Become a Chartered Accountant

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill: From Chartered Accountant to Creative Producer

• Chartered Accountants Ireland

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In this episode, Sinead Fox Hamilton sits down with Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill, a chartered accountant whose career now spans film, television and music production, including work on Other Voices. From training in a small Dublin firm to working in KPMG and later moving into media, Iarfhlaith shares how the qualification gave him the grounding, resilience and credibility to follow a creative path. One of the standout moments is when he describes chartered accountancy as “the great enabler”, a foundation that can open doors well beyond traditional roles. Honest, thoughtful and full of personality, this episode is a powerful reminder that chartered accountancy can be a springboard into the industries you care most about.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

You're being thrust into a scenario where it actually enables you to pursue whatever you want to do. It is a grounding.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

So this is the Become a Chartered Accountant podcast. I'm Shania Fox Hamilton, and I am talking to chartered Accountants doing interesting things. And in this episode today we have Iarflaith O Domhnaill, and he is an interesting one because he's not only a chartered accountant, but a film, TV, and music producer. Yes, you heard that right. Iarflaith, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. I need to know about this journey because it's an unexpected one. Tell me your story.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Thank you, Sinead. My journey. Where does it start? Really, I suppose, um, when you, when you leave university, you know. You're still looking for that meaning of what you want to do in life. Um, me in particular, I had started, I, I began university at 17, so I was quite young. It was 2014, the height of the recession in Dublin. Uh, and I finished my business economics, social studies degree in business and politics, and looking at the environment at that time. The jobs market was extremely flat, to say the least. Um, a lot of people my age were immigrating.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Mm-hmm.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Um, I suppose what I was looking for was to do something that would give me, well, the degree was fantastic. Yeah. Give me something that was tangible, uh, in terms of a skillset and a bank of experience that I could then use for whatever I wanted to. And, um, that's when I made that decision way back when, uh, to pursue the charter accountancy route. And, um, I was very lucky in my family that I had a, my father worked in business and still does, who had, he had always mentioned having done a diploma later, uh, in life, in in accounting, how much, how much that it had helped him in business. So I. I suppose I had that piece of advice also that was very helpful, you know, and, and a brother who, who also, uh, went and pursued, uh, a charter accountancy, uh, profession and who had been buying me a lot of coffees and had been going on nice holidays. And I said to myself, how are you doing that?

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

How you tell me more about that?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Yeah. So, um, that's how it all started, I suppose.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

And I would love to know about, I suppose then your training and your journey through, so you decided chartered accountancy was for you. Where did you train?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Yeah, I, I remember at the time, I won't call it, well, I will call it a rat race that, you know, it was highly competitive. Uh, I remember third level and seeing all of my peers applying to big four companies, applying to multinationals, uh, and taking up quite, you know, um. Roles within bigger, bigger firms. Yeah. I suppose at the time, I dunno where I got this idea from, that I had this, I made a conscious decision. I didn't make one application to any of the bigger practices or firms. It was more of I want to get into a small firm that works with SMEs here in Ireland. Yeah. That. Probably I, I don't want support. And not that they don't give you support. Yeah. But I, I want to be thrown into the deep end. Yeah. Very, very quickly. 'cause I'll get restless otherwise. So I mean, I, it was a very conscious decision then to join a smaller firm and, uh, very lucky to have trained. With a firm. At the time, they were known O'Brien Harnett. Okay. And they were based in Dublin, four on Haddington Road. They've since merged with Sherry McNab and Murray and became Walsh obrien. Harnett a fantastic training firm. So yeah, that's how it all started. I'm sure everything in between is, is, uh. Everything in between was a learning curve and a steep one, which was, which I'm really grateful for.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

And do you mind me asking probing a bit more, like, what was that like? Because often we get asked questions like that here at Chartered Accountants Ireland. What's it like training in a smaller organization? How did you find that?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

I'm not gonna lie. It's really hard. Uh. But I wanted it to be hard. It's, but I think it's, it's like anything in life that you do for it to be rewarding, it has to be difficult. You have to get through something. And, uh, it was like that for me. As I said, I was extremely young, highly immature, I'm sure, you know, and, um, but as a training, it was just fantastic. I, I, I've just, I look back now and I, I do think of, you know, there were hard days. There were long days whereby. I found I wasn't getting it and I was, you know, it was tough when you're doing your exams at the same time, but it's when that, it's like riding a bi bicycle. Yeah. And when you do get that, you get the nub of it, uh, and you come out the other side. That's where it became so rewarding for me and in terms of my development, uh, not only in terms professionally, but as a human as well. Yeah. I think it was massive for me. Um, it gave me the confidence. That I could do it myself, that I wasn't relying on a bank or a team of people to do it for me. That I had to do it and the responsibility was on me and that I was reporting to partner level. And I think, you know, that is really something that people should think about. Um, so yeah, deeply like an enjoyable time too, because you're not a. A small fish in a massive sea, you know, you're, you're getting to know everyone in the organization and that that can be people from all different walks of life, different backgrounds, doing different things. You're in an agile firm that's dynamic. You've got a wide variety of clients who need you to do it for them. 'cause they aren't actually, they may not be able to do it themselves. Usually in the bigger firms, you're handed something and you have to check it. Whereas a lot of my work was providing advice. Analyzing, uh, helping people make decisions. And I was doing that from very, very early on. And thankfully I was empowered to do that by the firm. And yeah, I, I've absolutely no regrets about that

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

incredible training ground. I know I totally resonate with everything that you say. Um, lots of exposure getting. Stuck in, you know? Mm-hmm. Which is brilliant. I'm interested to know, once you qualified, what happened next?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Mm-hmm. Oh, yes. Like what happened next? I immigrated No, no, no. What's

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

next? Tell me more.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

I think I emigrated, uh, what happened next? Um, all of a sudden I was like mature and, uh, yeah. Yeah. I really knew what I was doing in life, not like what? Yeah. So, uh, I qualified, I think it was back in 2017 now. So that's what, oh my God, nearly nine years since, uh, I qualified.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

You're only

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

a

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

pop.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Thank you. Doesn't show for it. But, um, I then, so after probably not long after qualifying, after everything I've said, I said, okay, now I have this bang. It's like, you know, to go back on your first question, it's like if you were to play music, if you're playing football. I had the basics then, you know what I mean? I had the nuts and bolts. Mm-hmm. So now I said, okay, now I have all this bank of knowledge. Let's go and bring that into a bigger theater amphitheater. Let's, let's, let's try this out With the dial firms dial up. Yeah. Let's, exactly. And, uh. I kinda still wanted to work within a, an environment whereby I was working with SMEs, but then multinationals as well as that. And so I joined KPMG. Then, uh, I think it was early 2018, I joined KPMG after a trip to Vietnam, which was, it was a good shock to the system, you know, coming home from Vietnam and starting in the Stokes place the next day. That was good fun. But, um, yeah, so I had a brilliant time at KPGA different experience. Mm-hmm. Um. Again, very steep learning curve. I mean, I mean, if you're not learning every day, you're, you're probably seeing yourself, what am I doing?

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Yeah, yeah.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

You know, that's, that's probably where I was coming from. And there were times again whereby I was like this, I'm not, I'm not getting this. I'm not, I'm not doing so well here. I'm, you know, you reflect, you take a look at yourself, but great colleagues, great clients, uh, a wonderful social scene as well. Absolutely. Uh, which is important.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

We're not boring. Who knew?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

No, no. And, and we don't have to even keep saying it to ourselves. I know. So, uh, you know, uh, so I had a great time there. I got promoted, which was great again, but that small firm experience meant that I could maybe stand out or at least take on some of the harder jobs. Mm-hmm. That I was probably willing to roll up the sleeves a bit. And whilst Jeanie, maybe they think, no, no, you were awful. But, uh, I like to think that I rolled up my sleeves and got stuck in a bit, you know? So at a fantastic time in, in KPMG. Very grateful for it. Yeah.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

And what happened next? Tell me more. I'm on the edge of my seat. I want the next chapter.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

What happened

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

next? Because I know where you are now. Yeah, yeah. Tell us more. Yeah,

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

no one else knows. It's, uh, it's, uh,

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

we're revealing it slowly.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Slow reveal. Yeah. But

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

it's worth it, guys. Stay tuned.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

What happened next? Um. I suppose at that point, you know, you're, you're getting 27, 28, you think at that time that you're really old and that you're like, oh, no. Uh, but I said to myself, you know, I haven't, I hadn't explained this previously that I'm a musician in my, my spare time. Um, I speak the Irish language. I come from a, a background where I was in it. I was probably in and around, uh, at a, a media environment quite a bit, true music. And I had this probably itch I would call it to pursue. I said to myself, okay, I'm 27, shit, shit, shit. What am I gonna, okay, if I don't do this, try this now, I won't.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Yeah.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

You know? Next thing, next thing you're talking about mortgages and you'll never make a mortgage. All of

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

those things that come with adulting. I know

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

music scene is great, but you may not get a mortgage. I'm only joking. Um. So IS it was, how do I call this? A leap of faith. Some would've called it a walk off the plank, um, that I decided, hold on a minute. This is great. All this experience. Uh, I had a great time in KPMG, but I actually want to pursue a career in media. It kind of, maybe more philosophically speaking, I, I said to myself. I want to make a contribution to Irish public life, and I want to do that. Through the language, through music, through the media, and how am I gonna go and do that and what's the best route to do in that? And, uh, that's when I decided to pursue. I left my much to my parents' dismay. I left that job in KPMG and uh, I pursued a higher diploma in film media and television production through Irish. Uh, it was a course connected with, uh, Waterford Institute of Technology and TG Kahar. Who had supported it as a national broadcaster. So yeah, that was, that was an interesting time telling people what, and you know, it was, I do, uh, you know, I would've been receiving advice to say, do you know what you're doing? And I kinda said, well, not really. No, but I'm gonna go, go do it anyway 'cause I'm half thick, you know?

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Oh, not a bet.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Not a bet. So, um, yeah, that was, it was very interesting time.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

I would suggest, if you don't mind me saying, so that this would be an unexpected move for people to assume that a chartered accountant might go into the creative industries. Has your qualification supported you in this shift? In this pivot

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

ultimately, yes. 100%. Um, I always think of having a qualification. It's a, it's a rubber stamp naturally. You've built up this Bank of expertise skills network. Yeah. Uh, but the expertise is crucial. It sometimes is almost like a shortcut to the top table if you're good enough, if you're committed, if you're resilient. And yeah, it, it's definitely helped me because, um, a bit, you know, like, like every other industry, media in particular is tough. Really, really tough. And it's very difficult for people to progress. And to progress quickly. Whereas I was lucky, I suppose I had, I had something to fall back on and I had something else that was different that I could bring to the table. Um, that people said, oh, alright, you've got your, your charter account. Okay. Would you mind helping me with this and that? You know, so like, I mean, in all walks of life you need to manage. Money. You need to resource things financially and need, you need to report on that. So whether that be, uh, you're in a sport environment, whether you're in a not-for-profit when you're in the entertainment industry, it all comes down to brass tacks and pardon the pun. So yeah, it's, it's, it's been crucial. It's, um, it would've taken me a lot longer to get to where I am now. Uh, had I not got it. I think

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

that's a, that's a really nice way to put it and I would love your thoughts around key skills. Um, I suppose whenever I certainly talk about the profession and try and showcase it and debunk some of the myths that it's all being counting and number crunching. 'cause people still assume that. Is there any particular skills that you think are. Pivotal, um, and that you've certainly seen amplified through your journey, um, as a chartered accountant?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Yeah. There's, there are skills I, I dunno, I call it, rather than a bank of skills. I call it a mindset. Um, but it's probably skills as well. Uh, I suppose a resilience, you know, to get through the process. I'm not gonna lie to everybody. It is difficult.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Oh, it's hard. It

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

is. It is. Yeah, it

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

is.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

It is.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

I've been there dumb that got the teacher. I know. I know.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

But I mean. As I said, it's so, you need to be challenged. And when you come through it, that's, that's something that you can fall back on. It's a mindset within terms of a healthy skepticism. And you need that, not just if you're an auditor or an accountant, you need that everywhere you go because there's a big, bad world out there. Yeah. Uh, so a healthy level of skepticism, like for me, like I'm probably. Slightly on the neuros, spicy side of things in terms of I've got a creative side of my brain and I'm, you know, when I was, as I said, I was young, I was immature, I was probably lacking organization, lacking the attention to detail. And by going through the process, by doing all those things, by doing exams, by training, by earning your, your, your craft. Um, I became an organized person. I become very attention to, you know, well I try and have an attention to detail. Yeah. That's, um, that's the bare minimum when you, when you qualify and so, yeah. And then skills, I mean, everyone talks about Excel and all that. It's not just Excel. No. And particularly now in an environment today, whereby you'll find a lot of people are being fed information through technology, through ai. But it's about when you go through the qualifications as a charter accountant, you are skeptical of AI naturally. So it's a healthy relationship with the machine rather than machine dominating you and you get to use it to your advantage to leverage it rather than it leveraging you and it feeding you information you'd consume in that. Okay, let's go here. So. Skill sets for sure, experience mindset, and um, it's kind of like winter training. If you're in a football environment, I think of it as a, it's pouring rain down on you and you're, uh, you're in the mud and you're, you're training really hard and someone roaring your face. No one's roaring your face. It's great. You've got a lot of support, but then. You come into spring and uh, you get to play a bit of championship football. I dunno, I've really that reward, that coffee's really

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

reward. No, I hear what you're saying. You've reaped the rewards of all that graph and it's something I typically, when I'm talk to charter accountants, they're really proud of Mm. Because of the, the hard graph that is involved. It's worth getting that credential. We talk about it as a business leadership passport. Would you agree with that?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

I think so. I think, uh, the, a CA qualification for business leadership. Definitely, um, the ability to analyze, to take a step back to look behind the curtain.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Yeah.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Um, and then in the sense that you're probably, because you go through a firm environment or most people do, you go through different levels and stages in your career. Um, there is a pathway and then you actually end up, like in KPM GI got to manage people for the first time, which was. Yeah, and you're managing your clients and you're also managing the partners in the sense that you're managing your relationship with partners and reporting to them in a way that feeds them information the best way possible so they, that they can make decisions. And, uh, oh, 100%. It's, um, it's a win-win, really. I don't, I don't, I genuinely don't see the ba any. Why wouldn't you?

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Yeah. Why wouldn't you? Yeah. Tell me more about the day job. What do you get up to? What does a week look like for you? Yeah.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

I am currently, I work as a producer at South Wind Blows. Who produced The Other Voices Festival in Dingle, in West Wales and in other locations, uh, as it happens. And, uh, I'm executive producer mainly on the other Voices piece. Uh, and then I produce a lot of our feature film content or just standard programming for RT and TG Kahar. That's, that's the day job. And it can look very, very different. Day on day. It can be, um. Raising finance for a film project. It can be speaking to artists about performing, uh, at the festival. It can be reporting to, to funders, it can be on the business development side, uh, working with commercial sponsors to, to attract investment. And so a very varied role at the moment.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

I love that. Really bring into life that chartered accountants on and not all traditional in nature. Fabulous. Tell me a bit more about, I suppose, um, other voices. I wanna know more about that.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Um, yeah, it's very,

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

your involvement is pretty cool.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Oh, thank you. Um, well, I suppose other voices itself just explain. Um, I mean, I, as I said, I, I was a mu growing up as a musician and a really passion for Irish music in particular, and ever since I was a child, uh. Other voices and the company South Wind Blows Originally Hummingbird were, they were the pinnacle for me in terms of, uh, the company founders. Philip King and New O'Connor made a series way back in, it was probably released in the early nineties, uh, called Bringing It All back home for the BBC. Uh, tracing the movement of Irish Music to America and back. And I remember my parents taping that series. They, uh, they won, no, O'Connor actually won an Emmy for, for the series itself. Um, featured all sorts of great artists like, uh, U2, um, Paul Brady. It was just a fantastic series at the time. And. It feels, it feels quite special for me as a then, as a musician, you know, as I was, I was nine years of age or 10 years of age, and I was interviewed for a series that the company were doing for, it was TGK or rt. RT at the time. And I remember seeing this, as I said, the Envi Media environment, seeing these people, uh, and seeing how it all worked. And I was very young at the time, so it's come full circle for me. So what is, what is other voices? It's kind of. It's not your, it's not a typical music festival. It's, um, it began in 2001 as a set of concerts filmed to take a picture with a camera of some brilliant artists in a small church in, in remote West Kerry in Dingle. And it started with, uh, the frames were on the first episode. Uh. Damien Rice was on that first se, maybe Damien Rice, season one, season two. And at the time, uh, they do tell me that it was difficult to get people to come into the church, to even have people to sit so that it didn't look like it was an empty room, you know? So it's an interesting that 25, late years later, were in the, our 25th anniversary this year, that it's grown into a kind of a globally recognized brand, and that whilst an ordinary music festival. You know, it's, you go, you consume the experience. It's a live event. You go home and that's it. What we do is we're filming, primarily filming is capturing that, that picture of those artists celebrating what's about to happen in terms of the best of emerging Irish music. Uh, and then, and then caption what's about to disappear in terms of those grits that are, you know, um, probably older in age. Um, so that's. It's, it's a very, very special thing. I'm deeply honored. Yeah. To have the opportunity to work there. An incredible team. And, um, yeah, as I said, I suppose every day it's not work for me and it's, I. I really, I could do it seven days a week. And I, I don't say that lightly, as in I probably in some capacity, I'm doing something with music. Um, it's, it's kind of when, when something's your passion, you don't really think about it and it's, it's kind of a flow state that you get into and it's a great place to be. And so the role I have then within the organization, having done the diploma in media production, I've kind of fallen into this, uh, I'm kind of. Fun is this role whereby, you know, like the producer is, is a key cog in making a television show or a film happen in the sense that you're there at the start trying to raise finance. You're there in the middle, curating, uh, trying to logistically make it all happen. And then you're there in the post-production trying to put the story together and to, and then you're there at the very end as if to do the financial reporting at the other side. So. I, it's, it's kind of been a, a Marion of two roles of finance production and then a passion of music That, and Irish language as well. That's been, it's been quite, um, it's just been. It's been quite, quite useful for me in that role. So my role at other Voices primarily is as executive producer, is to try and ensure that we can survive. Last year it was survive until 25, and it's, it's always about, you know, we're a small SME, it's about raising finance to make sure that we are in West Kerry on the last weekend of November, first into December every year, and that we can bring, you know, we can have 140 gigs across the town of Dingle. We can bring the likes of cma, the Hoosiers, Derma Kennedys, whatever you have into this little church. 'cause it, people think like, you know, commercially, it doesn't make sense. Like there's, you have 86 people in this church and they do No, no, there's no charge in the tickets. You, it's, um, it's a, it's a different business model and one, which I love.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Amazing. Well, I have you in the hot seat. No gatekeeping. Any gossip, any, any divas, any celeb stories? Can you divulge?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

No, not at all. Not at all. No. What

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

stay, what happens in dingle stays in Dingles.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Fair enough.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

When the cameras are switched off, all the great stuff happens. Now I'm only joking. Um, listen, it's, it's, it's like this. I mean, I was, before I joined other voices I worked with, um, the Irish Tradit music Archive. I had a, I was blessed to have that, this opportunity to work with, you know, like the likes of Christie, Muir Ray, Pete from Lancome, Brendan Gleason, Aiden Barry of an amazing visual artist. And, um, yeah, so I mean, it's funny, I think that, uh, you would think that charter accountancy is about, some people think that it's putting on a suit every day and walk into a boardroom and that, that, that you're kind of behind a computer all day, but. Actually, for me, it's been the perfect bridge into a career. That's my, been my dream job. So, and this is what we're here to talk about today, and um, I can only encourage people to pursue that. You know,

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

there is definitely still a legacy myth that this is boring. It is dull, it is number crunching. It is bean counting, counting. What would you say to those people?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

The world isn't black and white. What did I say to those people? I mean, um, I have to think about that.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Oh no, take a moment. It's, I think it's just the misconception. They assume calculators, they assume Excel spreadsheets and ma and that's it. They don't lift their head up and see it as a wider. Dynamic profession and it's international as well, like we've members right across the globe.

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Yeah.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

This is more than I think, the shoebox of receipts that maybe people still assume that that's, you know, just the snapshot, what the visual they have in their mind's eye, whereas your story brings it to life. You've already told me all this, but I suppose it's just if somebody's considering this profession and they have got caught up in the boring myth. Have you any thoughts around what you'd say?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Yeah, I think it's kind of, my thoughts are gathering here. Can you think about it on a humane level? First of all, it develops you as a human. You know, like you, you, I, I know I keep repeating myself probably about that experience and developing a resilience. Uh, of course it's not just that you're, you're being thrust into a scenario where it actually enables you to pursue whatever you want to do. It is a grounding. And I mean, the thing is now with, with AI and technology, the number crunching stuff, that's less of it. And it's more the interpretation and, and looking at something. And I, again, with that healthy skepticism saying, hold on, how do I make this decision here? And so I, I see it as the great enabler. I don't see it as, you know, every day as a number crunch. No. In fact, because you have the, the qualification, um. Someone's more likely to ask you for your opinion as to what do you think you would do here? And as opposed to, can you count that? So I think that's the way I would look at it.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Has anything surprised you about the profession?

Iarfhlaith Ó Domhnaill:

Like I suppose what, what could surprise you maybe is that. And whether you like it or not, and you're going to like it, it's a label that you're not going to want to discard in the bin here. Like this is something, it's a stamp of approval. It's a certification that you have got to a certain level of a high, high qualification that immediately gets like a shortcut for people to say, all right, oh, you did that. Okay. Oh, right. It's a, so I suppose that element of that has surprised me. It's like I find myself, uh. Sometimes having to say, you, you know, I passed those charter accountants exams a few years ago. It does help. And so maybe that in terms of maybe, yeah, like in terms of maybe I was one of those people, I was maybe concerned at the start that it would be the number crunch and, and then maybe I thought even I wasn't as good at numbers as, you know, as other people. But there is so much more to it and, um. That in itself was a pleasant surprise, I think.

Sinead Fox Hamilton:

Well, I have loved having the chats with you, Yola. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. It has been a delight. So folks, thank you for tuning in. You can catch more conversations like this on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You can also check us out on the Chartered Accountants Ireland YouTube page, and please visit. Become a chartered accountant.com for more careers, inspiration and chartered content. Until next time, we'll see you soon.