Methods of Healing vs the Magic of Healing: Shamans Cave

Renee and Sandra take on a very potent topic about healing. Many shamanic practitioners today are stuck in the illusion that it is the methods of healing that people turn to shamanism today. But in reality, methods have never healed anyone. Shamans have used “methods” as a way to demonstrate that she/he is performing a healing. But the true work that creates the healing is the energetic forces swirling around the client.

When the shamanic practitioner creates sacred space, sings, dances, and prepares to be the hollow bone for the helping spirits that is when the most potent part of the work happens.

To learn more about this powerful topic join Renee Baribeau and Sandra Ingerman in this fascinating show Shamanstv.com.

Transcript

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Sandra Ingerman: Hi, everyone! I'm Sandra Ingerman, and welcome to the shaman's cave.

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Renee Baribeau: And I'm Rene Bearbo, the practical shaman. And we're really excited to be here today. And of course we have a very interesting topic. Well, we always think we have interesting.

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Renee Baribeau: I hope you think so too, and if you do make sure you like and subscribe and do all of those things.

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Renee Baribeau: But today we are talking about methods versus magic.

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Renee Baribeau: I think that would be a good thing. And and it comes to be about like just learning the methods of Shamanism, or whatever whatever other

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Renee Baribeau: thing you're following, doesn't necessarily give you the juice in order to do the healing and what you what is what we know as shamans is that you need that relationship with your spirit helpers, and that is everything. And

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Renee Baribeau: I think Sandra has really drove that home with me like.

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Renee Baribeau: yeah, if there's no magic, there's no Shamanism.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah.

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Sandra Ingerman: yeah, one of the things that I keep trying to teach in my workshops. I start in the beginning. It's not even an advanced workshop. It's the beginning. Workshops

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Sandra Ingerman: is that methods have never healed anyone, and and methods are not what Shamanism is about. And so it's very frustrating for me to look at the shamanic Facebook pages. Where what's the method? What's the method to do this? What's the method to do that? What's the method to cure this. Those are the actual words people are using.

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Sandra Ingerman: And the bottom line is that when shamans around the world actually perform methods, it's all show.

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Sandra Ingerman: It's all show. It's showmanship, and there isn't a real shaman on the planet who will not admit to that. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's not. It's not being dishonest. It's not lying. It's that shamans have always worked in the way that people are going to respond to in order to heal. And so

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Sandra Ingerman: the the more you can sing, the more you can grunt.

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Sandra Ingerman: You know that that you're really merged with your healing spirit. The bear and some people grunt, and some people roar when they do extraction work, and people always say, Sandra, you don't do stuff like this, and I do whatever I can. I do a lot of singing, but I'm not a grunter. I don't grunt.

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Sandra Ingerman: It's not my style, but you watch a lot of shamans do that, and it makes the client feel like something happened. And something did happen. Something actually did happen. It wasn't a lie.

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Sandra Ingerman: But what was happening was behind the grunting behind the growling behind the singing. There's an energy, because again, the shaman is just a hollow bone.

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Sandra Ingerman: So they're bringing through the spirits, who, while you're doing all this stuff with your drum and rattle. The spirits are doing the work. And so the 1st thing I teach in my workshops is, it's not methods that heal. It's the magic behind the methods that heal.

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Renee Baribeau: And I've always said spirit does not need shamans to heal you.

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Renee Baribeau: and we know that. And I know that personally, because some of my most profound healing moments have been

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Renee Baribeau: isolated instances where things just

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Renee Baribeau: happened. And I know you know you've had those similar experiences where you know you're near drowning experience. There was no Shaman standing on the beach. Now, Sandra, you go out there and drowned, or you know the time that I was dismembered in a lecture. You know. There was no one like standing over me with the rattle. It just happened, and that's not to say that there wasn't space being held somewhere for it. But it's not always identifiable.

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Renee Baribeau: and for me.

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Renee Baribeau: I think I was telling I was telling you before we started that I was very clunky when I started. I you know I needed the stick. I needed not only the stick for you, but the stick for me, so that I knew you know some methods that I could

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Renee Baribeau: make you feel more comfortable as we went, and I didn't do it very well.

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Renee Baribeau: And I think so. Sometimes learning a couple of basic practices is a good idea, but it's definitely not where you end up. And it's not really where the healing ever took place between me when I'd be holding space for somebody else's spirit to come through and do their work.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah. So you know, it's really, really important to set up sacred space. And a lot of people don't do that particular part. But it's actually how you do. Let the spirits know that important work is starting to happen.

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Sandra Ingerman: and a lot of people resist that. You know, it's like, I just want to do the method. You know. I just want to do the healing, and it's the setting up the space. It's the lighting the candle. It's the lighting, the sage, or whatever you're using, or whatever incense you're using.

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Sandra Ingerman: Those are the things that really attract the spirits. And those are the things that a lot of people really don't want to work with at this particular point in time.

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Sandra Ingerman: and I think that the negative side of that of not understanding the magic behind the method is actually leading a lot of clients to AI, because AI is kind of a neutral force that shows you love shows you compassion. It might have all been downloaded from somebody's book.

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Sandra Ingerman: but they're safe. But there's not the magic. The magic is missing. The magic behind. The method is missing, but because there's so many people who are teaching online and just teaching method after method and leaving out the magic. The next step of that is, I don't need a human. I'd rather work with a bot.

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Renee Baribeau: So true. When I 1st started going to the Anipi years and years ago.

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Renee Baribeau: We'd get there like mid afternoon.

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Renee Baribeau: and the you know, and the fire never would really get lit to almost sundown.

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Renee Baribeau: And what would we be doing? We'd be cleaning the grounds, you know. We'd be setting the fire.

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Renee Baribeau: and it wouldn't be until I was there for, like a 2 or 3 years that I was even really shown how to lay the fire.

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Renee Baribeau: Meanwhile, I'm thinking, like, you know, what is this that I got to take the blankets off every single time, and fold them up neatly and stick them over there in the pile, you know. Where is everybody else? Why am I the only one doing this because I had to learn that if I was the only one doing which was probably not even true, that I had to get over my my little tantrums and my resentments about not understanding that

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Renee Baribeau: folding and unfolding the blankets were as much as part of the ritual as getting in there with the heat and the steam and the songs. And I think you're talking about that. That missing idea of that method.

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Sandra Ingerman: I am. I mean just little things like I was teaching a workshop, and I had assistants, and

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Sandra Ingerman: and nobody created sacred space before I got in, and it was really interesting, because the group kind of stayed chaotic. And I really saw that it was how we stepped into that space, how we stepped into that space.

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Sandra Ingerman: And it is. It's about when you put the back jacks down, and when you put the chairs down I used to do that all myself. And now people help me out in my workshops to do it.

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Sandra Ingerman: But I actually did it with intention. I actually pictured people sitting there, and I spaced them out exactly right, and never had more chairs or back jacks in a circle than we were going to have people.

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Sandra Ingerman: you know. It's the little attention to detail. You can actually, you can bring magic in just by doing that one thing, and you know what you're saying. Renee, folding the blankets back up after you're done.

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Sandra Ingerman: It's all part of the ceremony, and and it's not that people don't want to do this. It's that they're not being educated to the magic behind the work.

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Renee Baribeau: And maybe there. It's the timing thing, because lucky for me, I was the Prep. Cook first, st and I had to learn to cut the batonettes the same way all the single time, every time. Same size, you know, the chef would come by, and, you know, slap your fingers if you

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Renee Baribeau: right, and you were a baker. So you had to learn about measuring the ingredients and putting them in there and working them a certain way. And you know. Now, people go online. I mean, I was so excited when I did this online ceremony, and you know, 200 people registered and 50 people showed up live.

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Renee Baribeau: And it didn't record.

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Renee Baribeau: not record. It was like, Yeah, no, those other 150 people. They're not going to be watching this ceremony later. Because what did I have to do when I wanted to learn? You know the the I had to show up early. I had to show up in person. Early. I had to stay there. I had to bring a dish to share afterwards, so it wasn't like. Here's an hour teaching. It was like, here's a 6 h block that you're going to show up every single Friday to do. You know, for years.

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Sandra Ingerman: Right, yeah.

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Renee Baribeau: And so we've really spoiled people with these, yeah, get it quick.

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Sandra Ingerman: Right? Yeah. And I think because

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Sandra Ingerman: I think because our lives are really ruled except for the people who have cut themselves off, which a lot of people are doing. And I think you and I are moving in that direction who really cut themselves off from technology. If you're really still so involved in technology. The methods are always going to be more important to you than the magic.

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Sandra Ingerman: because technology is gross meaning, it's dense.

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Sandra Ingerman: It's not going to bring you to a higher place. And so it's shutting off the technology and letting spirit start to enter all the cells of your body again, instead of all the news stories being in your cells, or all the crazy emails in your cells, or all the Facebook posts in your cells.

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Sandra Ingerman: You want spirit in yourselves.

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Sandra Ingerman: And and that's magic. And technology doesn't really allow that for us. And so we just need to find some balance in that. You know, I'm not saying, everybody needs to stop technology. We need to go back to the old days. I might, but not everybody's going to. But it is changing the world of Shamanism.

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Renee Baribeau: And I've I've been noticing that like recently, I've had a lot more students from Europe, and

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Renee Baribeau: we have like a Whatsapp group.

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Renee Baribeau: and how I'm noticing is how they're taking like the the windwork basics, for example, what

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Renee Baribeau: what's really clear is the people who just show up once a week to do the class, and then the people who show up all week to do the class. And and I think both Sandra and I, we've talked about it that we're enjoying teaching the students who are showing up all week.

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Renee Baribeau: you know, all week long with their practices more than you know, the people who, just, you know, drop in because I don't know.

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Renee Baribeau: I didn't just drop in.

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Sandra Ingerman: And I know you didn't just drop in right.

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Renee Baribeau: And and I think it's more. What I've been really thinking about lately is when we go back to the essential.

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Renee Baribeau: The essential of you know I have this new fire pit that's teaching me lessons.

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Renee Baribeau: And I'm like.

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Renee Baribeau: like, you know, the smithy out there in the yard has got like a personality, and and I and I'm like the student and I and I get that.

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Renee Baribeau: And I'm like, how do I serve? And how do I learn this? And what what part of this you know. Maybe I was so busy with the wind I forgot the fire for a little while.

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Sandra Ingerman: Well, I think we cycle in and out, learning from different elements. You know they all have so much to teach, and so I love the helping the elements, and I know the elements love me. But I go through cycles where I connect with one more than another, for sure.

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Sandra Ingerman: But you know, I really think that

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Sandra Ingerman: I really think that in doing a lot of the in person and a lot of the preparation work does take people a lot deeper into the work.

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Sandra Ingerman: It brings more joy into our lives to connect in that particular way. And and I think that we're all looking for a little bit more joy because things are feeling pretty heavy right now, and when you do that preparation work it is really joyful, you know, when when I was baking

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Sandra Ingerman: I would bake all night. I couldn't sleep, but my life wasn't that great, and so I always had things to worry about, so I didn't sleep.

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Sandra Ingerman: so I loved. I just love working the kneading of the bread, and it took me out of my mind, and it

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Sandra Ingerman: just what was in my heart so much love flowed into that bread that I never could make enough because people wanted it so badly. I couldn't make enough, and I knew I knew what it was. It wasn't the bread, because

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Sandra Ingerman: you know, I'm not like you, Renee. I don't know how to decorate things or make things look nice that you eat. Everything looks so funky that I made it was unbelievable, but everybody wanted it. Everybody. I was up all night just making things for people, cakes and breads and cookies and muffins.

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Sandra Ingerman: and it was a way for me to put love into everything that I made

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Sandra Ingerman: and people healed from that that was the magic. It wasn't the bread, it wasn't what I was making. It was my only channel for love.

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Renee Baribeau: Yeah, one time I was at a catering in this

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Renee Baribeau: and the rest of this guy came to the restaurant. And then I ran into him at Wegmans, and he's there like

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Renee Baribeau: he goes. Oh, I was at your place last night. It just wasn't the same, and I'm there like, but he's following my recipe to the T. And he goes. But, Rene, you cook with love.

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Sandra Ingerman: And.

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Renee Baribeau: And and that is just so true. I happen to live on an island where there's a organic farm school. And so there's a lot of farmers who stay on the island.

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Renee Baribeau: and I take the time to go around to the different farm stands to get

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Renee Baribeau: the fresh beets with the little greens on them, and the you know, and the carrots, because

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Renee Baribeau: I feel nourished when I eat this food that these people are growing with full intention. And and that's that's no different than putting your your energy into the tools that you can learn through classes. But it's it's that

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Renee Baribeau: it's that Unami unami is that the word where it's that 5th

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Renee Baribeau: something special that comes together, that aligns the whole entire thing with

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Renee Baribeau: this God self, that we have availability available to us.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, yeah, no, it's beautiful. And and seeing our shamanic tools as alive and allies that that we use. I remember we were talking on another show, and you were talking about how you went back to your young self, and we were also talking about

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Sandra Ingerman: how we're both finding that when we were younger. There was a lot more wisdom coming through us. I actually recently did a post on Facebook around that that I'm reading my old books because I'm finding my younger self had so much more wisdom than I do right now. So I'm going back and retrieving that old wisdom. But where that old wisdom came from was, I would

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Sandra Ingerman: pack my rattle in a very, very sacred cloth and pack it in a very sacred shoe box that I've had for over 40 years. Now that have flow. It's a shoe box that has flowers on it

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Sandra Ingerman: something shoes I bought 40 years ago in a special bag, and it was really a big deal for me back when I 1st started teaching to pack up my rattle and unpack it, and how I did all of that, and how much attention went into that. I mean just how much attention went into that, you know. Now I just grab a rattle and pick it up, and there's a difference.

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Sandra Ingerman: A big difference.

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Renee Baribeau: That's so funny, because when I was doing the ceremony for the solstice.

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Renee Baribeau: this this student of mine gave me this beautiful hand woven basket that had been sitting on the top of the shelf for a long, long time.

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Renee Baribeau: and

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Renee Baribeau: I've decided to unpack a box that I put, and I started to go through it, and with that same thing you're talking about where I look. Oh.

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Renee Baribeau: well, that's that bell Sandra gave me a long time ago, and I gave it a little ring, and then I put it in the little, the the carrying

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Renee Baribeau: basket, and then I brought that basket down to the fire, and I thought to myself.

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Renee Baribeau: who knew that this was going to be my medicine bag.

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Sandra Ingerman: Right.

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Renee Baribeau: For now it will never be sitting back up on the top of the shelf unless it's there's a reason for it. But it it just found its place yesterday.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, yeah, that's great.

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Renee Baribeau: Yeah, I was loving on that idea.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, and it has nothing to do with. I know that people are really stressed right now, financially, and this has nothing to do with money, you know. Back when I was teaching I had. I always had a car I can sleep in. That's how broke I was.

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Sandra Ingerman: I was one step away from homelessness that whole entire time. So when we're talking about creating sacred space and taking special care of our rattles and putting it in the special shoebox. This isn't about money. This isn't about having money. It's about. How do you take care of your tools, or how do you make your tools with heart.

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Sandra Ingerman: so that they carry the method that goes far beyond. They carry the magic that goes far beyond the method. And that's the point of what we're trying to say.

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Renee Baribeau: Right? So I think I think we've we've rattled this point home.

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Renee Baribeau: Yeah. And I, you kind of could get the message that yes, systems are good.

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Renee Baribeau: but that's not what we're not. That's not what we need right now.

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Renee Baribeau: We need all of the people listening to this, to remember the magic to remember to tap back into that magic, because

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Renee Baribeau: I think all of this chaos and all of this noise is designed to keep us from remembering our magic.

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Renee Baribeau: and the way to remember it is to go back to the old ways. You did things to stop with that negative self talk that we talked about in our last show, and to start to look at your tools again with a lot more reverence, and how you show up to do anything is how you show up to do everything.

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Sandra Ingerman: That's beautiful, Renee. I think that's that's the perfect ending. I don't think I can add anything to that. So thank you, and thank you everyone, and blessings and thanks for listening to our show and subscribing and telling others about it. And we love you.

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Renee Baribeau: Hmm, thank you.