Joey Pinz Discipline Conversations

#862 Nable Empower 2026: Vikram Ramesh - 🚀 From Engineer to Storyteller: Winning in the AI Era

• Joey Pinz • Episode 862

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What separates average MSPs from those scaling fast in today’s AI-driven world? 🤖 In this episode, Joey Pinz sits down with Vikram Ramesh to break down how technology, storytelling, and adaptability are reshaping business growth.

From his roots in engineering to leading marketing strategy, Vikram shares how connecting with people—not just selling technology—is the real driver of success. The conversation explores how AI is transforming marketing, enabling smaller teams to scale faster, and redefining how MSPs position themselves in a competitive market.

You’ll also hear why consistency in messaging matters more than constant reinvention—and how MSPs can evolve from “ticket solvers” to trusted strategic partners delivering real business outcomes.

🔥 Top 3 Highlights:

  • 🤖 How AI enables small teams to scale like larger organizations 
  • 📣 Why storytelling is the foundation of modern marketing 
  • 🚀 How MSPs can shift from IT support to strategic business partners 

This episode is a must-listen for MSP leaders, marketers, and entrepreneurs looking to stay ahead of rapid technological change and build lasting customer trust.

 

#MSP #Cybersecurity #AI #MarketingStrategy #BusinessGrowth #DigitalMarketing #ManagedServices #TechLeadership #Storytelling #Automation #Entrepreneurship #Innovation #JoeyPinzPodcast

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Discipline. How does it play a role in your life? How does it drive your decisions? Do you have too much or too little? Every profession, hobby, or passion requires a level of discipline. I have used it in weight loss (+130 lbs.), family death, and found a +25 year business. Am I an expert? Absolutely not! Please join me, as I speak to interesting people and find out how discipline affects their career, life, goals, and decisions. Join me as I talk to interesting people in: #Health, #Fitness & #Wellness: #Business, #Technology & #Science: #Art & #Culture: Website: joeypinz.com All social media @TheJoeyPinz Do you wish to Sponsor? Get the prospectus here: www.joeypinz.com/sponsor

 

 

 

 

 

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SPEAKER_04

Enable Empower 2026. What a great event. First time I've ever gone. I was invited by their excellent leadership team. Sold-out event there in Fort Lauderdale were 650 MSPs, great talking tracks, great keynotes. Like I said, the leadership was great. They had this whole nerd area. It was like a cafe kind of area where people can go in and get some help. It was just set up really, really well. Leadership was incredible. Kim, MK, and Nadia, you know, that helped me and a couple other podcasters that were there as well, but just an incredible event. Was able to have five great conversations. Started off with Nadia, of course, Carasteros and why community wins in the MSE world. I've had the pleasure of knowing Nadia for quite a while now, 15 years. Great for the community. She's just uh really energetic. Great, great conversation. The CEO, John Pagliuka. We have a lot of common. Uh, in common, John and I, of course, were uh big Manchester City fans. It was announced at this event that Enable has partnered with them, the official sponsor of their cybersecurity there, the CTO of uh Man City was speaking on stage with John, uh building resilience businesses like a championship team. Vikram Ramesh, great conversation with Vikram, the CMO. Uh, has an engineer back background, and now he's completely uh in this role now and and and loving it. Really engaging conversation. I enjoy talking to marketing uh people from engineer to storyteller, winning in the AI era. And Stephanie Hammond, oh, what a delight. I got to meet Stephanie when I was there. Um, and she ran the whole that nerd cafe there. Really interesting insight, turning trust into revenue for MSP growth. She's been with Enable. I think she was like number 109 employee, something like that, 105, and there's well over 1900 employees now. Uh great conversation with Stephanie, lots of energy. Um forward to uh working with again with her again in the future. And last but not least, Frank Coletti. Um, another person I have a lot in common with. Um, he is uh scaling MSP success in a changing tech landscape. A lot in common with Frank and uh really great conversation, really engaging. The leadership, like I said, him there was tremendous. Really enjoyed my time at Empower 2026. Hi, I'm Joey Pins, and here's my 45-second introduction. After starting my business in the 90s, I started developing poor habits of eating in my diet because of working way too much. Before you know it, I found myself 340 pounds. The doctor told me if I don't lose the weight, I'm not gonna see my daughter graduate. Took the next seven months, lost 130 pounds. People think there's some secret. Ask me, how'd you lose that weight? Like there's some secret. There is no secret. How'd I lose the weight? Just one word. Discipline. I've had other successes in life, and I attribute them all to discipline. Now I'm not the king of discipline, but I believe that it can help all of us. Friends, colleagues convinced me to start a podcast. The podcast mission, how do we better ourselves and society? I talked to interesting people in health, fitness, sport, wellness, business, technology, science, art and culture. And I eventually asked them how discipline plays a role in their life. Podcast vision, growth through learning from others. Alright, how about why UK horror films and not regular horror films? What's the attraction there?

SPEAKER_01

UK horror film? I love horror films.

SPEAKER_04

But I thought you liked United Kingdom ones specifically.

SPEAKER_01

Japanese though. Oh. Not UK.

SPEAKER_04

Why Japanese?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's a lot more.

SPEAKER_04

What's different about a Japanese horror film and an American?

SPEAKER_01

Ask me a question again.

SPEAKER_04

What's the What's the difference between a Japanese horror film and an American horror film?

SPEAKER_01

So an American horror film is extremely predictive. You get a bunch of people going to a cabin and then shit happens.

SPEAKER_04

They do stupid things.

SPEAKER_01

Stupid things, right? Yes. Sorry for swearing. Japanese horror feels a lot more real. There's a lot more storytelling. The background score helps.

SPEAKER_04

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01

That's why.

SPEAKER_04

In this fast-paced MSP landscape, how do you stay ahead? Introducing MSP Influencer.com, your ultimate hub for MSP news, insights, and community connection powered by Forza Dash. More than 75,000 MSP subscribe to our MSP Influencer Pulse weekly newsletter. Staying informed and ahead of industry trends. Tune in to emerging podcasts from Joey Penns and leading MSP voices, offering essential tips, powerful insights, and success stories. Explore our multi-authored lives crafted specifically for MSP leaders, delivering fresh perspectives and actionable strategies. Celebrate excellence with the industry leading Forge Dash MSP Influencer Awards, recognizing innovation, leadership, and impact in the MSP community. Join thousands of MSP professionals who trust MSP Influencer.com to grow their business and expand their networks. MSP Influencer.com, where today's MSP leaders connect, collaborate, and conquer, all powered by the Forge Dash platform, helping MSP vendors work effectively with MSPs and helping MSPs grow. Wow, and that's what intrigues you.

SPEAKER_01

I love horror.

SPEAKER_04

Is there less blood?

SPEAKER_01

It's not about gore. I say. It's not about gore at all. A lot of uh most horror films use gore as a way to show off, but I don't think it is. It's just the real story. There's story, there's suspense, and there's There's a recent Taiwanese horror film called completely blanking out of the name, but it was probably one of the scariest things I've seen today.

SPEAKER_04

Really? And why was it so scary? The suspense.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's it's just the suspense, the way they told the story. There's some even though it was a lot of paranormal and superstition and all that, but a bit of fantasy, but it worked.

SPEAKER_04

Like The Exorcist. That's a horror film.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

Is it scary to you?

SPEAKER_01

When I first watched it, yes.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. Now?

SPEAKER_01

It's a movie. It's a movie. That's interesting. How'd you hear about my fascination for horror?

SPEAKER_03

Any real beat bit of research. Have you tried to make horror films? What's your what's your fascination?

SPEAKER_01

No, I just watch movies of multiple languages. I I love to read horror. Yes. That's how I started. Ah. And then got into movies.

SPEAKER_03

You love to read horror.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, horror books. And as a genre, that's something my daughter and I enjoy listening and watching, actually watching together.

SPEAKER_04

And you love getting scared together. Scared being scared is entertaining.

SPEAKER_01

And it's not being scared, but it's knowing what could happen next. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_04

Whatever the writer has in store, you don't know what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know what's gonna happen. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

Are you that way in life? Do you like change? I love change.

SPEAKER_01

Change is uh change is amazing. I think it's a wonderful thing. Um and I think change is great. Because then you look forward to something, right? I'm uh engineer by training. Uh right. But I got to the got to do marketing and I'm doing marketing now for a living. So either I came from the dark side or I went to the dark side, depending on who you ask.

SPEAKER_04

It would seem to me, Virkram, that marketing is the complete opposite of engineering. No? There's still numbers and statistics, there's still science.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. This this but there's still storytelling and there's a lot of there's some structure to it, right? It's uh um it's how you tell the story, but how you tell that in a consistent manner. There's a lot of engineering to it, and how do you make sure you can break it down into the smallest pieces? That's how I approach it, that's how I got into it.

SPEAKER_04

What is it about marketing?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's about the people. It's all about the people, right? It's about connecting with the people, the emotions, and telling the stories in the manner that resonates with them. Like a good horror movie.

SPEAKER_04

Hmm. And the difference between marketing and sales.

SPEAKER_01

So with marketing, I'm driving thought leadership and awareness. With sales, I'm closing business. But I'm still storytelling, but uh I'm a lot more focused. But I could also do sales from a marketing standpoint with digital and everything that's happening. Right. It's marketing has changed quite a bit, right? A lot of consumers that uh people that come to our website have almost made the decision on what they've done the background research. I'm not trying to educate them on why they need a security operation solution. They know that they need one, they know that they need a managed service on top of it, and they know that the managed service has to do X, Y, and Z. So now, can I close the sale directly? Maybe. But can I hand off to a salesperson as a hot lead so they can close it? So I think at the end of the day, we at Enable we look at that as go to market. And the way we plan it, we marketing and sales does planning together, we do KPIs together, and we go out to market and close business together.

SPEAKER_04

So if an MSP is listening, many don't know the difference between marketing and sales. What would you tell them at that level?

SPEAKER_01

One is giving air cover, the other is helping you close the business. Air cover. So if you're an MSP that's your and you have a business that's growing well, or you want to scale it to the next level. As a matter of fact, I was speaking to an MSP uh team member in Florida, and they were talking about how can I scale better and take it to the next level where I don't have to be around for the MSP to grow. Right? A lot of MSPs founded by a really small team, right? When they stop, when they decide to retire, the MSP dies out. In this case, how do they grow to the next level? And that's where you need to tell the story and scale better. Right now with AI, a smaller team can scale much faster. Yes. Right? And that makes it an interesting opportunity for a lot of teams, MSPs, to say, how do I leverage this to tell a bigger story, acquire more customers, and grow?

SPEAKER_04

How is is AI helping hurting marketing?

SPEAKER_01

I think AI is helping a lot, right? A lot of change, and I think AI is a wonderful thing. Um we are looking at building agents even internally. Right. I'm building agents. I haven't coded in 25 years, but I'm writing code now. Me too. It's a scary thing, but I'm I'm doing it. But I think it's helping us do things. I can build out agents to review content, do social, and so that makes it interesting. So AI is an enabler, and for MSPs that are looking to adopt it, I think it's you approach it like another tool, not something that's gonna take your job, right? And I think that's uh makes it interesting and you consume it differently.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you certainly can. So we're at your big empower event here in Fort Lauderdale, it's your annual event, it's gonna be your biggest ever. I hear 650 MSPs. It's I've been talking to your leadership, it's just a great, great time to be here. What are some of your goals this week?

SPEAKER_01

Our goals this week is uh helping our MSPs be successful at the end of the day. How do I help them grow their business? How do they how do I help them drive more outcomes where they're not looked at folks who are helping solve IT problems or closing uh tickets, but driving resilience as an outcome for their end customers because then that elevates the conversation. We have security solutions and we have a lot of MSPs that are becoming MSSPs because security is an important boardroom conversation. We want to help them sell more and drive more outcomes and grow business through that way. AI is something we are we have announced and we will be announcing. Let me restart, but I want to make sure that since this is coming out later. Yes, it will. We have announced uh Enzo, which is our AI assistant, that is helping MSPs do faster workflows and scale better with automation. We have AI in our security operation solution. 90% of our Tier 1 tickets are being automated with AI. Wow. And our data protection solutions have nine uh AI guaranteed recovery protection. So I can be sure that the data that's backed up can be recovered. And so this is helping them tell a differentiated story going further up the stack and drive talk about outcomes they can influence with their end customers.

SPEAKER_04

When an MSP is selecting Mikram uh uh a cybersecurity partner, what questions should they be asking?

SPEAKER_01

It's the so I've been doing cyber for 26, 27 years now. It's changed a lot, right? It used to be all about alerts and catching those alerts. Endpoints. Right? I'm talking even going back to firewalls back in the day. And then it became endpoints. How do you manage an endpoint? How do you protect an endpoint and making sure it's not getting hit? But we've come to this point where you need to talk to vendors who can help you manage the entire life cycle. What I mean by that is you have an endpoint that needs to be protected, which is important. Make sure it's managed, it's monitored. But in case there's an attack, you want to make sure you're staying ahead of the attacks and making sure your security operating system is there. You have the same single plane that's looking at the entire ecosystem and making sure during an attack you contain the attack. And in case the attack happens, how do you get back up and running as a business? That's also important. A lot of vendors, they the way they approach it is they have either one piece of the story and they have to partner with two others for the next two pieces. By the three pieces, I mean endpoint management, security operations, and data protection. We are the only one uniquely positioned in the SMB space that can work with MSPs and offer the entire lifecycle before an attack, during an attack, and after an attack, and have solutions that can do that and help them. And that's what MSPs should be looking for in their cybersecurity vendor and partner to say, how do you look at that entire estate and how do you manage? Are you just an EDR vendor that manages an endpoint, or are you just a backup vendor that does data protection?

SPEAKER_04

What if discipline wasn't about punishment, but about unlocking your best self? I spent two and a half years writing discipline for greatness, because discipline changed my life. And I know it can change yours too. This isn't a theory. Inside you'll find real practical steps you can use immediately to focus better, build stronger habits, reduce stress, accomplish your goals, and bring more balance to your life. Whether you're trying to get healthier, improve your career, or simply feel more control. This book gives you the framework. Start today. Grab your copy of Discipline for Greatness at joeypins.com slash book. Thank you. You know, I'm a former MSP. Talk to MSPs all the time, Victor. The three things that keep them up at night have been pretty consistent last six, seven years. Number one is cybersecurity. If their clients get attacked, they're gonna, they're flat rate generally. So they're gonna have to allocate resources, they're gonna lose money, they're probably gonna get fired, they might even get sued. Number two is human capital. How am I gonna keep my people happy? Unemployment here in IT in the states, uh 1%, whatever it may be. Keeping those people happy, getting new people, human capital, and then third is growth. Private equity has poured in hundreds of millions of dollars, their friends are selling their MSPs, getting nice cars. How am I gonna grow my MSP either organically or through acquisition? How does Enable help in those?

SPEAKER_01

So I'll start in the reverse, right? So at the end of the day, an MSP has to tell a differentiated story and that helps them grow and scale faster. And I'll go back to it's all about helping customers get to the outcomes. It's not about tickets, it's not about an IT um support where they're looked at looked at as a commodity player, but it's about elevating the conversation to me as a strategic partner. And these are these are about making sure that can I guarantee that I can you can be resilient in case of an attack. So we launched uh DR DRAS, which is our disaster recovery as a service solution, which can confidently tell MSPs and the end customers that in case something happens, we can restore your business and you're back and up and running as a business, not a single server or not a single endpoint. That can help them grow and scale up to a bigger uh bigger than where they are with a differentiated positioning. Going to the second piece, um, IT is expensive. That's where AI can help with Enzo that we are launching and more capabilities that's coming soon. A three-person team can scale like a 10-person team. Amazing. Right? That automation is amazing. And then going back to the first one around endpoint management, it's about making sure you stay protected while delivering what can uh whatever the needs of the business are. You still have to solve the IT tickets, you still have to take care of the backups. But can you do that in a manner where you show this differentiation and drive those outcomes? I think that's where we can help today, and that's what we announced at uh Empower this year.

SPEAKER_04

Has there been something Vikram you believed like 10 years ago, let's say? Strongly believe then that you no longer believe now.

SPEAKER_01

From uh what perspective, Joe? Never say never. I think there's always uh it's easy for someone to say, I'm not gonna be doing this business or I'm not gonna be adopting something. Change has come so far. Look at look at it in the last three months, right? AI has completely taken over the world. Yes. We do so much with AI. Till last year we would just write emails with AI. Now we're building workflows with AI, we're doing automating with AI, and we're building businesses with AI, right? I think there's so much change that's coming that I think there's still so much disruption coming. We think we've seen it all, but there's more. Yeah, there really is. That's the exciting part.

SPEAKER_04

I remember, you know, we used to talk years ago about going to the cloud, and then these new companies were kind of born in the cloud. Now these new companies are born in AI.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you gotta be AI native, right? You don't you don't ever say you're in the cloud. You assume you're in the cloud. Right. Right? I think same time next year, we'll be talking about AI native companies, which are changing how the industry operates, right? They didn't exist a year before. Which makes it interesting.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

What do you think? What do you think next year when we get together and we talk next year? What do you think will be different? Here from today, here from this week.

SPEAKER_01

That's a great question. Um I think we'll be talking about AI agents that are uh helping MSPs scale up. Maybe MSPs become manager intelligence providers, right? Where it's not about single uh it's not about building uh employee force, but it's about building an agent force that can do their jobs. And it's about autonomous IT, autonomous security, and having agents do a lot of that, right?

SPEAKER_04

Is there a question, Vikram, you wish more people would ask you?

SPEAKER_01

I think the question that that I think about a lot is from an MSP perspective, there's still a part of the business that has a human element to it, right? Why should MSPs be looked at as someone who's serving only the SMB business? The enterprises also have it. There are still ways in which an enterprise can leverage an MSP to scale its operation. I feel in a lot of the conversations, some of the MSPs I met they are put in an artificial box to say they cater to a specific set of the industry and they can scale up. With AI, there are no limits there, right? I don't have to be a 2,000 person shop to deal with an enterprise. If I have an agent force, I can still be a 10-person company that can do this for them. Right? That makes it interesting, and I think that's that's possible, and maybe that's something we'll be talking about next year.

SPEAKER_04

What do you love most about technology?

SPEAKER_01

I'm a early adopter from a technology standpoint, be on the personal or the work front, and I think um the opportunity is endless, and that that is amazing as a technologist, and leveraging AI, building with AI, home automation, you I I love all of that, right? And the fact that it's a lot more visionary and helps me take the options are endless, right? That makes it a lot more interesting. Because I'm and I'm constantly learning. That helps me a lot to stay out of the game.

SPEAKER_04

And what do you like least about it?

SPEAKER_01

About how how much I have to spend to keep up with the technology change, but I don't mind that. Yeah. But I don't like it too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. People uh I always say uh I love the way it's constantly changing, and it's you know, it keeps on improving and changing, and I hate the way it's constantly changing. Change is a wonderful thing, right?

SPEAKER_01

It's good or bad, depending on how you look at it. Depending on how you look at it. Yeah, I I tell my team all the time AI is coming, and either you love it or not, but make sure you love it. You like it or not, right?

SPEAKER_04

It's yeah, yeah. Started my MSP back in the 90s and I was working way too hard, 14-hour days, six years. You're no stranger to this. I'm sure putting my health in the backseat, you know. And next thing you know, I'm in front of the doctor who tells me I'm at 340 pounds. So I had gained all this weight. I knew I was getting big, but I didn't think I was that big. And she says to me, if you don't lose this weight, you're not gonna see your daughter graduate. My daughter was just born. Scared the life out of me, Victor. I'm driving home, I'm punching the steering wheel. This is my pie hole. I did this to myself. I can abuse myself all I want, but I've got this family now, right? It's much, much bigger than me. Spent the next six, seven months, lost about 120 pounds. That's amazing. Yeah, thanks. Okay, you can't look at these things like finishing lines, these are lifelong changes. So when I tell people this, they always say, What's your secret? What do you do? I say there's no secret, discipline, right? Routine, motivation, focus. How does discipline play a role in your life?

SPEAKER_01

Discipline is extremely important. I love um biohacking. So I'm constantly trying new things. I'm not a big fan of medication, but I'm all about Not diets, but at least trying new ways to exercise and new ways to lose and and measuring everything. So I have an Aura ring and I track all my metrics. You you would have heard uh at Empower, John talks about personal resilience. Yes. It's about a whoop band. How do you bring that personal resilience into everything you do? And and staying ahead of the game, right? As it's again, it's a game and you gotta stay ahead of it. And you solve you have different metrics and different levers that you tune, and uh that's the engineer in me trying to say, what can I biohack my way through and uh make some change.

SPEAKER_04

You say you're an engineer by trade. Was was discipline kind of brought up in the house? Was it exemplified? Was it talked about?

SPEAKER_01

All the time. All the time. All the time. That was important, right? And um it's all about time was important, sticking to time is important, discipline was important, and that's uh helped me where I am today and shaped me.

SPEAKER_04

You mentioned you're in uh central Texas there and also one of my favorite cities, and you're empty nest now. How are you handling that?

SPEAKER_01

We're figuring out empty nesting. It's just been a year. Um we haven't figured it out quite yet. We've been traveling a little bit, my wife and I, but we're supposed to get hobbies together. That's something we haven't figured out yet. It's it's still new. They'll come.

SPEAKER_03

Is she a horror fan?

SPEAKER_01

She's not. So it's my my daughter and myself. I and she's away.

SPEAKER_04

I say, yeah. Is there something in the last month or so you changed your mind on?

SPEAKER_01

I change my mind frequently. But that's helps me keep ahead of things. That's way I don't get too comfortable with something and just and uh become complacent. So there's always some change.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I like to think that I can change my mind on any topic given new evidence.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. So that's the engineer me in coming back and saying if I have data to prove it, I consume a lot of information and that hopefully helps me make an informed decision. At least I think so. I think I do.

SPEAKER_04

What motivates you?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's about um staying ahead of the game and making sure I'm always innovating and changing keeps me motivated. That's that's exciting for me. I can't sit still not doing anything. So it all comes back to change.

SPEAKER_04

Innovation and change is really a theme, isn't it? It always is. And how do you measure success given that motivation?

SPEAKER_01

Success uh see, uh with innovation and change, you gotta be willing to experiment. Yeah. You gotta be you sh you would fail, but it's okay to fail, but fail fast is what I believe in. That's what I tell my teams. As long as you have the growth mindset and you're willing to fail fast, innovation change will come and you can see success.

SPEAKER_04

What can an MSP learn from you about marketing?

SPEAKER_01

What's important is telling a differentiated story, but making sure that differentiated story is consistent. If you keep consistent. Right. So in these cases, it's uh it's okay to be boring, meaning I've talked about change a lot, but from a marketing standpoint, if I keep changing my message ever so often, and as an MSP, if you keep changing your message, people are gonna forget who you are. So that's where consistency is important. But you gotta keep fine-tuning it, right? Messaging is not is not a point-in-time exercise. Messaging has to evolve. As you talk to your customers, as you talk to your prospects, they're gonna you you're gonna hear what resonates with them. And you gotta adapt to that and keep uh keep up, but keeping your core theme there. That's extremely important. It's important to be in front of uh be in the digital channels your customers hang out in so they get to see you. And they need to look at you as a trusted partner. That's extremely important, right? Because otherwise it becomes marketing fluff and you can back it up. If they look to you as a trusted partner, they'll come back and work with you.

SPEAKER_04

You mentioned a digital channel, expand on that.

SPEAKER_01

So everyone's hanging out online, be it Reddit or LinkedIn back in the day, or any other um content sites. At the end of the day, people are consuming information multiple ways. You gotta be there. Now, with AEO and um AI generated uh results with uh Gemini and Cloud and Perplexity, you gotta show up in those platforms if someone's searching for the best security operations platform for the mid-market. Now, how do you influence that? You gotta do work as a marketing team member on your MSB side. You gotta make sure you build content that these AI engines need and show up in those places as you build trust.

SPEAKER_04

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SPEAKER_01

Drive differentiated outcomes. Talk about the resilience you offer to your end customers and and provide a strategic value prop to them so you're not looked at as team members that deal with daily uh IT tickets and service desk tickets, but someone who's a trusted partner delivering those right business outcomes.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you so much for your time. If anybody wants to reach out to you, the best place, probably LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01

LinkedIn, email.

SPEAKER_04

Very good. We'll make sure we put it up. I thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Joey. It was a pleasure. Great pleasure.

SPEAKER_01

Awesome.

SPEAKER_04

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