The Other 6 Days

The Spiritual Gifts | The Other 6 Days | Episode 31

• Southwest Church • Season 2 • Episode 31

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In this episode, your host Pastors CJ McFadden & Ricky Jenkins kick off the podcast with a discussion on the topic of spiritual gifts; what they are, what they are not, ways a believer can identify their specific spiritual gift or gifts? Once they do, how do they go about developing them and using them effectively. We address the elephant in the room regarding some common misunderstandings, misuse or abuse of gifts within the church and how we can best avoid this, all while driving to Paul's call to a more excellent way... love. We then wrap up the podcast as always with some helpful resources and information to equip believers as they dive deeper into the topic of Spiritual Gifts. 

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Speaker 1:

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the other six days podcast, where we chat about life outside of Sundays and what it means to live from our gatherings, and not just for them. I'm your host, cj McFadden, here again, as always, with Pastor Ricky Jenkins, and today we're diving into the topic of spiritual gifts. We'll focus this episode primarily on what they are, what they're not and how they should be understood and what purpose they serve. This topic could and would require far more time than we have here today to dive in real deep into and unpack all the various views and understandings on this. So today we're just going to do our best to begin a healthy, helpful and hopefully unifying 30,000 foot view kind of conversation on approaching spiritual gifts. Pastor Ricky, anything to add to that before we jump in? I couldn't have said it better myself.

Speaker 1:

What's up CJ? What's up how you doing?

Speaker 2:

Good bro, yeah Chilling.

Speaker 1:

Nice, Well, as always, let's jump in and do a little fun before we deep dive in. So what's the best gift?

Speaker 2:

maybe actually would say most memorable gift you've ever received, and you can't say salvation, and you can't say april jenkins or anything like that. You can't say jesus. Jesus can't be the answer. We know this. Uh, this one's easy, so I'm gonna go a little um shallow. Uh, I think it's fifth grade, christmas, so, uh, our listeners under 40 and 45 probably won't know this toy, but it's a famous toy named Voltron.

Speaker 2:

Voltron is like this space robot and there was a cartoon and the cartoon was a Voltron, defender of the universe, and it was this toy. Like there was two different Voltrons. One was a lion guy, so it was like five robotic lions would come together. But the one we loved was the one where like 60, 70 different vehicles that you could ride in and of themselves would come together. But the one we loved was the one where like 60, 70 different vehicles that you could ride in and of themselves would come together. Actually, I think it was 81, 81 pieces, for whatever reason, I remember that that would form this huge robot. And my parents surprised me. It's like an expensive toy, like $60, which in 1987, that's a lot of money and it was just the best. I tore it up by February, but that was a great toy, voltron.

Speaker 1:

That is so good. I totally remember that. That was like a staple of my childhood.

Speaker 2:

It was the best.

Speaker 1:

I never got the large one.

Speaker 2:

That's what I always wanted. I got the large one. I got the large one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we watched the show and everything. And that was before Transformers came out and all that stuff.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, it was like, oh, dude, they would come together. And then the last guy would say you form legs and feet, you form arms and sword, you form torso and I'll form the head. That was for Sean Dawson's listing right now it was.

Speaker 1:

I love that so much. Listing right now it was, I love that so much. I got a pair. My favorite memory was and I remember it like it was yesterday is a pair of Sugino GT three-piece alloy BMX cranks for my bicycle, as well as some other accessories. Wow, but they were. It's very specific because I was really into BMX.

Speaker 2:

What is a crank CJ?

Speaker 1:

It's the little. It's actually the part that you pedal with. So it's what the pedals are attached to. Okay. So, yeah, very specific. But I was really into BMX and so I wanted all these specialty parts for my bike, and my parents couldn't afford it. I worked at a local bike shop and started working there, but my parents went down and actually asked for the first time when asked my boss what I wanted for Christmas.

Speaker 2:

And he nailed that one. So when I opened it, I was so shocked. That's cool Because it was so specific, sure, sure.

Speaker 1:

And usually my parents. We were pretty broke, so my parents always bought like kind of random gifts that they thought I might like. So this was super special.

Speaker 2:

That's cool. Yeah, that's really cool. So it's like sticks out to this day. Oh yeah, and you'll never forget it, yep absolutely yeah, jump in today.

Speaker 1:

Let's start with a little bit about, maybe, what spiritual gifts are. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what is a spiritual gift, especially for the listener right who's new to Christ and specifically the ones that have been in Christ for a while, because this conversation can change from church to church, from preacher to preacher, and I want to talk about some of the nuances of that right, we're definitely don't want to come off as authorities in the final word on things today and just to kind of express where we are, where our church is and all that good stuff.

Speaker 2:

But, yes, spiritual gifts. The sweet thing about the body of Christ and God's love for his body is that he has a you as a omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent. God still desires to partner with creation, right, like like God and his God could do it all by himself, but insofar that we're created in his image, god partners with us to advance his, his will and his ways in the earth right, and so one of the ways through which God creates agency for Christ followers is the endowment of what we call in scripture spiritual gifts, like literal, unique, holy Spirit-fueled gifts that you know the old preacher would say the spiritual gifts ought to have God glorified, the church edified and Satan horrified.

Speaker 1:

Oh wow Right.

Speaker 2:

Like a spiritual gift. Big picture is about that, but we're going to talk about it. There's key texts right, first Corinthians 12. Paul kind of lists out some gifts there. We're going to preach about that here soon. There's a gift set mentioned in Romans 12, ephesians 4, right, that are more so about leadership gifts. I'm on the side of the fence that anything that has God glorified, the church edified, satan horrified, that is not in and of itself a talent but a virtue that has been fueled by the presence of power of the Holy Spirit, is a gift, and so I'm not the guy who holds to like that literal list. Indeed, I think some of those words are in Paul's heart and mind. Don't hear me say catch all, but do hear me say some sort of labeling as to an avenue of virtues that build up the church, yeah, right, and so healing one of the things.

Speaker 2:

We'll talk about this later, one of the, you know, I think that I think we ought to allow for what's called semantic range when we talk about the spiritual gifts, right? When he's saying healing, Okay, it's Greek word, therapy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So he's not in that saying that man guys given me a spiritual gift to pray for someone's healing and they can be healed. Although that's included in it, that has happened. We got documentation of people praying for people and they were in confounding of doctors in the medical prowess we have thus far mystified, because the only explanation that God did that and we get to say, okay, that person that prayed that prayer has a gift of healing. That's not it, right, that's not nearly what all Paul is thinking. Paul is more so thinking man, I seem to be prone and empowered to have an unusual capacity to minister to people who are hurting and sick. Right, we all do it. But, man, I have an unusual, uncanny desire and I have more in my tank to do that than the average human being, right, and so that's just a test case of what we see in scripture, that these words in some ways yes, they.

Speaker 2:

I think they are exact and we'll talk about that in a minute. But in some cases I think they're simply broad banners as to how the Holy Spirit shows up uniquely in the lives of all of his children to give them agency to press his name in the earth in such a way that God is glorified Right, the church is edified and Satan is horrified.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, oh, that's such a great way to put it. Oh, man, I love that. Yeah, because I've always heard. You know, definitely reading through.

Speaker 1:

You know 1 Corinthians 12 and you know the seven gifts and Romans and all of that I've seen 18 kind of typically identified throughout scripture and I'm just going to list those off for sake of even giving us framework for today as we talk about it. But administration, apostleship, discernment, encouragement, evangelism, faith giving or generosity helps, knowledge, leadership, mercy, prophecy, shepherding or pastoring, teaching, wisdom, miracles, healing and tongues, so that's usually the typical ones you hear kind of floating around and we'll talk a little bit more about that today. But like you said, man, I love what you said about that. God is edified, would you say.

Speaker 2:

Sure the spiritual gifts are such whereby God is glorified, the church is edified and Satan is horrified is how the whole preacher would say.

Speaker 1:

That's so good. Oh my gosh, I got to put that one to memory.

Speaker 2:

You'll hear it again, don't worry.

Speaker 1:

And another thing I did want to state in there too, about what they are is and I know this is one that some people get hung up on. I know especially people haven't explored the spiritual gifts. They're both for lay people and leadership. This is one that some people get hung up on. I know especially people haven't explored the spiritual gifts. They're both for lay people and leadership. Yeah, absolutely, this is absolutely. This is something for the believer, right? That's not just something that's dedicated to a leadership role, right? Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Well, just to kind of emphasize that point, I won't say more so. But when we see it in scripture, the gifts are more so directed to laity. And indeed now the early church got this automatically for lack of a better word insofar that churches weren't in buildings yet. Right, there wasn't any kind of established hierarchy in the book of Acts as yet. In fact we see the first deacons selected. It's not to the prison, epistles 1 Timothy, or the pastoral epistles 1 Timothy, titus, blah, blah, blah, where Paul starts to kind of say okay, here's what a pastor is, here's what an elder is, here's what a bishop is. Right, and so it was an organic process. When we talked about gifts for the first hundred or so years, until bishops come around, right, like it was kind of uniquely not uniquely but holistically embraced by the church. That guy's talking to all of us. So I'm not going to say more. So, right, like laity are more gifted than their spiritual leaders. But when we see it in scripture, what Paul is thinking, what the writers are thinking, is this is how God creates agency to move his kingdom agenda forward holistically among all of us.

Speaker 2:

So the original readers of texts 1 Corinthians, 12, romans and so forth, they would have been hearing God talking to them as laity, right, and the assumption would have been I know Paul has gifts, right. But now the way I would have read myself into the text is this idea that, oh, god's speaking to me as well. So you bring about a very profound point. It's why we talk about it. It's why Paul talks about the love behind the gifts more than the gifts, right, yeah, the reasons for and we'll hammer out on this in a sermon but the reason Paul talks about spiritual gifts, almost in all expressions thereof other than the historical usage in acts, yeah, okay, the reason Paul's talking about it is because of abuse, right, not definition. So that's what you always wonder. Why wouldn't Paul just flesh out tongues more? Or why wouldn't he just flesh out this more, flesh out that more Well, people didn't understand what they were.

Speaker 2:

It was what they were using them to do. That was the problem, and it's interesting in the Holy Spirit's omniscience and sovereignty that he hasn't left us that detailed. This is what this is Don't do this, do this. He was saying. He was saying this is what happens when the person makes themselves more important than the gift that God gave for those purposes. So we, we have to always read our Bible in context is my point, in the context of scripture by and large, on the spiritual gifts is hey, this is what happens when everybody's screwing this up. Don't do that, which also CJ, leads me to this point. Unity and love is way more what God is concerned about than proper or than with meeting your potential in your spiritual gifts. God is way more concerned about you meeting your spiritual potential with unity than he is your spiritual potential with your spiritual gift.

Speaker 1:

Well, the gifts in and of themselves are enacted in an attempt to demonstrate those things, that's right.

Speaker 2:

Unity and love, that's right. And so it all comes together, absolutely, we just get too myopic and focused on the gifting.

Speaker 2:

100% yeah, it's one of the reasons why I believe God makes very few churches rich. It all comes together Absolutely. We just get too myopic and focused on the gifting. A hundred percent. Yeah, it's one of the reasons why I believe God makes very few churches rich. You know and, by the way, for a witness for myself, few Christians rich. And who was it said that? Give me more money, I'll show you more of who I am?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know what I'm saying and so like.

Speaker 2:

I think that's one of the reasons why a lot of Christians find themselves saying man, why can't I preach like that? Why can't I sing like that? Why don't I have that gift? Why don't I have that? It's because if God, god, god loves you enough not to give you um, let me find a cool way to say it God loves you enough not to give you superpowers you can't steward well. You know what I'm saying, or else we'd lose them or we'd abuse them. So anyways, going on tangents. But that's good stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you can handle that gift.

Speaker 2:

That's right, that's right.

Speaker 1:

So let's jump in, Maybe just highlight a couple of things that maybe spiritual we talked about a little bit, but what? Spiritual gifts or not?

Speaker 2:

Yeah so yeah, absolutely Go ahead.

Speaker 1:

Um, yeah, so, uh, you know you talked about it a little bit, but all humans hold the difference between all human holding talent versus only believers holding spiritual gifts. So it's something imparted to us by the Holy spirit.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

So it would be one. And then they're not chosen, obviously they're given to us.

Speaker 2:

Um, that one right there. So that's the one I'm going to go after. I choose tongues. Yeah, exactly, I choose tongues. A little faith, thank you, or I don't have the gift of kids ministry which that's a whole nother conversation.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly, exactly. They're not a sign of greater faith or devotion to God no-transcript special honor. So that's just a couple of things I thought we should, you know, highlight, just to make sure you kind of hold that up, so yeah absolutely there was a um, I think.

Speaker 2:

I think, in light of what you're saying and what script, spiritual gifts are not, and I can't say it any better, but again, the signature feature of commentary surrounding the spiritual gifts in scripture is unity and love. That is the angle of how the church ought then to talk about it. Now I think there's things the church can do to bless people. Spiritual gifts, inventory right, Affirming the gift when we see it in people and trying to marry them up to a ministry in the church where they can do that. All that's important. But the bent of scripture is honoring and love and unity and grace. And so the Lakers of the 80s Showtime Lakers, that's the real 80s, those are real Lakers. The Lakers that are not the real Lakers, right, Fake news, fake news, frankly. But the signature feature was Magic Johnson and Kareem. Right, James Worthy, Byron Scott. Like these superstars, the Lakers, what they were, if you ask me, was a guy named AC Green. Ac Green was never impressive, never flashy, he was just consistent.

Speaker 2:

He was the sixth man of the year, I think a few times he would come off the bench and not mess up Like AC. Green's job was not to score, it was not to just wow the crowd, it was not even to be noticed. His job was to get in, give the superstars rest and not mess up. And he became famous for not being famous, which was really cool. When we think about spiritual gifts and how they're written about in scripture, I think Paul is calling everybody to be an AC green, wow and don't worry about being a magic or a cream, right. And so when God is thinking about spiritual gifts, he's not really thinking about you getting glory, he's thinking about him getting glory. And the way magic look good is because AC was faithful to the job of just don't mess this up. I'm saying I'm talking better than they all, amen, but there's a revelation right there. But anyways, I'm having fun, guys. But you know we always have to told intention in scripture what he's saying. But in one context he's saying it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. Oh man, that's such there's. I don't know that there's a better way to put that, actually with the AC Green analogy. That's a illustration. That's a because, yeah, he created such consistency and basically a framework that allows others to highlight their gifts. That's right but ultimately to bring and for lack of a better term in our term spiritual gifts.

Speaker 2:

Glory to God right, that's right Amen.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for the better of the team.

Speaker 2:

Amen man, that is so good, so good Wow.

Speaker 1:

Well, I want to jump in. You know, before we get into the good stuff and talk about where we're going, let's just say talk a little bit. You know, I don't want to avoid them today, but unfortunately there is an exercising the spiritual gifts that we see addressed in First Corinthians, or the lack thereof even, can sometimes bring division, discord or distraction to the church body, and we've seen some of that a little bit. But let's touch on some few possible tension points and then maybe offer some ways that we can navigate those.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's interesting to me and I hadn't done a thorough enough taxonomy on this in the writing surrounding the spiritual gifts, but it's interesting to me that the pain points in the early church surrounding the spiritual gifts were the most popularity-inducing ones and so or for lack of a better way to say it the most attention-drawing ones, right. So the points of contention weren't the people with the gifts of helps. The point of contention were the people with the gifts of healing, which is more so, therapeutic ministry, right, and the point of contention wasn't with a gift of faith, administration, all these things. The point of contention, more often than not, were those solo moments in the corporate worship event, ie prophecy, ie tongues right, those were the two that seemed to draw the most chatter in the early church.

Speaker 2:

Indeed, we're probably in a moment where that seems to be some of the case today, right, and so, yeah, I think, I think it's important to talk about it. That's what we end up talking about in church. By the way, if you're new to Bible, new to church, we talk about this a lot. So, anyways, we talk about it, but we're going to preach about it here soon. So, yeah, tongues, what is that? How do you do it? How do you do it how?

Speaker 1:

do you?

Speaker 2:

not, but we got to start here. There are two schools of thought in the church. Okay, and I'm not going to use right or wrong language, but I will say that there's room for you to err on either, because it's just not what we call an essential issue. So there's two schools of thought. One's called cessationism, from the word cease. This is a school of thought that says, hey, the miraculous gifts, or the sign gifts, I E miraculous, healing, right, prophecy in the sense of future telling. And then the tongues get to. We're going to talk about what that means. Anything that okay, that's, that's freaky deep. They say, no, god's done with that. At the close of the canon of scripture, god didn't move like that anymore, right? So that's one school of thought. The other school of thought is um, I forget the old word, but it's, it's continuation, continue, continuous continuation is continuationism or continuation?

Speaker 2:

What what CJ said is it? No, no, god's still God, and the same way God showed up in acts, he still shows up today. So, yeah, someone can have the gift of tongues, and, yes, someone can be a modern day apostle, and, yes, someone can have a miraculous gift of healing and all that good stuff, and so you get to be on either school of thought. I am a mild continuationist, so I still believe miracles happen. Yeah, I still believe. You know, I believe in the gift of apostleship with a lowercase a, yeah. And so I don't think there's any apostles writing scripture today, and I don't think they're doing what's called inaugural acts, right, and so Acts 10, cornelius and his whole house is saved and they all speak in tongues.

Speaker 2:

Acts 2, which was known languages at the time. Acts 2, same thing happens. So I don't think we're going to see that again until we get into Revelation times, and then, whatever that says, we're going to see that. But so I'm a mild cessationist, right, I do believe that someone can have the gift of tongues. I ain't never seen it. Okay, as far as how we see languages, there were known languages. I think there's what's called, again, semantic room, so the word tongues is a Greek word, glossa, which means tongue, and the Latin phraseology is glossa, lalia, right, say that five times fast, no-transcript. And obviously in Acts 2, that was the case, obviously in Acts 10, that was the case, we know that for sure. But there's something called semantic room, whereby there are so many Christians in history who have had what we all think about when we think about the gift of tongues, which is the Bible. Mama say mama say mama my pussy. Mama say mama say mama, my pussy had what we all think about when we think about the gift of tongues, which is the Bible.

Speaker 2:

We're going to get emails, but anyways, and so you know, I don't see that in the thoroughfares of the New Testament Acts 2, acts 10, 1 Corinthians 12. And so I'm a little bit. But I also know what I've seen and what I've experienced and I should be careful saying the only qualifier but I do know a qualifier is Mark 16. Mark 16, verse 18, where Jesus says and behold, they shall do this, they shall do this and they shall speak with. Jesus says new tongues. So what does Jesus mean by new tongues? So in Acts 2, they're speaking tongues that were already known. Language is already known. Acts 10, we know that's the case, right, an inaugural moment. But continuationism says there's something to that. Mark 16. The Greek word for new there is kynos, and so there were two, several words for time in the Greek New Testament. The main ones were either the Greek word chronos and then the Greek word kynos. Chronos meant new with respect to time, so chronology.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, chronology.

Speaker 2:

Kynos meant new with respect to kind, and so Jesus is Mark 16. They're going to have new kinds of tongues Now. People can take that and run with it. But also, it's just interesting to me that the Lord left that kind of room where many Christians say man, I have an utterance, and they marry this with Romans right who communicates in ways that we don't understand, interceding on our behalf, and they use the language that the Holy Spirit has given me, a prayer language. Okay, whether that's in intimacy and connectivity with God or with some sort of you know moment in the worship service where someone speaks in that babble language. So here's the only the only reason I can say this is this is okay. This is why Ricky is a continuationist right. Here is because Paul says if it happens in church, then let there be an interpretation. Now there's two schools of thought too. Someone could have been speaking Greek or French where there was no French in the Bible.

Speaker 2:

But, anyways, but it's interesting to me that, in a very diverse setting like Corinth, where there would have been multiple languages there, that Paul allows for things to be interpreted, and so my question is what does it mean? However, friends, as we get to the last of this nerd out, okay, as we get to the end of it, I don't have to lose much sleep over that, because that's not why Paul's writing the passage. Paul's writing the passage because, whatsoever it was, it was getting in the way of the gospel.

Speaker 2:

And so that's the point. Yeah, so the point, even for Paul. The point was and Paul said I speak more in tongues than you all, and I'm almost sure he's talking about languages, because Paul spoke a lot of languages yeah, right, but the point is, is that, whatever the gift is, yeah, it can't get in the way, it doesn't get to get in the way of the gospel yeah, does that make sense? And so I think that's a tension. Christians, we're nerding out, and I don't know how many people we've lost and who have turned off the podcast. But the whole point, though, is that, whatsoever the spiritual gift is and there's room for discussion on that the principle is get it out of God's way. Unless it's being used God's way, oh good, that's it, that's it, that's the principle. So, anyways, I don't know, I don't even remember the question.

Speaker 2:

I love it, I don't even remember, dan, I don't even remember the question.

Speaker 1:

I just told you to touch on some tension points that caused division in Discord and I think you nailed a bunch of help us all. No, that was really. That was really good. I actually it's so funny. As you were talking about that, I, I one popped in my head and you know. First of all, let me say the difference, even between xeno, lalia or gloss, of all the, however you pronounce it, sure, the difference between those two, even either way, that's still amazing, sure, yes, either way that's it doesn't really.

Speaker 1:

I mean, if you look, at it. I mean, you know, we could get into all that but that's still a miracle and that was amazing.

Speaker 2:

That's phenomenal. That's well said. That's well said either way, that's good.

Speaker 1:

Either way, I'm not really gonna get caught up in that you'll hear that again if you saw, if you were able to interpret a native tongue, I'm pretty impressed, that's right.

Speaker 2:

That's right. Amazing god's at work, that's good. These kinds of things. Well said, brother. So it's well said. I mean well, let's not even go there. Let's not even go into the debate around surrounding the long end of Mark, because some of the earliest manuscripts we have didn't include the last eight chapters of Mark Right, and so you know anyways but that's the Bible. It's there. That's the Bible.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you for that. Well, talk to us a little bit, Ricky, about let's jump into the end of 1 Corinthians 12. And we're getting. We're actually getting right back into what we were just talking about.

Speaker 2:

Sure 1.

Speaker 1:

Corinthians 12, when Paul says but earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you still a more excellent way.

Speaker 2:

Yes, indeed, the posture of the apostle Paul, who might've plausibly been the most gifted and the most spiritually gifted Christian, at least the history bears witness to, in the first century. So let's think about that.

Speaker 1:

PhDs right Exactly.

Speaker 2:

We're pretty sure Paul was cognizant in six to seven languages. Wow, it feels like scholars say he was conversant in 13. Right At one point in scripture says I speak more in tongues than you all.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think that's what he meant. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

Yeah and so, but look at the posture in the passage that you referred to, right, even a guy who understood all these gifts and how they can be leveraged for the kingdom and for the will of Christ and the spread of the gospel. In other words, my point is this the guy who had more clout than all of them in the conversation said, but I want you to desire the stuff that's ultimately important. There's a passage in 2 Corinthians, chapter 12, where Paul says there was a man, whether in this life or another, however he words it who was caught up to the third heaven and saw things which words cannot utter and we know Paul's talking about himself and how. In other words, spiritually gifted to see the echelons of paradise or whatever that was, or eternity or the outer causal or the dimension of the heavenlies, who knows?

Speaker 2:

But he saw it right. And so my point is Paul saw stuff and had gifts that you and I can't possibly imagine. And he said I think at one point in scripture he says but I counted it all as loss, it was nothing but dung save I know Christ and him crucified. And so I think again, again, we can talk about spiritual gifts, but the apostle Paul says earnestly desire the best stuff, and this is bookended. First Corinthians 12 with first Corinthians 13, the love chapter, which was not written just for you to have something biblical to read at your wedding. But is it that context that the apostle Paul says don't let the gifts get in the way of the giver right, and hold fast to that truth and what's really more important. So, anyways, that's my two thoughts. What do you think?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that I was actually going to. I was as I was studying for this and just kind of going over some stuff. I was wondering, and you know, hey, I could be totally off on this one and.

Speaker 1:

I'm willing to admit that right here. But I did notice, and it says when he says in 1 Corinthians 12, but earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you still a more excellent way. Is Paul perhaps being rhetorical here, like saying, after all, I just told you, go ahead and earnestly desire the higher gifts. I'm still going to show you a better way, Like cause he's going to drive towards first Corinthians 13. Right, so I'm just kind of I as I kind of thought about that cause I was like man in context. That's kind of interesting that he would say you know, again, I agree with you, I agree with you. Right, we do know there are bookends.

Speaker 2:

We do know there's one complete thought that's moving towards this thing In 1 Corinthians, 13, 13,. So now, faith, hope and love. Abide these three. But the greatest of these is love he never mentions. You know, when he mentions gifts in that chapter, he mentions them in a diminishing way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right, yeah, right, yeah, like. So tongues doesn't even matter, they sound like some, you know all this kind of stuff. So I think you're right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So you know, whatever those higher gifts are for you, he's like stick with me, I'm going to take you to what's greater. Exactly right, so kind of something like that For me that was really helpful, just in kind of the passage you know so um, but anyway um, I said I wrote down love requires humility and love leads us to unity.

Speaker 1:

So, uh, I just, uh, you know, I really do want it, cause I'm like man, what, what does what does love require? And, uh, we're going to do that in another podcast and, um, you know, but love, love leads us to unity, and humility was the big one that I focused on. I was like, what does it require for me to lay down my rights, the things that I think or that I feel, and, um and to to, to allow someone else to be lifted up for the sake of Christ?

Speaker 1:

for the sake of the body, for the sake of unity, and for me I mean that's humility, right it is.

Speaker 2:

It is Uh and low. I'll be with you always, you know, when we stay low.

Speaker 2:

You're so right and you know, have you ever been around a person who was so talented and so gifted but had the worst attitude and was prideful and arrogant? I've been watching the Olympics, like all of us. We're in the Olympic season and I love these stories of come from behind and man, this little farm girl worked her butt off to get to this point exactly, but then someone who worked just as hard, just as gifted, and they beat their chest before they crossed the finish line, one of our superstars. She was running next to this girl and she was going to beat her and just looked at her with this arrogant looking down upon her.

Speaker 2:

One runner. They introduced him and he's jumping all over saying kind of look at me before he ran and got in third place. No one, no one can use a prideful, gifted person, right. And so there's studies that's been done now that show that productivity of the super programmer who knows all the programming languages, who's gifted, who's MIT, but has a bad attitude, and they've put that guy up to two or three subpar programmers that got along and appreciated being there and guess what the productivity was with the humble guys, and I think that's true in the body of Christ.

Speaker 2:

You know what I'm saying. The Bible says he resisteth the proud, but giveth grace to the humble. And that's my encouragement, that's my exhortation. I'm talking to myself. You know what I mean? Ain't nothing. Can you imagine, dear brother, were I to ever say man, I killed that sermon.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, that just feels.

Speaker 2:

It's just like it doesn't matter how good the preacher is now, it's tainted, it is, it's tainted, it's tainted. It's not of God.

Speaker 1:

So anyway, wow, because you watch those people like you're talking celebratory even for Olympics, and you see them give away kind of the win to someone else, to those that they love, to the people around them, and it's a shared kind of experience and you can just tell it's real you wonder. Every single person wonders what's under that. Do you know what I mean? And that opens up A hundred percent, I think, opportunity for yeah, that's a good word, you know.

Speaker 2:

just take. You know walking with that thread right. Like you know, there are those that would say I'm a better than average communicator of the gospel, but here loving our sheep and just doing life with our people, here I don't hear about the preaching. You know, when people come talk to me, they appreciate the service. Oh, this was a good story, thank you.

Speaker 1:

But when a stranger at our church that I don't know comes up to me, men and women do this alike and they said can I just hug you? Yeah?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then they say I'm so sorry, but I just feel like I know you. Yeah, I think that's what the Lord wants out of his people and it's gifted folk is is that they don't say how did you put that together? And, oh my gosh, yeah, cause you know what Everybody's seen a smart person or a talented person. We've seen too few smart, talented, impressive folk that see themselves equal at the foot of the cross, and I should hope that I would be that the more and more I know you are dear brother in your life.

Speaker 2:

But man that's what it's all about, and that's what Paul's saying in these passages.

Speaker 2:

Oh man, when people get seen by what you said and then you know where it comes from it's just a beautiful thing to be able to point them to Jesus. That's good. That's good. Well, think about this. Let's tease that out a little bit more. Like Jesus was infectious. You know, jesus said crazy stuff. Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you can have no part of me, right? And it just freaked folks out. He was always the last part of his life. He's always talking about his death. He's always making the kingdom sound complex with all these parables that nobody understood. But he could heal folks and it never went to his head. And I think that's when the disciples are like this dude could take over the world. He's got thousands clamoring just to touch him. The dude won't get cocky. Who is this?

Speaker 1:

guy. Yeah, what he says must be true, that's so good, well, as always here. We hope that our conversations are engaging, but we want to make sure to provide people with helpful resources as well. So what are some resources you'd like to point people to that they might find helpful or beneficial?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, we definitely want you guys to check the show notes and our church services. We're going to be talking about this, but we have an online spiritual gift assessment and what it looks like to just kind of figure out how God has anointed you and gifted you to show up. Look at these proof texts that we talked about First Corinthians 12 and 13,. Ephesians 4, 7 through 13, isaiah 11, romans 12, all great passages. And then man to Pastor Timothy Keller. God rest his soul, one of his great works for the church, gospel in Life and Discovering your Spiritual Gifts Great, great article that we've got for you as well, yep, great stuff.

Speaker 1:

And then, as always, we want your questions, comments and feedback. So be sure to leave a comment on YouTube or, if you're listening, email us at theother6days at southwestchurchcom. That's the number six, ricky. Any last comments or thoughts before we wrap this thing up?

Speaker 2:

Mama say say mama booza well, there you have it.

Speaker 1:

Thanks again for joining us on another episode of the other six days podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe, follow, share and like, spread the word and, as always, take what you've heard and turn it into something you can do to further the gospel in the world around you. Until next time, peace.