The Other 6 Days
As the church, we spend most of our thought, time and effort working towards our weekend gatherings; with the majority of our lives being lived outside of Sundays. The Other 6 Days Podcast is designed to help us be more intentional about the ways we can "show up" for the gospel the other 6 days of the week.
The Other 6 Days
We LOVE Discipleship! | The Other 6 Days | Episode 43
In this episode, we talk about the main thrust of our Southwest Vision statement as a gospel-centered, multiethnic, intergenerational church that LOVES discipleship! We open with some conversation about what discipleship has looked like in our own lives personally and how that has impacted our ministries. We then discuss a little about what we mean when we say "discipleship" and how we see it all throughout Scripture as a clarion call to every Christian.
SHOW NOTES & RESOURCES:
- Rooted - https://southwestchurch.com/next-steps/rooted/
- The Cost of Discipleship - Dietrich Bonhoeffer (https://a.co/d/3W93iaz)
- A.W. Tozer - Discipleship - What it truly means to be a Christian (https://a.co/d/4GYdnBW)
- SW Residency Program - (https://www.swresidency.com/)
- John Mark Comer - Practicing the Way (https://a.co/d/ipNiRuu)
For more information or to join the conversation, head over to https://southwestchurch.com/theother6days or email us at theother6days@southwestchurch.com
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Welcome back to another episode of the Other Six Days podcast, where we chat about life outside of Sundays and what it means to live from our gatherings, and not just for them. I'm your host, cj McFadden, and here again, as always, with Pastor Ricky Jenkins, and today we're getting ready to chat about all things discipleship. But today, before we do, pastor Ricky, could you tell us your top three to five greatest influences in your life? So, men or women, but God, men or women of God that you can point to and say they had a transformative impact as mentors, teachers, guides and friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's an easy question, low hanging fruit. So the godly people in my life who've made indelible impacts that still form me some of them from the grave is obviously my mother, the late Jackie Jenkins, who just showed me a picture of the gospel every day of her life. Who just showed me a picture of the gospel every day of her life. My grandfather, who discipled me actually, and when I came up in the faith and started preaching he just took me on and wasn't just a grandfather but also a pastor and a big he's bigger than a big brother but a mentor and just taught me so much about Jesus. A guy named Brian Loritz who started mentoring me about 25 years ago Now we're more friends than mentor, mentee, but really opened up doors and kind of showed me what vocational ministry is all about.
Speaker 2:A guy named Greg Waybright who's a scholar and mentor and just always kind of shepherded me and taught me. A guy named Crawford Loritz, who's Brian's dad has done this, and there's several more, but the guy who's currently kind of being an imprint on my heart is a guy named Kenton Beshore out of Mariner's Church, who's just showing me what it means to disciple a large congregation. I don't, I don't have that right. I didn't. I wasn't exposed to that growing up, and so he's just really showing me the ropes there. So what?
Speaker 1:about you, dude. Oh man, that's so sweet, yeah for me. Well, first, do you know how many guys that I wrote letters or emails to when I first got into ministry, going like man, would you, would you mentor me? And I didn't get a lot of response on that. You know, either they were too far away or, you know, too busy.
Speaker 1:But Todd McIntyre used to be here and so he taught me a lot. You know, I learned a lot about leadership and some other things from other people, but Todd taught me what it meant to be a pastor. He was the one that encouraged me and said, hey, I think you got that in you and really kind of encouraged that. So that was huge. I love that. Obviously, you've played a huge part and we'll talk a little bit more about big, big part. Just watching him, the way that he interacts with men growing up and youth ministry and all those things I mean, he just, like you said, made an indelible impact and just the way that I see like the importance of ministry and doing life with other people. And then also my kids, man, my kids have really pushed me to actually, you know, to step into, to lean into, explore scripture, ask big questions and to start writing, and so and then the men's ministry here at Southwest was probably one of the biggest influences.
Speaker 1:They gave me an opportunity to stand in front of a bunch of men and you know, that's actually where I found my prep, my passion for discipleship, and those guys were so gracious as I kind of learned what it meant to like you know and then I was like man, doing life in community with a bunch of guys. I was kind of a lone ranger and the men's ministry actually helped me realize doing life with a bunch of men is like is a way to go.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's powerful. I didn't know that. That's good, okay.
Speaker 1:Awesome, Yep. So it's funny, I used to get discouraged. They used to tell me if you can do it, then maybe I can too, and so initially that kind of diminished my effort that I was putting in.
Speaker 2:But God corrected me at some point and said hey, I designed you and wired you and gifted you for this, so embrace it and then I'll take care of the rest. Exactly Right, yeah, exactly Right, yeah. I feel like you know, um, what you celebrate. You repeat, you know what I mean. There's just, there's something about man being faithful to what God tells us to do, celebrating that. That really makes it cultural for you. It becomes part of okay, this is who I am.
Speaker 2:This is how I show up. This is what the men's group did with you, right. That was celebrated in your heart and now it's part of you forever, so I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, as a church and within a context of group, about and referencing Matthew 28, 16 through 20 and second Timothy, unpacking the call to discipleship and what it means to be a true disciple. But this passion was birthed with you a long time ago. Maybe tell us a little bit that that's so good, yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Like you know, our church's North star is discipleship. Right, like we love discipleship and I remember when we were kind of crafting vision and mission. Remember those days, yeah, and I remember when we were kind of crafting vision and mission, remember those days and I remember kind of fighting for we love discipleship. Every other church says we make disciples, we exist to make disciples, we love disciple making, you know, but I was like I want the word love in there, yeah, because I think, I think, cj, that the best thing in life is engagement with another life for the purpose of growing closer to Jesus and reaching the world. Like I believe that, I believe everybody can do it, I believe everybody's called to do it and I believe that once you get engaged in it, it's such an infectious thing in your soul and your spirit that it just becomes this indispensable part of life. So discipleship is everything for me and for us and for the Bible, and you know we define it this way Discipleship is the call of the gospel to produce discipleship, reproducing followers of Jesus Christ through life-on-life engagement.
Speaker 2:And when we break down the Great Commission, that's essentially how we break it down, that every last one of us who names Christ as Lord is called to pour out that which has been poured in in a real, life-on-life context, in such a way that when I'm finished pouring into this person, they now are equipped to go and do it for the next person. This was Jesus's plan. This is how Jesus did it when he was walking the earth, and this is how the disciples, this is how God wants us to do it. So for us, this is everything at Southwest, so yeah, oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, poured into so that you can pour onto others. So, yeah, second Timothy, two, two. And so what you've heard from me in the presence of many witnesses and trust of faithful men who would be able to teach others also, that's resonated huge with me.
Speaker 1:You've, you know, kind of beat that into our heads through the 12 a whole bunch of times and that you said one time 25% of your calling is on a Sunday and the other 75% is the other six days, hence the name of the podcast. So let's talk a little bit about what discipleship looks like in our lives. So we'll jump right into. You know, yours is called the 12 and mine's the armory.
Speaker 2:Well, it's such a good question, a good way to kind of position ourselves for this conversation, Because the average person listening hears discipleship and maybe thinks this one thing. Another person thinks another thing. You can say discipleship to a Bible-believing church and ask the whole congregation what it is, and you'll get 100 different answers. Right, and so everybody looks at it a different way. Discipleship, I know it's about growing in Jesus. I know it's about building myself up and being equipped. But okay, that's why I go to church on Sunday, that's discipleship. Or I'm going to a conference next month, that's discipleship. And of course that's somewhat true. But the best way I've always kind of heard it broken down is that Sunday is just a huddle.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where we call a play for the week. Yeah, but discipleship is how that play is carried out in day-to-day life. Right, and so, god, you know, we used to say this all the time there are many, there's many things. How does it go? There are many things, how does it go? There are many things a Christian can do. Being alone, being alone, how does it go? So how does it go? There are many things a Christian can do. Being alone is not one of them.
Speaker 1:I think that's how it goes.
Speaker 2:But the whole idea is that God sees us fleshing out the gospel with people in community just fleshing out the gospel with people in community. So for me, for the last four years it's been with 11 guys. We call ourselves the 12, that God laid on my heart and I asked them hey, I've seen you be a faithful guy. I'd like you to spend two, three touch points with me every month. I'm going to show you everything I know about Jesus in a few years and then I'm going to do that with an expectation that you're going to find your guys after I'm done with you and you'll pour out the gospel to others. And so that's how it's been fleshed out. It's been fun. We just kind of tied a bow on our four years and now I'm looking for the next group. But, man, I'll say this about the 12, watching these guys, some of them grow from milk to meat and some of them go from unhealthy to healthy and, if I had to keep it real, some of them going from boy you crazy to oh.
Speaker 2:now, man, you got some sense yeah is the great, great honor and humbling privilege to watch, and they've challenged me and they've sharpened me. I'm better as a result of being with them. So the 12 has been how I've been fleshed out. What about you with the armory?
Speaker 1:well, the armory was birthed out of the 12, because that was you had called us to. I spent about two, a little over two and a half years with you and then, yeah, I came to a point where I was like, man, I gotta, I gotta go out and do your. You're calling us to go out and you know, reproduce and produce reproducing disciples, so I gotta go do the same.
Speaker 1:And so I pulled about two to three guys together and actually one of them's my son, which at first I had a little trepidation about that, but it's actually been a sweet journey and so I've taken all the things that you've taught us and applied it to these guys and it's just been life-giving Watching, just being able to I mean the conversations we've had watching these guys grow in their faith and to see their marriages flourish. That's right, and you know it hasn't always you know it's not always easy, it never is.
Speaker 1:It's messy, that's exactly right. But you know a part of that that I love, and even being in your group with the 12, that was just so beautiful. Watching the other guys Again, it was another element where I was like you know what I'm. I always been a Lone Ranger. I can do this faith journey on my own, Like it's always about this individual ascent or pursuit of God, and the 12 flip that on its end, as well as men's ministry and now the armory and I can't you can't go back after you've seen that.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I love too, man, how, like you know, with our experience with the 12, your experience with armory, there's some people listen to this and think, oh yeah, but I can't teach a group. You know, this is what I learned about discipleship you ain't got to know everything, you just need to know more than they do. So I just want to like everybody out there listening to know that if God's in you, you are qualified. There's a season for learning basics and we're always going to be learners. But, man, sometimes people talk themselves out of disciple making because it's just, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Ricky knows some Greek and CJ knows Hebrew and all this. No, no, no, we've learned a little stuff, and if we hadn't learned much, we learn what not to do and we're going to, in community, share that with others. So, whoever you are, if you, love Jesus, been in the church, right at least to have an expression of scripture, that's been invested in you. You're ready. You're ready to teach somebody All you got to do. You ain't got to know everything, you just got to know more than they do.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, one of the guys in my group had already decided he was going to jump out, and it was the guy that I thought was, you know, needed a few more years or some more time and you know what he found it within the particular context.
Speaker 1:You know he's able to reach people that I'll never reach. That's right, and so he started. He's starting a little group and gathering some people around him and man watching that guy flourish. I can't even tell you that. Just I mean that, just that grows my own faith. I love that.
Speaker 2:Yes, it does, it does. Yeah, praise Jesus for that line, bro, like watching a soul take seriously the Great Commission and venture out and go to do it.
Speaker 2:So, and I would say to all of us listening to that we call this a downline, right? So the people that I've discipled, that have come after me, are my downline right. So CJ's armor is his downline and now your guys are breaking off and that's going to be part of my downline, right? So CJ's armor is his downline and now your guys are breaking off and that's going to be part of your downline. So the gospel is kind of like this great pyramid system, right, where, when I get to heaven 300 years from now in Jesus name, because we were faithful to this, there'll be people finding you saying, hey, you don't know me, but you discipled this guy, who discipled this guy, who discipled this guy who discipled this guy who 200 years later got to me, and it's all because you took the great commission seriously.
Speaker 1:That's the hope that we have with the gospel. Yep, that was.
Speaker 2:that was Jesus' plan for the gospel to go out so um, yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about a little bit about the importance of evangelism's part within discipleship. So, often the two are talked about as separate components to a person's faith journey. But I've heard you mention that evangelism is the natural outgrowth or byproduct of discipleship. Can you impact that a little Absolutely?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. So even when you look at the pattern of Jesus with his disciple making right, like he starts teaching, apparently there's some fanfare surrounding Jesus. Here's a new rabbi in Nazareth and Galilee. Well, jesus didn't wait till Peter learned a lot. We don't even know where Peter's faith was with God. He sees him fishing and says come, follow me and I'll make you fishers of men. And we might presume safely that the Lord started with just a heart that was willing to listen. And Jesus has come and see. And he tells them all of that.
Speaker 2:And I always tell people that if you're disciple making in fact in the Great Commission it says done to all the world, teaching and baptizing that idea of baptizing is the idea that I'm presenting Jesus to people in community as well, and so I would say that if there's somebody that wants to listen but not saved, but wants to be in your group, you better put them in your group so you can have that moment to just explain to them who Jesus is, what the gospel is all about and, as they embrace Jesus, grow them up in their faith. And I just think, cj, that if I'm evangelizing a brother that's coming to my church and I'm just witnessing him and I'm meeting him for coffee. I'm already discipling him Already. It's already starting there, and then hopefully we get that opportunity to grow up. What would you say to that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, same thing. I mean, you know, evangelism and discipleship. I think they're not mutually exclusive, they're inseparable.
Speaker 2:You know, the two are married so helping disciples understand that is paramount.
Speaker 1:So you know it says what Romans 10, 14 through 15, you know. And how can they believe in him if they've never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? So the telling and the hearing is crucial to the sending. So I just, I always think that that's important because you know, when people separate, we say, hey, I'm in a discipleship group, I'm doing discipleship, and I'm like, well, are you out? You know, talking to people about your faith and stuff.
Speaker 1:And that's where usually that's where it all starts, and some them actually they don't. One's not first, it's not like chicken egg, right, right, that's true, yeah, yeah, well said, yeah, so yeah, that's kind of my take on it. So so let's jump in. You obviously, um, often, uh mention, uh, paul barnabas and timothy illustration, so I love this one, uh, we're talking about it's time to bring that back to.
Speaker 2:We haven't done that in a while. Yeah, that's, a lot of new folks hadn't heard this. But you know a lot of people when you preach discipleship they get excited because it's like, oh, this is God's plan to reach the world. Like God's not actually planning for all eight billion people to come to Southwest on Sunday and hear about Jesus. He wants us to do that work and people get moved by it. But here's their question what do I do? Where do I start? And this is this is kind of answer the question when do I start?
Speaker 2:And we always say that a Christian ought to have a Paul beyond you or ahead of you, you ought to have a Timothy behind you and you ought to have a Barnabas beside you. And so Paul, this kind of authority, wisdom sage figure who taught Timothy everything he needs to know, wisdom sage figure who taught Timothy everything he needs to know. And then Barnabas, who walked alongside Paul. These all personality metaphors where I would say, whoever you are, you need to ask the question who in my life or who have I seen that I may have the opportunity to say will you be my Paul? Will you be somebody that pours into me? I need to be poured into At the same time.
Speaker 2:I would say, if you're ready, that there's probably somebody that needs you to pour into them, that's your Timothy, who you start discipling. But then, man, I call these road dogs. You just need somebody to do life with each and every day, hold you accountable, walking through life together. That's your Barnabas. That's that friend, that gospel friend in the ministry, that knows the ins and outs of the day to day. And I can say that's my testimony. I've got a few Pauls, I've got several Timothys and I've got a couple of Barnabases doing life with me. And I would just say that that is a holistic picture of what we see in scripture, what we see in the gospels, what we see in the apostles, and I would say every Christian ought to figure out. Okay, that's my next step. Who do I need to talk to to put in those places in my life?
Speaker 1:Well, and I found it super helpful in a practical way with those two for who you're pouring into, and I say onto and out to for your Timothy, your Barnabas and your Paul, because when you identify those in your life it actually kind of activates a little bit how you show up in those relationships. You're always keeping that at the forefront of your mind and so I'm like, hey, this particular relationship and stuff, it kind of gets others focused and then also it allows them to know where our relationship sits a lot of times.
Speaker 1:So I even talk to them pretty straightforward about it.
Speaker 2:They identify it because they want to move from a Timothy to a Paul, and so they're thinking about how to glean those things.
Speaker 2:That's a word you know if, if, if, if this rubric is biblical and we would argue that it absolutely is Paul behind you, know ahead of you, timothy behind you, barnabas beside you I'm a witness that it diminishes selfishness in your heart. I'm a witness to that. I'm a witness that don't get me wrong. You'll have it to deal with, but it'll never deal with you If you're in healthy, disciple-making relationships. It just works. Discipleship works. Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it definitely gives you a more other-centric focus for sure. Absolutely Well. I mean, I think we've covered a bunch. So you know, as always our conversations, we want to be engaging, but we always want to provide people with helpful resources.
Speaker 2:So what are some things that you'd like to point people to that they might find helpful? Well, there's things that this church offers that we have rooted. Okay, so rooted is a 10 week experience. You do it in community, with people. It's a great first step for you. We do it every quarter at Southwest 10 weeks and you just discover, together, in community, your purpose before Christ. You discover who Christ is and what the gospel is all about, what's the vision of the church? Just the essential fundamentals of what it means to live for Jesus. And we got one started up in a couple of weeks, so I'd encourage you to do that.
Speaker 2:Some of the greatest books ever written on discipleship, dietrich Bonhoeffer. And, by the way, y'all, if you hadn't seen that movie, go see that movie. Oh my gosh, cried, cried, cried. The Cost of Discipleship, aw. Pastor Young Song at our church is starting our residency program and he's doing a curriculum, isn't he, cj? It's open to the residents, but it's open to congregants as well, just to kind of get sharp on some Bible teaching, but through a disciple-making lens, where you learn the scripture but you learn. Okay, I learned this in Matthew 13, but how am I going to teach that to somebody else?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like, what am I going to do now in light of what I know and you can go to swresidencycom if you want to check that out. Also a lot of the stuff that we're talking about, like Rooted not the residency yet, but a few other things we have our discipleship team, have men's and women's ministry here that you can start or lead a group. You can reach out to them. You can go to southwestchurchcom and connect with our discipleship team and they'll get you connected with that. But all of this stuff, too, is offered online. We have some online offerings coming up for our rooted classes as well.
Speaker 1:So if you're, not if you're listening to this from a distance you're not out of the loop because you're not here local, so I'll always point people to John Mark Comer Love is practicing the way it's super practical really good for our younger demographic.
Speaker 2:for sure, love him.
Speaker 1:And then, as always, guys, we want your questions, comments and feedback. So if you have any questions and you want to know hey, how did I start this whole discipleship thing, what does that look like for me? We would love to chat with you. So leave a comment or email us at the other six days at southwestchurchcom the number six, ricky any last comments or thoughts before we wrap this up?
Speaker 2:We're in the fourth quarter. Y'all getting a gain Discipleship baby.
Speaker 1:Amen. Well, there you have it, guys. Thanks for joining us again on another episode of the Other Six Days. Be sure to hit that subscribe, follow, share and like, Spread the word and, as always, take what you've heard and turn it into something you can do to further the gospel and the world around you.