Akiona Law Podcast
Join us as founding attorney Lani Akiona interviews industry experts on everything you need to know about Family Law and Divorce in Seattle Washington. Akiona Law: Caring for You in Your Time of Crisis.https://www.akionalaw.com/**The information in this podcast is general information only and should not, in any respect, be relied on as specific legal advice.
Akiona Law Podcast
The Akiona Law Podcast: Featuring Jacinta Gallant
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In this episode of the Akiona Law Podcast, Ululani “Lani” Akiona speaks with Jacinta Gallant, Canadian collaborative lawyer, mediator, and educator. We discuss insight meditation and how it offers a powerful alternative to traditional negotiation or litigation. Insight mediation is focused on managing the defensiveness that gets in the way of productive dialogue, so that people can understand and articulate their needs and concerns, clear up communication challenges and collaborate to discover possibilities that will help them make a healthy shift in their relationships.
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Hello, welcome to another episode of the Akiona law. Podcast we're in. We talk about anything and everything that intersects in the areas of family law and divorce. And today I have with me respected Canadian collaborative lawyer, conflict trainer, medator, and innovator in her field. Jacinta.
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Hi.
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Welcome, Jacinta.
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Thanks for having me on the show.
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Yeah, I'm so glad you're here for those of you who don't know Jacinta. She is a she is welcomed as a trainer throughout Canada. The Us.
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Australia and southeast Southeast Asia. Uh. She is known for her insightful approach to teaching and managing interpersonal conflict in new ways.
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Such as how to stop talking about, what.
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We lawyers.
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Meet. You know what we lawyers or other professionals think the conflict is about, and what we think matters to the parties, and instead, to be curious.
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And ask good questions to help parties discover this for themselves.
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And about what matters to them in ways that.
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Do not that do not threaten them? And have people become defensive? Um!
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Yeah.
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Again. Uh, just since. I'm so glad that you're here today.
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Me too.
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We're gonna we're gonna talk about.
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Mm.
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Insight, mediation, and um, I that's how I got to know Jacinda from taking insight mediation. I was like what the heck is. Insight mediation, because you don't hear that you hear about what you hear about shuttle mediation, facilitative mediation. And I was just blown away. I was completely blown away. Um.
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But tell us about your story. Tell us about your journey.
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How did you.
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Oh!
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Get from like train family law, divorce, litigator.
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To mediator, and then now insite mediation.
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Yeah. Well, I mean thanks for asking. I think so many lawyers who end up.
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Being drawn to the collaborative.
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Law or Collaborative Practice, movement.
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Right.
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Went to law school because we wanted to help people. I mean, let's be clear on that. And so the fact that the divorce lawyer concept is so negatively portrayed in in the media and and in the public. It makes me sad sometimes, but I'll be honest um, after my years of being a good litigation family lawyer.
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I realized how pointless the whole thing was, and, in fact, that it was causing more harm than it was helping. I mean, I can think of a few cases where my client really needed that protective advocacy that I was able to provide. But I'm gonna say, for the most part.
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If our clients have been given the right support to works things out and discover some things about themselves and their sort of their hopes for the future.
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Oh, my! Gosh!
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Their family, and they're particularly their children, would have been.
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So much better off.
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And so I naturally lean towards mediation, even when I was a litigation lawyer in on the West Coast. Actually I was in British Columbia.
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Okay.
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And as I learn more mediation skills around asking, identifying the really key things that matter to to parties.
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And helping them, craft solutions that will really be bespoke that will really meet their needs and address their concerns.
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My God! I was so much happier! I had more fun at work.
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I felt more satisfied. At the end of the day I found myself.
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Able to spend my days off.
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Not planning a cross examination or thinking about the next great legal argument to win this case.
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Right.
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So I I began certainly, in the early years of motherhood, to really notice what I was thinking about when I was pushing my kids on the swing or walking along the beach.
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And I'm just like.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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This is occupying far too much of my brain space to be thinking in this defensive offensive mode, which is what a litigator is.
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And so, as I develop my skill and my practice around mediation.
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I like, I'm gonna say, about 20 years in thought.
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There's more than this. I know that the human.
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Beings that are engaged in this very challenging conflict process would be better served.
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If we weren't nudging them towards solutions all the time.
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And it just so happened that when I was wondering and a little.
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Getting dissatisfied with my days in the office.
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I met the founder of Insight mediation. Cheryl Picard, who was a Canadian professor in conflict studies program with Carlton University.
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In Ottawa, and she had just retired and agreed to mentor me. I was immediately drawn to what she was describing.
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Okay.
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By way of what's going on for humans when we're in conflict.
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And then the strategies and skills that she developed were immediately resonant with me.
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For what I was seeing in the room.
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Wait. And what are we? What are we? Are we like in the 2,000 S. What timeframe are we.
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Oh, okay.
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Well, actually, we're we're at 2016 before I yeah, before I met Cheryl Picard. And and prior to that, I was really doing a lot of training in the model that most.
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People in North America, and I'm going to say around the world are trained in for as mediators or as negotiators. And that's the model. That's the interest based approach.
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Venture, space.
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Yeah, I mean, so so it's ah, it's an effective problem, solving model.
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But.
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Yeah.
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Can I pop you right there for like cause, you know, for the for the people who aren't like attorneys who are.
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Who are.
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Yeah.
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Just regular normal people going through divorce and trying to figure things out. Can you please? Can you explain what is interest? Mediation.
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Well, yeah, I can. And and one way to think about it is um.
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When when people are are shocked or upset, or worried, or all those things that happen, when when a big life change comes about.
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We often then come up with our list of of what we think would be the best outcome, and we.
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Describe it in a way that somehow is interpreted by the other spouse as a demand.
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Right, right.
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Yeah.
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Right. I have an idea. Why don't we do this? And the other person's like we're not doing that. And so you've got this. I, honestly, you're nodding because everyone sees this happen. It's like a classic argument over the thing.
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The thing.
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And so what was a great advance from.
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People just arguing over the thing as if it was, you know, about.
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The cottage, or the car, or the schedule.
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Most often, if they were given an opportunity.
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To really.
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In a relaxed fashion. Talk about their goals, their concerns, their needs, their fears.
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And their values.
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Wait. Let's let's let's.
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Suddenly. It's not so much about the demand. It's about what are the things that I need in order to feel whole here.
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Their goals.
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Their fears.
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Their needs and their values. Okay.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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And I. My brain jumps all over the place.
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All the time.
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Mine does, too. So this is great.
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I know that. No, because, like, I'm just like in my head, I'm like, Okay, so your tempo is this right? Like, well.
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I need a house.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I need this house, because, you know, we we bought this house together, and you know, recreating of welfare kids so we can't get rid of this house like in my head like that's a need.
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What?
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Yeah, and guess what the way you've just described it, you expressed your need, which, interpreting as a demand.
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Yes.
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And then you've given me all your justifications. You've tried to persuade me that I should get the house, and this is why.
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Exhibit A exhibit. B. Exhibit. C.
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So as lawyers, we do that, anyway, I mean, that's our natural way to convince someone to see things.
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In in the light that our client wants them to see them.
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But when you're the human being who's.
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Separating.
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And you have to have a really important conversation about.
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Where people live.
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How the kids are going to adjust to the separation.
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Um your worries about the future, both economically, even emotionally.
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When we can help.
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Clients.
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Or clients can help themselves.
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Serves.
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Talk more about those.
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Concerns, needs, fears, hopes.
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And really the values that.
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Are motivating their behavior.
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Well, you're gonna find 15.
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Or 20 different ways to manage housing.
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The kids being comfortable in in 2 homes.
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Um managing the the financial.
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Sort of impact of.
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Whatever happens.
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And and and and.
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Even.
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The early models of mediation.
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Would encourage us.
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Mhm.
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To help people explore their position or their demand. The house.
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In a way that might expand the notion of what's possible.
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Maybe it doesn't have to be this house. Maybe it's a house in this neighborhood, right? But it's all very much moving people towards finding a solution to the problem called, What do we do with the house?
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Okay.
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So stay with me for a minute on that, because.
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If.
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Right.
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If having a discussion about what to do about the house was all that we needed to do.
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Okay.
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The model, the interest based model.
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Would work in that, I would say, well, here are my needs, and here are your needs. And I. I'm concerned about this, and you're concerned about that. I'm hoping for this. And so the challenge that we have is.
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When people are feeling calm.
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And centered, and supported and grounded.
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They are often fully capable of having those kinds of conversations.
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And so.
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What happens is.
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In most cases where people are.
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I mean, have some kind of interpersonal relationship.
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And in our cases an intimate relationship.
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Yes.
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You have a huge amount of emotions that are fueling defensiveness.
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That are urging me to justify and persuade.
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And you owe me.
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And I sacrificed.
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Hmm.
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And everything, the the language of.
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The.
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Negotiation, shall I call it?
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Right.
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Is more about justification, which just we know now from neuroscience.
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The minute I try to justify something to you.
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You're gonna get to fence up.
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Right.
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Yes.
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So so it just it just doesn't work. I mean, if it worked.
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If it worked in every case.
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Well, you and I wouldn't have jobs.
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Like people would be able to do this.
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Sure.
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So what happens is the models that we've been using.
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While.
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Far better than litigation, or like position.
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Bargaining.
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Um didn't make room for.
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The very real.
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Human emotion.
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That's.
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Leading to people to behave in defensive ways.
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So what insights done is it's begun to look at what's going on when people are in conflict.
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In a way that actually makes sense to what you I can just tell me you're nodding.
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What we observe when we see people in conflict.
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Is a classic argument. I mean, I'm saying this. You're saying that I'm not listening. You're not listening, you know.
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There no one wins an argument. If you're.
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Intention is to try and.
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Help the other person. See your perspective.
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Oh! That too!
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Well, and people are flooding, too, so they're either.
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So yeah, you've got people who won't listen because they're.
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Pissed off and being defensive, you've got people who can't listen.
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Because they're flooded.
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Because they're flooded.
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Yeah.
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And so what our best effort at a mediation or collaboration model did, using the interest based approach.
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Was trying to help people at least expand the notion of what's possible.
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It's just that it never really addressed.
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The huge, the natural human response.
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To a perception of threat. What leads me to be defensive might be.
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My interpretation of something.
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Yeah.
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Could be accurate, it could be not accurate.
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And.
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My sense that something that matters to me.
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Is feeling threatened.
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And I'm gonna defend.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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So that's the part that insight brings us is.
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Saying, oh.
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Okay.
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We can think of moments, and I'm sure people who are listening to this outside of our profession can think of a time where they had a tough decision to make, and they were at odds with the other person.
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But they were able to talk it through, and eventually like sort it out.
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Pause for a moment, and that that happens.
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Okay.
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When people are feeling ready to have a conversation and hear each other's perspectives.
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They can often expand the notion of what's possible, and come to good decisions.
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So we just have to remember that that does happen.
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But how?
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And what's absent.
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What's absent.
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Is defensiveness.
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Yes.
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So the minute people are defending or advocating for their position, which is another way of defending.
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The other person will naturally be.
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Like.
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Drawn in.
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To react in a defensive way.
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Right like it. It's it. If something's at stake that really matters to me.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I interpret you to be the person that's in the way of what I want to get.
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We're automatically.
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Risking any.
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Dialogue.
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By defensiveness. I mean, it's just think of the neuroscience.
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Mhm.
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Okay.
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That we now know, because we've been able to watch brains for more than 20 years. Right stuff. We didn't know before that.
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If I'm experiencing you.
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Or this situation.
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To threaten something that matters to me.
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It could be at the values level, or it could be that there's a grizzly bear coming down the path, and it actually is a threat, but but as soon as I see that threat I'm shifting my grain into fight.
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Flight.
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Right.
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Freeze upon right? So I'm actually, cognitively not able to be expansive and open. I'm going to be shutting down so that I can focus on this threat.
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Right.
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And as long as I'm focused on that thread I can't learn anything new, anyway.
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And I'm not open to hearing your perspective.
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So our model, you've described different ways shuttle mediation. We've got collaboration. We've got all kinds of models for how we can help people.
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To reach agreement, and most of it.
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Doesn't work.
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Until people are no longer defending.
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I see and just repeat out their shuttle. Mediation is what the mediator goes. Parties are in separate rooms, the mediators go back and forth in its interest, and that.
00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:32.000
Oh!
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:36.000
Well, like. Honestly, I think shuttle mediation isn't really mediation. It's a system. I have a strong feeling on that.
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:39.000
To me. Mediation occurs when both.
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:49.000
Parties are in the room when it when it's safe and comfortable to do that. So virtual room or in person, and they're invited to participate in their own decision, making.
00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:59.000
Not by some shuttle person that goes back and forth. So I'm gonna just say for the for the people listening, I feel strongly that we need a different word.
00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:05.000
For situations where the the people who are gonna be living with the outcome.
00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:06.000
Hmm.
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.000
Are not even in the room together hearing each other. That's just something else that's assistant negotiation.
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:21.000
Us assistant, and and unfortunately, that is traditionally the model in family law and divorce, where the mediator goes back and forth. And you're doing a 9, 10 h mediation session, and you're just done. At the end of the day.
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:23.000
Keep her tired.
00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:24.000
Yeah.
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:27.000
Yeah. Well, that's not them. All that to me is inhumane.
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:31.000
Um. It is not client-centered.
00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:32.000
It's not.
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.000
It is not consensual. Most clients will not.
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:40.000
Consent to that, they'll feel stuck by it, or they might feel pressured to do it. We just need a different word for it, and I'll tell you this.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:47.000
In many places in the United States. That is how they imagine mediation happening in family law.
00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:48.000
Yeah.
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:55.000
But in Canada, if you're trained as a family mediator, you're trained in a facilitative way. Most of us would never. We would see shuttle as.
00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:57.000
Like only if necessary.
00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.000
Oh!
00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:00.000
Well.
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:01.000
Truly, yeah, absolutely.
00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:02.000
Yeah.
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.000
It's a go to here.
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.000
In Washington.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:13.000
Yeah. So it may be no surprise that insight mediation go out of Canada. And it isn't just Washington. It's actually many, many places.
00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:14.000
Okay.
00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:15.000
And so I don't want to pretend that in Canada they don't have long, full day mediations, and all of that.
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:16.000
Okay.
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:20.000
But the way we're trained would be very much more facilitative as a default. That would be the way that we're trained.
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.000
Well, so let's talk about. Let's what is insight, mediation, then.
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.000
Yeah. Well, it would be.
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.000
It.
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:28.000
Like, how do we.
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.000
Definitely it is.
00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:30.000
Engaging.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.000
Okay.
00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:32.000
That. Let's call them the clients.
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:33.000
Okay.
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.000
Engage in the clients.
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:38.000
In a process where they discover their own.
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.000
Needs, concerns, fears.
00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:42.000
Hopes.
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.000
Values.
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:50.000
In a way that invites them to be themselves. They don't have to come and show up and be someone else. In fact, we.
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.000
We want the clients to be.
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.000
Truly who they are now.
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:57.000
And with a focus on the future for sure.
00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:58.000
But.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.000
We need to make room for the stories that.
00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:03.000
Have led them to where they're at.
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.000
Nice.
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:05.000
So the stories.
00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:11.000
That lead me to make assumptions about everything that you say when you say.
00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.000
When you say um.
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:17.000
The.
00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:21.000
When you talk about how great our vacations were every summer.
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:26.000
I'm thinking about. What are you talking about in my mind? I'm like they weren't that great.
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:31.000
I did all the work, and you were usually just showed up at the end of the day for dinner. Do you see what I mean?
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:32.000
You came along for the ride.
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:41.000
We've got story every yeah. Every time we've got people who are ending an intimate relationship, there's gonna be all kinds of assumptions that are.
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.000
That are, that are, that are filtering everything that they come to understand.
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:51.000
From one another, and so the insight mediation approach is to look at.
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:57.000
Each client's experience and how they're expressing it and understand it.
00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:01.000
In a way that.
00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:04.000
Where there can be a dropping of assumptions.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:10.000
So we spend a lot of time in clearing up misinterpretations.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:11.000
Yeah.
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:12.000
So rather than have a mediator go from one room to another room.
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:18.000
Shuttling. Imagine it's like the telephone game the message gets lost in the transmission.
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.000
Insight, mediation wants the clients.
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.000
To have direct.
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:28.000
Discussions about the important things that matter, and they will always.
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:33.000
Almost always.
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.000
Yeah.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:35.000
Default into assumptions that lead people to get defensive. So we work with.
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:36.000
The defensiveness.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.000
Our focus is on trying to help the clients relax and open up.
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.000
Mm.
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:45.000
But not by prying it out of them, but by trying to understand. What is it that's feeling threatened that matters so much.
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:51.000
And how do? How do we, or how do we do that? How do we get there?
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:58.000
Um in an insight mediation, you would always have a meeting with each client individually, so that I would have a really good sense of.
00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:59.000
Who.
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:10.000
Yeah, who who Jane is, and and what it is that she's most concerned about, and the things that are leading her to like lose sleep at night what she's most worried about, but also.
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:15.000
Because I have an individual relationship with her. What is she hopeful for the future?
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:21.000
Or or what are the values that she wants to really see, guiding her decision, making.
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:24.000
So then I can have a save the same conversation with.
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.000
Joe.
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:32.000
And so in that way an insight mediator has the enough background about each of the clients.
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.000
To be able to be supportive of both of them.
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:42.000
So that's a really fundamental feature of not just insight mediation. But it really doesn't.
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:52.000
Fit the theory to expect the 2 people who are in conflict right now.
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:53.000
Right.
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:54.000
That the 1st time they meet the mediator is when they're both in the room. That's that just wouldn't be unheard of.
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.000
Unheard of.
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.000
Because how else can you manage to calm people down.
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:01.000
By using inside skills.
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:07.000
Like curiosity, like showing a truly sincere desire to understand.
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:08.000
You.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.000
In all of your complexities.
00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:16.000
Without the pressure of feeling how you're going to be performing in front of the person.
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.000
That you're now in conflict with.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:19.000
Right.
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.000
So we start there.
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:28.000
What? So how do we get to the values of each individual.
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.000
Yeah.
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:38.000
Yeah, well, that's always been really hard. It's it's really hard to. I've often heard people say you can't negotiate values, so don't talk about them, because, of course, our values are intrinsically about who we are, what we care about.
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.000
What motivates us to make decisions.
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:50.000
So I developed a an exercise that was inspired by a therapist out of New York, um, where? Where my clients are invited to do.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:55.000
A card sort. So you you take it. A big set of cards, a deck of cards.
00:21:55.000 --> 00:22:07.000
That have on them all kinds of values, but also things that you value. So there's like integrity, honesty, but also family vacation, cooking meals, do you see? So it's this really mixed bag of.
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:09.000
The things that I value.
00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.000
And my intrinsic values.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:19.000
So we do a card sort. And because clients get to do this on their own time, right? They're doing it privately on their own.
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:24.000
They're able to sift and sort through the more important and the less important values.
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.000
And then narrow to, you know, 4 or 6.
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:30.000
That are really showing up for them. Now.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:36.000
Okay.
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:37.000
Yeah.
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:38.000
And when they can reveal their values 1st of all to themselves. Right? It's a real learning experience for you, as you.
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.000
Yeah, on your own, but also.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:46.000
To be able to share your values with your soon to be X.
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:51.000
In a way that isn't threatening is what the insight mediator facilitates.
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:56.000
So it's not a competition of your values and and my values. It's.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:57.000
What?
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.000
Was it like to even do that exercise.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:01.000
Would be an insight question.
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:05.000
Whoa!
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:06.000
Yeah.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.000
Instead of going straight to what are your 4 values which are which is really, I'm looking for information.
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.000
Okay.
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:15.000
So we're always asking questions that that are less threatening because they're getting it. What was your experience of doing that.
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.000
And then you'll hear this conversation. Well.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.000
It was hard.
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:25.000
Yeah.
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:26.000
Um.
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.000
You know. I I found myself, and then people will tell the story. I found myself thinking about my high school teacher like they'll tell a story attached to the value.
00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:30.000
Right.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:35.000
And then they're able to reveal. Well, and when I pick this value, this is what it means.
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:36.000
Where.
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:37.000
So.
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:38.000
Okay.
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:42.000
When I do this with the couple, when they're both in the room together, it's less threatening because they've already done it.
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.000
Right.
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.000
On their own. It's not like there's no competition.
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.000
They've already.
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.000
Explored it a bit with me.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.000
So that they're they've they've got a language now to explain.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.000
How they came to arrive at this.
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.000
Being their core values. For now.
00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:03.000
And when it comes up in a joint meeting it's amazing how it diffuses.
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:09.000
Really.
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:10.000
Yeah.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.000
It's it's ah, it's ah it! It just diffuses. Because when we hear people stories, we pay attention.
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:12.000
And so.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:28.000
That, you know I can't. I mean, actually, I can't think of an example where this didn't happen. But I could imagine someone saying, Well, these.
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:29.000
Right.
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:30.000
Chat.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:31.000
These are the. This is what happened for me. And I realized that I haven't been living these values because you're such a jerk. Do you see what I mean? Like you could see. But I've never seen it weaponized.
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:32.000
You ever seen it weaponized.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.000
Because it's it's it's not a.
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:40.000
These are not challenging things. These are like, who are you? How do you show up and insights you?
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.000
The parties, the clients.
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.000
To be yourself.
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:52.000
So we don't have to mask and pretend we're oh, it's future focused, and we're all ready for a great solution. Win-win.
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:53.000
Win-win.
00:24:53.000 --> 00:25:00.000
We're actually able to be the who are who are you as the human being? And on this day, in this moment and insight, mediators are very, very present.
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.000
To what's going on for these human beings in this moment.
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.000
It's.
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.000
It. It's so much easier.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:09.000
Then.
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:12.000
The problem solving method. When people are resisting.
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.000
And then they're often solving their own problems.
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.000
Oh, I never thought of it that way.
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:19.000
Or.
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:25.000
That's a really good question. I have to think about that.
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:26.000
Okay.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:29.000
I can give you an example. I'll give you an example of the difference in the way you can ask a question.
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:33.000
I could say, Hey, what did you have for breakfast?
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:40.000
Where does your mind go when I say, what did you have for breakfast?
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:41.000
Yep.
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:42.000
Yeah.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:43.000
I think, to my yeah, I had uh my coffee with collagen and some joint powder.
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:45.000
Right. So so you have an answer.
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:46.000
Right.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:49.000
Okay, so.
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:50.000
I'm gonna just I'm like.
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:51.000
What do I? Oh.
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:55.000
Okay, uh, I had. Uh granola.
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:57.000
Like, how boring isn't this boring.
00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:58.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:08.000
Like it's so boring. But when we often ask questions of clients that we're, we're just trying to get information, and we're trying to nudge them forward. They often don't have complex.
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:09.000
Like deep answers.
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:10.000
Cause.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.000
Well, I had granola.
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.000
So what if I say.
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.000
What is your favorite thing about the whole breakfast period?
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:22.000
That time of day.
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.000
What does your mind have to do then?
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.000
I feel like it has to think a lot more.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:29.000
Yeah.
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:30.000
Like what's important to me.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.000
Yeah.
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:32.000
What's the value?
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:33.000
Yeah.
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:34.000
So so I'm gonna say that.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.000
That that it's really insight teaches us to ask better questions.
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:38.000
Oh!
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.000
The grip.
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:41.000
Right.
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.000
Like, we want to ask better questions, cause our questions can be so narrowly focused on outcome.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.000
We think we have a job to do, and yes, clients want the outcome. Oh, my God!
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:57.000
Clients were listening, or people who we know. We know you want an outcome. It's just that the thing that gets in the way of getting to that outcome.
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:59.000
Is the human behavior.
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.000
That is so authentically.
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.000
And understandably defensive.
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:11.000
Yes.
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:12.000
So.
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:16.000
Right. So as long as I'm defending we, the neurosciences, as long as I'm defending, I'm not listening. I'm not open to learning anything new. I can't explore a new possibilities.
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:17.000
Right, right.
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:20.000
And if we were taught that.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:21.000
20.
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:22.000
Years ago.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:24.000
We would have saved so much time.
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:28.000
Trying to make things happen when people aren't ready.
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:29.000
So true.
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:45.000
And I've I've done Jacinta's value card sorting, and I I totally congrats what you're saying, because I had to sort. And you know you had to narrow down, narrow down, and it was hard to get to those last.
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.000
Yup!
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:58.000
5 or 4 cards I can't remember, but it's even like I really had to stop and think what is my value at this present moment, and I can just think if I was going through a divorce, and I was there with my spouse.
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:01.000
And, instead of, you know, starting it off well.
00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:11.000
You know she wants to keep the house, and you know, what do you want to just come in with like, okay. So, Lonnie, why did you pick those 4 values? Tell us about it.
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:12.000
Yep.
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:13.000
How was that experience like.
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:14.000
Yeah.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.000
Just so much more to immediately removes the defensiveness. Well, I picked.
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:19.000
You know in your.
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:21.000
I picked um.
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:28.000
I don't know what else, what I'm trying to think of. The where are my valley cards? Inner peace? Um!
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:29.000
Autonomy.
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:30.000
But your experience of doing the exercise.
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.000
Yeah.
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:34.000
True.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:35.000
Led you to discover something about yourself, and that is.
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:36.000
Power of insight is that.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:45.000
So inside mediation is grounded in learning theory. Okay, so sorry for those of you who are interested in the theory. But know that the reason we're so.
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:51.000
Great. I'm going to say great at asking questions that get that connect the heart in the mind.
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.000
Like, we want people to be.
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:54.000
Connecting.
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.000
Is, that.
00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:00.000
Um, everything we're doing is trying to open up pathways to learning.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.000
So.
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:07.000
When I ask a question that's just asked and answered. Would you have for breakfast, Rana?
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:08.000
Right, right.
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:13.000
There's not. There's no learning going on, it's not even. There's nothing whatever. But when I.
00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:15.000
Ask questions that get at your values.
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:24.000
Yeah.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.000
Right.
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:31.000
Or get it. What you value. Remember, like, I love breakfast because of this, or I actually hate breakfast because I'm not a morning person, do you see? But you're gonna have people that can respond to the question. They have to think more, but they have to engage also in.
00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:33.000
They're hard in mind.
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:39.000
So I sometimes hear people um worried that people are going to a.
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:43.000
Divorce aren't ready to have this kind of conversation.
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:47.000
Because they're still feeling so raw or hurt, or this, and they're that.
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:48.000
Right.
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.000
And what what bothers me about it is this.
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:52.000
Um.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:57.000
So that is the case for most couples it's not easy. Some.
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:01.000
It's easier for sure.
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:02.000
So.
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:05.000
Does a problem solving model that nudges them forward all the time.
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:11.000
And that sort of contains the conflict and says we're just not gonna talk about values. And we're not gonna go there.
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:16.000
I just need to challenge.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.000
Yeah, how was that?
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000
Our colleagues and say, Well, it, how is, how is that? Better? Right? I just need to understand how it's better. I I don't know.
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:27.000
When when it's raw and you're pushing someone who's just so raw and hurt and anger, you're pushing them. Problem. Solve? What are your needs? What are your interest?
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:31.000
How can we get there? No, it's almost in my head, I'm thinking that's the wrong thing.
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:36.000
Well, that's why I hear so many people saying, Oh, my God, why didn't we know this? I'm like, Okay.
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.000
But we know it now.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:45.000
So what I say is the 1st thing you learn as an insight mediator is, you learn to notice defending behaviors. So you notice.
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:52.000
Behaviors that that send the signal now to me as the mediator. This person's defending.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.000
Okay, so justifying, persuading, leaning in raised tones.
00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:57.000
Right.
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.000
Um.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.000
Okay.
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:02.000
Aggressive positioning, but also withdrawing, leaving, not responding. You see.
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:03.000
Right.
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:08.000
So I'm gonna say that that's a that's a signal to me as the mediator. There's defending going on.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.000
Great.
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:11.000
And I stop there.
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:12.000
Yeah.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.000
And I wonder.
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:21.000
Too often we see these behaviors, and we think, Oh, I know what's going on. Oh, it's probably this.
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.000
Right.
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:27.000
Or I guess they just need to move to the next agenda item. Do you see.
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.000
Yeah.
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:30.000
Right.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:32.000
And the thing is they might go along with it, but in the end they'll have the fight in the parking lot, or, you know at the soccer field, or it just it's it isn't sustainable, though you might.
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.000
Achieve something.
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:35.000
So the neuroscience.
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:37.000
Tells us this.
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:39.000
When.
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:40.000
You.
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:41.000
Feel.
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.000
And experience me.
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:46.000
To really want to understand you.
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:48.000
You can't help yourself.
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:50.000
You can't.
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:55.000
You experience satisfaction, security and tension, relief.
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:56.000
Right.
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.000
If you experience me to really want to understand you.
00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:04.000
You will experience those 3 positive emotions.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:16.000
If you experience me trying to push you or or reass. Oh, don't worry, everything will be fine. How often have you been met with that like you obviously don't know how hard this is for me.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:17.000
Right.
00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:22.000
All these things that we do that are about like trying to tell someone.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:26.000
Guide them, advise them, nudge them, move them, shift them, it.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:29.000
If people are feeling.
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:32.000
Vulnerable and threatened. They cannot.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:33.000
They cannot.
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.000
Help, but resist and defend.
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:36.000
So.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:49.000
Insights, questions.
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:50.000
Okay.
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:51.000
It's not just asking. There's a whole framework of how you, how you acknowledge how you summarize, how you, how you do all of the skills that any mediator needs to do is focused on.
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.000
Helping each person.
00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:59.000
Achieve that sense of calm that comes from feeling like someone really wants to understand you.
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:01.000
So we have gotta stay.
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:02.000
With.
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:05.000
The person who's exhibiting the defending behaviors.
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:10.000
And try and help them understand both themselves, and help us understand the behavior.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:11.000
So Kit!
00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:17.000
So we have to notice and wonder, and not assume. We know what's going on.
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:18.000
Yeah.
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:26.000
I'm sorry to interrupt. Can we role play just to kind of give like example? Okay, so we'll go back to that example of the house right? Cause that's always a big hot topic in any divorce. So let's pretend.
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:35.000
You know I'm let's pretend I'm the person that wants the house. So you're the mediator. I have my pretend husband over here, and I'm saying, Well.
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:40.000
Yeah, I'm on our family home, because you know, um.
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:43.000
It's gonna create generation of wealth for our kids.
00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:44.000
Yeah.
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:51.000
And that's important to me. It's important for me to pass her home down to create general wealth. Sorry kids don't have to struggle.
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:52.000
Yeah.
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.000
So.
00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:01.000
Just as a cyber, so a as the mediator, I'd be noticing how your spouse is react is reacting. By the way, it's a big part of being in the room together.
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.000
And I might ask a question like.
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:05.000
Lonnie.
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:08.000
What do you? Word will happen if.
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.000
You're not able to.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:12.000
Keep the house.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:29.000
So I. So if we're not able to keep the house, then our kids lose. We don't have this ability to pass this huge equity to our kids and create generational wealth.
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:30.000
Yeah.
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.000
Okay. So one of the things that's really concerning you right now is how you will ensure that your kids have something for their own future, like some financial legacy or or financial support.
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.000
Yeah, cause I want. I don't want them to struggle like, how.
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.000
We did. I wanna set them up.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:41.000
Yeah.
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:42.000
Yeah.
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:47.000
Okay. So you and you and Joe have really struggled with this decision that I'd I'd look at.
00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:48.000
Joe and.
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:55.000
And and it seems like it seems like you. You've really been unable to have a productive discussion about this.
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:56.000
Yeah.
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:58.000
Right cause. Joe wants to sell the house, and I don't want to. I want to lease something to our kids.
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:02.000
Yup. So what? So what? I? What I want to invite you to think about right now.
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:04.000
Okay, is.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:09.000
If you can have a productive discussion about this today, with my help.
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:10.000
What are you hoping will be better.
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:15.000
In your life, or for your family.
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.000
Well what I'm hoping.
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.000
That would be better, for our family is just to kind of.
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:22.000
Just have.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:26.000
Set them up with some sort of financial security.
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:31.000
And if you were able to achieve, to be sure that whatever agreement you and Joe reach.
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:32.000
Did.
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:35.000
Satisfy the kids' needs for financial security.
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:41.000
How would that help.
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:46.000
How would it help if we set up an agreement to ensure our kids financial security.
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:49.000
Ah! I guess it would.
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:51.000
It would give peace of mind.
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:52.000
Yeah.
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:53.000
Knowing that the kids would be okay.
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.000
Yeah, so this is really something that that.
00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:59.000
In some ways has been keeping you up at night.
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:00.000
Yeah.
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.000
Yeah.
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:10.000
Me, worry.
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:11.000
Yeah.
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:13.000
So one of the things that. And so then I would ask Joe. I might ask Joe the same question, and Alex. So the whole idea. Is that all I wanted to do, Lonnie? I didn't want to knock you off your position and make you not want the house.
00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:14.000
Okay.
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:16.000
All I wanna do was understand.
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.000
How would a productive discussion.
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:20.000
That you and Joe have not been able to have yet.
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:21.000
Craig.
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:22.000
Because we're stuck.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:27.000
How would that help your life.
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:28.000
Okay.
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:34.000
And so in the end, when you say peace of mind, we could have explored that further. But Joe's now hearing that this is something that's keeping you up at ninety's not hearing, Joe, you suck, cause you didn't agree.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:35.000
I see, I see.
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:42.000
And so each. But each piece of what I do is an insight mediator is responsive to.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.000
What's going on now like with you, but also.
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.000
Noticing what's going on with the other person who's in the room.
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:50.000
Wow!
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:57.000
Because if I notice that Joe, suddenly listening to you when you say peace of mind, I'm going to go in a different direction. There's no prescription here.
00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:58.000
The only, the.
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:02.000
There's no formula, there's only a strategy, and the strategy is.
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.000
How can I help Lonnie.
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.000
And Joe.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.000
Here and understand one another.
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:13.000
So I'm going to ask questions that will help you reveal more things both to yourself.
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.000
Right. I wanted you to do some thinking.
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:17.000
Yeah, which I was.
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000
And.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.000
Then I'm gonna I'm gonna be.
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:22.000
Noticing. How is it resonating with him.
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:23.000
Hmm.
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:27.000
And suddenly, we're not talking about the house. We're talking about peace of mind and legacy for kids.
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:31.000
But I didn't manipulate you into that which is what we used to do.
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:36.000
Like in the problem solving model. We'd be like, okay, how can we do this? This and this.
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:39.000
When you're so angry with one another because.
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.000
You didn't have a productive discussion about it.
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.000
Still, a lot of hurt.
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:44.000
Very angry. Lots of anger. Yeah.
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:45.000
Yeah.
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:50.000
When how does this? Okay? So I've got over here and I'm reaching behind me to grab. You've got.
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:52.000
We've got 2 workbooks here.
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:59.000
Okay, so I've got our fit like, tell us about this. We I've got our family in 2 homes. What? What is that?
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:08.000
So I when I became an insight practitioner, i i i studied for a year with Cheryl Picard, and I'm like I suddenly came back to the office and thought.
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:10.000
I want.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:13.000
I know clients aren't prepared for this kind of dialogue.
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:14.000
Right.
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.000
In my existing model. They're they're not.
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:18.000
I would have to spend more time.
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:24.000
With each of them. Really, I'm gonna say, in my old view, would be coaching them to be more effective communicators.
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:25.000
Okay.
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:28.000
You see, like. So I was all over that I thought, oh.
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.000
I needed to do that. And then, when I studied inside, I'm like.
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:36.000
No, I just need to ask better questions and have clients.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.000
Able to reflect.
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.000
When they're not with me.
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:47.000
So I created the our family 2 Homes workbook, which is full of reflection, questions that are really engaging.
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:50.000
They engage clients in their own self discovery.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:55.000
At home with a cup of tea or bottle of wine, whatever it is.
00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:04.000
On their own time, so that when they do begin to participate and work with me, or with you, or with mediation collaboration, whatever it is that they need.
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:06.000
They've spent some time.
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.000
Doing the values card sort.
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:09.000
The valley. Okay.
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:10.000
Reflecting on.
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:12.000
Where they're at with trust.
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:15.000
So we break it down into workable parts.
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:17.000
Um inviting them to talk about.
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:19.000
In the discovery for themselves.
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:24.000
How do they behave when emotions are strong, and conflict seems to be rising up.
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:25.000
Do you run?
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.000
Do you? Do you lean in and fight?
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:29.000
Um.
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:38.000
We? We invite people to explore who they are. Are you someone who thinks out loud and is very, very active socially, are you someone who prefers to think in your mind.
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:41.000
Before you put it out. There you are reverted.
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:42.000
Hmm.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:46.000
So. So we have people exploring who they are, how they show up.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:48.000
Those questions in there about hopes.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.000
And there's questions in there about fears.
00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:55.000
And there's questions in there about, how do I make decisions?
00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:00.000
I use this? Um.
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.000
Okay.
00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:09.000
I use this exercise with a couple yesterday who were clashing about a decision. And I said, Let's turn to page 8, and there's a question here about how? How? What's your preferred way of deciding.
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:13.000
Um analytical, intuitive, consulting, exclusive.
00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:15.000
Delegation.
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.000
Collaborate. I forget the 5th one, so it's often.
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:31.000
A reflection that couples can do on their own because they understand where they've struggled with decision making. I'm gonna plug in my Mac. I don't know why it's not.
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:35.000
Beautiful. If this whole thing stops.
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.000
Um.
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:39.000
And and so it turned out that they're just different.
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:43.000
He is intuitive. He decides with his gut. She's more analytical. She does all the research.
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:54.000
Oh!
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.000
Right.
00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:56.000
And she's frustrated that he doesn't look at the research, and he's frustrated, that she demands that he looks at it when the answer is obvious to him. So the way from being mad at one another and thinking each other sucks to going.
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:57.000
Oh!
00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:05.000
We're different. And I said, and actually, and you're also different. Want to use more extroverted want to use more introverted. So even the way you engage in discussions around decisions.
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.000
Would be different. Have you noticed that at home.
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:09.000
And they're like.
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:11.000
Yeah.
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:16.000
So what the workbook did was take everything I was learning about, asking curious questions.
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.000
But also that learning theory. It's grounded in a in a.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:26.000
In a discover the the value of discovering something for yourself.
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:28.000
Then it's powerfully transformative. You.
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.000
So people do say.
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.000
Wow! When I did the values work.
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:34.000
Gosh! I realized.
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.000
If I done this 5 years ago, I might have chosen.
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:38.000
Differently.
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:39.000
Right.
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:45.000
Now I'm really clear. And so that's the part that I'm excited about. I did it because I wanted clients to have a better experience.
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:58.000
I started using it with my clients. And now it's around the world. And I, I'm really appreciative of the people like you are gonna start using it with your clients.
00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.000
Yeah.
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:05.000
Well and just in terms of. So again, I had the our family 2 homes, workbooks, and that's the one with kids. So let's say I'm again. I'm a client. I'm coming to you for to do mediation.
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:06.000
Okay.
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.000
I'm disappearing because I gotta plug in again. I don't know what happened.
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:08.000
We're good.
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:09.000
Keep keep going. I'm listening.
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:10.000
Be right back folks.
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:15.000
So we're gonna take a.
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:16.000
There! Good!
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:17.000
Okay, you want to start over.
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:34.000
Okay. So you're back. Okay? So even, okay. So we're, I'm a client. I'm your client for insight mediation. I'm coming to you. And you're like, okay. So hey, Lonnie, before you and Joe even meet with me, you and Joe are gonna do the workbook pages. What one through 10.th
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:35.000
Hello!
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:36.000
One to one, the 3.rd The 1st 13 pages are all reflection.
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.000
Yup!
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Your 13 pages, so me and Joel have homework to do ourselves before.
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:41.000
Separately, not together.
00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:43.000
Separately before we even meet with you.
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:53.000
Yeah.
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:54.000
Yeah.
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:55.000
And that homework. I'm looking at it right now. So again, it's a card sort. You've got stuff about um asking yourself, what am I most concerned about as I began this process. So that's a question.
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:56.000
Yeah.
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:02.000
Then we've got communication. What is getting in the way of healthy communication as we approach decisions about our separation.
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:03.000
Yeah.
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:22.000
And it should see such amazing just questions. So so me and Joe come together. You know we do the 13 pages we come, we meet with you, and then I'm confused about okay. Then then what happens next?
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:26.000
Okay.
00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:27.000
Okay.
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:28.000
Yeah. Well, remember. Okay, so with insight mediation, it's all about helping you and Joe have a productive discussion to make agreement and make decisions. Okay.
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:29.000
So what happens is.
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:33.000
You're already shifting a little bit in your own perspective of you.
00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:36.000
What I love about it is it invites you to look at.
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:37.000
Freaking you.
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:40.000
You are the one that will live the rest of your life.
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:43.000
And you're not going to be with Joe anymore.
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:52.000
So it invites. So I'll say very clearly the clients. This is your private journal. This is your discovery tool.
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:53.000
Okay.
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:54.000
Knock yourself out and see what resonates with you.
00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:00.000
So when I meet with each client individually, I'll ask something as open as hey! What was it like to do? Those exercises.
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:01.000
Yeah.
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:03.000
And then you launch into whatever it is that resonated for you.
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:05.000
So that it's totally.
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:06.000
Um.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:10.000
Guided by what interested you. Some people.
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:18.000
Went crazy with the trust page because it's such a big thing. Other people are looking at introvert and conflict style. Other people are like.
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:19.000
Have written a paragraph.
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:24.000
For each of the questions. In the 1st couple of pages everybody's different.
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:28.000
And what I have learned is how many assumptions I made.
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:31.000
About clients, and how similar they were.
00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:35.000
Before I was able to really have them explore, because.
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:48.000
We none of us, unless you study communication and conflict resolution. You don't.
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:49.000
It doesn't. It doesn't factor it.
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:52.000
Come to your 1st meeting with your lawyer mediator, knowing what your conflict style is, where you're at with trust, what you felt. I mean. It isn't what people do. So what I did was, I'm like that.
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:53.000
Yeah.
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:54.000
That affects so much about decision making.
00:44:54.000 --> 00:45:06.000
So. So what happens is we can clear up these misinterpretations.
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.000
Right.
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:08.000
Using the tools that are in there. Because, as you carry on through the workbook, there's questions about parenting. And then there's questions about financial decision making. And then there's information about.
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:16.000
Child support and spells support and property. But it's all articulated in a way that makes the client the center.
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:21.000
Right. They get to decide. What is it that they want.
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.000
And when people are asked that.
00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:26.000
They tend to be less positional.
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:29.000
Cause they assume. They have to convince me.
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:38.000
But when I'm like, who are you? How do you show up? What are you worried about? What are you hoping for? What are your values?
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:42.000
Emily.
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:43.000
Right.
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:44.000
They're already like, can you? You mean you can have? Yeah, like, let's help find a way for you to to make decisions and reach agreement that meets these needs.
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:45.000
Right.
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:47.000
Some of them are the same, some of them are different addresses. These concerns.
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.000
Gives you the best chance to get what you hope for.
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:57.000
And is in alignment with these values that you want to have guide in your decision making. They don't have to be the same.
00:45:57.000 --> 00:45:58.000
But we often.
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:05.000
Our other model, and without.
00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:06.000
No.
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:07.000
This kind of client preparation tool people aren't ready for those conversations, and it's no wonder.
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.000
Our colleagues as much as we care about the work that we do.
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.000
Can sometimes feel very frustrated in.
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:20.000
The level, the the superficiality of the dialog. When we're just talking about trading.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:28.000
Assets, and dealing with money.
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:29.000
Yep.
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:46.000
So I have a question. So I'm looking at page 11, and I'm you know I've got your your family in 2 homes workbook, which again, is for couples that have children. So page 11 talks about communication and conflict styles our couple. When I need to talk about difficult things with my former partner. I tend to behave like, and you know you fill it in. I interpret my former partners behavior as we fill it in.
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:53.000
And so what I'm feeling here filling in about communication conflict styles.
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:54.000
Yeah.
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.000
Or is that just for me, or I gonna talk about it with you? Am I.
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:56.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:59.000
Yeah, you've given me a great opportunity to introduce one more piece about insight.
00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:00.000
Okay.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:01.000
Alright!
00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:05.000
So that primes the pub for you to begin to think, how do I interpret? How do.
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:06.000
Oh!
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:07.000
Oh!
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.000
So my behavior is this.
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:15.000
How is it often interpreted? Because there's another question, how does your former partner interpret your behavior?
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:16.000
Your behavior.
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:22.000
So it's it's truly just priming the pump. For what are the things that.
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:23.000
Tend, to.
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.000
Lead, to.
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:30.000
Um polarization, or debates, or arguments where your.
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:33.000
Able to go. I wonder.
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:36.000
Is it? Is that what I meant.
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.000
Is that what she meant.
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:45.000
And so that is setting up for the inside approach to say, What are you understanding from what she's saying right now?
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:48.000
Instead of what did she? What did what did she say?
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.000
Because if I just pair it back, the words that you used.
00:47:52.000 --> 00:48:00.000
It doesn't mean I understood your meant your meaning. So we're always asking people, what do you mean when you say.
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:01.000
Okay, we.
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:05.000
Okay. And that's just a page that primes people for thinking. Oh, there's a difference between behavior.
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:08.000
And how behaviors interpreted.
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:11.000
Without being all preachy about it.
00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:12.000
Interesting.
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:13.000
Yeah.
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:18.000
No, I think this. And then we've got also our our family in a few homes workbook.
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.000
Yeah.
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:24.000
Is this for what is this workbook for our.
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:25.000
Oh!
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:40.000
That's that's for families whose children are already grown. And they might even be just like grown meaning they're they're actually adults in college or university. But it was really inspired by the work that Carol Hughes and Bruce, Fredenberg, and out of California, did really, looking at the impact of divorce on adult children.
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:41.000
Oh!
00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:44.000
And understanding that there's an entire population of wounded adult children of divorce.
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:45.000
Okay.
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:52.000
So because Carol was early on part of my insight journey, and also with the our family 2 homes workbook.
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.000
I said, I want to create one for couples who think, oh, well, at least the kids are grown.
00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:59.000
And so this one just invites the same couple.
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:06.000
In mediation to also explore that the important relationships that they want to sustain because they're probably gonna have some.
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:10.000
But also helps them have the same kind of engaging dialogue.
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.000
That.
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:18.000
They might not bother to have if they think oh, well, at least we're not having to raise the children anymore.
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:19.000
Okay.
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:21.000
So it really I found that some of our.
00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:29.000
Sort of more are more mature clients who have adult children. They really appreciate that we're spending time helping them.
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:33.000
Figure out their own future, and how they might interact at milestone events, or what they might do.
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.000
Okay.
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:43.000
To. You know what their values are around supporting adult children who, you know, drop out of college. I I don't know, but it's really interesting. There's still so much engagement.
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.000
When people have adult children.
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:46.000
Okay.
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:48.000
If they choose to engage, and this helps them.
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.000
Have that kind of same kind of productive dialogue.
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:53.000
Is there.
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:54.000
Okay.
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.000
So we use whatever point every client of ours gets one of the workbooks.
00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:01.000
Is there a work workbook for people who don't have kids.
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:02.000
Right.
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:03.000
Not yet, and there's been many requests for it, and I'll tell you it's more that I just haven't had time.
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:04.000
Okay.
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:08.000
To create one, because but it would be, you know, or even adding pets into it.
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:09.000
The whole thing is.
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.000
Oh, pets! Pretty good!
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:12.000
Oh!
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:13.000
Many of those pages simply prime the pump for discussion.
00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:17.000
And so, as more and more couples who don't have children together.
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:22.000
Express a real desire to have a meaningful separation process. That isn't just.
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:24.000
Transactional and cutting the deal.
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:28.000
I do. Most of us are just using our family in a few homes, and just apologizing that.
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:31.000
You know, you can ignore the parts that mentioned kids.
00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:32.000
Rcm, mentioned, kids, okay.
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:42.000
Yeah, it's just been quite a journey to be cause we did create a workbook called Designing our future together for couples who were planning their future, and I had my 1st consult with a couple yesterday.
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:44.000
Boy? Did they love the workbook.
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:47.000
And say that workbook again is said. It said, what.
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:48.000
What's.
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:49.000
Designing our future together.
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:54.000
Designing our future for together designing our future together.
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:55.000
And that's where couples can hear.
00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.000
Yeah. So it's the same kind of exercises, only pitched towards a couple that are planning to be together.
00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:01.000
Okay.
00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:02.000
Okay.
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:03.000
Amazing.
00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:04.000
Amazing.
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:07.000
I? Well, I know we had so many clients using our family in 2 homes.
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:13.000
And a few homes that said, Well, if we've done this workbook, you know, 5 years ago we might. We might not have broken up.
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:14.000
And.
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:16.000
We decided. Let's make one for people who want to stay together.
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:24.000
And see folks listeners. This is why Jacinta is an innovator cause she created these workbooks.
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:25.000
Yeah, I did.
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:28.000
She created these, it came out of her brain. It is amazing.
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:29.000
Um.
00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:30.000
She sent.
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:35.000
But I never would have created this kind of a workbook that's really engaging if I hadn't studied insight.
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:40.000
I'm not kidding. I would have been such a know it all. I would have been preaching, and it would have.
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:44.000
It would stick, stay on someone's shelf.
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:54.000
I, yeah, I'm just. I'm I'm so thankful that you created these workbooks to take what you learned from insight, mediation, and really apply it.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:56.000
Um.
00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:02.000
Especially for us, as professionals, to really help people navigate what is the most difficult time in their lives?
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:03.000
Yeah.
00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:04.000
Yeah.
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.000
And we I mean we care so much.
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:12.000
Uh, this is one way of expressing that care, because I can tell you that my clients.
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:14.000
Really feel respected and supported.
00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:15.000
Yeah.
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:16.000
Because we're like, I'm like, this is for you, man.
00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:17.000
Um.
00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:20.000
And and and when I say man.
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:21.000
Uh our clients.
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:24.000
Male female, whatever gender they're all.
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:33.000
At different levels of emotional sharing. They're all appreciative of that gift, that is, hey? I want to help you be most prepared.
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:37.000
For the work that you're going to do with with me, or with our team, or with whatever it is.
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:38.000
And they.
00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:45.000
All ages I had. I'm I can think of so many examples, all ages. It just really helps them ground themselves.
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:46.000
You know other other.
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:47.000
And supports them.
00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:58.000
I have a question. So now that you're you're using, you know that this is the method in using the workbook. Do you find.
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:00.000
Yeah.
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:02.000
Yeah.
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:03.000
In.
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:04.000
That the mediation sessions are are taking a lot shorter to get resolved like, instead of taking maybe 5 or maybe 10 sessions. You're gaining it done in 5.
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:13.000
Without exception, in collaboration and in mediation.
00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:14.000
Okay.
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:19.000
Partly it's because I know so much more about the clients, and they've discovered so much more about themselves individually, that even if it's too early in their process to get to that sort of.
00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:22.000
You know that lovely sense of okay? Well, we're doing this.
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:23.000
Right.
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:30.000
They, I'm able to be more productive in managing their disagreements or conflicts, because I know so much more about them.
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:33.000
And they discovered things about themselves and their pattern.
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:39.000
So I'm just more productive. I know we save at least one joint session.
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:40.000
It's 1 choice.
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.000
At least one joint session, and we go further without it, feeling like a nudge or a push.
00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:48.000
I can say that with absolute experience and authority.
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:50.000
So how many sessions are we talking about?
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:55.000
Well in in. I'm gonna just say this. Of course every family Laura says it depends.
00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:56.000
It depends.
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:00.000
So you got you got moderate conflict, moderate complexity.
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:01.000
Probably 4 sessions.
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:03.000
We're about high conflict, high complexity.
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:04.000
The conflict.
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:06.000
What happens for me is that.
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:11.000
We turn it into a different kind of mediation. When.
00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:15.000
One or both of the parties truly can't gain insight.
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:18.000
Okay. So if you've got someone who really is never gonna.
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:21.000
Be able to shift or defend and argue.
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:25.000
Okay.
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:26.000
Okay.
00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:36.000
Then I used to waste my time still trying to get them to problem solve. And now what I'll do is I'll either build a collaborative team, so that I'm the mediator and the collaborative team begins to engage or um, I begin to use more individual.
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:43.000
I I guess you'd call it Shuttle, but I would just not bring them into the room as much now that is rare. But I've recently just had that experience.
00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:44.000
So that's rare.
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:45.000
Um. We couldn't build a team.
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:46.000
Okay.
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:47.000
For a few different reasons.
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:48.000
Okay.
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:50.000
And so in the end they do have their agreement.
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:52.000
Um on the parenting piece only.
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:53.000
And.
00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:58.000
It's done, but they're not. They don't love each other like it's not. It wasn't pretty.
00:54:58.000 --> 00:54:59.000
So.
00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:00.000
So I do want to say that that.
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:01.000
Okay.
00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:04.000
I use insight with everything, including decisions.
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:06.000
Around, noticing behaviors.
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:09.000
Right defending high conflict, behaviors.
00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:10.000
Right.
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:12.000
I will notice if the pattern doesn't shift.
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:13.000
Okay.
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:17.000
If the pattern doesn't shift, it may be that someone isn't well enough to shift.
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:19.000
Oh!
00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:24.000
But equally we'll often see people with high conflict behaviors. They behave in these ways.
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.000
If they can gain insights.
00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:30.000
Then you know that they're actually just someone who's really reacting to something really difficult.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.000
They're not high conflict people.
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:35.000
And they'll you'll notice that their shifts.
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:39.000
Allow them to participate.
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:40.000
I don't.
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:49.000
So just how? So? If I'm if I'm a client and I'm like, how do I? How do I hire an insight mediator? How do I do this? What? How do they do it? How do they.
00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:50.000
Where's it? Go?
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:54.000
Oh, wow! I can't wait. I can't wait till we have like a global list, because I'm gonna say that.
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:55.000
Certainly.
00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:01.000
In in Washington State. There's there's.
00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:02.000
Right.
00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:03.000
6 of you, and soon to be more as you embark on this.
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:06.000
But I'll say this one way to identify.
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:08.000
Ah!
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:11.000
Divorce professionals who want to work with.
00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:19.000
Tools that will allow clients to discover and learn and be supported on their own would be, look for people who are using our family in 2 homes.
00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:20.000
Okay.
00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:25.000
Right like that, like someone who's who's who's carved out of practice that wants to provide this support to clients.
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:27.000
We'll have Will no insight. It's cause.
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:29.000
People who don't know insight.
00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:34.000
Don't see the value in helping clients discover stuff, cause we don't understand that that's valuable.
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:41.000
People who know insight go like anything I can do to help this client discover something and support them in that way.
00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:44.000
That's just gonna be a different experience.
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:45.000
Because of that.
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:51.000
And Jacinta for those professionals out there who are say, How sign me up? How do we.
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:52.000
No, you know.
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.000
Like mediator. How do they.
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.000
How do they sign up?
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:56.000
Where did they?
00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:06.000
Yeah, okay, well, I, in fact, I'm excited because we're we're finally gonna have a single website with all the things that I do, instead of having 5, I mean, we'll still have a bunch of websites. But.
00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:09.000
But the one website is just@aglance.ca.
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:14.000
And it's it will list all the trainings that I'm giving, including starting in September 18.th
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.000
In.
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:21.000
Here and September 19th down under. It's time for us to New Zealand as well.
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:23.000
Um.
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:29.000
It's the next curious mediator course, which is the insight mediation training. This one's 10 consecutive weeks.
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:34.000
And what you're also joining is a community of inside practitioners who are super keen.
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:36.000
To keep learning.
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:45.000
I mean, it's the lifelong learning part of insight that kept me going kept me feeling satisfied. Going to work. And that's what I really want to bring to our community.
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:48.000
Cause. Many of us are getting tired.
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:55.000
Okay. So Jacinta Galand at.ca, or say, Google, the curious mediator. Then the training.
00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:56.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:57.000
Okay.
00:57:57.000 --> 00:58:00.000
Yeah, Google, my name, and you'll find it. Or, Yeah.
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:01.000
Yeah.
00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:06.000
Put me in the show notes. But this next curious mediator I mean, this is the 1st time we're offering it twice in one year.
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:07.000
And we already have full.
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:08.000
So.
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:09.000
Sign up folks.
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:12.000
I know it's September. It's starting.
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:13.000
Starting September 18, th yeah.
00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:14.000
Yeah, I'm so excited. Um.
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:16.000
I'm excited for you.
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:30.000
Uh before, Jacinta. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts about insight, mediation, and thank you again, for there are family in 2 homes, and our family in a few home workbooks that you created.
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:31.000
Yeah.
00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:36.000
And also that that newest workbook for people that are getting married. It's called again our family.
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:52.000
Now it's called designing our future together.
00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:53.000
Oh, yeah.
00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:57.000
Designing our future together. And just since again, thank you so much for your time on coming on today and talking about this, this new, exciting and innovative way for people to resolve their interpersonal conflict, and a lot a lot more long, lasting, and durable to the traditional mediation.
00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:59.000
Uh.
00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:00.000
What they.
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:01.000
Thanks. I really appreciate your enthusiasm for it. It's special.
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:10.000
And any you know, any last words that you wanted to say about like insight, mediation, or our family in 2 homes that we didn't already cover.
00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:11.000
Well.
00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:12.000
Only that.
00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:16.000
If you're wondering.
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:21.000
People would bother to engage in something like this.
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:22.000
I can just say that.
00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:24.000
That they do.
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:29.000
When people are going through a rough time, and you offer them a support that is engaging.
00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:30.000
They do it.
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:33.000
Rather than a telling self-help book.
00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:36.000
They might not do it, cause it feels like they have to change who they are.
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.000
This is about be. Who you are.
00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:43.000
Discovered and be better so we can really respect the client's autonomy.
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:53.000
And their own agency, so that they can find really design their future separate or together, in a way that will really resonate for them.
00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:58.000
Yeah, I love that. I I personally, if I were going through divorce I would want that type of support.
00:59:58.000 --> 00:59:59.000
Yeah.
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And be able to kind of.
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:01.000
I think that's the future.
01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:03.000
Figure this out myself. Um.
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:12.000
What is before we sign off, I'd like to end with like a fun fact. What's a fun fact that someone does not know about you just from looking at you, or.
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:13.000
Would it know?
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:18.000
Oh, okay, well, I mean, I I have to quickly say I'm the 5th of 6 kids.
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:20.000
Born in 5 and a half years.
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And when I was a baby I had 4 older brothers, and everyone was under the age of 3. So I come to peacemaking very naturally.
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:29.000
I do?
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:32.000
Oh, my gosh! 4 older brothers.
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:38.000
Yeah. And yeah, luckily they hit. Mom and Dad went, stayed on and had one more. So I have a sister.
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:41.000
Oh, okay. And you said you, what was that? Like? 1 1 after the other.
01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:46.000
Yeah, like they were. They were twins. And then, like every year. So so we have this.
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:57.000
Big family. And uh, we all had kids at the same time. So all of our kids are the same ages. And and so it's it's interesting for me that I and I'm so married to the guy that I met when I was 21.
01:00:57.000 --> 01:00:58.000
So.
01:00:58.000 --> 01:00:59.000
Wow!
01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:00.000
Yeah.
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:01.000
Looking.
01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:02.000
And divorce is my day job.
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:09.000
Oh, my goodness, that's me! Uh! That's amazing. Um congratulations! Well, so how long have you and your husband been married? Then?
01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:11.000
Like 30.
01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:12.000
4 years.
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:13.000
34 years. Wow!
01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:15.000
Our anniversary is next week. I don't even know.
01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:17.000
Your anniversary is next week.
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:18.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:19.000
Yeah.
01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:20.000
So.
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:21.000
Yeah.
01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:22.000
Oh, well, uh! Happy anniversary.
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:26.000
Thanks a lot I love bringing. I love believing in love.
01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:27.000
Yeah.
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:32.000
And supporting the fact that people, when they separate, they still have to exist in a world where they need to have some love.
01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:46.000
Well again. Thank you so much, Jacinta, for coming on the Akio podcast today. And again, you can find her. I just sent a galant. Ca, and we will have the information in up on our.
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.000
Up on um our shell notes.
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:51.000
And on Youtube, um and.
01:01:51.000 --> 01:02:02.000
For those of you. Again, thank you for listening to. And another episode of Okano podcast wherein we talk about anything and everything that intersects in the areas of family law and divorce.
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:05.000
And I'm Lonnie Aciana. Until then. Um.
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Be well.
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:08.000
Thank you again. Justin was much fun.
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:10.000
Thanks.
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.000
Okay, cut. Thank you, Jacinta. I know you have to go to your spin class.
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:19.000
Ah! But my heart is there for you!