The Akiona Law Podcast: Parenting Plan Series with Meg Gluckman Part 1

In this episode of the Akiona Law Podcast,  join Ululani “Lani” Akiona, as she kicks off a 4-part series on parenting plans with Meg Gluckman, divorce and co-parenting coach and host of “Welcome to the Other Side” podcast. In this first episode, we break down residential schedules: what influences them, how they're built, and how to create stability for your children.

Update 8/19/2025: Since the recording of that podcast, Washington courts have released a new parenting plan form.

Specifically, the section we referred to as "Section 14. Other" in the podcast is now designated as “Section 10. Other” in the court’s new parenting plan form.

Transcript

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Oh. Thank you. There we go. Here's a countdown.

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There we go.

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Five, four, three. Two and one. Hello, welcome to another episode of the Arciona Law Podcast.

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We're in, we talk about anything and everything that intersects in the areas of family law, divorce.

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I am Ululani Akiona. And we have with us special guest, Meg. Meg is a divorced and co-parenting coach and Host of Welcome to the Other Side podcast.

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Naics specializes in supporting parents, whether they have toddlers, tweens. Or 30 something and navigating challenging life transitions with grace and resilience. And what we are doing with meg is diving into a multi-part series about creating parenting plans And the different parts that go into creating parenting plans such as

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Creating the residential schedule or the custodial schedule, decision making and how do you resolve conflicts.

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And the last part that we're going to get into is the parenting plan in Washington has section 14, which we call the other provisions or the miscellaneous sections.

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Thank you, Lonnie. I'm so glad to be here. Good to see you.

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Welcome, Meg. Yay! Me too. And I'm so glad you're here and I'm so excited that we get to dive into this multi-part episode about what goes into creating a parenting plan.

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You know, just really briefly before we're going to get into that Did I leave anything out into your intro? What else do you want to tell people about you?

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Okay.

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I think that was wonderful. I love working with parents who are you know, either just thinking about divorce or they're at the beginning stages. Maybe they've gone through their separation and they're just starting to get into figuring out which process they're going to leave, which is something we talked about

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Last episode that I was on, which process they're going to use to navigate their divorce.

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But I'm so glad we're talking about this because it's really the number one thing that parents come in wanting to talk about is How do we make a parenting plan? How do we make these decisions?

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They're really concerned about what is the schedule going to look like?

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And so I'm glad we get the chance to talk about it.

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Me too. So let's go ahead and dive right in. Let's go ahead and talk about the schedule. So in Washington, we call it the residential schedule.

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And the residential schedule is kind of just defined as which we have the primary residential parent, which is the parent who the child primarily resides with.

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Also known as a custodial parent for purposes of federal and maybe state statutes.

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But in terms of the parenting plan, it's called the residential parent And then we have the schedule for what it looks like when the child isn't residing with the primary residential parent. So that's just a lot of words.

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It is. Yeah.

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So let's talk about it. So we'll talk about the residential schedule Or the, where does the child live during the week?

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Thank you.

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That's it, right? And that's exactly how I describe it. To parents which is The residential schedule is really to make it clear to everyone, to both of the parents, but then to the state if need be, right?

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Exactly where the child should be. Any hour of the day, any day of the year. It's going to be super clear.

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Yeah.

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Who is the parent who's on, I use quotation marks, right? Who's responsible for the kid?

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Yeah.

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And so it's super comprehensive. We don't leave any days out of it.

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We cover everything. And I like to think of it in a few different chunks to it.

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Mm-hmm.

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There's kind of what the standard schedule is. So on a regular quote unquote week of the year Where is the child going to be? Then we tend to have a holiday schedule and we can talk about how we come up with that.

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Uh-huh.

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And then maybe there's a vacation. Piece to it as well, right?

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Yeah. The vacation piece.

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Yeah. And the schedules that I have seen, and I'm so curious to hear about some of the schedules you've seen too, Lonnie.

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Can be very, very different depending on the age of the kids.

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Right.

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Where both parents live. The number of kids in a family, right? All of these kind of things can really factor in to determining what's the best possible schedule.

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That we want to create for this family. And just to step back for a second, I think it's so important as parents come into this process of creating the residential schedule that we really, really, really.

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Try to center the kids. During this process, right?

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Okay. What does that mean? Because that sounds kind of woo-woo.

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Yeah, yeah. It really means like how, how can we make some choices that focus on what's going to be the most supportive For the kiddos and what gets them kind of the relationships that we really want them to have with both parents.

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Okay. Yeah.

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Okay, so I'll give you one example. This is a very specific example, but it's something that I talk about with like So many of my clients christmas Let's talk about Christmas, okay?

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Okay.

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So folks will often come in and say, well, we'll just split it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right? We'll just split Christmas or Thanksgiving in half. So, you know, the morning goes to someone, the afternoon goes to someone else, right?

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And so I take them into like the brain or the experience of their child.

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Yes.

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Right. Which is like I wake up Christmas morning and it's so much fun, right? I'm so present with the people in the household that I woke up with.

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And we're doing our thing. And then suddenly I find out, oh, you got 10 minutes left and then you're going to the other house.

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Right.

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If you're like in the flow of it, you're like having so much fun, right? And now you have to stop what you're doing.

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And go to the other house. And then when you get to the other house.

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You have to generate all this enthusiasm again to do all the same stuff again maybe and get into the same enjoyment Over there, right? As opposed to having the chance to just like fully enjoy where you're at and the people you're with.

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And then on another day. You know have that enjoyment.

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At another place, right? So that's one example of If we center the child.

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What would they most? Enjoy.

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Okay.

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Okay, so let me Okay, my brain is, let me try and see if I can… My brain is swirling right now and I'm trying to like pick a question.

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Out of my head because there's just so many thoughts that are just swirling around The first thing that comes to my mind is that it really does depend on the age of the child as well because Right. So let's just so let's say we have, okay, so this, I'm just going to say it out there.

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Absolutely.

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All right. I'm a mom. Let's pretend I have my kids are older. They're 17 and 19. I've got a junior in high school and a freshman in college.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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So let's say I'm dealing with younger kids. Let's say I'm dealing with six and an eight year old.

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And as a mom, I'm going to be like, but hey, wait a minute. Why can't we split up Christmas Day? Why can't it be like, you know, one year dad has from Christmas Eve.

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Until Christmas morning at 12 noon. So then he gets Christmas Eve and Christmas morning, open up presents with kids in the morning and then I have the rest of Christmas afternoon, maybe until the rest of the break, right? So I guess I'm talking about when you have the Christmas winter break schedule and you split it up

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Yeah.

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With one parent gets the first half of the first half of the break When the kids are released from school until 12 p.m. Christmas Day, and the other parent gets a second half of the break from 12 p.m. Christmas Day to either Sunday before school resumes at 6 p.m. Or drop off at school.

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And then they switch the following year because usually the parent who has a first half of the break, it's a shorter amount of time.

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Is that what we're talking about? You're talking about like they split the actual holiday itself.

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I'm talking, yeah, I'm talking about like splitting the actual day, that piece of it, right?

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Okay. Okay.

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Yeah. Hey, bright.

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And I just want to point out something very interesting. Okay. And this is this is You used language that we commonly use, right? Parent A gets this half, parent B gets this half, right?

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All right.

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But just in thinking about how we even phrase that, right?

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Uh-huh. Great. Yes.

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Parent A gets this. Parent B gets this versus What do we want to create?

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For their kids there like what are the What's the experience for the kids?

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That we want to have. So that's just like, it's just a a slightly different perspective that we can bring to it.

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What is their experience that you want to help create versus what does parent a deserve and what does parent b deserve, right?

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Yeah. Yeah. Parents. Parent rights.

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So… Right.

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We did.

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We jumped into that one particular example there right but Coming back to like really what you know there's there's what i think might be fair between the parents. And then there's also What is going to be best for the kids, right?

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Okay.

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Here's another example. We talk a lot about a lot the ages and stages that our kids are at, right?

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The parenting plan that you have for a newborn or a two-year-old is going to be so different than what you have for a teenager.

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Uh-huh.

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Yes.

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Right. And this is because of like what their needs are, right? What their developmental needs are So, um.

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Okay.

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We try not to… to kind of do kind of blanketed parenting plan. And I actually, you know, some of my mentors will actually step away if they have parents that are you know really gung ho on getting a week on week off schedule

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Oh. Right. Yeah.

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For a toddler or a newborn. They'll say, I'm not touching that, right? Like they don't want to do that because developmentally You know, our babies and our toddlers They need secure attachment.

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To their primary parent, right? And so we're very gradual about how we start creating overnights and time away from their primary parent.

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So that's one piece that is really important to talk about.

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As we're creating those residential schedules.

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So let's back up for a bit because, man, we just dived into it at first.

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Yeah.

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So let's do this. Let's do this scenario. So let's say i'm i'm I'm getting divorced. I have kids You know, I'm a new client. I come to you and I say, hey, Meg, I need help.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yep. Sure.

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In creating this parenting plan residential schedule like how do you like, I guess what's like, walk us through this like what's the first thing that you would say, okay, well, what do you want to focus i don't know.

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Right. Yeah. So the first thing I would say, okay, what are the ages of the kids?

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Okay.

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Okay.

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That's going to be the most important starting point. Right. Do both parents Like, where do both parents live That's very important. If you have one parent that lives out of state or even one that lives You know, more than two hours away

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That's going to impact schools and so forth, right? Like being able to get to school so that's That's something to consider. And then I start with kind of like where, what are you thinking So many times folks have come in and they've already separated.

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Right. Okay. Okay.

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And so they've been using some sort of schedule And so we start with, okay, how is that working? What's working well? What's not working well?

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What do you, you know, what do you want to do?

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Okay.

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Okay. Yeah.

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Like differently than what you're already doing. And then we start mapping it out, right? So we look at a calendar and we say, okay, so during the school year, if they're school-aged kids This is what we're feeling like, you know, would work well. What do we think about for the summertime?

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Are we going to treat that differently? Are we going to treat that the same?

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And then once we establish that, then we can go and talk about the holidays and what holidays are important to you.

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What holidays are important to your spouse? And like you were saying with the Christmas example, how do we alternate things So it feels fair.

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As well, right?

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So let's say, let's say I have kids and they're 14 and 16.

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And my spouse and I live, you know, live within the kid's same school district.

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Yeah.

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So then what what are something that you would, what are some tools and techniques that you would used to help me kind of focus in on what something a schedule should look like.

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Right.

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Yeah. So if the goal is 50 50 on the residential schedule, which I'll say the vast majority of my cases are not not all cases are, but a lot of folks that are coming through and doing mediation or collaborative divorces.

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Okay.

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I would say a very high percentage are 50 50. And so we talk about different patterns that you can use. There's a 3-4-4-3.

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Which is like three days and then four days and three uh Sorry, four days, three days and four days.

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I always like talking them through without drawing them. I use my whiteboard a lot.

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To draw them out. But there's different kind of standard combinations that you can do that alternate say they alternate Saturday night.

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So one week a parent gets Saturday night plus their other three regular nights and then another week, the other parent gets Saturday nights

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Well, let me ask you this. Okay, so like three days and four days, as an example, would that be one parent has Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, which is three days And then the other parent has Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

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And then you rotate it, right? Okay.

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Routines. Okay.

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Yeah, so that's one. So in that example, you would be rotating Sunday night the way that you counted that out right so and and we really go by nights. We don't go by days. So you're really thinking about where the kiddo is spending the night. So that's a great example.

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Let me ask you. Okay, go ahead.

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Yep. Mm-hmm. The other thing for the ages that you were talking about who are more teenagers, sometimes we do start looking at a week on, week off schedule.

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Because that works better. They don't have the transition during the middle of the week.

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Okay.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know maybe that's that's easier for them. There's also, I mean, and then there's the exceptions, right? There's the folks who have a different idea of what they want. I know folks that stuck to the same days every single week of the school year.

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So like mom might have… Sunday, Monday, Tuesday nights.

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Okay.

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Dad might have wednesday thursday Friday, Saturday nights during the school year. And then mom had a bigger chunk of time during the summer.

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That kind of balanced things out because of how her schedule worked, you know, and so forth.

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Yes.

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So in terms, and I think this just goes back again into where you have different schedules for younger kids and when you that schedule that you talked about a three, four schedule, the reason why we would maybe do that with younger kids is that that whole attachment with the younger kids

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Mm-hmm.

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You need more that like it's essentially the older kids can go longer periods without the other parent. That's why we can do week on week off. But with the younger kids, you want to keep it in smaller chunks.

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Exactly.

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Right, right. Absolutely. Absolutely.

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Okay. Now, what about this? And I feel like my paralegal likes to use the schedule a lot. I think, and I always get confused about it. I'm like, wait, what?

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

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And I think it's called like the two two four Works like Monday, Tuesday with one parent Wednesday, Thursday with the other parent then it goes Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

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And then Monday. So that's two SLA.

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Monday, Tuesday. So it would probably be, it's probably a two, two, five, five.

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Something like that.

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Is that? What's the beauty?

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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so that's an option too. The beauty of that one is that it um gives you bigger, you know, longer stretches You know, in some places and some people like that because they can do more stuff with their kiddo and

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Yeah.

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And so forth. There's… You know, it really gets to, there's no run one right schedule.

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There's the schedule that really works for your family. I'll tell you.

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Right.

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I had a family who had a family The kiddo was a swimmer.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, you know, dad lived close to where the pool was. So during swim season.

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It was so much easier for that kiddo to wake up at dad's and to be able to get to the pool.

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Okay. Yeah.

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Yeah, it's in the morning. Cool.

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Wow. Yeah.

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Right. They swim before, right? They swim before school And so they literally made a plan and this was a teenager again. So it wasn't like they were trying to make a plan for you know, 18 years, they were literally making a plan for two years at this point.

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Yeah.

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But they made it based on that. Right. Based on the sports schedule and so forth.

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So, yeah. It's awesome, right?

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I love that. I like that.

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Another piece to think about is What's the role of extended family or what's the role of travel and adventure, you know, in your life if that is important to you um like you know i i've had families who extended family lives abroad, right? And they want to be able to go visit them every summer.

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My gosh. Right.

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Then it's going to be important that you have at least a two week block, maybe even longer to be able to do that, right? And so again, we're going to consider the ages and stages of the kiddos But you get to design it.

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Too, right?

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Uh-huh. So it almost sounds like

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It sounds because because of the Okay, how do I say this?

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When you have a parenting plan that you talked about that really kind of consider the needs of the child first, like you gave that example of creating the schedule that really accommodated the child being in swimming.

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Mm-hmm.

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It really sounds like for this to work successfully, there needs to be either like an uncontested case as we typically experience in mediation or collaborative divorce cases.

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Uh huh.

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Do you have sometimes though where you have those outliers where clients say, hey, you know, I'm in a high conflict divorce case right now and I really need help.

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Creating a parenting plan Maybe it's more with the idea of having firm boundaries established.

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Hmm.

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What's your experience with that?

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Well, I mean… In a high conflict case and you are probably going to know much more about this, Lonnie, than I do, right? There's the parenting plan that you propose that you want But in the end, if you can't reach agreement.

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Somebody else is going to make the decision. For your family about your family about being a judge or an arbiter.

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Right.

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So I would say boundaries are an interesting thing because

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Whatever is written down on a parenting plan isn't necessarily what somebody is going to follow through on.

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:06.000

And this can come up in our conversation later when we talk about conflict resolution, right?

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.000

Oh, right.

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:24.000

Even if I mean… A week on week off schedule is no more boundaried.

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.000

True.

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:35.000

Than a 225. Schedule, right? They're just Where's the kid at any at any given time, right? So it's more about what happens when somebody happens when somebody doesn't adhere to the parenting plan.

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.000

That's where the tension comes up and that's where where the issues come up, right?

00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:57.000

Comes from. And then do people come and then do people what you said specifically, when people don't follow this custodial residential schedule and the tension arises, do people come to you for help in those types of situations.

00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:58.000

Okay.

00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:01.000

Yeah, yeah. Right. And there's no cookie cutter response to dealing with that either, right?

00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:05.000

Right.

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:17.000

Sometimes… Sometimes what I end up doing is helping the parent Okay, let's give an example.

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:22.000

Mom is supposed to pick up the kiddo on Friday and have them through the weekend.

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:28.000

And she doesn't. Right. And she doesn't show up.

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.000

And so it's dad, right?

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:38.000

Wait a minute. Wait, let me interrupt. Did mom in the scenario, did she give dad notice or does she just not show up?

00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:39.000

Okay. Okay.

00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:46.000

Either way. Let's just say it's either way. Either way, he had assumed that she was going to show up and she didn't.

00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:53.000

Okay. Okay.

00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:54.000

Okay.

00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:02.000

Right. And so if this is an ongoing pattern, right, then some of the coaching for him is really around You know, how to talk to the kids about this because if they're about if they're expecting mom to show up and she doesn't.

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:08.000

Oh.

00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:17.000

What are we going to do? How do we support them With that change of plans and that probably disappointment Maybe it shows up.

00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:18.000

Yeah.

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:29.000

And then also coaching on if he really needs that time, like he's planning to work You know, during that time or or something like that.

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:35.000

How do we get him the support that he needs to make sure that he's able to do what he needs to do.

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:42.000

And then there's the conversation about Well, what do you want to do that she's not following the parenting plan?

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:46.000

Like, is there legal recourse that you want to go through?

00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:49.000

And some people do and some people don't.

00:24:49.000 --> 00:25:01.000

And I would think that you would in a way also kind of what does it mean if you go down this path of going to the court?

00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:02.000

Right.

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:09.000

Yeah. And I don't give any legal advice about what that even could look like, but I encourage them to talk to an attorney to to get a sense of what that process might look like.

00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:14.000

What different steps? Might be involved and so forth.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:15.000

Yeah.

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:33.000

And in terms of in terms of your piece, the attorney would give them that legal advice. But with you, it's just kind of maybe I would think you would be kind of helping the client to outline what are your big picture goals here? What are you trying to achieve?

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:34.000

And is in a way worth the time, the energy, the money, the expense to achieve that big picture goal?

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:39.000

Yeah.

00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:43.000

Yeah, absolutely. And what do you have control over? Right? Yeah, we don't have control that she didn't show up.

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:47.000

Okay.

00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:51.000

But you have control over how you support the kids through this.

00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:56.000

And you have control over how you create backup systems for yourself.

00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.000

If this seems like it's a a pattern.

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:01.000

Okay.

00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:02.000

Yeah.

00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:09.000

When people come to you and they're asking for help or guidance or maybe even like brainstorming In terms of a residential schedule.

00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.000

Yeah.

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:26.000

Do you kind of specifically had them maybe look, you know, well, here are the pros and cons if you go for like one week on, one week off the uh three, three, four, maybe every other weekend.

00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:27.000

Okay.

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:32.000

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One thing we'll talk about is Pros and cons for their kids.

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:33.000

Right. So, okay. So given that you know your kids best and you know what their personalities are.

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:38.000

Okay. Okay.

00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:54.000

Right. Do you have a sense that transitioning back and forth twice a week is going to be good for them or is that going to create more stress And they're at an age where they would be better off with a week on week off schedule

00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:55.000

Okay.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:07.000

Another one I really like to say is like Think about how easy this is going to be for your kiddo to understand.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:08.000

Right.

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:14.000

And to make plans around. So if you have a very complicated schedule that has a lot of changes to it.

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:19.000

They can't necessarily predict Where am I going to be?

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:20.000

Right.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:31.000

You know, in two weeks to make these plans with a friend Right. And so we want them to be able to Maybe it still requires looking at a a Google calendar somewhere or looking at a paper calendar, you know, that's hung up in your kitchen. But we want them to be able to see

00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:37.000

Yeah. Yeah.

00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:43.000

Oh, I know where I'll be and I can… I can make plans because of that.

00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:44.000

Or I know which parent to ask. To make plans.

00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:57.000

I'm going to just… I'm going to throw it out right here, folks. If you're doing something like a frequent rotating schedule, like a 224, like put it on a calendar on the fridge for the kids to see.

00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.000

So they can follow because it's really hard to keep track.

00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:00.000

Yes. Yeah.

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:12.000

Yeah, well, and What I do like about like the 2255 or 3443 Is if there are days that they know, okay, every Monday and Tuesday, I'm always with mom.

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:17.000

Right. Yeah.

00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:18.000

Okay. That's what I like.

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.000

Every Wednesday, Thursday, I'm always with dad. And what changes is just Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or, you know, whatever it is.

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:23.000

Yeah, right? So that's, you know, that's it.

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:27.000

That's a good one.

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:33.000

But I do think that especially high school aged kids are able to comprehend, for most part not doesn't fit everybody A week on, week off.

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:43.000

Most part.

00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:44.000

That's a good one. That is a good one.

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:47.000

And the simplicity of that, they can count out how many weeks until whatever they're going to do and they'll know they're going to be with so Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:54.000

And I guess, let me just with the two two the two two three right you got monday tuesday with one parent.

00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:01.000

Thursday, Friday with another parent And then the Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, then the parents are essentially rotating the weekends.

00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:05.000

Yeah. So it turns into a five day stretch. Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:12.000

Okay, five days. Oh, yes. That turns into a five-day stretch.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:13.000

There you go. That's, yeah.

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:21.000

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I think it really is helpful to folks when you're starting to think about this to actually really write it out, like lay it out on a calendar so you can see what it'll look like.

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:25.000

Yes. Oh, yeah.

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:36.000

Yeah. And the predictability of it You know, I know a lot of folks when they first separate They're communicating a lot.

00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:42.000

Right. And they're just kind of piecemealing together some sort of schedule. And it might be different every single hodgepodging it. That's right.

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:46.000

Podging it.

00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:47.000

Yeah.

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:55.000

It's different every single week. Getting to a predictable schedule is so helpful for your kids. It creates that stability for them.

00:29:55.000 --> 00:30:07.000

But it is so helpful for you too. Like you will know when you're on as a parent and when you have some off time and it's Really, really helpful. Not to say that it's easy.

00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:17.000

Because especially like if you've been the stay-at-home parent And now you're having time where you don't have your kids. There's a lot of grief.

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000

Oh my gosh. Tons of grief.

00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:30.000

That tends to come up for folks around that. And it's important to know like it's heartache And it's really hard and it will get easier.

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:37.000

It will get easier. And on the flip side. If you haven't been responsible for the kids.

00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:52.000

Especially like during the week, maybe you've been the the you know working parent outside of the home and suddenly you have to be there at pickup or you have to deal with sports or whatever like That can be overwhelming as well.

00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:03.000

And you will have an adjustment. Curve to it, but… you will also get it.

00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:04.000

Yeah.

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:21.000

You know, I'm going to lay myself out there and be vulnerable, but as you know, as Meg knows, because Meg is my friend and we talk, I went through, well, I'm going through separation and I moved out of our family home in August of 2024 and the grief that I went through was not so much grieving this

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:32.000

The ending of this 25-year relationship, 26-year relationship, but what hurt me and what gave me the most grief and heartache was the loss of time.

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:33.000

Yeah.

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:48.000

With especially our youngest who was still in high school, the oldest being in college. Okay, yeah, he's in college. You know, that's fine. That's fine but the grief and the heartache of not being able to see your kids every day like that's what

00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.000

Truly caused me so much heartache and pain.

00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:52.000

Yeah.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:53.000

Yeah, yeah.

00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:01.000

So it is. It's a really tough thing. And of course, my situation, it was made even more difficult by some other factors I don't want to get into right now but

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:10.000

No, right, right. Yeah, and I've had lots of folks say to me that like when the kiddos go to the other parent's house.

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:19.000

They just walk around their house, right? And they see evidence of their kids and everything just makes them feel so sad, right?

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:20.000

Mm-hmm.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:30.000

That they're not with their kids. Um it's yeah it's really intense. And you know what It should be.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:38.000

It should be. You were well attached to your kids. You're still well attached to your kids, but like there's been such an upheaval, right?

00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:52.000

Right.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.000

Wow.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:02.000

One of my favorite teen whisperers is Dr. Lisa demore She's a psychologist. She's amazing. All things teen related but What she says is that good mental health is not about staying happy and positive all the time.

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:07.000

But it's about our reactions to things, our emotions not matching what is actually going on in our lives.

00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:12.000

Uh-huh.

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:13.000

Okay.

00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:16.000

Right. Like it's an appropriate reaction to what is going on in our life. So if you are heartbroken and you are sad.

00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:20.000

Wow.

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:25.000

And you are missing your kids. When they are over at the other parent's house.

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.000

That's really appropriate. And it hurts but it hurts It's actually not wrong.

00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:33.000

Yeah. Oh, that makes sense because that's what happens when you have a secure attachment.

00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:38.000

Yeah. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:41.000

And as someone who went through it myself and who has helped so many people go through it.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:47.000

Yeah.

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:48.000

It will evolve. True.

00:33:48.000 --> 00:34:07.000

Like it will evolve. And you will not feel that way all the time. And I will tell you, there was a point when I noticed that instead of all of their stuff all over the floor or their shoes by the door or whatever, making me sad.

00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:08.000

Yeah.

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:19.000

It actually just like I got this trigger of feeling love For my kids instead. And it was just like this wave of love that would flash through me when I picked up their dirty laundry from the bathroom floor.

00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:20.000

So it will shift. It will shift. Yeah.

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.000

I'm on the patent floor.

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:34.000

Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:35.000

It really is.

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:46.000

It does. It does. It is shifting and You're right. Grief is an appropriate response so You know, one thing interesting that I found, because my kid is older and we were doing a week on week off parenting plan because it just makes sense. It's easier for him but

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:51.000

I always thought of the week on a week off with it starting on Sunday to Sunday.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:35:02.000

An interestingly enough, I followed a friend who made her parenting week on week off begin on Friday after school.

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:08.000

In my head, I was like. I'm doing it because, so let's say you know you have a Monday holiday and if you know my kid gets done early with school on Friday and I said, well, technically.

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:13.000

Yeah.

00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:18.000

After Friday, we could be gone and go somewhere for the three-day holiday weekend. And then we're back on Monday and then he goes to his dad's house.

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:29.000

Yeah.

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:30.000

Mm-hmm.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:41.000

And when I asked my friend about it, is that why you did your parenting plan week on, week off of Friday? And she said, no, I did it because I think she said she read somewhere that if you do the transition on a weekend, it's easier for your kid to get used to.

00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.000

Rather than having to do it on the Sunday night and then your kids to go to school the next morning.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:47.000

Hmm.

00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:48.000

Yeah.

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:54.000

And I'm like, how could I have been doing family law for this long and not think about it that way?

00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:55.000

So.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:07.000

Yeah, yeah, that's a great observation. And I think, I mean, I… I feel like every single person I work with has a different time and a different day that they're transition.

00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:12.000

Like everybody gets to figure out what really works for them.

00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:16.000

You know we for my kiddos, they transition at noon On Sundays, like that's that's when we do it.

00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.000

Oh. Oh. Oh, okay.

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.000

And I love that time. But other people, yeah.

00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.000

Loved it? Okay.

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:33.000

Choose choose different things, especially different work schedules right Sometimes that's bad factors then but I love that you figured that out, Lonnie. That's great.

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:41.000

And her kids. Her kid is younger. I think her kid is, I don't know, her kid is huge, but I think he's in fifth or sixth grade.

00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:52.000

And so I was a little bit surprised too. But I guess it makes sense for a younger kid if they're going to do week on, week on to help him transition a little bit more.

00:36:52.000 --> 00:37:06.000

But i um I think at the end of the day, it just goes to what you said, you know, what you really have to examine what makes sense. There is no right or wrong schedule is what we're trying to say, folks.

00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.000

Yeah. There's

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.000

Yeah. Yeah. There's no right or wrong. And just coming back to what we were talking about a little bit with the really young kiddos, right?

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.000

Yeah. On kids?

00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:24.000

Is that you don't have to make a schedule that you're going to stick to for all 18 years, right?

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:38.000

Oftentimes what I'll see with someone if someone If they do have a really young You know, is that they'll make a plan And it can change every single year a little bit Up till they start going into school, you know, up till they're in

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:44.000

Okay.

00:37:44.000 --> 00:38:01.000

Kindergarten or first grade. And then they might actually put into their plan, they're going to meet, the parents are going to meet and decide on the new schedule at that point. There's a lot of information too that we just don't know about a kiddo when they're a two-year-old.

00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:14.000

So trying to figure out what schedule might work well for them five or six years down the road, we might have some things that we really need to consider.

00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:15.000

That's an option.

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:23.000

You know, that's a really good point. Good point. And I think it just goes back to what you said and just, wait, let me dovetailing off of that There truly is no cookie cutter approach to a right or wrong parenting plan.

00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:28.000

Yeah.

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:29.000

Right.

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:37.000

It's meeting with someone like Meg, an experienced coach that can walk you through the pros and cons of the different schedule.

00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:46.000

Looking at different options. And then go and then Meg, you'll send them off to them your family law divorce lawyer that can help them create the actual parenting plan.

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:58.000

Yep. Yeah, yeah. And I like to just emphasize to everyone, like you can have an amazing relationship with your kid.

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:05.000

You can create an amazing life for yourself no matter what your parenting plan is.

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:06.000

No matter what.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:11.000

That's fabulous.

00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:14.000

Going back to the vacation schedule. Because we talked about the residential schedule.

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:27.000

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:28.000

Yeah.

00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:39.000

I want to go back to the vacation schedule because, again, this kind of comes up where you know you you Can you walk me through, we figured out the residential schedule. Now you're like, okay, Lonnie What are we going to look like in terms of vacation? What are some of the considerations that you would talk to me and helping me and having me figure out a vacation schedule?

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:44.000

Yeah. So let's break it into a couple different pieces, right?

00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:45.000

Yeah.

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:57.000

We have the vacations that are kind of like part of the school calendar So you might have like a spring vacation. There's something around the holiday, you know, the Christmas time, Hanukkah.

00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:58.000

Mm-hmm.

00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:07.000

Those times, right, you're going to first want to figure out which ones are important to which parent. And if folks feel equally about them.

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:21.000

We generally… choose some division. Again, we're still at the thinking in a kind of a 50 50 parenting mindset here We choose some division where we alternate things on different years.

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:29.000

So I feel like one of the most common things is someone gets thanksgiving.

00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:54.000

Week and then somebody gets christmas like there's some there's some alternating there. And then maybe on spring vacation, April vacation One parent gets it on even years, one parent gets it on odd years. I feel like those are kind of the standard. And then summer vacation time

00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.000

It is.

00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:07.000

It's a general free-for-all. Everybody does it differently, okay? I have some folks who say, okay, we're each going to get a week of vacation During the summer and we're going to notify each other.

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:14.000

By, you know, January 1st or March 1st. Which weeks we want during the summer.

00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:18.000

And then the rest of the summer, we stick to our parenting plan.

00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:26.000

I have other folks who say, okay. First two weeks of July.

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:33.000

Are… parent A's second two weeks of July are parent b's.

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:38.000

And we alternate. Year to year that way.

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:44.000

I even have some folks who say, okay. July is parent A's on odd years.

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:50.000

And parent's on Even yours and the flip for August.

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:51.000

Right. Yeah, they do the whole month because they do so much traveling.

00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:55.000

Wow, rotate the whole month? I like that.

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.000

These are like, again, getting to the like, we're going to go see extended family that lives outside of the country. So we want to have big blocks of time.

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:10.000

Mm-hmm.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:11.000

Wow.

00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:17.000

So it really kind of comes back to What are your vision like what what do you want What's going to be the easiest for you to coordinate around? I will say I love Schedules.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:22.000

Right.

00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:25.000

We know the set weeks that we're going to have during the summer.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:26.000

Right. Yeah.

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:38.000

No matter what, so that we don't have to have a lot of back and forth about Can I have these days? Can you have these days? Wait, he wants to sign up for camp those days you know.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:43:01.000

Like a lot of a lot of that can get confusing but some parents are totally up for it. They're like, we'll sit down and we'll hash out the summer schedule every year. That's not a big deal for us.

00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:02.000

Mm-hmm.

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:08.000

Yeah, I've heard of that too. I almost kind of think and sometimes like it's what it's okay if people are going to do that, then I've seen this build into the parenting plans where maybe in March or April, the parents are going to have a meeting to hash out the summer schedule.

00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:25.000

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's important to keep in mind, especially as kids get into elementary school and you know, older elementary If childcare is going to be a key thing during the summer.

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:31.000

And if that's going to look like summer camps or, you know, something.

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:43.000

If you're splitting weeks. So doing the 2255 or 3344 you're going to need to like get on the same page.

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:44.000

Around summer camps childcare and so forth.

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:48.000

Mm-hmm.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:44:02.000

If you're doing week on, week off, there's a little more flexibility that you might be able to just sign up for summer camps on the weeks that you know you have your kid and so forth. So that's just one other piece to

00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:09.000

Keep in mind, there can be a lot of coordination in order to have some childcare.

00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:12.000

Now that I'm talking with you about like what a summer schedule would look like.

00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:20.000

If my and you know my kid turns 18, he's got one more year of high school, but he turns 18 in the fall if he was a little bit younger and since we're doing a week on week off, I would do this for the summer. I would do two weeks on, two weeks off.

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:26.000

Yeah.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:27.000

Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:33.000

Just, you know, because it's summer, just having that way we don't even have to worry about vacation because you know what? You take a vacation during your trip.

00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:34.000

Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. I love that. I mean, that's actually the schedule that I use.

00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:39.000

Time.

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:43.000

Oh, really? Look at that.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:44.000

Okay. Okay.

00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:47.000

Yeah. So from the last and the way that we started is we go from the last Sunday in June that's when the clock starts.

00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:48.000

The two-week start? Okay.

00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:57.000

Okay. The two weeks start. So it's parent A, then parent B, and we do it two rounds of it so then Into August. And then any time that's left over at the end of the summer.

00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:01.000

Mm-hmm.

00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:20.000

After we've both two two week blocks, then we just revert back to the school schedule. And it's really nice because we tend to have a week or maybe two weeks of getting into school schedule before school actually starts.

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.000

Great. I'm confused. When does a two-week block end for you?

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:25.000

We're kind of getting into the routine of it.

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:27.000

So it would go Sunday to Sunday.

00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:44.000

Okay, so it is Sunday. But does it But does it turn out, I mean, does it end neatly? Okay, so let's put it this way. So then a two week block could be the last week of August going into the first week of September.

00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:45.000

Okay.

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:48.000

But it doesn't go that long for us because we start with the last Sunday of June. So we tend to finish, it tends to finish up by like the 20th of August.

00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:54.000

Oh.

00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.000

Oh, really? Okay. And then you just go back into the week on

00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:03.000

Or so. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Then we go back. Yep. Well, then we do a split week, but yes.

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:04.000

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:08.000

Okay. I said, oh, you do the split week. Okay Interesting.

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:12.000

So I do like it because I know exactly which weeks I'm going to have.

00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:13.000

Right. Okay.

00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:26.000

Every year. And I can make plans whenever I want to make plans and I can put the kids into summer camp on the weeks that I have them if I want, or we can travel or Yeah, do whatever.

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:34.000

That's interesting. Let me ask you this, though. I'm going to put it, I'm going to put a little wrench into your plan. What is, you know, you're okay.

00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:41.000

Good.

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:42.000

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:48.000

So the kids get older. There's this fabulous high school trip. They get to go to during two weeks. So let's say that two week trip falls during your week though

00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:53.000

Yeah, tough luck.

00:46:53.000 --> 00:47:01.000

Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:02.000

Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:07.000

So tough luck. So then your kid has two weeks with dad During your two weeks, he's gone off in gallivanting around europe he comes back and then it's two weeks back to dad

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:13.000

I mean, if you're in a relationship where you can negotiate and you want to talk to them about it, great.

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:14.000

Okay.

00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:20.000

Right. Your co-parent about can we split split a week here or can I have a few days here to reconnect?

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:27.000

Great. But this kind of falls into the category for me of like, yeah, that's hard on you.

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:31.000

But you're teen… is like thriving.

00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:32.000

Okay.

00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:37.000

Your teen is having this amazing adventure. Right.

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:38.000

Yes, yes.

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:59.000

You get to process your feelings. Around it, you get to do that but We want like that's what we want for them.

00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:00.000

Yeah.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:13.000

I think it's, I think it's, I totally understand what you're saying because it's talking about the the child-centered, child focus And I think the conundrum happens when you're dealing in a high conflict situation and it's always One parent that's child-centered and child focused

00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:14.000

Yeah.

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:28.000

And it's not the high conflict parent. So in that way, it kind of feels like you the one who is, I guess, the more reasonable parent in a way kind of has to capitulate because they're putting their child's needs first, but ultimately that's what we do and

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:30.000

Yeah. And because we are taking We're taking the long view.

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.000

Yeah.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:35.000

Mm-hmm.

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:43.000

Right. We're taking this long view sense of the kind of relationship we want to have with the child.

00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:44.000

Right. And that's what we're focusing on. Yeah.

00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:53.000

Right. And that's it. And going back to that long view of what ultimately is going to help your child thrive and grow and be a healthy adult.

00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:55.000

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:02.000

In spite of this high conflict parent.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:03.000

So I want to go ahead

00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:08.000

Yeah, right? Yeah. It's not easy. It's not easy. Nobody's saying this is easy stuff for sure.

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:09.000

For sure.

00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:23.000

And the funny thing is, is that It's like the high conflict, the high conflict people are actually a minority in the population, but they seem to of course just take demand a lot of the court's time and resources because they're the ones that are going into court a lot and

00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:35.000

Right. Yeah, yeah.

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:36.000

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:44.000

You as the other party as well. But I want to go back into, I'm going to circle us back to the very beginning when we talked about Christmas Day, because my head is still stuck on that because This is a hot button for many, many parents. And that whole christmas day

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:50.000

Where I want to have time with my kid on Christmas Day too.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:55.000

I want to have that same opportunity and experience to open up presence.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:08.000

And so I hear what you're saying in terms of Okay, but if we're being child center and child focus How do you think your five-year-old, your six-year-old's going to feel where they're at dad's dad's house?

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:16.000

Christmas morning, they play with all the toys and then they've got to transition. Okay, pack up your stuff. It's 12 noon. Now you got to go to mom's.

00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:26.000

Like walk me through that as your client. In a way.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:27.000

Okay.

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:34.000

Yeah, well, yeah. I think where I would back up to is like I would be really curious why The day is very important to you.

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:35.000

Okay. Okay.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:41.000

So the experience of it You know, I like these traditions. These are the foods we eat. These are the songs we sing.

00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:43.000

Right. Okay. Yeah.

00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:48.000

These are the games we play. This is us opening presents. Great. Like you have this whole thing.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:55.000

So tell me why. That day.

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:56.000

Okay, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you what. Okay, so I'm going to tell you.

00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:02.000

Is really important to you. I'm not and I'm saying okay Yeah, you tell me.

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:03.000

Yeah.

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:09.000

Well, because, Meg, you know, Christmas Day is just because it's Christmas Day, I don't know what to tell you. I've got a lot of fond memories of Christmas Day as a child.

00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:10.000

Yeah.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:19.000

You know, part of the tradition that me and my husband would do is that we would wrap up the kids presents all overnight, put them underneath a tree to make it look like Santa came.

00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:26.000

And so Christmas morning, there's this great happy memory. And then, of course, you know, everybody has time off Christmas Day.

00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:34.000

So it's kind of planning those holiday get togethers where I work, sometimes I have the day after Christmas off.

00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:35.000

Mm-hmm.

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:45.000

But sometimes not. So if I don't celebrate on Christmas Day, then what I'm supposed to celebrate the day after Christmas?

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:55.000

With my family and everybody. Oh.

00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:00.000

Oh.

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:01.000

Okay.

00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:09.000

Yeah. So like working through this right And like figuring out if like people will, I mean, in the end, you get to choose In the end, you get to choose and there's You know, it might work out great for your family. You know your kids the best.

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:12.000

So I'm never going to say, oh, you should definitely do it this way.

00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:14.000

Mm-hmm.

00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:23.000

What I have found is that When people eat Thanksgiving dinner Right. I'll give that example because it's such a meal, right?

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:29.000

Doesn't really matter if it's on Thursday or if it's on Friday.

00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:37.000

Or if it's on a Saturday or a Sunday, like they get their people together And they enjoy it, right?

00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:43.000

Or another example I'll give. Here's an example from my family.

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:44.000

Okay.

00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:57.000

We don't jointly celebrate birthdays. And we don't split the kids birthdays.

00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:58.000

Awesome.

00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:03.000

So my kids tend to have at least two birthday parties But oftentimes more than that, because they'll have family birthday parties with each parent.

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:04.000

Hmm.

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:10.000

And then they do special friend things as well or neighbors come over and so they have Like we jokingly say, oh, you're starting your two weeks of birthday.

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:15.000

Yeah.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:18.000

Right. And let me tell you, my kids have never once complained. And we got divorced when they were two and six, right?

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:23.000

Yeah.

00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:24.000

Wow.

00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:29.000

They've never once complained. That a parent wasn't there for their birthday.

00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:43.000

They are in the moment. They are doing their thing. They are like, I am being celebrated so I think it's… we're coming back to the Christmas question, right?

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:44.000

It really is it's really coming back to, okay, is this really for me?

00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:50.000

It's a question.

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:57.000

Or is it for the kid, kiddos? And if it's for me and I just really, really want it.

00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:58.000

Great. You get to do that. You get to advocate for that, right?

00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:02.000

I want Christmas. Okay. Okay.

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:25.000

But know that they're it like you can still have amazing experiences with your kids. They can still feel like they are getting all the juiciness of a holiday Even if you end up celebrating it with them on a different day or

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:26.000

Yeah.

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:38.000

If you only celebrate every other year with them. There are lots and lots of families who decide They really want to be with extended family and that requires traveling And so they alternate.

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:47.000

Years of who gets Christmas, right? Because they have decided it is more important for them to be around their extended family at the holiday time than the holiday time to split it. Yeah.

00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:58.000

Do the traveling. I mean, now I am totally curious, what do you do for Christmas?

00:54:58.000 --> 00:54:59.000

How? Okay.

00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:03.000

We split it. I'm sorry. No, I said that totally wrong. We alternate years, right? And so somebody gets Thanksgiving week.

00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:08.000

Oh, okay. Okay.

00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:13.000

The whole… the whole break, the whole break.

00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:20.000

Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm.

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:21.000

Yeah.

00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:28.000

The other parent will get Christmas. The whole vacation. So we both, yeah, we both have family that live out of state. So when we travel It takes some good amount of effort. So we decided to do it that way so that folks could travel

00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:29.000

Stressed out, right.

00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:42.000

And not be stressed about it and so forth. So what that really means is that sometimes You know, it might be two, two and a half weeks.

00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:43.000

Okay. Okay.

00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:47.000

For Christmas break. Some years, right? Because they get out Some years how it falls, they get out on like the 15th or something like that of December. It's crazy.

00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:57.000

I know, right? Yeah.

00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:58.000

Right.

00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:04.000

So some years One parent might get an extra long stretch because of how things fall. And then the next year You know, they might only have 10 days. Maybe that's not quite right. I don't know the exact calculation.

00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:05.000

I know what you mean. We don't worry about it because it averages you out.

00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:10.000

But we don't worry about it. We don't worry about it.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:11.000

Wow.

00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:19.000

And because in the long run. Like we're both having the relationship with the kids that we want to be having.

00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:20.000

Wow. Wow. I love that.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:28.000

Right? And we're getting to do the thing that we want to do, which is I want to be able to take my kids home to see their aunts and uncles and grandparents And we're both getting to do that.

00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:38.000

Yeah. Yeah. So wait, are you traveling with your kids during the Thanksgiving holidays if it's your year?

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:39.000

Okay.

00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:45.000

Try to get my family to come here. I mean, I have, I have before, you know.

00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:46.000

Uh-huh.

00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:51.000

But it's not, that's not fun.

00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:54.000

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

00:56:54.000 --> 00:57:11.000

Yeah. Well, gosh, I mean, we… Oh my gosh. Thank you. Thank you so much, Meg, for… join us in this exciting four-part series. I mean, we've covered so much ground with the residential schedules, the holidays, the vacations.

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:12.000

Oh my gosh. I…

00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:24.000

Yeah. Good stuff. It's good stuff. I hope everybody just takes away that they can really create a schedule that works for them, that feels good to them.

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:25.000

That's my goal. There isn't a cookie cutter that is perfect for every family.

00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:29.000

Right.

00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:37.000

You get to make it.

00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:38.000

Yeah.

00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:45.000

And that's what I, in a way too, as a family law attorney, that's kind of my most favorite parts in terms of creating a parenting plan with someone, you know, like what works with your schedule. Let's sit down and let's figure this out.

00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:51.000

Because there is no right or wrong approach. It's really what's important to you and your family.

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:52.000

Yeah, I love it.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:58.000

So thank you, Meg, for sharing your ideas and for sharing what you do in your own parenting plan.

00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:19.000

And join us. Next time, folks, when we dive into part two, when we're going to talk about with meg Gluckman from host of the other podcast uh divorce parenting coach extraordinaire. We're going to talk about conflict resolution and decision making in your parenting plan.

00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:23.000

So stay tuned, folks. And Meg, thank you so much again.

00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:25.000

Thank you, Lonnie. This is great.

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:33.000

Wait, and how can people contact you if they need your help in discussing how to create their residential schedule vacation slash holiday?

00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:42.000

Wonderful. My website is just my name. It's Meg Gluckman. That's G-L-U-C-K-M-A-N.

00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:47.000

And you can schedule a consult call with me there and we can talk about it.

00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:51.000

All right. Thank you again so much, Megan. Until next time.

00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:57.000

Join us for another episode of Archiona Law. On the Acheono Law podcast, wherein we talk about anything and everything that intersects in the areas of family law and divorce. I'm Ululani Akiona.

00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:09.000

Until