. So after the you went into university, you thought you were gonna go, you were gonna be a lawyer, but then you kind of fell in love with an accounting class.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I did. Um, and the rest is history, no lows law school for me. Although I have thought about it a couple times because I have friends that say, Oh, you should have been a lawyer. When I work through their when we're talking through their situation, they're like, Oh, you should have been a lawyer. Um, but right now I'm in love with accounting, and that's where I am. I'm still young, I could still be a lawyer.

SPEAKER_04

That's true, that is very true. And what is it about accounting, Kimberly, that grabbed you?

SPEAKER_00

Um, the fact that there was so it's so detailed, and I saw the impact of being able to take one person's books and provide so much benefit to them in their business that they were able to sleep better at night.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And when you think about that, that changes a person's entire life. Have you ever not slept well for months on end? And now all of a sudden you're not worried about this one thing and you're sleeping better. When I saw that impact, I was like, oh yeah, I like this.

SPEAKER_04

And when you took that class, is part of the attraction that there's always one answer, or there can be multiple answers.

SPEAKER_00

No, it's very finite, it's very logical. Yes, I love it. I love that there is no there's not there's no guesswork in it.

unknown

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, unlike being a lawyer where you have to provide all the yeah, you have to interpret, provide all that evidence, and it's very finite. I get in there, I know what I'm looking at, um, I'm able to calculate those numbers, and there's not another way of calculating. They come out to what they are.

SPEAKER_04

Kimberly, what's the difference between accounting and finance?

SPEAKER_00

Um, big difference there. Um, finance looks at things more of from a holistic view. They're not as much down in the weeds. They they look at things in a way that says, all right, let's look at everything that your finance is doing and affecting in a holistic way. Versus accounting really is just focused on your business books. We just want to look at what the numbers are telling us and what do we need to do to impact those numbers? We're not looking at um retirement down the road or um, are you fully covered for your business? Are you finance takes into account that holistic view of everything that's going on with your business?

SPEAKER_04

And you gravitate more towards accounting. Why? Why not finance?

SPEAKER_00

Um, like I said, I like being in the weeds in those books. I really, really do. Now I have since, since my practice has grown some, I have since now built a team around finance as well.

SPEAKER_02

I see.

SPEAKER_00

So when I get my clients to the place where they're solid and we know that they're ready for the additional finance piece, we incorporate scaling and wealth building into their overall plan.

SPEAKER_04

So, what are some common things you see business owners do, Kimberly, that they struggle with when it comes to accounting?

SPEAKER_00

Um the main thing is understanding what the numbers are telling them. They don't understand the numbers. Because, see, normally what a business does, because they're wearing so many hats, I get it. They want to pass that function off to someone else. But they can they can, but they've gotta be informed, they've gotta be able to verify what's going on in their books. Because accounting in their their finances, their business finances is a part of a three-legged stool. It's marketing, sales, and finance. If any one of those are cut short, the stool is unbalanced. So you've got to be able to take care of all three of those things. I know that sounds difficult. That is one of the most difficult things that business owners have. Trying to balance those three appropriately, but you've got to figure it out and you've got to be able to do it to be successful in business.

SPEAKER_04

Marketing, sales, and finance. How about actually creating their service or product?

SPEAKER_00

That's a part of marketing. That goes right into marketing because you can't market what you don't have. So you have to be able to understand from the service or product creation all the way through to getting it through to ready to go to the consumer. And then after that, the sales piece is all right, I've got all of this ready. I've marketed it now. Let me sell it. And when that money comes in from the sale, you have to be able to figure out all right, am I pricing this right? Am I making enough money to break even for all the time that I'm putting into this? One of the another area where um business owners fail greatly is paying themselves. They want to pay themselves the leftovers. That's not how I teach my clients. I don't want them doing that. Your pay is an essential part. Because what happens if you can't pay yourself is you're gonna stop doing this business. You're gonna say, I may as well get a job because I'm not paying myself anyway. So to alleviate that, to keep your business baby going, you've got to pay yourself.

SPEAKER_04

Why do so many smart business owners avoid the numbers?

SPEAKER_00

I'll tell you this numbers are an emotional thing. It's very emotional, and it depends on where your I'm gonna call it money mindset is, what influenced you around your ideas around money when you were growing up and when you started in business, that all of that carries over for the long term. Um, so some people just avoid it so they don't have to deal with the emotional part of it. I hear women that say, especially women, it's very emotional for women, more so than men, is what I've found. And what women will say is when we're getting ready to have that business meeting, they want to say, Oh, I'm so afraid of what you're gonna say. So my stomach hurts, or they have these anxiety attacks about their money, and so it is a very emotional thing. That's why people avoid it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, because you know, you're kind of you're you're they're very vulnerable, right? You're kind of seeing them naked almost, you know. It's like, you know, it's like, you know, I'm only as good as what I'm making. You know, it's not the best attitude, but some may think that. And then, and if I'm not making enough, am I really, you know, it's uh it can be very, very, very tough and very vulnerable. And it's why do so many businesses start, uh Kimberly? I mean, it's hard. I mean, the numbers are against you. It was like 90% fail in the first year and 85 and five, 85% in five years, but but people still do it all the time.

SPEAKER_00

Because they're passionate about what they do, they're the experts, they've come up with a way where they feel like they really want to make an impact and serve people. And of course, you know, a lot of people are migrating from the corporate stance, they've done this in corporate for years, and now they'd really like to showcase their expertise for themselves, so they get into this. But what they are not ready for is how business disciplines you and shapes you. They're not ready for that, they don't see that coming. Not at all.

SPEAKER_04

They certainly don't. I remember when I started my business and my friends would say to me, Boy, it must be nice not having a boss. I said, I've got more bosses now than I've ever had in my life. Every one of my clients is my boss, my employees to some degree, the vendors, the banks. Please don't go into business thinking you won't have a boss.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. You're 100% right.

SPEAKER_04

But it didn't stop you, did it? No, no, it didn't. It occurs to me, Kimberly, that you're not only an accountant, but you got to be part friend, part psychiatrist, part therapist, right? Because, you know, I think the company looks this way, but actually the company looks this way that you're showing them, you know, and you know, you have to soften the blow. And even when it's doing really well, you know, don't overspend, you know, you have to that's right. It's it's it's at both ends. You got to be really careful in how you frame everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I do. And what I normally do that CEOs relate to really well, is referring everything from a leadership lens. Because this is the you want to show up as a leader in the things that you do in life. Business is no different. You want to show up as the leader in your business. It's one thing to just have that CEO title, but to lead is a totally different thing, and this is a part of that leadership lens.

SPEAKER_04

Kimberly, what's the difference between a leader and a manager?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I like to say that managers will come into a business, they'll look at the situation, and they will manage everything from a day-to-day perspective. But leaders who come into a business or own a business, now you have to look at everything from that 50,000-foot view, not just today. You have to look at what happened in the past that's affecting today, and what's happening today that will affect the future. You have to be hyper-focused, and you can't be afraid to step into some uncomfortable places. You're navigating the whole thing as a leader, you're influencing the people around you, including your management and the employees below them. So, as a as a leader, you have to own that 100%.

SPEAKER_04

I've had some difficult discussions, and maybe you have too, Kimberly, with managers on my team who thought they were leaders and they weren't. And both are very important, if you describe, right? Business needs both of them. Uh but sometimes when they think they're a leader and they're really not leading anybody, it's difficult. So when you're working with a company and the business owner is more managerial and not really a leader, do you kind of treat them differently? Do you do you enlighten them of your opinion? How do you work with them?

SPEAKER_00

What I do what I do tell them, it is a difficult conversation to have. It is a very difficult conversation. But I approach it, of course, from a positive light instead of a negative. And I actually do a little bit of extra research after I've worked with that leader for a while, and I'm figuring out how do we grow their leadership and development skills. So, what I will, one of the things that I do is I do recommend some coaching or a course that they can take that will grow their skills, and I also show them the difference between leading and managing. I I can tell you of a very specific uh example. I had a CEO of a business that whenever an employee made a mistake, he would just rake that employee through the cold. And my response the first time I saw that was, whoa. But then it bugged me for uh weeks before I got the courage to be able to say, I want to go back and talk about an incident that happened a couple weeks ago with one of your employees. I want you to look at that from a different view, put yourself in that employee's shoes and look at your response to what the employee did. It was very negative, don't you think? There are positive ways that you could have handled that. And I reminded them that as a leader, it is their responsibility to grow their employees. And in their in his behavior at that time, there was no way to grow that employee. You want to build positive relationships and grow your employees. That is how the your employees and investment, and that's how you get the most out of your investment. You've got to grow them. That employee wanted to get out the door and get as far away from him after the first month. And I was able to talk her into giving him a second chance, just so that he could have the opportunity to turn that around and grow.

SPEAKER_04

That's wonderful antidote. Because you're in a very unique position, Kimberly, because you're not an employee, right? You're you're outsourced and so and you know the numbers, so I mean, and you don't browbeat people, but say this is what's what happened here. Let's just discuss it. Let's just talk about it. Say, hey, you did the wrong thing there. You know, it's a very, it's very great approach. I heard you say that your your attitude is almost anti-accountant. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00

Um I'm anti-accountant in the sense that yes, you need an accountant to do your business, but your accountant should not be making decisions for you in your business. You should your accountant should not be the first person you go to when you want to buy a piece of equipment or hire a new person or figure out how much contingency you have in your business in case. Something happens and you're unable to carry the business. Your accountant should not be the first person you go to. The only way you should be talking to your accountant about that is unless the only way is if you have done the research in the numbers yourself, and you're just you're teaching it back to them. You're saying, here is what I see in my numbers, and I'm unable to hire someone because of this reason, that reason, this reason. And so now I have to figure out what to do to get my numbers to the point where I can hire someone. And instead of you being the person that's nodding along while the accountant talks, the accountant should be the person that's nodding along saying, Yep, you've got it. That's exactly what's happening in your business.

SPEAKER_04

I also heard you say that you're you're not just here just to do the books. You're much more than that.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Um, I'm here to walk beside my business owners. Yes, I do end up doing some of their books. I end up making corrections and doing some of that in their books, but I walk beside them as they move along from week to week, day to day, and month to month. What I have them do, and you know, I've had coaches tell me over time, well, that's a foolish practice. Call me. It's just as simple. If you have a question, if you don't understand something, my my coach says, Don't you get hundreds of phone calls? Actually, I don't. But they, if they have a burning question or they're trying to understand something and make sense of it, I would rather they call me on the spot. And if I'm available, I'm there. Instead of trying to spin their wheels and try to figure it out. So I really walk alongside of them. I do more than their books. I want to make sure they understand every bit of it. So if they have a question, call me.

SPEAKER_04

Now you've moved from you know being doing accounting, but you're also the owner of your own business.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

So what's it, you know, that transition must have been something, right? Because now you look at it from your perspective as an accountant, and uh, you know, can you have other people learn from that? What has that transition been like for you?

SPEAKER_00

Oh boy. I have spent a lot of money and a lot of time making that transition. And the first year or two, I had to learn a lot of things. I've got the finance leg of that stool down, but I didn't have the marketing and sales. Um, I was fortunate enough to be able to hire coaches to help get me to a certain point, and then hire someone else to get me to the next point. It's been a lot, and I have had to invest a lot of my time. Um, there are days, um, especially in the beginning, that I would start working at nine o'clock in the morning and didn't and not stop until midnight.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Because there are things that I had to put in place. And because of my discipline, I had a philosophy. I said, I will never ask anyone to do something for me that I don't have an idea of how to do it myself first. So, what I would do is before I hired anyone to ever do my social media, I did it myself. So I knew exactly what it took. I knew whether or not I was gonna let them write the copy or I was gonna write the copy myself because who knows my business better than me. So those kinds of tasks, before I hired anyone to help me, I did it all myself. So there were those long hours trying to make sure, just like I require my clients to do, to be intimately involved in my business, not just pass it off to someone else and let them do it. How do you know if they're doing it well if you've never done it yourself?

SPEAKER_04

I get asked. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00

I was just gonna say, um, I think I just did a a post on LinkedIn that trusting you can, it's okay to have someone that you trust in your business, but not without verification.

SPEAKER_04

Trust and verify. I do get asked occasionally, and uh Kimberly, I don't like giving advice, I don't think I'm good enough. But I do say the three things that changed my business around. One is when I joined a peer group, you know. So now I will I will as a business owner, you feel like you're all by yourself. You're on an island, there's nobody you can talk to because you can't talk to employees about business things. You can't, you know, joining a peer group, like-minded, you know, similar position. Number two is that there's these entrepreneurial operating systems, there's many of them. Get one, adopt it. And then third, and you keep bringing this up, is hire a coach. Be humble enough to hire a coach. What do you think about those three pieces?

SPEAKER_00

Those three pieces are actually excellent. I love them. Because for number one, you're right, you can't do this alone. Right, it is a really bad journey trying to figure this out and do this alone. Just being in a peer group will shorten your time because you get to learn from the experiences of everybody else. I did that in the beginning as well. I joined a peer group, it was a low-cost mastermind, but it was invaluable. Yeah, and then there are so many entrepreneurial ways to get started in your marketing and sales. You do want to figure out which works for you and adapt that. Hold the course, stay the line on that one, um, on that one concept. So that yeah, so you're not all over the place. You spend, I see a lot of business owners do that, and they're like, oh, this person said that, and that sounds good. Let me try that. No, you've got to get one system out there, one concept, and keep moving with it. Yeah, for sure. So I think those three things are great. Hire a coach, definitely. When you are when your business is able to afford it, hire a coach. You can go a whole lot deeper with a coach because they are just spending time focused on your business instead of in a group setting. It is so invaluable.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we can't forget, you know, Tiger Woods had a coach, you know, so sort of to think that, you know, the the best at one point, certainly the best golfer, maybe the best athlete in the world at one point needed a coach. You know, we we have to be humble enough to consider that our ourselves. So, what financial report is there one that every business owner should actually understand?

SPEAKER_00

There's actually two, but if you're asking me for one, I would say your profit and loss.

SPEAKER_04

PL, huh?

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Because it tells you a lot, it tells you about the money coming in and the money going out, and that's where the leaks are. Because I had one client who was doing, she had someone doing ads for her, and she couldn't figure out how, as soon as the money got in the bank account, it was almost going out. And so her ad spend was ridiculous. But because she never looked at the reports, she didn't know how much money she was spending on ads. And so once we were able to have a meeting with that person she had doing ads and reel that in, we were able to fix that leak. The profit and loss has a lot of money leaks on it. So that would be the one report I would say.

SPEAKER_04

What if discipline wasn't about punishment, but about unlocking your best self? I spent two and a half years writing discipline for greatness, because discipline changed my life. And I know it can change yours too. This isn't a theory. Inside, you'll find real practical steps you can use immediately to focus better, build stronger habits, reduce stress, accomplish your goals, and bring more balance to your life. Whether you're trying to get healthier, improve your career, or simply feel more control. This book gives you the framework. Start today. Grab your copy of Discipline for Greatness at joeypins.com slash book. Thank you. Yeah, you see what your expenses are, you see what your yeah that that's everything. And then I would assume the next would be the balance sheet.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Because you gotta you gotta look at your financial stability, and that's what the balance sheet helps you focus on. What happens if you're not able to work in your business? So while you are, we need to build a contingency plan that gives you financial reserves in your business so that when you're not able to work, let's, hey, pneumonia is going around. When you get pneumonia, do you know how long you're gonna be out? You don't know. It could be a week, it could be two weeks, three weeks. You're delivering services, you're delivering, unless it's something on autopilot. Guess what? You can't work. So that in that month alone, your income is affected.

SPEAKER_04

And what's the biggest myth, Kimberly, about cash flow and why it causes unnecessary stress?

SPEAKER_00

Um, the biggest myth about cash flow is that people think that cash flow is what they see in their bank account. They think that when they go and look at their bank account on any given day, I've got this much money. And that is so wrong. Interesting. Yes, you have to. That's why the reports are there. It tells you what's coming in, what came in, but it also tells you what's going out, and you should have a really, really good picture of what your expenses are every month. And I I had a guy one time tell me, I keep that in my head. All right, you might be able to do that and do those calculations really fast, but that is not best practice. You're gonna drop the ball at some point. You that's why you need to have a structured system and be disciplined enough to watch your money, which will determine your cash flow weekly, what's coming in and what's going out. And that's what I require my clients to do. We don't wait for month-end reports, we're on it weekly.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

And it see, I think I heard you say that you're an advocate of there's still do-it-yourself financial, you need to understand it. Don't totally outsource everything, correct?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes. Um, there are situations that cause for do-it-yourself. Um, you're not quite, you started a business and you're not making quite enough money to pay a bookkeeper or an accountant right now. Um, you you really are you're trying to understand how your money works, and you want to, I just have some business owners, they want to do it themselves so they can get a better understanding from the ground flow and build a solid foundation. So there are reasons to do it yourself. Um, the biggest one, of course, being you can't afford to pay a bookkeeper, but you can't ignore it. You have to be able to say, Yep, I can't afford it. Let me plug in somewhere where I can learn to do it myself and do it well.

SPEAKER_04

So if a business owner is overwhelmed by their numbers and they're not sure what to do, what's the logical next step in your advice, your opinion?

SPEAKER_00

Um, all right. So if you're looking at your numbers and you've got an accountant, start having a conversation with them. Sit down and tell them, look, I know you've been doing this for a while, you've been working in my numbers, but guess what? We need to have a conversation because I need to understand my numbers. And if your accountant is hesitant to do that, call me. That's the next step if your accountant is as because an accountant should never be hesitant. Some accountants believe it's job security, but I beg to differ. I think job security is when you help the person that you are working with understand their numbers to the level where they're saying there's more for me to learn. I need to hold on tight to this accountant instead of ever letting them go.

SPEAKER_04

How does financial clarity, how does that affect the confidence of a leader or an owner?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, when people are not clear about their finances, they second guess everything they do, every decision they make. Um, and because they're they don't want to be vulnerable, they'll sit in these business meetings with their accountant or uh their bookkeeper, and they're just shaking their heads, like they understand everything when really they don't. They're missing the bolt on a lot of things, so then they leave their feeling less than adequate because they really know they don't know. And so it affects their confidence. They begin to ask themselves, should I be doing this business? Maybe I shouldn't. I'm not I'm I'm not confident enough in my role in this business. Should I actually be doing it at all? So financial clarity does because the data in that, in the numbers in your books, it tells you the health of your business. Yeah, it tells you whether it's healthy or not for you to continue on or not. The marketing and sales piece, the data that you get from that can fluctuate heavily, but that financial piece, the data you get from there is solid.

SPEAKER_04

Do you think financial when when they avoid it, financial avoidance is is more emotional, or is it more mathematical?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's emotional. Yeah, I think they're smart enough by every sense of the word, but they're just afraid of what they'll see there, afraid of what they'll encounter.

SPEAKER_04

Do you think like some great CEOs that you know is the difference between great and not being great is when they really understand their numbers?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, absolutely, I can absolutely say that. Um of the great CEOs that I know, um I have had people to tell me, wow, my business is elevated. Now I know I can forecast out when I need to buy this piece of equipment. And I know exactly how much sales I need to make on this end to buy that equipment in three months. That's CEO thinking, not just I need to buy this equipment, let me finance it, or let me just go out and spend my money and buy it for the company. No, you look to your business and you figure out, you can figure out pricing in your business. Maybe you're not charging enough, maybe that's why. Um, you need to be able to figure that out. And in order to do that, you have to understand the numbers. So great CEOs are thinking that way, they're forward thinking, and the data helps you to do that.

SPEAKER_04

And when CEOs know their numbers and they're comfortable, does it help shift culture in the organization? Do you feel?

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, they are so much more positive and happier in that environment because I just had a CEO a couple weeks ago, he said, I can make money on an autopilot. That's what you've taught me, and so he's just a different person now, yeah, feels so much lighter.

SPEAKER_04

Is there something you believed in firmly 10 years ago that you no longer believe now?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, there is. Um I worked in corporate for many, many years before going out on my own, and the one thing that I believed back then was that the leadership in corporate, they were true leaders. I really believed that because I was a corporate girl, but after spending time there, every you know, when I meet a bad leader, I would say, oh, that's just a one-off.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But as I moved along, I began to see leaders more bad leaders than good ones. And so the one thing that I believed back then is that everyone that had the title of a of a leader was a leader. Interesting. But now, fast forward 10 years, I know that that is just a title. Leadership requires action. And if you're not doing the required action for leadership, you're not leading. You're just fooling yourself.

SPEAKER_04

It kind of gets back to leadership and management. So they they were there a long time, they just kind of get kept getting promoted, and then they get to this position where they're yeah, where they're kind of-and that that brings up another point.

SPEAKER_00

Everybody that's in a management role should not be necessarily put promoted to another higher leadership role, right? Just because they're a manager, then that doesn't mean they're automatically a leader, right?

SPEAKER_04

Big difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Is AI affecting accounting? Yes, it is, but um I beg to say it's affecting it in a positive way, a very positive way. Um, accounting can be a very working through someone's books in accounting can be a very grueling task. Yeah, you gotta love it. AI has introduced ways for us to do that very efficiently and effectively in less than half the time. Wow. So for those people, for those accountants and bookkeepers who are afraid of AI, embrace it, figure out how it's going to help you do your job better. And it does. I have been able to build using AI personal dashboards for my clients to use. And that has been a game changer. Because now they're able to plug in all their information, and we're able to focus on the things they want to focus on without all of the other distractions from just an uncustomized dashboard. We're able to focus on just those things. So I say embrace it. I love AI.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I do as well. I I see myself using it more and more. And um, what I heard something recently. Uh, AI is not going right now, it's the dumbest it's ever gonna be, right? Because it just keeps getting smarter. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. Yes. Good. No, I was just gonna mention the fact that a lot of people shy away from doing their, let's say, social media content or whatever using AI. Um, there are ways to do it without taking everything that AI tells you. You put the input in and you just ask AI to clean it up. That's right. That's all you do. That's right. But it's still coming from you, it's still your words, your thoughts. And as you mentioned, over time, as it's learning who you are, it will make your content so much sharper. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_04

Is there a question, Kimberly, you wish more people asked you?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Um when I meet potential clients, the one question that I wish that they would ask more of is what do I need to know about my books that I don't know I need to know? Because that is a part of the problem. Most people don't know that they need to know more. And so I wish they would ask that question, but that's not usually the question they ask.

SPEAKER_04

That'd be really revealing.

SPEAKER_00

It would be, and I would say that where I'm headed with my clients, it's a lot of uncharted territory. And the reason I say that is because even fractional CFOs are not embracing the opportunity to really walk alongside clients and teach them what they need to know. Because it the way I see it, Joey, is that in doing that, I am impacting their business, and in impacting their business, I am impacting their families, and in impacting their families, I am impacting their legacy. So it it all ties together for me. So that's why it's so important.

SPEAKER_04

I remember Kimberly. I started my my business in '93, and um, we bought a bunch of companies, and uh, I think it was around 99, 2000, and we were gonna we had a picnic, and we were about 50 employees at the time. And I remember being at the picnic and meeting some of my employees' grandchildren, not only children, but grandchildren. So I remember thinking to myself, and I'm getting I'm getting sweating thinking about it now. This little business that I started in my father's garage, that I started in my father's garage, just computer support and and building has is now affecting grandkids. What have I done? What have I done? And I remember going from that picnic, going straight to the office, and you know, and didn't go home and said, I need to work harder. I'm affecting grandkids. What's going on, you know, and uh it's the realization and it's this kind of wake-up moment here, and it's just not me anymore. It's it can be frightening.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, but it's a responsibility. Sure is, and it is a responsibility that calls forth your leadership skills to be able to manage that business correctly for the next generation.

SPEAKER_04

So I started, yeah, I started my business, like I said, back in the in the early 90s, uh really, and I was working way too hard. 14, 16 hour days, like I was just describing, trying to get clients, trying to, you know, so putting exercise in the backseat, you know, poor eating habits. So next thing I know, I'm at the doctor. She tells me I'm at 340 pounds. So I had gained all this terrible amount of weight, and she and I knew I was getting big, but I didn't think I was that big. You know, you're in your 20s. I'm invincible, I feel, you know. Oh, I gained a little weight, I'll be just fine. You know, sure, my I gotta buy bigger clothes, but that's all right. You know, uh, so she says to me, if you don't lose this weight, you're not gonna see your daughter graduate. So my daughter was just born. So scared the life out of me. I can make all these decisions about myself, but it's much bigger than me now. When I tell people this, they say, What did you do? And I you mentioned it before, I say just discipline, right? Just focus, routine, willpower, given your extraordinary background, military, and what you do now. How does discipline play a role in your life, Kimberly?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I'm I'm right there with you where you talked about being at the beginning, working those 12 and 16-hour days. And I'll tell you what really helped me there in the beginning. Something you mentioned earlier, finding a system that works. Once I found that system, and I was able to make the system make enough sense to support my marketing, which supported my sales, then I saw things open up, and I wasn't required to work as much time as before. So that system really helped. Then I began to focus on me and incorporate little things for me a 30-minute walk, 30 minutes on the treadmill, um, changing my eating habits. When you're sitting at a desk for 16 hours a day, 12 hours a day, you tend to grab whatever you can. You're snacking a lot. So I just begin to look at all those things because you are absolutely right. If you don't pay attention to that as well, it will happen. And I understand what you say about being pre-diabetic. Unfortunately, that's a family trait. Yeah, my mom had diabetes and um she passed away from it, and I tell myself all the time that is not the story my mom has for me. My mom had to go through this so I could learn from it. So I am not gonna allow myself to fall into that trap. So, amongst all of the things I get to do in my business, my health is a priority. And you've got to realize that. And I do share that with some clients as well. And we figure out a schedule. I know you're thinking, wow, you're supposed to be doing one thing, but you're over here doing something else. But how can you not? When you're working with people as closely as I do, you've got to be able to help them manage different portions of their life if they need it, and so that discipline, that discipline that was instilled from my mom and from the military, right, is what keeps me grounded to be able to do all those things in my routine. Amazing, and sometimes it's difficult, Joey. You know, um, in the beginning, I exercised one day and didn't exercise again for three more days, and it was difficult. But because you're you begin to make excuses for it, but you have to realize that you're doing that, shaping up your discipline, and say, All right, here's what I'm gonna do. And you can put little things in place. I'll say, I I used to say, All right, once I've gotten my top three things done for the day, I'm going to take a walk. So I tied it to other routines. Right. So I could build a routine to keep it going.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think uh Clary uh Atomic Habits, he calls it coupling. Yeah, you gotta you always brush your teeth, so now start adding flossing to it. You know, you're already doing something, add something on top of it. Um, yeah, and it's fascinating how there's never a wrong answer, right? What discipline plays a role in your life, but those that say that it's a system that they just have to adhere to, uh, it works well. I I do my best to try to remove obstacles as well, right? I mean, I don't have sugary items in the house because I'm going to eat them. You know, it's just some simple things like yes, please don't stop bringing those cookies, neighbor. I I know it's lovely, thank you, but uh just one maybe, but not not, you know. But so um, yeah, it it's it's very it's a very wonderful way of uh of how everybody looks at it so differently. When you um I'm trying to figure this out, Kimberly, with you, you know, art versus science. Do you rely ever on your gut to make a decision? You know, your accounting, your finance, you're very structured, there's a lot of science there, but you also do roller derby, right? You also do these kinds of things that are that are not that way. So when do you incorporate your gut when you're making a decision?

SPEAKER_00

Um the way I do that is I look at the data first. Sorry, I'm data driven. Yeah, I look at the data first, and if the data tells me one thing and my gut tells me something else, I proceed with caution. But most of the time, I'm going with my gut. Wow, and the reason for that, and this might be a little off topic, Joey. It's okay, but I'm spiritual, right? And in the spiritual part of me, I think my gut tells me a lot from a spiritual perspective, and so because of that, I go with my gut. What kind of role does spirituality play in your life, Kimberly? Oh, it's a huge part of my life, yeah. Um just about three years ago, I realized that I can't keep my personal spiritual life from my business spiritual life. Interesting. I'm only one person, it's gotta be intertwined. So I did an entire ceremony where I dedicated my business to God and made God the CEO of my business.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So when I get difficult decisions to make, me and the big guy talk about it, and I go with my gut because I feel like that's where he's giving me those messages. That's how he's funny. Yeah, it's always it's funny. Either my gut will tell me one thing, and then someone will come along and reaffirm it. And then I'll know, oh yeah, I hear I said, I hear you. Yeah. And I have yet to to fail with that.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I have yet to fail with that.

SPEAKER_04

I I do something very similar. It's fascinating. I like the way you phrase that. So, I mean, I'll just use a trivial example. Like I play golf, so I'm 150 yards away. There's a very little wind, I've got an even lie, you know, all the data is telling me eight iron, right? All the data is, but you know what? I'm not getting there with an eight iron. I'm gonna use a seven, but I still used all of that data first, and then I asked the kind of the gut to do that. Now, sometimes the gut speaks up a little too early, and I say, hold on, yeah, let me get some data first, and I'll come back to you. Yeah, I think that's similar to your system.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because you're right. Sometimes the gut just goes for the gut. So I was like, hold up, let me look at some numbers first.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, let me get the data first. Yeah, it's fascinating, fascinating, and that and that really permeates everything. I mean, even simpler things like what to buy off the shelf at a grocery store sometimes to look at the ingredients. I mean, from very small things to, I don't know, a mortgage or something very large, you know, large. It's very, it's not that different.

SPEAKER_00

It's not that different. I was trying to separate it and keep it different, right? But I realized it's all the same thing. Yeah. Because in my personal life, I don't make those decisions alone, you know. Um, I I let my spirituality help me to make those decisions. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Do you meditate or journal, Kimberly?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, both. Wow, yes. Every morning I start with my uh meditation. Sometimes I'm led to write things down in a journal. And then every night before I go to bed, I journal. I talk about it's a recap of my day, and I'll tell you why that has been so profound for me. Um, because most people take their day in the bed with them and lay there for an hour thinking about things they should have done, could have done, or done differently. I just dump it all out in a journal before I go to bed, and I'm able to go to bed and sleep sound. Yeah, I just dump it all out. Whatever comes up for me, if it's something that has to do with business or my personal life or with my spirituality, I journal it all before I go to bed, and then I'm empty. I can sleep sound.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

What motivates you, Kimberly? Family. It really does. Family. Um, and you know, as you get older, you see family in a different light, and you start to think about your legacy. What are you leaving so that your family remembers what you stood for and who you are? It's not about all the things, it's not about the money, it's not about all the things, it's about taking your principles and values and being able to transcend that into your family in a way where they will be able to remember you for those things. I have nieces and nephews and grandnieces and nephews right now. That when we have a get together, they'll say, and we're trying to decide something, they want to hear what I have to say. Well, they always everybody's arguing, everybody's talking about it, I'm silent, I'm just listening, and they will always say, Hey, hey, wait a minute. We have not heard, they call me mommy Kim. Everybody in my family does. So they said, We haven't heard from mommy Kim. Tell me what you think about that situation. They always do, and they always they tell me, we feel like if we need to be grounded and logical, that you're that person in the family that holds that together for the entire family. So I'm proud about that because that's a part of my legacy that will transcend into the family. I want to hear them say for hundreds of years to come, you know, what would mommy Kim do in this instance? What would she say? So legacy and family is very important to me.

SPEAKER_04

So then I would also assume with your clients, impact as well would be uh would be something that motivates you as well, helping those businesses. So legacy, family, impact. So given those motivators, how do you measure success?

SPEAKER_00

One one business or one person at a time. That's all it takes for me to be fueled to know that I have been successful. When I, whether it's giving my family members advice or working with my business colleagues, my clients, I always try to leave them in a better place than I found them. Um and it's not always giving advice, it's not always trying to solve every problem. Sometimes I just sit with them and hold their hand or hold space for them to talk. And all of those things feel successful to me. Yeah, because I feel like I have made an impact in someone's life for that point in time. So it's success for me is not driven long term, it's day by day, one person at a time.

SPEAKER_04

That's wonderful. Is there something in the last month or so you changed your mind on?

SPEAKER_00

Trying to think anything in the last month or so. Um not really in the last month or so, no. I would say it might have been closer to maybe a year ago. Um that no matter the um the person or what they do, everybody deserves a second chance. The corporate part of me had me so wrapped up into policy. Yeah, policy, exactly. Yes, and it took me a long that was so ingrained in me that sometimes I wouldn't give second chances. Right. But terrible over this last year, I've learned that that every every everybody deserves a second chance, and sometimes a third or fourth, but it's but I will tell you what in that second chance, it is an opportunity for us to teach, develop, and grow that person.

SPEAKER_04

Wow, want to show your love for discipline, inspiration, and the Joey Pins podcast? Now's your chance. Introducing the brand new Joey Pins merch store, where style meets discipline. Choose from premium apparel, cozy hoodies, stylish hats, durable bags, and your new favorite coffee mug, all featuring the iconic Joey Pins. Perfect for podcast fans, discipline enthusiasts, or as unique gifts for friends and family. Every purchase supports the Joey Pins Discipline Conversations Podcast, helping us continue to inspire greatness and promote positive change. Visit JoeyPins.com slash store today and wear your discipline proudly. Joey Pins Merch. Wear it, share it, and live it. It sure is. What an absolute honor speaking to you, Kimberly. I love your energy. I love how you're helping people. I love how you find happiness and fulfillment in helping others like that. That's a trait of a remarkable person. The next time I'm in your area there of South Carolina, perhaps we'll get together and have a cup of tea.

SPEAKER_00

I would love it.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00

Have you ever been to South Carolina?

SPEAKER_04

I love South Carolina. I've been to on the coast there, um, the Kiwa Island, and of course, Charleston. Uh, but you're a little more inland. I've been to Greensboro as well. I'm sorry, Green, Greensville.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm a little more inland, but that's okay. Um, we, as you know, we are very hospitable.

SPEAKER_04

Very low country.

SPEAKER_00

Low country. So I'll be happy to come out and have tea with you.

SPEAKER_04

So wonderful. Anybody watching or listening, if they want to get in touch with you, what's the best way?

SPEAKER_00

At uh profitablepenny.com. That's my website. That is also my Facebook and my Instagram, and my LinkedIn is Kimberly Wiggins, K-I-M-B-E-R-L-E-Y Wiggins.

SPEAKER_04

We'll make sure to put it on up on with all the notes. Thank you so much for your time today. Please have a wonderful day.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Joey. Bye.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you for listening andor viewing Joey Pins Discipline Conversations. Please share this episode with one or two of your friends who you think may benefit from the episode. Our website, www.joeepins.com. There you find lots of resources, and you could join our mailing list. Please follow us on all our social media, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Podcast information, the video version of our podcast is on YouTube. Please subscribe. Audio is on all major podcasting platforms. Please follow them. And if you like it, please consider giving five star rating. Would really appreciate that. Thank you again for listening or watching Joey Pinn's Discipline Conversations.