Leaving Gossip Behind and Celebrating Successes: Shamans Cave

In a lot of spiritual traditions gossip is a way to make people feel that they are superior to others who have made a misstep or who are not behaving in an ethical manner. It is true it is up to our communities to let people know when there are unethical teachers who are hurting others instead of truly teaching ethically from a place where they have done a lot of personal work to tame and transmute their shadow.

When we can do this we end up creating unity which is so needed today. Division is separating all of us from joining together from a place of power. Join Renee and Sandra as they speak about the importance of lifting people up instead of creating more division in a divisive world. Join us as we celebrate life and unity!

Transcript

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Renee Baribeau: Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Shaman's cave! I'm Rene Bearbo, the practical Shaman.

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Sandra Ingerman: Hi, everyone! I'm Sandra Angerman, and I'm delighted to say that it's snowing in Santa Fe today.

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Renee Baribeau: I love that. In fact, it snowed here in the desert, up in the mountains. The snow yesterday was all the way down to the you know the desert floor almost. And I thought, maybe I'll go skiing one more time.

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Renee Baribeau: Yeah, that would be great.

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Renee Baribeau: I would probably like that because I hadn't been in years, and it was. There's nothing like skiing to make you feel connected with nature. But that's not what we're talking about today. Well, maybe it is.

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Sandra Ingerman: Well, you know, just to add to that, now that I'm 72, I can't say this anymore. But all my life I have said that I only have one regret in life, and that one regret was not learning how to ski until I was in my thirties.

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Sandra Ingerman: I really loved it, but I had too much fear in my body by that time I wasn't the brave little kid on the slopes, so that I used to say that was my only regret in life.

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Sandra Ingerman: Now I have books of regret.

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Renee Baribeau: No books of regret. I was.

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Sandra Ingerman: But.

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Renee Baribeau: I went skiing a few weeks ago. It was like

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Renee Baribeau: a couple of years ago. I didn't ski because I it was before I understood this glass thing, and how you need glasses and the shadows and the lights change when your eyes change. And so I stopped skiing.

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Sandra Ingerman: Hmm.

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Renee Baribeau: Because I thought I had a really bad day in Park City once, and but then I learned about the the go the better goggles and the glasses, and I was like a 20 year old again.

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Renee Baribeau: 11 year old. And one of the things is that because I skied and I used to run ski trips to Vermont when I was 11, for you know me. I've always been industrious, was the only way I could afford to ski was to get 30 other people to go with me. And so I ran big buses up there and stuff and all my friends on Facebook, who I who used to be on my buses are now my friends on Facebook.

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Renee Baribeau: And so one guy was in Bath this week, and you know we're still skiing, and I love that part that all of those people who used to get on my bus junkets to Vermont are still skiing are the ones that I know for sure.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, yeah, that's really neat.

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Sandra Ingerman: So we have an interesting topic today to talk about.

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Sandra Ingerman: and I'll introduce it because we both Renee and I have a lot to talk about, but one of the things that I wanted to start with which I thought was pretty interesting. And I'm really gonna apologize here because I can't.

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Sandra Ingerman: I can't remember the show that I was watching. But Woods and I are watching Netflix little series of of shows.

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Sandra Ingerman: and there was a show about people getting ready, trying to get an alien invasion coming in to help to bring information to earth.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so so it looks like the alien and the aliens came.

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Sandra Ingerman: but they actually didn't. They sent something to Earth.

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Sandra Ingerman: And what they sent to Earth

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Sandra Ingerman: was a really old record from the 19 fifties on a gold record

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Sandra Ingerman: of how the people of Earth messed up

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Sandra Ingerman: and divided instead of unified.

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Sandra Ingerman: And and that ended up being the whole message of the series. The movie. I burst into tears when I watched it, because it was just the other day. And you can really see what we've done as a planet. I mean, how more divisive can we possibly get with people not agreeing about absolutely anything?

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Sandra Ingerman: And what's really needed right now is for all of us to come together. And so when I 1st got involved in Shamanism, and I've shared this on other shows.

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Sandra Ingerman: the Shamanic community was incredibly divisive.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so I've always been a community person, and so I scheduled a meeting of all the Shamanic teachers in California, and about a hundred of them showed up.

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Sandra Ingerman: and I said, how can we support each other instead of backstab each other.

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Sandra Ingerman: anyway? Out of that meeting we ended up with a very small group that came together to put on these wonderful gatherings, and that's how we created unity.

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Sandra Ingerman: But a magazine came out of our work. Shaman's drum.

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Sandra Ingerman: and the editor was Timothy White, who's still alive, having a wonderful life in South America, and Shamanstrom was filled with divisive articles, tearing down other shamanic teachers. It was unbelievable. Every editorial, every article was

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Sandra Ingerman: tearing down Shamanic teachers. So 1 1 day I was in California I had already moved to Santa Fe when Shaman Strum came out.

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Sandra Ingerman: and I asked Timothy if we could meet. And I, said, Timothy, I'm really confused about the divisiveness, because our work together, when I was in San Francisco was all about unifying the Shamanic community.

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Sandra Ingerman: and the magazine is the opposite of what we agreed to do.

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Sandra Ingerman: and the metaphor that he gave me was to think about a well

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Sandra Ingerman: where there were all these crabs.

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Sandra Ingerman: and when one crab would start to get out of the well the rest of the crabs would pull it down.

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Sandra Ingerman: and that was the job of other Shamanic people to do that, to make sure that no shamanic teacher got too high in the well.

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Sandra Ingerman: So it was all about making sure everybody stayed down.

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Sandra Ingerman: and that really affected me. We're going back. We're talking 1983, when I had this conversation with Timothy.

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Sandra Ingerman: But yet we're still seeing it. Today. We're seeing where people, instead of uplifting and celebrating the successes and how we're helping the community.

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Sandra Ingerman: We love the gossip when somebody made a misstep.

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Sandra Ingerman: and then it's the gossip that takes over and again we're divided like the world is divided right now.

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Renee Baribeau: Yeah, that's a really interesting thing. And

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Renee Baribeau: I know for myself, that's been

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Renee Baribeau: a a real deep piece of my own shadow work that I had to do at this some time would be like, and I think it comes from that idea of comparing myself to other people.

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Renee Baribeau: And oh, they've got something that I don't have and put in. You know it's a it's a big piece of the 4th step in Aa is looking at, you know. Where am I being jealous and envious? And the envious is where? When I have a nice car in my own driveway? Why am I,

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Renee Baribeau: you know.

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Renee Baribeau: like in the person's Tesla, or whatever. I don't know what Tesla came from, but you know their car in the other driveway, and you know, having an opinion about that. They've got a better car than me, you know, or or like. You've got more people than me in your group, or and

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Renee Baribeau: and it was a really ugly part of myself that I really worked hard at. And really and so I guess what I'm saying is that there must be somehow that we

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Renee Baribeau: have this ingrained thing, that of comparing ourselves so that that we can't necessarily be always as happy for the other people's joy as we, we think we should be. But it's it's a fixable problem.

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Renee Baribeau: If you have that problem, I would really highly recommend you. You do the work to take care of it, because

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Renee Baribeau: when from that place there is no real joy for yourself.

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Renee Baribeau: And and right now I'm I'm doing these. I'm doing the Book Walkers Club, and I'm doing the Wind Oracle Circle, and

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Renee Baribeau: I'm really in like there was only a few people who showed up today for the Book Walkers Club.

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Renee Baribeau: and I felt more alive and more engaged with it than when I used to think like, well, where are the other 50 people who didn't show up today? But that to really be present for what is there in my life, instead of what isn't there in my life? And I think that we could use a lot more of that out in the world right now.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah. And in in the shamana community it. It's like, it's almost like,

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Sandra Ingerman: It's like you get scared. When you put out a new book.

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Sandra Ingerman: You put out something new because

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Sandra Ingerman: what the Shamanic community again likes to do is to judge instead of to celebrate. And instead of to come together.

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Sandra Ingerman: People students talk about. Oh, let's come together. Let's do more world ceremonies. Let's bring in more unity. But yet there's a tendency. Well, I study with this teacher because they do more powerful ceremonies.

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Sandra Ingerman: And I've always asked, what's a more powerful ceremony because the ones that you can't follow because they're too complex.

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Sandra Ingerman: That's not a powerful ceremony, because it was too complex for you to put your your whole being into performing it. And so, you know, we see a lot where people go well, and Sandra has this gift, and this person has this gift, and Rene has has this gift, and yes, we all have different strengths in how we teach.

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Sandra Ingerman: But what gets trans. What gets communicated a lot is when a drama happens.

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Sandra Ingerman: It's amazing how people gather

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Sandra Ingerman: and put so much energy into the drama instead of the strength of the community. Instead of saying, Well, that was really, I'm really sorry that that happened.

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Sandra Ingerman: Let's come back together. It did happen. Let's come back together instead of feeding so much gossip. I know it's an issue. I know it's an issue in every single practice that exists on the planet. Because, as you said, if people haven't done their shadow work, they move into judgment, comparing and jealousy.

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Sandra Ingerman: What a time on the planet to really want to come together and join our hearts together to join our lights together, instead of trying to actually separate our lights. It's really interesting to me how there's a part of the community that doesn't want to evolve to.

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Sandra Ingerman: How do we uplift everyone. How do we uplift everyone?

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Renee Baribeau: Hmm, I that's such a a great question. I was thinking of this week.

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Renee Baribeau: This man died in the addiction community.

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Renee Baribeau: and you know right off. People go into judgment about.

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Renee Baribeau: Well, you know he had. He had a kid, and how selfish that he was.

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Renee Baribeau: And 1st off I thought, like well, how sad for this little boy that he's never gonna get to see this dad, who loved him more than life himself.

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Renee Baribeau: you know, and and that if I

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Renee Baribeau: it was a heart again, this was such my big piece of shadow work, because, you know I was judgmental about my sister, who was a heroin addict.

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Renee Baribeau: and it wasn't until the last few years after she'd had a massive stroke where I came back around to get to know her.

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Renee Baribeau: you know, and she said she always wanted to write a book. That was if you'd asked me what I wanted to grow up what I wanted to be when I grew up. It wasn't this.

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Renee Baribeau: and to really see that that somebody from their place of hurt and their place of pain and their place of suffering.

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Renee Baribeau: And you would think that most of us went to Shamanic training to become healers.

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Sandra Ingerman: Right.

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Renee Baribeau: And yet, if we can't even heal our own judgmental wounds around these things like, how are we going to show up in the community. How are we going to show up when you know somebody has like, you know, my, my book has been a number one hot new release for over a month. And like.

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Renee Baribeau: I would think that everyone who listens to our podcast would be out there celebrating and buying a book. Wouldn't you think, like, you know we should have there. We have 50,000 people in the shaman's cave, and and thousands of people who listen to this, and I can tell you. I haven't sold thousands of books yet, and

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Renee Baribeau: and I could either be resentful about it or think, okay, this book is gonna land in the hands of the people who are gonna benefit from it.

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Renee Baribeau: And that's where I'm choosing to live these days.

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Sandra Ingerman: Right? Yeah, yeah. I wrote a book, a fall to Grace, and it was my only self-published book. It didn't do that badly for a self-published book, and the fact that I have cartons and cartons of it. But I don't have the physical ability at this point to set up an account with Amazon to sell it on Amazon.

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Sandra Ingerman: So that book always had a real cult following, I mean a real cult following the people who loved it

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Sandra Ingerman: loved it more than anything, you know. They

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Sandra Ingerman: crazy writing letters. And it was mostly teenagers. It was a cult, became a cult book with teenagers.

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Sandra Ingerman: And it's just really interesting how what I found for myself in this last year.

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Sandra Ingerman: because, you know, when I've taught for the ship network, I've gotten really good enrollments.

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Sandra Ingerman: and I know a lot of people have judged me for that. My students really appreciate the classes that I've taught. I put everything into it, and I have been teaching for 44 years, and so, you know, people come because they want to see an elder teacher. But you know, I know there's been a tremendous amount of judgment

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Sandra Ingerman: sent towards me about that I absolutely. I know that I know the Shamanic community too well.

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Sandra Ingerman: but the courses that I've really loved was when the ship network would set me up with a really really small group to do something in particular.

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Sandra Ingerman: or where I did something just for a really small group in particular. And, my God, how I would shine, and how I would feel! And I would feel so uplifted because I was able to truly connect with community.

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Sandra Ingerman: So, and part of really being able to truly connect with community is to move into a place of unity where you don't judge and where you don't say, well, I'm too nervous to work with you because of who you are, and it's like what I tell people on messenger when they say that to me is, Hey, I'm just another suffering soul.

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Sandra Ingerman: So please don't project this on me, please, and that's what we have to realize is that we're all humans with a heart and a soul and and everybody I mean, unless you're some unbelievably ascended master, that I don't know about right now. But my world doesn't expand that far out.

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Sandra Ingerman: People are really having a hard time right now.

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Sandra Ingerman: And to be able to uplift them. I mean, I have polishing the path of the soul out.

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Sandra Ingerman: I have 6 reviews. We have 58,000 people on Shaman's Cave. I have 48,000 people on my author's page. I have over 20,000 people on my

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Sandra Ingerman: email list. And and I have 5. I think 5 reviews. They're great reviews, and I don't take it personally, either. I did it in the beginning. I just realized that

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Sandra Ingerman: people are called to do what people want to do. And that's really not. The point of the show is to kind of say the Shamanic community doesn't show up which it doesn't always show up. And we

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Sandra Ingerman: that

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Sandra Ingerman: it's is, does the Shamanic community show up in love whether you buy Renee's book, or whether you're willing to give a product of mine a review. That's really not the point. The point is, how does the Shamanic community

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Sandra Ingerman: come together from a place of unity, like the spirits. Everything that the spirits teach in Shamanism is about unity. Everything is about unity, everything is about community. Everything is about honoring the land and honoring life.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so when we decide to put so much energy into divisive energies.

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Sandra Ingerman: and where we celebrate when somebody falls down the well instead of climbs up.

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Sandra Ingerman: What's the message that we're putting out of? How we're being in service to all of life right now? It's just a question for us to all reflect on of

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Sandra Ingerman: can I go inside myself and celebrate for Renee's success? You know I'm really when people are telling me now about a new book or new something coming out. I'm really getting. I'm celebrating so hard with them. It feels so good to do.

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Renee Baribeau: One moment.

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Sandra Ingerman: Instead of Wow! I wish somebody would say that about me. It's like

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Sandra Ingerman: this is where the energy is going. So let's support where the energy is going instead of judge and compare. Let's support where the energy is going, and stay with that energy and see where it goes, and see where it grows, and see where it evolves to.

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Renee Baribeau: I think that's a such a good point. And probably, you know, without, you know, beating this over the head cause we wanna uplift it. So let's make a commitment. Everyone to uplift somebody else this week like. And

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Renee Baribeau: and if we're looking at something where somebody has a success that's not your own.

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Renee Baribeau: Look at that, take a walk with that, and like. Why am I not happy for that person.

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Renee Baribeau: you know, really go in and and ask the hard questions, and

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Renee Baribeau: even, and and I, whatever the politics are, it's like, you know, to be that we're throwing energy at people like that. We've learned how our energy, we we understand how energy works. And yet we're throwing so much hate and divisiveness and stuff into the world.

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Renee Baribeau: What if we started to to honor the path that somebody else took to get to the finish line or their finish line, even if we don't agree with it.

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Renee Baribeau: you know, and and start holding up people. Maybe if we start started holding up people into the light a little bit more, some of their own shadow stuff would would be revealed, and they could maybe work on it. But if if we're just throwing out the negative towards other things, I think we're just making more goop.

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Sandra Ingerman: Absolutely. And for those of you who are on Facebook, I know a lot of people left.

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Sandra Ingerman: Experiment, and when somebody talks about their work. One of the things I love to do is say, Oh, my God, you're doing such brilliant work.

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Sandra Ingerman: Try doing that. Try doing that with a bunch of people that you respect, you know not like, oh, my God! Who is this person but that you really do that, that you're really touched. Say that say that the work is brilliant and touched, and and what happens for me when I do? That is a light. I feel light coming out of my.

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Sandra Ingerman: Absolutely no light is coming out of the other person's face, too.

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Renee Baribeau: That's really beautiful. It just reminds me I'm in this kindle, self-publishing group and in a in an Ingram Spark self publishing group. And these people that they hold up their book.

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Renee Baribeau: and it's the 1st thing, and they are so excited that they sold one or 2 copies, or 5 copies or 10 copies, you know, and

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Renee Baribeau: I'm celebrating that with them. Oh, that's really great. You sold 4 copies today, you know.

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Renee Baribeau: and and and that might not be what my goal is. But that's

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Renee Baribeau: a big movement for somebody to get all the way through writing something, publishing it and getting it out in the world. And the same goes when people publish a class, or they do, you know, risk with a video, it's a lot of risk to to put that out there into the world in this this place. So just let's see who you can celebrate this week.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yes, I love that I really love that, and I celebrate Renee for the work that you put out into the world. I celebrate both of us for the shaman's cave, and for bringing people together and getting the wonderful responses that we're getting from people that they really love to listen to us, and so

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Sandra Ingerman: we hope that you'll continue to enjoy the show. Listen to us, and subscribe and support us, and celebrate with us, and celebrate with each other in every way that you can.

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Renee Baribeau: Poof.

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Sandra Ingerman: Thank you.