The Other 6 Days
As the church, we spend most of our thought, time and effort working towards our weekend gatherings; with the majority of our lives being lived outside of Sundays. The Other 6 Days Podcast is designed to help us be more intentional about the ways we can "show up" for the gospel the other 6 days of the week.
The Other 6 Days
The Power of Story | The Other 6 Days | Episode 29
Ever wondered why the power of storytelling is so universal? On this episode of The Other Six Days, join me, CJ McFadden, as I sit down with my good friend and dynamic high school ministries leader, Hunter McMillan. Known for his incredible communication skills and film expertise, Huntr brings a fresh perspective on how God instills storytelling as a way to connect us all. We kick things off with some rapid-fire questions, uncovering his love for movies, ranging from "Pulp Fiction" all the way to the emotional impact of "The Passion of the Christ."
Finally, we delve into the profound significance of John 21:25 and the narrative power of biblical storytelling. Hunter and I discuss why humans resonate deeply with the hero's journey and the importance of believers sharing compelling stories to communicate deeper truths. We wrap up with some heartfelt encouragement for listeners to take actionable steps in their communities to further the gospel. Don't miss this enriching episode filled with laughter, insights, and inspiration!
For more information or to join the conversation, head over to https://southwestchurch.com/theother6days or email us at theother6days@southwestchurch.com
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There's so many people who don't know Jesus. But you were created by the Father, who imprinted onto you storytelling elements and I think that's the, that's like the internal draw that draws people. Yeah, yeah, because you were created by the almighty storyteller, so how could it not be in you?
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the other six days podcast, where we chat about life outside of Sundays and what it means to live from our gatherings, not just for them.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, CJ McFadden, and I'm here today with special guest, my friend and fellow Southwest staff member Hunter McMillan.
Speaker 2:What is up. Cj Dude, so glad to have you here today. Oh man, I'm so stoked. We're going to have a good time, right. Oh yeah, the best time. Hunter gets the privilege to currently lead our high school ministries here at Southwest Church and oversees weekly gatherings, events, camps, groups, fundraisers, you name it but the overall spiritual discipleship of our high schoolers right now. He's a very talented communicator with a background and degree in film which makes him the perfect guest for our conversation today. Hunter, how are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm good. I wow, what an honor. You said I'm a good communicator, that's so sweet CJ. After this last weekend, man, you are top shelf. Well, I got to tell you what, uh, all your help behind the scenes is very much valued and appreciated, and I just want to tell you. I was waiting to wait till the cameras are rolling dude.
Speaker 1:Um, you have such a beautiful mind, man, and I just you always are gassing me up about my skills to communicate. I always just want to remind you, dude, you are a genius man. You have genius level mind. Your writing is fantastic. Just your mind for the gospel is next level, dude. And that has been other than getting to watch Pastor Ricky. Those things have literally been like the single greatest additions to my life in terms of making me a better pastor. Your mind is razor sharp, dude, and I am blessed by you constantly. Cj is my Paul. For those of you that don't know that, he's like my, he's like my daily mentor guy and, uh, I just adore you, dude.
Speaker 2:I adore you, thank you for letting me be your Paul, and you're my Timothy man and I just, I absolutely, uh, love it. You're the most, one of the most teachable people I've ever met in my life and I just value that. And, man, you're gonna make me blush. That's awesome, well, dude? Well, anyway, so let's jump in and I want to start off. We always start off the podcast with something a little bit fun, right, cool. And so we're going to start off with some rapid fire questions and then jump into some background and insights that you've got for us today. But you ready? Okay, let's do it All right, right, softball pitch on the first one, okay, favorite movie of all time oh, the first one, uh, that comes to mind is pulp fiction.
Speaker 1:Okay, right off the top it's.
Speaker 2:I know it's yeah, sorry guys don't watch it if you're under. Yeah, hey, I get it, quentin tarantino right, the quentin tarantino is the guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, I know um, but said every young man in his 20s.
Speaker 2:I had a feeling that might be it, but yeah, no, that's good Mine's Braveheart, I did this one. I mean, ricky talked about freedom. Yeah, it's got all the pieces for me, so mine are probably. All of my answers are probably going to be a little older than yours maybe.
Speaker 1:Are you a historic? Are you a historic movie? I guess we'll find out.
Speaker 2:But you're a historic movie guy. Pop culture I'm just a big Mel Gibson guy. So now, if you could pick only one movie, tv show or documentary or literary piece to pass on, to show your future kids or generations, what would it be? Only one, and you can't say the Bible, because I expect that from you. Yeah, the Bible, yeah Dang.
Speaker 1:Okay and I've got your answer is really good because your answer is actually practical. Just because I have in front of me you put the passion of the Christ. That's really good. Because your answer is actually practical. Just because I have in front of me you put the passion of the Christ. That's really good. Because the truth is, I mean, the passion of the Christ obviously encapsulates the story of the gospel, but when the script was being written for that film, they drew primarily from the gospel of John and so notoriously the gospel of John is said to be, if you can only have one gospel like John would be it.
Speaker 1:So it makes sense to me that, like if I didn't have the Bible and other than my ability to talk, if I had to have something to pass along with me, the Passion of the Christ is probably a pretty good one, nice, because it actualizes the story of the Bible right in front of you in ways that people like are not usually ever ready to handle Well the emotion that it evokes right.
Speaker 2:Regardless of how you feel on either side of that like you can't go away from that, I think unchanged in some way.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's funny. I have a funny story about the passion. The first time I watched it I was in the seventh grade and it had such which probably don't let your 12 year old kid I don't know, maybe, but I was like 12 or 13 when I watched it and it literally had such an impact on me.
Speaker 1:I had just come back from camp as a middle schooler, yeah, and me and my dad watched it and I after sounds so funny Now that I'm saying it I've never told you this. I don't think I watched that movie and I committed to my dad. I said, listen, this movie has now made me want to watch the Bible in a year, or not watch the Bible. Read the Bible in a year and I'm going to shave my head. And I'm going to keep my head shaved until I finished the Bible. And I kid you not, for the first six, seventh grade dude, I was this chubby little cue ball walking around campus. Oh my gosh, and all my friends, what is wrong with you? I'm reading the Bible and I had my year Bible and eventually I I puttered out after about halfway. Um, but that's a fun story about the passion that, yeah, that happened in my life. I watched it and was like dad, I got to read the Bible and I'm going to shave my head.
Speaker 2:It changes lives, people. It does All right. Well, next one best plot twist in a movie ever, oh, I think iconic plot twists.
Speaker 1:Oh well, dang. Okay. So there's the actual best plot twist in movies actually ever is the original Planet of the Apes, yeah, when obviously he finds out that he's on Earth. Earth, that is the best, is the original Planet of the Apes, yeah, when obviously he finds out that he's on Earth. Earth, yeah, that is the best. My favorite plot twist of all time Dang Dang.
Speaker 2:I don't want to spoil it. I was going to say I think we have some spoiler alerts in here too, Spoiler alerts for days.
Speaker 1:The saddest, the most impactful movie that I saw in all of film school was a movie called Atonement. Okay, and it's a romance love story. Anyway, the ending of it is a twist ending and I was not ready for it. And it punched me in the gut because spoilers they don't end up together.
Speaker 2:And I wasn't expecting that.
Speaker 1:What about you? What are some of yours?
Speaker 2:I put Plot Twist Ever was your typical is the Sixth Sense. So for me, like I got caught off guard, it was one of those. I was like into it and I was like when, I think, when the ring dropped, I was like, oh man, but actually the midnight shamalan's, the village, oh dude, just listened, watching and then all of a sudden they client, they get out of there and I'm like, wait, they're in the middle of a city. You know, it just was one of those ones that you're like.
Speaker 2:Oh, you got me you know, so those were good for me the trailer to that movie.
Speaker 1:Uh, had a real. It came out. I think. That movie came out 2004 and I was in the second grade and I remember seeing that trailer and like not being able to sleep. It was horrifying.
Speaker 2:And then you see the movie and you're like, oh, that's not that scary actually. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's part of what it was too.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, all right. What, uh? What is the movie that you love that everyone else hates? Oh?
Speaker 1:that you get the most flack for probably. Oh man, I'm going to hurt a lot of my friends right now, so the one that immediately comes to my mind is a cheaper by the dozen to not even the first one, the second one specifically, where they go to summer camp. My wife's laughing at me behind the camera. Not the first one, Specifically the second one. They go to summer camp. They compete against the Murtaugh's in the camp games.
Speaker 1:And guess what they have to give up. They give up because one of them is having a kid goes into labor.
Speaker 2:It's very beautiful. Yeah, it's a family movie.
Speaker 1:The real answer in this one. Like I can already hear my film school friends wanting to shoot me. Me and my dad might be the only two people to ever live that actually like the original Dune movie by David. Lynch. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, With you know the outfits with the squares and the worms.
Speaker 2:It is a weird movie. Weird movie sucks, but like God, I love it.
Speaker 1:Um, and it's just one of those memories of me and my dad of like it's him showing his my dad's a sci-fi nerd and it's like showing his son like this super terrible nerdy B sci-fi movie. That actually wasn't a B sci-fi movie, it was an a movie, but it just wasn't good. Yeah yeah movie. It was an a movie, but it just wasn't good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so I would say dune, that's funny. Oh, that's great. Mine I've said it on here before mine's water world everyone gives me. I like water world also dude, I just I always tell everybody they're like the smokers, the jet skis, like the old, like it was, just I don't know, it's just a cool max in the ocean yeah, mad max in the ocean, kevin costner with gills that's cool. That's cool. I thought it was cool. So what's the worst movie ever made?
Speaker 1:Oh, probably the movie I made in my freshman year.
Speaker 2:No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1:The literal worst movie ever made is. I mean, it's got to be the Room. Have you seen the Room or heard of it? Is it that one? There you go, gosh, I can't think of the guy's name now. I should have studied before. It's cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap. Come on, mark. Anyway, a movie, a spinoff movie, called the Disaster Artist by James Franco and Seth Rogen got made about the making of that film. Oh, it's like, oh, tommy Wiseau, okay, this random guy no one knows where he's from is very secretly, independently wealthy and funded himself this like $5 million movie, and it's just abysmal.
Speaker 2:It just tanked yeah, yeah, but it's like a cult classic kind of though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so bad, it's good. And so it's gathered a following. He's definitely made his money back now, but the worst movie I've ever paid to see was a film called Kidnapped, with Halle Berry in it.
Speaker 2:Oh really.
Speaker 1:It is awful. It is awful and you forget. I mean, catwoman was bad, but you forget that this girl's won an Oscar yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh man, yeah, you would think it could be Okay. I could see that. What about you? Worst movie? Mine was Little Nicky with Adam Sandler. Oh my gosh, it's just, it's just bad news.
Speaker 1:And that was like in an era where Adam Sandler was just hitting bops, dude, he had the best movie or, you know, at the time, the best movies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he couldn't go wrong, but he did with that one.
Speaker 1:So wait, Happy Madison or Happy.
Speaker 2:Gilmore or Billy Madison. Billy Madison, happy Gilmore because of golf for me. But I actually both know I still have a Gilmore. It's a classic for me. So I agree, that'll be a classic I'll put. I should have put that one later. Gris, greatest cliffhanger of all time.
Speaker 1:Oh, dang. Ok, can I ask a follow up question? Cliffhanger as a cliffhanger, and it ends, ends or cliffhanger leading into the next cliffhanger.
Speaker 2:Whatever you, whatever you think, just.
Speaker 1:OK, it's got to be. Empire strikes back luke I'm or no, luke I am. I'm your father whatever the actual line is um the cliffhanger, like he's hanging down on that, like intent under the ship they come save him. But of just the mystique of like what is next? Yeah, I feel like it's so good. Um oh, cliffhangers, that's tough do you have any?
Speaker 2:what are your? I couldn't think of a bunch of them, but or I couldn't name them, but Inception was the one I could think of, because the top's spinning at the end and you kind of you get to assume what happens and that's an end cliffhanger there's no resolution. So those are tough for me, because you've really invested all your time into this movie and I felt like it was a really powerful movie moving you towards something, and there's no resolution.
Speaker 1:Maybe the Dark Knight. I don't know if it's a cliffhanger because I guess Batman's story ends, but like the Dark Knight returns the final scene where him and is it Anne Hathaway or whatever? They're at dinner and he sees Mokul Kain over there at the other table and I don't know how it yeah. I think your answer is the best answer. No no, it's just. Inception is like a legit cliffhanger that actually ends the movie and is like wait, I need a sequel?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Never get it. Never get it. Yeah, no resolution. So so into that. What movie would you give it? Well, what movie would you give an alternate ending to?
Speaker 1:Oh, what movie ending just irks me. Yeah, and you need to change that up. Yeah, okay, so this is not an ending that irks me, but it's an ending that I'm happy with. But it's an ending I would love to see more of, not more of, but I would like to see more of the story before it ends. Adam Sandler in 2019 was just in a film called Uncut Gems, which I absolutely love.
Speaker 1:He plays like a gem salesman, a jeweler in the diamond district of New York, new York. Yeah, the ending. I loved the ending. I get it. It's Shakespearean Like it makes sense Uh. But in my heart I was like dang, I could see I would. I want another one.
Speaker 2:I want another one.
Speaker 1:Do you know how it ends?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Okay, I won't spoil you.
Speaker 2:No, I saw part of it, but I didn't see the ending of it.
Speaker 1:But now I know I need to finish watching it. Ending. That's a good question.
Speaker 2:Are there movies?
Speaker 1:that you would change ending of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mine was the. Well, mine, as I thought about it, was the butterfly effect with Ashton Kutcher.
Speaker 2:So I love that one and the only. He tries all the various outcomes with this girl that he's in love with while he's a childhood sweetheart and all of them end tragically. I mean, it's got some really. It's really dark, it has a lot of dark stuff. You're just like, oh my gosh. But he can go back in time and kind of change scenarios and all of them end bad, with like best friends dying or whatever. So the only option is that he's never. He never meets her. So he has to go back in time and actually change that. The only option is for him to have never met her and so at the end he walks by her and you kind of hope that maybe she'll recognize him. But and so he realizes he did what was best for her in her life and that's to never be with her. So for me that just leaves such a I'm like, oh, so officially that's never the best option.
Speaker 1:Like that. Just I changed my answer. I want to change it to atonement, which is a movie I said earlier, because I agree it's a romance movie and you want it to end with them together and just because of the circumstances of the story they literally can't be, together. So I changed my answer. Atonement, I would change the ending. I'm going to have to see that one. I haven't seen it.
Speaker 2:Oh God, it's going to make you cry. Call me right after you're done crying. Okay, I will.
Speaker 1:Sequel that needs to be made.
Speaker 2:In your opinion, one that you've been waiting for, yeah, I know that's good, I would love well.
Speaker 1:So, going back to the Pulp Fiction bit, favorite movie ever, pulp Fiction there actually was supposed to be a sequel, prequel, spinoff called the Vega Brothers, because John Travolta so all of Quentin Tarantino's characters, uh, in his universe a lot of times are related. People don't know that, he just kind of knows that himself and it's fun for him and Vincent Vega, john Travolta from Pulp Fiction and, uh, mr Dang I haven't seen. Oh, mr Blonde from Reservoir Dogs played by Michael. Uh, all my movie friends are gonna be mad at me. Mad at me because I forgot all their names. But the point is, is the bad guy, mr Blonde from Reservoir Dogs and Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction in the Tarantinoverse are actually brothers? Yeah, and they were supposed to get a movie of the two of them together. There was supposed to be a movie called the Vega Brothers. That never happened.
Speaker 1:So that was your yeah so that would be my sequel, because it's like a Pulp Fiction prequel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, prequel, yeah, yeah, prequel sequel. Mine's kind of similar Jumper was supposed to have a sequel Hayden Christensen and Samuel L Jackson. So have you seen Jumper?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the movie's awesome.
Speaker 2:So it's supposed to have. They've been waiting for it forever and it'll never happen.
Speaker 1:Now Hayden Christensen's like 80. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah favorite classic movie? Oh, and I don't know what constitutes classic, but yeah, well, I'm I'm. Sometimes I think simple is best, which means, like a lot of times, the population gets it right when it comes to movies. So I'm very much in the camp that, like the Godfather, is probably the best movie ever made. Yeah, it's probably the best. Citizen Kane is way up there. I'm one of those guys. I also love john ford, so I'm a big like my darling clementine or stage coach. But for my money, the greatest pure director of all time is akira kurosawa.
Speaker 1:So I would have to say that my favorite classic movie um is probably yojimbo which is is a samurai film yeah it's a black and white samurai film that Sergio Leone, the famous spaghetti Western guy who made Fistful of Dollars Once Upon a Time in America, he literally stole, shot for shot, from Yojimbo, the samurai movie and created A Fistful of Dollars, which was Clint Eastwood's first cowboy big role. Oh, okay, so the modern cowboy movie that we love literally has stolen tick for tack from samurai films. Yeah, and then Star Wars, lucas creates a space western that essentially, is just a space western based on a samurai movie.
Speaker 2:You've heard it from a true film guy just now, because I didn't know about three quarters of what you just said.
Speaker 1:Yojimbo, a true film guy just now, because I didn't know about three quarters of what you just said Yo Jimbo. So Yo Jimbo would be my answer, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I said A Christmas Story, mine's just classic. You'll shoot your eye out, kind of thing you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, what's the one? The one the guy wishes. It's a Christmas movie, it's A Wonderful Life. That's A Wonderful Life, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a good one too. So, yeah, what movies had we kind of talked about this one what movies had such an impact on you that actually altered your life in some way? Oh, that it changed how you feel, or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, star Wars is the first one that comes to mind instantaneously because it I was a young kid and I've talked about my dad a lot already in this. I love my dad. We had some problems when I was younger and so it's just me and my mom for a big portion of my younger life and I think I really liked star wars because I identified with luke skywalker of this kid who has a family but doesn't have a family. He's really poor but like has this deep burning thing inside of him that he's built for more and doesn't understand why. And then he gets caught up in this crazy journey where he finds out he's the chosen one to save, like I really identified with that because I think I always dreamed I was going to be that.
Speaker 1:I hoped I was going to be that guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Any. I loved documentaries when I was a kid because I got to travel Like I've never. I've been to Canada and Mexico, but in my mind I've been everywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, like I love documentaries, but even movies of Werner Herzog, which, like so Fitzcarraldo or Aguirre, the Wrath of God, yeah, these crazy movies that take place in, like these jungly places. What was your question?
Speaker 2:Which one has actually, like, altered your life. Okay, it had enough of an impact to change your.
Speaker 1:The movie that altered my life. Don't laugh at me, I know I do this. Whatever guys, it's good. Pulp Fiction is the movie that I watched and I go, I want to do this. Yeah, I can make. I can do this. So that kind of leads into our question after this is, like, you know, one where I was like, oh, I can make movies, oh, that's awesome yeah well, a couple more questions, quick ones, we'll do.
Speaker 2:Uh, I actually forgot, I skipped it, but saddest movie ever made Atonement oh, it's not, it is not even close.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you, go watch it man, I gosh. I thought my Girl was the saddest one you want to know it's funny, as I saw on your thing, my Girl, and then you have the one with Robert Pattinson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I looked that up and I watched the trailer last night at my house and you cried what did I do? Right after I watched the trailer, mckenna, I came up and gave you a kiss and cuddled with you because I told her I was like I just saw a trailer for a movie that made me love you even more Well.
Speaker 2:That you love like a notebook, or you know the uh, what did I write? The oh, remember me. But like cause it where you lose a child lovely bones is another one Cause when you go and you hug, you go and hug your child after that, or you go and hug your loved one Cause you know those, just really they impact you deeply, right Dang. They impact you deeply, right Dang. Yeah, so last question on these ones, okay, Theater or movie on demand at home.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm a movie theater guy. Okay, all of COVID. I'm convinced I am the reason why the Mary Pickford movie theater in Cathedral City stayed open 100%.
Speaker 2:You yourself kept it open.
Speaker 1:They were doing $5 movies every day and they were playing like Star Wars, Harry Potter and I went probably for two and a half months, literally every day.
Speaker 2:Like what else am I going to do?
Speaker 1:It's 100 degrees outside and the world shut down.
Speaker 2:So I just went and watched movies, nostalgic memories, the whole thing right yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm a movie theater guy. I respect the contractual obligation between filmmaker and audience member is important to me. The contractual obligation between filmmaker and audience member is important to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I know that there are some people, like Christopher Nolan who just made Oppenheimer, like that's a movie that you have to go see in theaters. Yeah, on demand is cool. Yeah, like it's convenient, but I'm not watching blockbusters on demand.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I'm going to go see it in theater.
Speaker 2:I am now, unfortunately, I've kind of fall prey to it. Yeah, now, unfortunately, I've kind of. I've kind of fall prey to it because I love the theater, I love the environment, I love everything about it. But I can't control the environment. So when I get someone next to me, who's hey, what's happening, or kids, running around or there's noise happening. I just am like oh man.
Speaker 1:I'm that guy, I oh, I straight up like talking. I'm like, hey, uh, this movie ticket costs me $87. So I mean, and this popcorn was 50. So I need you to not, there's an investment here.
Speaker 2:That's funny. Well, yeah, give us, let's jump in and give us a little background on you, primarily, primarily, growing up and your journey into film and ultimately the draw to film for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, um. So I, mom and dad, both love movies. Both mom and dad are movie fanatics. Um, and I, I lived with mom for most of my life and then dad was around and that was one of the best bonding times that me and my father got was like we'd go see movies and my mom worked full-time and I played sports.
Speaker 1:So during the week I was practice, come home, eat dinner, go to bed, but Sundays my mom always had Sundays off and that was kind of our. Our tradition was Sundays we go see a movie, go see a matinee, get some ice cream, like that was the thing that's cool. So my parents always loved movies and the other thing and this is not I'm not going to recommend this to anybody, but this is just how it was for me there was no limit to what I was allowed to watch, as long as I could understand what it was I was watching, which isn't good, because I got. I saw. You know, I've watched Scarface when I was like 11 for the first time, but it was the thing of of my parents gave me freedom as long as I understood what I was watching, but movies I said it earlier.
Speaker 1:That was just my escape man I was a young kid, I spent a lot of time alone. I wanted to travel the world and see the world, but I couldn't at the time, and movies, for me, were that, were that great escape. Uh, yeah, there's something intrinsic about the, the, the journey that people go on, that I see myself in, and at a young age I was captivated by it. Um, and I always had an active imagination. I love telling stories. I had quite a little fibber when I was a kid and, uh, just put fuel on the fire that just put fuel on the fire baby, so I always loved movies.
Speaker 1:Movies were my escape Fast forward. I go to high school.
Speaker 1:I'm an athlete, I'm a pretty good athlete in high school, kind of ditched the arts, yeah, like, put the arts behind me, graduated college or graduated high school. And then I went away my first semester of school. I went away to Buffalo, new York, and it was a culture shock for me and I did not have any friends and I didn't necessarily do a good job at making them. And so for the six months I was there the first semester, um, movies saved me, dude, like it gave me things to do, it kept me busy and it dawned on me that I really really love movies and I was becoming, I don't want to say obsessive, but I really loved movies.
Speaker 1:And then it dawned on me I was watching an interview with Steven Spielberg. He talked about generalizing here, but basically he said life is hard and it's really hard to be good at anything. So if you're going to dedicate your life to being good at something, it may as well be something you like. And that, for me, was the switch of. I think I want to make movies. So I told my mom I was going to school for urban development, so I was going to plan parks and cities and like lay out how cities are structured and all that. And I told my mom hey, I think I want to change my major and I also think I want to transfer colleges.
Speaker 1:I think I want to change my major and I also think I want to transfer colleges and I got a little pushback there. But that was the catalyst of like, okay, we're going to do this. And my mom totally supported me Not at first, took her a day or two, but once she accepted that this is what I wanted, she was all in and so we packed up everything and I transferred to a different college and started studying film yeah. And that four years in college just changed my life.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Four years of film school and I studied anthropology as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, those two things in tandem and that's kind of how I guess I got to film school.
Speaker 2:Got to film school. That's awesome man. Actually, when you said that I was like man, that kind of segues to where you are now, even though that's not in the question but you said with Spielberg uh, that if you're going to do something with your life, you might as well do something that you. What do you love? And uh, now, here you are, you know, falling in love with Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's good. Well, it's the thing I had, uh well, it's funny, the first um I had felt the call to ministry when I was younger yeah, I'm like 14. And and I had and you know how we are, we're, we're charismatic with seatbelts on here yeah, I lean a little more reformed and the but you know, but the thing is the closest thing to a vision I had ever had. I had when I was 14 and the vision was essentially that I was going to be in ministry.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you had that, that young oh, yeah, yeah, like 14 so I so I was gung-ho and I was doing the things to set myself up for that and I've shared this with you. My uh youth pastor at the time, guy I adored and loved um ended up trying to commit suicide yeah and so that obliterated my faith. Um, yeah, and movies were just kind of that thing that was there for me yeah, so no, I'm surprised you get into making christian films.
Speaker 2:Uh, well, yeah, well, I'll surprised you get into making Christian films. Well, I'll show you. There's something to be heard.
Speaker 1:I'll show you some of my movies. Oh, I do. It's kind of yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:So let's jump in. Let's talk about what constitutes a good story.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:As far you know. Why are good stories so powerful? You know? Tell us a little bit about some of your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1:Oh man, what constitutes a good story? Well, the sermon. Well, first off, there's a lot that constitutes a good story and there's elements you can find in all of them, the three elements that I chose to base the sermon last week on. The three elements that make up a good story is every story has a hero that sets the standard, regardless if it's a good standard or a bad standard. Right, because sometimes you have, you have the hero's arc. You know, lord of the rings, yeah, but then you'll have the anti-hero's arc, which is like the godfather or scarface. So, regardless, you have a hero who sets the standard. So, in the godfather, michael corleone, well, don vito, marlon brando is the standard, but then michael comes in and he's the standard, even though he's evil and bad. He's worse than his dad. Therefore, he raised the bar even higher in terms of evil. Scarface, the same thing Tony Montana is the gangster that everybody else has measured upon in that film, even though he's a bad guy.
Speaker 1:So every impactful story has a hero or villain, I guess. In that sense, who sets the standard? Every story has a villain that seems impossible to defeat. Right, and once again, if you're the godfather, it's the good guys who are the villain. But every good story has a villain who seems impossible to defeat. Look at jaws You've got the shark, who seems unbeatable. The Lord of the Rings, you've got Sauron and Mount Doom. And all this, what else? Some ones that rip off the top of my head In 2001, a Space Odyssey, you have Dave the machine, who's like unbeatable. Every good movie has an enemy who seems unbeatable, and that's what makes the final element all that more impactful which is a victory that seems totally impossible.
Speaker 1:Once again, lord of the Rings I mean, lord of the Rings is like the greatest hero story ever told. And Lord of the Rings, like, how is it that these two munchkins got all the way across the world and overcame all this and did this? Like it's so impossible, yeah, it's so impossible. Or even Jaws going back to that. Yeah, like, how does Roy Schneider, how do you? You killed this 30-foot shark that's been eating people, sinking ships. Like it just doesn't make sense that you got him.
Speaker 2:How did you do that?
Speaker 1:Um so those so those are the three elements that constitute impactful storytelling, and you can find those elements, uh, in every, every movie, every story, yeah, oh my goodness, no, yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I thought you did such a great job with that through the sermon and it was just, uh, it was after you had preached that I went back and I thought often about like just stories and what makes a good story, and for me I was like I heard it somewhere, but it was great stories have an impact and a great story requires a response, and so I kept thinking about that because I was like man, so true, I mean thinking about, like you know, jaws and the illustration that you used with the people seeing sharks in the lake and stuff like that. I was just like it's great Cause it'll draw you to. Even if it's not rational, it's still you respond to it somehow. And so, um, yeah, they impact us, and so, um, I don't know any other thoughts on, you know great stories and Well.
Speaker 1:I think people, um and I don't have the word for it, maybe you do People try to fill in the blanks all the time and you'll see examples where, like, there will be an image and the middle of the image is missing, but your brain can, like, connect the image yeah, yeah, or you'll be reading a sentence and then it's like the sentence you're reading right now, every single word is misspelled, but you didn't notice because your brain, just like auto, fills the spots.
Speaker 1:I think the same is true about stories is, is people in Tarantino famous for this? Um, people try to overcomplicate stories and the best stories are the simplest because they they play on the part of your brain where you're filling in the blanks. So it's like the unfolding of a story happens and you, as the audience member, subconsciously, are filling in the blanks as you're watching, and that's kind of what keeps you moving forward. Once again, lord of the Rings, it's the most basic story ever told. Why do you keep watching? Well, because you want to see what happens next, but internally you know like, oh my gosh, they're going to fight the dragon. Oh, there's something subconscious about you that fills the blanks, that keeps you engaged, and it's been that way forever. Yeah, it's been that way forever. I think that's why people have always gravitated towards storytelling orally, you know, written it's just what it is, man, it's in us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and whether they evoke astound, confound or communicate something like we are drawn to. Where is it going with this? Right, Like it's just a natural kind of uh, there's a natural draw to that, and so I love the idea of using stories to redeem things. I'm taking movies that simply move us or entertain us and then connecting them with truths that can transform us, and so I love the idea Like, uh, that's why I always love, like, a redemption story. Um, what is this one? Actually, I'll probably talk about it in another podcast, Actually, I will, but I'll mention it. Here's the story Redeeming Love. It's the. Did we talk about that before? The one with the? It's the Hosea Gomer story.
Speaker 2:And dude it is it's just a whole story of redemption and love and I mean it's so beautiful. But I love when you can take something maybe that it wasn't necessarily meant for and turn it into something, Basically use it for good, Kind of that idea.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite sermons side note is we talked about this. Judah Smith preaches on Hosea and Gomer and he ties it in the redemption of Hosea and Gomer and he ties it into John 3.16 and the redemption of humanity. It's really good.
Speaker 2:I love. So actually I want to touch on this too. One of my favorite verses in scripture is John 21, 25. And it says. But there are also many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written Dude. Every time I've heard that verse like I was probably one of the first verses that I heard that I was blown away by thinking where are all those stories?
Speaker 1:You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean, but I realized it's. It's such a powerful display of what's been written, is sufficient but not exhaustive, and that there's so much more to the story of jesus that it's not even dude that if it was written down that itself, that the, the what is it, could not contain the books that would be written about it.
Speaker 1:So it's like the greatest ambiguous ending of a movie ever.
Speaker 2:It's like the greatest that's of a movie ever. It's like the greatest ambiguous ending. That's good. I love that.
Speaker 1:And dang, what was it? Yeah, anyway, yeah, greatest ambiguous.
Speaker 2:Well, let's get into now. Let's talk about the greatest story ever told. Okay, story of Jesus, yeah.
Speaker 1:What do?
Speaker 2:you got for us there. Any thoughts on the greatest story.
Speaker 1:I think there's sermon, like the thesis of the sermon essentially is you and I were created by God, who is the ultimate author and creator. Hebrews 12 to. That Josh Weiss gave me to use was a look looking at Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who, for the joy set before him, endured the cross. You and I were created and woven together by the greatest author of all time, and I would like to think that he imprinted onto us this intrinsic desire for a longing for, essentially, a story that we know we're a part of Like.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's this subtle thing in all of us that recognizes why we love the hero's journey. Why do we love the sacrificial hero? And I would argue it's because the greatest story ever told was about a man who was perfect in all that he did and he came down and paid the heaviest price for people that were so imperfect who did not deserve it. But it's from the kindness and gracious heart of God that you and I were given a chance at hope. Literally, the story of the Bible, one grand story that is amalgamation of many smaller stories.
Speaker 2:It's just got everything in there, dude yeah.
Speaker 1:It has everything. Poetry, Poetry, Uh, the, the I mean the prose is next level. The, the narrative books of the Bible, um, the, the poetic books of the Bible, like the applicable books of the Bible. There's so much in there, it's it's hard when you know anything about literature, it's hard to think of anything that could contend with the Bible. And then another bit that in my anthropology classes, because the two oldest people pieces of literature that we have as of now, it's contested as to which one is older, but they're written about the same time which is the Epic of King Gilgamesh and the Book of Job.
Speaker 1:I find it fascinating that the oldest book in the Bible is a narrative book and it just goes back to the importance and power of storytelling right from the beginning. I remember when I practiced Preach the Message and I talked about you know we love and identify stories because we put ourselves in the beginning. Yeah, yeah, I remember when I practiced Preach the Message and I talked about you know we love and identify stories because we put ourselves in the driver's seat.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're one of the few audience members, which is some it's something like six or 7%, which is you actually don't see yourself in the movie that you're watching. You're just watching it for the sheer entertainment. You caught that huh.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I caught that because I when you said that I was perplexed.
Speaker 1:I was like I never every movie I've ever seen. I'm in it Like I'm the guy.
Speaker 1:I'm the hero, um, yeah, so anyway, I just thought I thought that was interesting because, uh, people like you don't exist. Very often. Most people put themselves in the driver's seat. It's the same the stat I shared with about the NFL, which is like six, something like 67 of people that watch the nfl don't watch it because they enjoy it, they watch it because they get to see them. They see themselves as being the guy on the field playing. Yeah, just kind of well, it's probably me too I play that guy too, so well.
Speaker 2:When you said that it's funny, I've actually never really actually thought about why I felt that way when I said it, but when I taught, when we talk about someone else's story, it's kind of the cliche thing live your, your own story. So, for me, entertainment it has the power to impact, it has the power to transform, it has the power to change you, especially because it's true for scripture. And so for me, though, I always think well then, how is that applicable to my own life, and how do I turn that into something that I journey and do and understand and feel? It's the reality of its impact on me, right, and so I don't see myself in someone else's story. But this is funny because I think this is why I don't really connect with sports really well. I don't watch football teams I don't connect with, like I'm not your typical guy. That's, like you know, go Bills or whatever you know.
Speaker 2:Like, I'm not this but I'm not into sports, Like I just don't have that connection. I'm like I don't live vicariously through them because I can't see myself as them. So I've always thought it was funny. I'm like, why do people cheer on this random group of dudes running around on a field, throwing around a?
Speaker 1:pigskin I was like I don't have. You are so secure in yourself. You just look like you're the guy, that's like. I don't need to fantasize about me being someone else.
Speaker 2:I do, I'm going to adventure this world myself and experience it firsthand. So I would love to maybe play it, but I don't. Yeah, so it's kind of weird. I've always actually kind of struggled with that, because people are like you're weird, like you don't like what dude doesn't follow football? Yeah, well, I don't. So I'm part of the. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's something I made earlier uh, connects, which is us, us identifying something internally about us that draws us towards the story of the gospel.
Speaker 1:There was and I can't remember it was a sport, I forgot what it was, but it's more. It's more, um, it's more common in music, which is to say that when a child is born and it it's particularly in men but when a child is born and then dad leaves, okay, if dad was a musician, oftentimes when dad is gone, the child intrinsically has a musical slant, yeah, and they begin to pick up and have, for some reason they don't know why, they don't know their dad, but something about the father left an impression on them that draws them towards being musical. And the same is true of, like, there's so many people who don't know Jesus, but you were created by the father, who imprinted onto you storytelling elements, and I think that's the, that's like the internal draw that draws people. Yeah, because you were created by the almighty storyteller. So how could it not be in you, in you, 100%? That's great, dude, way to pull that together.
Speaker 2:That was no, that was beautiful, dude. I had to. No, no, I uh I wrote this down, I just wanted to say it. It doesn't actually fit here, but I felt like it was a thought as I was kind of working through this and saying, hey, what are we going to talk about? But it was so funny and it's and I love that you have drawn this out for me to take this further and think about it after the weekend.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what the other six days podcast is about, and we want to get these thoughts like, hey, what didn't you get to say on the weekend and what do we get to talk about? That we take and impacts our lives the other six days, right? So for me, I'm thinking about things outside of the weekend sermon. That's a powerful sermon. So for me, he's not the hero. Jesus was not the hero that we wanted. He was the hero we needed. And so you hear that all the time and I was like it's so true, we never thought that such a unlikely hero which you talked about, you know, carpenter from Nazareth, friend of sinners, all things humble, compassionate, unassuming, all the things that a hero is not, but it's exactly what we needed for redemption, right, Come on.
Speaker 2:So, good, it was so, and I was like man. That's so funny. We can use this modern thing and redeem it and turn it into that's exactly who Jesus was. You know, we didn't even know we needed it, but that's who we needed.
Speaker 1:So Well, that carries over a multitude of things of like. The thing you need is not always what you think.
Speaker 2:Like it's a Chippendales rescue.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, oh man, that's good I used to play on Disney channel at like four o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. So any, any tips I want to wrap it up, but any tips on our own story or contribution, like why should we care as believers? You've presented a compelling story here, but why should we care as believers about telling a great story? What's something we can do to apply that to our own lives?
Speaker 1:Oh, man, in a practical sense, you as a person, if you can show people that you can communicate beginning, middle and end and keep it clear and concise, I think that communicates a lot of things to people, which is, first off, that you're intelligent, Like on, like a total practical level, like being able to tell stories. Um, it shows. It shows intelligence. It shows your ability to comprehend dense object, uh, dense concepts, a lot of times. Um, what was what I forgot?
Speaker 2:what's the question? Well, no the no. I always lose it so quick. No, that's right. Like how the the story contributes. Like as believers, why should we care about telling a great story?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, why is it important you?
Speaker 2:just said it at the end of your thing, though, I think.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe, but the whole like this whole shebang that we have here is based on one story. Yeah, and if I'm going to make my bread and butter and if this is the hill I'm going to die on, I better tell it really good, and I find that I don't. Obviously, you want to be articulate when you're when you're telling the greatest story ever told the gospel but the story does the heavy lifting itself Like, yeah. So so when you're telling a story, just just always remember there's gotta be a beginning, a middle and end, there has to be a problem and there has to be a solution to the problem, and I always find it's just.
Speaker 1:This might sound, you know, not very good being on the spot, but it's. You know, you and me are people. We're on the same playing field here and there's something wrong with you and me. We have a problem that we can't solve and there is a solution and it's free to you. Um, if you just want to hear a story that I got to tell you, it's about a guy who set the standard really high.
Speaker 2:He totally defeated an enemy that that you and me had no at a coffee shop.
Speaker 1:But the things that the professors always told me when pitching, always remember a beginning, middle and end and condense it down to a log line. If you go to pitch your movie to a producer and you can't pitch the whole movie in 30 seconds, you're out of there. The elevator pitch. It's real. So log line, which is a one, which is a one or two line story that has beginning, middle and end. It sets up the problem and it acknowledges the solution.
Speaker 2:That's good, yeah, yeah, you had mentioned it earlier. I'm going to circle back around on it. The gospel is a good story and it's a good story to share with others, because it's true and you had said in there that obviously we said that a good story requires a response right, and we share our story because God's put that story inside of us and so we share it with others to bring glory to him, correct?
Speaker 1:That's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a great way to put on display the power of God at work in our own lives too. So our own personal testimonies, right? So good. We've talked about sharing those and sharing with others how you know the impact that God's had and how it's transformed us, and if there's anything that can transform your life, it's the power of the gospel, right? So, yeah, so so share however you share that, share it. Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 2:And so it's, and I love it because it's where where God's work intersects with our own lives, and that's the story we're there to share. We're like man look what he's done, look what I've heard he has done and he is doing, and what he can't, what I'm hopeful he will do, and so I'm going to share that.
Speaker 1:I can't not share that. And there was a whole and this is the last thing I have to say, but it's you are not the hero. I think it's huge to remember that and we talked about this is like the, the you know, and I'm making a broad statement here. But modern day Christianity most people out there are getting preached to and getting told that, like you're like, are being made to think you're the hero of the story. Story's not about you. Yeah, yeah. So that's good, cj. I adore you, dude, I love you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it's been fun, man. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sitting down and chatting with me.
Speaker 2:Well, as always, we hope our conversations here are going to be engaging, but we want to make sure we provide our people with helpful resources. So what do you have? Any resources or thoughts you'd like to point people to that they might find helpful or beneficial, or just even, you know, even entertaining?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the best the best storybook of all time is a story by Robert McKee, Very Save the Cat by I think it's Ed Mullen maybe, who wrote Save the Cat I yeah, that would be it.
Speaker 2:And then, obviously, and stay in your Bible, stay in your Bible, stay in your Bible.
Speaker 1:There you go, yeah, and I think just be aware of what you're watching, like when you're watching a movie or you're watching something like, don't be afraid to take yourself out of it and recognize oh, the hero who set the standard, there he is. Yeah, the hero who set the standard, there he is. Oh, here's the impossible villain that we have to defeat, whether it's a thing or it's, you know whatever, an event. Oh, and here comes the impossible victory that keeps me coming back to buy more tickets.
Speaker 2:So good, Dude. Well, we've got it. We'll include some other links in our show notes as well. I got one CS love for writing and commentary and teaching in various genres, so it's super cool. Max Lucado does the story and he does it as the Bible is one continuing story of God and his people, so very cool book. I'd recommend checking that out. And one of the other ones always. I think you've heard of this the Bible Project. You can go watch those. They do a great job of doing illustrated. It's really easy to consume and so I'd recommend that and that'll be in the link.
Speaker 1:And writers and there's a book Stephen King wrote you just donned me. It's called Stephen King, sorry, writer, it's called writers on writing and it's literally him, just talk. It's him writing about his writing process.
Speaker 2:It's fascinating. I heard that's like. That's like a no.
Speaker 1:No, you're not supposed to like writers. I'm supposed to reveal his secret. That's funny.
Speaker 2:Well, Hunter, any last comments or thoughts before we wrap this up?
Speaker 1:No man, it is an absolute honor and privilege. I said it on Sunday. I had had dreams of standing on that platform and preaching the message there, and I got to do that. No-transcript only in documentaries. Go ahead and message. Oh, I see you're doing a little plug for yourself If you want to send me on a cool vacation to I don't know some tropical country I haven't been to. That's cool.
Speaker 2:All right, we'll see how that works out for you. Dude, I love having you here. This is so fun. I knew it was going to be fun. I knew it was going to be different, and so do keep doing what you're doing. We are like rooting for you, cheering for you. I love you and, dude, I just there's. So remain, teach to sit and watch it all unfold. So, anyway, well, there you have it, guys. Thanks again for joining us on another episode of the other six days podcast. Be sure to hit that, subscribe, follow, share and like, spread the word and, as always, take what you've heard and turn it into something that you can do to further the gospel and the world around you. Until next time, peace, time, peace. Thank you, thank you.