What is the True Magic Behind Shamanism: Shamans Cave

In this show Renee and Sandra share stories and so many examples of what is behind the techniques and methods of shamanism revealing simple practices we can incorporate into our lives which makes every tool we use use in our practice of shamanism more potent.

Join Sandra Ingerman and Renee Baribeau as they speak to how they perceive what the true magic of shamanism is and how simply adding small ceremonies can be more potent that any healing method we have learned.  Visit our website shamanstv.com

Transcript

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Renee Baribeau: All the time.

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Sandra Ingerman: Hi everyone, I'm Sandra Ingerman, and welcome to the Shaman's Cave.

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Renee Baribeau: And I'm Renee Barbo, and every once in a while I introduce the topic, but I was thinking, the topic of this is about the magic of shamanism. Not the tools, not the techniques, not the, you know, the happenstance, but the magic, and…

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Renee Baribeau: I'll never forget, it was probably about 8 years ago, on this podcast, Sandra said something that stopped me in my tracks. She said.

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Renee Baribeau: The proof is in the pudding. And those weren't her words.

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Renee Baribeau: But without the magic, without the spirit, without the gift of going to Spirit and having Spirit intervene on your behalf to do something magical.

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Renee Baribeau: There is no shamanism.

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Renee Baribeau: And I remembered that, because I was writing the book, my new book, The Practical Shaman, and I was just trying to think, like, I can give you all the tools, and I can give you all the techniques that I've learned, but I can't give you the magic.

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Sandra Ingerman: Great.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, that's my frustration in teaching, is, I see people, trying to copy a method, you know, and, I watch people… I'll do a demonstration of a healing on somebody in a class.

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Sandra Ingerman: And when I pair people up, I see people looking around the room to see what everybody else is doing, and that's not the practice of shamanism. You know, it really isn't. It's not about…

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Sandra Ingerman: Well, you rattle. There was a shamanic teacher out there, I'm not mentioning anybody's names.

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Sandra Ingerman: And in the workshops that people were taking, if you didn't hold the feather exactly with your fingers right, you got yelled at.

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Sandra Ingerman: And that's not what shamanism is. Who cares what fingers you're using to hold the feather? It's… are you holding the feather in a sacred way, not are you holding it in the right way? I thought that was so hysterical to learn that.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so, because we're so, literal in everything in our culture, and everything is a method, and everything is a technology.

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Sandra Ingerman: And I'm always trying to get people to look at what's behind the method, what's the magic behind the method, not the method.

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Sandra Ingerman: And I can say that that's been the biggest frustration point for me in teaching for 46 years.

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Sandra Ingerman: Because people want… they want the method, they want the method that's gonna heal, but methods and techniques have never healed one person on the planet. They haven't. It's the energy you bring in, it's the presence you bring in.

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Sandra Ingerman: that's where the magic of shamanism is about. So, it's about,

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Sandra Ingerman: all the things that we do outside of the method. How do you prepare?

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Sandra Ingerman: to do the soil retrieval? How do you prepare to do the extraction? How do you prepare to do the psychopomp work? How do you prepare to do the work? It's not the work, it's…

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Sandra Ingerman: what state were you in? How did you prepare? Did you set up an altar? What are the prayers that you're using? Are you working with sacred reciprocity? Renee and I are always bringing that up, of,

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Sandra Ingerman: well, we're sharing this, and a good way to give back is this, and that's part of spiritual work. Everything, if you work with Indigenous shamans.

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Sandra Ingerman: Everything is about, if you're ill, everything is about looking at, did you give thanks?

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Sandra Ingerman: Did you give enough thanks? Not did you do things right, but did you give thanks? Did you pray? Did you leave offerings? It's not about the methods that we use, it's about the presence that we bring into the work.

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Renee Baribeau: And… And don't get us wrong here, because when I was learning to cook, for example.

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Renee Baribeau: I had to get knife skills.

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Renee Baribeau: like, I'll never forget being in the executive dining room at Chemical Bank, and, you know, the chef coming by and basically hitting me on my, you know, my knuckles with the upside-down knife, saying, your batonettes are not the same size.

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Renee Baribeau: I didn't even know the difference between the batteness to the chaffinade, and I had to learn those things. So that way, when… when I had a restaurant, and it was a busy Saturday night, I… I knew…

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Renee Baribeau: to put the meat in the pan, and I knew the routine, I knew the ritual, and so when I first was learning

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Renee Baribeau: these… this… this practice that I learned in this program I took, I had the notes, so I was, like, reading different…

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Renee Baribeau: Did I open up my sacred space, right? Did I do this? And… and it was like, I was fumbling over myself, until one time, this man, it was… I had my healing center, and I was demonstrating what I was learning at school, and he said, like.

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Renee Baribeau: He goes, I don't know if you can see this or not, but every time you go to put in some energy, I'm seeing green lights and lights, and I'm like, I'm just seeing that I'm trying to follow the sheet of paper.

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Sandra Ingerman: I, I couldn't…

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Renee Baribeau: I was so busy reading this sheet of paper that I didn't… wasn't even attracted or attached to the energy that I was actually, you know, giving the person lying on the floor.

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Renee Baribeau: And I had to learn the technique

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Renee Baribeau: In order for me to be comfortable with the magic.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, you know, what I do… what I started doing at my workshops, I started doing this many, many, many years ago.

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Sandra Ingerman: Because I think people know I teach soul retrieval, and I teach distraction, and I teach psychopomp work.

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Sandra Ingerman: So, I got so frustrated with this whole technique thing, because I can't tell you how many letters I got from other people's clients. I have to tell you that the person you referred me to, I opened up my eyes, and they were looking at their notes while they were working on me.

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Sandra Ingerman: And is this the way it's supposed to go? So, I got so frustrated, because…

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Sandra Ingerman: How do I get people to stop looking at their notes? And how do I get people to stop parroting me? So, now the exercise I've been doing, I don't know how many years it's been, I think it's been over 10 years now.

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Sandra Ingerman: Before I let people work on a partner with an actual method that I'm teaching, like soul retrieval.

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Sandra Ingerman: I have them pair up with somebody in the group who they don't know, and ask their spirits to do a healing on that person that the shaman who's worth practicing has never, ever heard of.

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Sandra Ingerman: Something unique, something that's never been done. It's never been in a book, in a movie, a TV show, a workshop, anywhere.

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Sandra Ingerman: You have to ask your spirits for a unique healing that has never been done on the planet.

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Sandra Ingerman: And, you can only imagine how powerful that is for people, but the day I started bringing that into my workshops was the day people stopped looking at their notes.

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Sandra Ingerman: When they paired up with a person to do a cell retrieval, as I was teaching it, to do an extraction, as I was teaching it, to do cycle pump work, as I was teaching it.

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Sandra Ingerman: Because they already knew their spirits were gonna heal in the way that they do.

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Renee Baribeau: That's kind of how I discovered windwork, actually, was that I… when I said, I want to have something new. I want to have something that I wasn't shown, and something that… that I could bring forward, and…

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Renee Baribeau: And I think my request was sincere enough that, you know, the wind said, oh yeah, we got something for you. Hold on to your hat. And…

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Renee Baribeau: And so… but I still remember, though, that… what a great technique that is, because one time I had this person I was practicing, you know.

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Renee Baribeau: She sat up in the middle of the healing and told me I wasn't doing it correctly.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah.

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Renee Baribeau: Talk about, like, you know, a buzzkill. It was like, I'm doing it the best that I know how to do it, and… and thank you very much, lie back down, or get up and go.

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Renee Baribeau: I never got over that. In our last show, we were talking about how when somebody says something nice, you carry it for 25 years. I never got over the fact that I didn't get this girl's healing the way she thought it should look.

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Sandra Ingerman: You know, the biggest complaint I get from students who study soul retrieval with me, and clients who do, soul retrievals, is, they always say that their clients don't… their practitioner doesn't work like me.

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Sandra Ingerman: And I go, but I don't work like me.

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Sandra Ingerman: is I'm always changing the work. It's about working on the client, not the method. And so, I still remember, I had this client who came to me, it was over 20 years ago, I still remember this.

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Sandra Ingerman: And I said something to him.

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Sandra Ingerman: He said to me, but on page 177, I spent 20 years, I still remember this, on page 177, you wrote, and that's different than what you're saying to me right now.

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Sandra Ingerman: And I'm like, what?

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Sandra Ingerman: Shamanism is a living practice. It's not… it's a… it's a living practice.

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Sandra Ingerman: It's a way of life. It's not about what's on page 177 of somebody's book. It's not about a particular way that you're working.

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Sandra Ingerman: Did you do the prayers before your client? Like, I would fast before I saw my clients. That was a huge sacrifice for me. That was back in the days when I was a compulsive eater. Who wanted to fast before I saw a client? What I was thinking about was food.

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Sandra Ingerman: But I found that food would get in the way. My body was so busy digesting that I couldn't really be the vehicle I needed to be for the spirits.

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Sandra Ingerman: So, do I… did I… because I fasted before I saw them? No. That wasn't part of the… that wasn't part of what I needed to share with them.

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Sandra Ingerman: But it was the part of the magic of why the ceremony was so successful. It wasn't the method, it was how much prayer I did before the client came.

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Sandra Ingerman: It was choosing to sacrifice certain foods, not drinking, not doing anything that would alter my consciousness, not drinking coffee, not having caffeine.

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Sandra Ingerman: So that I could be that tool for the spirits. That's where the magic is, and so…

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Sandra Ingerman: when I started to talk about this subject to Renee, I started to bring up altars and prayers and sacred reciprocity, and

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Sandra Ingerman: Thanking the elements, thanking the land, watching for omens. What are the offerings? Did you go out and sing to the sun, today?

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Sandra Ingerman: Did you dance? Did you sing at all? Those are the most powerful spiritual practices, and like in our last show, we were talking about that you can change the world one person at a time.

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Sandra Ingerman: You actually can change the world by doing these invisible practices that nobody knows that you're doing. Those are the things that change the collective energies. That's where the true magic of shamanism is. The true magic is what happened behind the technique.

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Sandra Ingerman: What did you do before the client came? What are you doing in your life that shows that you're connected to spirit on a daily basis?

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Renee Baribeau: Yeah, and I… I… I… Was struggling with something this week, and…

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Renee Baribeau: And I asked Spirit for a little…

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Renee Baribeau: how can I clear this? Because the more you… the more you heal yourself, the more these…

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Renee Baribeau: things, like, in the last show, Sandra was judging herself about not protesting. Well, this was about… I was having a resentment about something, and you know, there's no room for resentments in my life, you know, but they show up. And so, they're like, I need a little practice. And it's like, alright, well.

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Renee Baribeau: Did you blow your wind whistle today?

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Renee Baribeau: How about if you go out on the deck and give this

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Renee Baribeau: strand of energy that you're attaching to somebody else to the wind, and just breathe it in, and breathe it out. Because it's not always, like…

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Renee Baribeau: this friend that I know will set up a 3-hour altar before she does her groups. That's just not how I am.

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Renee Baribeau: I sometimes, I have to listen to Sandra. Hey, Renee, did you… did you talk to those spirits over in the Cotswolds to tell them you're coming? And they're like, no, I absolutely forgot to.

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Renee Baribeau: And it took all of, like, 5 minutes when I thought to do it, because you're really good at that, and I'm not, so I'm glad I had you, like… and as soon as I did it, they said, yes, we can't wait for you to get there!

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Renee Baribeau: So it's not a big, always a big, long 2-hour crystal grid setup. Sometimes it's just acknowledging that you're human, and that you need a little spiritual help in this.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, I find the 2-3 hour setups, can actually take away the focus from the work.

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Sandra Ingerman: Because if you get distracted during the 2-3 hour setups, again, you didn't really prepare well, because you were doing it by rote, or you were thinking about other things when you did it.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so, I kind of feel in today's world,

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Sandra Ingerman: Shorter, in a lot of ways, is better. You know, really put your presence and your energy in. Don't worry about how long it takes, but how potent is the presence and the energy that you put into the process.

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Sandra Ingerman: Because that's where the magic is gonna lead to. So, where we judge ourselves, well, I don't spend 2 to 3 hours preparing. Well, did you sing… did you sing to the sun for a minute?

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Sandra Ingerman: into the sun for a minute. That's really it, you know, because that's what changes your state of consciousness.

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Sandra Ingerman: And it's the change of consciousness that creates the magic, so that you're not… you're not working from a place of true ego. And just from your mental thoughts, you took a minute to just say.

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Sandra Ingerman: I am stepping through a veil, I'm stepping through a window that takes me out of the current state of consciousness that I'm in right now, and puts me into the magical consciousness of shamanism that has worked for over 100,000 years. So, why wouldn't it work now?

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Renee Baribeau: The, the,

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Renee Baribeau: And sometimes, you know, the rituals can start… they can look differently. Like, if I'm cooking a dinner party, which I really feel is one of my gifts of healing.

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Renee Baribeau: I'll clean the… I'll clean the house.

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Renee Baribeau: You know, I'll organize something, or if I'm leaving on a teaching journey, I'll pay the bills. I mean, rituals don't have to look like

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Renee Baribeau: light the smudge and do the whole house, they can be personal rituals that get you available to the magic. And I think that's what you were trying to say there. And of all the funny things is that person who did the 2- and 3-hour setups was the same person who told me I wasn't doing the healing right.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah. Yeah.

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Renee Baribeau: And if I had to do a 2- or 3-hour setup, which I do, when I'm getting ready for the fire tenders gathering.

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Renee Baribeau: I start a week before getting the candles, and getting the fire, and cleaning, you know, and making sure the weeds are pulled around the fire pit. So there's some setups that do take longer, but when I was just having a resentment, it was just enough to go out into the patio, call to the spirits, and say, I give this to you.

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Sandra Ingerman: Right, yeah. What I've been doing now is, I'm simply just lighting a candle. I'm just lighting a candle, and giving thanks.

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Sandra Ingerman: And that is where the magic of shamanism is. Instead of feeling like everything has to be a long ceremony.

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Sandra Ingerman: Can you actually light a candle and just give thanks?

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Sandra Ingerman: And just put it out there. We don't… we have so much judgment on correct and right, and we're moving into a time… I don't know if people are noticing this or not.

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Sandra Ingerman: But we're moving into a time, and Renee and I are authors, so this isn't exactly the happiest of time for either

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Sandra Ingerman: read books, and they don't want to go to workshops. They want to do things their own way. And it's not that they're lazy, it's not that they don't want to read. I do know there's a lot of people out there who just don't want to read right now. They're so distracted by what's going on.

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Sandra Ingerman: But what I'm hearing more and more from my students who are younger is, I want to find my own way. I don't want to work like you work, Sandra. I don't. I'm sorry. I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but I want to find my own way.

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Sandra Ingerman: And that's where our culture is going to now, and that's…

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Sandra Ingerman: That… that is a very positive change.

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Sandra Ingerman: There's more talk about, no, I don't want a teacher. I don't want a teacher, I want to find my own way. And so, yes, there's the positive to taking a workshop, there's a positive of reading a book and getting inspired.

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Sandra Ingerman: But a lot of the culture now is saying the world is changing, and everything is changing, and we need to move with the changes, and we need to find new ways.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so, that takes people to opening up to their own creativity, which leads them into the magic of shamanism.

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Renee Baribeau: Yes, and, like, I think any cycle, there… we laid a great foundation for the people who now have it in their DNA to find their own way.

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Renee Baribeau: And… and we're not even necessarily totally agreeing with the whole way that they're finding it. It's like, my niece and nephew have found their way back to church.

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Renee Baribeau: And people say, like, oh, the people are going back to church, and they're like, great!

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Renee Baribeau: Because for me, spiritual without religion wasn't working. You know, people were getting more selfish, more lazy, more… they weren't doing their practices, so if there's a generation that finds their way to church to get their spirit fed, I'm all for that. And if you're…

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Renee Baribeau: like Sandra and I on this path of nature-based traditions and shamanism, then you will find your way with the wind, or find your way with the water, or find your way with the trees, and… and that's okay, too.

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Renee Baribeau: But do it with some kind of personal ceremony around it. That's… that's mine, like, have some structure to your own ceremony.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, and I think I've also been reading about how many people are going back to church, and I'm a pretty religious person. I don't talk about it publicly, but I'm a very religious person.

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Sandra Ingerman: But the trap that people can get into is an outside authority. It's like a teacher, it's like a book. An outside authority is gonna save me.

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Sandra Ingerman: And, we also have to realize the power that we have inside of us

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Sandra Ingerman: That's gonna create the change. Once we do get in touch with Spirit Without, we have to get in touch with spirit within, and understand that the Spirit Within, we are a receipt of Source, so we're not different from Source. So, yes, go to church and pray.

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Sandra Ingerman: But don't give all your power away to that.

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Sandra Ingerman: Realize you still have power inside of you, and the little practices that you bring into your life.

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Sandra Ingerman: Are gonna be very healing, too.

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Renee Baribeau: I love that. You know, because in the wind work, which I think this will air before my course starts on the Shift Network, I talk about 15,000 years ago, we built these structures, and we had wind eyes, and the windows were called wind eyes. They kept us separate from the wind.

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Renee Baribeau: And then we needed an intermediary to tell us what the wind was saying. So, hopefully, all of you people going back to the churches and the pews and all of that, I support the community and the goodness that that brings, and I hope that you open up your wind eyes

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Renee Baribeau: and get that direct revelation that you're talking about, Sondra, because I think that's the key to how we can expand from what we've brought people to in the last 50 years.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, we can't… we can't keep asking an outside source to make miraculous changes for us.

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Sandra Ingerman: not willing to participate in that… those miraculous changes, too. And I think that's the only shadow side of, of…

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Sandra Ingerman: what some people can move into religion is now I have no responsibility, I just give it to a higher power, which I understand. As I said, I'm an extremely religious person, I always have been my whole life.

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Sandra Ingerman: But, an outside power doesn't always do it. We don't want to also give our own power away, too, that we came in to be the architects of our life. We came in to be architects of the world that we're living in. We came in to be architects.

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Sandra Ingerman: Bringing a new consciousness into the world, and so we work in partnership with the spiritual worlds, whether it's religion, whether it's shamanism.

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Sandra Ingerman: It really doesn't matter, but it's not giving your power away, it's working in partnership with…

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Renee Baribeau: I think that's a beautiful end to this conversation that kind of

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Renee Baribeau: danced all over the place, and…

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Renee Baribeau: But we hope you got the point of this, that It's the magic that happens

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Renee Baribeau: there was that song, when two or more are gathered, there's love, you know? It's that other thing that happens with you and your ceremonies and your rituals and all of the other things that is that space for creation, and I wish that for you.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, and before we go, since this is airing before your course, do you want to say something about your course, Renee?

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Renee Baribeau: So, I'm finally very excited, because when I said earlier that I asked Spirit to give me something that nobody had taught, I didn't understand the responsibility of bringing in the wind.

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Renee Baribeau: And so when I taught a course six, seven years ago for the Shift Network, it was a direct revelation that I was sorting through, and lucky 300 or 400 students came along to help me sort it through.

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Renee Baribeau: But over the last 7 years, it's created itself into a technique, some tools, and a system for working with the winds, and walking with the winds, and understanding that

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Renee Baribeau: The wind doesn't push, the wind moves. And learning how to move with the wind, and so if you're

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Renee Baribeau: if you listen to me and you think I'm irreverent and that I'm, you know, a fly-by-night, I am, but I'm also a grounded teacher of the wind.

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Renee Baribeau: And they needed somebody as windy as me to probably bring in this work, but I'll be teaching a 7-week course at the Shift Network about how to really walk in harmony with the winds.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, and it's really a perfect time, Renee, because there's so much going on this month, and…

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Sandra Ingerman: when you're teaching astrologically, that, there really can be a major shift in consciousness right now, although it looks like we're going down. The chaos is getting so intense that a change will happen.

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Sandra Ingerman: And from what I'm talking to other people about, what I'm hearing from my own spirits about, is that positive change can happen out of this chaos.

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Sandra Ingerman: And this is a wonderful time to be inspired by your work, and I find that the wind is such a powerful element to work with.

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Sandra Ingerman: to help us to learn how to work with the flow that's going on, how to work with the stormy times and the silent times. It's such a powerful, time to connect with an element like that. So, I'm excited for your course, Renee.

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Renee Baribeau: Thank you. Yeah, a few weeks ago, and I'll end on this, I was in bed, and the wind was whipping out so hard, the palm trees were going, I was still in the desert, and I… I got in fear!

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Renee Baribeau: And I'm thinking, like.

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Renee Baribeau: Why are you in fear? You have a relationship with the wind. And as soon as I said.

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Renee Baribeau: I have a relationship with the wind, the fear subsided.

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Renee Baribeau: And I don't know if the wind subsided, because it subsided enough for me to go back to sleep, but it was like, oh yeah, the wind has my back.

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Renee Baribeau: And… I knew I was gonna be alright.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, yeah.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, and we're just gonna be okay.

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Sandra Ingerman: We're all gonna be okay. That's what life is about, is realizing it's all about

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Sandra Ingerman: The changes you make, what you're doing in your life, the presence that you bring to your life, and when you really get that, you stop worrying about what's gonna happen next, you stay in the present and realize the wind always has your back.

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Renee Baribeau: Great place to end. Come over to the Shaman's Cave, follow us on your favorite podcast place, and tell your friends about this channel, please.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, thank you, everyone, for all your support. I know that we've been getting some donations, we've been getting more people showing up, we've been getting more shares, and it really is about word of mouth, and so please share the show with other people, and thank you for supporting

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Sandra Ingerman: us on the Shaman's Cave. So, sending much love to everybody, and

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Sandra Ingerman: Don't give up. This is not a time to give up. We're actually first starting. So, things… things are gonna change. So, just trust your heart, trust the elements, trust the spirits.

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Sandra Ingerman: And keep walking on your path.

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Renee Baribeau: Blessings.