The Akiona Law Podcast: Featuring Beth Hirnle

In this episode of the Akiona Law Podcast, Ululani “Lani“ Akiona, speaks with Emotion-Focused Trained Counselor and Collaborative Divorce Coach, Beth Hirnle. Beth is a board member of King County Collaborative Law (KCCL), and a member of Collaborative Professionals of WA (CPW), International Academy of Collaborative Professionals (IACP), and Association of Family and Conciliation Courts (AFCC).  

Beth and Lani dive into the transformative role of a collaborative divorce coach. Beth explains how collaborative divorce coaches manage the emotional dynamics and communications between couples. When children are involved, a collaborative divorce coach supports the transition from spouses to co-parents. She describes how coaches work alongside legal and financial professionals to create comprehensive divorce solutions that focus on the parties' long-term well-being. Beth emphasizes collaborative divorce coaches are not therapists. Instead, a collaborative divorce coach provides tools and strategies for effective communication during the divorce process, helping couples make informed decisions while maintaining respect and dignity. Lani’s conversation with Beth highlights how divorce coaches add value by making the process more efficient and cost-effective, while also providing support to the parties through individual meetings separate from the main collaborative team sessions. 

Website: https://www.bethhirnlecoaching.com/

Transcript

Hello, and welcome to another opposite… welcome to another episode of the Akiona Law Podcast.

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We're in, we talk about anything and everything that intersects in the areas of family law and divorce.

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I am Lani Akiona, and today we're going to be delving into collaborative divorce and what is a…

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Collaborative Divorce Coach, and why you need one in your collaborative divorce case.

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And today, I have with me Collaborative Divorce Coach Beth

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Currently, did I say that right?

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Okay, well…

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You sure did, yeah. Thank you, Lani, you did.

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Welcome to the podcast, Beth! I'm so happy to have you on today.

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Thank you for having me on. I'm excited to be here, and I'm looking forward to discussing this topic with you.

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Well, I'm excited that you're here, because sometimes it's when we're talking about collaborative divorce,

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Um, you know, I've… I've done collaborative divorce cases without a coach and without a divorce coach, and having done both,

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Yeah.

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Now I am an advocate for having a divorce coach, and it's hard for people to kind of really understand, you know, why you need one, or why do you need one, and what does a

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collaborative divorce coach do. So that's what I really want to get into with you today.

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Okay. Awesome.

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So I'm very excited to dive into this. So, you know what? Why don't we start off, Beth? Why don't you tell us about yourself? Like, how did you get into becoming a collaborative divorce coach anyway?

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Yeah! For sure. Well, actually, the story of how I got into collaborative coaching is somewhat funny. It's from another collaborative coach who's in our community, Sherry Vernon.

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She and I have been colleagues for. Oh gosh, 25 years now, as I'm aging myself and dating myself here. And, um, she had gotten trained, um, collaboratively, um, the year prior, and just said, Beth, I think this would just be.

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right up your alley, and you should check it out.

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Um, I'm a licensed mental health counselor. I've been in practice for over 25 years and have a lot of experience working with families.

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And actually, in particular, my early training was in working with teenage moms.

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And working in multi-generational households, um, which was… which was fascinating.

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Working with folks in schools, and then in private practice.

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And, um, she mentioned this to me, and I ordered, um, Karen Bunnell's, um.

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Oh, okay.

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the co-parenting Handbook, and read it that day, and just, it ticked all of my boxes.

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And I thought, wow, after being in private practice for so long, what a great field to, um.

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dive into and just kind of add to my skill set. And so I did all the trainings, um, that, you know, we all do.

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Um, and just really have immersed myself in the community and, um.

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Love, love, love coaching. It's just been such a wonderful experience. So that's a little bit of background of how I got.

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into coaching, which was from. a colleague who was already in the community.

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And Sherry Vernon is a well-established collaborative divorce co-chair in.

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Yeah, she's fantastic.

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That's right. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Um, what… what is it that you love about being a collaborative divorce coach?

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Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

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Yeah. Oh my gosh, there's so many things. I love the teamwork element, and you know, you started off the podcast with, like, why do we need a collaborative divorce coach? Like, what is the purpose, right?

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And so, as you know, right, when we think about collaborative divorce, um, it has a different setups, right? Where we have a team approach, essentially.

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Right.

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To help guide our clients through this process. Um, and the attorneys are there to do the legal elements of the collaborative process, right?

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Literally explaining the law, drafting the documents, focusing in that way.

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As you know, we often have a financial neutral who's fantastic to help gather, you know, what are the financial components of a divorce.

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And then lastly, when we think about divorce. There's a third component, which is, what are these psychological and emotional.

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Oh, great.

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components of a divorce, right? And. you know, there's the legal piece, there's the financial piece, but in collaborative law, we want everybody to come out.

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Yes. Yes.

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As emotionally healthy as they can. Oftentimes, right, we're working with folks who have kids.

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And, you know, one of the roles of a collaborative divorce coach is to work with those parents.

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Mm-hmm, right.

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To help them make that transition from spouses. to co-parents, right? And how do you… how do you find a way to work together.

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to support your kids, right? You know, um, that's a big draw.

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for a collaborative divorce process. And then one other thing I'll say is on the team, right? You know, the Collaborative Divorce coach is really managing what's the emotional content in the room.

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Yes, yes.

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What's the level, right? We're asking people to make really big, life-changing decisions.

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And we're asking them to work together. Despite dissolving their marriage.

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Right.

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And we want them to be able to make really good decisions.

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when they're in an emotionally safe space. You know, if we're working just from anger or fear.

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Right.

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Yes.

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We might make decisions differently. That when we're in a more… open space.

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Yeah.

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And so, just… so to kind of, almost in a way, recap what you said, it's… you have, like, the Collaborative Divorce team, right? You have the lawyers there that are essentially handing the legal aspect of it.

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Then you have the financial neutral that's handling the, um, financial aspect of it.

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Helping with the financial decision-making.

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Yes.

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And I like how you said that the role of the divorce coach is there to help

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regulate the emotional

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aspect of it.

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Oh, thank you. The communication's good.

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Right, exactly, and also the communication piece, right? So… so those things really link together, right? So when we are emotionally activated, we don't tend to communicate in our best ways, right? That's when we… you know, might be throwing barbs across the room.

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I know, I don't.

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Right? Yeah, nobody does, right? I mean, and actually, our bodies are designed that way, right? Our nervous system gets activated, and boom, we go in that, you know, fight, flight, or freeze.

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A freeze, yeah.

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Right.

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Right. Mm-hmm.

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fun, different mode, and that's just part of being human, right? And so… you know, often couples' dynamics will get re… they'll get kicked up in the divorce process, right? And one person will start talking, and the other person's already jumped to 5 conclusions about what it is they're going to say.

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Or how they've said it, or what they mean by it.

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Uh-huh. Right.

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And so, my role is to really help in that process, so that these folks can really hear one another.

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And communicate in a way that's effective. And then help manage the temperature in the room, to your point, right, when we get activated.

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Yeah.

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We get worked up. So my job is to help folks.

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Including the entire team, right? We're all… it's stressful for everybody, you know, who's involved.

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It is stressful.

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Right? It is, you know? I mean, it's… it's hard work.

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That we do, you know, helping folks dissolve marriages. People don't go into it looking for a divorce, right? And so… What we're doing is really challenging, so it's helpful for the whole team.

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To kind of be able to be in an environment.

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That's as calm as possible.

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And I know my… when I get emotionally… and it's essentially here, because it goes back to talking about not only is a divorce coach helpful,

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In terms of managing that communication and trying… and Cambronell talks about that, transitioning from the role of spouses to being the business of being co-parents when you have kids.

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Yeah. That's right.

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But if you remove kids from the equation,

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Because I can see some people saying, well, I don't have kids, so how's the divorce coach gonna help me?

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Right. Exactly.

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And again, it goes to that point where we carry that in a way, the, um…

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what is it called? That, that emotion… that dance that we do of communication.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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From when we're married to that… to that space here in the Collaborative Divorce team.

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Exactly. That's right.

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And for me, when I get emotionally disregulated,

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Yeah.

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It's either fight, flight, or freeze, and I tend to fight. And fighting for me, means I'm yelling, there's probably some F-bombs being dropped in between,

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Right, right, right.

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And, um, and not only from that is, you know, I've gone through that, where I've become emotionally dysregulated, going through this collaborative divorce process with my counterpart attorney.

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where I'm getting triggered, and I'm activated, and I'm raising my voice,

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Right, exactly.

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And the divorce coach essentially has to step in between the attorneys and say, whoa, whoa, let's wait a minute.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I mean, for the attorneys, right, your job is really challenging, because you're trained.

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to be opposing parties, right? To be working against one another, right? Whereas in collaborative environment.

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Yeah.

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That's not the case. You're really working together, and the focus isn't on.

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One person getting their desired outcome. The focus is on both people.

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Yeah.

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Right? Coming to a good enough agreement where they both feel like they can sleep at night.

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Right? And not… and not have an experience of, wow, I was really.

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you know, rake through the coals over here or over there, but we're looking for both people to come out as financially healthy as possible.

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And then as emotionally healthy as possible. Yeah, exactly.

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I'm not feeling healthy, because with the divorce coach, and I'm sorry, I don't… with the divorce coach, not only is the divorce coach there to, in a way, um, help

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manage miscommunications between the parties, but I was going to, between the attorneys themselves.

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Yeah. Yeah. That's right, because you can get positional, right? Because you're used to being in a role of advocacy.

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Right.

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Right? And I, you know, it's my client, I'm gonna protect, and it is true, you each have your own client, right? And, um, it is true that you're each representing.

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you know, one person, but again, the approach that you're using is.

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No, we're encouraging this… these two people to come up with.

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An agreement that works for them. Right? Not necessarily an agreement that attorney A feels.

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Right.

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should happen, or even Attorney B feels should happen, right? It's really allowing the two parties to work together.

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With the support of the team to come up with an agreement.

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And so, that often can be an activator for folks like you're talking about, where it's like, wait, hold on a second here, like… Wait, wait, you know, I may be used to doing minimum for spousal support, and now we're talking about.

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You know, rather than the low end, the high end, right? And having to… having to remind yourselves that the focus is on.

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I'm providing the information for my clients, and I'm giving them the information that they need to make a well-informed decision.

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Right.

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For them and their… It's their process, right? So my job is to help make sure.

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Right? That that's what's happening in the collaborative environment.

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Right, so to your point, sometimes checking with the attorneys and saying, all right, let's look at what's happening here. Is anybody feeling really protective or, like, they're over-advocating, perhaps? And then what might we need to do to… address that.

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And, you know, spousal support is a really good topic, too, because that can be a very…

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I mean, not that can be. That typically is a very touchy

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Yeah.

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topic for both… for both spouses, whether it be the, uh, the partner paying… the spouse paying… spousal maintenance and the spouse receiving it.

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very triggering.

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Sure. Right, exactly. Absolutely. I mean, anytime… It's very triggering, right? And for most couples.

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Oh, it is! Yeah.

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Not all, but most. Money is often an issue, right? And I mean, it's one of the most common challenges that couples have.

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And then you come into this divorce process, where now you're having to suss out.

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kind of who gets what, when, where, and how.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right.

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Right, and when we've got kids involved. You know, that's almost… I don't want to say easier, but we… we focus on those kids as.

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We want you both to be financially healthy, because you're going to be better parents for your children.

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Right.

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Right? Your financial health sets up success for your kids.

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Right.

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Right? And so, we try to have. Folks, focus on their financial settlement.

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Mm-hmm.

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with their kids. in mind, right? And sometimes then it looks different.

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Yeah.

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than what, you know, may traditionally happen. Um, because we're looking at, how old are your kids? What are your goals for your kids, right? What do they need?

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How are you going to account for that? You know, that's the other thing that collaborative divorce coach is really bring to the table, and the co-parent coaching is.

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Helping people think about not just now. But, like, 5 years from now, 10 years from now.

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Right.

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shoot, even 20 years from now. Right. So… so that's something that we bring to the table.

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Um, that adds to the… experience, but sometimes also increases the complexity.

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A little bit as well, because we're so thorough.

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And it goes to, even if you don't have… even if you don't have kids, and you're talking about spousal support,

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There's always a lot of fear for that lesser-income spouse, where…

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Am I going to be okay 5, 10, 20 years from now?

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Right.

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Right. Right, exactly. And to the point, to the person who might be paying, right, are they going to also be able to support themselves, right, in addition to supporting the other. And so.

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That's part of the collective that we're bringing to collaborative divorce, is how do you both end up okay?

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How you both end up okay, because usually…

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How do you both end up okay? Yeah. Yeah.

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Usually with a spouse who's paying, uh, that spousal support, they have their own… it's usually, it's this… what I see is this, uh…

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My goal is, I want to retire in X number of years.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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And how do we balance my goal where I want to retire in X number of years with

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Their spouses' goal of…

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will I be okay?

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Yeah, sure, exactly, particularly, right, if you have a situation where one parent's been more of a stay-at-home parent, if you will, right, and has kind of, you know, focused on the lion's share of that, right? And so then we're talking about.

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You know, is there maybe some retraining that needs to happen, or what would it look like for that person to get back into the workforce, and.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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And how do we create a runway for that, right? So, yeah, there's all of these factors that go into play, and so, you know, having a coach.

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at least allows for. a better assessment of these factors, because again, we're looking at them from a.

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calmer state of being, and a more, um, data… specific space of being as well, right? If we let our anger drive our decisions in divorce, then let's just talk about how differently.

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that's going to turn out, versus… okay, we're two adults, we've decided to dissolve our marriage.

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What's the best way we can do it?

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Right, not only the anger, but the fear, too, because again,

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Yeah, right.

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If we… you know, we have those situations where it's not even, like, a parent who has been a homemaker to take care of the kids. A lot of times, when you have

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marriages and the…

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Right.

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kids aren't involved, or…

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or the kids aren't there anymore, you still have that lesser income-earning spouse.

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Right, right, exactly.

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And how do I… how do I know I'm going to be okay, just because I've got to think about, um,

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you know, my Social Security earnings aren't going to be as high. What's going to help in?

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In terms, like, I've dealt with this too, where you have, um…

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Sure.

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You have spouses that have been together for 20-plus years,

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One spouse was either not working or not making as much money, and now that they're older and there could be some health issues and health concerns.

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Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

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Especially for the lower-income spouse, like, how do I know I'm going to be okay moving forward? And…

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Right.

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that fear, and I've seen it happen where you're… and I… it just… you can't help it happen as an attorney where I may feel protective over my client.

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Especially if they earn less.

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Right, right. Sure.

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And again, like you referenced, I may unknowingly now, in the team meetings, be positional.

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unintentionally.

00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:22.000
Yeah.

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:23.000
Right.

00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.000
Yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, yeah, exactly. Well, and that's just it, right? You know, is that, you know, so much of our… emotional, um… climate, if you will, is happening underneath, right? You know, and we're not necessarily as familiar with it.

00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:36.000
But, you know, you started to touch on a topic that I know we talk about in our community is, you know, in terms of, like, the silver or the gray divorces, right? Folks who are deciding to divorce.

00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:39.000
And maybe they were already retired, or they're just about to retire.

00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.000
They're about to retire.

00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:42.000
And it's like, holy smokes, how do we do this, right?

00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:49.000
Yeah. How do we do it?

00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:50.000
It does.

00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:58.000
That adds a whole other layer. Of stressors, right? And, um… And so, yeah, and so, again, we can talk about those things in a different way, because we're working together.

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:09.000
Right? It's kind of like… If we all put our heads together, right, and the attorneys are providing that legal guidance, right, the financials providing the financial guidance.

00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:10.000
Uh-huh.

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:16.000
And then it's like, you know, the coach is there to kind of maintain the communication. It allows for creativity.

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:17.000
Right.

00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:25.000
Because it's like, right, you know. Five minds can be better than one. If we're able to approach it, again, collaboratively.

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:30.000
Right? How can we be creative? So that both people can be okay.

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:40.000
And that's a completely different framework. Right? That… that were… that we're bringing to the table. And, um, and that's something that the coach really helps.

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:45.000
drive home is, well, wait, how do we reframe a situation? It looks like this, but.

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.000
Perhaps it could look like this, and… Let's get curious. Yeah.

00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.000
Let's get curious. Yes, let's get curious, since…

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:55.000
Let's get curious. Mm-hmm. Let's get curious, right? Let's get the whys, right? The whys help us, right? Because.

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.000
Yep.

00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:04.000
That's where we get to, well, is it because I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to support myself?

00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:13.000
And so that's why I'm holding onto this. Right? Or is it that… I always saw myself moving here, right? You know, when we get underneath it.

00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:19.000
a bit more. It helps others get more compassion and a bit more understanding.

00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:28.000
And then creates more opportunities for creativity. Right? Whereas in a traditional process, if you just have an attorney going between an attorney.

00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:37.000
There's less room for that. There's less room for that. Doesn't mean you can never be creative, but there's… There's less room, because the folks aren't working together.

00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.000
Right? They're… they're… they've got somebody who's doing it.

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.000
Mm-hmm.

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.000
Right.

00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.000
And I under… like, you're talking especially about a lot of times,

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.000
On their behalf, yeah.

00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:52.000
We're trying to move together as a team, remove our clients from the positions to the Y underneath.

00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:59.000
to getting curious.

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:00.000
Right.

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:20.000
Yeah. Yeah. Yes, exactly, exactly. Yeah, we get curious. That's our key elements piece, right? Of, like, let's understand this connection to the house for some… what that might be for somebody, right? Or… any other number of variables, right, that we might consider in the process. And so, just having a coach on that team really helps facilitate.

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.000
Uh-huh.

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.000
these conversations. Um, because, you know, as attorneys, you're trained in one way, right? And as a coach, we're trained in it.

00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:23.000
Yeah.

00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:31.000
different way, right? And, and… to the point, like we're talking about today, there's so many different facets to divorcing.

00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:38.000
That, um… you know, one person doesn't cover them all, and so that's another just real benefit to collaborative divorce.

00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.000
As well, is that you have folks who are.

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:46.000
just experts in their particular fields that help create a more holistic.

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.000
Well, holistic and comprehensive team.

00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:50.000
Experience. Yeah, exactly.

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:56.000
And… because especially, like, when we're… you mentioned reframing, I don't want to talk about that, because in a way, a position could be… it could be, like, let's just say a wife. A wife could say, you know, I want the house.

00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.000
Sure.

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.000
That's per position.

00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:03.000
Sure. Sure. Mm-hmm.

00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:09.000
And… even with the help of, again, with a collaborative divorce attorney,

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:10.000
Um, still, that collaborative divorce coach can come in and help what, you know, what's the why?

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:17.000
Mm-hmm.

00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:18.000
Why do you… why… what's the why behind the position of, I want the house?

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.000
Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:29.000
Yeah, and not in a way that makes people feel defensive. You know, it's so interesting that we're using the word why, because in counseling land, it's like, you don't ask why, right? Because.

00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.000
You don't…

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:33.000
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:37.000
Often people can feel, like, defended, like they have to justify, but we do it in a way that's different, like.

00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.000
Right? Tell me about that.

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:40.000
Yeah.

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:43.000
Tell me more, right? I want to keep the house because, like, okay, the kids have grown up here, great.

00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:50.000
Tell me more. What else is there? We just get more curious, so we can get more specific.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:56.000
You know, to, um… what a person wants, and why they might want it.

00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:01.000
But then we're also providing the reality, right? Well, let's see if that's possible.

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:02.000
The reality check.

00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:12.000
Alright, is it possible? There's the reality check, right? And so sometimes we need… not sometimes, we, throughout the process, need to be able to provide those reality checks as well.

00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.000
That's where the financial neutral comes in, with a reality check.

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:21.000
Right? And… That's exactly right. Yay, we're looking at this, this is what we're looking at. How do we make this happen, or can we?

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:27.000
We might not be able to. So then the coach is able to help folks come to terms with that.

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:36.000
As well, right? Like, wow, this is turning out different than what you thought it might be.

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:37.000
Right.

00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:43.000
And what are the outside supports you have as well, right? So the coaching might… our job is to get them through the divorce, but we're also there to make sure they have extra support.

00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.000
Do you have a therapist who can talk this through?

00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:49.000
Right? Do you have folks that are there for you.

00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.000
You know, that can also support you. In the process.

00:22:52.000 --> 00:23:00.000
And going back to that whole piece of… and I always think… I kind of think as well, the coach is there throughout the meeting, because people…

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:06.000
people, when we're doing these collaborative divorce team meetings,

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.000
They can… they're usually for 4 hours.

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.000
It chews 4 hours.

00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:19.000
Yeah. 3 hours, right? Generally, 3, yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually 3 hours, right? I mean, generally, but it's a long time, to your point, right? Like, we're with the clients for at least.

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:20.000
two hours in a meeting. Absolutely. Yes.

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:28.000
Right. Two hours in a meeting, and it's intense, and it's intense, and it's a lot of emotional…

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:29.000
Yeah. Yeah.

00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:37.000
pieces going on, and just in terms of feelings coming up, uh, triggers, and I like the divorce coach being there, because I think of them as taking the temperature of the room.

00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:38.000
Correct. That's right.

00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:43.000
Not only the attorneys, but of the clients, because sometimes, and I've seen this happen, too, with one of my clients, where

00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:47.000
When the husband is talking, they start shutting down.

00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:48.000
It's almost as if… what is that… what do you say? Fight, flight, or freeze?

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.000
Yeah, sure.

00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.000
Right.

00:23:53.000 --> 00:24:02.000
Freeze, yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, absolutely, and that's an automatic physiological response, right? So being able to recognize.

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.000
Mm-hmm.

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:07.000
Hey, here's what's happening. Let's take a time out and do what we need to do.

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:10.000
to kind of bring you back, I always kind of say, like, back online or back on board.

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.000
Back online or back online, I love that!

00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:17.000
Um, and… yeah. Back online, right? You know, because it's what you're talking about is that executive functioning goes offline, right?

00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:20.000
Yes!

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:21.000
They've shut down. Right.

00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:36.000
And then they're just… they're just shut down, or they're just in it, exactly. So, tips and tricks, you know, coaches, we bring tips and tricks as well to the team, um… I teach folks about the vagus nerve, for example, and how when we can.

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:37.000
Uh-huh.

00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.000
get that activated, it rebalances our nervous system. So we'll use things like ice water that we can put on our wrist.

00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:47.000
Um, that activates that vagus nerve or I'll even make folks get up and move around.

00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:48.000
Oh, that's good.

00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:58.000
Um, yeah, yeah, blowing bubbles is another one that's really fun, actually, when you blow bubbles, it automatically, like… first off, who doesn't have fun blowing bubbles?

00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:01.000
one bubbles, or… yeah.

00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:02.000
Wow.

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:05.000
Um, there's that, right? Right, Black bottles, really, but to blow bubbles, you have to be able to exhale in a way.

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.000
That regulates your breathing. If you try to blow a bubble, and you're just like.

00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:14.000
like, it doesn't work, you have to be able to, like, exhale in a very specific way to make the bubbles happen.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.000
Yeah.

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:26.000
And in doing that is what calms your vagus nerve. It activates the vagus nerve, and it's what calms your nervous system.

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:27.000
You know what?

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.000
So, even just a tool like that. Right? Is really fun for folks, yeah.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:33.000
I'm getting calm just picturing in my head, thinking about blowing a bubble.

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.000
I don't know how much fun it is.

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.000
Yeah.

00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.000
No, for real, right? It does. It is fun, and it just calms you down, and it's one of those things, again, that, you know.

00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:48.000
We know more than ever our physiology. is absolutely what impacts.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:54.000
Our emotions, and then, therefore, our thoughts and our feelings and the decisions that we make.

00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:59.000
Right? And so, again, we want people to be able to make good decisions.

00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.000
in an open space, you know, where they're able to make a decision.

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.000
And think clearly about it. And the coach really brings that element.

00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:08.000
oh my gosh, yes, exactly. That's the element that the coach brings in.

00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:14.000
to the process. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, yeah.

00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:24.000
Because again, it's hard, I mean, you know, no matter the best training that I've received, as a mediator and these different forms of mediation, especially

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:25.000
getting, uh, getting mediation training as the, um, curious mediator.

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.000
Sure.

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:30.000
Right.

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.000
Yes, yeah, Jacintigalat, right? For example, you know, she has a very specific.

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.000
Jacinta Gallant, right?

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:43.000
Yeah, exactly, very specific. curious, right, her focus is on curious mediation, right? Yeah, absolutely.

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:49.000
Yeah, you could still always use more, right? We can always use… we can always use more.

00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:51.000
tools and bits and pieces.

00:26:51.000 --> 00:27:00.000
Well, as… and again, it's just for support, because when I'm in as part of a collaborative divorce team, and I'm part as a collaborative divorce attorney,

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.000
Yeah.

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:06.000
No matter the best mediation training I've had, it's still, in a little way, like, it's still in a way, I'm thinking in my head,

00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.000
I'm the attorney here.

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:09.000
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:14.000
And again, with the Collaborative Divorce Coach, it really does help me, uh, stay centered,

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.000
And, uh, move away from taking position.

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:17.000
Yeah… Yeah, exactly.

00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:20.000
Because, again, it's hard.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:21.000
It's hard as an attorney.

00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:27.000
Right. It's hard, it's hard, right? It is hard as an attorney, yeah. I mean, it's just not how you're trained.

00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:29.000
Right? But you're doing this work for a reason.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:30.000
Right.

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:35.000
Right? Because it's… it's… Leads to better outcomes.

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:41.000
Right? For folks who are able to be in that same room together, who are able to be able to work with one another.

00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:46.000
They come out… not feeling as jaded.

00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:47.000
Not as stated. I think…

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.000
It's one of the benefits. They're not as jaded.

00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:55.000
Or they just kind of… they feel, in a way, a little bit more… more satisfied having to really come up with this really

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:57.000
well-thought-out.

00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.000
durable agreement.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:11.000
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and I think for an attorney, you know, one way to look at your role is you're… obviously, you're the attorney.

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:12.000
Right.

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:17.000
You're there as, like, the legal educator. Right? You know, it's kind of one way to think about it when you're working collaboratively. My job is to educate.

00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:22.000
Right? And… and give clients the information they need.

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:29.000
to be able to make a decision. Right? Knowing that it's their decision.

00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:34.000
If somebody, you know, wants to do something that's way outside of the bounds, right, as an attorney, you're going to say.

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:37.000
Yeah.

00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:40.000
this kind of way outside of the bounds here.

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.000
And let's really think about this. You know, have you really considered.

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:50.000
everything that's involved with this decision. Right? So you're providing that education.

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:52.000
Uh-huh.

00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:57.000
And, at the end of the day, because it's a collaborative process.

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:04.000
The clients get to decide. That they do, they get to decide what's going to be best for them.

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:05.000
Yeah.

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:10.000
And I also think, too, like, people may say, again, in terms of the terms of the collaborative divorce coach, where

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.000
well, can't I just have the attorney and the financial neutral

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:22.000
just be part of the team. Isn't that good enough?

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:23.000
Right.

00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:27.000
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, look, you know, at the end of the day, people think about money, right? And we all do. I mean, we know that when we're having a joint team meeting, it is an expensive.

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:29.000
Mm-hmm.

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:32.000
meeting, because they're paying for all of us at one time.

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:39.000
And what I always tell folks is, is that you actually end up saving money in the long run because.

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:40.000
I agree.

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.000
We're able to identify, are people, right, going at it right now, and are they going to make a decision that they're going to regret?

00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.000
And then, like, a week later, they're gonna come back and say, nope.

00:29:48.000 --> 00:30:06.000
I changed my mind, right? You know, so being able to… Um… help manage the pacing of the process, right? And, um… getting folks to a space, so there's times when, for example, I'll work with the couple.

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:11.000
in between meetings, often. What do we need to do to help you guys get to a place where you can?

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:12.000
Right.

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:19.000
Right. What does that look like? Right, are there some things from before that we need to just kind of close out?

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:24.000
So that you're able to… to kind of be able to make those decisions.

00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:34.000
Right? Um, and those are more affordable conversations. Right, than they are with an attorney, necessarily, like, often, right?

00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:40.000
Um, so… so there's work outside of those full team meetings that the divorce coach will do.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:46.000
Um, that couples often find really, really helpful. And issues where they may get stuck.

00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:51.000
with the team's support and approval, sometimes we work them outside of the team.

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:52.000
Yeah.

00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:58.000
Right. Especially for, like, a parenting plan situation, for example, um, we kind of.

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:05.000
We can take that outside of the team. And… and get some agreements made, and get some work done. That then gets brought back.

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:11.000
You know, and I appreciate you saying that, that the divorce coach… and I do feel the divorce coach makes things

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:14.000
more efficient, which is, um…

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:15.000
Which saves a party some monies in the long run, because as you said,

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.000
Yeah. In the long run.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.000
The divorce coach can have that separate meeting with the two clients.

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:23.000
And essentially, like, you touched upon, like, you know, what do we have

00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.000
Yeah.

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.000
that may have happened in the past, that's

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:33.000
keeping you stuck from moving forward here? What do we need to work on?

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:34.000
And I, as an attorney, do not need to be present in that meeting.

00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:44.000
Right, right. No, exactly, exactly, right, exactly. No, you don't, yeah, absolutely, you're right about that.

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:55.000
Absolutely. Yeah, it's just, we just help. keep the trains on the track, you know, is also one way to look at it. You know, I often will say, you know, I'm your divorce concierge, right?

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.000
The coaches, we also come with a lot of resources.

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:00.000
Right.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:08.000
Right? Um, in the collaborative community, we have a lot of resources, right? We have real estate agents who are trained, we have mortgage brokers who are trained, we have.

00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:14.000
Different people who are trained, right, to, um… to provide additional support.

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:22.000
Um, you know, we don't use therapy against one another in a collaborative divorce, right? We encourage our folks, like, go get that support.

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:23.000
Yeah.

00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:28.000
Where sometimes they can use that against one another, right? So we're really trying to set.

00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:36.000
folks up for a new way. of… how can you dissolve a relationship?

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:42.000
with some respect. At the end of the day, because you're both two people.

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:47.000
Yeah, founder your way together. Now you're… now you're going apart.

00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:52.000
Well, and it's all part of that thing, right? That conscious uncoupling.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.000
Right, right, right. What was, like, Gwyneth Paltrow, I think, wasn't she the one?

00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.000
Yeah.

00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:58.000
uncoupling.

00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:09.000
Coined it, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's kind of like the conscious uncoupling of people. I always tell clients, don't worry, we're not going to have crystals, and we're not going to sit there necessarily and go, oh, right? But that, yeah, like.

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:21.000
You know, you're two adults. And you, you know, you've made a decision.

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:22.000
I know.

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.000
how do you get through this in the best way possible? Nobody needs to be holding hands and singing into the sunshine together, right? You know, you're skipping down the road after this divorce, like, wow, that was amazing. No!

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:28.000
Yeah.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:34.000
But you can respect one another. As human beings.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:39.000
Who really have the right to live life. And as healthy as a way as they can.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:40.000
Right.

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.000
And then the financially secure way, as best as possible.

00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:45.000
You know, we want that for people on our planet.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:47.000
Yes. And to me, it just goes to, again, like, I love… you don't have to…

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:51.000
Yeah.

00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:58.000
I love that image. You don't have to, at the end of your divorce, we don't expect you to be skipping off into the sunset together holding hands.

00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:59.000
But it's just, you know, acknowledging that

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:02.000
Yeah. No, yeah.

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:07.000
Just because you get divorced doesn't mean you don't love someone anymore. You still have love for that person, you're just not in love with them.

00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:11.000
Sure. Sure. For sure, absolutely.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:16.000
And because of that, that love that I had for you as part of, you know, the fact that we were in this

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:21.000
Yeah.

00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:22.000
Exactly.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:33.000
This intimate relationship for how many years, how do we… again, how do we dissolve that with… with still maintaining that respect and love that I had for you?

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:37.000
Mm-hmm.

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:44.000
Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.000
Right.

00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:48.000
Right.

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:54.000
Exactly. I think about, for many people, when they get married, right, they have… there's a process. Some folks, you know, they're hiring the DJ, and maybe the florist, and then the photographer, right? And they're having to kind of make all these decisions together, generally speaking, you know, on what is that going to look like, and who do we need to help us make this happen, and.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:55.000
Right.

00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:05.000
How are we gonna handle that? It's kind of the same thing when you're ending your marriage, right? You're not hiring DJ, but you might in fact, have that divorce coach, for example, and then that financial neutral.

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:06.000
Yeah.

00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:09.000
You know, and then collaboratively trained attorneys, right, who can help you deconstruct your relationship.

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.000
in a way that… Again, is good enough.

00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:14.000
is good enough.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:17.000
And both people… and both people can sleep at night.

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:22.000
You know what's funny? I love this. If anything, that is such a great analogy, where, to me, the collaborative divorce Coach is like a DJ.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.000
Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:31.000
Because you can't have a good wedding without a good DJ.

00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:34.000
I know.

00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:35.000
Yeah.

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.000
Right? Totally, right? We're spinning the tunes, right? We're, like, reading the energy of the crowd. Are people bored? We better, like… you know, like, spunk up the music a little bit, yeah, absolutely.

00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:45.000
Yeah, and you can't have an effective collaborative divorce without that collaborative divorce coach.

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.000
Just like a DJ, yeah.

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:56.000
I love that.

00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:57.000
Yeah, yeah.

00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:00.000
Totally, exactly. Exactly, that's exactly right, that's really funny. I'll have to bring that, you know, in our case, perhaps, right, we've got, what we're working on now, can kind of spin some music, but, um, exactly, exactly, yeah, it's a really good way to look at it, for sure.

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:05.000
That's a good way. What would you… what would you say to… to someone

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:08.000
The question being, I guess, would be, well,

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:14.000
I don't need a divorce coach because my spouse and I have already been through counseling.

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:15.000
And that didn't… that didn't work.

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:22.000
Ah, uh-huh. Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh, I make it super clear, and this is what I tell attorneys to tell them.

00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.000
Uh-huh.

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:33.000
This is not somebody who's going to be your counselor. This person is not.

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:34.000
Ah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:37.000
trying to bring you back together again. This person is not trying to even solve what happened in the past, right? There doesn't actually have to be resolution.

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:38.000
Yeah. Right.

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:42.000
To be able to move forward, but what this person will do.

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.000
is give you the skill set that you need.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:53.000
to be able to communicate in a way. That you can hear one another, and that you can make good decisions.

00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:54.000
I love that.

00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.000
That's the difference, right? Yeah, it's not to fix… it's not to fix.

00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.000
Yeah.

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:03.000
It's to, like, let's help you move forward, and you gotta be able to hear one another in order to do that.

00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:08.000
I love that. The divorce Coach isn't there to fix what happened in their past.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.000
They're there to help you move forward.

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:12.000
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:17.000
to give you that skill set, the tool, so you can hear one another,

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000
And then be able to make good decisions to move forward.

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:21.000
Exactly. Exactly, exactly.

00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:25.000
I love that.

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:26.000
That's amazing. Yeah.

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:33.000
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So yeah, that's… that's… that's what you tell them, yeah, yeah, that's… but I get… I get it, a lot of people are like, no, like, no, we've already done that, we don't want that.

00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:34.000
Right.

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:37.000
Like, no, and it's like, yeah, you're right, no, that's actually not what's going to happen here.

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.000
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:40.000
apples and oranges, a counselor and a divorce coach.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:49.000
Yeah. Sure, exactly. It's a totally different role, it really is. It's a completely different role.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:53.000
Um, is there… is there any… is there any last piece?

00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:57.000
that you would want folks to take away in terms of,

00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:59.000
a divorce coach.

00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:10.000
Mm-hmm. Wow. Um, that's a good question. I think just… Knowing that, um…

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:18.000
it's okay, right? You know, it's okay to. go through a process.

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.000
that's maybe a little bit different than you envisioned.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:21.000
Mm-hmm.

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:31.000
Right? You don't just have to lawyer up, that we can look at divorce as a way to.

00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:32.000
Oh!

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:34.000
simply make a change, right? Once was once connected, it's now not going to be.

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.000
And what are the steps that we need to do to make that happen?

00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.000
Yeah, to make that change.

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.000
Just to make that change. Mm-hmm.

00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.000
All right, cue the music now, then.

00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:45.000
DJ! DJ Beth, cue some youth! Cue the music to make that change.

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:53.000
Right?

00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:54.000
Oh my gosh!

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.000
That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh, of course.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:02.000
Oh my gosh, well, thank you, Beth, for joining us on a wonderful podcast.

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:03.000
Um, so many good nuggets here of a…

00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:06.000
Yes, yes, indeed.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:11.000
what is a collaborative divorce coach, and why you need one in your collaborative divorce cage.

00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:12.000
Keith!

00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:19.000
Yeah. Exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly. Absolutely. And I often tell folks, too, you know, folks come my way who are considering how to divorce.

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:20.000
Yeah.

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.000
If you're thinking about it, go see a divorce coach.

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:23.000
Yeah.

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:30.000
Because they're going to help you… A, suss out, like, would this be a good process for you? And B, what are your options?

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.000
Okay.

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:39.000
Great, and um… so, you know, often I'll have folks come my way. We're thinking about getting divorced.

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:40.000
Okay.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:43.000
great, come meet with me. And, you know, let me help lay out the land of.

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:48.000
What your options are, what that looks like, and… how you might be able to move through those.

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:53.000
Well, and how can someone get ahold of you, then, if they want to meet with you to talk about it?

00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:59.000
Wow, that's a good question. They can find me online. I do have a website.

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:10.000
Beth Hearnleycoaching.com. Um, my name is awkward to spell, so perhaps, I don't know if there'll be anything written here.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:11.000
Yeah, please.

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:15.000
But, um, I'll spell it just for good… for good reason. Uh, it's B-E-T-H.

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:23.000
H I R N L E. So, Beth Hurnley, Beth Hurnleycoaching.com is my email address.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:24.000
Fantastic.

00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:29.000
And then my website. And, um, yeah, come take a peek and… shoot me a mail.

00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:33.000
And so then your website is also Beth Hearnley?

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:34.000
It's only okay.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:37.000
It's Beth Hermley coaching. Yeah, Beth Hermleycoaching.com, yeah, exactly.

00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:48.000
Exactly. I just made my email extra wordy, you know, to just… Force people to try to learn how to spell my last name.

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.000
There you go. Yes.

00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:50.000
you know, Beth would have just been too simple, so… So there we have it. Yeah.

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:56.000
And again, Hernley is spelled H-I-R-N-L-E.

00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:57.000
You've got it, yes, correct. That's correct.

00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:03.000
Yeah, and I always like to… and what's… what's a fun fact about you, Beth, that people wouldn't typically know?

00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:12.000
Ooh, what is a fun fact about me? Well, um, I went to graduate school at Gallaudet University, which is the only school in the world for deaf people.

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:13.000
What?!

00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:24.000
So, um, yes, yeah, yeah, so my, um, my courses were taught in American Sign Language, and, um, I was fully immersed.

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:25.000
Oh my god, goodness!

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:28.000
and Deaf culture for my graduate school experience. So that's a fun fact that others might not know. Mm-hmm.

00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:29.000
Do you still… do you still use your sign language?

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:37.000
Mm-hmm. I do, as a matter of fact, I do, yes, I have folks on my caseload that are deaf, and I use American Sign Language still.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:38.000
Oh my gosh, that is amazing.

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:40.000
To this day. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.000
That is a great, cool, fun fact I did not know about you.

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:51.000
It's a cool, fun fact, and that came to me via my sister. She said.

00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:52.000
Oh!

00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:54.000
You talk with your hands a lot, maybe try sign language. I needed a general university requirement in college, and I was like.

00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:58.000
Yeah?

00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.000
Well, no.

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:14.000
Okay, and then I just fell in love with it, so, um… I know, I just, you know, people give me a suggestion, Lonnie, and I sometimes just run with it. Um… Anyway, I really appreciate you having me on your… on your show today. I'm… I'm… I'm really grateful and appreciative that you invited me.

00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:19.000
Well, Beth, I'm so grateful that you're able to come on today. It's been a pleasure.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:20.000
Absolutely.

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:28.000
And, um, you know, again, anyone, if you want to talk about, you know, what is collaborative divorce coaching, what does it look like, suss it out,

00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.000
Contact Beth at Beth Hearnley Coaching.

00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:34.000
dot com, and we'll be sure to include in the, you know, drop your email link in our

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Yeah.

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:42.000
in our thing. I can't think of the actual name right now.

00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:43.000
Whatever that thing is, right? I got you, the podcast.

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:46.000
Yeah. Yeah, the podcast thing, folks.

00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:47.000
LARP? Yeah. That's good. Awesome.

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:56.000
Okay, and uh… thank you again, Beth, and thank you again to all the listeners for another episode of the Ociona Law.

00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.000
podcast, we're in… we talk about anything and anything.

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:06.000
That intersects in the areas of family law, divorce. I am Lonnie Aquiona. Until next time,

00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:09.000
Be well.

00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.000
Okay, so now we're done, so now I'm going to stop.

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:15.000
OkayThank you