#855 Cameron Tousley: From Fatherhood to Cybersecurity: Lessons That Scale 🔐👨‍👦

What happens when cybersecurity meets fatherhood, leadership, and real-life decision making? 🤔
In this powerful conversation, Joey Pinz sits down with a seasoned cybersecurity expert to explore how personal growth, parenting, and technology intersect in today’s fast-changing world 🌍. Recorded at RSA 2026, this episode dives deep into how leaders can stay ahead of evolving threats while staying grounded in what matters most—family, health, and long-term impact.
From managing cybersecurity risks and understanding AI’s dual role ⚠️🤖 to building a thriving MSP business, this conversation delivers real-world insights you can apply immediately. It’s not just about tech—it’s about mindset, balance, and making smarter decisions in business and life.
💡 Whether you’re an MSP, business owner, or simply someone looking to grow, this episode will challenge how you think about security, success, and priorities.

🔥 Top 3 Highlights
• 🔐 Why owning your threat intelligence is the ultimate competitive advantage 
• 👨‍👦 How fatherhood reshapes priorities, leadership, and long-term thinking 
• 🤖 The truth about AI in cybersecurity—helper AND threat

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Discipline. How does it play a role in your life? How does it drive your decisions? Do you have too much or too little? Every profession, hobby, or passion requires a level of discipline. I have used it in weight loss (+130 lbs.), family death, and found a +25 year business. Am I an expert? Absolutely not! Please join me, as I speak to interesting people and find out how discipline affects their career, life, goals, and decisions. Join me as I talk to interesting people in: #Health, #Fitness & #Wellness: #Business, #Technology & #Science: #Art & #Culture: Website: joeypinz.com All social media @TheJoeyPinz Do you wish to Sponsor? Get the prospectus here: www.joeypinz.com/sponsor 





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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Cameron Houseley. I've had a good fortune of knowing Cameron for more than 10 years now. Uh I knew him before he was a father, he's his father now, father. Um fascinating. I work for a company, he set out. I knew he was much into uh motorballs. We talk about it here and some of his uh other passions. Great conversations, always well balanced, does a really good job of prioritizing family and loves tech all at the same time. Uh really great, really great conversation. I've been asking them on years. Uh we did record this at RSA San Francisco, a big cybersecurity event. It's been one of their podcast booths. Uh I wasn't allowed to bring any audio video in, so uh had to use all the union there. But it was a great conversation, just in a kind of an odd environment of couches. Um wasn't awkward though. We had a great conversation as uh as I'd love to have. Thank you for watching and listening. I'm Joey Pitts, and here's my 45 second introduction. After starting my business in the 90s, I started developing poor habits of eating in my diet because of working way too much. Before you know, I found myself 340 pounds. The doctor told me if I don't lose the weight, I'm not gonna see my daughter graduate. Took the next seven months, lost 130 pounds. People think there's some secret. How'd you lose that weight? Like there's some secret. There is no secret. How do I lose the weight? Just one word, discipline. I've had other successes in life, and I attribute them all to discipline. Now I'm not the king of discipline, but I believe that it can help all of us. Friends, colleagues convinced me to start a podcast. Podcast mission? How do we better ourselves and society? I talked to interesting people in health, fitness, sport, wellness, business, technology, science, art and culture. And I eventually asked them how discipline plays a role in their life. Podcast vision, growth through learning from others. I knew you liked bikes, but I didn't. What's Supercross?

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Uh so supercross, uh stadium dirt bike racing, you know. So stadium, it's indoor? It's indoor, yeah, it's indoor. Um, you know, it's been going since the 70s, and you know, I've been into dirt bikes since like what, I don't know, early 90s. So I feel like I kind of like entered into the pinnacle of like, you know, the I don't know, I don't know, like a cool time in Supercross. So not mechanized. Bikes. It's it's you know, it's uh four-stroke, you know. They used to be the old two-stroke, I see, I see. Then four, everybody's trying to like maybe do the e-bike thing. Right. It's a little wimpy because then you gotta add like audio to it, and we just can't do that. That's not a supercross kind of thing. Yeah, we gotta keep it legit there.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

And and how long have you been doing that? I thought you were a dirt bike rider. I didn't know what you were doing actually.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Since I, you know, probably about what, I don't know, 25 years or so. And I I raced a little bit as a kid, and it was just a fun activity. I I grew up in Riverside, California, and it was a big like orange grove town, and uh, you know, lots of hills and uninhabited space, so it wasn't all like you know, homes yet, and so that was the thing that we do. You know, you you grow up, you ride dirt bikes, and you're into you know, you want to go to the stadiums and check out all the pros. So and we had a couple local ones because you know, Riverside and uh uh that area was kind of a big big area for that sort of thing. Would I know any of the pros? Jeremy McGrath, the king of Supercross, uh Jeff Emig, Ricky Carmichael, Bubba Stewart, now we're going to Florida, those guys are out there. And what's the difference? Well, you know, there's yeah, there's there's Supercross and Motocross, they're still dirt bikes, but one's indoor in the stadiums, it's a little cleaner, a little bit more technical, tighter tracks, and then one's outdoors and it's just all out, faster, jumps are bigger. Um honestly to to attend, they're totally different events. I'd say the Supercross one, more family-oriented. The motocross is equally, but you know, you're outdoors in the dust for about twice the time all day. But it's uh it's fun. I recommend it for anybody. So you're still doing it now? Uh you know, I I had to hang up the boots. Uh I may get back into it, but I had a couple kiddos. Uh I have a four-year-old and a two and a half, and beyond that, we did a house renovation before that, so I found every excuse not to ride, and the bike just sort of sat there and collected dust. So I always say I'm gonna buy another one. I might get the guys into it, my my my boys. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

How has fatherhood changed you, Cam?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Oh man, well, I don't have as much energy anymore. Um but no, I think they drain, you would think it creates more energy. Well, I have a let me repeat this. Okay. I have a four-year-old and a two and a half year old, about 17 months, boys. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and those guys uh they're the best thing ever, but they tend to figure out how to run your ragged. So, you know, me and the wife are uh just trying to keep up. Like we're in that phase of our life, but uh we love it. You know, we just our uh oldest one just turned four, so I don't know. It's either less energy or same energy but more exhaustion. Either way, it's uh it's fun, but you know, it's tiring. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

I remember when she was pregnant with your first and you were just you're gonna just about to be a father in the anticipation. What's the biggest surprise?

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Uh lack of control. I I think you think that you're gonna be able to, you know, it's the classic like you judge other parents. Like I'm gonna do that. They're terrible. My kid's gonna be able to go to a restaurant, no problem. Oh, we're not gonna be on phones, and you know, it's like you fall into some of those traps because they run every which way and they do things their way, and that's just how it is for a little while. But you know, they're they're good little boys. It's just like, man, they want to do what they want to do, and it's tiring, right? It's uh but it's good. You know, um I love being a dad, and uh I know my wife and I were just we're so proud of them, and it's it's amazing. I mean, yeah, we did a little four-year-old birthday, and it's just fun seeing now because they're connecting with uh other little kids and they're having fun together, they're trying to, you know, they're like holding hands, and you know, Coda's my oldest one, Jet's my youngest, and great names. Yeah, thanks. It's you know, it's just fun. It's like, hey Jet, let's do this, and okay, Coda. So it's really cute to watch. How has fatherhood changed you professionally? I'd say professionally, um, you know, I I don't know, it gives me like better awareness, especially like I look at cybersecurity as um a big growing entity for all. I mean, you know, the whole idea is like we want to use technology, we want to be safe with it, and then we kind of look at the younger generations like, okay, we want to make sure you grow up with a good, like we instill you with a responsibility in what you're using and you you use it safely and you watch out for bad things that could happen and you do it just you're smart about it, right? I think like generationally, um I'm really actually proud of some of like the older generation because they still want to use technology, which we have to, they didn't grow up with some of it, so it's more of a challenge to learn, but like the younger generation, and this is even younger than me, it's like okay, I was kind of in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Like I was around when we didn't have internet, around now that we have internet, and um, you know, that that presents a lot of um opportunity and risk for bad actors, and it's just like you want to keep your kids safe, you want to keep everybody safe, and I think the kids growing up, um, I think that it's good for them to kind of learn the ropes and use technology responsibly and professionally for me, to kind of loop back. It's like, you know, how can I contribute too?

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

The older you get, you kind of want to give back, and it's like, can I go do a talk somewhere? Can I make sure people are safe? And when I hear a conversation out in a social circle, like maybe I'll give my two cents, you know, because this is what I do.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

So it's very cool.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Just maybe more awareness, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

You know, from an outside perspective, you seem the same. Like we're I knew you before the kids, now during the kids, and I mean you haven't gained weight, you still got that great smile, you got a great attitude, it's it's nice, nice transition.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah. Well, you know, I uh, you know, limit the bad stuff and try and wear sunblock and stay out of the sun. You know, I'm not in my 20s anymore. I'm in San Diego, it's really hard. You know, we get probably a little too much sun for me, but um no, you know, it's just I think it's like I want to be around for my kids in the long run. I want to have a successful career, you know, uh into an old age, and I think the only way you do stuff like that is really like kind of, you know, the whole self-care thing and stay relatively healthy, and I like having fun, but you know, just want to last, that's all.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

You know? Pitchers and catchers have showed up. Padres ends up what place in the West this year?

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Oh, that's hard, man. Um, you know, they're kind of a wild card every year. Um we're in San Diego, so we hope for the best, and we've been getting close to greatness, but but you know, it's just like the damn Dodgers. They yeah, they have to hammer down. It's like they can beat the tough teams and then they choke on some of the smaller, you know, the ones that shouldn't be a challenge. So, but hey, you know, I'm a Padres fan if they lose, if they win. Um I will say I love the Angels. I grew up with them, but it it's a little tough on that one. So, you know, I moved to San Diego um, I don't know, quite a while ago, 25 years ago, and so I'm I'm firmly a Padres fan.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. And are you bitter about the Chargers leaving?

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Nah, see ya. Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll have something else that comes along.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 9:03

No, you know, it's like it wasn't the team's fault, right? It was like an ownership thing. Um I I kind of miss having a football team, but honestly, they weren't that great when they're in San Diego, and you know, you couldn't really watch the games on TV. It was always a blackout, and you kind of had to go to the games if you wanted to watch them. So, you know, um I'm okay with it, you know. It's like it's fine. There's a major league soccer team there. Uh there is, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

San Diego Football. Are they well attended? Or do you know anybody?

SPEAKER_02 9:29

I've been to like one game, it was really fun, and actually we have a new sponsorship, you know, with uh uh San Diego State actually, but it's at their stadium, um which is extremely cool. Like I think it's their first cybersecurity partnership.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah, yeah. So we sponsor the men's uh uh basketball and uh and football. So football being played at that stadium and the basketball on site at the school. But it takes me to the stadium here and there and uh beautiful place. Seeing a super cross there. I haven't seen too much soccer, but I'm I'm hoping it goes soon.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

So we're here, Cam at the RSA 2026. It's end of March. 44,000 attendees are projected to be here. Yeah. What are some of your goals this week?

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Well, I think it's um, you know, it's always come out and make sure the people know what you do and you know how you're different and those sorts of things, but it's education. Like, we'll get a lot of attendees by our booth, a lot of people wondering like, what do you guys do? Or I've heard of you, and can you maybe elaborate like what's new in the market? Uh, what should I be looking out for, and how can you help my team keep, you know, keep ourselves safe, or if they're resellers and service providers, how do I keep my customers safe? So, you know, for us, um, we're always making improvements and enhancements on our ESEP Protect uh cybersecurity platform. Um, but you know, it's it's really about um giving the story of like who we really are at the top, which is a global security and threat research company.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

So, you know the originals.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Yeah, we really are. I mean, we're over 30 years old, um, and you know, we've been going for quite a while. Uh some people take that as like, oh, you know, I want to hear what's bright and shiny, what's new. So we have to remind them, you know, longevity in this industry is key. Yes. Because there is a lot of newer vendors who nothing against them, but you're new. Like we've been doing this a while. Uh we have you know experts at every level, we have threat researchers, those researchers work with our product teams to make sure the basic tools and more advanced tools that we create have amazing efficacy, they're easy to use, um, all the things that you want in a security solution, and you know, that are top-notch. Um, you want to work with a company that cultivates its own security research because that's the information going into your product to protect against zero days. So, you know, you can be zero trust all you want, not trust anything, right? But you know, you have to have a protective layer on there that it you know you have good information coming in. Because it's the old adage, good data in, good data out, uh, good data in, good defense out in this case.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yep. Cybersecurity is a huge landscape, yeah. It is. So what does how does ESET help businesses?

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, so we help them in a multitude of different ways. I'd say at the core, um, you know, we we advise, right? So our consulting arm, um, our threat researchers, you know, we give out free information, we have a paid service. So weLivesecurity.com, uh, you can get a bunch of great free information. WeLivesecurity.com. WeLivesecurity.com. And so, you know, you go to that site, you're gonna have information for the beginner all the way up to the advanced SOC. And um, you know, the kind of stuff you'll get on there is the kind of attacks going on globally, um, the threat acting groups. Um, we have something now in a paid service that we sell called ESET Threat Intelligence, and what we're basically doing is it's called eCrime Reports, and that's one of the things we're actually announcing at this show and and launching. And so what it is is it's an enhancement slash addition to this uh threat intelligence service, and what it'll do is it actually, instead of just looking at the major malware creation group and service group, basically the ransomware is a service that's coming from a big group, right? But then they're selling that on the market to people utilizing tools, but then the key part is they're behaving in ways that don't necessarily represent the organization that creates the malware. So if you think about it, it's a service organization for bad stuff going on, and then they're selling down to a user level who are your threat actors. And so as their behavior and their patterns change the way they use the tools to create zero-day malware, that's important to track, and these e-crime reports look at the affiliate level of those bigger organizations. So I'd say that's a huge takeaway. That's pretty cool. Yeah, and especially if you're in an uh, you know, maybe a SMB up to an enterprise. You know, enterprises are big, they have lots of business units, there's lots of vectors. If you are a service provider, you may have four or five different verticals that you chase. So, I mean, these things become very important because attackers are going to attack different verticals in different ways. So, yeah, we have basically our threat reports, we have a uh feeds offering as well. So you can plug in the feeds to your tools. The reports are full-scale reports that not only give you what's going on in the market from a malware perspective, but also a recommended checklist of items that you can go down and say, okay, I need to harden this area of my environment, that one, that one. And so it actually gives you tips and tricks to go and like make sure that you have a good defense after.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Have you been in a in a SOC in a security operation center when an attack happens? Have you ever seen what that's like?

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Um, so I mean, you know, I've never worked in a SOC myself. Um, you know, we work along with customers who have them, so I guess I've been in them.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

What is that like?

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Is it tense? I've never been in one.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

You know, it's it's it's tense if you're having a breach. Right. So, you know, a lot of times what we do is we'll come into maybe a prospective client, for me, service provider, that's really what I deal with.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Um, and then we'll just ask them an interview and like, you know, how are things going? Obviously, we're having a conversation because you, your team has pain, so let's explain that and let's interview them and talk about what that looks like. And so, you know, like you get the stories from them, and you know, it's one thing for the CEO to bring in and say, hey, you know, well, I want to meet with you, we want to talk about your solution, but then for us, it's important to ask all those key questions and then hear from the people who are going to be managing the solution potentially. So those are the ones that give you those uh, you know, all the dirty secrets and like, hey, this happened, it was super painful for us. Wow. As a team, we're looking around. Um, we want to talk to you guys because you have a lot of good things to say. We've been looking at you and you have a good tool set. So between the intelligence uh married with the tool set, we feel like it's a good value, and you know, can you protect us against these kinds of things? And so, yes, that's the idea.

unknown 16:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Is AI helping or hurting?

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Well, I'd say it's a little bit of both. It really depends on like the perception, the story you want to spin. But look, you know, I think that um AI has been such a buzzy thing to talk about for so long, but now uh there's really good tools, like agentic AI, AI that's actually doing things on its own and learning intelligently and helping with processes. But it's just like everything else in the world, for every helper, there's somebody who's gonna hurt. So, you know, you really um you need to make sure that your tools can kind of stand up to the stuff that's out there that is AI-based malware. So it's funny you should say that. So we have a new uh enhancement to our solution called AI Skills Checker. So that's another thing that we're, you know, we're launching at this conference. And essentially what it's doing is if I'm a user and I'm working with an AI agent, it's working in different skill sets, right? It's picking up like LLMs and extensions and plugins that it's using to perform functions. So at the user level, if I'm gonna use that and it's got some sort of malicious tool, extension, plugin, whatever, I may not know that, and so how do I scan against it? Well, ESAT, you know, we can use our AI skill checker to evaluate if there's something that you can't see as a user before you start trusting it to work in your environment. So it's sort of that pre-check layer before you start using the cool shiny thing to help you automate. And really what it does is it helps like service providers do a spot check and an audit before they onboard client functionality based on AI, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

It is amazing how every angle, everything is being affected by it, you know. And so I you meant you mentioned service providers. I'm a former minor service provider, former MSP, so I I tend to look at these things through that lens. So how does ESET help MSPs?

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Sure, I mean, you know, we help them at the product layer. Um I'd say again, the intelligence layer, right? You know, we produce feeds that they can hook into their firewalls and their tools. Sure, sure. So I'll back up. So ESET comprised of a global SOC, but a global threat research team. Okay, so we have researchers working around the clock to track the larger groups, the affiliates, basically all kinds of behavior in the market that's going on that contributes to ransomware attacks and botnets and info stealers and any kind of malicious type of attack out there, we are trying to get ahead of. And so if you translate that to the MSP, they are trying to make their clients uh productive, but also they need to secure that as well. So for them, they're kind of that middle piece that's so important because they're gonna introduce tools based on what their clients need. They also have a responsibility to protect those tools for the client so that there's no, you know, no breach, no downtime, and you know, they rely on us at the intelligence level to learn. So the Wheel of Security, maybe the paid service through our feeds or our malware reports that come out periodically. Um, and then you know, like feeding that into the tool level. So we have everything from uh you know uh XDR to endpoint security, 2FA, encryption. We have um you know cloud security as well. We have a new cloud workload protection offering actually that's going to be launching as well. So that's VDI, you know, like virtual environments in all the major platforms, AWS, GCP, Microsoft Azure. So we're basically trying to bring the intelligence down to the ones that can consume it. If you can't, and that's you know, the threat intelligence is not something that you have a big platform to use, we can at least provide you with the tools to secure all the technology you've installed in your client environments. So that way, you know, you keep them productive, you keep them making money and profitable, and then you stay profitable in the same wing.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

When an MSP is choosing, is selecting a cybersecurity partner, what question should they be asking?

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah, you know, I think um where do you get your security data? Like, where do you get your intelligence? Do you buy it? Do you cultivate it yourself? I think that's one of the number one overlooked questions where you know people ask me, why are you guys better? I'm like, it's really simple. Efficacy. You know, you can have a great looking UI, you can have a cool platform, it can do fun things and be your favorite color, but is it gonna actually work for you when the time comes? What happens if there is uh a breach? You know, sometimes having the product layers are not enough because you have to use everything. So what if you're not securing certain devices? I think when you come to the product vendor, you're getting the intelligence, you're getting the consultative approach. We come in and we say, hey, you want to harden the environments, right? We're a security company. Here's the following eight tools you can do it with. You need to go institute these, and here's how it's gonna help you out. So as long as they listen to vendors like that and they're asking those key questions, where do you get your intel? You know, what makes you guys different? Like, I could speak all day about that, but really it's the efficacy.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

That's a really good point. Yeah. The three things that keep MSPs up at night have been pretty consistent last five or six years, Cam. I get that I'm fortunate I get to speak to them all the time. Number one is cybersecurity. If their clients get attacked, they've got to allocate resources, their flat rates, so now they're gonna lose money, they're probably gonna be fired, might even get sued. Number two is human capital. How am I gonna keep my engineers happy? How am I gonna get new new engineers if I need them? And number three is just growth. PE has poured in hundreds of millions of dollars, their friends are selling their MSPs, getting nice cars. How am I gonna grow?

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yeah, well I think I think the number one thing that they shouldn't be afraid of is having security-based conversations with customers. Look, the world is changing. It's like buying a house and saying, oh, you know, I used to just have a door lock and everybody is buying a security system. It's not so different than cyber, right? So they're putting up cameras everywhere, they're paying a subscription possibly to have it monitored 24-7. If somebody breaks a window, you know, an agency is already on it, the police department's on it because it's hooked up. So if you think about it, there's a sock going on at the physical level, it's the same kind of thing. It's just not cybersecurity. And I don't think, you know, homeowners are seeking that out themselves. So why wouldn't a business ask those questions too? They do. I think that that's a false statement. I think that the MSPs need to go and just have an honest conversation with them and say, look, it I'm gonna act in your best interest. I understand that you have a budget, I get it, I do too, right? I'm not gonna institute software you don't need, but we need to secure, you know, the productive tools that you guys use. If we don't, here's what could happen. And they need to be a no, they they can't be afraid to fire themselves, uh fire themselves as a as a service provider, right? So say, hey look, you know, I don't think I'm your best bet for a service provider. If you want to go the cheap route and you don't want to install security and you have a breach, I will be liable and I don't want to. So look, I'm trying to help you out, but if this is not gonna work, let's cut ties. Maybe I can introduce you to somebody else, or you go your own way. It frees up a spot for a client who does want the security that respects that, and that's just the way the world has been going for a long, long time. So I'd say, you know, everybody needs security. Like we're not selling air, we're selling something you need because it's a problem that's actually occurring. So yeah. And then I'd say, you know, human capital, um, augment, you know. Like we're a vendor, we have our own SOC, we have an incident response service, it's 24 by 7 end-to-end, 365 days a year. I'm sure your employees like being able to go home and sleep. I'm sure they like the holidays, they like all that kind of stuff. And you being a business owner, probably a small business owner, even if you have a big MSP, you probably don't want to have your own sock. You you probably want to augment with us. Or if you do, you can still augment. Right. Um, I think the price point is more than reasonable. I think it fits a lot of budgets, and then it, you know, it reduces a lot of stress and it gives you uptime where you can't staff for it.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

And growth. Just by those two first things, uh growth organically is gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Yep, yep, I think so. So, you know, there's always more businesses out there, people are launching them all the time, and good ideas take off, right? More businesses grow. So there's always customers, always a C out there, you just gotta be smart about where you're fishing. If you are great at healthcare, then stick to healthcare, right? Or pick maybe two or three verticals within your couple zip codes you want to travel to or be at, and you know, extend yourself into new verticals that maybe you're not into today. That gives you the ability to go sell to more folks and you know, especially growing businesses, they're out there, right? And a lot of people, if you ask them, are you happy with how your business is being run or secured, you're always gonna get hand raises where they say no and I'm shopping. It's just like anything else. So you always have a window to grow. I think it's just more of an effort level. And are you going in a direction that you're good at? So I think honestly, having conversations with your vendor, we have marketing as a service where we'll jump in and ask the kind of key questions. Nice. Yeah, sometimes we have conversations and we're like, you know, what verticals do you chase? And they're like, I kind of do this or I kinda do that. Why do you do that? Why? So we get really inquisitive, and then I think it makes them think about, well, why do I do that? You know, maybe I think I know, but um, you know, then they find out that they have more questions about their own verticals they chase, and it gets them more curious, and then we ask them about how you doing your marketing? Is it just email-based? Do you attend events? Do you, you know, do you have like um, I guess, you know, different ways that you distribute your brand out to prospects? So we have a platform that they can use called the ESEP Marketing Center. We help a lot of MSPs advertise, um, target marketing, you know, they can share stories and things that we do and they can white label it. So in terms of growth, there's also the planning conversations where we can arm you with a salesperson, a marketing person, and they can kind of help you out. So, you know, when they grow, we grow. So we're on the back end of that. It's in our best interest to help you get to that point where you can grow organically. Or if you're gonna do it via MA, that's fine, you probably have it all figured out at that point. But, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Growth through acquisition organically. How long have you been in any set?

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Uh I'm working on year 19 now, so a couple.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

And that's rare in this industry.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

So for an MSP, they're gonna be working with you.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Uh yeah, possibly. I mean, we have like great team members, so you know, at least from the get, um, you know, I work with a lot of prospective MSPs. Um, you'll probably see me out at events presenting, telling the ESET story, the why kind of thing. But um, yeah, you know, it's either you start with me or you know, I introduce you to a qualified group of people who work with MSPs. They understand that they use tools, individual tools where ESET needs to be integrated in. They understand the format is usually a monthly build, it's service contract, it takes a long time to get a client, it takes a long time to onboard a client, so we get those sorts of things. And really what we're trying to do is help you secure the main hub so you can go and secure your clients and be profitable in the in the process.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Cam, is there a question you wish more people asked you?

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Um, what's my favorite color? You know? What is it? No. Uh it's uh probably, if you ask my kid, it's probably cyan, as he says it. Yeah. No, I like the teal, not just because it's E-Set. Um, no, I'd say um uh, you know, that's a hard one. I I think that I guess how can you help us grow? I I don't hear a lot of, I don't hear enough of it, you know, and I think that a lot of people might feel a little like, you know, insecure asking those kinds of questions, which I get it, you know, you want people to think you have it all figured out, but the reality is, you know, we have a lot of service providers we work with, they could take some advice, really. And they're doing fantastic work, but it's you could always use an outside perspective. And I think that you know, the ones who ask the questions to us, how can you help me grow? What can you help me do? Um, you know, they get a good response that they're happy with, which is usually some of the stuff I talked about. And then, you know, it's just you know, when they say like what makes you guys different, really listening and keying in on the fact that we cultivate our own information and we have people working around the clock, and it's just not the case for all companies out there. So, so no, we're not created equal. You know, ones that have been doing it a long time, especially like us, you know, two-thirds of our company is RD. It's not sales and marketing. Amazing. Yeah, so we really are trying to pour ourselves back.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

75% of your company is RD. Yeah. Yep. Sorry, I didn't even interrupt. Yeah. It's noteworthy. It's noteworthy, yeah. Because there's there's some vendors here that are 80% sales. That are 35% go to market.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Hey, you know, it's a really cool logo. I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's certainly is there something you believed in firmly 10 years ago? 10 years ago. Four kids, about 10 years ago, that you don't believe now.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Oof, that's hard. Um time that I would have as much time as I needed to do whatever I wanted. So I think um, you know, I think having kids kind of forces you to develop a balance. Yeah. Um, it forces you to be extremely efficient. So yeah, when I, you know, I used to be able to just kind of work whatever hours, and you know, it's like you have your normal day, but you have to polish off a presentation that you didn't have time for during the day. Um, I used to be able to do it any time, and now I'm finding that it's like that might be a nighttime thing, a playing thing, and and you know how it is, it's like uh, you know, you're trying to make a balance in your life in general. You want to be amazing at your job, you want to be amazing at being a parent, being a spouse, whatever, um, and have some hobbies in between. So I just think that time, you know, and uh and I think enjoying the moments. Um, a lot of people talk about that, but it's like really enjoy it, because you know, kids are growing up fast, you you age, you don't know what's coming tomorrow. So for me, it's really just about like really enjoying being in the moment, taking care of myself, make sure I can last another 20, 30, 40, 50 years, whatever, you know. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah, it's amazing how how life changes. They and you look more in the future when you have the kids. Yeah, yeah. So I started my my the MSP back in '93. Okay, yeah. And I was working way too hard and not paying attention to myself. I was in my twenties, Cam. I could I could take on the world. And my diet was poor, and next thing I know, I'm in front of the doctor, and she tells me I'm at 340 pounds. Oh my god. No, no.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Did I tell you this? I don't believe it. No, no.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah, so I was a 47-inch rate. So now I'm 32. So, yeah, so I had gained all this terrible amount of weight. Didn't know. I knew I was getting big. I was drinking too much soda and pizza. Yeah. But she tells me technician's diet. Technician's dietas and mountain dear. And Mountain Dew. She says to me, if you don't lose this weight, you're not gonna see your daughter graduate. So my daughter was just born. Okay. That's what the doctor tells me. So I'm driving home, punching the steering wheel. Yeah. I can do, I can abuse myself all I want, but it's much bigger than me now. Yeah. I have this girl that somehow I've played a part in bringing into this life, this beautiful, beautiful girl. So I spent the next six, seven months lost about 120 pounds. Wow. And so you can't look at these things as a finishing line, right? These are lifelong changes. Yeah. So when I tell people this story, Cam, they always say, What's your secret? What you do? And I say, There's no secret, discipline, right? Routine, focus, willpower. How does discipline play a role in your life, Cam?

SPEAKER_02 31:57

I think it's a similar thing. It's like, you know, you have motivations, whatever motivates you to like, you know, do well in your job or, you know, be healthy or whatever you want to do. And yeah, I think it's similar for me. Um, I think for me, I always like the idea of being youthful. Like, you know, I I've been going to this event for quite a long time. And I see some people who literally have an agent like 20 years, and I'm like, I don't have to ask them what their secret is because I know like when I ask them, they're gonna say, well, I drink a lot of water and I wear sunblock and stay out of the sun, and you know, drinking in moderation, and whatever it is, you know, it's like all these like little microhabits, though. I'd be lying if I said I was the most like healthy eater in the world, but you know, I'm also not like crunching Doritos every day and all that. And and I read, you know, I I I stay educated on the things that might hurt me a little bit, and you know, I love sour candy, but you know, it's like we all have our little vices and all that. I think it's more of just like a balance, and so when I think about it, I you know, I would love to be an old guy with like little grandbabies running around, and I get to teach them, and I kind of get to do the baby thing all over again, and that's I think that's a big stretch goal for me. Wow. That's my stretch goal is being a grandpa. Yeah, yeah, and then you know, I'm like uh what from 43 now, so I got a little while to get young man. I relatively, relatively. So yeah, I think that um I think that kids kind of keep you they keep you grounded, they keep you uh motivated, you know. I want them to do well in life and be able to make easy decisions on where they want to go to school and all that, so you know, that requires dad to stay in the work seat, you know, and and do well.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

We were talking earlier about the discipline in your house when you were a child. Yep. Was it talked about, was it discussed, and how is that manifested now as you as a parent?

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Absolutely, you know, my dad, uh he was a police officer, uh, and a really good one too, is real service-oriented, um, just a good guy in the community. So I had a great role model there. Used to go on fun little ride-alongs, and I kind of see him like, you know, be a service person in action. And, you know, he was just always so organized and, you know, good about how he spoke to people. Um he stressed the importance of being organized and being on time and you know, just like basic stuff. And then my mom, she was so good at like, hey, you know, right from the get-go, like, we need to make sure you can do laundry and you can, you know, you have a checking account when you're a kid and you understand finances, and you know, and they're both good at like go out to a restaurant, let's try something a little bit more exquisite, or you know, like they had us eating oysters, like a lot of them are on the East Coast, so it was like oyster shots from the uncles, and you know, we did clam bakes and things like that. So, and I worked in restaurants too. So I think between my parents and influences with jobs I had, um, I had a little t-shirt company and did you realize? Yeah, you know, it's funny, I've been in sales a long time, and so I've had to we're all in sales.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

We're all in sales. People people need to realize that.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Yeah, so I don't know. Yeah, it's just uh it's a lot of different people in my life. My parents were were key. You know, I think they just had some really good influences and gave me a good base. So I give a ton of credit to them. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

When you're making a decision, regardless, either in parenting or in business, I I I I've known you for a while. You strike me as a as a art versus science, as more of a side getting the data, understanding the problem, but you also do motocross, and you also like Metallica, and you also, you know, so there's that side as well. How often do you ask the gut, rely on the gut to make a decision? Do you make it first, do you make it last? Do you uh include it at all?

SPEAKER_02 35:35

I actually do kind of a sandwich approach. So I look at the gut feeling, and then I do the science, and then I go back to the gut and I'm like, do these things match up here? And you know, I think as I grow older, I got I trust the gut more because um, you know, absolutely, I want the data, I want it like anybody else. Yes, you wanna you don't want to make decisions just blindly. Like if you're going purely off a gut, you're probably gonna be wrong a decent amount of the time. But I also, you know, I've been around enough scenarios, I've I've had to make enough important decisions, like you know, you kind of have this gut feeling like this is probably the right move, but let me just cross-check this with something and just to make sure that I'm I'm going down the right path. And so I'm always cautious, you know. Uh it's funny, my kids, um, the first one, extremely cautious, the older one. Second one, just leave, just do it. And so I'm like, We all do. Yeah, you guys are like this perfect little yin-yang of like decision making, and so I think there's little cues and reminders to kind of stay on that track of like there's a value to being cautious, but don't be overly cautious because then you're gonna miss out. But don't just jump, like, you gotta make sure what you you got the cord attached if you're gonna bungee jump, right? So it's like that kind of approach.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Yeah. Have you changed your mind on anything in the last month or so?

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Yeah, I'm not gonna have three kids. Yeah. That was the 30-day decision. No, no, me and my wife joke about that.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Um, I think uh The problem with three kids is you've got to go from man to man to zone.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. We don't have enough uh help around the house for that, so it's just me and my wife, and you know, there'd be one running somewhere else. Right, right. Um no, you know, I mean I just uh no. I that's probably a boring answer.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Did you change your mind often?

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Occasionally, sometimes I'm not always married to the same thing. What I like to do is uh if I make a decision and it's not working out, then I pivot, you know, like anybody probably should. Um I think the way I run my household, the way I run my business, you know, those kinds of things. I think it's okay to make the wrong decision, it's fine. But then if it's the wrong thing, then pivot, right? So I do the same thing in my personal life, although you know it's like I try and be pretty careful when we go down a path like this is the right thing to do. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

What motivates you?

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Uh let's see, well, uh I'd be lying if I said money didn't motivate me. I'm I'm in sales, right? Yeah, yeah. No, but um, I think just um I think freedom, right? Like, like, you know, you make money to be able to have certain freedoms, to go on vacations, have experiences. Um I think uh successes, you know, like in my professional life, I want to see success, you know, I want to keep achieving that, and I'm I'm thirsty for knowledge too. I mean, I think the reason why I still like cybersecurity, probably still love it, is because it's changing. Yeah, it's getting more dramatic. Like the stories are getting like just incredible. And you know, the agentic AI thrown into all this, I'm like, wow, this is like Skynet, this is actually sorting sort of happening. So I think that um, you know, as this this industry evolves, I think that it's really cool to see where it's going and how the tools are getting more automated, and then the threat actors are really interesting. So the things that they're doing to try and break down our defense is it's just interesting. And I think that it doesn't matter what side you're on, the good or the bad, I think they find interest in each other. So it's like a cat and mouse kind of thing, and I think that just the thirst for knowledge, I can never read enough about what we're doing and what actors are doing and all that and how we defend. So it's super interesting to me.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Fiscal, family, humble, always stay hungry. So given these motivators, how do you measure success?

SPEAKER_02 39:20

Uh I think success is just really kind of bars you set for yourself. I mean, you know, it doesn't always have to be about one thing. Like, for me, uh, if I can learn a concept and regurgitate it in such a way to an audience who then gets it, who's then into it, like i.e. the presentations I give, I think that's success. I mean, you know, I I go out to an event, I was just out at uh Exchange Orlando, and we had a nice little showing. Uh we did like this little pre-event and you know warmed up the room that came was uh about 25 service providers. And you know, we went from everything from like who we said is and like our our global threat research down to the product layers, and we got a lot of questions, tons of engagement. For me that day that was success.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah, and then I think you know, um, you know, seeing my kids like do well and you know, I'm pumping a lot of effort into parenting and all that. So when they start to learn, they start to socialize and they're having fun and they're happy, that's major success to me. Um yeah, just travel experiences and you know, getting to do things, I I think that all that's success as well.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

You know, my daughters every year they don't they don't ask me anymore, like when during the holidays, what do you want, Dad? I want experiences. I don't want yeah, I don't want I got enough items, Cam. I just I got too many.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

No more choice, no more things.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

If I want something I get it, you know, but I can't I can't get the experience. You know, I'm so glad we finally did this. Anyone watching or listening, how can they get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Yeah, yeah. So I mean you can contact me, uh, you know, email me, give me a call, like all my stuff's on LinkedIn, so that's an easy way. Uh get a hold of ESAT if you have any questions about our our team, our consultant service, our threat intel, our product layers. Um, you know, it's all amazing stuff. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Well, make sure to put it in the show notes. Scan talent is a great pleasure, my friend. Of course, of course. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, well. All right. Thank you for listening and/or viewing Joey Pins Discipline Conversations. Please share this episode with one or two of your friends who you think may benefit from the episode. Our website, www.joeepins.com. There you find lots of resources, and you can join our mailing list. Please follow us on all our social media, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Podcast information, the video version of our podcast is on YouTube. Please subscribe. Audio is on all major podcasting platforms. Please follow them. And if you like it, please consider giving a five star rating. We'd really appreciate it. Thank you again for listening or watching Joey Pinn's Discipline Conversation.