Ep235. Part Four – Why Conscious Relationships Don’t Require Working on the Relationship (with Angie).

In this episode, Angie and Mike dive into a powerful reframe: the right relationship doesn’t require force, sacrifice, or constant effort—it requires self-responsibility. They unpack how personal accountability, emotional regulation, and conscious standards transformed their marriage from toxic and survival-based into a grounded, sovereign partnership. This episode is raw, playful, and deeply reflective, revealing how conscious relationships grow when each person commits to their own inner work.

Key Takeaways

1. Relationships Don’t Require Work—They Require Self-Responsibility
When each person owns their triggers and emotions, the relationship stabilizes and deepens naturally.

2. Standards vs. Conditions Shape Relationship Health
Conditions come from preferences, while standards define the non-negotiables that create safety and trust.

3. Triggers Are Gateways to Growth
Triggers reveal what’s already inside your nervous system and invite personal evolution.

4. Conscious Love Is Open-Handed, Not Controlling
True love allows partners to evolve freely without manipulation, guilt, or fear-based attachment.

5. Growth Must Be Mutual to Sustain Connection
When both partners evolve together, the relationship expands; when only one grows, conflict or separation becomes inevitable.

Notable Quotes

• “Relationships don’t require work. They require self-responsibility.”
• “You complete yourself. Together, you form a powerful alliance.”
• “Conditions come from preferences. Standards define what you never fall below.”
• “Triggers don’t create emotion—they reveal what’s already inside you.”
• “Real love is open-handed. I want for you what you want for you, even if that doesn’t include me.”

Call to Action

If this episode resonates, this is the work explored in Inner World, Outer World. The book dives into how your inner nervous system shapes your relationships, wealth, and reality—and how shifting your inner world transforms everything outside of you.

Get your copy of Inner World, Outer World here, and begin the work that turns relationships from survival-based to conscious, grounded, and sovereign.

👥 Message Mike or Angie Directly
mike@innerwealthglobal.com angie@innerwealthglobal.com

Music Credit: "What's Left of Me" by Wes Hoffman & Friends

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Transcript

Unbreakable Theme And Workshop

SPEAKER_00 0:12

I might get the lobby authentic and a lot of who you really are. You'll get excited just to wait. I'll help you create real wealth extent freedom from the inside out. Welcome to the Interwealth Podcast, where we learn and choose to live inspired each and every day. And all the things.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

All the things. So this week we are discussing um why relationships, in our opinion, don't really require work.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

The right relationships.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

That you're not forcing together.

unknown 1:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Don't require work. No, no, it I think it it's it's a great topic. And me and you just see this differently than a lot of people.

Do Great Relationships Require Work

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah, and and that's the this this one might grate some people around the edges because of you know it's gonna seem very um that's very Pollyanna-ish, right? And then and uh it's gonna ruffle some feathers, but let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

We're ready to ruffle them. And and look, really quick before we get started, um so so we call we call this episode unbreakable, all right. And I just announced uh a week ago that our our workshop coming up on March 6th and 7th, it right outside of St. Louis is called Unbreakable. And and it's to understand um how to stay steady and powerful internally in a world where circumstances and there's cycles and seasons and there's highs and lows and ups and downs, and make sure that you're not you're not going up when when your circumstances are and going down when the circumstances are. So it's about becoming unbreakable. And I think that says a lot for you know, that's gonna play a lot into this episode today, right? But what I want to share is Angie was nervous as hell to to start this podcast episode because she's never done that before. But that is part of becoming unbreakable is realizing and stepping into uncomfortable circumstances and becoming comfortable in them.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah, we might have to take that clip and uh put that as an outtake somewhere because it's on video. It was recorded. Which one?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

When I was ignored, I said, I said, do you want to start this one? She said, nope. So I'm proud of her. And yeah, and every episode that we've done, you've gotten better and better at just being comfortable in front of the camera. You know, I'm I'm not saying I love being in front of the camera.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

You just love talking to yourself.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

I love talking, period. So it and that comes easily and naturally for me. But you know, I I see the light and you know, on on the on the recorder, and and I'm just ready to go. I can speak to that light where Angie she needs to speak to something.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

I need to I need to converse. I need I need some feedback. I need I need this to be a collaboration.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I don't know if you do need the feedback because the the cats don't really respond when you when you talk to them endlessly and they don't respond to you, they just look at you in slow blank sometimes, but they don't really give you feedback.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

They purr and make biscuits there. That's feedback.

Self-Responsibility Over Forcing Change

SPEAKER_00 3:37

But you talk to them more than anybody else. But but uh look, today we're gonna dive into this is a great, great topic. And to Andy's point, we it is gonna be it is gonna grate on on some folks because there's this understanding that marriage is hard, and marriage requires constant work, and it requires, you know, I don't know, it effort, force, force, and you try to it's it's almost like it the the world conditions us that relationships, and this is the this is the place that I used to live, it that relationships naturally gravitate away from each other, people gravitate naturally away from each other, and you gotta constantly push them back together, right? And I think that's the force that you just talked about. But you know, or can you become the people? Can you become the versions of yourselves that don't naturally gravitate away from each other? And I think that's what you and I have done is we've built this bond where it's not uh our our our unity and our unification isn't conditional, so there's not these this natural evolution away from each other, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:51

I mean it's it's I think that so many people feel like a relationship should be like Mike and Angie, and it's Mike and Angie, and then there's Mike and Angie, right? And I think some people try and force that, like becoming one. There's a you complete me, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Right, yeah. No, it's it's all bullshit. And and look, right, I made a joke today that uh I was upstairs in the kitchen with our daughter, and I said, I said, your your mom, your mom just said that she doesn't love me and she wants to get a divorce. And Katie said, she she said, what? I said, well, that's not actually what she said. She said is that she's going to go out and have a drink with her friend during our time to go out. So essentially what she was saying is, I don't love you anymore. And I want to divorce.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Well, she said I was going, she said I'm going out to have a drink with Katie Chatfield tonight.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

What I heard was that she doesn't look like a heard was she said I'm going to go out and have a drink, but what I heard was I don't love you anymore. But but it's that one uh in it the the complete person, complete person, and then this this greater package that shows up when you're together and there's no completing each other. It's up to each individual to complete themselves. And then when you come together, you're a powerful alliance, yeah. Not not trying to fill an empty bucket.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah, it's like you're if you're you're looking for someone else to fill a need within you, and you know, the the most the more powerful choice to make there is healing that that piece of you or uh filling that hole yourself. And I'm not and this is not obviously relationships are important, your bond is important, and it there is it's just it's just not work. I don't even know what I mean. Before we were when we were talking about before we record, I always go through and think about what the episode's about. I'm like, so I was really going through today, okay, what's a better word for work? Because it relationships require something, but it's not work, it's not effort, it's not force.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

And I just can't find the word for not sacrifice, not sacrifice, not compromise, no, not compromising yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

There, oh yeah, because you gotta, we we compromise on a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Yeah, we we compromise but they're but but it they're inconsequential things. It's not about our our sovereignty and and our you know, our our our purpose and things like that. It's little things like, and I make a joke that when we lived in Portland, I and we were gonna move, I wanted hot weather and tropical climate, and Angie wanted four seasons, so we compromised, we got four seasons, right? So that's we couldn't both have at that moment, we couldn't both have what we wanted. So something had to give, and we had to do what kind of was best for our family. Yeah, but the point being is I didn't compromise myself in that. I maybe, maybe a preference, yes, uh, and we're gonna talk about that next week, right? In in our episode on preferences, yeah, preferences, uh puncture puncture peace, and how you know the the fewer preferences you can have about each other or in the world, that the more peacefully you'll live. But the the point is, is we don't compromise ourselves and our uniqueness.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah. I just got the word relationships don't require work, they require self-responsibility and personal responsibility and personal accountability. Yeah. That's to me, that's the that's the piece where when we filled that in, that's where things really shifted, where it was you went to your corner to deal with your shit. I went to my corner to deal with my shit. And then we came back in the middle and we said, okay, well, I worked on all this this shit. Is this gonna work? And that's when we decided, okay, let's let's keep this going, let's give this another shot.

When Life Collapsed And Growth Began

SPEAKER_00 8:40

For sure. And and going back to let let's let's tee this thing up because this came about because everything in our life, you know, we had corporate income and and we had, you know, we have a beautiful house that more than I ever thought I would have. Um, you know, we had a a beautiful material lifestyle, uh, and I was working freaking 12 hours a day. And and you know, the weekends I was always on my laptop in terms of you know being connected to the plant. And the point, the point is, is everything we were checking out and escaping life. We're drinking a lot, you know, in terms of we still do have drinks, but we don't like we don't kill ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Um we you know, we were like our friend Brian says, we learned to count.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, we learned to count. There you go. We learned to count. But uh yeah, I like that. That's a nice reference. We'll tell them that we we said that. But the the point being is our life was miserable and and it was it it it lacked meaning. Our life really lacked meaning and it lacked purpose and it lacked you know vision. It it lacked a lot, and everything fell apart. And then in um in in March on March 18th of 2016, I lost my job. My I got fired twice in about 20 months. I lost my job, and then you know, I tried to get back into corporate and started started interviewing, but nobody would have me. And that's when I said, told Angie, I said, I'm gonna start a business. She said, The fuck you are.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

I said, No, you need to go find another job. We need, we talked about this before. You need 401k vacation, you want you go to work Monday to Friday, 95, 40 hours a week.

Healthy Vs Unhealthy Compromise

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Yeah, and she and she just she she she was scared and she was trying to get me to eliminate the fear, and we're gonna come back to that in a little bit. She was scared and she was trying to to manipulate and control me to so that she could handle her fear. And she she used me as her pawn to manage emotions in her body. And when that's what a lot of relationship struggle and strife is about. It's about trying to get the other person to manage the emotions inside of your body. You need them to do something or be some some do something different, be something different, choose something different so that you can feel okay. And it's a it's very manipulative and it's a very toxic form of relationship, and it's codependent, right? You often have somebody say, uh, there, there's a there's my my my spouse is toxic or my partner is toxic, and there's there's never one toxic person in a toxic relationship. Yeah, and we were both. I was trying to get her to rearrange feelings and emotions in my body, and she was getting, you know, and preferences, and she was using me to try to do the same. And that it was just all manipulative and control, controlling, narcissistic and codependent. We flip-flop back and forth in those states. It wasn't one person, and oftentimes I'll have somebody like there was somebody at a workshop one time that you know they were playing the role of victim, and they they broadcast all the blame on the spouse and and calling him a narcissist. And what she failed to realize is when we're in a relationship like that, we go in and out of narcissism and codependence, right? Narcissist and martyr to go back and forth in that because when the when the pain starts to accumulate, that's when you flip the script and become the narcissist, and now you're attacking, right? But either way, and because the resentment uh fills up and overflows, but we got to such a a brutal place with that when I started decided I was gonna start my business. She said no. And I started the spiritual journey. I started doing some some evolutionary growth, and I started really, really growing and feeling better about my life and feeling better about myself. And uh she was she wasn't moving, she wasn't doing anything, and I and I filed for divorce. And that was just a few months after my uh I started the journey. And uh, and we agreed after after some really deep, long talks about who where we had been and what really happened over the past 15 years. Um, we decided to go like back to the drawing board to try to figure out how to grow together. And we just kept recommitting to the path ahead. We, you know, we we had we stumbles, we had falls, we had relapses, we had arguments, we had things, but we just kept recommitting to the bond and to the unity.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

And well, that's a good example of the things of the the healthy compromise versus unhealthy compromise, right? You didn't compromise that that that dream that you had. And even though I was I I was very against it, you didn't compromise yourself in that moment. So I think that's a good example of where where it's healthy compromise versus unhealthy compromise.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah, and and so something healthy compromise. I I want, you know, I I want freaking chicken parm for dinner, and you want whatever, and and we we try to hash out who you know who gets their preference met. That's that's healthy compromise. Those are those are the meaningless things of life. And but those are the things that we used to take super, super seriously.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Seriously, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

And and the the unhealthy compromise is when you are literally disavowing yourself of yourself, it's when you're losing your sovereignty, it's when you're losing your your uniqueness, your authenticity, you're giving up your dream, you're sacrificing yourself, you're you're putting yourself in harm's way for the other person, or you're you're you're unfulfillable so the other person can be fulfilled or feel safe. This is an unhealthy compromise, and this is when you have to force the relationship to work. You you mentioned you said a quote one time, and it was in our mastermind.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

And I remember when you said it to me first here, and then we took it on the mastermind call because it was absolutely fucking brilliant. Okay. And it was the most up to that point, it was the most profound thing that you had ever said, like with with the the wisdom you were gaining. And when you said it, I just I was just like, Do you remember what that was? The first one that you really came up with.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Okay. Was it the manipulation ship?

SPEAKER_00 14:52

No, no, it was all about standards.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Oh, standards versus conditions. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

I wasn't sure which one you were picking there. It was it because I like my manipulation ship too.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

But that but that's that's part of that, right? And you can you can believe that in talk about the difference between standards and conditions.

Standards Not Conditions

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Well, you have a better definition for standards now than I do, the way when I initially first said it. So I'm gonna let you speak on the standards. The conditions are the things that um that you you try and make your your partner do to make you feel better. So I one of the big examples that I like to use is I'm a little bit kind of I like my kitchen counters always clean and and it's my I like my kitchen clean. I like cleaning my kitchen. Like I have so I get so much joy in that. And um, you know, even when we're on retreats, uh it drives people crazy at the retreats because I'm constantly cleaning the kitchens and yeah, it's lovely in the kitchen. Well, you know, for so many years, I would demand that you keep the kitchen clean too. Like your the crumbs on the counter, right? Like might clean up the damn crumbs. Well, because if you clean up the crumbs and I feel better about the kitchen and I feel better about myself. And the reality was you just didn't give a shit about the damn crumbs. The crumbs didn't bother you. And just, and then one example of yours was me leaving my my robe in the bathroom or my clothes in the bathroom or whatever drove you crazy. And he used to always, Angie, get your shit out of the bathroom. And it was like, I just it doesn't bother me. Like it just doesn't bother me. So the things that we we try and require our significant other to do these things because you know, clean kitchen makes me happy. So I'm asking you to do something that you don't give a crap about to keep make me happy.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

And there are so many of those little things, if you look at them on a daily basis, where we we get angry when keys are left on the counter or the shoe, this is my my girl specifically. When when our daughter Megan comes home from college, shoes are in the kitchen, underneath of the right by the the kitchen island, keys are on the on the island, and it's like I used to yell at them, put your stuff away. Now it's no, I put it away because she just doesn't care that the shoes and the keys are there. So this does this goes even beyond its relationship.

Let Others Voluntarily Evolve

SPEAKER_00 17:21

So so conditions are a lot based on our preferences, right? So it's not about it's not about what we need to have happen, it's just what we prefer to have happen. Like uh I I love organization and I I feel peaceful when everything's organized. The crumbs don't don't disrupt my peace, but having things out of place, right? And and that marine in me, a place for everything and everything in its place, that that marine in me is still still wants everything to be where it should be, where really it's where I'd prefer it to be. Right, right. Which goes back to preferences and preferences puncture piece. But the point being is over time I've let go of a lot of that. Now things that are disorganized or unorganized, they don't disrupt my peace because I've let go of the preference for that. I've I chose the peace and the sanctity of my relationship over having things where I want. Because if I can only have one of those, and oftentimes I can, I can only have one of those, right? And we say, Well, you you can have all of it. Well, you're you're married for a reason, and your your partner's for a reason, and they're here to trigger you into peace, right? Um, and if you can only have one, I prefer peace, and I don't want anything to disrupt my peace. So that means I get to I get to let go of my preference in that situation. And over time, my nervous system has rearranged itself, so I feel peaceful in disorganization. So I get to have it all, but it required me letting go of my preferences because I I want harmony and peace and love and and a unification of with you more than anything else. Yeah, more than anything else. So, but uh yeah, it's just it's just been a cool evolution. So those are conditions, conditions are just based on our preferences. But look, and this is where we went wrong in in some cases in our marriage, is standards is about the bigger elements of the bond. The the standards are about what you uh you don't fall below standards, okay? Yeah, that's why I said you had a better way to describe this than I think you get somebody to try to live up to your conditions, but you standards are meant to never fall below them. And we have in our relationship, so uh the example of a standard is no divorce. Pretty simple. We're we're bonded, that's it. That's a standard, um fidelity, okay. So we used to there was been infidelity in our relationship both ways and there were thousands and thousands throughout the the war. The word was used every day. The word was used many times every single day. Um respect.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Support.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Support. Uh empowering, being empowering for each other, being each other's cheerleader. Um I'm I'm getting emotional just talking about this. Just love, letting others voluntarily evolve, right? Angie is is in the process right now of becoming a higher version of herself. I don't get a vote in what that higher version is. But my my ownership, what I own and what I control is a commitment to her to fall in love with the next version of who she's becoming. I don't know who that who that is. I don't know what she looks like. I don't know what that's the what that's going to be about. But she is here to evolve into a higher level and a higher octave of herself. And I am here to, I am here to see it and witness it all.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

And vice versa.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

And vice versa. And to inspire her and to encourage her and to empower her to give her the tools to write the checks to do whatever it takes for her to get to the highest version. There was a time where Angie went through um an she she signed up for an MLM network marketing. She went through pound training with drumsticks and rock music.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

It's an exercise modality. Exercise fitness.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Um there were oils, essential oils. Okay. There was protein shakes. There was protein shakes. There were there's um a real estate license.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Well, yeah, which I yes, I am currently a licensed realtor in State of Missouri.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

That's right. So there were all these things from your NLP training?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

NLP training Reiki, Reiki certification.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

All of it, yeah. So all the things trying to figure out who what Angie is about. She had to taste all these things and experience all these things. And I just kept stroking the check. Like, get it, girl, get it, get after it. No guilt, no shame, no regret, no, no, nothing. Just fucking have at it. Let's go. Like, like whatever it takes to become the higher version. I just and I I'm metaphorically me stroking the check. It's her money just as much as mine, and I don't control anything. But the point is, it's just being the support mechanism and the empowerment partner for whatever she's becoming. Just but it's not my job to say no, you can't do that or you shouldn't do that. If she feels it, then it's it's we gotta go, we gotta go get it.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Yeah, and I mean, and even and another story there is for years I knew that this was the this he and I working together in this capacity was really going to be powerful work. And I said that years ago and I brought it up to him, and he he but he rejected it. And no, we this is, you know, I don't want to be a relationship counselor. I'm like, no, I'm not saying relationship counseling because obviously we're not therapists, we're not licensed counselors, but teaching from what we've learned and what we've been through and where we are. And that's all this is. And I just want to reiterate that this is we are not counselors, we are not therapists. We are literally just speaking from our experiences and how we re how we rebuilt something that was just absolutely toxic. And now we have a solid foundation. But for years I I had said that this this was this was the next this was the iteration of us. And he said no. And I had to sit there and watch him go through 50 different things and just still hey, same thing, high five.

Dropping The Five Weapons Of The Weak

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Because the way the way I operate, and everybody operates differently until I'm clear, I I I can't move. Yeah. Until I'm clear about what it looks like and what it's about, and it there's just a level of clarity that I that I require in order to commit. Yeah. But once I commit, I'm all in. But that clarity ultimately leads to the commitment. But I need the clarity first, right? The creation process, clarity, certainty, and commitment. And until I have clarity, there's nothing I can do. But Angie's write a lot, a lot about a lot of things that I'm unclear about. And I I can't, I can't commit. I can't, I can't commit my energy to it because that clarity hasn't sunk in. But it might be, you know, I'll say no today, and then tomorrow it's like, got it, got clarity. I mean, I can't, I can't express how it feels, but you can really feel when you're clear about something. When I feel that level of clarity and I get that it's go time, then I get up from the couch and we do exactly that. And I said, Angie, we we should do a 10 parts here. She's like, fucking finally, right? Finally, like we you knucklehead. And she's right about a lot of things, but we don't move until I'm clear. And but but it's often we move in the direction of the clarity that she already had. And she's just always a little ahead of me in the clarity. So you needing to work on a relationship would be her trying to convince me that I'm that it's time when I I feel that it's not, or her try to guilt and shame me or into whatever when that's just not how we show up.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

We allow the other person to be, and that requires letting others voluntarily evolve. The standards that we've established are safety within our bonds, safety within our house. No the five weapons of the week, right? Guilt, shame, anger, threats, and blame. So we don't use those. Those used to be weapons that we used to regularly wield, and they were they were just the only weapons that we had. They were only the only tool that we had to try to feel okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

The hard the the the more brutally I hurt you, the better I can feel about myself.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Yeah. Yeah. That was guilt and shame, anger, threats, and blame. Those are five absolute weapons of the week. If if you use right now, if you're listening to this, if you're watching it, and you you use those tools, you got some cleanup to do. And I encourage you, there's something in you that needs to be resolved in order for you to not have to rely on guilt and shame, anger, threats, and blame. Right. And we we stop that war. We don't we don't guilt or shame each other or threaten each other or manipulate each other, or because all that means is I don't feel okay, and I need you to do something different for me to feel okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

We do the guilt against shaming through the pets too.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Through the pets, through the pets, they guilt and shame us. We speak through them, but we never speak as ourselves, but we speak as them, and we guilt and shame.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

I'm sorry, I couldn't hold that in.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

That was no, that's awesome. I saw you smiling, I saw you starting to crack a smile, and I was wondering what was getting ready to come out, but that's right. So so it it we we literally attack each other in a playful way.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

We literally playfully attack each other through the voice of the pets, and we have very distinct voices for the pets, and yeah, they we it's you know, well, if daddy would have any of our silly little things. This is what happens when you're empty nesters, you just make up these stupid little fun games.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

There's one time, one time I I went somewhere and I left our dog outside, and I thought I I thought I brought him in, and it was you know, it was it was it was not cold outside, it wasn't as extreme. It was the weather wasn't extreme, it was like a nice day, it was like the perfect day to leave your dog outside if you were going to. And like it there was endless guilt and shame from the dog to me.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

To you, three, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

But but it really wasn't coming from the dog, it was coming from me. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah, so that was the day we went to the we went to the fox. Megan came up from work, thank God. And yes, oh my god.

Triggers As Tools For Growth

SPEAKER_00 28:00

But but it's it's having playful, having a fun time with this and and being being playful with it. We we don't work on our relationship, we work on ourselves. And when you know, in in the mastermind, we talk a lot about semascaras and we talk about emotional cleanup. And and just you know, an episode or two ago, we were talking about the orange in a knife. And you know, when you when you have an orange in, I've got pretend I've got my orange if you're if you're listening, pretend I've got the orange in my my left hand and and the knife in my right, and I stick the knife into the orange and I wiggle it around and pull it out. What happens to the orange juice? When the orange juice comes out of the orange, did the knife create the juice? No, but the knife revealed the juice, right? The juice was already inside and the knife revealed it. So when when you feel something, it's it's something that's already in you. Though if Angie says something with with and I joke around about this, right? Where here's Mike and Angie in the past, I love you. What the fuck you mean by that? Like something that was intended with love would be taken exceptionally in a in a in a negative way. And it's because it stirred up some kind of negative emotion that you were harboring, that you were already building, that you pushed down and you were trying to escape. You didn't want to feel it. So you're not allowed to say I love you anymore. Like because I because when you when you said those words, I felt the discomfort that was already in me, and and you revealed it, and I need you to do something different so I don't feel that anymore. So now you can't say these words. And that is when the the marriage becomes work. Yes, yeah, is when now you've got all these rules that and things, mechanisms in place that I've got to do a mental checklist of all the things I can say and can't say, because if I say something, it's gonna cause emotion in you and you can't handle it, so you lash out at me. What uh what this uh work does is you go to your neutral corners, you learn how to work on yourself, then when you come back together, you don't need the person to be anything different than they are, and who they are and who they choose to be. You don't need to get them to do anything different or be anything different, because if something negatively stirs in you, you know how to deal with it. So now I can handle anything. And that's why this this episode series is called unbreakable because you learn how the emotions are going to come up, life cycles, seasons happen, everything, circumstances go up. We're right now we're in a business drought, right? We got a little, you know, a little compression in the business and it gets uncomfortable. But instead of trying to force the other person to go do something, we're like, okay, this is a there's a lesson here. There's there's something, there's something for us to work through so that when we do, when when the next cycle comes and it does start to move up, that that we don't we don't get attached to that either.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Right. Yeah, that's too. I feel like it's two when when two people go to their separate corners and work on themselves and you come back together, it just builds a solid foundation. It's two solid humans building on top of that instead of when you're so worried about navigating the emotions of the other person, there's no way you could heal yourself. And if you can't heal yourself, then you're just doing you're you're doing your soul to service because you're here to learn something, you're here to to grow and to evolve and to ascend. And if you are so busy tending to the needs and emotions of someone else, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

And that's what we did for so long.

Peace Over Preferences

SPEAKER_00 31:41

In Inner World, Outer World, my the book that was released on my birthday, August 19th, 2025. Um, in the book, I have a chapter called Spiritual Relationships. It's that you are going to be triggered in your in your relationships, in your most meaningful relationships, in your your soul-based relationships, you are going to be triggered. Yeah. And the the unconscious way of navigating that is to try to get the person to not trigger you. But in a conscious relationship, you use those triggers as as evolutionary mechanisms. Now I get to become a higher version. You just triggered, you said these words, I feel this emotion. Now I get to drill, right? Drop into my body, recognize what's in there, inquire within, what listen to it, you know, and and then let it go. And now I've just spiritually evolved. And now you don't need to do anything different or be anything different. You just triggered me into a higher and upgraded version of myself because now there's less and there's less emotion, there's less damage in the nervous system. And that's what the last episode was about. Right? All of these, all this flows together. And when you work on yourselves and you commit to working on yourselves instead of manipulating the other to be different, that's when you really, really grow into something magical and powerful and bonded and in integrity and aligned and in lockstep and committed and loyal, and you adhere to your standards and you let the conditions drop away. Because you know you recognize that the conditions no longer matter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

I and that I think that's the important part. The conditions, they they don't matter. Yeah. They just don't.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

They really don't. But but when you're in survival mode, when somebody is in a nervous system state of survival mode and don't know how, we call it emotional intelligence, right? I do some emotional uh intelligence leadership training, and really that that's all this is is the nervous system work and the letting go and recognizing, becoming aware of what's happening inside and the triggers and how to navigate that. Once you become competent, is the right word. Once you become competent at navigating in inner turmoil, everything else gets easier and the conditions of life start to fall away. But the and the standards amplify.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Right. Oh, 100%. The standards are. I can agree with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

And and what what is that done? Is our is our marriage perfect? No. No. Do we do we still have little pew like like little little skirmishes? Yes. Do we still get frustrated with each other?

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

I don't get frustrated with Angie, but she gets frustrated with me. Yes. Do we still do we still step on each other's toes every once in a while? Heck yeah. Do we still does Angie still hate hearing me talk so much? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Not hearing you talk so much. So when I come downstairs first thing in the morning, it's like, oh, read this, read this, read this. Oh my gosh, give me 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

I'm a creative. I I got I create. That's what I do. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

No, but those, those, you know, but what we don't do anymore is there is no more threats of divorce. We don't sleep in separate rooms. We don't not speak for two weeks. We don't the five weapons of the week. We none none of that anymore. Everything is everything is so much more toned down because we take everything that the other does and we we were able to see that okay, you really didn't intend to, there was there was no there was no bad intention there. You know, and and I know especially for me, because I'll I'll get in that space where you'll say something, and I'm like, well, why the fuck did you have to say it that much? Like what and then I'll get in my head about it, and uh, you know, I might burst out it too quickly, but then it's like, wait a second, okay, that's not how that wasn't how it was meant.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Every day, just about every day at 5 30. Our our relationship started on a bull bar stool, but it was very toxic. Yeah, okay. And we it's no longer toxic, okay, and we enjoy sitting on a bar stool next to each other, on bar stools next to each other. Some I'd prefer to sit on one bar stool with you on my lap, but but we sit on separate bar stools and next to each other, and we enjoy that. And we go to a place here, a local, local joint. It's almost like cheers for us. Like when we walk in, everybody knows us and everybody loves us, and we get hugs from the staff, and you know, the the there's all all the regulars up there and they enjoy us, and we all, you know, if even if we're spread around the bar, by the end of the night, we're all together, and you know what I mean. Um, but anyway, the the point being is uh we where was I going with that? Holy cow.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Oh, we still we toxic. We started on a bar stool and now we still enjoy being on a bar stool.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah, but I can't remember why I was telling that story.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

We got too excited about the cheers thing. And if you're local to St. Louis, we are we hang out at Cyborg St. Peter's and we're planning on doing, we're planning on the the our little group of regulars dressing up as the Cheers characters for Halloween this year.

Evolving Together Or Growing Apart

SPEAKER_00 36:51

So I now I remember where I was going with that. You did a great job. Anyway, today Angie tells me, right? Again, I don't I don't want to rehash the same joke, but she tells me, hey, I'm going to I'm going to have to go have a drink with Katie Chaffield at 5 30. And old Mike would have taken that very harshly and and rudely and critically and been offended, right? I would have got my I would have got my butt hurt because you were, you know, that our we go almost every day, and now you're doing something without me. But the point being is it's it's almost like our relationship has evolved into that Pete Davidson character on SNL. Oh yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm going to I'm going to get a drink, okay? It's like it's like that's what our relationship is. It's like we don't fight anything, we don't challenge each other in those ways. And and if somebody makes a decision and they think this is best for them, then okay, and then we'll go tomorrow. I mean, it's it's literally there's no there's not that level of resistance and conflict, and we're not always trying to get our needs or wants met or our preferences met.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Can you can you tell me that you're going to have a drink with a friend like I am not?

SPEAKER_00 38:09

I am not. That opportunity came up, that opportunity came up last week, and I decided not to go because I love my bride more than I love being there. And I love being there, but I love my bride more.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

She's definitely ill. I was just trying to get you to go.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

She always wants me out of the house. And I am I am a homebody. I freaking love being at home and with her when we we we're either here or it's iberg.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

No, it's that's that's it's great. We we have we have fun. We have fun. We can we can laugh and and joke and have fun with these things now. In the past, we couldn't have because that's that's a big, a big, big joke in the house. Is Mike doesn't go anywhere. He without really it's us or or no with with Brian Schroeder on your Sunday morning. Yep. And the times where he's not here are the times where I can throw on my absolute trash TV and and you know not worry about judgment, even though there is none. That's all me. That's not for sure, that's totally a me thing, but it's like, hell yeah, I can watch and not have to worry about anything or anyone judging what trash I watch.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

You should probably drill into that into that guilt or that what a judgment that you feel because it's not there. I don't I don't give a fuck what you watch. Right. And oftentimes when she's I want her to watch television. I I do. I want and and this is a good point. The way Mike used to show up, Mike and Angie used to show up is if I didn't like it, I would belittle it and I would heckle it and I would judge it. If I didn't like it, I thought it was stupid, and I I I would try to convince you you should think it's stupid too. And I would belittle and heckle and tear it down. And Angie's still living in the energy of that, in her inner nervous system, and still braced for that and still expecting that. And I'm like, there's none of that coming from me. All you got to do is say, Hey, I want to watch a show and I'll be in the other. Room in the sitting room because I'm just as happy in the sitting room as I am in the living room.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Yeah. And I know that. I do. It's but and it is something though that you know could it if if I choose to work on it? It's not that, again, it's not that important right now because I know it's just a me thing. It's not a me thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

But this is this is how you overcome the need to work harder on your relationship is the absolute personal responsibility and the ownership of what's triggering you. Me being home is not triggering you.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

And I don't blame you for I don't blame you that, oh, I don't ever get to watch my shows. None of that doesn't happen. I know it's a me thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

The the guilt and shame of you that still rests in your and and fear of judgment, me heckling, me belittling you that hasn't happened in seven years, right? Eight years, the all of that is still still resides in your nervous system. You just haven't released it yet.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yeah, but I deserved the heckling over my jersey shore obsession back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

So I you didn't you didn't deserve the heckling over anything, and you didn't deserve someone in your life that would that would heckle you for things that you preferred at that time. The point being is you were doing the best you could, and I was doing the best I can. They were just not very good. Yeah. All right. And today, if Angie wants, she can start to do the work of clearing out all of that from her nervous system, and she will be able to have her needs met without any any fear of judgment, without any guilt or shame. It it would be very simple, but that's work she has to do. There's nothing I can do except provide the space for her to do that and step into it and encourage her to do that. Because I don't want her to hurt or be uncomfortable or to hold herself back from me in any way, shape, or form. And one of the I just made a post today about paradoxes. I am a very, very loyal person, okay? But there comes a time in some relationships, all relationships are either a reason, a season, or a lifetime. Okay. And I feel that I know I have one lifetime commitment, one lifetime relationship. I I hope that there's two, right? But never know what's gonna happen with Brian. He might just say, hey, Sedona's calling me and leave me to fuck alone. Who knows? But there's a lot of other people in my life that are either in a reason or a season of my lifetime, and and I or a reason or season, I know that, and I am loyal to a fault. Not no, I am loyal to everyone, but at some point when something expires, I am I am willing to let them go. And even if Angie walked down the stairs tomorrow and seriously said, Mike, I I've rethought things and I'm out, I would let her go. Let her go. And it I want for you, and uh one of my my favorite phrases that I've I've kind of coined is I want for you what you want for you so much, even if that doesn't include me.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah, well, I'm not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

I know you're not, but the point is, is I'm I'm loyal and I'm committed, but I'm also willing to let everybody go because this, and and for all of you that are watching, you can see it. But for all of you who who aren't watching, I have my left hand palm up, and I have my right hand, closed fist, okay, down. So it's like I have a fist with my right hand and open palm. And the closed fist is what people, most people think is a relationship. I need to feel okay. So you can't go anywhere. And a real relationship and real love is open-fisted, open palm that I love you so much and I want for you whatever you want for yourself, even if that doesn't include me. And that's love, letting others voluntarily evolve. The open-handed is love. So if someone's trying to exit my life, I'm gonna encourage them to do that because I'm not just in it for me, I'm in it for all of us, right? But when something's on the same right, when something's expired for me, I'm I'm done. Yeah, right. And I won't be pulled back in or manipulated back in. In summary, um, we don't really work on the relationship. We don't have team strategy meetings and we don't talk about grievances and air the grievances and talk about we don't talk about what the person needs to be for us or who the person needs to be or who the person needs to become, or we don't uh the the five love languages used toxically means you've got to do something different than than is your normal so that I can be okay and feel loved. And we don't use the love languages in that in that way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Not in that way. No, we no, it's we we'll talk about that in another we said we'll talk about that in another episode because there is a way to use them in a non-toxic way.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

There's certainly a way to use them, and they're valuable to understand somebody's love language, but it's using it to understand how to receive their love instead of how to fork how to force them to love you in a certain way. Then then it's that force for to allow you to receive love in the way that they most naturally give it, then to get them to scratch your love language. One is manipulative, one is very loving. Yes, right? Let others voluntarily evolve, let them be authentic, let them be themselves, work on yourself. And if you work on yourselves in the marriage, you'll never need to work on a marriage. One more thing before we we we kind of intro next week's we have couples in our mastermind. And there's also um individuals in the mastermind. And the reason we love having couples in our mastermind is because if both of you aren't growing, then you're growing apart. If one person's growing and the other's not, if one person's on the journey and the other's not, it's just a matter of time. It's just a matter of time. And sometimes with the singles in our relationship or in our mastermind, their their relationships begin to fracture and get a little more like a little more rocky because they're doing some work on themselves, but their partner's not. And on the like the law of attraction is real, where when Angie and I were both in a toxic, toxic conditions, on a scale of one to ten, we were both ones or zero to ten, we were both ones because like like attracts like. When I started doing the evolutionary work and this and and this this nervous system work and and just the consciousness work, my my not better or worse, there's no better than than anybody else, but I started naturally evolving up up the scales of consciousness and up the level of consciousness. And Angie was staying stuck. And as that gap widens, the relationship gets worse and worse and more dramatic and more conflict-infused and and more, it's just hard to be around each other.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Yeah, well, because what what was happening for us specifically was I was not, I was not doing the work. I wasn't raising myself up, so I was trying to pull you down and you were not doing it. So it was the only the natural evolution there was either for me to come up a level and to keep to start doing the work and and elevating myself, or we were gonna we were gonna part. That's the only that those were the only things that were gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Three choices when when that gap starts to build, three choices. This this person, the person on the bottom tries to pull the uh the person evolving back down, which is exactly what you just stated. The person up top naturally pulls the person up and or they they split because they can't stand the the uh the discord and and the the discomfort of that gap. Okay. That is why it's so important to do this work together, and that's what conscious relationships are about. That's what spiritual relationships are about. It's both doing both people constantly doing the work to raise their level of consciousness and awareness. And uh, if you do that, you don't have to work on the marriage, you don't have to work on the relationship, okay? Was that did you have one?

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Yeah, yes, absolutely.

Next Topic: Preferences Puncture Peace

SPEAKER_00 48:32

I love these things, I love doing this with you uh and sitting next to you. So next week is gonna be about how preferences puncture a piece. Sometimes in relationships, you you kind of gotta let your preferences go. Right? It's just kind of a a messy, a messy topic. Um, but if you value the relationship more than your preferences, then you're gonna have a really harmonious relationship. But we're not talking about coming from sacrifice.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

But if you value your relationship over your preferences, you'll let your preferences go because they're just preferences. They're not needs, they're just preferences. If you value your preferences over your relationship, then it's just a matter of time before it's gonna dissolve. But if you if you really rest inside of the beauty of evolutionary growth, of doing the work on yourself, of letting go of your preferences, I think you'll find that your preferences are gonna be met even more, not less.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

And next week is that's that's where we'll really be able to hit the uh the toxicity of the love languages within this. So that's yeah, it's gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

But that's preferences, puncture peace. Guys, love you. Thanks for being on this journey. Any any last parting words? No, no, you got it?

SPEAKER_02 49:47

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Yeah, all right, guys. Next week, uh, this is this is episode four. Next week is five. We got six more coming. Stick with us. If you listen to it, subscribe, like all us and so follow us, follow us on socials, come along with us, guys. We're we're we're looking to change the world, all right? Like one uh one message, one podcast, one episode at a time. All right, love you guys. Thanks for showing up for us. If you enjoyed what you heard and you want to learn more, go to www.innerwealthglobal.com for more tools and reaching the