Hey , your internet didn't blur out when we started recording . Look at that .
Speaker 2I know , it's almost like I have my wireless mode right here beside my computer . Look at this fancy contraption .
Speaker 1Hashtag Starlink .
Speaker 2Hashtag Starlink .
Speaker 1Wait , it's wireless as in . It's not . You're still not hardwired to your computer .
Speaker 2No , I need to buy a a 250 adapter to plug into the back of this for an ethernet plug they're like apple where they they create the problem and sell you and sell you the solution yep yeah that's a , that's genius , genius marketing starling good job thanks , daddy elon out there in the stars . Hey everyone , I'm Brad from Calgary . This is Sean from Cambridge , Ontario . I'm Terry from Cornell Ontario .
Speaker 1Hey , this is Larry from Pit Metals , British Columbia , and you're listening to the Towing Life Podcast .
Speaker 2Welcome to the Towing Life Podcast , where the ditches are deep , the trucks are loaded , but the drivers are not . I am your host , tow man G . As usual , I'm joined by my co-host , friend and former co-worker , the man with very strong opinions , mr Playing Guy .
Speaker 1What is going on ? G . What is going on ?
Speaker 2It's been a day my dog is a little frustrated per se for being in here . There's a birthday party going on upstairs and all her dog friends are up there , so if she does make a bit of noise during this episode , I do apologize . I'll try to mute my mic and yell her . If she gets too bad I'll give her a spleen kick do not say that on the show .
Speaker 1Uh , it's so funny . Spleen kicks um , it's an inside , it's a personal joke from when g and I used to work together . Um , but yeah , spleen kicks definitely were efficient and effective . Yeah , no , you're right , it's been a month , but it's also been 139 episodes . So the fact that you still have yet to nail that down , or you have moments where you fumble with it is a little concerning I was going to edit it out .
Speaker 2They wouldn't even know . Now that you said that , now I got to edit that out . Now I'm going to have to edit this out . You're just making an editing nightmare for me .
Speaker 1Well , that is part of my job is to increase the workload that you have to make you earn your keep within the show .
Speaker 2Oh , thanks man , Greatly appreciated .
Speaker 1So , as you said , welcome to another episode of the Tone Life podcast . We thank you for coming back once again this week . We know that last week's episode was a late release , so we're here fresh with some new content , new things coming out and we actually have quite a bit to get into today A little bit on the US side of towing , a little bit of guarantees of payment , a little bit of some stories from my personal experience , as well as G on some topics that he did not want to talk about before the show , because he is very much a one trick pony and if he says the story once , it's not going to get any better the second time around . So he's a one shot wonder . So , before we do get into all that wonderful thing that we have planned , it is a good time to mention we always appreciate your questions , comments , concerns for the show .
Speaker 1Where do you find us ? It's pretty simple . You can head over to our Facebook page , the towing life podcast on Facebook . You can head over to our webpage at wwwtowinglifeca . You can email us directly at thetowinglife at gmailcom . And don't forget , if you're watching over on the YouTube side , be sure to hit that thumbs up . Leave your comment down below . We always appreciate the input of , you know , people that are either more opinionated than ourselves , which can be hard at times , or more experienced , less experienced , or any of the above .
Speaker 2I think now , since , since youtube is upgraded , if you're watching this on like a desktop or I think even a phone , when I say , please like this video and subscribe , the subscribe button does a fancy little dance . Oh , there you go . It's all nice and purple . There you go . I'll have to see if that worked . That's why I had to that .
Speaker 1Don't forget to like and subscribe and , you know , keep the comments and questions coming . We will put together an episode , as we go normally . When we get these comments , whether they be through YouTube , we'll put them together on a show . We'll go over some stuff . So , yeah , that is it for me . So you have some interesting questions or stories , or I don't even know what it is you want to talk about today .
Speaker 2I am just going to feed off it .
Speaker 2I'm currently just going over to the YouTube just to double check to see if we actually have any comments to talk about . But I met the older gentleman the other last week I guess it was . It was last Thursday actually Today's Sunday of time of recording , just to give you a time frame and I started talking to this older guy and he was in the towing industry for 30 years . So we we sat there , we talked and shot the ship for about two , two and a half hours about towing and bullshit and how it was in his glory days of towing . And he was like , yeah , the good old days of towing . I don't know why anyone would get into it now . And I kind of felt like saying to this guy it's like hey , we did a podcast on this not too long ago , but I didn't . I didn't , selfish or shameless , plug IRL because that's weird . Anyways .
Speaker 2So I formed this relationship with the guy . He gave me a contact information for a potential job down the road , so I wrote that down and we exchanged numbers . I didn't think anything of it . He said that he'd be talking to me later and I just thought it'd be in passing . Right , turns out he called me the next day , so Friday , in passing right . Um turns out he called me the next day , so friday , and he was like , hey , I , you said you had a trailer to haul your tractors around . How big's your trailer ? It's like uh , I told him how big my trailer was and he was like I just bought a boat ramp rail thing and I would need need a hand moving it . I was like , oh , okay , he's like I'll pay , I'll pay . I was like , okay , whatever . And I didn't think it was actually going to happen because he still said there was like eight pieces in the puzzle that he needed to put together . Well , those eight pieces kind of fell together and apart .
Speaker 2And uh , today , sunday , after only meeting this guy for two and a half hours last Thursday , I hook up to my trailer and I take my truck an hour north to pick up this boat ramp thing with him and a couple other people , unbolting it out of this pool house , walking it out with a foot in between the boathouse and the water and rocks , and they're all like eight foot by seven foot long pieces . Some of them are 10 . They're all like three , four hundred pounds each , walking them up these stairs , because it's a beautiful house that we're pulling it out of and then loading them all up onto the trailer . And of course it was pouring rain , like absolutely pouring rain . As soon as I get there and I think to myself .
Speaker 2It's like , am I just this dumb ? Like I met this guy because the other kid that was there . He was like , oh , so were you used to be his neighbor ? I was like no , he's like , oh , how do you know him ? It's like I met him last , this past Thursday . I've talked to him for two hours . Here I am , where did you to him ?
Speaker 1for two hours . And here I am . Where did you meet him ? What was this at ? Was it like a get-together , or was this just like ?
Speaker 2I was doing a run and I was sitting there waiting just eating my lunch until I had to go do another pickup because I've been hauling stuff around . And he pulled up next to me and he drives a bus and he started shooting the breeze with me . Just , you know how people kill on time do ? Just shaking up a conversation and yeah , he was talking . He asked me what I was doing . I told him and I said but I used to tow Like I'm not in the industry anymore . In case you didn't know if that wasn't abundantly clear .
Speaker 1We're going to fire him from the show , unless he gets back into it very soon , though , don't worry .
Speaker 2Yeah , don't worry , I'm keep , I'll just keep wearing the merchandise , so you just don't know . And and then we started talking about all that stuff . So , yeah , it was , I guess , me not being in the industry . That kind of like brought joy to my , joy to me again .
Speaker 2And I had a couple people ask me over the last couple weeks oh , do you like what you're doing now , hauling stuff around more than towing ? I was like no , towing's just like it's . There's nothing else like it that I can like . Nothing comes close to towing . And uh , they're like oh well , why don't you get back into it ?
Speaker 2And I just got to give them all the fucking bullshit reasons , right , excuses , whatever you want to call it , go through the routine , yeah , but I I think , as we call ourselves a brotherhood , what you would do for other towers . Like you know , when you get on a tow call and some guy says , oh , I towed back in the day and he has no idea about what the industry is or how it works , and you're like , yeah , sure , you did , bud . But then you meet someone who hasn't been in the industry for a couple years but he's actually been in the industry , like this guy who I was dealing with owned his own company for 27 years . I think it was down in the city , like he knew he's got a good understanding .
Speaker 1He's how the industry works . It's not just a guy who I drove tow truck for three weeks back in the summer of 1972 . Right . Like this guy actually had a beat on like a pulse on the finger on the industry .
Speaker 2Right , and like he could teach you a thing or two type thing , and I feel like I could just be a nice guy or a dumb guy or an idiot , whatever , but I feel like if he wasn't a toer , I wouldn't have offered my services to help him today , right . Right , because we had that connection and we're able to form a quick bond of the industry in a two , two and a half hour conversation , and just how that conversation flowed . If we didn't have that in common , that connection never would have made and I was never going to be able to help that guy today . Right , and I think that's something that we talk about . We can never get together as an industry , which is true , but I think , on a personal basis , like a operator to an operator or an owner to an owner , I think it's very easy to come together and work together and form those friendships and bonds and being able to help each other out because of the industry that we work in .
Speaker 1I think you're right on that too . But again , I think a lot applies to it in this case . Like the fact that you're neither of you are in the industry anymore . Yeah , like it's back in the day , if that guy was your competition or that guy was working out prices to undercut you all that kind of things you wouldn't want to give that . You know that kind of helped too . But the fact that you both yeah , absolutely , it's just . You know it's like two guys that played you know you know sports in college or high school , whatever , like that . You both yeah , absolutely , it's just . You know it's like two guys that played you know you know sports in college or high school , whatever . Like that .
Speaker 1You find a common bond off it . You know , I think that's how I think that's called like how being friends as an adult is Right it's not as easy as back in the day on . You want to play , yeah , okay , it's it's . You find a commonality and you're willing to help people . Now , you've always been a person that does like helping people . I think that's what a big push for you in the industry was . Yep , um . So , that being said , did he actually pay you ? Oh , yeah , he paid me .
Speaker 2He asked me how much I wanted , and I told him exactly what I wanted .
Speaker 1And you , there you go , you obliged perfect , well , well , sometimes it's not as easy to get paid for jobs as that , right , so consider yourself very lucky . Um , there was a story that I wanted to bring into the podcast . It's actually a three part story that we've been running into in our current area and it's something that's been talked about and I know it . It was a lot to do um with the , the ideology um behind the day of action that we talked about weeks back , right ? Ideology um behind the day of action that we talked about weeks back , right , the idea that towing companies with new laws are being forced to follow all these procedures , all these practices , but , have you know , no protection built into the industry in the sense of guarantee of payment , right ?
Speaker 1So their idea was is that they were not doing any calls during that time ? Um , that the police ordered , unless it was an emergency ? Um , as a way of showing their discontent and hopefully work towards a solution . So we did not participate in that weekend , but we definitely have taken a new approach whenever it comes to calls that we are receiving .
So first example is I get a call from the Ontario Provincial Police for a motorcycle recovery out of a quarry . So , a motorcycle was stolen seven years ago , oh , when it was reported stolen and it was dumped into a quarry .
Speaker 2Recently , or just I think it was back then .
Speaker 1It's just they drained the quarry .
Speaker 2Recently a section of the quarry and they found the motorcycle .
Speaker 1So someone walking their dog whatever it was called it in reported cough found it . They called us , so we'd like you to come out and get it . Nope , I said , hold on a second . They're telling me first of all , like , send me some . Do you have any photos what I'm looking at ? What kind of recovery are we dealing with ? They send me the worst photo . They send me a photo from like across the quarry that makes it look like I'm gonna need a rotator and a sea dew to get the line out there . So they send me that and they're yeah , you're gonna need a rotator , you're gonna need this , you're gonna need this . And I'm like , okay , whoa , whoa , whoa , who's paying the bill ? Because I've got a motorcycle that was stolen seven years ago .
Speaker 2That's been underwater for seven years .
Speaker 1It's a right off . Yeah Right , I have no guarantee of payment . I am going to send out you know the way they made it seemed I would need my bigger rotator . I'm going to send out a three quarter million dollar to a million dollar piece of equipment plus labor to recover this thing . And , at the end of the day , what is a motorcycle worth in scrap metal ? Because nobody is going to come forward for this thing ? Yeah , 50 bucks if you're lucky , exactly . So the answer was no , it wasn't no , right , I don't like the word no . I like not until we can figure out payment for this item . So no problem .
Speaker 1The police I explained to them the stance . I said I want to help you out , but you know , at the same time , I'm not publicly funded . I need to be paid for my services . So I get a call back about an hour later from a sergeant and he answers the phone hey , this is Sergeant so-and-so . And right away I go oh , he's not going to be happy about this . No , and he goes here is the insurance company , the policy number and the registered owner of the bike .
Speaker 2wow , I said , oh great , that's normally the information we have to fight over from them to get , if we just show up , yeah , 100 .
Speaker 1So , um , I'm like , oh , wow , that's , that's awesome . Okay , so this was like a sunday . I said , all right , well , I'll get on the phone with the insurance on monday and see what I can get figured out . No problem . So , and I said you know , I had his number . I said I'll keep you up to date with what we have . So I reach out to the insurance company with that claim number I had .
Speaker 1Now , it was a fun process because that claim was from seven years ago . This person is no longer insured with them . Yeah , so we go through all the rigmarole . I'm gonna have to have somebody from my towing and recovery team reach out to you , to , you know , validate any invoice or agreed any charges . No problem . So they reach out to me . We settle on a price , a very fair price , right , but a price that covers my cost .
Speaker 1Now , at this point , once they are interested in the price because I never went out that night to look at it okay , this is about an hour away , yep , so I said once they said like , yeah , if you can get us a price together for it , we'll see what we can set up . I said , okay , well , now I'll invest a little bit of time into this and sure enough I went out . I took a look at it . We brought the with us for giggles . It ended up being off an embankment about 25 feet but I could get a truck right to the end of it , so like a light duty wrecker could do this job .
Speaker 2Yeah , so instead of a couple of thousand dollar bill it could be a thousand dollar bill type thing .
Speaker 1Not quite that . But there's travel time and everything else and so we come up with a very fair price of the with the insurance company . They agree they want it brought to the auction . They ask for a price to get it brought there . We put this all together to them , lay out the bill , prices included , and we go and we recover the unit and we bring it and there's a check waiting for us , picked up , done , Beautiful , it worked beautifully . You know we were paid right for our services . The job was done . Now , if I would have jumped the gun and just went and got that and that bike would have been sitting in my yard collecting storage , it would have been a lot harder to get after the insurance company for it .
Speaker 2Well , yeah , the insurance company then knows , well , the job's already done , because I'm pretty sure the insurance company is still liable for that vehicle .
Speaker 1They are because it was never recovered .
Speaker 2Exactly If it's sitting in your yard . Well , sorry , it's's been recovered .
Speaker 1There's nothing holding them accountable per se , but now that they know the police are involved and the police are wanting it removed and and all this , it puts a little more pressure on them to do the right thing , which they did , I have to admit , and ironically , as you know , my wife works in the impound in my , my workplace she , when I told her who the insurance company where she was like , good luck . I hate dealing with them . I had a great experience . So I guess just different , uh , different experiences with it , but we see that problem more and more . We're running into it .
Speaker 1Another perfect example the other night we got a call from our local fire department for a motor home that was on fire , like an rv type , you know , powered motorhome . And I get there , cops are all gone , it's just this fire chief there we're talking . I pull up and he go , he goes . This is a good one . The whole front of this thing , it's like a 1970s or 80s rv . The whole front is burned , the whole back is fully intact . I go . What's the story ? He goes . Well , this young lady here bought it off somebody outside of town and um called to get it towed to her place but couldn't afford the tow bill . She was quoted like twelve hundred dollars for the tow bill . So , uh , she decided to drive it unplated , uninsured , like herself and the like , drive it .
Speaker 2Drive it , not tow it , like oh it's a yeah , it's an rv , not a trailer .
Speaker 1It's an rv yeah , so drives it no insurance , no plates , takes the risk . Well , on its way , something happens battery explodes , whatever the story is , and it catches fire and she pulls into an old commercial property that's , uh , for lease right now , and it and it lights on fire and the first thing I say is I'm never gonna get paid for this . He's like what do you mean ? I'm like , well , who's gonna pay me for this ? Because now it isn't . Even if I say , well , can't you get scrap metal ? Not for rvs . No , rvs are the worst , because scrapyards won't take them . You got to pay to dispose of these things . So not only am I gonna move it , or you're hoping I'm going to move it and remove it at a cost of my business that I'm not going to recoup . Plus , I'm going to have to put money to get rid of it so that it's not just sitting around my yard that doesn't fly in business .
Speaker 1So again it becomes . Let's see how we're going to get paid . It can stay here tonight . There's no risk , even if it reignites it's far . It's in the middle of a parking lot , any vandalism whatever , it's not a risk to the property . It's not a risk to anything . So we're going to leave it tonight . We'll talk , we'll figure something out in the morning . Right ? Property owner calls us up and says hey , I want it removed . What's it going to cost ? I'll pay the bill . Right , like , I'll take care of that bill . Cool , exactly now we've moved it again . The same problem would happen if you just jump to the gun and pull it and now go . I'm gonna go collect off the property owner in the morning . No , you're not , because if I'm a property owner and you came on my property , remove this , it's commercial property and again I have a long-standing relationship with this property owner ?
Speaker 1right , so there might have been , but if , if it's anyone else they're not gonna go , okay , I'll pay you for the services that you did . That I didn't ask you to do . You know what I mean . Like , yes , it helps my property out , but I'm not responsible for this . Like , the property owner shouldn't have been responsible for this the registered owner and I told him he's more than happy to go after her . Like , if you would like to try and recollect , here's all the information I gathered , that all on scene for you . But somebody's got to pay me for my services .
Speaker 1The towing industry is one of the only responses to any of these sort of MVCs cleanups , fires , any of those things that is not guaranteed payment . Right , we've talked about this over and over again . We're the only ones that show up that are not publicly funded and are not guaranteed payment . So you can take stands in little ways to help fix these things right . Just if another company wants to go get that rv at a loss and pay money to dispose , how about it ?
Speaker 1Why are we so worried about these jobs ? If you explain it in the proper way to the authorities on why and don't just go over the phone like I , you can't go .
Hey , abc telling yeah , I've got a car , it's been an accident . Well , is it insured ? Is it , is it this , is it , this , is it this ? You can't do that , right , you , you need to take the steps , attend the scene , assess the situation , explain to the officers . If it's something now on a car , it's a different story . A car that hit a box culvert , that they're not insured , that you're going to pull out of the ditch with a light duty truck , you should be able to recover most of your cost of scrap value out of that vehicle .
Speaker 2Cars are one thing , but when someone blows the tire on their old 1972 fiberglass boat and they just leave it there sitting on the side of the road side of the highway , pull their plate off their trailer and rip the tag off their boat and just leave it there . You're not going to get any money out of that .
Speaker 1No , right , no , and , like I said , it might end up costing you to dispose . So we ran into the same situation again last night . Ironically , get a call at 1 am , all I get is a trailer on fire on the on the highway . So I go out , I call the officer . I knew the officer that was on scene . He left the number to call him to assess right . So I'm on my way out to him . I give him a call , I go , what do you got ? Well , it's a camper trailer conversion that he's hauling snowmobile , all this kind of stuff fully engulfed . I mean , there's nothing left of this trailer , fully engulfed . No insurance on it , of course . Now ontario is weird , though , because the truck pulling the trailer insures the trailer in the case of an accident most times yeah but a fire is a little bit different .
Speaker 1I don't know if he had you know what I mean fire insurance on the trailer . I don't think the truck insurance carries over for that .
Speaker 2I'm not sure even if you have fire and theft on the vehicle that's towing , I'm not sure if that does I don't think that carries , I'm not sure .
Speaker 1So because of that , when I got on scene , I advised this guy of that and I said look , I'm not sure if your insurance is going to cover this , like the trailer itself specifically wasn't insured . Right , I understand that you can have insurance through the truck insurance and whatnot , but like it's . So here's what my you know . So I give a breakdown . This is what I'm going to do . I'm going to need this equipment , this equipment , this equipment . I'm going to need it for this many hours tonight to do this job . Plus , I'm going to need it for another two hours the day that I go deliver this stuff to , um , the landfill , right , and whether it be because again , it won't go to scrap steel , it's , it's gonna be very hard to see if they take that . So you know , here's the breakdown , here's the fee . I I last one I did that was similar , it was about this price . So I'm gonna , I'm gonna charge a flat rate fee for the dumping fee and you know , if it's a little higher , well then I'm going to take the hit on that . And here's my price . And he goes no , I think that is reasonable , I think that is fair , and he paid my bill on the spot , perfect .
Speaker 1But how many times are we so quick and I keep coming back to this point we're so quick to just go oh , police called , okay , do it Now . It's also one of those very hard times because unless you have road supervisors , unless you have I I'm there's a couple of my drivers that I would trust to make that decision Because they don't understand the business side behind it . Right , no-transcript , yep . And then I look at it and go yes , you're right , you get paid if you get the job , but how do I get paid ? How does the company get paid ? Right , so you can't just . Could you imagine back when we worked together , us making those decisions on scene ? We weren't , we weren't in a position to do that . No , we didn't have the understanding of the business , we didn't have the .
Speaker 2You know the background there was times when we would say to officers on scene or even other drivers that we're getting stuck with this . There ain't no way the company's getting paid for this 100 . That's just bullshit . We can't really say , hey , we can't do this because we know the company's not getting paid . But when we also work together , the industry was completely different eight years ago to what it is today .
Speaker 1I you know what though the problem with paint , with payment within the industry , was completely different eight years ago to what it is today . I you know what , though the problem with paint , with payment within the industry , was still the same . This isn't a new problem . No , this , this , this stuff being brought forward is just the industry is finally bringing it forward because now they feel like it is uneven to the extent that it needs to be well , there's so many more protections in for the consumer .
Speaker 2Yes , and there still hasn't been nothing to do for the actual towing industry .
Speaker 1No , exactly . So next time you're doing that police call or you know , if you do a mix of on road and you've got some you know like maybe talk to your guys and come up with something . And what I was amazed is how well it was received among the police . Now , every time I've actually ended up doing the job right and to say that I would have never gotten paid without it . You can never guarantee that . The chances of me getting paid now we took , or were less , much less .
Speaker 2Can you answer me this ? I can edit it out . If not , was it local or provincial police ?
Speaker 1Um . Two were provincial , One was local .
Speaker 2Okay , okay , so an even mix fairly , yeah , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1And the one that was local . It was the fire department I was dealing with , not the police . Oh right , the police weren't even there . The police , no , had zero cares about this in the world .
Speaker 2So you're not the reason why I ask that is because you don't carry contracts for provincial police . Normally you carry contracts for , like , regional police or regional police departments , so I could see where the police department . Let's say , if you're contracted in the city of Toronto for whatever reason I don't know if they have contracts or not but you're contracted to Toronto police and they get this vote , or he's done all the contracts or not , but your contract to Toronto Police and they get this boat and they expect that it gets cleared , because they call a towing company and it gets done regardless . And to start bringing this stuff up might , especially when you're just dealing with an officer on scene they probably were done two hours ago and they just want to get the fuck home , right , but again a car .
Speaker 1In most of these situations I was talking about a boat that was just want to get the fuck home . Right now you're tying them up on the side of the road a car in most of these situations . You know I was talking about like a boat that was abandoned , a boat that was about yeah , the same thing I was talking about earlier a boat trailer , no motor .
Speaker 2They don't have a motor , like there's no value .
Speaker 1But there's certain things , a lot of times that when you have these contracts with municipal police , with regional police , with um , there is , you're right , no contract with , technically , the provincial police .
Speaker 1But there is the pilot project in toronto which is , you know , kind of goes along those lines a lot of times there is options like with our , with our local police , like , depending on what the service is , they'll pay for it . Right , like we run into that . So if we get , like , a stolen , recovered vehicle that they want brought to their ident , they will pay the tow to their ident . They will . They will pass the tow , the cost of the tow from ident to our yard , plus accumulating storage , on to the customer , right , but it will be , they'll cover . Like .
Speaker 1So if there is things like they have had some weird things like a chop shop that got dismantled , that we had to go in and pull all kinds of stuff which pretty much just went into a roll-off bin , yep , um , they will pay for that kind of services . So if you were to get those weird ones , I imagine there's , for the sake of good business , for the sake of whatever there is , um protection built into a contract I would hope about , I would hope now with the provincial police . That's actually the tougher part , because there is no contract , right , there is no like . You can't go bill them . No , right , like they .
Speaker 1Good luck I implore you to try I have yeah we have billed them for certain services that they've requested right , on certain fatalities and different things like that , you can bill them . But for this car that just you know they called you to remove out of the ditch , you ain't billing them for that . They're they're not gonna pay that bill . So it really becomes a tougher one because there's no kind of contracts put in place for that kind of stuff . So if it's something that's not impeding traffic , right , we've seen it . We've seen . I've seen trailers left on the side of highways and in certain parts of the country right , because they want to guarantee payment . And it's the same thing . We're seeing brand new units abandoned in our year brand new transports 2023s because they weren't insured and they got into a wreck . Right , that is a huge thing . I know it is .
Speaker 1It was a big debate in the towing industry for a long time was holding on to cargo right . If , if I get a tractor trailer that rolls over and we recover it with the cargo and the unit comes back , the first thing they want is the cargo ? Yeah , because the cargo is the value and they have requirements they need to meet . But you have to hold on to the cargo because once you let go , of that cargo once you let go of that cargo they have .
Speaker 1No , if they have a wrecked highway tractor , you know there's value in it from salvages and whatever , but there's not going to be value anywhere near the cost of recovery . No . So you know , the government has taken steps to protect the consumer in these ways and one of them is yeah , well , you can't hold the cargo because it's it's you know , but but you have to because once that cargo is gone , the , the company has no , you know no reason to pay me . They'll pay me my invoice . Now , that's the problem . This becomes and this is something that goes into the us side of what I wanted to talk about because it becomes , they look at it as predatory towing practices because you are holding something hostage in order to get paid now and then you're , and then , in their eyes , because the public does not fully understand the , the cost that goes into running a towing business and and and doing these kinds of recoveries , right , they look at it and go . Not only are you holding something hostage , you are holding something hostage for unbelievably high prices that you want for a recovery . Yeah Right , they don't look at that . That's a million dollar truck that you know we needed to buy , maintain , upkeep , pay for fuel .
Speaker 1You know all those costs that we all know go into the towing industry . They don't care about that , they just go well . There's no way you can charge , let's say , a thousand dollars an hour for a unit like that . We go well , yes , you can , and yes , we did , and we made the . You know we went out and made that investment and spent that money to be able to do these recoveries by limiting damage , everything else , increasing safety , all that . But you want to call it predatory because you don't have a full understanding on how financially the business works . And so , by holding on to the cargo , you could just see how this would be an absolute spread all over the news . Local towing company holds cargo hostage , especially if it would be something like a load of like medical supplies , right , or did you imagine if it's anything essential , like grocery , right , holds a load of groceries hostage . This is why the the prices are going up and refuses to release it unless paid exorbitant , you know , unless paid . 30 , 40 , you know , 20 , 30 thousand dollars .
Speaker 2And to the public , oh my god , that's so bad the industry is meanwhile , they just have to throw out the load anyways , but they need a headline exactly
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Speaker 1Meanwhile , they don't talk about the 8 to 12 hours , or you know , eight hour recovery , that this bill was um in the middle of the night and the pouring rain , and the amount of resources that it took to do this to open up one of the busiest highways in north america and and why that cost . Is that cost right ? So you know the us is starting to see it . Where they had this memo gone out about predatory towing and prices ? Right , they want to start limiting the towing industry . Um on fees they can charge . Right , they're talking about all these hidden fees within the towing industry . Now , this is something that we have seen a lot . And if you want more information on predator , these fees in this program that we're discussing or this new bill that they're drafting up in the us because we do have a large us listener base I suggest you head over uh to the tow business podcast . They have a lot more information . Uh , southwest wrecker operators as well did a show on this . Uh with one of the hosts from the tow business podcast . They have a lot more information . Uh , southwest wrecker operators as well did a show on this . Uh with one of the hosts from the tow business podcast . I suggest you guys check that out again . Being in Canada , we're a little less connected on it , but we can go off what we've read , what I've heard , what I've listened , what I've had a couple of people talk about . So , um , they are trying to eliminate added fees into the towing industry Right now . That is something the Ontario government has recently done with this new to see a program where there is fees that you are not allowed to charge for , like border crossing fees , like fuel surcharges , all that kind of stuff . So companies have now just adopted them into their hourly rate but there is certain fees . So I'll read kind of the headline US Department of Transportation supports strong protection for truckers against predatory towing junk fees .
Speaker 1I love that they call them junk fees . Yeah , I'll pull it up here . Um , washington , the U S department of transportation , federal motor carrier safety administration , fmcsa I love dealing with them . They're the people that make us do drug testing in the States . Um , today expressed strong support for truckers protection against predatory towing fees in a comment filed on the federal trade commission's proposed rule banning junk fees . When a truck driver's vehicle is towed , they can't earn a living until they get it back , leaving them vulnerable to predatory junk fees from towing companies . Predatory towing negatively impacts consumers , including commercial motor vehicle drivers and trucking companies . It is detrimental to overall health of the trucking industry and it's time to end excessive rates , surcharges and other unfair fees associated with predatory towing .
Speaker 2That was from the fmcsa deputy administrator , sue lawless . I love that last name lawless .
Speaker 1You can go ahead and find the links for these , if we ever remember to actually do them , in the description for the episode . Um . So yeah , again they're talking of excessive fees that can add up to thousands and thousands of dollars yeah , then they got a couple of bullet points down below .
Speaker 2Ban junk fees for unnecessary goods or services . The fmcsa suggests adding a provision that prohibits companies from charging any fee for any good or service that has no value , costs nothing extra to provide or that reasonably using equipment that they already own and use routinely to provide the towing service .
Speaker 1So I'm a little and I wish I would have done .
Speaker 2I'm scared by that .
Speaker 1You need to bring your mic closer to you , by the way , I'm scared by that . Okay , but no , it is something so . So I don't know what they mean by that equipment fee . Now are guys just throwing a random invoice line item on an invoice that says equipment fee and not explaining it ? Are they trying to charge for specialty equipment for these towing and recoveries ? You know we joke . We talk things like the back pull hitch , the iver tool , bigger scale , uh , airbags , right , like I don't know what . It is the threshold they're talking about . This equipment fee , um , or is it that you're just doing ? Okay , it's 200 and it's 250 an hour for this truck , it's this , this , this , this , and then we're adding on a um , a five percent equipment fee . Right , I don't know how . I haven't seen the us invoices in this way . Now again , they're standing on the backs of the truckers to protect the truckers . At least that's what they're going at , right , because it's like this , you know , is hurting the trucking industry .
Speaker 2Well , I'm not a towing industry kind of sort , of a trucking industry as well .
Speaker 1Well , I'm not . I'm not in the us , so I can't say what's wrong with your trucking industry . I can tell you that if you start enforcing that you know the trucking industry has proper insurance to cover their cargo and not three-party insurance for all this kind of stuff would probably do more to protect the towing or the trucking industry against the towing industry by having proper coverage for the services they provide , by having experienced , experienced drivers , by strickening up requirements for drivers , by doing all those kinds of things , so we don't get all these guys with three months experience that are going and driving tractor trailers into the rhubarb because they figured out they can't drive more than you know four hours without falling asleep . Yeah , now the fear is that they want to be able that you can have , should have everything in an all in price , right ? So in other words , we should be able to call , we should be able to get an all in price .
Speaker 1Well , here's my problem with that , coming from somebody who has quoted and build for heavy recoveries , you can't quote that up front . No , I can give you and that is what Ontario has kind of asked for , which is where they have a little bit more leniency I can give you what my units , a full list of my units and what they run at per hour , and I will keep it within these rates . But to tell me to pull up on scene to look at a job and to flat out give a rate , first of all , I'm going to go high . If that's how it's got to be , I'm going high .
Speaker 2I'm going high . Yeah , I'm adding an extra five hours on everything , just to be on the safe side . You have to because things happen .
Speaker 1There is things that you may not see until you get partway into that recovery , right , there's all these kinds of things . So you can't give a flat rate price . Yeah , then , not
to mention . Okay , so let's play this one out . So the company is now price shopping and getting their flat rate price . So three scene coordinators are all going to show up to the same rack . They're all going to look at it , they're all going to give their price and then the company will go with the cheapest option , because that's what they're concerned about here . It is not about the , you know , what's going to save their cargo , what's going to do any of this out there , it's about the cheapest price . That's why you want the all in price and they're going to go with the cheapest one . And now we're three hours into this and we still haven't moved a truck .
Speaker 1Right , the U ? S is very strict on their , on their quick clearance projects that they have . Right , the state , you know , or the , the city , whatever it is , will require , every time that it's tripped , that these , this amount of equipment , has to roll to a , to a scene . Right , I ran in , I seen an article and I want to say it was down in georgia where a box truck company got an invoice for you know whatever the number was and they were outraged by it . Well , the problem was that the state trooper had deemed it as a trip with their incident response , which requires , like two heavy wreckers , a blocker truck and I want to say something else attend . So they moved this box truck off the highway like a mile and got off the highway , but now you're paying for all three of those trucks . Yep , like they didn't build that system right . Like they were told if , if , you get a call under this , this is what you have to respond with . So they had trucks on standby that have to meet response times and that , okay .
Speaker 1So it ended up being a 26 foot box truck . It wasn't a , you know , 80 000 pound loaded tractor trailer , it doesn't matter . You've got to pay for the equipment , right . So you get this price shopping that starts going on . You get that you are going to negatively affect the quick clearance of highways , right . Then you throw the pocket on top of that . You're going to give the cheapest price . You're going to , you know , yes , there's competitiveness to it to keep us all in check , which I'm all for , but you're going to , you know , encourage the race to the bottom . I'm all for . But you're going to , you know , encourage the race to the bottom . And then you're going to lower your price to do the service , only to find out that they don't have proper insurance and you're not going to get paid and you have no recourse in action to go after them to get paid .
Speaker 2Well , I'm also kind of concerned . Okay , so you give the people ability to price shop around . Okay , cool , whatever they say . Okay , cool , whatever they say . Okay , I'm going to go with the $3,000 option instead of the $6,000 option . The $6,000 option bigger outfit They've got a really good record behind them . And the $3,000 option fewer trucks , a little smaller .
Speaker 2The smaller operation that got the job for three thousand dollars goes out , starts the job , realizes it's out of their scope , can't finish the job . And now what do they do ? Can they call another truck in from the people that charged or was going to charge six thousand dollars , but now that wasn't agreed upon the rates originally , because now they would have to pay . That is the company that originally got the job for 3 000 just going to have to eat that cost . Or now does the customer now have to agree to this other company's rates just to get the job done ? Like , how is that going to work and how is how going to ? Well , you said you could do it for $3,000 and now you can't . So now who's at fault for that ?
Speaker 2Like and the towing industry ? The one reason why most of us love it is because it keeps us on our toes . Let's say you got a tractor trailer that's hit a tree sideways and as you're pulling it away from the tree , the tree decides to fall down in between the tractor and the trailer . And then , away from the tree , the tree decides to fall down in between the tractor and the trailer . Well , now , that's made your recovery twice as long because you got to remove the tree or separate the trailer and the truck to get it around from this tree . Well , yeah , it's something you could potentially try to bill for , you know , but at the end of the day at the end of the day you're not .
Speaker 2That's not a normal thing that happens , because nothing in this industry is a normal thing that happens when it comes to recovery . But the government the issue .
Speaker 1Yeah , the government seems to want it to be a normal set out price structure , and and that is what it is . And until these lawmakers . Now , you know , the U ? S is lucky in the sense that they're just beginning to draft this bill , right't you know ? This isn't the ontario association , six months behind the ball after it comes out going , oh right , like they're ahead of it . And and the one thing I can say is that the american towing industry seems to stand together a little better on this stuff . They seem to have more organized because this is at the federal level . To my understanding , this is not a state to state thing .
Speaker 2This is at the federal level yeah .
Speaker 1So the advice that I can give you if you want more information on it because I know there's a lot going on , there's a lot of petitions that are out , there's a lot of information on that side you you can send us a private message . I will get you in touch with somebody that can better educate you on it than than what you heard on this Um . But I think the importance would really be to look at joining your local , state and federal associations . Right , the T R a is is a big one in the States . Look to them for the information . Join your associations . They are going to need your help to fight this before you end up like Ontario , where everything is regulated to hell and we're hoping that they'll give us a bone later on down the road . Like that is what we're at . Like that's that's the phase that we're at . So if you guys have the opportunity to have your input , have your say .
Speaker 1Have some change made on this . You know , check out our friends at southwest toe operators on facebook . They're the ones that hosted the show um called recovery alley . They went over it . It was a good episode . I watched it . You can find it over on their Facebook page . I , I . I think they were on YouTube as well , I'm not sure , um , or you know . Again , the tow business podcast is another great one where they share a lot of information . Um , you know I've made jokes before where they're a little drier , they're geared a little bit more towards management and ownership , but it's definitely something easy , even as a driver . You need to be aware of that . You can help before it becomes too late for the industry where you're at .
Speaker 2So yeah , I think one thing america normally does good as a whole is a rally around the flag movement right when times get you where he's sixth was a perfect example .
Speaker 2They rallied around a flag , all right um , when , when the going gets tough , people come together and are able to fight what they need to right , and I think something like this is . We always talk about how the industry is so divided . Something like this is easy for companies to come together , especially in its infancy . Like this is now to say hey , this is what's going on , this is the reason why we do certain things . Uh , I'm I'm assuming these are coming from those people that hold cars hostage and won't release it until the bill gets over ten thousand dollars or the people , yeah , or like us , who hold cargo hostage yeah , because we want to make sure we're fairly paid .
Speaker 1But it's missing , you know , represented yeah exactly so .
Speaker 2It could be the bad actors in the industry which we need to do something to be able to cut them out of the industry , because we don't need them here . They're only making it worse for everyone , as you can look at ontario , right . Just look at , look at us as a case study , for you don't want the whole you don't want what we got going on over here . You don't , um , so just get on it while it's early , stay on top of it and don't stop fighting until you get what you deserve .
Speaker 1It's it's not all maple syrup and free health care okay , and the free health care is shit . Yeah , the free health care is kind of shit it's got more and more shit I would like I almost want I've , I've , like I'll work . I'll work more to make more money to pay for private health care at this point . Yeah , if it gets me there what I need sooner .
Speaker 2I kind of want to move to Texas .
Speaker 1Oh boy , you look like the type that would move to Austin .
Speaker 2However , Brandon Herrera didn't win his seat in Congress , so I'm not sure if I would want to move to District 23 .
Speaker 1I have no idea . You look like you should move to Texas . I'm pretty sure they've had a couple of cults that have gone real south down there .
Speaker 2Perfect , I'll fit right in with my cult up here .
That is about all the time that we do have for today . Again , we do appreciate you guys joining us . It was fun to talk Americans and finally bag on the issues they're having rather than the ones we're having here at home . So , yes , if you have again questions , comments , concerns for the show , visit us by heading to our website at wwwtowinglifeca , email us directly at thetowinglife at gmailcom , or find us on Facebook at the Towing Life podcast . Don't forget to like and subscribe . It should make the little thing dance , as G said , and if you are watching on the YouTube side , you can leave that comment down below . So , on behalf of myself , my wonderful co-host , mr Toman G , we thank you for joining us for another episode of the Toman Life Podcast and we cannot wait to see you again next time . Take care , toodles , I think the subscribe button only dances the once . Boo , youtube sucks .