The Return to Ancient Shamanism: Shamans Cave

The universal practice of shamanism dates back over 100,000 years. Originally shamanism was all about connecting the land, the plants, the animals, the Elements, and the Moon, stars, planets, galaxies, and the Universe. Shamanism was practiced for survival. The sky beings gave Shamans around the world all the news of what was happening on the planet and what was to come. The Spirits taught Shamans how to deeply connect to the land to build shelter and to find food.

In a modern technological society, our needs changed and we turned to the practice of shamanism for our personal needs.

Join Renee Baribeau and Sandra Ingerman  as they explore how we are now moving to a time where we do need to create true embodiment with the forces of Shamanism that helped people survive for ages. This is such a potent topic!

Transcript

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Renee Baribeau: Hello, everyone! It's Renee Barabeau, the Practical Shaman. Welcome to the Shaman's Cave!

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Sandra Ingerman: Hi everyone, I'm Sandra Ingerman, and welcome to the Shaman's Cave. And I think we have a really interesting, topic, today that I think that you'll be very interested in.

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Sandra Ingerman: I've really been… because I have a new ship network class coming up, and I have to do interviews and lectures and videos for it.

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Sandra Ingerman: I've been thinking a lot about, where shamanism started and where we are now.

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Sandra Ingerman: As of October, I will have been teaching shamanism for 46 years, and that's almost half a century. So, kind of imagine what I've seen traveling around the world in half a century.

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Sandra Ingerman: And when you look at the original roots of shamanism.

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Sandra Ingerman: Shamanism was really a very simple practice. It was about…

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Sandra Ingerman: How do we live on the land? How do we caretake the land? How do we develop a deep, embodied connection with the land, the elements, the plants, the animals?

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Sandra Ingerman: the stars, the moon, the galaxies, the planets, because everything was… and shamanism was about the survival of the community. Everything was about the survival of the community. And so, without technology, you had to connect

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Sandra Ingerman: Through a very embodied practice, with the land, with the food that you needed to eat.

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Sandra Ingerman: how to get the materials to build shelter, and then the night sky actually helped, the shamans prophesize what was coming. And when you look at shamanism from a cross-cultural perspective.

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Sandra Ingerman: How did the shamans in Siberia and Mongolia know the same exact Earth events were happening as the shamans in South America, or Australia and Africa? How did everybody have the same information?

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Sandra Ingerman: It was through watching the night sky. The planets talked to the shamans, they sang songs.

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Sandra Ingerman: They… they… shamans learned the language of the night sky.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so, the shamans had to learn the language of the land, and they had to learn the language of the night sky to help their communities.

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Sandra Ingerman: survive, and…

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Sandra Ingerman: We in the modern world, because we've had technology, we've more used the spirits for, how do I find a relationship, how do I get a job, how do I heal?

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Sandra Ingerman: A lot of people, a lot of people, thousands of people, used the practice of shamanism to raise consciousness, so not everybody was just looking at their personal needs.

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Sandra Ingerman: A lot of people really went deep to raise consciousness.

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Sandra Ingerman: But with the technological world, we've lost some of that embodied connection. We see ourselves as connecting to the land and the animals and nature.

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Sandra Ingerman: But are we really? How embodied are we in the practice? And so I think we're kind of looping back to the origins of shamanism again, because we're moving back into a place of having to be creative of how we're going to survive the coming times.

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Renee Baribeau: It's such a good…

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Renee Baribeau: start in here. I know one of the things that fascinated me most was that whole idea of, well, how did the Quechua people who were living at 18, 17, 18,000 feet know

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Renee Baribeau: anything, you know? Like, if they're just living in their community, how did they know what was going on, or how did these… how did they know what the prophecies were for these times that, you know, they call the patchicuti of the overturning of the world? Like, how did they sit there and know? And…

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Renee Baribeau: I'm curious, because I'm going back to Peru, and there's still room if you want to come with me this fall, and I want to see how much, since I don't think I've been there in 8 or so years, what…

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Renee Baribeau: Has their direct connection been severed through their iPhones and their city slickers, and they're teaching all over on Zoom? Or are they still listening?

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Renee Baribeau: Are they still observing nature? You know, how are their dreams? Have… have their… have their…

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Renee Baribeau: cosmology, their cosmogony changed with the changing times that they're now living in, and is their direct relationship with spirit still intact?

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, it's a tricky question because, the world has changed so much.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so people practicing shamanism have changed, and not to be judgmental, there are so many shamans out there now. You know, in South America, you've got the real shamans.

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Sandra Ingerman: But you also have the just regular people who show up at… at the airports and… and shamans,

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Sandra Ingerman: regalia, because they've learned that Westerners will basically go with anybody at the airport who says that

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Sandra Ingerman: So, you know, it's been a way for them to make money, and that's happening in all different places around the world. We have a lot of people who took one workshop on shamanism and are doing certification classes.

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Sandra Ingerman: You know, one of the things that we're looking at is such overpopulation on the planet right now that it's almost like every, every,

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Sandra Ingerman: spiritual practice is almost overpopulated, not with students. We need more students, who are interested in spiritual work.

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Sandra Ingerman: But it's… there's so many people out there teaching.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so, on the positive side of that, it's, wow, yes, there's a lot of inspiration for people to step into. On the challenging side of that, shamanism has become incredibly competitive, incredibly divisive.

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Sandra Ingerman: And in some cases, the greed factor that is…

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Sandra Ingerman: has really been injected into the whole world has… is injected into shamanism. And so, it's a tricky time in, finding who is still doing

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Sandra Ingerman: the, I don't want to say the real work, real isn't really the right name.

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Sandra Ingerman: But who's doing the highest form of the work, so that it's about raising consciousness and moving into a state of love, unity, and peace?

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Sandra Ingerman: Which, as we know, in the beginning of shamanism, there were still wars going on over territory, but again, it was survival. You know, people ran out of food, so they went to another place, and they had to conquer another tribe in order to get food.

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Sandra Ingerman: But inherent in the practice of shamanism, because it always went back to the creator gods, every shamanic culture has their creation stories.

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Sandra Ingerman: That,

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Sandra Ingerman: created the morals and the ethics for the community to live their lives. Their creation stories were a roadmap

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Sandra Ingerman: Of how do we lead a good life?

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Sandra Ingerman: The creation stories were all about love, unity, kindness, compassion.

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Sandra Ingerman: And treating nature as one, as family. And, so even though there was that divisive element, in the beginning.

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Sandra Ingerman: we're at a place in our culture, everywhere on the planet, I don't care what country you're in, where the division right now is so strong, that…

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Sandra Ingerman: In order for us to survive on this earth, we have to come back together and start sharing knowledge, instead of saying, this knowledge is mine, and you have to have a certain amount of money to be able to get this knowledge.

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Sandra Ingerman: And nobody else has it except for me. That's not true. We're all sharing the same knowledge, we're just using different words.

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Sandra Ingerman: And so… It really is about, yes, we're moving back to the place with shamanism.

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Sandra Ingerman: Where we have to learn how to connect with each other and the land and everything in nature, again, in more of an embodied way. I do not… I don't think most people understand what I'm saying by the word embodied.

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Sandra Ingerman: just going up to a tree and hugging it and saying, I love you, is not an embodied connection. There's a different way to connect from our soul, from soul to soul. And I think that's where we're moving back to in shamanism.

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Sandra Ingerman: Regardless of some of the negative things that we're seeing, this is where we're going to have to move back to in order to really make it on the planet, and not struggle so much.

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Renee Baribeau: Yeah, I think we're moving from a trend-based shamanism back to desperation shamanism, where, as, like you said, the hunters and the gatherers, or the people who are living at those high altitudes, they needed that essential relationship with the land in order to survive.

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Renee Baribeau: And, you know, we got into our spiritual bath salts, and, you know, we're soaking there, thinking, oh, this is really nice, and I have all this extra money and time to put into this endeavor. And now, as we know, if we look around us and people are, you know, they're desperately seeking something.

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Renee Baribeau: You know, I think that's the big move in some of the more organized religions that people are

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Renee Baribeau: Desperately seeking something, and when they… when they're… when there's that need to… Find that spiritual, you know… Bomb.

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Renee Baribeau: you know, that's the opportunity to either deepen your own practice or not. The other day, I was getting on the ferry, and I thought, oh, I think I'll reach out to so-and-so. I pick up the phone and call her, and she said, oh.

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Renee Baribeau: This is perfect timing!

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Renee Baribeau: And, I didn't quite understand. She was at the beach.

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Renee Baribeau: praying for the 21 whales that have died. You know, the 21 gray whales. And it wasn't with a big fanfare, or a big circumstance, or anything like that, she said, but I find it really interesting that you'd call me right now while I'm at this beach praying.

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Sandra Ingerman: Right.

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Renee Baribeau: Maybe since you're on the ferry, you need to join in with my prayer and say a prayer to the whales, too.

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Renee Baribeau: And so I think there's a lot of people who are quietly doing their work.

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Renee Baribeau: And then there's, you know, the showmen, people, you know, out there trying to gather people to do it, when really the work is so individual.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, and it's always been like that. You know, I taught, I co-taught with this

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Sandra Ingerman: Lakota Sioux, amazing woman, Carol Proudfoot Edgar.

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Sandra Ingerman: And, Carol was one of the most…

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Sandra Ingerman: powerful shamans I've ever met, you know, besides working with somebody from Siberia, or a really true shaman who went through all the initiations, and she really did. You know, she was raised in one of those

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Sandra Ingerman: Schools where she was taken from her tribe, and…

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Sandra Ingerman: beaten, and how to speak English, and, you know, the whole story goes on. And Carol was so brilliant, and she affected so many people, but she never went really public.

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Sandra Ingerman: But… Her groups, she's… she's gone now,

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Sandra Ingerman: And her groups are still going to the land all over, traveling to lands all over.

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Sandra Ingerman: doing the work that Carol taught of keeping your prayers going, keeping your prayers going, of how I was talking about the origins of shamanism have been.

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Sandra Ingerman: And, you know, most… nobody knows who she is, but what she did was incredible. And there are so many teachers who are like that.

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Sandra Ingerman: And then so many individuals who do not see themselves as teachers, but as you're saying, they're doing some of the deepest work for the planet that you can imagine.

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Sandra Ingerman: I think for me, the difference is, I think,

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Sandra Ingerman: I'm moving into that place where I'm moving out of being public, but I was public for 46 years, it's just… I'm an elder, and it's a different time of life, so it's a time for me to go inside

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Sandra Ingerman: And to pray. That's, you know, that is the role of elders, is…

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Sandra Ingerman: to do that deep inner work and to put your attention more into prayer than running around the planet. So, I'm definitely in that stage, but…

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Sandra Ingerman: what I'm seeing, and what I'm trying to get people to understand, and unfortunately, there's no words to describe it. You either get it or you don't.

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Sandra Ingerman: Is that we're practicing shamanism with our minds.

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Sandra Ingerman: Instead of our bodies.

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Sandra Ingerman: And shaman… the practice of shamanism originally, if we return back to the roots of shamanism, it's practicing it with your body, connecting more on a clairsentient…

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Sandra Ingerman: Way with the rest of life, instead of talking to the rest of life and treating everything like a human.

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Sandra Ingerman: You know, we have to move into a very different place to be able to connect body to body and really have a different form of connection.

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Sandra Ingerman: By having a body awareness of how nature is communicating with us.

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Sandra Ingerman: Instead of putting everything into words and doing everything from a mental state, and I think… I think that's a place that we're returning to. And also, you brought up your friend, mourning the whales that died.

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Sandra Ingerman: And that is something that humans have to start to move into, is not just mourning human life, but…

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Sandra Ingerman: We have billions of species of birds.

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Sandra Ingerman: Millions of species of animals that live in the sea, sea creatures, who are now extinct because of what we've done.

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Sandra Ingerman: And it's time to come together again, and this is, again, part of ancient shamanism, to mourn these big losses that we're seeing.

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Renee Baribeau: And the whales are just so big, they're right in our face, you know, but the fact that they're starving to death in our sea…

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Renee Baribeau: has everything to do with us. It's not about…

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Renee Baribeau: Getting more information around this, but you're right, it's about

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Renee Baribeau: How do we embody that, that, that, you know, that whale is me?

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Renee Baribeau: That, that whale who didn't get fed is my, is my community, is my neighbor, is my self.

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Renee Baribeau: And… you know, I think…

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Renee Baribeau: that I know that, you know, one of the reasons this woman told me she'd come back was to do that kind of prayer from here.

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Renee Baribeau: She didn't really know why, but she was called back here to hold that kind of anchor for the land.

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Renee Baribeau: you know, we forget that part when we're so busy out there. And, you know, I know I can, like…

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Renee Baribeau: how do I get students? How do I get students? Well, you know, how do I tend to the corn that's growing in my yard instead, and have a relationship to the plants?

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Renee Baribeau: And I think that that consuming time has stopped, and it's really a cry for relationship.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, I think you said that perfectly, Renee, really perfectly. It's all about relationship, and we're just so used to everything being from a mental state, and from speaking our native language.

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Sandra Ingerman: And nature doesn't speak our native language, so where do we have to drop into inside of ourselves? I know that, for years now, since the pandemic, everybody's been in nervous system programs, and somatic work is…

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Sandra Ingerman: You know, you go online, and every organization is putting on a hundred somatic workshops at the same time. And somatic work is really important, but

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Sandra Ingerman: We… it's not just about ourselves, it's about getting embodied enough so that

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Sandra Ingerman: We can actually communicate from our bodies.

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Sandra Ingerman: to the nature spirits, and then we have a relationship, and then we have a connection. And then, who knows what happens when that connection has been established, because we haven't done it yet.

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Renee Baribeau: Or consistently haven't done it, for sure.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, so what kind of positive changes happen when a whole shamanic community starts moving into that level of embodied connection?

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Renee Baribeau: this morning, I was feeling a little disconnected, and I had to run somewhere before we got onto our podcast, and I was coming back, and I was there like.

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Renee Baribeau: walk down to the beach, Renee. You know, there's a beach road through the forest, and…

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Renee Baribeau: And just entering into that space where these trees have been there for hundreds of years holding this hillside.

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Renee Baribeau: you know, with the birds, and I met this woman.

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Renee Baribeau: And she said, oh, I have this, this app.

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Renee Baribeau: I think it's called the Merlin app.

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Renee Baribeau: And she said, I've just been sitting here after my run, and, you know, I've heard 6, 7 different bird songs. And I'm thinking, like, wow, we even… we even have tools that can help us to become more aware, because it could either take you away.

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Renee Baribeau: Or I'm thinking, like, wow, I never sat to listen to all the

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Renee Baribeau: You know, differentiate between one birdsong to the next.

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Renee Baribeau: What an interesting… place that I could have that experience, too.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, Woods has a Merlin app, and we'll be out somewhere, and he'll go, oh, that's a Chickadee, oh, that's Titmouse, oh, that's a Pine Siskin, and it does, it gives you… it gives you a different relationship.

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Sandra Ingerman: You know, shamans of old, they already knew that, they didn't know that.

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Sandra Ingerman: And I think that we're gonna return to that place, but there's bridges. You know, in life, there's always bridges to another state of consciousness.

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Sandra Ingerman: So, first we learn the songs through an app, and then we put the app down and go, well, I've used my app enough, can I go out there now and relate to a bird and actually, identify their song, because I've listened to it on an app enough?

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Sandra Ingerman: And I used to be a great whistler, and everybody always used to ask me where I bought my whistles from, and I used to say I got my whistle from God.

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Sandra Ingerman: I mean, I really had until my nervous system crashed. I just had this unbelievable whistle. And I still can do it outside. I go out, and when birds start singing, I start whistling to them.

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Sandra Ingerman: And we can go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth for half an hour.

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Sandra Ingerman: they respond to me, and then I respond to them. It's like, who… what is this song? I don't know this song, but I'm gonna respond to it. That's what the birds are doing.

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Sandra Ingerman: And it just… it gives you a different relationship. I'm not talking mentally to them. I respond to their song, and I whistle back.

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Sandra Ingerman: And that does put you into a more embodied place.

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Renee Baribeau: Yeah, it reminds me, I was yelling at the cat for meowing this morning. Maybe she was telling me something important, and I just wasn't listening.

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Renee Baribeau: You know, instead of, like, that. So, essentially, what we're saying is that it's important to have that direct revelation, and the way that you get there is through your embodied practices.

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Renee Baribeau: And in order to have an embodied practice, that means you have to slow down to notice it, like me driving up the road, stop in the car.

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Renee Baribeau: taking that time… yeah, I have time before I meet with Sandra, to walk down the road and meet the woman who teaches me the bird song.

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Renee Baribeau: And, you know, she told me she can fake the Raven song, and the, you know, Merlin thinks she's the Raven.

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Sandra Ingerman: You know…

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Renee Baribeau: But she listens, because if you're not even listening, you're not even paying attention. And I love, you know, walking. The thing that I've been doing in the Shift Network class that I really love, and, you know, this is a…

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Renee Baribeau: I'm… audio, so you can't see it, but I've been making prayer flags every week.

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Renee Baribeau: And, you know, because they're… it's in a way of embodying, wow, I just did this south work. I put it on a prayer flag, and when I'm done, I'm gonna hang them all out, so I reinforce this for myself, that this is what I'm having an experience with.

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Renee Baribeau: Because it's in these small baby steps that we get back. You know, like Sandra said, we're walking over a bridge. Well, I think it's a suspension bridge. And I think… I think that you better keep walking, because, you know.

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Renee Baribeau: One side could drop out. So, you're gonna need these tools.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, and it's more than… it's more than collecting information for your mind.

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Sandra Ingerman: It's… it's really… we've been… we've been in an information age.

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Sandra Ingerman: how much information can I collect? How much knowledge can I connect? And now we're at a place of how much can my spirit evolve?

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Sandra Ingerman: So that I can move into a deeper connection with all of life.

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Sandra Ingerman: And that is a portal into another dimension that takes us out of the chaos of the collective that we're in right now.

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Renee Baribeau: And…

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Renee Baribeau: Lo and behold, we need that. The other day, I posted something on Facebook, and somebody said to me, could you take a break from the news for a couple of days?

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Renee Baribeau: And I thought, Wow, Daniel, that is an excellent idea.

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Renee Baribeau: It's really hard, though, because the New York Times, they'll send you 5 things if you open one, and, you know, then there's the, you know, the other side that sends you all of their stuff, and they're like, well.

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Renee Baribeau: Where is the truth?

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Renee Baribeau: Where is the truth? But the truth is always, well, I watered the garden, and my cucumber's growing.

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Sandra Ingerman: Right.

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Renee Baribeau: I like that truth the best.

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Sandra Ingerman: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, and I think,

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Sandra Ingerman: I think what people really, and I think a lot of people who are listening to this show already know it.

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Sandra Ingerman: We're all creating our own dimensions of reality right now. There are populations of people who… really young people who have no idea what's going on in the planet right now. They have gotten information to just get out into the woods, create their life, build houses.

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Sandra Ingerman: That are sola, off the grid, and then you've got people who are really deep into their spiritual practices, and meditating, and journeying, and…

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Sandra Ingerman: and actually being able to move into different portals of dimensions of reality that's more filled with unity and love, and then you have people who are stuck reading the news. I'm oversimplifying things at the moment, but you see these particular categories where

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Sandra Ingerman: People are now choosing the life they want to live, and you have to choose how much you want to get stuck in the muck of what's happening, and it is a reality. People are dying of starvation. People

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Sandra Ingerman: are having really hard times right now, so that is a reality. And then…

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Sandra Ingerman: for each person, for ourselves, we have to decide what level of reality do I want to be living in right now.

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Renee Baribeau: Hmm.

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Sandra Ingerman: Do I want to be stuck in that?

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Sandra Ingerman: Because I already know, spiritually.

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Sandra Ingerman: I know there's another place I can shift to. So, we all have to make that decision, too, besides

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Sandra Ingerman: more of an embodied connection with nature. As I've been sharing, and I've been sharing this for years on the Shaman's Cave, Isis keeps on saying, stop straddling worlds.

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Sandra Ingerman: You're either raising your consciousness, or you're getting stuck in what's happening, but at some point, the dimensions are gonna split.

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Sandra Ingerman: And which world are you gonna end up in, because you've been straddling so much?

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Renee Baribeau: Hmm.

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Renee Baribeau: I think that's a really good stopping point, and maybe these whales just don't want to go to the new world we're creating.

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Renee Baribeau: You know, maybe… maybe, you know, the… this world that we're creating isn't conducive to a lot of the landscape and the livestock and the people… the animals and the two-legged and the four-legged that have been here.

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Renee Baribeau: And I guess what I have to really be cognizant of is that it's not mine to judge, but it's mine to live in relationship with, and taking it back to where we started about.

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Renee Baribeau: about those elders sitting on the mountaintops and in the caves, and they… they could see the subtle changes in the wind, and I was thinking of that this morning when there was an article about the El Nino.

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Renee Baribeau: And… You know, they've been around for… since the beginning of time.

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Renee Baribeau: And are we connected enough to see, oh, there's a weather pattern that's shaping up here that's going to mean that I need to

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Renee Baribeau: raise more grain for myself so that I can get through the winter, and I think that that means us going back home and having that direct relationship with our land and our people.

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Sandra Ingerman: Yeah, and that… you came to the core of what this topic was about for me, is this is why shamanism was…

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Sandra Ingerman: Actually brought into the world was to help people learn how to find food, how to find shelter, how to connect to the land in an embodied way to survive, and here we are, we're looping back to that original place again.

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Renee Baribeau: Well, look at that. I looped us back instead of taking this farther off out of the blue here, like I can sometimes do.

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Renee Baribeau: I think we're really in harmony on this topic, and we're really loving the engagement over at the Shaman's Cave lately, or I have been, and I know you've commented a lot on people, that people are really starting to share their experiences with us, and…

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Renee Baribeau: read our books. We love that you read our books, you know, Winds of Spirit, Soul Retrieval, or any of the other 14 books that you could choose from on Sandra's reading list.

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Renee Baribeau: you know, my Oracle deck, because…

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Renee Baribeau: We have done the work, and we continue to do the work, and we continue to show up, and we really appreciate that you're showing up with us and for us.

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Sandra Ingerman: Absolutely. Yeah, we really appreciate the support, and also, this has always been true. There's a desire to try and get your healings through Facebook.

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Sandra Ingerman: And if you're really suffering, because there's a lot of people on the Shaman's Cave who do post, and they're really suffering, Facebook is not where you go for your healing. So find somebody who you can really work with, a therapist,

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Sandra Ingerman: I have, trained… I've been training teachers and practitioners for most of my, years of teaching shamanism, and I have a website, shamanicteachers.com.

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Sandra Ingerman: But a lot of people are actually asking for healing for really, really, really deep issues that cannot be touched on Facebook. So, Facebook is more for sharing, our experiences, our knowledge, our inspiration.

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Sandra Ingerman: and finding out sources for who do I go to for teaching, who do I go to for healing.

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Sandra Ingerman: But to actually ask, can somebody heal me on a Facebook post is a little tricky. So,

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Sandra Ingerman: I love where the Shaman's Cave is going, and for those of you who are dealing with some really deep issues, ask for referrals for help.

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Sandra Ingerman: Because there is a lot of help out there, and we really want to help people who need the help right now, and there is a lot of help out there.

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Sandra Ingerman: But, like you, Renee, I'm really enjoying, Shaman's K Facebook page right now. People are sharing. So, thank you, everyone. Thank you for your support.

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Sandra Ingerman: Thank you for your love, and let's all come together from a place of unity, and that will be a bridge to create the changes we're looking for.

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Renee Baribeau: We'll see you soon.