The Other 6 Days

Gospel Hospitality | The Other 6 Days | Episode 66

• Southwest Church • Season 3 • Episode 66

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In this episode, we are joined by none other than Southwest Church's very own, Kenna McMillan! Kenna is an individual of extraordinary talent, serving & leading in some capacity in almost every area of the church! For the past few years, she has had the privilege to both care for & led the charge in hospitality for Southwest Church as director of our Guest Services team. Kenna is an energetic, high-capacity & compassionate leader with a heart to serve & desire to so people use their gifts and talents to further the gospel through the local church.

Information & Resources:

  • SCRIPTURE:
    • Hebrews 13:2, Leviticus 19:34, 1 Timothy 3:2, 1 Peter 3:15, Joshua 2, Luke 10, Romans 12:13, Galatians 5:22-23 
  • BOOKS:
    • Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara (https://a.co/d/0jeSmTO)
    • The Simplest Way to Change the World: Biblical Hospitality as a Way of Life / Written by Dustin Willis and Brandon Clements https://a.co/d/9Ze2q4y
    • The Power of Hospitality by Chuck & Kathie Crismier (https://store.iblp.org/the-power-of-hospitality.html)
    • The Gospel Comes with a House Key: Practicing Radically Ordinary Hospitality in Our Post-Christian World by Rosaria Butterfield 
    • https://a.co/d/4oIRKgf
    • The Art of Neighboring: Building Genuine Relationships Right Outside Your Door by Jay Pathak (Author), Dave Runyon (Author https://a.co/d/bQqlCJp
  • PODCASTS:

For more information or to join the conversation, head over to https://southwestchurch.com/theother6days or email us at theother6days@southwestchurch.com

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SPEAKER_00:

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Other Six Days Podcast, where we chat about life outside of Sundays and what it means to live from our gatherings and not just for them. In this episode, we're joined by none other than Southwest Church's very own Kenna McMillan. Kenna is an individual of extraordinary talent, serving and leading in some capacity in almost every area of the church. For the past few years, she's had the privilege to both care for and lead the charge in hospitality for Southwest Church as director of our guest services team. Kenna is energetic, high capacity, and a compassionate leader with a heart to serve and a desire to see people use their gifts and talents to further the gospel through the local church. I'm so excited for what she has to share with us today. Kenna, welcome.

SPEAKER_04:

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_00:

How'd you feel about that intro?

SPEAKER_04:

It was great. You gassed me up real good.

SPEAKER_00:

I did. I messed up a little bit.

SPEAKER_04:

I gassed you up too.

SPEAKER_00:

So we always try to welcome our guests on the podcast by starting with something a little bit fun. So let's kick it off with what I'm calling our hospitality hot seat icebreaker. So I'm gonna ask some questions and you give your best answers.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

You ready?

SPEAKER_04:

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_00:

Cool. So obvious first question introvert or extrovert?

SPEAKER_04:

Extrovert.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Never been an introvert a day in my life.

SPEAKER_00:

Wish you were an introvert? Nope. Okay, there you go. Uh, what's your hospitality superpower?

SPEAKER_04:

Ooh, um, I feel I'm very adaptable. So in any situation, I feel like I can kind of um figure out how I need to show up pretty well.

SPEAKER_00:

Nice. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. I like that. You can kind of flex.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I'm pretty good at flexing.

SPEAKER_00:

Man, uh, I'm like the king of awkward stories. So that's all I bring. Yeah, it's like because everything awkward happens to me. So like I'm like, ooh, awkward moment, awkward story.

SPEAKER_04:

I'll be there.

SPEAKER_00:

I got you. Um, we kind of play one up with the awkward story. Yeah, yeah, there we go. Um, what's your actually, so you asked me before the podcast. I'm not a superhero person, but like, so what is kryptonite? So I love that you didn't know.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, so CG had to explain what kryptonite is.

SPEAKER_00:

So what's your hospitality, kryptonite?

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I feel like I'm pretty confident, but I'm working on confidence in confrontation.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And so if there's confrontation on my team or confrontation with a guest, I'm working on showing up confidently in those spaces because I kind of shy away from confrontation. And so that's like kind of my kryptonite is like if something bad's and not if something bad is happening, happening necessarily with guests, but on my team if there's conflict or something. Yeah. Or if I have to address someone for maybe even not doing what they were supposed to do, I don't show up that confident in those spaces.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh wow. What do you what do you tend to do? Like what's your like shy away from them? Oh you giggle and then walk off.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm like, oh, don't do that.

SPEAKER_00:

Someone help. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I ask my lead of leads. I'm like, can you tell that person not to do that? Okay. Yeah. Yeah, like that. Delegate. That's nice. Which is important to tell me.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh man, that was better. I've I put uh I get when I'm hungry, I get hangry. So like I don't ever serve when I'm hungry. Like, if I'm like, oh, noon's coming and I'm hungry, I don't you don't want me to leave. Yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Like Hunter has like got me up. My husband has got me on this weird only eat dinner schedule. Like he only eats dinner. Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

You just snack or what?

SPEAKER_04:

No, he doesn't snack. Okay. So yesterday I got home and he was like, Are you gonna make dinner at 6 30? I'm starving. And I'm like, I had lunch.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And he's like, I haven't eaten. And I'm like, there's snacks. Sounds like you, bro. I'm like, you could have made dinner. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's interesting. So we're hungry a lot. Oh, there you go. Uh, it doesn't work for me. All right, let's do greeting styles. Uh uh connector, comforter, problem solver, or party starter.

SPEAKER_04:

Party starter.

SPEAKER_00:

I know.

SPEAKER_04:

I try to show up with as much joy as possible. Yeah, you're bringing the party situation. Yeah. I think it's because my mom's a party starter.

SPEAKER_00:

That's true. You you were raised that way. There you go. Like you're like, are we having a party?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh formal or casual greeting style?

SPEAKER_04:

Casual.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So like just what's up?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Most I'm I don't typically say like, welcome to Southwest.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I I yeah. Hi, I'm so glad you're going to be here. Oh, there you go. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

That's perfect.

SPEAKER_04:

Party. I like that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, party. Okay, yeah. I should have figured that out. Um, handshake, fist bump, high five, hug, or wave.

SPEAKER_04:

I love hugs.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, you do?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I'll do all of them, but I love hugs.

SPEAKER_00:

Hugs, yeah. Yeah. Just personal.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, I tried a high five or like fist bump, but my team, I hug every one of them when I see them.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you said your uh superpower is like feeling out, so you can kind of tell. Yeah. You can gauge it.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's good. Yeah, mine is definitely not a hug. Like I'm like maybe side hug. Like if like we know each other for 10 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

It has to be 10 years.

SPEAKER_00:

That's the 10-year like congratulations. You've known you for 10 years.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Only side hug.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, otherwise it's uh it's an awkward fist bump.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, the one that like you don't know if you should snap or like uh, you know, and everybody feels weird after that. Yeah. So then I tell a story.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um do you start with questions or stories?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh questions.

SPEAKER_00:

You do? Yeah. Like ask a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah. I try, I try to yeah, I try to force the other person to talk more than me. I really like to talk. So if I don't do that, I will talk the whole time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you're fine talking. Yeah. That's good. That actually that's helpful for me, like as an introvert. Yeah. I always want if you're I'm like, if you're good, then go for it.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I'll talk your ear off.

SPEAKER_00:

All right.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. For hours.

SPEAKER_00:

That's perfect. That's why you're here today. Yes. That's a four-hour podcast. Joe Rogan. Yes. You got nothing on this podcast.

SPEAKER_04:

Watch out.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, do you give directions using your hands or without your hands?

SPEAKER_04:

So, this is a funny uh thing I've brought into guest services is that we don't do directions. So, like, my slogan is we don't point people in the right direction, we walk them in the right direction. So good. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's awesome. Yeah. That was good.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I've like tried to you can ask my team. I'm like, do we point people? And they're like, no, we walk them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

That's so good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Cause I if I put this church is confusing. So if I tell you, like, go to that entrance, you're like, Yeah, what is that? Where is that? I don't know. I was lost already. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, yeah. Yes. I'm totally like a pointer. So that's so like I feel so guilty of that. I'm like, yeah, if you go around the corner to the right and I'm picturing it in my head, and they're like, Turn left four times, right two, you'll be at the bathroom. And they just got in their car and left. I'm like, oh whoops.

SPEAKER_04:

They're driving around the church. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you uh do you remember names, faces, or outfits?

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I have a terrible memory.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

And so I'm gonna expose myself, but I I my volunteers wearing name tags has been my lifesaver.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Which is so bad because I've been in the role for two and a half years now, so I should know all their names. Yeah. There's a lot of them. Um, I try to remember faces.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I take, I'll even take notes on my phone of like, okay, this volunteer wore a green shirt and you remember the green shirt, and their daughter does this, and like, so that next week I'm like, oh, you do this and your name is this.

SPEAKER_00:

You good to see you. Good to see you. I know. The but the name tags are very helpful. You're like, oh my gosh, Betty, like it's so good to have the little glance. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

I try to make it as quick as like what's over there.

SPEAKER_00:

As you're walking up, you see the name tag, and you're like, got it.

SPEAKER_04:

I do check in for a high school ministry on Wednesday nights, and every week I'm like, remind me of your last name. Okay, there's 12 Hernandezes. Uh I think you're Ava.

SPEAKER_00:

Or even and then sometimes the name tag has like it's uh Gianette or like it looks like Gianetti or something.

SPEAKER_04:

You're like, I don't know to pronounce this. Or sometimes I'll be like, How do you spell your name again? There you go. And that's like my hat. You're good. You're like a pro, so okay.

SPEAKER_00:

I have some tricks up my sleeve. I always try to remember names just because I know it's a huge value statement. Yeah, you know, like how it makes somebody feel when you genuinely remember their name. So I'll just practice names. Like I do it when I'm golfing, I'll just say their name over and over.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's that's my trick.

SPEAKER_00:

And then I'm like, dude, I'm like, Jim, great shot. And he's like, Oh my gosh, you've remembered my name. Like, I know how that feels.

SPEAKER_04:

So I'll be like, CJ, nice to meet you. CJ, tell me about your day. Yeah, like and I'll say your name like 12 times in our conversation so I can try and remember it. That's a good it's hard.

SPEAKER_00:

That's such a good practice, though. Yeah. Have you ever introduced someone using the wrong name?

SPEAKER_04:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

How'd that go? Awkward. Okay. That is for an awkward story.

SPEAKER_04:

Or sometimes I'll be like, Hi, it's so good to see you. This is um insert your name. Please insert your own name right now.

SPEAKER_03:

Help me help you.

SPEAKER_04:

Or if I know the other person's name, I start with that. Yeah. Like CJ, this meet my friend. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And then they'll they'll do the intro. Yeah, you kind of open it up.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, like somebody say their name. That's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I've done it many times, obviously. Um, ever waved when the person was waving at someone behind you? Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Or I just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, no. You're good with that though. You're like, ah, my bad.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Or I'll just embrace it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Like, oh, thanks for saying hi. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And you have to do it. Hello to you too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll talk to you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll hug strangers.

SPEAKER_00:

I would melt and be like, I'm like, you gotta get out of here. This is awkward. Uh, what's your favorite thing about welcoming people?

SPEAKER_04:

If it's someone who is newer to the church, but I know that they had come the week before, I love when I can say like, welcome back, or it's so good to see you again, and their face light up of like, oh my gosh, you remembered I was that's so cool. So I try, I try to even instill that in the team of like, if you recognize someone, say welcome back or good to see you again, just so they know that they're recognized. And so I love, or I love complimenting people, throwing that in there, like, I love your shirt, and you'll just see their frown flip upside down.

SPEAKER_00:

I told you this was a good shirt.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, or your shoes, or your outfit, or I love your hair. I try to throw a compliment in every time. Yeah, I just know it feels good to be complimented.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh man, that's such a good practice. Gosh, I love that. I love the welcome back because I do that for church online and I didn't realize how valuable that was, but I'm like, hey, so good to see you again here online, you know. And they're like, Oh, you remember me. Like, you know, I'm like, oh, you know, John from Anaheim or something like that, you know. So that's cool. Yeah. Um, what is the hardest thing about hospitality?

SPEAKER_04:

Everyone has a preference. And so on a Sunday, if we have 800 people in the auditorium, it's how do I take 800 people's preferences and try to make everyone comfortable and happy? And and you can't, yeah, but it you feel the weight of that of like, man, the music is loud, which is it's good for some people, but some people hate it, but some people love it, and you you can't like and then if we turn it down, those people aren't happy anymore, or you lose energy. The lights are too bright. Some people love it, some people hate. Like, it's really hard to make everyone happy, yeah. Which is it's sad.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and it's super subjective and really, really broad. So, oh, I didn't honestly. I mean, you know it, but you don't really think about it. You that's your life every weekend.

SPEAKER_04:

It's my life every weekend.

SPEAKER_00:

Man, oh that's great. That's I love that for you.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and and I try it, and then like how do you take that? Like when someone approaches you and is like, it's too loud, it's like, okay, I hear your concern, but you're one out of eight hundred, so yeah, I don't know how accommodating I can be. And then I offer earplugs, and then they're offended that they need earplugs. And so it's just like that weight, you just feel it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you and then you value it, but it's also not personal, and then you're an ambassador and representative for the church, so like all the things. Yeah, that's a lot, that's pretty heavy weight. Like sorry, it can be.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It takes best for people to do that. So I'm like, oh, I can't do it. I feel so bad. I can't, I can't do it for everyone.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm like, sorry, I'll I'll write it down and tell them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04:

That's all I can do. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love your hands. You sure it's really pretty? Yeah, exactly. They're like, all right, that's better. Yeah. Um, hospitality. Is it a gift, a skill, a calling, or all of the above?

SPEAKER_04:

A gift, a skill, a calling, or all above. I think that some people have the innate ability to be hospitable. And I think some people have to learn it. And I think the people that learn it probably won't ever be as good as the people who are just naturally good at it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

But I think it can be learned.

SPEAKER_00:

It can be learned. So everyone can do it at some point. Yeah. But there's some people who are just yeah, I think it's like a spectrum.

SPEAKER_04:

You have your people who are just naturally wonderful. It doesn't have to be trained.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And and they can just kind of show up in whatever space and be hospitable. And then you have the people who like they have to work for it. They have to work for. They have to try. Yeah. And it can be exhausting for those people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like I that's me. You're you're reading.

SPEAKER_04:

Which I do think it the spectrum goes with introvert, extrovert. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Like what what fills you up. Yeah, because you step into it fully present and aware, right? And we'll talk more about that. But yeah, that's so good. Uh, what's the best area to serve in the church?

SPEAKER_04:

Ooh, guest services. My team. There it is. Yeah. I uh I think I think every role is so important. I think if I wasn't on staff in it, I would volunteer in the host position, which are our are ushers essentially.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

They help people find seats, they collect the offering. Those people, they I try to keep them in the same section every week. So you start to really be people have chairs. I don't know if you know this. I didn't know. They bought parking spots and chairs. They come to the same seat every single Sunday. My dad is one of them. Yeah. They same exact seat every Sunday. Wow. And so my hosts really get to know the people in their section. And it's like, that's their section. And so I think that that role, you start to become family with like that little mini part of the game.

SPEAKER_00:

Same seat for you, huh? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't need to show you. It's there. Yeah, it's true. And if someone else is there, let's try something new this week.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And they're like, what?

SPEAKER_00:

New? No. That's funny. Oh man, I love it. Um, so Kenna, let's do a little background, um, kind of catch people up on who is Kenna McMillan.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh tell us who you are, how you ended up, where you're at now, you know, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So I am born and raised in the Cotella Valley and born and raised at Southwest. So my parents have been coming here since before I was a thing. And so this is all I've ever known is Southwest. And so I have a deep love for this church. Just I got saved here, I got baptized here, I felt called to ministry here. I met my husband here. Yeah. My my siblings, like the same thing with them. My older brother, same thing. And so this is just like who the Dawson, my maiden name, like the Dawson family is a Southwest people.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I went to Palme Deser High School just down the street. Um, I started serving, oh gosh, in like third grade.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh man, you would serve forever.

SPEAKER_04:

A whole life. Yeah, a whole life. I I led my first small group when I was a fresh or sophomore in high school. I led an eighth grade group of girls, and so I just I just love who we are. Um, it's been fun to watch Southwest change in the different seasons. Um, pre-Ricky, post-Ricky, or with Ricky, not post with Ricky.

SPEAKER_02:

He's still here. Pre and present, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, pre- and present. Um and then I met my husband here, and so now he's on staff, and so that's been really fun of like um him pursuing me and then us dating here, and then us getting we got married here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so now it's just like it's just been so fun.

SPEAKER_00:

That's cool. This is like home to you for sure. And does that play into like a little bit of the hospitality thing, you think? Like just because of yeah, you're growing up here?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I think I think the deep love I have for it, I want everyone to feel that same love and and not and it not take as long as it did for me to like be like it doesn't need to take someone their whole life. It can be a couple experiences for them to feel that same love. And so just like serving out of this like deep love for the Lord and our church.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah. So you have like major there's like ownership too, and that's it. Like, yeah, this is my home, yeah. Family.

SPEAKER_04:

And for a while, spent more time here than my home. Yeah, like totally, yeah. And still, yes, actually, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, so a little bit too. I know that you are you always been involved in like customer service roles too. Like you, so tell me a little bit about coffee stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So my first job was at a coffee shop. Yeah, and then I quickly got hired on here to run our cafe for two years. Yeah, that okay, yeah. And so just customer service front jobs. So coffee shop, the second someone walks in, like, hi, welcome. We're so glad you you're here, and then ushering through that whole experience at the coffee shop with hospitality. Yeah. And similar to how we have people who have their same seats, you have the same customers. And so you get to know their names, you get to know about their families, you get to hear their stories. They come in on bad days, good days. And so it just is everything I've done in my life has been hospitality.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, and I just love it.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so cool. Yeah, I didn't I was thinking like when you said when I knew that you worked at coffee shop and I didn't find that out until like way later. Oh, yeah, you worked there forever at multiple coffee shops. And then I was like, oh, that fits like perfect for like the hospitality. Because I mean, yeah, you have to deal, I don't think, good days, bad days, awkward moments, all that stuff. Like you learn a lot of kind of with mean customers.

SPEAKER_04:

Like that was a great place for me to learn like disarming people, yes, customers coming in just so angry from the second they walk in the door, or a customer not liking their drink, or some a bad part of their experience having to help and coach them or having to help them and redirect how they're feeling. Because we want them to come back the same, we want them to come back to church. Yeah, and then they they leave reviews, which they leave reviews here, but at coffee shops they leave honest reviews. And so I'm like, okay, we need five stars, guys, like top-tier hospitality so we can get those stars.

SPEAKER_00:

Good coffee, good hospitality. Yes, that's it.

SPEAKER_04:

Those are what you need to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow, that was good. Well, good training then.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, so as we get into the topic of hospitality and here heard a little bit about your um, like your background and stuff, what are some of the ways that you define hospitality? Because we're using that word, and so I think like, you know, why instead of like customer service or something?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Um I just like quickly wrote down if I could sum up hospitality in a sentence, I put that it's hospitality is the act of creating an environment where no matter who you are or what you show up with, you feel seen, welcome, and connected.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I love the connected part because a lot of times people are like, well, they're seen and they're welcomed, but in my head, that's half of hospitality. Yeah. I want them to feel connected because I think connected is where people return. Maybe they feel seen and maybe they feel welcomed walking in the door, but the second they're connected, I feel like their odds of returning are doubled just because they have that connection.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. Oh no, that's so good. I love that. Yeah, because when I was thinking about it too, I was thinking like one of them's like tasks, it's almost like uh like this whole idea of transactional, you know, like it it's a reciprocated thing for an exchange. It's almost like goods and services, you know, uh translated into like assistance and tasks. And so, but the idea of hospitality is more of an emotional connection, like you're saying.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, and I feel like anytime you have to go to a customer service desk, it's because something's wrong. Exactly. Yeah, or you have a bad experience. Or I'm thinking like at an airport, if you have to go to customer services, typically something's wrong and you need to go there. I feel like hospitality, I want you to come to me if something's good or bad. Like come celebrate with me and come tell me where things need to be corrected. And so I feel like that's also a delineation is like customer service, you're right, is so transactional and very you need to, you need to come because something's wrong. Yeah. And I don't want hospitality to feel that way.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's like, and hospitality has an opportunity to be more transformational, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_00:

Because like if you're connecting with people, like you're getting involved at a deeper level, and then eventually they're emotionally connected. Yeah. And they're gonna probably like start to develop relationships and friendships to break down barriers, all that stuff. Yeah, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, man, that's awesome. And then uh too, we've said this all the time, like it's more like a ministry of presence, right? Like showing up for people, being present. Like how would like what's something you'd say about like just being present in the conversation?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I feel like a lot of times people are like, well, I'm not gifted like how you are, or I'm not very hospitable. And this is where I I feel like people who aren't innately hospitable, presence is what people want. People want you to show up and just be there with them. And so even on our team, like if someone is having surgery or someone is in the hospital or something, and and I may feel like I don't know how to show up for them, I don't know how to pray for them, I don't know what words they need. Just me showing up is hospitable, and that's hospitality. And so ministry presence is just huge. A friend called me yesterday, her grandpa passed away, and and I just sat there and listened to her. And at the end, she was like, Thank you so much. This was great. And I was like, I listened. That's what you wanted for me to listen. You just wanted my presence. All right, cool. That was easy. Like we said, yes, I showed up well. Um, and so even in my small groups I lead, I just try to teach them like just the way we show up for people is so important. And and that is hospitality and gospel hospitality.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, because yeah, because like uh our our time is valuable. And so when you offer that to people, yeah, like you're showing value in that. That's huge. Because sometimes too, like when we're dismissive, like you know you're like, oh, you you don't want to be around me. So like that's obvious obviously like immediately off-putting. Yeah. I would assume. And so just to be like, hey, tell me more. How can I show up? And then to be invested, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And can then connect.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Man, that's so good. I love it. I'm coming up with all kinds of different ideas on how I can get better at this. I love it. So um obviously hospitality is important to you, but why you said it a little bit about like maybe go into more why it has become that way for you. Was it a person or an experience?

SPEAKER_04:

Ooh, it was a person. Um so Chris Wong is like the queen of hospitality. And she did my job, I don't know, for forever.

SPEAKER_00:

For a long time, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

For a very long time. And so I have pictures of like 13-year-old me serving on her team with my name tag and greeting. And I would bring my friend Mandy with me, and we would stand on the corner, and as cars welcomed in, we'd have like those signs. And so I just have grown up with her instilling the values of hospitality into me. And she's a pro. She's like the greatest hospitality person. And so she actually came in to train me for my job. Um, and so the first two weeks she did it with me. And I just feel like I just wanted to be Chris Wong. And so, even still, when situations happen, I'm like, hey, how would Chrissy react right now? Yeah. I need the bracelet. What would Chrissy do?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, yeah. And so I just, it was definitely her who kind of instilled how important hospitality is at a church. And then I even received some of the systems that she had put into place. I still do to this day. Yeah. Um, just because they worked. And if it's not broke, don't fix it. And she just did an excellent job with that. And she is probably one of the most joyful people.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

She's always happy, she's always smiling. She shows up in every situation with joy, even if they're bad situations. And so I just tried to instill a lot of her values into how I show up on Sundays. Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so that says a lot about like her leadership and style. And like, and then also too, like her joy is contagious. And she has instilled that in like a lot of people. Totally. A lot of people would say, like, Chrissy Wong, like I know that too, for her guest, like for guest services, hospitality, all that stuff. Like she has been doing it for a long time.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, my team still talks about her. I'm like, I know, guys, I'm not Chris Wong.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey, you're carrying the torch.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I'm mini Chris. And you do a phenomenal job. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, so and what's a specific moment then that marked you forever? Do you have like one like that maybe you're like, oh my gosh, yeah, I remember this time when we were doing the signs on the corner, or you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Um I think for me, something that Chris Wong really marked me with is just seeing a 13-year-old with the heart to serve and allowing me to. Oh, allowing. And so I think she gave me a really safe space, yeah, despite my age and and showed me how important I was in that world. And so I just think, and even now I have 13-year-olds. I invite my freshman girls to come serve all the time because I think it's such a great place to show people like, hey, it doesn't you don't have to be a certain age to serve. Um, and hospitality, again, like as long as I kind of train them and show them what they're doing, it's a place that they can show up well no matter what their age is. And so I I was telling my my mom the other day, we had a 14-year-old this past Sunday serve on my team and an 87-year-old.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04:

And so I'm just like the spectrum that you can show up and serve in guest services is so cool. And so Chris One just gave me a space to show up.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I felt seen and welcomed by her. And so that got me coming back. And then Disneyland, which this sounds silly.

SPEAKER_02:

I love it, guys. I love Disneyland.

SPEAKER_04:

I love it. And it's how I train my team is like the second you pull onto their campus, music is playing, someone said hello to you. The you pay for parking, which is annoying to pay for parking, but they're like the happiest parking people. So you like want to pay them the$40 because you're so happy. That's gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

It's fun.

SPEAKER_04:

And then every stop along the way, someone's there to greet you and welcome you, and just the joy you feel there. Yeah, like if you can feel that much joy at a secular place for kids, pretty much as an adult, like how can we make church feel like Disneyland?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so I just am like marked by how much joy I have at Disneyland. And I want people to feel that joy here.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a pretty good goal. Yeah. And Disney spent, I mean, they've done all the RD. Yeah. So they've spent some money. Their budget's a lot bigger.

SPEAKER_04:

They have roller coasters with help and churros.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. You're like, ooh, churros, we gotta do.

SPEAKER_04:

We need a churro church every weekend.

SPEAKER_00:

So we have a churro cart and popcorn, you know where it came from. So yeah. So, well, we see this idea idea of hospitality all throughout scripture, of course, both both Old and New Testament. So, what are some examples of gospel hospitality that might stand out to you? Like anyone's specific? I know there's a bunch, but there are a ton.

SPEAKER_04:

And I think the one that I love the most probably is the Mary and Martha story um of just the serve, serve, serve. I I always see myself as Martha in that, which I know she's not who you want to be in that story. Like Mary, the one yeah, it's definitely a lesson. Um, but I just the way that she is like hustling to set up for Jesus, so I find myself doing that often on Sundays. And that's possible. Yeah, right. I want the congregation. Jesus deserves our excellence. And so on Sundays, how can I show up the best of my ability? Because these people deserve a safe place where they can feel seen, welcomed, and connected. Um, and so I do I read that story often to one, remind myself to Jesus is so concerned about where Martha is in that, like come sit at his feet is the desire that he had. Yeah. But I do think that there is something honorable about the way that Martha wants Jesus to be surrounded by excellent in her home. And so I I love that story a lot. Um I read it often, one, to remind myself to slow down, but two, then I think her I don't think her heart is all the way wrong. I think that she just um she was striving too hard in that moment. Like, yeah. So I think that the heart to show up excellent for Jesus isn't wrong, but I think once Jesus is in the room, it's like, hey, sit and be present.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking more like timing, probably. Like there's a time to prepare and set up and do all of that. Yeah. But then to be present in the moment instead of being distracted by the one thing that you like that matters most. It's like keeping the main thing the main thing. Totally. So for you, even in that, would be to be present for the people rather than practicing like uh setting up and running around. Cause if we end up not showing up for the people that we're meant to serve, like I fall a prey to this all the time is that I'm like in preparation, and that's why I love being prepared. Yeah. Is because I can actually feel like I can show up with excellence in the moment because now I'm available to be present.

SPEAKER_04:

Right. And so I sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't know.

SPEAKER_04:

That's I did a a feedback form. I gave my guest services a feedback form and was like, give me any and all feedback. It can be towards me, it can be towards the church, and it it was anonymous. So I just like gave them a safe space. That's so good. And someone on there put, you need to slow down. And I remember seeing it and thinking, like, if my team feels that way, how much more does the congregation feel that way?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And then thinking same thing, like, okay, then I'm obviously not prepared enough if I'm having to be this busy on a Sunday. Yeah. And so I forced myself on Sundays. I hug every one of my team members when they're in their places.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so that is a moment where I like walk and I slow down and I can stop at each one. I hug them. How are you? How are you today?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, what's going on? I've been praying about this for you. How's that going? So and so is sick. How's that? Yeah. And so it forces me to slow down and be present with each one of them, which is so hard for me. That's probably one of my kryptonites too. Is I am doing a million things all the time, which then it doesn't allow me to be present the way that I think God has called me to be present in that. And so that's why I read Mary and Martha so often. Yeah, to remind you, you need to be Mary McKenzie, not Martha. Like slow down, sit down. That's so good.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's so helpful. I love that.

SPEAKER_04:

It's hard.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it is hard.

SPEAKER_04:

It's hard.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I feel I feel you on that one too. And I think like a lot of people will resonate with that. You're everybody's guilty of just moving too quickly and then being like, oh, I missed out on the moments. And like, you know, and that's what Jesus like all throughout scripture. We see Jesus just he stops. I mean, you know, he moves slow.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, dude, he was, yeah, he was moving very slow. He was always coming, he was either coming from a party or always to a party.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, and I love even, yes, exactly. And I love even um, I'm having a brain fart right now, but when he goes and heals the daughter, yeah, or was it Lazarus? It was Lazarus, and he had already died.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And I think for me, it's like I I constantly am reminding myself that it's not my timeline, it's God's timeline. Yeah. And in the same way that he moved slow in those days, but then still performed the miracle. I remind myself on Sundays like that that task needs to be done, but the people are more important than that task. So move slow, connect and be present with your people, and the task can be done later and it will still get done. Yeah. In the same way that Jesus still did the miracle he was gonna perform, but he just went slow to get to it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, and I think the stories on the way are important, impactful. And if you would have rushed, those we would have missed that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_04:

And so I think that's so true. Is I'll get home sometimes and be like, man, you that person was trying to talk to you, and you just ran by them and you missed that. Yeah. And what you did was not even that important. Like it could have still gotten done later.

SPEAKER_00:

And so it was uh it was important. It was just not of the most important.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, the presence was way my presence was way more important than the task.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and I found too, even in reading that same story, like and and in the other stories throughout scriptures, that many of the, you know, like the so the woman with the issue of blood or you know, and the leper, and uh most of the stuff we think that Jesus was going, like we're like, oh, he's headed towards a miracle and then headed to another miracle. The miracle was him being present in that moment. So he's like, the disciples are like, No, we need to go over here and do this. And he's like, No, I'm going to stop to heal this woman of her issue of blood.

SPEAKER_04:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

And like who touched who, you know, where did my power go out from me?

SPEAKER_04:

Like it's and he could have just kept going. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

He's like, No, I got other things to do, but he's like, No, this was the this moment was the miracle. Yeah, it's okay. And so, yeah, reminding us to be present. Yeah, so good. Um, man. Uh mine is uh I get I often reminded of the prodigal son story. And I always think about that one. Like you were talking about the joy.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so I think like Luke 15, uh, that celebration, uh, when the prodigal son returns and the dad comes running out and embraces him, and then he says, you know, uh, you know, bring the fat and calf and you know, all the things, and he sell he ends up his celebration results in hospitality to others, so he invites others and in order to invite them into celebration. And so I was like, man, that one to me is like always like really like been profound because he's celebrating all that God has done in his life. And so all of a sudden for me it becomes overflow. So my hospitality actually is what is a result of the joy of it that I have in the Lord.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and then just how do I make everyone who's walking back into church for the first time in a long time feel like the prodigal son? And so I think that's why I try to instill excellence into my volunteers too. Yeah, is you don't know this could be someone's first time in church in 15 years. And so how do we make them feel welcomed home and not like scared to walk into a new situation? And so that's a great story.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a great story. Like, so shouldn't we be the most like outside of Disneyland? Shouldn't we be the most joyful place in the world? Yep, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04:

And I tell my team often, um, when I do their scheduling, I tell them if you aren't gonna show up a hundred percent, just decline the plan.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, take the day off. If you need a mental health, take it because your bad day is going to cause so many other people to have bad days. Because again, there's 800 people walking in. So if you're a greeter at a door and 350 people walk through your door and you can't smile at them, yeah, now they're all walking in frowning too. Yeah. So everyone else's job becomes 10 times harder because you couldn't show up 100%, which is fine. Yeah, it's gonna happen. Everyone has their days, but just decline the plan. Yeah. Like stay home.

SPEAKER_00:

That's such a good word.

SPEAKER_04:

Or you can come to church and just be a congregation member. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but when you show up that way, I didn't realize that yeah, yeah, you have the potentially on the hospitality team. If you're not in a good place, you actually can transform lives in the wrong direction.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Seriously. Like it's transformational, but not God saves people, but I tell people we make or break the experience that causes someone to get saved a lot of the time. So if they're walking into church sad and we can turn them joyful by the time that they sit in their seat, just the likelihood of if they're not saved getting saved is goes up so much. And if they come in joyful and we change that to sad or mad or angry or upset, now all they're thinking about is that experience and they're missing the message.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You and you guys prep like uh for first impressions, you guys are kind of prepping the soil um for you know, gospel. So well, what's it so what's at stake if we get this wrong? Like when we don't do we talked a little bit about it, but when we don't do this well, what happens?

SPEAKER_04:

Ooh, I think yeah. All the everything. Everything goes wrong. It's not good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um like anything specific, like you know, we're like we offend rather than attract, but like what are what's like some other things like that we what the joy piece maybe?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I I just never want my team to be the reason that someone feels church hurt.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so I never church is so important and and it is a place where you really can show up in whatever season, in whatever stage, however you are, show up. We want you here.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, and I never want to be, I never want our team to be the reason that someone walks away and is like, oh, I'm never going back to church because that church hurt me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, and so I think that that's huge. I think that p so many people have been hurt by a church.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so I just, yeah, I just think that we can't that can't happen. It can't happen. Um, and I think that hospitality is one way that we can kind of help change that. And so when you that's like I I this is might sound crazy, but the people that walk in looking sad or upset or angry, like those are the people I want to I want to show up my best for, yeah. Which sounds normal, but I'm like over and above on those people. If you're sad and crying, I'm gonna sit with you and I wanna talk to you and I wanna know what's wrong, or I'm gonna take you to the prayer tables or the next step tables. Those are that's why we do our job. The people who are naturally joyful, we just get to be a another high five for them. And they should all come serve on my team. I'm like, as we yes, come. Because we are showing up for the people who have been church, and we're showing up for the people who are showing up with their bondage and with their chains on, and those are the people that are at risk. Like that, that's why hospitality exists in my head.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04:

The people who have joy, they're they're good. I'm not gonna take their joy away. Like they're gonna just add to my joy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you're like, hey, bring the joy. Like we need that here.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it's the people who are walking in with the shame and the sadness and the bitterness and the anger. Like, those are the people that are at risk if we don't show up well hospitality-wise.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's so good. Well, so what happens when we get this right? Like, what are the great things that like only hospitality can do or hospitality does?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, yeah. We just win in every realm, I feel like that's where I feel like hospitality is step one to discipleship because it's that connected piece of like, why would you want to join a small group if you don't even feel welcomed on a Sunday? Or why would you want to continue to um invest in a church or get connected in a church if you don't even feel that in a big space on a Sunday? And so I think first step of discipleship is or getting someone plugged into our pathway of discipleship is a great Sunday experience. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, because the like uh who comes in and says, like, you know what? These people are awful. I want to do life with them.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. I want to, I want to invest more than more time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. You're like, no, these are people I want to do life with.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. We say we love discipleship. And I think step one of that is hospitality. Oh man, that's so good. I think it shows if you're being discipled well and if you're discipling others well, if you can, if you can show up well in a hospitality space, is like that's that's me one, discipling a team to show up well in that, but then it's inviting people in and it's training people up. And so I just, yeah, I think step one of discipleship is hospitality.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so good. And I love too like your what you put into practice actually has like practical roots in that. Yeah. Where you tell people, hey, if you're having one of those days, because nobody's perfect, you're like, just stay home. Yeah. Because you're like, this is so valuable to a gospel exchange and to showing up like potentially evangelism, discipleship, all the things. You're like, do not let like you're allowed to have a bad day, but don't let it get in the way. Don't let it become a stumbling block to the gospel.

SPEAKER_04:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

Dude, that's so good.

SPEAKER_04:

And I t we try to I try to remove every barrier for someone to get into a church. And so we're working on a parking lot team right now, because that can be a barrier. If you can't find a parking spot, you're gonna go home.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so they can watch church online though. Yeah. There's no excuse. Yeah. But I'm like every barrier, the doors in the lobby, um, when it's hot or when it's cold, sometimes people will close them. And I like people have seen me get upset over it. Like, why are these doors closed? Even the doors being opened is welcoming. So I want every barrier to be out of someone's way when they come into church. And and us being upset is a barrier, I think. Or like me not smiling at a door, like you're like, okay, this is weird. Like, does this church like me? Do they want me here? Yeah. And that's a barrier. And now those that person's thinking it's them that's doing something wrong. And I just want, I don't want that for them.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that's so good. Because people, I don't think everybody catches that. Like, as that person comes in, that initial experience sets the stage for what happens. So, like when you all of a sudden exchanging, like, you know, you're hearing these gospel, this worship songs and this gospel message and all of that, and you're still thinking about your experience from the parking lot. Like, if you can get that all of the way and you're already set up with a smile, yeah, you're more ready to receive, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's our hope for the community and all that stuff. So yeah, I think it's one of the most important things that we do, if not the most important thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I agree.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so good. I agree. I'm glad you agree. Yeah. Because you that's what you try to do. Yeah, and you do it well. Imagine if I did agree. Yeah. You're like, actually, it's not. Yeah. Um, well, as always, we hope that our conversations are engaging and helpful to our people. Um, any books, podcasts, or other resources that you think might people might find helpful.

SPEAKER_04:

I love unreasonable hospitality. Okay. I love unreasonable hospitality. Um, it's just yeah, it's just an iconic book if you're in this world. And so it's great. He's a pro.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well Guadera.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, he yeah. And just like all of his businesses and just and how he talks about it. And then I really do. This sounds funny. I go to Disneyland to like turn off my brain, but I get so excited to come home and even they have a trash can like every 20 feet. I'm like, okay, do we have a trash can every 20 feet for guests? Like, yeah, they have like and so I've read a lot of websites about how Disneyland has their stuff set up.

SPEAKER_02:

Got it.

SPEAKER_04:

Because I think that that's huge too. And so this go to Disneyland if you want to practice hospitality or learn hospitality. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And then come back and translate it into the Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

But unreasonable hospitality is a great, it's a great resource. It's a good resource, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we've got a bunch. We'll list a bunch inside of the uh show notes for you guys. Um, there's a few others, the power of hospitality, um, a few podcasts as well. Uh, the Gospel Coalition actually has some really good like blogs. And then there's a podcast that I think uh Melissa and uh Kruger and Jackie Hill Perry do that talks about like hospitality in different contexts, super good. So we just encourage you guys to check those out. Um any final thoughts, encouragements, or comments for our listeners?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, come serve on my team.

SPEAKER_00:

There's the blog.

SPEAKER_04:

I really I I try to be always always be recruiting. Hunter always says, like ABR, always be recruiting. Yes, I got this. Um, I think it's the easiest place to serve. Yeah, it's the most important thing that we do here, but I think it's the easiest place to serve because you need no background doing it. Um, we'll train you in how to do it and how we expect you to show up, but smile and wave. Like, smile and wave, boys. Like, let's do it. Like, we got this. Um, and then I think that for people who feel maybe some people are like, I need to make more friends, or I want to get to know more people at Southwest. This is the greatest ministry to do that. So true. Because when you're standing at a door, you're meeting people constantly. And if you're hosting or you're You're helping people find their seats. You're meeting people constantly. And before people are rushing and needing help find seats, I challenge my people, walk the aisles, go meet someone. If you want to hear stories about what's going on at Southwest, join my team because that's where the stories are in the congregation. Um, and then it's fun to recruit. So I challenge my team every week. There's people sitting stagnant in our church and who have been five, 10 years who've never served, who are just waiting for an invitation to serve.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so I I bribe them. Person who recruits the most people,$50 gift card. Like, let's go. Like, go get them, go talk to them. Join our team.

SPEAKER_01:

Can I have a shirt?

SPEAKER_04:

They're like, I got 10 people. I'm like, yes, you did. And so I just think that if you're if you're scared to take the step to serve, it's a great place to jump in. The team is probably one of the most incredible teams that we have. They show up so well and they show up even well for me. They've made Hunter and I meals because they've seen how busy we've been, and they've dropped off flowers at our doors, and I've been sick, and there's medicine coming from everywhere, and teas, and like they just, it's a family. We've created a family culture, and and I really do think it's the greatest place to serve.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it sounds like it. And so if you can smile or wave, you can change somebody's life. That's what get us saying.

SPEAKER_04:

Basically, to sum it all up. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, there you have it, guys. Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Other Six Days podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe, follow, share, and like. Spread the word. And as always, take what you've heard and turn it into something you can do to further the gospel and the world around you. Until next time.