The Other 6 Days

Faith Without Works | The Other 6 Days | Episode 46

• Southwest Church • Season 3 • Episode 46

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In this episode, we begin a discussion about "faith & works", the place and importance of each in our salvation and the overarching call of the gospel, as well as some the ways we tend to get it right and wrong in our lives.

  • Sam Allberry: James for You: Showing you how real faith looks in real life (God's Word for You) (https://a.co/d/hYlzVO9)
  • A.W. Tozer: The Pursuit of Christian Maturity: Flourishing in the Grace and Knowledge of Christ ( (https://a.co/d/amJkkp5)
  • RC Sproul: What Is Faith? (https://a.co/d/28187fn)


For more information or to join the conversation, head over to https://southwestchurch.com/theother6days or email us at theother6days@southwestchurch.com

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Speaker 1:

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Other Six Days podcast, where we chat about life outside of Sundays and what it means to live from our gatherings, and not just for them. I'm your host, cj McFadden, here again with Pastor Ricky Jenkins, and today we begin a discussion about faith and works, the place and importance of each in our salvation and the overarching call of the gospel, as well as some other ways that we tend to get it right and wrong in our lives. But first, as always, we would like to start off with something a little more informal. Ricky, famous or personal, if you could create a Mount Rushmore of Christlike role models, who and why would they be on it?

Speaker 2:

That's such a great question, personal for sure. My mom would be on there, my grandfather would be on there. I'd put my dad on there. My grandfather who would be on there, I put my dad on there. Uh, I think the fourth would be, um, the fourth would be, I don't know. I don't know. I want to say evie hill, who's a pastor I've enjoyed watching for years.

Speaker 2:

He's been dead forever. Yeah, or gardener c taylor, somebody like that, but definitely more accessible personalities. You know what I mean? I, I those, those have been really the kind of the models for me. What about you?

Speaker 1:

I would do, um, yeah, same, same as you. I can only think of personal ones, which was, uh, my mom, uh, my wife Kelly. Um, you know, they're selfless, servant hearted. You know just people that I've, uh, they're compassionate, so I mean, those are the people I've definitely put on there. Um, and then also put the apostle Paul popped into my mind.

Speaker 1:

I just think like he's just a you know a pillar of the faith and uh then I'd throw you know like a CS Lewis or Martin Luther King or somebody else on there too as well, but um yeah those are the ones that obviously you're going to go with who I can vouch for that right I got receipts, I got receipts. Yeah, there you go. So why are we talking about faith and works today? Where do we and where do we get some? Let's get some helpful handles on it and some good news as we get this conversation started.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think these are conversations that really help you begin to frame the gospel you know, understand how in your mind and in your heart, the gospel is organized. We're going to help you today, figure out boxes where to put all the pieces when we think about God, when we think about grace, when we think about salvation, and how God looks at us versus how we tend to look at us.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2:

We are fundamentally transactional people, right, you get what you pay for, you get out what you put in. And God is fundamentally non transactional, and we're going to talk about how he's also, at the same time, entirely transactional, only he puts the transactions on someone else not us you know.

Speaker 2:

So we're going to talk about all that stuff, right. Only he puts the transactions on someone else, not us. So we're going to talk about all that stuff, right. But essentially I think it's important that you know faith and works is a long ongoing conversation in the body of Christ, if you're new to church stuff. So first it's just important for us as believers to know the place and importance of both faith and works in our salvation and just the overarching framework of whatever it is that is the gospel so faith is just this belief, right?

Speaker 2:

I put my trust in the finished work of jesus. So, either way, we're talking about works. Yep, but it's whose?

Speaker 1:

works whose works right, right so it's my faith.

Speaker 2:

Faith is is belief in the finished work of jesus christ. Well, a works thing or work, and when you hear works, think performance, performance, think Performance. Yeah, think deeds, think living out, you know what God has done. In me, that's an outward expression of one's trust in the finished work of Christ through tangible acts of kindness, action, good deeds and so on and so forth.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, yeah, the debate around faith and works can become a little contentious and that's kind of what we're talking about today because of differing interpretations and the relationship between the two, and our hope is to bring a little clarity to that today. Two of the common points of view that we see often is faith is all we need, so salvation comes solely from faith alone, in Christ alone right. We see that in Ephesians 2, 8 through 9, where it says we're saved by grace through faith and not our works.

Speaker 1:

And then Romans 4, 2 through 3, paul says that Abraham was not justified by works but by his faith, and the other one that we see is faith and works together are necessary for salvation. So that's another one that we see that in James 2, which is kind of where we'd be camping in the book of James- today was Abraham? Was not our father Abraham justified by works?

Speaker 1:

when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar. So this conversation typically lands, like I said, in the book of James. And what did James mean when he said that faith without works is dead? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So these are in some ways, just to kind of continue helping us categorize these conversations. When we say faith that works together, that has largely historically been held by the Catholic Church. Exactly that salvation is by faith and works. And then faith alone has for the most part been held down by the Protestant Church, and boy has that ever been muddier.

Speaker 2:

But anyways the whole idea that man, if I'm going to heaven, why, yeah? Am I going to heaven solely because of my faith in Jesus? Also my faith in Jesus and my works for Jesus. What does the Bible tend to say? And you've solely, rightly, located this the book of James was contentious in the Reformation, so much so that Martin Luther famously tore the book of James out of his copy of the Bible. That's what I heard, because James speaks to you know, you show me faith, you show me a faith and I'll show you a faith by my works. And so what does he wait a minute, james? Are you saying that I have? Okay, does that now mean it's back to faith and works? So where are we? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So and then you know it's not just a biblical thing. We just struggle with that Right Like cause. I'm supposed to be a good person, I'm really supposed to do good things. I'm pretty sure the Bible says that.

Speaker 1:

So which is which is a right question? So, yeah, yeah, like which one is it built off? And you said it.

Speaker 1:

Like you know, is he contradicting is James contradicting, yeah, and we kind of see that as we move down a little bit. In Ephesians two, eight through nine it says we're saved by grace, through faith, and not by works. But you know, then James two, 17, says so also, faith by itself, if it does not have works, it's dead. So we can kind of see the two. You know they're seemingly opposing each other absolutely and so go.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you know, one of the things that helped me understand the book of James was the word authentication. So James is not eschewing this reality, this truth, biblically speaking, that I'm saved by grace through faith in Christ alone, that I put my trust and faith in Jesus, and that is on account of my faith in what Jesus has done for me, not my faith in what I do for Jesus, what I do for myself. That is the basis upon which I am saved. I believe that James is bringing us towards an authentication aspect of our faith. In other words, this is how I can know that my faith is authentic, that it is real and working and growing.

Speaker 2:

And we see this amplified, not just in the book of James, we see it amplified throughout Scripture. Jesus said you will know a tree by its fruit. Jesus says those who love me will keep my commandments. But scripture is saying on some level, there will be some evidence that I put my trust in my faith in Jesus. That is authenticated through the outworking or the works of my faith in Jesus. And so essentially, that's what I would say. So back to James 2, 17. So also, faith by itself is what James says yeah, If it does not have works is dead and so let me take that to an extreme illustration.

Speaker 2:

So I get saved, I put my trust and faith in Jesus, I get baptized, but nothing changes. I'm not even sorry about continuing in sin. In fact, I get worse. Every chance you give me to show that I have an authentic faith in Jesus Christ, I turn my back on it. I think James was written to question whether or not you know you actually have it and where you actually put your trust and faith in Jesus. Maybe you named Jesus Christ as Lord, but then I receive him as Lord because the Bible assures me that when I truly receive him to put my faith in Jesus, his spirit now dwells on the inside of me, thereby giving me unction to want to do good, maybe not all the time, but most of that, okay, like, give me power to be able to do good for the right reasons. So doing good is not just doing good, as doing it for the right reasons, as well, and so we've got a couple of that together so anyways, yeah, no, that's great, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So anyways, yeah, no, that's great, yeah, yeah. It says, you know, salvation is not a result of, but is always a result in, works and good deeds, like you said, and so I love that you setting up like it authenticates your faith and James it also. You also said Paul kind of counteracts legalism with his Ephesians approach and James kind of corrects antinomianism, which you know. Like you said, it's kind of free to party Like hey, I get the laws fulfilled and I'm good to go, you know, and we say no.

Speaker 1:

You know we're still called out of what has been done for you. In light of what has been done for you, we do think you know we see fruit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, paul famously asked in Romans shall I continue in sin, that grace may abound.

Speaker 2:

God forbid Meaning that salvation. If you see in your salvation a permission and freedom to continue in sin, you have negated the whole purpose and the whole hope and the whole plan of what God is trying to do with you and salvation and reconciling you to himself and giving you and making you to a new creation and investing his spirit on the inside of you to pull you now towards God's vision and grandeur for how life ought to be lived out. So Paul is saying so if you continue in sin, I don't think. I don't think the snow stuck.

Speaker 1:

That's a good. I don't think the snow stuck, I like that, I. I don't think the snow's stuck, I like that. I like this statement too. It says we don't need good works, we are them.

Speaker 1:

And so Ephesians 2, 8, for by grace you've been saved through faith, not of yourselves, but basically, for we are, as a workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which he's prepared in advance for us to do. I think quite often that when we're really getting to the bottom of it, the real question most often being proposed, by the Western. Christian is. What is the minimal requirement needed to be saved and to go to heaven when we die.

Speaker 2:

It's a wonderful question, because a snake first asked it. Oh my gosh forgive me.

Speaker 2:

There's a British apologist out of Cambridge that did that once and I've been looking for an opportunity to say. It's a wonderful question because I recall that the first time that it was asked, a snake posed it. But you know, just to set up your you know, hey, what can I think? You're right, that is the Western construct. Where's the box that I check in order to be saved, in order to go to heaven? And I would also say that the reason I think Jesus came when he came is because the Pharisees were largely living life that way. You know, what is the thing that I can, which is really another way to say what can I control? You know what I mean. For this to be all of what I want it to be, I like what you put here.

Speaker 2:

Is my ticket punched theology, or how much faith is enough? Faith right, and so salvation holistically, as a process, are stages right? We understand that when I put my trust and faith in Jesus, my status changes. We call this justification. The old preacher used to say justification happens when I put my trust and faith in Jesus. God accepts me as his son or as his daughter right, puts his spirit on the inside of me, justifies me changes my legal spiritual standing from sinner to saint, from darkness to light, from hell bound to heaven bound Right, from hopeless to hopeful. And the old preacher uses a justification is just as if I've never seen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's good, right, and then, through his spirit, he starts this process of sanctifying me. I am freed, right, I am saved, but now sanctification happens, which now means, through his spirit partnering with me. He's going to make me increasingly more and more like Christ. On my way then to glorification where, even though, once I get saved, the penalty of sin is removed, well, when I die and go to heaven, I'm glorified and the presence of sin is removed, meaning I don't need sanctification because I will be in a perfected eternity with Christ, my Savior, forever and forever, and forever. So that's kind of how we see what God is doing in salvation. That's good.

Speaker 1:

I like that, I love that too. The presence of sin removed through glorification, I think in a framework I saw was we are born, we mature through life and then we go to be with Jesus. So kind of those three categories or stages like fall into that rubric a little bit. One that pops up often is yeah, but what about the thief on the cross? So you know what about Abraham and Isaac? But those ones pop, those are common uses for that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was one of our hermeneutics for being able to say it's got to be by grace.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly Through faith In Christ alone. Right, that's the minimal requirement right there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean the guy's literally. I don't think he was nailed like Jesus was nailed, but we don't know he could have been nailed and took the cross talking to Jesus. My thought is that you're on ropes because I'm thinking if you're nailed, you just don't want to have a conversation. Like Jesus was nailed to the cross saying hey so what are you doing today? I'm nailed.

Speaker 1:

I'm suffering and dying.

Speaker 2:

And so I mean, if ever there was a picture, perfect example, example par excellence of the fact that it's all about Jesus and it's not about me. It's the thief on the cross has this conversation with Jesus, chastises his other guy on the cross for criticizing Jesus. This is Lord, um um, you know, expresses faith in Jesus. Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus says this day you shall be with me in paradise. Now I love what Alistair Biggs says.

Speaker 2:

He gets to heaven that night. And he gets to heaven and the old archangel is up there saying okay, what's your name, buddy? He's like I'm the thief on the cross. I don't know that. You were planned that. How did you get here? And he's like. Jesus said I could come. He's like but do you know about the doctrine of justification? He? He's like hmm, but do you know about the doctrine of justification? He's like never heard of it. He said have you read your whole Bible? No idea what that is. So why do you think you get to come here? The guy on the middle cross said I can come. And that's the beauty of the gospel is that it can't be by works, because Jesus, who loves him, would have said hey, I'm going to get you off the cross so you can go do a few Hail Marys and deliver some goods to the poor and pay some tithes. It can't be about works. Jesus says this day just because you put your faith in me, you will be in heaven forever.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's so good. Yeah, I love that. I love that you put it like that. I heard one time somebody asked me when he gets to. When he got into heaven, they said you know, hey, what denomination yeah, you know. Yeah, he's like I don't even know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2:

Yeah jesus just said I could go like what denomination like tens, yeah, 20s. What are you talking about? We're talking money.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's so good right um, yeah, and then abraham, uh, abraham and isaac, so you know, that's uh kind of proposed in there saying that, uh, I believe in james, right, yeah, uh, talking about that, it was by his works that his faith was made known. But Abraham, it wasn't one or the other, it was a both, and that's right. So it was faith made evident by works. Works provides evidence of faith. So doing good things is a good thing, right. But there's some things we got to remember, right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. We got to understand that. You know, pre salvation works are pointless, post salvation works are paramount, right? So once my works find their right focus and their hope and their reason for being in Christ as we emulate his good works in the earth towards us, that's authentic faith, that's authentic works, that's destiny, that's what God has willed for our lives. I like what you have here. Faith is always personal, it's never private. The reason we have a faith God saved us, not just to save us but to also work through us and to show others his goodness.

Speaker 2:

And so, if I have true faith, god saved us, not just to save us, but to also work through us and to show others his goodness, right. And so, if I have true faith, I can't keep it to myself. I can't. I've got to love on somebody, I've got to serve somebody, I've got to tell someone of his goodness. So anyway.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, and I like what you said about the pre-salvation works are pointless right there, because the the, the whole idea, is prior to understanding why we do good works, like you know, philanthropic endeavors, it's kind of moral standard. These things that we do, uh, are for selfish gain and for I mean, ultimately they they're not focused, we're not doing them for the right reason and so they don't have any like perk or benefit really um outside of making ourselves just feel good or whatever it might do in the immediate thing, but in eternal level.

Speaker 2:

Post-salvation works are paramount, because that is proof of Well, especially in the vein of when you give your life to Jesus, and this takes growth right, and I ain't there, so let me say that. But it is a sweet thing now to do these good works as God leads us.

Speaker 1:

And if you're not, careful, cj you'll still catch yourself doing it for transactional reasons exactly.

Speaker 2:

I want them to see me, I want them to thank me, I want them to. But, man, when you, when you get in in the lord and you start serving people because you serve people, yeah, and the love on jesus, uh, yeah, there'll be times where they think you know all that. But, man, when you realize that I'm preaching for an audience of one.

Speaker 1:

You know that's a free.

Speaker 2:

It's hard to get there. By the way, Like I said, I ain't that. I'm getting there but there's a piece that comes there. You know what I'm saying and that's one of the authenticating features of your faith as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That I'm. I'm being good to you because God wants me to be good to you. It's not so I can get fanfare. It's not so I can feel good about myself.

Speaker 1:

It's because I have a savior who was good to be able to yeah, when you share when you get to share with someone else all right because of what christ has done in you and you get to convey that to someone else, that it's not because of me, but it's because of him in and through me. There's just something different about the way that that hits. There's this um story.

Speaker 2:

I may close sunday with this story about this. Uh, we've all seen the video now I bet and I'm going to botch it but I think it was a Polish Jew who, just before World War II, before the Nazis came to get all of the Jews out of Poland, this guy went underground and rescued dozens and dozens of Jewish children and got them out of Poland either into America, anyways he just hustled all these kids out of it, gets through World War II. He miraculously survives and decades pass, decades. So it's like the I think it's the 80s and he's in a studio audience of a talk show over in Europe and he's just checking out a show that he really likes.

Speaker 2:

Well, little did this man know the whole show was going to be about him. And he's sitting in the audience and a lady comes up to sit next to him, and then another, then another and before you know it, these 30, 40 people who he had freed come to tell him thank you for freeing us. Here's the thing he had never told a soul about what he had done. It was a story kept famous by the children he rescued, and that really shows, I think, a virtuous thing. You know what I mean yeah.

Speaker 2:

That we do good because we do good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, anyway, yeah, not for the recognition, that's right. Yeah For the recognition For the sake of being good To.

Speaker 2:

God's glory and fame.

Speaker 1:

That's so good. Yeah, oh, I like that there's a, there's a.

Speaker 2:

I'm not going to say her name, but this one minister says man, you know your faith is real. When you start doing this stuff you know no one can see. Yeah, that's how, how you, when you start doing stuff that you know for a fact, no one will see, that. Yep, and she used the example of just watch. When you're at the grocery store and you're having to pull the buggy back, you know well, common decency says put it back in the little buggy receptacle there where you're supposed to put it, and not just in front of your car. Um, you see a piece of trash on the street. Um, do you pick it up, you know. And so like, don't hear me saying y'all got to pick up trash or whatever. Hear me saying man, I know there's work that the spirit of God is doing in my heart when I am apt to go after the things that I know no one can see. So I'll close with this. This is not a brag, but it is actually a little scary and a little convicting for me.

Speaker 2:

So Josh Johnson's our men's pastor and he had to do this funeral a couple of weeks ago. Well, he's doing this funeral and finds out that one of the family members lives in my neighborhood. So she introduces herself to him and says, hey, my name is so-and-so, I live a block away from Pastor Ricky. He says really, okay, that's great, I got to tell him. He's like yep, she said I see him walking in our neighborhood and he'll just be holding his hands up praising the Lord. And I walked very early and I was just thinking, whoa, you know like and low-key. I was like thank God I wasn't doing something else.

Speaker 2:

You know what I but this is the point I want to make. There's an all seeing eye. Yeah, you know what I mean. That's seeing those little things, and that's the opportunity that we have is to please him. It's all about what he sees.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. Oh, that's so good, oh, I love that. Well, so works do not. We cannot. We can obviously say they do not secure our salvation, they don't somehow gain us favor with God, and they don't earn us comfort, success or elevated position or status. That's not the intent. Works do, though, however, provide a tangible witness of the gospel to the world, and they can indicate that faith is at work in the life of a believer, and Jesus had a few things to say about faith without works, didn't he he?

Speaker 2:

did man Several several, several examples in illustration of scripture the.

Speaker 2:

Good Samaritan. Luke 10, loving your neighbor right, it's more than word. The rich, young ruler, matthew 19. That guy had works, but not enough faith to follow in Jesus, which is really what it was about, when you think about Jesus, his final words to his disciples he didn't just call them to believe, he also called them to go and make disciples. John 13,. The world will know we are Christians by our love. And Luke six why do you call me Lord, lord and not do what I say? So there is this, this connection, that faith is authenticated right when I, when I start to live out what Christ has done to me. And there are some who are listening, for whom this idea of man, it doesn't have anything to do about works.

Speaker 2:

It's some who are listening, for whom this idea man it doesn't have anything to do about works is still a mental struggle. It's an intellectual struggle, yeah, and that's fair, and I think you get to toe that and I think with human hearts we'll tow that till he comes to get us on some level yeah, here's, here's, uh, another logical pushback that I want to put on you. If you want to lean into a works-based salvation, here's the here's the gamble you take if my works get me in, it means my works can get me out yeah, that's good and if my works get me in, it means my lack of works can get me out, and so you can run on that slippery slope.

Speaker 2:

But once you go down that slippery slope you realize that now, oh, that means salvation actually has nothing to do with God and everything to do with me. And I don't know about y'all, but if I got chips, I'm putting them all on God's side and I will say Lord, please don't look at my works. It's a biblical slippery slope, but it's a literal, in real life slippery slope for us. If that becomes the equation, yeah, if they're getting me in or keeping me out.

Speaker 1:

There's a major conundrum there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm going to go with grace on that one. Amen, brother, every time.

Speaker 1:

Well, and you said it before all this, technically we are saved by works, and I love this Christ works, that's right. And so Christ did the works that we could not do on our behalf, so that we might be made right with God. So it was workspace salvation, but Christ works alone.

Speaker 2:

Amen, Amen. Christ Jesus was non-transactional. God was non-transactional with us and entirely transactional with. Jesus.

Speaker 1:

Yep, ooh, ooh, yeah. So what now? How do we practically live this out in our lives?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you know. I think we need to say this to this culture Don't just talk about it, be about it. You know, be doers of the word. Scripture says, not hearers, only deceiving yourselves. Um, and a doer is somebody who just acts. It's a doer who acts as someone who is truly impacted by what they've seen and heard. And don't hear me saying, if you don't, if you aren't in a season where you're doing works, that you're not saved. I'm not saying that at all. I am saying that, man, you're going to meet God just before he walks you into heaven, and the only moment that is sad in heaven is the that when we of the things we left off the field that we could have got done for his glory. And so I just want to encourage us that if you're, as a season of sitting or being a little lazy or just kind of behind the curve on the things that God's called you to do, just don't talk about it, just go and be about it?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. Just don't talk about it, just go and be about it. Yeah, absolutely. And like you said, I mean circling back around. Even to the thief on the cross. Like you know, his, his, his, he actually did have works when he was up on that, you know, on the cross, and his works were evidence. There's some sort of evidence in your life that there's that something is happening and that when, when he spoke out and said to the, the uh, to the other thief, um you know, like you know uh, what was it Gosh?

Speaker 1:

where am I going with that?

Speaker 2:

Um, he was, uh, when, when he chastised, when he chastised the other guy yeah, there was works happening there, it was just short-lived right is what I was trying to get to. That's good, that's a good word.

Speaker 1:

Basically so most of us get the privilege of living out our lives through sanctification. So there's a little bit more to that process. And so I just think that's something we're circling back around on, because most people will say, well, that's all that it was, and you're like, well, no, there was repentance. That's good. There was works, there was evidence of all kinds of things happening with the thief there.

Speaker 2:

That's good, I like that. That's powerful. Yeah, that's strong.

Speaker 1:

And then your faith should spur you on to love and good deeds, hebrews 10.24. Galatians 5.6 tells us faith expressing itself through love. And then of course, we land in 1 Corinthians 13. If you have not love, you gain nothing, and so those things, to some degree, should be evident in our life.

Speaker 1:

And then we can see that play out ultimately right With the fruits of the spirit. Exactly right Are they apparent in my life? You know, fruit is evidence of life, we know that. And so love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control, yeah, and.

Speaker 2:

I feel like, if this is a hard conversation for you and I speak to those who would recognize that they are saved, that they are followers of Jesus and if this conversation of works causes disdain for you, it may be signaling to you that you need to do some deeper work. Allow the spirit to get more real estate in your heart. Yeah Right, if your spirit is more of that of a curmudgeon and your hands are folded, saying is all that works, works, works. Don't you talk about works? Well, one. We've completely sided with the fact that you're only saved by grace, through faith in Christ alone, and it's not about works. The only point we've made is the scriptural point that it seems to be that the scriptures concertedly agreed that my faith is authenticated by living out of the gospel with tangible, and be careful is what I would say to you yeah, that's a good word.

Speaker 2:

And allow the Holy Spirit to do some more work in your heart, because ours is a Savior who said to take care of the poor and called us to charity and to justice, who showed himself a servant to the very end. And I don't think that means to go and do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do you know, and all those things. I think it does mean the question that if that is not rhythmic, evident, a desirable part of your life, don't hear me say you're not saved, but do you hear me say better question it, better question yeah, yeah. Yeah, take some inventory, that's exactly right. Well, better say it takes some inventory.

Speaker 1:

Well, and you know I like that, because no matter where you are, no matter where you're at on your faith journey, God never, he didn't, he doesn't leave you where you are. He wants to bring you into deeper relationship with him, and so that is most often made evident through the thing that he allows us to participate and engage in Right. And so there's always some work for us to do.

Speaker 2:

There's more work.

Speaker 1:

We shouldn't be like we talk about. You know, not written.

Speaker 2:

No retirement and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

We always something for us to be doing for the kingdom Right. So well as always. We hope that our conversations here are engaging, but we want to be sure to provide helpful resources as well. What are some things we'd like to point people to?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, some great books. Great books Sam Mulberry, james for you, kind of showing you how real faith looks in real life. The Great One, aw Tozer, the Pursuit of Christian Maturity and then RC Spr, is faith. It's a great book. Yeah, he's amazing. He's probably top 10. I would put that kind of kind of articulating okay, this is, this is the gospel and this is grace and this is faith. So rc is great yeah, love him.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's good and, as always, guys, we want your questions, comments and feedback here. So if you you know you want to know more about this or you want more resources. Leave a comment on youtube and if you're listening, you can email us at the other six days at southwestchurchcom. That's the number six, and so, ricky. Any last comments or thoughts before we wrap this thing up? Live it out. Oh, I like that. Don't talk about it, be about it, live it out. Well, there you have it, guys. No-transcript.