Frankly Fantasy Football
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Frankly Fantasy Football
Would You Rather?! Draft Choices in Rounds 5 - 8
Champions aren't crowned in the first four rounds of your fantasy draft—they're made in the critical middle rounds where research and strategy truly matter.
The Frankly Fantasy Football Podcast tackles the pivotal rounds 5-8 in this Would You Rather episode, breaking down tough decisions between similarly ranked players that will define your fantasy season. Frankie and Johnny dive deep into the stats, facts, and situations surrounding key player comparisons to help you make championship-caliber choices.
When comparing Chuba Hubbard vs. James Conner for your RB1 in a Zero RB strategy, both hosts agree that Hubbard's youth, contract security, and Carolina's improved offense give him the edge despite similar production last season. The George Pickens vs. Jaylen Waddle debate for a flex position reveals unanimous support for Pickens, who could experience a JuJu Smith-Schuster-type breakout alongside CeeDee Lamb in Dallas's pass-heavy offense.
The hosts actually disagree when debating Kyler Murray vs. Bo Nix at quarterback—Johnny favors Nix's upside in Sean Payton's system while Frankie believes Murray's rushing ability and improved weapons give him the higher ceiling. Rounding out the episode, both hosts prefer Evan Engram over Mark Andrews at tight end, citing Engram's sustainability through high target volume versus Andrews' touchdown dependency.
What makes these middle rounds so crucial is the ripple effect they have on your roster construction. The hosts provide valuable insight on leveraging these picks to maximize both floor and ceiling, potentially stacking players for enhanced weekly correlation, and targeting specific archetypes based on your early-round choices.
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All right, guys we're doing. Would you Rather Part 2. We're breaking down rounds 5 through 8. Don't forget like, share, subscribe. See you on the other side.
Speaker 2:All right, all right, all right, welcome to the show. This is the Frankly Fantasy Football Podcast. We are your hosts, Frankie and Johnny. Welcome in, brother. It's part two of the Would you Rather series, rounds five through eight. How are you feeling about it, frank?
Speaker 1:This is where champions are made Rounds five through eight. How are you feeling about it, frank? This is where champions are made, rounds five through eight. This is where all the work and effort is put in for these rounds, baby. So, guys, pay attention. These rounds are key to your success this year.
Speaker 2:That's right. Your 12-year-old nephew can draft rounds one through four and go as chalk as he wants to go, but once you get to five through eight, you got to know a little bit about a little bit here. Okay, guys, so we're going to help you out. What we're going to do is take each round and we're going to have two guys that are going to be right near each other in that draft and we're going to decide do we want this guy or do we want this guy? Frankie's going to lay out and tell you who he wants. So last episode we agreed on three out of four Frankie, which was odd. We don't always agree, but hopefully we can have a little combative conversation today, how's?
Speaker 2:that Sure Love it, let's go and we have no idea who the other one wants at this point. That's the other thing to put out there. All right, so let's see if we can get people on Instagram and TikTok to call you a cocksucker, Frankie. Let's get going here. Let's do it. Let's do our. Would you rather? Would you rather a poker stick up in your eye or eat a bag of shit? Sit up on a pineapple? Throw it in her dick?
Speaker 1:I said would you rather?
Speaker 2:All right, guys, we're going into round five here. So let's keep that in mind. This first scenario that we're going to have in round five we're doing kind of a zero RB strat. We've waited until round five to draft our first running back, which means we've got stud receivers and maybe we went up for a quarterback and a tight end, or three receivers and a quarterback. Either way, this is our running back one. Joe Mixon was drafted right in front of us guys. The next two guys that we're trying to decide upon are going to be James Conner versus Chuba Hubbard. Okay, last year James Conner was the running back 10. Chuba Hubbard last year was the running back 12. This year, their ECR expert consensus ranking back to back guys James Conner's 18, chuba Hubbard's 17.
Speaker 1:Frankie lay it out for us brother, this one's a tough one, this one is a tough one. And, guys, how we're going to do this is I'm going to break down stats and then I'm going to get to the facts and then we're going to give you the opinion. So let's start with the stats, right? So James Connor what did he do last year? Last year he averaged roughly 14 points a game and half PPR Very, very good year for James Conner. And when we look at just how well he did, he ended up having 236 rushing attempts, which, by the way, that's the most he's ever had in his NFL career. He's also had over a thousand yards rushing almost 1100. He had 1094. And then he also had eight rushing touchdowns, which is third most all time for what he has done in the NFL.
Speaker 1:Now, from a receiving perspective, this is where it was really fascinating. People think James Conner, they think that brute force running style which he does, which he has. He's done it since Pitt, not just Pittsburgh, but in college at the University of Pittsburgh. Now, from a receiving perspective, he had 55 targets. 55 targets, he had 47 receptions, 414 yards receiving and one receiving touchdown. Very, very good year for that of James Conner. Now, when we look at Chuba. Chuba had absolutely a career year for him. He ended up having 250 rushing attempts. He had 1,195 rushing yards and then he also ended up having 10 rushing touchdowns.
Speaker 1:Guys, when we look at his body of work from a receiving perspective again looking at Chuba Hubbard, he had 54 targets, 43 receptions. He had 54 targets, 43 receptions. He only had 171 receiving yards and he only had also one receiving touchdown. What does that equate to, guys? He averaged roughly about 15 points a game in half PPR. That's the stats.
Speaker 1:Let's get to the facts. The facts are when we look at the situation around him. Let's go to James Conner. Looking at the situation around James Conner today, guys, he has Marvin Harrison on the outside who, by the way, holy shit, did you see what he did over the offseason? It looks like he injected Tren into every facet of his being. I mean, he's huge looking.
Speaker 1:And in addition to that you got Michael Wilson, zay Jones and obviously Trey McBride. But that you got Michael Wilson, zay Jones and obviously Trey McBride. But you also have Trey Benson. And we've been circling Trey Benson now for two years wondering when this is going to happen, for when he starts cutting into some of that of James Comer's workload. Now, when we look at Chuba's facts what the situation is around him it's a little bit crazy because Panthers just brought in Rico Dowdle. They also drafted Trevor Etienne. Right, they also have Adam Thielen on the outside. They brought in Hunter Renfro. They drafted T-Mac McMillan in the first round this year. Guys from a receiver perspective. They also have Xavier Leguette. They also have Jalen Coker. So what I'm getting at is both of these guys have a lot of pieces around them and they also have a couple backups that could be eating into somewhat of their workload, should something happen.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, when we look at these guys I'm going to start with James Conner. Okay, James Conner is not the sexy running back that everybody wants to draft and sees him on the board and goes I have to take this guy. But he's been absolutely a stud for many, many years, and actually last year. What's interesting about James Connor is he was healthy, you know. I mean, he played. He played all what he played 16 games last year, yeah, you know. So when you see a healthy James Conner, what?
Speaker 2:The one thing that concerns me about James Conner is the receptions. They it was the highest receptions he's ever had in his career and I think it was because of how jacked up that offense was with Arizona. For some reason, Kyler Murray has been struggling uh, getting thrown the ball. I think he struggles to see. To be perfectly honest, it's almost like he's a Drew Brees where he drops back and he's looking over the line like this to see if he can find a guy. I think he's having troubles with that, but we saw the troubles with him and Marvin Harrison last year and where did that go? All the receptions went to James Conner and to Trey McBride. So the James Conner receptions were as high as they were. I don't know that that's going to be the case. They have to figure out that offense. They've got to be able to get the ball to Marvin Harrison Jr and the receivers. So I think it was they were dealing with what they had and what they were dealing with last year, which is why his receptions went so high. Now, if those come down, otherwise their entire stats between these two guys were almost exact and almost identical. I think the only difference is Chuba maybe had two more touchdowns. That was about it, but Conor had more receiving yards, so they were really about equal.
Speaker 2:When we look at Chuba Chuba, I think he doesn't have a bunch of guys breathing down his neck. Yeah, they brought in Rico Dowdle, but that's in great glass in case of emergency, You're not going to lose a lot of touches to Rico Dowdle, but when you draft a high draft capital running back like Trey Benson, who we were very high on last year and were disappointed that he didn't really get that much opportunity, I think we also expected James Conner to miss a few games too. He didn't, so we didn't get to see that, but they're still going to be working in Trey Benson. Again, like you said, it's James Connors biggest workload he's ever had. That's not great for an aging running back who has a history of soft tissue issues and getting hurt, so I'm a little concerned about that For me.
Speaker 2:I'm taking Chuba Hubbard, I'm choosing him over that. I think they're an emerging offense. Their offensive line is greatly improved and I think that with the weapons that they've brought on around Bryce Young, I think that's just going to help Chuba. He carried so much load last year. I think now it's going to open things up for him a little bit more and I think he's just going to have a great year. I think his floor is very high, I think his ceiling is limited, but his receptions will come down a tad as well. But I think he's just the safer choice and a better offense that I think is going to be in a position to score more often than they were last year even, which will help Chuba Hubbard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, john, I'm, you know, I'm with you, and and so what I mean by that is, guys, I'm also leaning Chuba Hubbard here, and for me, the biggest reason, when you look at strength of schedule against that of running backs, carolina has the best, the easiest strengths versus defenses. If you're a running back, excuse me, carolina has the best strength of schedule, meaning they have the weakest, which is fantastic for running backs, have the weakest, which is fantastic for running backs. And so then, when you layer on, okay, looking at the body of work that Chuba's done over the course of the last few years, he was then honored with a four-year $33 million contract, and so you're not going to pay that and ship out Miles Sanders and do all these things if this isn't your guy. And yeah, like you mentioned, they brought on Rico Dowdle, but it's a one-year deal. And, to your point, that's break class in case of an emergency. That's not a rookie running back behind you, that's really talented.
Speaker 1:And Trey Benson, from Florida State to where he's there, and do we see him start getting into the workload a little bit more of James Conner. So, guys, really, when you're looking at both of these, it's kind of you're splitting hairs because you could also make the argument, john, I know you said kind of the floor is a little bit more there for that of Chuba. I actually think that with James Conner he might be a little bit more safe, like in terms of perception, because we've seen James Conner for the last two years now have over a thousand yards rushing and people are like you know what, if I wait, he's my RB one, that's kind of what I'm assuming. He'll be between 700 yards and a thousand yards. Okay, cool, but I really think his ceiling is extremely cat. And so from when you look at Chuba, he's so much younger.
Speaker 1:We saw him come on, especially towards the back half of last year, and right, we had Andy Dalton majority of last year as well. And so when we saw Bryce Young come into fold, they got them a true receiver one. I think Xavier Leggett's going to take a step forward. So now they're going to have two good receivers and then you layer in Hunter Renfro Guys. They're not going to be able to stack the box, they're not. They're not going to be able to do that against this Panthers offense. And it's kind of like, hey, if Bryce Young takes a shit, which I don't think he will. But if they're going to have to rely on the rushing attack full go versus that of Kyler Murray, I don't foresee him taking a shit. I think he's going to be right around where he's projected and I think he even has more upside because he'll be healthy walking in this year. And then he'll have a receiver with Marvin Harrison walking into year two, who should absolutely improve from his rookie year, so on and so forth, trey McBride, et cetera.
Speaker 1:So for me, man, I'm with you in the sense of I'm also leaning Chuba Hubbard as your RB1. But again, it makes me a little uncomfortable, right. So you better make sure that those receivers are damn good, which they should be right, if you're going into an RB, a zero RB strat, maybe you took Josh Allen, lamar Jackson as your quarterback, or Joe Burrow, and right, looking at the other episode we did between Jalen hurts and Joe burrow and round four, let's say that's when you took your quarterback. So you, maybe you chose one of those guys, and now you're looking at that of Connor Hubbard. Guys, we're splitting hairs. But I'm with you, john, I'm going to the Hubbard.
Speaker 2:Does it change anything at all, knowing that this has to be your? Your running back one week one to be your one. Your running back one week one. This is your rb1 because you've got studs and four other guys and five other four other guys there. Does it change how you look at it between the two?
Speaker 1:because it has to be your one john, it would if, if chuba hubbard didn't have two years, two good years, um of play, and what I mean by so Chubb was walking into his fifth year, guys, I just want to be crystal clear but his rookie year wasn't great. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great. His sophomore year he definitely took a step back, but then the last two years, man, he's been solid. You look at what he did in 2023, even he had 902 yards rushing, he still ended up having five rushing touchdowns. He was still involved in the pass game with 44 targets and 39 receptions, and he actually had more receiving yards in 2023 than he did in that of 2024, last season.
Speaker 1:So, yes, that would have changed my mind to where I would be leaning, james Conner, if it was just one year. But now that we've had two solid years and we've seen progression from Chuba Hubbard and guys, he was really good out of college as well. We're not talking this was a fly-by-night seventh-round draft pick. I mean, he's a fourth-round draft pick. That was really solid in college. So for me, man, knowing that we've now seen two really good years from Chuba, when he shouldn't have been the guy right, they brought on, they signed Miles Sanders to a three-year deal. They drafted Jonathan Brooks and unfortunately he just hasn't been healthy, he hasn't been able to see the field and Chuba Hubbard said hey, screw you guys, I'm taking this job and I'm running with it To me. I'm comfortable in that sense now that we've seen the level of trajectory that he's been on.
Speaker 2:The other thing I'm going to do is you know these are two very safe guys and when you're going to zero RB strategy, I like taking my one, being that guy that's going to be right around these two guys' range. You know right around. You know 1,000, 1,100 yards, you know a handful of touchdowns. Get me somewhere in that middle range. Give me a safety net on my running back Now middle rate. Give me a safety net on my running back. Now what I'll do after I draft these guys. Since you went zero rb, you're going to load up on some zero rb talent. After this. I'm going to go for some of these running backs.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go for some of these, um, rookie running backs you know, because I want to take caleb johnson, rj harvey, I want to take some flyers on some guys later that have possible massive upside if they get the nod, or later down the season. So that way, if my safe guy that I'm worried about, and if it's James Conner or Chuba Hubbard, one of them goes down, I've got options behind that. Or I've got other ceiling plays where these guys can give me that 14 points a week and then I can find a guy who can give me some boner weeks here and there as well. So, love that. All right, let's move on here. Let's go to round six, frankie. All right, round six. Here, guys we need we're looking for a flex player. Okay, this is going to be a wide receiver to reflect some wide receiver depth, likely to be a guy we're starting in week one as well. Okay, let's keep that in mind. So here we're looking at two receivers here, guys, george Pickens versus Jalen Waddell All right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, we just talked a little bit about George Pickens in our New Faces, new Places wide receiver episode. But George Pickens last year was a wide receiver 38. Jalen Waddell was a wide receiver 49. This year George Pickens is projected ECR expert consensus ranking at wide receiver 34. Jalen Waddell, wide receiver 28. So very close to each other. And you know, as the rounds go on, guys and get longer, we're in round six. There's going to be a much bigger pool of guys that you're going to be looking at. You're not going to see the big teardrops like you do in those first couple of rounds. So there's a lot of guys in this range that you'll be looking at, but George Pickens and Jalen Waddell will be one of them, or two of them. Frankie, lay it out for us.
Speaker 1:Guys. So looking at the stats, to start George Pickens, let's go there In 2024, guys, he averaged roughly about 10 points a game and half PPR. And looking at his body of work, he was pretty damn solid man. He ended up having 103 targets, 59 receptions, 900 yards receiving and he had three touchdowns. Now a few callouts there. The three touchdowns is the lowest he's had since he's been in the NFL. So he's been in the NFL now three years, guys. He's walking into year four. The three touchdowns was kind of was brutal, and also the amount of receptions right, that was actually second. So that was the second most that he's had in the NFL.
Speaker 1:So when you also then factor in some of the other elements I mean the reality is that he also missed a few additional games last year and when you also look at from a stat perspective on his yards per reception or yards per target, actually, guys, he is a boom-bust kind of cat and what I mean by that is he's a downfield threat. He's a better, younger version of what we saw from Tyler Lockett, except in a more larger frame. He's a 50-50 ball kind of guy. But I'm trying to put it in the mindset of a boom-bust kind of cat knowing. When you're looking at 103 targets, 59 receptions and you're having 900 yards, you're getting the ball down the field. You're not a PPR kind of cat. Now, when we're looking at Jalen Waddell, it's actually the inverse, because Jalen Waddell, guys, is more of a PPR cat, and what he did is he actually averaged eight points a game and half PPR last year. And when you look at his full body of work, he had 83 targets, 58 receptions, 744 yards, receiving two receiving touchdowns.
Speaker 1:But he was also banged up last year. We saw him constantly in and out of the lineup and it was a mess. And then you saw Tua Tagovailoa getting banged up and all sorts of things. So the stats are a bit skewed in that sense, because when you look at what Jalen Waddell as well has done, let's say, the year before, in 2023 and in 2022, I mean, guys, last year was the only year Jalen Waddell hasn't eclipsed over a thousand yards and actually last year was also the only year that he's had under four total touchdowns for the season. So it was strictly due to situation, as well as banged up, as well as Tua going down.
Speaker 1:Now let's talk the facts. What is the situation around him? Let's keep going with that of Jalen Waddell. Well, guys, we've been talking a lot about a lot of Dolphins players, right?
Speaker 1:In the previous episode check it out we went through rounds one through four, giving you different would-you-rathers. We hit on Tyreek Hill, we hit on A-Chan, and so these are guys you got to factor into the situation. He does have Tyreek Hill vying for opportunity. He does have A-Chan vying for opportunity. They did bring in Darren Waller, they do have Nick Westbrook at Keene and they do have Jalen Wright, right, these are all things you have to take into consideration.
Speaker 1:And then, when you look at George Pickens, guys, we're completely flipped on our head here because he's walking into a completely unknown situation, meaning Dak Prescott at the quarterback. Is Dak going to be what we've seen historically, or is he going to be hurt and maybe does he come back to full form? We don't know. Ceedee Lamb is there. How is that going to work out when George Pickens isn't the true number one and maybe there's a couple games to where we see him not get the targets? Is George Pickens going to have his head on straight? In addition, you have Javante Williams, jaden Blue, jalen Tolbert, jake Ferguson. I mean, dude, the Dallas Cowboys have got some serious ass weapons, very similarly to that of the Dolphins. So from a fact perspective, both of these teams could be offensive juggernauts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this, this one's really tough. Um, I mean, we talked about in the last episode some of the the issues that Tyreek had. Uh, we talked about that and those issues don't go away. Those are a lot of the same issues for Jalen Waddle as well.
Speaker 2:The one thing that concerns me with Jalen Waddell I mean he's been pretty consistent. I mean I think we're all still just remembering and kind of basking in the glory of his 2021 season. You know, that's where he really broke out. That was his rookie season 140 targets, 100 catches, six touchdowns, over a thousand yards. The problem I have with jaylen waddle is that the three seasons after that, the the arrow just keeps going down. It's a it's a consistent downward trend in all categories. Basically, in uh receptions, I mean he had 140 targets in 2021, 2024. Last year was 83. I mean, that's a math. That's 60 different target difference there. Man, I mean it's just massive. Uh, you know, going from 104 catches to 58, um, eight, six and eight touchdowns those first two years to two last year.
Speaker 2:So I'm, I'm, I'm concerned. I mean, when you look at a wide receiver too, I'm not looking at a guy who's consistently going down year over year and it doesn't mean that all of a sudden, two is going to be amazing. The offense has got it together this year. There are question marks there. For me, I would rather take that guy that has the arrow pointing up. Yes, it's question marks because it's a new team, it's a new offense, but it's a good offense. It's a good team, it's a good quarterback, it's a team that can get the ball out to a wide receiver too, and he's the kind of guy to do it. Do I think he's going to get more than three touchdowns? Yeah, yeah, I do. I think he's going to be open down the sideline, often with CeeDee Lamb doing whatever the hell he wants, taking all of the defense away from from everybody.
Speaker 2:So for me, I'm going with George Pickens. I think his ceiling is much, much higher. There are going to be weeks that he's not going to do a whole lot for you. This is a flex play. Okay, there's weeks that he's going to drop off and not do a thing for you, but I think you're going to have that with Jalen Waddell too. I think there's going to be a lot of weeks with Jalen Waddell just getting a couple of catches, and it may not be the big catches, a couple of catches for George Pickens means one of those could be a 50-yard touchdown. That's the difference in my mind. We haven't seen Jalen Waddell do that for quite some time, we just haven't. So for me it's George Pickens all the way. I'd rather take the chance on that than take the chance on the second, maybe third. Look on the Miami Dolphins offense.
Speaker 1:John, I'm with you and I want to disagree, but unfortunately, man, george Pickens, I'm with you. And here's the situation, guys, could we see and maybe this is a hot take, maybe it's not, but could we see a very similar situation play out to where Juju Smith, schuster, on the Steelers, emerged as the receiver two next to Antonio Brown? Right, could we see George Pickens truly emerge as a badass receiver two in addition, like next to that of CeeDee Lamb? And when I mean emerge, I'm looking at Juju's year, next to Antonio Brown, when Antonio Brown went off, juju ended up having 166 targets, 111 receptions, 1,400 yards and seven touchdowns. Could we see? I don't know if he'll have 1,400 yards, but could we certainly see 1,100 yards, seven touchdowns and 100 receptions? Guys, I think that's totally possible.
Speaker 1:And here's why, john, for me the biggest callout is that the rushing attack for the Dallas Cowboys sucks. It's the reality. There's no ifs and buts about it. You can't get around it. Javante Williams we don't know how he's going to look. We have a very good history on him from the Broncos and, with the Broncos having a very good offensive line last year, he still sucked. Dare, I say he was losing the job that jaylen mclaughlin to where they actually drafted rj harvey in the second round and got jk dobbins for some pennies, right, and so they shipped off uh jabonte to that of dallas. And so now we're also hearing things coming out about jayden blue right, the rookie that they took in the fifth round this year, who is supposed to be dynamic, which he was in in Texas, but now he's coming out saying he's lazy and all of these other things.
Speaker 1:Guys, that doesn't bode any sort of hype or goodness to that of the rushing attack of the Dallas Cowboys. So what does that mean? That means, once again, it's in Dak's hands, which it should be. You're the highest paid quarterback in the NFL on a per year basis, at $60 million a year. So, dak Prescott, yeah, dude, you need to be slinging the rock. And this is exciting as well, john, because CeeDee Lamb has never had a true number two with him. Ceedee Lamb's had to do all of this since he came into the league being drafted from Oklahoma. So, guys, now you pair George Pickens with a guy like CD Lamb, and if Dak Prescott can get it going, we could see Dak Prescott have a Cinderella type of year, we could see CD Lamb have an excellent year and, dare I say, we could see George Pickens have a Juju Smith, juju Smith Schuster type of year, like what he had next to Antonio Brown, next to that of CD lamb. So I'm going with George Pickens man, I'm locking it in. I just hope he keeps his mind right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's. That's the difference for me too.
Speaker 1:I think you know. I mean seriously, they're both right there and yeah, he's got to keep his mind right.
Speaker 2:I don't think Pickens is a great receiver, but I think both of these guys are good receivers. I just think Pickens is more dangerous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, I wanted a little more taste of danger in my fantasy team. All right, yeah, love it. All right, let's move on to round seven here, frank. All right, so round, so round seven. Here's the scenario. We waited on quarterback. Okay, we did not want to spend up on the big names at quarterback. We loaded up. We've built a great team in the first six picks. We've got our starters all lined out. Everything looks wonderful. Now we're looking at our quarterback, okay. So we're going to take a round seven quarterback here, frank, and the two guys we love and we're looking at are Kyler Murray versus Bo Nix. Looking at are Kyler Murray versus Bo Nix, right, yeah, okay, yeah, kyler Murray last year was the quarterback 11. Last year, bo Nix was the quarterback nine. This year, bo Nix's ECR projection is quarterback eight. Kyler Murray is quarterback nine. So here we go Back to backseas. Baby, what are we looking at? Talk to us about Kyler Murray and Bo Nix.
Speaker 1:All right, guys, we're starting stats here. First we're looking at Kyler Murray for the Arizona Cardinals 2024. Guys, he ended up playing a full slate. How about that, John? Full slate since 2020.
Speaker 2:It's about time.
Speaker 1:Crazy, right? So when we look at what he did in 2024, he had roughly 18 points per game and a half PPR and in addition that equated to roughly, he had 541 passing attempts, 372 completions. He threw the ball for 3,800 yards, which was actually interesting because, john, what's crazy to think that's the second most he's done since he's been in the NFL. And guys remember he was a first overall draft pick, his rookie year in 2019. And so then he also threw for 21 touchdowns, 11 interceptions. But here's what was great to see again he had 78 rushing attempts, 572 rushing yards and he had five rushing touchdowns, tied for second most in his career. So, overall, kyler Murray really had a solid statistical year and, dare I say, we haven't even seen him actually at his peak. Now, when we start looking at Bo Nix, I mean dude, I don't know if there was more of a Cinderella story than it was. Bo Nix, maybe you could argue, jaden Daniels, sure, but when you look at the expectations put on Jaden Daniels versus that of Bo Nix, bo Nix was way more of a Cinderella story. When you look at what he did as a rookie 19 points a game, on average, for half PPR unreal man, I mean absolutely unreal guys. He ended up having 567 attempts, 376 completions, 37 almost 3800 yards passing, 29 touchdowns, 12 interceptions literally almost carbon copy of that of Kyler Murray man. And then you look at what he did from a rushing perspective very similar as well. We talked about. Kyler was 78. We have him with Bo Nix at 92, 430 rushing yards and four rushing touchdowns. Bo Nix was that dude as a rookie and so I mean, man, he's really showed out his rookie year, really did a good job. So let's talk about the facts, right? What's the situation? Well, let's start with Bo Nix. So let's talk about the facts, right, what's the situation? Well, let's start with Bo Nix. Bo Nix is walking into his sophomore year. Okay, that's the fact.
Speaker 1:The other fact is that they also added a plethora of resources around him, guys, he had Cortland Sutton last year, he had Marvin Mims and he had Vele last year, right, awesome. They add in a rookie of Pat Bryant. They add in Evan Ingram, who could be a superstar tight end for him. They also add RJ Harvey, who is going to be a stud. They're actually calling him Quadzilla 2.0. Check out those quads. It's pretty exciting, dare I say. And they also add in JK Dobbins man. So you're telling me now you're going to have a much better rushing attack than you've ever had, and you added receiving options. Love that for that of Bo Nix.
Speaker 1:Now, when we look at Kyler Murray, we can also say something similar, in the sense of they have Trey Benson, they have James Conner, they got the rushing attack locked up. They also have Marvin Harrison Jr walking into his sophomore year. Now, let's be real with ourselves. Marvin Harrison had a down rookie year from expectation standpoint, but he didn't have that bad of a year, guys. I mean, he was just his expectations were so high. Now you have Marvin Harrison Jr faster than last year, bigger than last year, scarier looking and everything, and man, I mean it's Marvin Harrison season. And then you layer on Michael Wilson, who's been proven to be a solid receiver to you. They bring in Zay Jones once more. They have Trey McBride right, they have a full, well-rounded team around Kyler Murray as well. Again, these are the facts, john. I'm curious to see what your opinions are.
Speaker 2:It's really tough, man. I mean initially going into this, I this. I thought, oh, this is so easy. I love bo nicks, you know I'm going with it's not even a question I am.
Speaker 2:I'm a big bo nicks guy, so I thought this was going to be. You know, I don't even have to look at it. I want bo nicks. But it is tough because you do look at it and we made such a big deal out of bo nicks last year being a rookie and putting up the numbers he did. I mean kyler beat him in every category. I mean pretty much. He had, uh, maybe a couple less um touchdowns, um then uh, yeah or no, bow nicks had a little more touchdowns, uh passing touchdowns, than kyler murray, but that's about it. I mean kyler was right there in all the other stat categories.
Speaker 2:So the problem is is we see a guy finished three years ago as the quarterback two and then your expectations. If he's not, that again, you just don't draft the guy and you write him off completely. I find myself doing this and you look at him and go, yeah, but he's the quarterback 10. And there's nothing wrong with being the quarterback 10 or 11. I mean that's a starting QB, that's fine. Yeah, we all get caught up in the hype, we all like the next new thing and the next new thing is Bo Nix. But looking at it, I do think that Bo Nix has a better opportunity this year.
Speaker 2:I do think that Kyler Murray will have a better year than he did last year. They have to. They have to figure out what was going on there with the connection between him and Marvin Harrison, with maybe some of the issues that Kyler Murray had. I think he's got that nice rushing floor that it doesn't kill you. That's the nice thing about it. So I think he's fine and he's safe. There is an upside to where, if all of a sudden they do make that connection Marvin Harrison and Kyler Murray you might have a really nice stack there, and that's a good point.
Speaker 2:If you're trying to decide between quarterbacks a lot of times, I'll use a stack as a tiebreaker, if I'm having a hard time deciding and yeah, I mean, cause if you drafted Marvin Harrison and you're trying to decide between Bo Nix and Kyler Murray and it's hard grab the stack and that'll make it a lot easier for you. Same with Cortland Sutton grab Bo Nix. I think those are going to be two excellent stacks for you. The Trey McBride Maybe you went Trey McBride early. The Trey McBride-Kyler Murray stack is very nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that would be a tiebreaker for me but it's so damn close. But I'm still going to take the upside potential of Bo Nix in a Sean Payton offense. I trust Sean Payton. I trust that they're going to make excellent decisions with the talent that they've surrounded Bo Nix with. His rushing could come down a little bit. You tend to see that with young quarterbacks as they get more comfortable, as they have more talent around the team, he doesn't have to look at the first second read and take off running. So his rushing could come down. But he's got that base. It's there. He can run some touchdowns in that. That threat is there and that could also open up the passing game for him. So I just see a brighter arrows pointing up for bo nicks than I do with kyler. But that's still right there. I stink. I still think they're going to finish very close to each other.
Speaker 1:I really do. Yeah, john, it's interesting because I'm actually going to go the opposite here. Man, I'm going kyler murray, that's who I'm taking. I'm taking Kyler Murray and the reason being is because I think we're going to see a lot more rushing from him this year and I think we're going to see a lot more out of the pocket kind of stuff the the scat. Like I saw something and I can't unsee it right.
Speaker 1:Last year there was a meme going around of like Kyler Murray looks like a toddler that gets out of the pocket and just starts running everywhere Right. And like that gets out of the pocket and just starts running everywhere Right. And like I think we're going to see a lot more of the toddler outside of the pocket running around making crazy ass plays. Just take them Right, just, you know, like just fuck, man, you can't, it's hard to touch him, you know, and just start and stop. I mean it's crazy. And so then you layer on a year two with Marvin Harrison Jr and Trey McBride. Man, I just think it's incredible. And so for me I like the upside that we haven't even eclipsed Kyler Murray's true potential yet, and especially with the head coach that came on last year, the year before. So that's still working into a few things. So for me, I'm really liking that and the bigger difference and I know this is crazy because it's all speculation, but it's Bo Nix sophomore year and what we saw like a for me, I go back to CJ Stroud. When we saw CJ Stroud, his rookie year, people were blown away. I was blown away, you were blown away. We were talking about this. The NFL world was blown away, and then he took a step back his sophomore year. There's more film, there's differences that come up right, and so for me, man, could we see a sophomore slump? If I'm looking to draft a guy like this in a round seven which is still a very, very good round like you're not drafting a backup, you're not drafting slop, like you need to make sure you hit. So for me, I'm actually going to go with Kyler Murray, because I think he has a nicer floor. I think that, therefore, I know we've seen Kyler Murray barring him getting injured or something like that I only see upside for him, and so that's why I think there's more risk on Bo Nix's part.
Speaker 1:In addition, who Bo Nix has to play week in and week out from his division? That Chiefs defense is nasty, that Chargers defense is nasty. The Raiders are going to get better with that of Pete Carroll and things of that nature and them paying Max Crosby and doing all this crazy shit. And, yes, I understand that the Rams have a good defense and Seattle's fairly good, but, guys, the 49ers are down. If you look at what they did from a defense perspective, they lost damn near everybody from a defense perspective. And then, yeah, the Rams have some really good young talent, but outside of that man, there's not really much there in terms of you know, the other divisional kind of teams, right?
Speaker 1:So for me, man, knowing that Kyler Murray then has to play these kind of teams multiple times versus what Bo Nix does, and then you layer on sophomore year potential slump again completely assumptive and speculative I just have seen it from a guy, in my opinion, who's a better overall quarterback in CJ Stroud see what he's done. That sketches me out a bit. So I'm actually leaning Kyler Murray strictly because I don't think we've seen his ceiling yet. We may have seen, we may have seen Bo Nix's ceiling, we don't know. So for me I'm going with a guy that I've seen a little bit more.
Speaker 2:I love that we disagree. All right, frankie's taking Kyler Murray. I am taking Bo Nix. All right, let's get to the last guy here, frank. All right, frankie's taking Kyler Murray. I am taking Bo Nix. All right, let's get to the last guy here, frank. All right, we're coming into round eight. Okay, okay, coming into round eight. Our team is filled, our team looks good. We're so happy. We're pumping our chest, we're drinking our beer, we're feeling so good. Yeah, we know, it's smooth sailing from here on out, man, and we decide, decide. We're going to draft a tight end at round eight. Okay, we didn't get any of the big guys. We're punting a little bit. We're going route eight. Two different guys we're looking at here. It's Mark Andrews versus Evan Ingram. All right.
Speaker 1:Last year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Last year Mark Andrews was a tight end five. Last year Mark Ingram was a tight end 30. Okay, Interesting. This year, the ECR where they're being drafted, expert consensus ranking, Mark Andrews is tight end seven and Evan Ingram is tight end nine. All right, Frankie, lay it out for us. Man, what are we doing with Mark Andrews versus Evan Ingram?
Speaker 1:Guys, starting with the stats, baby, let's look at Mark Andrews 2024,. He averaged roughly about 10 points a game and half PPR Very solid. What does that equate to guys? A game and half PPR Very solid. What does that equate to guys? It's roughly about 69 targets, 55 receptions, 673 yards receiving and 11 tutties, 11 touchdowns last year for Mark Andrews Absolutely excellent. And boy did we really see him come on towards the back half of that year. Front half of the year not so much. It was a little bit sketchy.
Speaker 1:But now, with Evan Ingram and John, you're right, evan Ingram didn't have a super great year, but that's because he was hurt, guys. He literally played nine games and not even all of those nine games that he played. Was he healthy the entirety of those nine games. So yes, that skews things a bit differently. But when we look at what he did, so yes, that skews things a bit differently, but when we look at what he did, he had 64 targets, 47 receptions, 365 yards and he had one touchdown in that time frame Great.
Speaker 1:Let's look at the facts. The facts is let's start with Evan Ingram, since we're on Evan Ingram, the facts are tight ends in a particular situation, with that of Sean Payton tend to perform very well, right, that's just what he does. He looks for an archetype of a certain type of player and he then inputs them in the tight end Joker role and what we see is it's very, very successful. And so then, when you look at what else is going on we mentioned it with Bo Nix they got RJ Harvey, jk Dobbins Guys. This is a very, very good running core. This is better than what Jacksonville's had. This is better than anything Evan Ingram has seen since he's been Valle, pat Bryan, etc. They have some good, solid young receivers around him. And then, obviously, with that, a Bo Nix that we just talked about is able to get the ball out and was effective last year.
Speaker 1:Now, when you look at Mark Andrews, mark Andrews, we know the Baltimore Raiders, right. We know they have King Henry. We know they have Zay Flowers, rashad Bateman. They bring in D-Hop, right. Check it out, guys, d-hop. We're going to talk about him a little. We talked about him quite a bit in our New Faces and New Places Receivers episode. Check it out if you haven't got a chance. And then they also have Isaiah Likely so for me, man, when you look at the facts and everything, it's kind of crazy because these two guys are extremely interchangeable when you're looking at drafting either one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this one's an interesting one. I like it because looking at their stats, it is difficult because you only had Evan Ingram play nine games last year. Yeah, and Mark Andrews screw Mark Andrews. I traded him after the first couple of weeks because he wasn't doing shit and then he went off and scored, like every single week. Damn it. That. That's my big concern with Mark Andrews. Is Isaiah likely? That Isaiah likely has been a thing.
Speaker 2:When Mark Andrews misses time, which Mark Andrews does, he loves to do, let's just be perfectly honest. But Mark Andrews, I mean he's a damn good tight end man. I mean you look at his season stats and you start getting a little. You know, yeah, last year, great, he was a tight end five. Year before that, a little down year, tight end 12, but 21 and 22,. I mean he was a tight end one in 21 and the tight end five in 22. That's when he was up to 153 targets, 113 targets. The last two years he's been in the 60s. So that's really what's happened there Now the reason why he was the tight end five.
Speaker 2:His stats aren't great. He had 11 touchdowns. Yeah, I mean 11 touchdowns Crazy. That is not a sticky stat. It is not something that is transferable year over year and something you can count on, unless it's the tush push for Jalen Hurts. You can't count on those touchdowns happening every week or every year. It's just not possible. Um, but you look at evan ingram. The two seasons prior to that 2022, 2023, with jacksonville, he was healthy, played full season, 17 week, 17 games. In each of those years he was the tight end six in both of those years we're looking at 98 targets, 143 targets, and that's only with four touchdowns. So he's just much more involved.
Speaker 2:Tight end in the offenses. Mark Mark Andrews kind of hit, pay dirt in the red zone. Otherwise he would have been not a tight end one. Otherwise, without those 11 touchdowns, ingram can do it as a player and Ingram now, with Sean Payton, with Bo Nix, he's going to be a part of that offense. It's Cortland Sutton and then a bunch of guys that are going to help out. That's what that is with Vele, with Marvin Mims. They're good players, yes, but they're young. They need, you know, polished, and you know they're not going to take tons and tons of targets away from Evan Ingram.
Speaker 2:I think having a young quarterback with a safety valve of a tight end like Evan Ingram is going to help Bo Nix. Again, a great stack. I think if you can get the Evan Ingram and a cheap stack when we're looking at it, cheap very, we're talking round seven and eight you can do the stack right there. Bo Nix, evan Ingram the very next round. I'm going with Evan Ingram on this one. I want the young talent who doesn't have, somebody who's very young and good breathing down his neck and good breathing down his neck and that can do it without the touchdowns. I am not having big eyes on those 11 touchdowns and hoping that repeats, because we've seen it in history. Likely it won't. I'd rather take the guy at the same statistical value that had four touchdowns, three touchdowns, and if he can increase those to six to eight as well, you've got a much better tight end for you.
Speaker 1:So I'm going with evan ingram man john, I like, I like it, man, and I got to be honest with you. I was leaning Mark Andrews up until really last night and I say that because I wanted to dig in further and it's contract year. That's the big difference for me. It's contract year for Mark Andrews. In addition to that, he's almost 30. So when you look at his prior contract, he already signed a four-year $56 million deal.
Speaker 1:They have a young buck and Isaiah Likely who dude, is talented, he is super talented waiting in the whims for an opportunity to be the guy. And, yes, do I think Mark Andrews is going to be good? Yes, I think he's going to be good. Do I also think that he has something to prove? After he had that drop against the Buffalo Bills? Hell, yeah, I think he has something to prove. I think he's going to come back with some fire, but the reality is is that I don't think Mark Andrews will be a Raven next year unless they decide to get rid of Isaiah likely and Mark Andrews take something super cheap, which I think they wouldn't do. In addition, man, they brought on D hop. So when you bring on D hop, he's definitely in a, no matter how you slice it. You look at what D hop did in Kansas city, people are like, oh yeah, he's just going to be doing cardio. Well, the reality is he did a little bit more than that and he definitely took away from some of that at Travis Kelsey, which I could see them also doing.
Speaker 1:From that of Mark Andrews, because, again we mentioned, you do have Zay Flowers, you do have Bateman, who they just gave a contract to, and now you bring in DeHop as a veteran leader here who's going to be helping on the outside. And where did DeHop do well last year? Red zone, and that is where Mark Andrews thrived from a touchdown perspective. That's going to even out guys. I would be, I would be. It would be crazy shocking to see him have double digit touchdowns again. Mark Andrews, I just don't see it. So that's why, man, I'm with you.
Speaker 1:I'm leaning Evan Ingram, because they brought this cat and they chose him. There's a difference here. They're choosing Evan Ingram in the offseason, they paid him a two-year contract. He's walking into a perfect style offense for what Evan Ingram does very well with Sean Payton and on top of it, man Bo Nix and him. There's already been speculation and talk that that's his guy. Like they're really building this connection off the field already and in practice and camp.
Speaker 1:So for me, I'm really excited about Evan Ingram. I'm really excited about his reception uptick. I think that he's only going to help Bo Nix in this offense. And, yes, do I think that RJ Harvey in the same breath is what I'm talking about we'll see an uptick in receptions from Evan Ingram. Do I also think RJ Harvey's going to take some receptions away? Of course I do, but I don't think it's going to be for an Evan Ingram. I think Vele could see a decrease in receptions. I think we could see Cortland Sutton has his own thing going on. I think he's going to be fine.
Speaker 1:But Marvin Mims, is he going to officially break out or is he going to be a guy like a Michael Wilson type of cat for the Arizona Cardinals to where, yeah, he's a good player, good burner, but there's nothing really more than that, right, which is there's value there. That's not what I'm saying, but it's nothing from a fantasy perspective to get you over the top. So for me, yeah, man, I'm going to go, evan Ingram as well. I think also Evan Ingram has a little bit more risk. I want to be crystal clear on that I think from an injury perspective, what we've seen, I think also going into a new offense, it might take a few additional weeks for him to get going. So I think that there are all these other factors in play. But I do think come end of season we'll look back Presumably both are healthy and we'll be like hey Evan Ingram. We could see him crack a top six kind of tight end perspective. Cr has him listed at nine. I think he could crack top, crack, top six all right, I love it, man.
Speaker 2:That is the. Would you rather rounds five through eight? I'd love that, man. Yeah, all right, so we're looking at this. So we did, uh uh, we both agree that we we want Chuba, is that correct?
Speaker 1:correct Yep, yep, okay.
Speaker 2:Over James Connor.
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:All right, uh, round six. Uh, we had George Pickens and Waddle. I took George Pickens, we both took George Pickens.
Speaker 1:Correct. Both took George Pickens Yep.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then round seven. We disagreed here with the quarterback. You wanted Kyler Murray, and I took Bo Nix, and we both agreed that Evan Ingram was a little better option for us than Mark Andrews at tight end. All right, I love it. Man Sounds good. Thank you so much for joining us everybody. That is the Would you Rather? Episodes that we put out here for you. Please don't forget to like, subscribe. Hit the notification bell. It's going to let you know every time we drop a new episode. Speaking of Frankie, what else do we have coming up, baby?
Speaker 1:Ooh, get ready, guys, we're going to be diving in balls deep to some mock drafts, guys. So we're going to be doing mock drafts as much as we can possibly do and we're going to be posting those. We're going to do a bunch of different variations. We're going to be diving into different strategies and, to that perspective, some of the other types of episodes. We're going to shift gears, guys. We mentioned it in the last Would you Rather rounds one through four. But just to give you, guys, some ideas of what's coming down the pike here, we got steals of the draft, meaning who do we think is going to be an absolute steal in your particular drafts? And then we're going to do a generational episode. We're getting Johnny Boy, gen Xer, with a millennial in myself, and we're going to bring on a Gen Zer to get their perspective as well. And then we're going to also hit on handcuffs, draft strategies and flyers and then bringing us full circle to our champions, which is Jon. That's one of the most fun episodes.
Speaker 2:So much fun. We got a ton coming for you. All right, and don't forget to follow us on Instagram and TikTok. They are going apeshit. Let's go Get in on the conversations, guys. We got a lot of arguments going on about who people would rather have over what we talked about, so get into the argument, man. Let's see if we can have some fun here, guys. All right, may the fantasy gods smile upon you. Bye.