Collecting in an Evolving Art Market | The Arts Club Dubai

In this episode of The Culture Counter, leading voices from across the art world discuss what it means to collect in a rapidly evolving global market. Recorded at The Arts Club Dubai, the conversation explores shifting collector behaviours, the growing influence of regional ecosystems, and the role of art in shaping cultural identity today.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Culture Counter, a podcast by the Arts Club. Through conversations, interviews, and live recordings, we explore the ideas, people and voices shaping culture today. This conversation was recorded at the Arts Club in Dubai as part of our cultural program, and as the region prepares to welcome Art Dubai's special edition. In this episode of The Culture Counter, Dunya Codewise, director of Art, Dubai Fair. Rania Ghandour, Director at International Client Service at Ruth Caton Goulding. Omar Al Gurg, designer and founder of Module Method, and Rami Homs, curator at the Barjeel Art Foundation, reflected on Art Dubai as a twenty year cultural milestone, highlighting how it has reshaped collecting in the region into a practice tied to patronage, identity and broader cultural responsibility. The conversation was moderated by Enas Rifai, assistant editor in chief at the National and co-host of Culture Bites. We hope you enjoy. Hello. Good evening everyone. It's a pleasure to be here at the Arts Club in Dubai. A city in many ways mirrors the very evolution we're about to discuss here tonight. Few events capture that transformation as powerfully as Art Dubai. More than just a fair. It has become a cultural marker for the region. For twenty years, a meeting point where local narratives and global perspectives converge, and where the act of collecting plays a visible role in shaping artistic discourse. Art Dubai has helped define what it means to collect in this part of the world. It has expanded the conversation beyond acquisition into something more dynamic about patriot identity and responsibility, of supporting artists and institutions that reflect the complexity of our time. There's often this quote that I come back to. We don't just collect art, we collect stories. We choose to stand behind. And in a city like Dubai, those stories are increasingly diverse, forward looking, and globally resonant. I'm especially delighted to be joined here today by such a thoughtful group of speakers. So thank you so much. And also we are going to have some time for questions afterwards, so please keep them in mind for later. So I'd like to start with you, Dunya, please. Um, what does it mean to have reached this milestone at Art Dubai? Um, well, I have to say. Look, I only joined Art Dubai a year ago, and I have to say, twenty years felt pretty exciting to me. And I was very humbled by the fact. And I also have to say I imagined, and I think all of us imagined this fair to be different. But now, um, we are where we are. And I think one thing that didn't change is how struck I was and still am by the love and support that people feel for art to by and that. And I think that's because it's, it's kind of like a sense of commitment, but also belonging. People really feel they're part of it. I've worked for Art Basel for many years and, you know, like, of course I attend many art fairs around the world and I've never experienced something like that, this sense of belonging. And I think that's only possible because of what Art Dubai has done over the past twenty years. It grew with the community and the grew. The community grew with it. So there's this sense of belonging that's very special, and I think we will still feel that. And I want people to feel that. And and I think it's this edition now is very much about the history, but also about the present moment. I think the fact that we could actually pull together an art fair in that short period of time is really owned to the groundwork that Art Dubai has done. We have fifty galleries, forty percent of them coming from outside of the UAE. And I think it's only possible because of like the trust and the commitment and that people feel. Um, so yeah, Rania, I could see you nodding as well. The love affair of Middle Eastern art has evolved. Um, do you want to just tell us a little bit about that shift and how it's been so meaningful? Yes. So love affair. It's an interesting way of thinking about it. Um, I would say what's been, uh, very notable over the past year is there's been an enormous amount of attention on the global stage, on the region. There's been a huge emphasis on the region, which I've been here for fifteen years. When I moved here, it was kind of like, oh, what's going on there now? It's like, oh, it's everything. And how smart have you had to have been there early? And it's totally changed. The perception has really changed from the outside in terms of the visibility. There's been a lot of press, a lot of it, to be honest, I find very reductive. Uh, gold rush to the Middle East. Oh, no, it's a mirage. What's happening there? A lot of curiosity, but I really feel like a lot of it misses the point. Um, I think what's really evolved in a meaningful way here and where we really have the true love affair is to see how the ecosystem and the infrastructure has matured and solidified and become more sophisticated from the inside. Um, and that comes down to a community of serious collectors, dedicated art practitioners, from the curators to the academics to the scholars, and most importantly, the artists community, which is the beating heart of everything happening here. And that's been decades in the works. Um, and it's not, you know, a passing fad or trend or like new frontier or a place to be thought about in terms of consumption. It's really a center of artistic production, um, and not just of artworks, but ideas, um, and curatorial practice. Museum demography. And it's come from this part of the world and it's amazing to see that. So in a way, it's a little bit of a funny moment with what's everything that's going on in the world right now. I think we're having less of that kind of, um, I honestly think it's a bit of a colonial narrative of looking at this part of the world this way. Um, and I think that's a good thing. Let all of that noise disappear and people will really see that this region is not a fad. It's sustainable, it's built to last. It has serious depth of content. Um, and a real contribution to make, uh, on the, on the global sphere. Yeah. And that contribution is often reflected in the work that you work with. Do you want to just tell us, like, how do you feel Dubai is actually offering something a bit different to collectors? Yeah. I mean, as you said, Dubai and the UAE in general are obviously now a global hub when it comes to arts and culture. In less than two decades, we've seen the the birth of many global museums. For example, in Abu Dhabi, the birth of, um, you know, biennales in charge of, for example, non-profit foundations. And all these, you know, artistic ecosystem really helped the community to let emerge a new generation of artists and, you know, collectors. And when it comes to buying art here in the UAE, I think there is something very special about this idea of global art scene, because of course, Dubai, because of the the Arab diaspora here, uh, is able, you know, to have this link with, uh, with the region. We have, you know, many galleries from Palestine, many galleries from Syria, but also, you know, from other geographies. I'm thinking, for example, uh, from South Asia, I'm thinking, you know, of the Ishihara Foundation at Circle Gallery representing artists from Africa. And of course, you know, all the more, uh, let's say global trends. So I think we're all, you know, in this very interesting moment where the scene here in the UAE has been, you know, developing and reached this stage where, uh, you know, things are going well. And now I guess it will be interesting in the next few years to see how we'll manage to find this balance between, you know, the global and the local and how we'll be able to, you know, have a sustainable model to also, as you said, you know, empower the artist base here to also shape a new narrative about the region. I love that we're looking forward, but in a time where we've had some turbulence here in Dubai, and there was something that came up with our conversation before about our own emotional response to the war. Um, Omar, you had something really interesting to say about you, how you felt that this would impact Art Dubai and bring back something of intimacy to the affair. Yeah. I, um, I feel that, you know, in the past few years, of course, our Dubai has been, um, incredible. You know, as an event and as a space, um, for people to go and explore art, um, and maybe start, you know, collecting and, you know, a lot of people love going to art Dubai and it becomes quite the spectacle when, um, a lot of people actually are there. Um, so I think, um, that element of intimacy is going to be coming back this year because there aren't maybe as many galleries that are coming, but the people that are going to be going to Art Dubai are going to be the ones that are enthusiastic and supportive of the fair. Um, and they're the ones that are actually going to be, um, really considerate about the art that they purchase or the art that they admire, you know, so I think also that element of intimacy is important because then you get to actually build genuine connections, um, not only with, you know, the people around you, but also with the galleries. Um, you get to have important conversations with them, which I think, um, can really impact the way that you collect art. Yeah. I think that I'm hoping everybody here is going to be there. Of course. So we're all going to be there. Um, Dunya coming to you. So you have, as you said, many um, experience with other fairs. This is an unprecedented time we've just lived through. But how do you want buyers to react? How do you want the people to react that are coming to art to buy? Well, I think I would love for them to feel what I felt when I talked to galleries, if they want to do this. And it was so this excitement, you know, like I called the gallery from Palestine and they were like, Dunya I o Art Dubai so much. I owe the UAE so much. I will move heaven and earth and I will come, you know, like, I will drive from Palestine to Jordan. I will take a flight from there. Don't worry. Artwork is going to come. And really every gallery thought three times about which artists make sense here, where to put my effort in, what do I bring and how can I make it work? And how can we show that we are resilient and it's important to show continuity. And, um, and I think everybody who comes to the fair is going to feel that. And I would love for everybody to take the time. It's fifty calories. You can come every day, you can talk to everybody. And I think I would encourage really everybody to take time to talk to the galleries. I'm sure many of the artists are going to be there and to really, you know, like understand what people went through, why are they coming? What are the artists bringing? How do they respond to this moment? And, uh, to really feel, you know, like how important art is not just as decoration, but it really helps us also to understand what's happening in the moment or maybe to heal, you know, it's not just beauty. I think it's so much more. Yeah, I think that's really interesting. I think that this, as I said in my introduction, like this is about collecting stories and sharing those stories. And what an amazing time to be able to do that together. Remy, coming to you. How was this war actually impacted the next steps in your organization? Well, I mean, as you can guess, it was smiling. Yeah. You know, it was obviously a bit challenging. So, you know, at the Barjeel Art Foundation, we have more than two thousand works mostly, you know, made during the twentieth century covering the entire Arab world. So, you know, we have, uh, pieces dating back from the very early twentieth century. So, you know, during all the events happening here, the first mission for us was to really protect the, the, the collection. So we had to move the collection to a new place that was, you know, more secure in only a couple of days, you know, as custodians of the of the collection in this, you know, this sounds like a logistical nightmare. Yeah, that was yeah, a bit complicated, but everything is safe now. Um, so, you know, it impacts us first on these very internal, um, level. And then the second is, of course, you know, all the collaborations that we have. some. We have two types of activities. The first one is, you know, the exhibitions and the second one are the loans. So, you know, we've collaborated with many countries all across the Arab world. And, you know, we had a couple of loans and exhibitions that were planned for the spring and the summer. But, you know, obviously everything was a bit reshuffled. Some projects have been canceled, some of them are on hold. But, you know, at the end of the day, it was also a very interesting moment for us to also reflect and connect with institutions here in the UAE to also facilitate the circulation of artworks within the Emirates. So that's why I'm, you know, very glad to be part of the panel because we'll have Barjeel exhibition at the the the fair presenting, you know, more than twenty pieces, twenty masterpieces from the collection for the first time. So, you know, I guess it would be very exciting for us. Okay, so everyone here has the marker Over to you, dear. Everyone here has the marker. Oh, yeah. Coming to you. So Remi just touched upon the logistics and how that has been impacted by what's been going on in the region. So the galleries themselves must be talking to you about the risks that are involved right now and how that's rippling. I mean, I have to say, it was really logistically a challenge to produce this fair in eight weeks. You know, like you basically you have to start again, like with which galleries are coming, whether they're bringing how does the floor plan look like? Mhm. How does the programming look like? Alexey Glass, who is here, was really like, I mean, what, what she pulled off, you know, like in terms of programming is really amazing. So, um, I think that we had to talk with every gallery also again, like how, you know, like, how do you want to participate? How much space do you want? And what can you bring? And I think some works just couldn't be shipped. And there was naturally a focus more on regional artists, which is always an opportunity to like Tamar Green, for example, who was like, I'm not bringing my international artists, but I'm showing this like young Emirati female artist Huda al-Masri, who has like a solo exhibition with amazing work, which gives the opportunity to her in a way that probably she wouldn't have had otherwise had otherwise. So I think we will see other art that is more related to the moment and to the region, and but I still think there are also international galleries that don't that focus not only on artists that are from here, but somehow are connected in their practice. And I think it's something that is very important, um, that Art Dubai has always done and continues to do. And I think this is also important in this moment. When I was talking to Amal Khalaf about whether she wants to be the curator of Art Dubai and what Art Dubai means to her. She was like Dunya. I was schooled adapted by GAF. The global art forms called me and then Dubai. Dubai brought the world to us here. And I think to keep this momentum, I think is very important. And I think this is why it's important that we have both. Rania coming to you then this momentum, how is that translating then to you and what you do in your work? Um, I think you touched on some really important points. I think most, you know, as you said, I think it is an emotional moment. And I think it is I think we have to acknowledge that, you know, there are this is not a normal, fair context. This is atypical. Um, and I think it's okay to embrace that and kind of lean into it in a lot of ways, in the sense that yes, people are walking into this fair with a different, a different heightened emotional register. For sure. There are looming anxieties. There's a looming sense of uncertainty. You're a fair is a marketplace. You're there to, you know, look at things and possibly acquire things and buy them and spend money on them. And, you know, it really makes you ask all these questions, existential questions about why are we here? Why are we doing this? And it changes the way you approach art and maybe why you buy art. And I think that's actually a really good thing. I think when you, um, lean into those questions and you tune out, you know, there's going to be a lot less sort of air kissing at the fair, a lot less socializing you will spend, maybe you'll engage with fewer works of art, but you're going to spend more time with them. You're going to have more substantial conversations with the galleries. You're going to dig deeper. Um, you're probably not going to be listening as much to what everyone else is doing. And you're going to listen to yourself, which you will make better choices, and you will have clarity of conviction in your decision making, which is always the challenge, right? When you're in art fair, it's like, should I buy this? Should I not? And I think those answers will be much clearer to you. Like this doesn't feel resonant or this really resonates with me right now. And if it does, that's a really good thing. And if you, you know, I encourage people to spend longer with works. I think maybe don't just gravitate to the loudest things, but sometimes the quieter things, you know, things really good works of art take time. Um, they take time to sort of reveal their layers and unpeel those layers. And um, my other advice would be sort of to, I think the galleries, you know, I hope will be a little more generous with their time. You won't have this frenzied atmosphere where you have an hour to let us know if you'd like this, you know, maybe say to the dealers, can I, can I sleep on this till tomorrow? And I think they might be a little more forgiving. You know, some fairs are you don't have to feel the pressure of the snap decision making. And I think you're going to make better decisions in the long term. Um, so, you know, I, I think actually it's, it's a real blessing in disguise. I think it's a silver lining. And I think it's a moment where, you know, we were leading into this fair with so much speculation on the region. And I think that, you know, there is sort of a cliche that slowed down market or a smaller market is the healthiest market. And people really, when things slow down, people wise up and they make better choices. So I think that's going to be a it offers a really interesting, substantial opportunity. Rami, coming to you, are you hoping that people spend more time than taking in that artwork that you're going to have to offer? No, no, of course, obviously, you know, with all the all the weeks that we've been through, I guess it will be also for us at the moment to really, you know, go back to what really matters and see, um, you know, how to also connect with the, the art scene. I know, you know, it's been difficult also for galleries as much as many foundations and museums in the UAE to ship artworks and, you know, to make them available for the public. So, you know, I'm sure that with all these challenges, they were really able to focus on what really matters and hopefully the public. I really hope will feel that and we'll be able also to connect and, um, you know, to ask questions, as you said, like enter the booth, take time and really enjoy the moment. Omar, I'm going to come to you now. So you are not just an artist, you're also a collector. So how are you hoping now that this art Dubai this time is. How does it frame anyway? Your collection. But especially in this time, are you hoping more for this intimate connection that people are talking about? Absolutely. I'm, you know, I'm really looking forward to not panicking. You know. I've seen you've already got your eye on some pieces. So there are, you know, a couple of pieces that I have my eye on. But, um, I'm happy that I won't have to rush and make decisions right away, you know? Um, so I think, um, it's going to be quite a nice atmosphere, you know. Yeah. And does Art Dubai has, has it always played a part in your collecting experience? Has it been a significant part of that. Yeah, I think it has. I mean, um, some of my favorite pieces I've ever collected are from the fair itself. So, um, because I'm, you're exposed to so many things that you wouldn't usually see in galleries that are already here in the UAE. Right? Um, so all of these international galleries are coming from all of these places and all of a sudden it's like Pandora's box. Um, so, uh, yeah, some, some of my favorite pieces are from Art Dubai itself. Yeah. I'm excited. Um, Rania, earlier on, you actually touched upon the fact that there's more interest now in Middle Eastern art. Do you find that that's translating into purchasing, especially Emirati talent? Are we seeing any changes there? Um, absolutely. I think there's more interest in Middle Eastern art. I think there's also more interest in what the region is doing. Um. Curatorially. Um, in general, I can't tell you how many international major museums have mounted shows in the last five years, where the first time I encountered those artists were at Art Dubai or the Sharjah Art Foundation or Art Jameel. I mean, it's really, um, it's, there's no longer this I feeling that Middle eastern artists need to be kind of validated by the West or, you know, there were so many years where you talk to galleries, but this artist has, you know, was collected by the Guggenheim, New York, or had their first show at the Tate Modern or at Pompidou in Paris. And we don't really need to say that anymore. Those museums are looking at this region and what they're doing and their practices are being informed by what's happening here. So, um, I think, uh, it's completely there's been a total perception perception shift. Um, and there are incredible things that you encounter here and you really don't see anywhere else. And it's pioneered from this part of the world. Danielle, I can see you nodding. Is that what we're expecting then from this art Dubai as well, like, you know, a shift? Or is it just more of what we're used to or how? Well, I think it's interesting. I think we're seeing a shift, but I think we're definitely seeing a shift like in the international world and how they perceive the region. But I think at Art Dubai has always been like that. And when we talked before, I think, Ronnie, you said something that was stuck with me. And I think it was super interesting that like institutions like Sharjah Art Foundation, like they have always shown the artists first, you know, like you can really rely on them on like, like this is great art, you know, and I think that, um, this, really, this, this, we will see this also this year. Um, but there is a shift not only in that, but I think there is also something we talked about that there's a shift in what people want to buy these days. You know, like there is a generational shift there. So people want different things. There's also, I don't know, like how many people will follow the art market, but there is like a shift in like a wealth transfer shift, you know, like, so women at the moment, I think, hold thirty percent of the global wealth. In a few years, it will be fifty percent. And they collect in a very different way than men, you know, like, tell me how. So they're less they're less interested in like the big names. It's not so much about the investment. It's more about like identity. And they do more research, you know, like, and, and I think, um, so we will see a shift in what people are interested in. Um, and I think a lot of galleries, and I can say this from many, many committee meetings that I've been in, I was like, so what do people want these days? But I think it's really hard to say because I think people follow their guts more. It's not so much. And it's really like, what is meaningful to you? Um, yeah, that's going to be so exciting though, to see Remy, um, explain to me more about how Art Dubai plays such a central part of your life. Oh, uh, well, you know, at Barjeel, we collect works from all across the Arab world. And as I said, we had more than two thousand. We have more than two thousand works. And now in the collection. And, you know, when all Dubai started in two thousand and six, if I'm not mistaken. And, you know, there was also the first step for Sultan Al Qasimi, founder, to really start, you know, building a collection that really, you know, talked to him. And I was also talking about the region and, you know, I'm talking about Dubai more than twenty I mean, twenty years ago, uh, you know, we were also facing a lot of challenges in terms of the quality and professionalism of all the agents here, you know, just to get some art handlers to organize the fair. It was something challenging that, you know, we, we don't really think about now today. So, you know, since day one, uh, Dubai played a major role in shaping the Barjeel collection. And, you know, over the past few years, we managed to acquire a lot of, you know, major names, uh, from the region through the fair. And now we are also trying to investigate. And as you said, on researching new names and emerging talents that can also represent a new facet of this history of the of the region. So, Omar, is this going to be reflected in your own collection? Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, listen, I'm I'm, uh, I've just started collecting. I've just started my collecting career, right. So I've still, I'm trying to figure out a narrative as to how my collection is going to build up. You know, I think there is some kind of, um, path that it's taking, but I'm going to give it a few more years before I actually. And as an artist, do you go to Art Dubai just to gain inspiration? Oh yeah. Absolutely. I learned a lot of things from Art Dubai as well, from all of these other artists and from I mean, they're not necessarily things that I'm going to implement myself, you know, but it is inspiration. It's food for the mind when you're talking to different galleries that are enthusiastic about their artists as well. And they explain the process of how that art piece was made and how it was acquired and where it's been and why it's been there. Uh, it really, um, um, adds a nice thick layer of love that you have for that art piece. I think that's something that's coming out of this conversation over and over again, is this this is a moment to reconnect with the artworks, to reconnect with the galleries, with the artists themselves. And hopefully that intimacy will play into buying. Is that right? Yeah. One thing that I wanted to say is, um, when I talked to Bazaar, who has been like running the global Art forum for twenty years, uh, he said something that was like, um, people come to Art Dubai and they leave with something that didn't even know they were looking for. And I think this, like moment of discovery has always been like the center of art Dubai. And I think this we're going to see that also this year. I'm very excited. So now coming to the last. Well, one of the last parts of this conversation, I asked you all to prepare something just to like what you were actually looking forward to, to give you guys a bit of a sneak peek, um, for what people are looking forward to. Engineers actually prepared some slides for us. We're very lucky. Uh, so, um, well, as I said, you know, like this is a special edition, um, which is I think is only possible because the groundwork that Art Dubai has done over the last twenty years. And, you know, like that it became like this, this center, the commercial art capital of the region, um, where we have so many galleries here in Dubai, so many of them are here today also very thankful for their support. Um, and it's representing also the moment, I think there's a lot of if it wouldn't, if the circumstances would have been different, I think we wouldn't have seen so much collaboration. So this year, I think very special is we have um, a talks programme with the Guggenheim Abu Dhabi. We have a performance programme that we developed. We Alexei developed together with Sharjah Art Foundation. Um, we, uh, are, is doing moving image, uh, program for us. So I think there's a lot of things to do and see that you maybe wouldn't have seen otherwise. Um, and then, uh, some of the favorite, my favorite artworks, um, Abenbury gallery from London, uh, is bringing Douglas Abdell. I am extremely excited about this because Douglas Abdell was supposed to have a show, uh, in the nineteen nineties in Dubai. That was the work was already here and it was canceled because of the Gulf War. And now when we were talking to, um, but this fair, you know, like they were really on the fence whether they should come or not. But Douglas is extremely exciting that he can bring his work to Dubai now. And as are we. Uh, what a full circle moment. It's a full circle moment. I'm really super excited. And Dima Tsuji is such an amazing artist. You know, like, she talks a lot about heritage and how, you know, like maybe things that appear broken. Can we put can we put together again, it's a lot about healing. Um, and, um, so very excited about both artists, uh, being shown at the fair. Um, Saleh Barakat is bringing, uh, Nabeel Nahas, who is going to represent the Lebanon in the Venice Biennale this year. Uh, and this work is especially made for Dubai, so we are super proud to have it. Yes. Um, every gallery who you mentioned, you know, like who really bringing, you know, like a lot of like, uh, interesting artists, but also like African spirit, uh, and, and artists and movements to Dubai, um, are bringing up to like Canada. Uh, but also Maria Magdalena Campos-pons. She will also be represented in Venice. She had this amazing presentation in Alula And I think it's a beautiful work and many others. Uh, also for you to figure out, uh, Frank Elbaz is a gallery that is joining us for the first time. And I think it's really beautiful how they chose the artists and the artwork that they're bringing. Um, Kenjiro Okazaki is this artist that is basically redefining abstract. Um, and it's nearly three dimensional. It's super beautiful. And, uh, I think the image doesn't do it justice. Sheila Hicks is, uh, an American artist and you might think, but why is this relevant? But actually she was brought up, um, in the nineteen thirties in the USA in, in the US. And her father, you know, like there was the Great Depression and there was like no work. So they moved around and this, this experience of migration really like she, she took so much. It's like you can see it's still in her work. And then she basically she went to Mexico to study like, um, like with craftspeople there. She spent a lot of time in Morocco to, to understand like how rugs were made and so on. And you can all see this in her work. So I think there is actually a lot of connection and about the storytelling that I think is extremely beautiful. And then you have Mashiko Ogawa, who was, um, actually shown in the last Aichi Triennale that was um, curated by um hor al Kazimi. And this work is when you see it in person, it's insane. So I'm very excited about these three artists. Um, I didn't, I saw the work in person, but I only recently discovered discovered them. So, um, I would just like recommend everybody to pass by. Um, Galerie Isabelle I chose this because I think it's so beautiful. So. Mohammad Kazem, one of the very important voices conceptual artists of the UAE. Actually, this is the studio of Hassan Sharif that you see in this painting here. And right, Yasin. I chose it because there will be an entire wall of these works at the Venice Biennale, and it's an edition of two. And the second edition was produced just for the fair. Um, so it felt just very special. Um, Meem Gallery is doing a solo presentation of Dia Alazawi and it really became this survey. You find works from the sixties and 70s new work, but also drawings. Um, it's like, so I think it's extremely exciting. Um, the third line is showing among others, Farah Kazemi and these works are so she's also representing the UAE, are at the Venice Biennale. But also these works are works that are showing at a show at MoMA PS1 at the moment, and it's images that she's taken in the US, but taking pictures of the Arab community there. So I like it a lot. Um, Tamar Green, I talked about this. Ruda Al-mazrou she's like basically depicting landscapes, uh, in the Emirates where she grew up and she calls it this love letters to her childhood, you know, like, and where she grew up. Um, and last but not least, I got a gallery solo from Bucharest who is showing Adrian Pepe and Omar curated, uh, the presentation. But I think your work is also going to be in there that you're doing as a designer, so I will pass it on. Now, that's my last piece, and I will pass it on now to Omar to tell us maybe a little bit more about this. Well, not not too many pieces. We don't want it to get in the way of the artwork. You know, the art is the main, you know? But yeah, so I'll be curating a show with solo. Um, they're a gallery from Romania and we're quite enthusiastic about, um, Adrian Pepe. So we were going to showcase some other works by him, but because of everything that's going on, we figured, you know what, let's grab what we can have and showcase. But what you've grabbed is actually it's been because of how easy it is to transport, but also it's more archival. Is that correct? It is. Yeah. So some, some of his first works, you know, um, I, he, he works. Uh, do you want me to talk more about it? Yeah, I want to. Okay. Um, so, uh, what he does is he, uh, works with the wool of the sheep in Lebanon. Um, that's how he says it. I don't know how it's actually pronounced, so I'm sorry if there are any Lebanese people in the house. Uh, you can teach me afterwards. You can school me. Um, but, uh, he uses their wool. He felt that there's a whole process to his felting, and he does it very religiously. And he, um, celebrates the sheep in terms of their braids, in terms of, uh, you know, how, uh, uh, people keep their sheep as well. So, um, there's a difference and you can really tell in each and every single one of his tapestries and, uh, and some of his works, um, the kind of process that he's done to this wool, which I think for me is very interesting coming from an architectural background. I love it when you can see the process in art pieces. So I'm excited to, uh, hopefully show you guys what Adrian Pepe has to offer. I'm very excited to see it as well. Um, Rania, is there anything else that you're looking forward to? Remi. Is there anything that you want to highlight from things that you're excited to see? Yeah, I mean, I'm, I look very much forward, you know, to see the, the selection of works by Adrian Pepe. But, um, you know, I'm also very interesting to see the works that Gallery one from Ramallah will be presenting. So, you know, they are based in on the West Bank in Palestine, and they'll be presenting a selection of works by Nabila Hanani and Simon Mansour. So, you know, they are like these pioneers in Palestinian art, you know, active since the sixties. And 70s actually founded together the New Visions group, you know, during the first Intifada, in order to really, you know, create art from Palestine, made in Palestine, you know, uh, to trying to get rid of, uh, the occupiers, uh, economy. So, you know, Dunya was mentioning all the challenges in terms of shipment. And I think it's also very important for us to keep in mind, you know, that our colleagues and friends from Palestine, from Lebanon, or, you know, going through a lot and have been, you know, going through these for the past few decades. So I think it's very important for us to show support and to go and see see the booth. Just to add here, because that was actually the gallery I was referring to when I said, you know, like I called the gallery and they were like, we will move heaven and earth. That was gallery one. So yeah, I can only thank you for highlighting that. That's a really important message. Veronica. Um, I just think more generally, I mean, I think you've highlighted some really amazing works that really illustrate a lot of the things we talked about. Um, it's this like cross-pollination of geographies and not just geographies like hybrid identities within a single artist. So, and I think it's such a perfect reflection of what Dubai is, what the UAE is, what the institutions are doing, where it's not just like, okay, these are the Middle Eastern artists or here are the galleries from Latin America. It's like, what are the synergies between the two? You think you think of Maria Magdalena Campos-pons and her relationship to the way she's kind of channeling her ancestry in these, um, ritualistic traditions and the way Douglas Abdell is looking at. He has. He's Italian and Lebanese. Growing up in New York in the eighties, and he's looking at, um, the written word and the text from Etruscan and Phoenician histories and putting. So like this, this I'm look, I love the way it ought to be. You really feel like there's this sort of irreverence or freedom where we can kind of dip into these different identities and not feel like we have to be put in a box. Um, and that's really a mirror of what the fabric of the UAE is like demographically. It's a mirror of what the institutions have really pioneered. Um, if you go to the Louvre Abu Dhabi and you see like an Etruscan vase from, you know, Cycladic period with an Edo period, Japanese urn, and, you know, they really pioneered in terms of museum practices, looking at, um, art, art, historical narratives, not just, you know, this is what when you walk into the British Museum and it's like, here's the Greek and Roman galleries, here's the Egyptian gallery to look at these cross, um, these connections that maybe are less obvious, but they have more depth than really a surface level connections. And that's the beauty of what you're going to see in terms of the juxtaposition of the booths at Art Dubai. Um, not just in terms of like, wow, there's a gallery from Ghana, there's a gallery from Warsaw, there's a gallery from Manila, there's a gallery from Madrid, and where there's a gallery from Mexico City and the gallery from Ramallah. First of all, you don't see that anywhere else, really. I mean, I think a lot of fairs claim to be like, yes, we're so global. But at the end of the day, you're if you're one of those guys are probably like in a corridor at the end of like a corner or at a bigger fair. And then you have usual the same usual big, you know, really they're really rubbing shoulders up against each other. And it allows you to really think about these less obvious connections that have a lot more meaning and resonance. And I think that that's what I'm most excited about, is to have those kind of moments of discovery and start to, um, see those through lines and those threads. Thank you so much. And Omar, what are you most looking forward to seeing? Um, there's one piece I have my eye on. Talk to me. Um. No, I don't see what we can do. Don't you see what you can do? It's my dad's, actually. It's a it's a very beautiful piece. It wasn't in the presentation, so I'm happy none of you have seen it. Uh, but hopefully. Let's see if, um, I can make the gallery fall in love with me and, and and then, you know, give me a good price. I'm sure we can make that happen. Well, anyway, I would like to turn now to questions from the audience. But just before I do that, I just wanted to just highlight what you were saying. And I think what has resonated from this discussion, where this is Art Dubai, which is a story in itself, but one that often covers migration and connection, which has brought us all here tonight, which I think is a lovely, lovely thing. Thank you for listening to The Cultural Counter, a podcast by the Arts Club. You can explore more conversations from the series wherever you listen to podcasts.