Really hate because when we talk about this , we got to keep calling them drivers because operators a whole different thing under Tazia and I fought for years to not call them drivers , Only for the government to step in and go you a driver .
Speaker 3Hey everyone . I'm Brad from Calgary . This is Sean from Cambridge . Ontario . I'm Terry from Cornwall Ontario . Hey this is Larry from .
Speaker 1Pit Metals , british Columbia , and you're listening to the Towing Life Podcast .
Speaker 3Welcome to the Towing Life Podcast , where the ditches are deep , the trucks are loaded , but the drivers are not . I am your host , Towing man G , and , as usual , I'm joined by my co-host , friend and former co-worker , a man with very strong opinions , Mr Plain Guy .
Speaker 1What is going on ? G . What is going on ?
Speaker 3Well , we talked for about four , five minutes before we actually started the show , and I already have a headache from that conversation .
Speaker 1Oh , it's going to be . It's interesting times coming in the towing industry . We've we've discussed it before . We're going to try and keep it brief and entertaining . Um , when it comes to the to see a side of things , uh , which we were once again going to review with July 1st , yesterday at the time of airing of this episode . So Ontario's new laws have taken a full effect .
Speaker 3Happy .
Speaker 1Canada .
Speaker 3Day . Happy 4th of July to all you Americans out there .
Speaker 1That's coming up later on this week . Ooh , that is it . I think for next week we should do . We'll take a week to put together a little 4th of July trivia . Maybe we can make a little fun out of it if you put together a couple questions , I put together a couple questions , I put together a couple questions and we see who is who is well educated on the ways of the south . Um , you guys were lucky enough to have your first debate down there . I did watch clips of it . Uh , lord , help you is is all I'm gonna say .
Speaker 1I'm not gonna watch the first 40 minutes of it okay , I'm not gonna get political on the side of it . Um , I know they're doing it almost to get people interested in what's going on in the election , because it is very early . However , what is the population of the US ? Do we know this ? Gee , I'm going to look it up . Okay , the population of the US . Usa population is 333.3 million as of 2022 . Okay , so it's a little dated . So , 333 million people ? Now , I'm not one to judge , because Canada is no , you know perfect world right now . No , but out of that many people , this is the best . Two that you came up with , like two that you came up with like this is the best . Two people out of 333 million . Lord , help you . And again , I feel like a hypocrite saying that because it's anyone listening can easily go hey , plain guy , look at canada . That's what you guys came up with fair the general population .
Speaker 3That's what you guys came up with . Fair the general population doesn't pick who runs for president , it's the people who want that person to be president .
Speaker 1It's still the fact that 333 million people and that is , and it's come down to these two yeah , 80 and , and 81 and 80 year olds , or 79 year old and 81 year old like this , is the yeah . So good luck to you . Um , you can return that you know that job to me when our election comes around , because I assure you it won't be much better . Um , however , yes , um , so , without getting into the us politics too much , um , you can have your say on who you're voting for on the next federal election . You can visit us at wwwtowinglifeca . You can email us directly at thetowinglife at gmailcom , or you can find us on Facebook at the Towing Life podcast .
Speaker 1If you're watching over on the YouTube side , they've probably turned off commenting because we mentioned anything political , but if they haven't , you can head down below leave a comment . Don't forget , while you're there , to hit the like , hit the subscribe , hit the follow , hit all the buttons that you can hit . Uh , if you really don't like what we're saying or you uh you don't agree with uh Tomangie's MAGA mentality , you can hit that thumbs down twice . Uh , it'll really let YouTube know what you think of , uh , what you think of his . Uh , I don't want to say ways .
Speaker 3I just realized I've had the windows open in my house like a lot over the last couple of weeks because it's been fire , fairly decent and the wind has , like made my calendar fold in on itself .
Speaker 1I don't know .
Speaker 3I don't know how your calendar is failing .
Speaker 1Yeah , it wasn't quality controlled . I don't know how your calendar is failing Apparently it wasn't quality controlled Um , but yeah , so .
Speaker 1so , yeah , I know I do want to get into a bit . Uh , we're going to get into a couple of things . Uh , first I want to talk about I am . I am sore , I am tired , my arms are like jelly today . Um , but it was all for a good cause within the company . So , uh , we set out a goal at the beginning of the year it might've been last year , but somewhere around the beginning of the year that we wanted to start focusing more on what do you call it Like employee happiness , right ? Um , at the end of the day , the dollar is the ultimate thing . Pay me to do my work . Um , the extras are the extras .
Speaker 1The extras are the extras , but we had set out a goal that we were going to every quarter , so every four months sorry , that would be three months . Every three months we were going to do a staff oriented event . This has been on top of our policy where we have gone to every week doing staff lunches . So every week on Thursdays we've been ordering pizzas , we've been doing some like Popeye's chicken , some whatever we've been doing Like we've been ordering lunches every Thursday for the staff that's working that day .
Speaker 3Yeah , um , on the company as well for the guy who never works on a single Thursday .
Speaker 1No , the way our rotation works .
Speaker 3I never have that problem ?
Speaker 1Um , I never had that problem . But then we also want to do four staff events a year , so we did one three months ago . Um , where we did it was called the archery combat . It was a french name but it's easier to say in english , so it was pretty much uh , dodgeball with bow and arrows , oh , with the like big , like beanbags on the end of them . We played that down in uh , down in montreal , where we did that , and there was maybe I don't know eight , nine of us that went down .
Speaker 1Um , that was physically exhausting . That is the day I realized how out of shape I am . Like when you do that thing like dodgeball , where you run to the middle to grab the ball . I'm like behind the airbag thing going nope , someone's gonna send one my way and miss and I'll pick it up then . Because after doing that about , like you know , we've played about 10 or 12 different games . Oh , wow , by the end of it you are like my legs are non-existent , my arms are even worn out . My wife had all kinds of bruises on her . Um , so that was good , right , we got about , you know , a good chunk of our staff um wasn't as many as we would have liked .
Speaker 1So today came around and we've been planning it for a bit and we were doing go-karting right . So we called a track nearby and we we set up the go-karting and we had 14 of us , which is a good number , good , good majority of our staff . And the rule is that we have with the guys is , if you're working that weekend , there's a chance you may not be able to come right , like you might not hit every one of them , but we will make it that it . You know , I'm not going to make it that it's the same guy working every week every time we do this . So a couple of the guys I got coverage for us . They could make it . Um , a couple people just didn't want to come . That's fine , that's their , you know their choice .
Speaker 1It's not a mandatory mandatory fun day yeah , my wife came down , um she is was dead last . I , uh , I am . I'm sad to report that we have two very different driving styles . Uh , one of them involves leaning heavily on the right pedal and one of them involves just driving miss daisy around you really like the skinny pedal , I see yeah , exactly .
Speaker 1Yeah , I was . I was very hard on the pedal , um , so , no , but it was great . You know what those kind of team building experiences they're . They're , you know they come at a cost for the company , but in a day and time now where , hey , financially , a lot of people are strapped to right , that that chance for them to get out and do stuff of enjoyment because they're so focused on just covering the bare necessities , right , little things like this is a good way to , kind of you , build your team morale , right .
Speaker 1We had lots of laughs and , and you know , lots of anger and I , I did , um , I did take out my , uh , one of my admin people in the office , like unintentionally , but pretty good , um , I had one of my heavy operators absolutely wreck me into an outside wall . That I , I thought I went by myself . I didn't even know he touched me . It wasn't until after the race that he informed me that no , no , I , I wasn't getting lapped by you , so I absolutely cut the wheels into you and it was , it was , it was around high speed , like one of the fastest corners , and I went pretty good into it , um , but , uh , you know it builds good morale . You have some fun .
Speaker 1It gets you to see these people outside of work a little bit too right really helps build that culture within the company , and I think that kind of stuff goes so much farther than than a company would think yeah right , like you look at and you probably go , okay , well , every three months we're going to spend about a thousand bucks on these kind of events .
Speaker 1So four thousand dollars a year , it's a good chunk of change . But at the same time , what is the cost of training new operators , what is the cost of constant turnover , what is the cost that we're going to get into that a little bit with the changes coming to see in ontario , but what is the cost ? Like , this industry takes such a toll on these people's lives that I think , for you know , and again , depends on the size of your company , right , we're fortunate enough that we are able to . You know people that have worked for us previously , who have not , you know , who are on good terms because I have plenty of people that aren't that they are willing to . You know we've kept a good relationship that they're willing to come cover right , so that I can have my staff down , right , if you're a company of three , four guys , you know having , uh , one or two spares to go . Hey , we're doing this event . Would you be willing to come cover a shift ? And , and for us it was like four hours yeah right , it was four or five hours .
Speaker 1It covered from , I think , 10 am until 3 pm , but they could have done it till 2 pm , like we were back in plenty of time , but we gave the guys time to go get lunch and everything else and and get back ready for it . So I I really think you know , and I'd love to say this is my idea it was , it was the farthest thing from
. As you know me , I am not the um is care as much about personal as I should . Yep , I'm very much at an arm's length um . So it was our owner that came up and said , hey , I want to do this , I want to build a culture , I want to build something , a family within this company . And yes , we do it through the experiences that we go through and the trauma that we go through and all of those things , but let's do it in a way that we can really have some fun with it . And , yeah , I think it's been a great , great addition to our day-to-day thing and something to look forward to every three months .
Speaker 3I think you're seeing a lot more of that in a lot of different industries where you've got to build a culture around your certain sort of business . And I've always been in the mindset of I'll get close to the coworkers but upper management I keep like my personal life , work life completely separate . I've never once added any of my previous bosses on facebook . I don't talk to them , I don't have their personal number . Outside of work I keep it very . I show up , I do my job , go home . But I do like this idea of doing something every quarterly .
Speaker 3But what if you did ? Okay , so , because a lot of these guys have families and it's great to do the experience together as a collective whole . But then let's say , okay , I went and I did that go-karting with you , and then I got to come home and tell my 8-year-old that I went go-karting that day . Now he's going to want to go go-karting . Well , if we're all strapped for cash now it's on me to take him back out go-karting . What if you did something where you do every quarter ? Like every quarter , you put together a couple of small packages and say here's four tickets go to a Jays game .
Speaker 3Or here's four tickets go do this activity with your family or something like that to show your appreciation in that regard , instead of like especially if you are a company to where you can't get that coverage to all take all your staff out . I think that would be a better way to go , because then you can just pick one individual , or two individuals each quarter to go away and do something , obviously with a bit of their input , of what they want to do yeah , I like that idea .
Speaker 1I think that's a great idea . I think it's it would have to be like said you'd have to pick employees and then you know you'd have to do things , because I mean , if I'm talking 14 staff plus their kids plus or whatever , for events , I mean , your cost is , you know , starting to get excessive . Now here's the trick I have for anyone that goes go-karting and has an eight-year-old at home don't tell them . Just don't tell them . Right , where are you ? Daddy was at a work meeting , right , like you have to tell me you went go-karting .
Speaker 3Have that conversation with your wife or your other partner afterwards okay , but what happens when they follow the company's facebook page and they post a big team driver thing on their Facebook ?
Speaker 1Yeah , daddy , daddy was , daddy wasn't there that was a different meeting .
Speaker 3Daddy wasn't there , then you're just boldly lying to your cat A hundred percent .
Speaker 1I fully believe in lying to children . Um . I don't think I owe them anything , um , unless I , you know , I pay you um , I , um , I . I don't require to answer your questions . Yes , playing guy does encourage and condone lying to children , um , but no , no , I . I like the idea you're coming with I . I think that's something you could . A company could definitely look at again , given especially if it's a smaller company . Maybe if it's a smaller company 100 .
Speaker 1Now we have , you know , and it's something that could a company could definitely look at again , given their size , especially if it's a smaller company , maybe if it's a smaller company 100% . Now we have , you know , and it's something that we tried , it's not really taken off . We had tried doing kind of what I call the legacy program and this would happen every year and there was tiers to the legacy program One year , three year , five year , 10 year , 15 year and , based on the completion of that time , there was a set gift with a set dollar amount that the employee would receive at the end of the year , right , so , like a a . One year was like a nice , uh , like spring jacket logo , spring jacket , like just something , something you wouldn't wear to work . Yeah .
Speaker 1Right , uh , three years was a . I don't remember what we had kind of come up with , maybe a spa package or a hotel stay , something like that right now , where you could use the . You know , even if you don't use the , even if you use the full amount and then have to cover some yourself for maybe your family and whatnot , um , you know , 15 years was like a beautiful watch because , let's be honest , 15 years of a staff and as an employee that you have in this day and age is especially in the towing industry , is no small feat . Yeah , um . So stuff like that to show appreciation . I think you can show appreciation every day and I think I'm the first person that is guilty of not always showing appreciation in the right ways . Um , but , but no
, it's .
Speaker 1It's come to a time where , like I said , the towing industry is very tough as it is . We're seeing a hard time getting good qualified applicants and then we're seeing an even harder time on keeping good qualified applicants , especially when you get into the license requirements , and I just mean driving right , like a dump truck driver , right , that's what I compare a lot of salaries to . You . Look at what a dump truck driver will make for the amount of easy work that they'll do . Right , and I'm not here to shit on dump truck drivers and say they're doggers , but I mean you put a DZ license to use in that kind of industry , you'll have a higher hourly wage and a lot more stability .
Speaker 1Now on the towing side , you will have the ability to make more money based on commission and bin and the extras that come with it , but it also comes with a lot more hours . So how can we start to promote the industry and encourage people away from those other jobs into our jobs and it can be things financial like financially you have to be at least in the ballpark . Right , you have to be in the ballpark . You cannot be . I don't care if you're doing pizza parties every week . You cannot be significantly lower salary at the end of the year for the same amount of time worked . If you are , it's never going to work .
Speaker 3No , and I think that's one of the hard things to do in mostly the tracking industry as a whole , us included is a lot of people want to be able to start somewhere and see a path forward of okay , I can grow in this company . If I can grow in this company , the company and I can grow together . Right .
Speaker 3And that's how you get long-term employees , of course . But if I come in let's say I come into this industry as a g class driver I get my license okay . How can I move up from here ? Well , I can go get my dz . All right , cool , I go and get my dz . All right . Where can I move up from here ? Well , I can go get my az and start doing heavy recovery , and that's pretty much the ceiling .
Speaker 1But most of your guys yeah , but it's the ceiling . Okay , the AZ is your ceiling , but the AZ in the trucking industry too , that's your ceiling If you're in the driving industry Well , that's what I'm saying the trucking industry as a whole .
Speaker 3Right , right , once you are a driver , that's pretty much up . Yeah , sure , you could become a dispatcher , but that's probably going to come with a pay cut .
Speaker 3There might be an opening for a manager role , um , and still be a driver like a driver like a lead , like a lead row , yeah , lead hand but that's not going to be for everyone that that position might get filled and probably will hopefully stay occupied for at least 10 years for a manager , you would hope . I would hope it's going to be hard to just as someone coming in seeing that as an actual opportunity to grow within the company . So I think , especially in the trucking industry , even more so in the towing industry , let's face it a lot of it's physically demanding work , especially on the big wrecks , can be , hours upon hours .
Speaker 3You're outside in the weather , you're working outside , you're dealing with upset people and if the money's not there , you can go and maybe get a job for a couple dollars less an hour or maybe even the same dollars per hour and just drive just drive , deal with the other bullshit exactly , it's not .
Speaker 3It's going to be easier on your body because they probably still have air ride seats . I'm sure they do . But uh , yeah , you're not getting out jumping up and down in ditches , you're not pulling out winch cables , you're not doing anything . You're not doing offloads . Right , some trucking jobs . You might have to unload a dry van or a box truck every once in a while , but a lot of times they got stuff like that for that .
Speaker 1So but if anyone , if anyone , is looking for that going like you know I don't want to do this then you shouldn't be in the towing industry . To start , right , like we do know that it takes a special breed . There is , you know , the seat fillers that we get , and there is candidates that we see come and go that , no , they belong driving a cube truck , driving a dump truck driving or whatever . Like they're they . That is where they are going to end up and you know it right , they will never be one that are going to operate your bigger trucks . Like like , we're lucky in the sense because we do a lot of light duty , we do a lot of heavy duty , we do a lot of weird stuff . So , when we talk about progression of the employee and and growth potential within the employee , right , when you first start off , you are just doing basic toes . That's all you do . Sorry , no , basic toes , that's all you're doing . That's all you're doing . Basic toes . Service calls .
Speaker 1As you start to progress and they , you know , you start to earn trust and abilities and whatnot . You will move on to little more tricky things and then you'll move on to more and more and then you have those go-to guys that you trust , that you know . I mean you can send out to a call solo without issue and you know that they'll figure it out right , like that . There's a natural progression with it . Then from there we look at , we look at our operators and we can normally see early enough within a year or two . I say early enough . It's a long career for some in the industry , but within the first year or two you'll start to see potential for them and in our case we have a heavy fleet division as well . So you will start to see potential for them into the heavy side of towing . Sometimes you need to wait for a position to open up , sometimes you need to wait for them to be of age that the insurance will consider it . Um , and some of them you just got to wait for their skills to develop to a point that you feel they are there . And then you got to try and not give them that that teaser too early on because you don't want to , you know , get the ultimatum set or , you know , have them a little high on their horse possibly , but you you know , then they can grow into heavy . Okay , so now you're getting the heavy towing .
Speaker 1All right , where's your first step in heavy towing ? Well , the first guy out the door is always the guy that's just doing the towing Right . The rotator guys tend to be a little bit , you know , on standby more . If we need them for toes , of course they're available , but at the same time I want to keep them on the road doing the regular towing right . The other guys are in the shop . They're private stuff . They're cleaning trucks , organizing trucks . Again , you gotta , you gotta base this on each individual operator skill sets and what they're good at . Like , I have guys that are great at looking busy , 100 or not being found yeah that is my and and .
Speaker 1Productivity in the shop happens , but very , you know , nowhere near the level of some of the other operators . Yeah , right , and and and . I was that same guy back when I am the first guy to admit it I sucked at pushing a broom , I sucked at doing that little tidying up stuff . I wanted to tell or I wanted to sit there . Yeah , there was no happy in between , so you know , but you have to do those things . I mean , if you're getting paid hourly by a company , there's , there's requirements and things that need to be done . But who do you think is the first guy out whenever a tote call comes in ?
Speaker 1it's that guy , because I want to get that guy doing what he's good at , because he ain't good at passing a broom , he good at hiding .
Speaker 3I think that's something too , Like we've said before that sometimes it's almost better to hire new than to hire someone with a bunch of experience but has all these bad habits , and I think with one of those in that regard .
Speaker 3We were both commission operators for a very long time right we got paid when we were in the truck rolling down the road . So to come back to the shop and sit around and start pushing a broom it's easy to get in that mindset . Well , I'm not getting paid for this . Unless the company has specifically stated and has in place that they're going to pay you hourly for doing bullshit in the shop , then that's fine . Then you know you're getting compensated for what you're doing .
Speaker 1I'm not just saying pushing a broom , I'm saying whatever task it is at the shop no 100 now our guys are are definitely structured differently , but then you see the progression in the heavy side he goes hey , if I put in my time and and that's the biggest problem I think that I'm seeing with a lot of new operators is that they don't understand Like they want to go okay , I want to go from light duty operator to rotator extraordinaire in three years . It doesn't happen . No , it doesn't happen . You do not go from light duty tow operator to management in three years . No .
Speaker 1Right , unless you are some absolute phenomenon . Like you know , there's always the exception to the rules . Right , it always happens . But for the most part you need to put in time . You need to put in not just time like it's , not just like a , you know , a irrelevant number that a company sets out for for no reason , that you have to be in this long before you do this . A lot of it is justified and you have to have an understanding . You know , let's say , rotators , how do I know if one of my drivers is not ready to go to heavy ? I ask them what their wire rope's rated for on their light duties . If they can't give me that answer , you're not even at the first step . Right .
Speaker 1If you can't tell me what your chains are rated for on your truck , you're not at the first step . If you can't tell me what that slings rated for whether that be vertical , you know then you're not ready for that next step , right , so it's so important , but they don't realize that , they just go . Oh well , everything I've done I've been able to do , okay , but everything you've done has been guesswork yeah right .
Speaker 1Like you know , you and I talked back when , right when you started earlier career . Well , it looks heavy , so I'll put a snatch block on it . That's guesswork . Yeah , there is no rhyme or reason or other than just visually looking at it . You cannot tell me what the numbers were and why you needed it . It was guesswork . But a lot of new hires nowadays , nowadays , want that Like they want to go . Oh , I went three months and did all kinds of toes . I'm ready to do this and it's like no , you're not , like there's so much humbling that needs to happen .
Speaker 3Well , a lot of different ways . The towing industry has always been seen as the wild west right for the longest time , especially the light duty . You can make it through 20 , 30 years without knowing what your wire rope is rated for , what that sling is rated for , figuring out what your weakest link is I don't know if you can go 20 , 30 years . You will probably die on doing something stupid before then but I'm saying in the light duty stuff it's a lot easier to be um incompetent in that regard I'm in .
Speaker 3It's just as it's just stupid easy just to get in the truck and hook a line onto something and start pulling right , especially with how cheaply cars are built . You hook up your j-hook to that little uh horseshoe at the back of a honda civic on the spare tire holder underneath the trunk right , and you're like , oh well , that will break before any of my equipment does , because that's the weakest link and it's easy just to have that mentality and train of thought when doing the light stuff . But then once you get into operating a hundred thousand pound truck and lifting things up and over guard rails , over other obstacles , you got to really stand back and realize the scale of what you're doing . Because if you want to become a crane operator , you have to go to school , for that you've got to do an apprenticeship , for that you got to do a whole laundry list of things to become a crane operator well , aren't rotators just basically cranes with a different name and a slightly different skill set ?
Speaker 1Ooh , I'm not getting into that debate .
Speaker 3I'm not getting into that debate either . You know why they're not , I'll embrace it .
Speaker 1Do you know why rotators are not cranes ?
Speaker 3Because you don't need a license to operate a rotator . Nope , what do cranes do ? They pick things up and set things down . What do rotators do ? What do cranes do ? They pick things up and set things down . What do rotators do ?
Speaker 1rotate no , they pick things up and put things down , but they can also drag , they can also pull across . That's the main difference between a crane . A crane can only pick up and lift down and put that . That is the main , one of the main differences . But anyways , continue on with it . I probably made you lose your thought . I apologize yeah .
Speaker 3Um . So from the layman person out there they say well , that thing picks things up and puts things down , so does the crane . So that's pretty much a crane right .
And if you look at the skill requirements and what you need to be an actual crane operator compared to what you need to be a rotator operator in the towing industry , you can start realizing why the specific companies have these high limits or barriers to entry . I guess you could say , to make sure your skill set is up to task . Because if you screw something up and you misjudge , uh , working load limits in a light duty , you're risking yourself and maybe a bystander . But if you screw up in an 80 ton rotator with a semi-suspended , you're risking the lives of multiple people multiple people and oodles amount of more money and equipment , right , sure ?
Speaker 3plus that'll make the news . If you fuck something up in a one-ton truck , you might not make the news .
Speaker 1You might get lucky .
Speaker 3If a rotator flips over and kills two people , you're making the news nationwide .
Speaker 1No , 100% , and the towing industry is its own enemy in the sense that it has put people behind the wheel of trucks and equipment .
Speaker 1They should have never been behind the wheel of 100% and behind the wheel is one thing , behind the control is another . The wheel up 100 and behind the wheel is one thing , behind the controls another right and . And so you know there is steps that are you know , let's be honest being taken to help rectify that . And that's where we get into our next point that we want to talk about , the wonderful to see , a thing everybody hates unless you're in the province of ontario . And if you're in the province of Ontario , you still hate it even more because you are absolutely living it .
Speaker 1So the government has gotten good at making announcements when it comes to regulation change . So July 1st in Canada I wonder if it's the same in the States but July 1st and January 1st are when big changes come into effect . Now we have been well aware of changes that are coming into effect in Ontario for a while . This isn't new information that nobody knew . People knew it was coming . What was crazy is I recently checked . So , as of July 1st , we knew that tow operator licenses were going to be required , and we knew that to operator licenses were going to be required , and we knew that to apply for a tow operator's license there would be a mandatory training . Those were the two things that we knew . We knew what the tow license was going to cost Yep .
Speaker 2And we knew how to get one because we've been applying for them ahead of time .
Speaker 1All my staff has their tow licenses . There was no cost . That was made very clear . Here's the cost . If you apply before this date , before the July 1st , when it fully comes into effect , there is no cost .
Speaker 1You will have to pay that cost when the renewal comes up in three years . But what we didn't know is the mandatory training , and up until as late as Thursday I believe it was Thursday or Wednesday that I checked and I know people that checked on Thursday , the government and this is before a long weekend , don't forget . July 1st falls on a holiday Monday , so Friday at like 6 o'clock at night the announcement comes out for the mandatory training .
Speaker 3So June 28th at 8 o'clock . Yes , two full days . You had notice that are over a weekend . Zero business days .
Speaker 1Zero full days you had noticed that are over a weekend Zero business days . Zero business days over a holiday-long weekend 100% . So the post comes out and I've got some information here . Wreckmaster puts out a post visit towtruckdrivertrainingca to start your training or visit Ontario , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah . Learn more about the new requirements . So , as of friday , they announce okay , we have the training set up . Wreckmaster is the only certified company currently to do this .
Speaker 1Now I imagine there isn't a plan to have more um , but so far and I mean , you know you , rec master , if you're trying to make sure there isn't more , let's be honest , right , um , you don't need competition in the industry and if you can avoid it , you can avoid it . Um , but this is , like I said , friday of a long weekend and the cost comes up , and even the cost . The cost was hard to find , the cost was not head over to that website and the cost is posted right there . No , no , no , no . You got to create an account . Okay , I'm going to create account because I want to see this , but then to create account . This is freaking . Friday night , you're not in the office , you don't have access to everything . I'm out on my phone . You need my driver's license number , you need a photo of my dl , you need like a lot of information to create an account here . This isn't just . You know what I mean . Sign up for an email newsletter , so the uh . Luckily , there was a couple people through some groups on on social media and you can you can always appreciate how people come together on social media when it comes to things they don't like .
Speaker 1Um , there was somebody who had done like a video of all the screens and stuff and and showed the price and and I want to make this abundantly clear before we start because I'm worried it's going to come off this way I do not blame the company providing the training for the cost in which they apply . They have obviously done an analysis and the money required to set this up and do and to implement this and to manage this program . And , at the end of the day , they are not a nonprofit , they are not a government funded company . They need to make a profit , just like we do .
Speaker 1Okay , because I'm worried that I'm going to say some dumb things over the next little while and it's going to come out that I am angry at rec master . I love rec master . Right , I feel that they have . They have done their analysis and I am trusting that they have done their homework and that they're being as reasonable as possible with this . They came out with a cost of 849 dollars , or uh , sorry , my , my sheet is actually wrong here on your screen . It's I . It is 849 , not 845 .
Speaker 1I'm going to go back and change that okay so even that my whole math total might not might be a couple bucks off . I apologize , um , but it's 845 dollars . So 49 49 . The process on how this works now is wild and this is going to have major changes on the industry . Okay , so new hire that comes in after july 1st . Here's the policy . Here's the procedure .
Speaker 1In order to apply for a provincial license right , which is $195 , valid for three years , a tow operator , tow driver I hate that we have to call them drivers a tow truck driver is required to first complete the government required training . So , step one any new hire has to complete the government required training Through currently . Any new hire has to complete the government required training through . Currently Rec Master is the only place you can receive it From there . Once they complete that training , then they are required to spend out $195 for a provincial license that is good for three years .
Speaker 1Now the thing that's important about this right is we've looked . What happens if I don't ? What happens if I get a new employee ? I don't want to put that money out right away because I want to see if this employee is going to make it . I think that is a very valid concern under to see requirements vehicle impounded if no , or suspended certificate 14.1 . A police officer or inspector may important comment may detain a tow truck if the police officer or inspector is satisfied that a person was driving a tow truck on a highway at a time when A the person did not hold a valid tow driver certificate or , b the tow operator of the tow truck tow operator being the company did not hold a valid tow driver certificate or be the tow operator of the tow truck , tow operator being the company did not hold a valid tow certificate . Same a tow truck detained under subsection one shall , at the cost and risk of the tow operator . So again , now we went from May to shell be removed to a vehicle storage yard facility , is directed by a police officer or inspector and be impounded for seven days from the time it was detained . You can find this , all this information , on the Ontarioca laws website .
Speaker 1So you hire a new employee and you go I'm going to hold off on , I don't , I don't , I don't , I don't want to put this money out . Right front , that employee can not drive a tow truck until you have satisfied these requirements , which means you can not get a true evaluation of this , this person as a driver even . So , think about that . You can't like I mean technically a road test . Uh , it's a little tricky .
Speaker 1And the argument has been what do you define as a tow truck ? Can I bring them out in a flat ? You know , and there's always going to be these gray bullshit that we're trying to figure out , but they cannot drive a tow truck until they receive the provincial license . They cannot receive the provincial license until they receive the government required training . So who pays for this ? And I want to ask you , g , in a case like that , we're in an industry where we are already struggling to get good candidates . Now , all this money , should all this money be put out on the employee ? Do you see a balance with it ? Like what would your views be looking at that ? We're talking over a thousand dollars before you can even drive a tow truck in ontario as of July 1st 2024 .
So as an employee , like as a person looking for employment , I've had it multiple times . When I am applying to a new job , I expect okay , I probably won't get paid for the first three weeks if I get the job , or up to a month right .
Speaker 1Not get paid .
Speaker 3Right , because of how pay schedules normally work . You normally start and you don't the pay oh , because there's a delay .
Speaker 1Yeah , your time is still being paid , it's just exactly so you don't get your first paycheck , normally for the first month that you work two , three weeks possibly .
Speaker 3Yeah , so going into a new job with that you're already okay . Well , whatever money I have in the bank , I gotta make that last another month because a lot of people , let's be honest , don't have a good amount of savings , especially if they're switching jobs , of course it can have a good effect on your savings .
Speaker 3Yes , exactly so I come into this towing industry . I was like I want to give this a shot . Okay , well , before I can even get hired at this company , you want me to go out and spend a thousand , over a thousand dollars before you even hire me ?
Speaker 1before I even hire you and still have your three months probation , that I could . Can you , let's say from that side I could , can you before your your time's even up ? Exactly , I'm gonna go tell you to go fuck yourself no , realistically , you gotta really want in the towing industry for that to be worth it and how , like this is my biggest issue .
Speaker 3So let's just take um when you go and get a d license , you get a temporary d license after you do your road test and you gotta do additional training until you get a full d license . Right , you can do both courses at the same time if you do some things . But if you challenge the test , you get a temporary license . Then you got to go do more training . We really should have something like that in the towing industry , where you apply for the towing , the provincial required license , you pay that , you pay your 200 . It's a lower barrier , barrier to entry , and that's good for six months . After that , six months , let's say . Let's just say you get one uh renewal on that , so you get a full year before you have to go and do the required testing okay , I like your idea .
Speaker 1I think your time frame is a little off , but I like the idea .
Speaker 3Yeah , right so because , as a company , in that regard , if I got to hire someone new , it's costing me not just . I could send them and do this training , which is $849 at RecMaster , and I could pay to get them their license , which I really think it's your license , that you are a holder of . You should probably pay that I might subsidize some of it . Right , you are a holder of . You should probably pay that I might subsidize some of it , right ? Um , but then if I send them to do this training , does that mean I don't need to train them anymore ?
Speaker 1well , probably not no , you're still gonna have to , you're still gonna have to do onboarding .
Speaker 3It's not . I'm sure it's probably a weekend course , rec masters putting on like a two , maybe three day course .
Speaker 1Whatever the case , I've got to look because it's not an in-person 90 of it . Oh , it's not in person .
Speaker 3No , no , no , no , no no oh yeah nay , nay , yeah , oh , yeah , um that changes things . That changes a lot of things . So what ? What stops me from paying for this course and just having it on a hard drive and redoing it ? Just , I have , to guess , pay that money again to get the actual certificate I guess there's very similar .
Speaker 1Um , no , there is a like a accreditation process that has to be done . Um , it doesn't say it just has an evaluation . You can trust an evaluation stand . Our evaluation stand out as the hallmark of credibility and professionalism , as they are proctored and approved by all requisite regulatory bodies . We prioritize . We prioritize the integrity of our assessment process , ensuring that each evaluation is conducted under strict supervision inherent to industry standards , by aligning our practices with guidelines set forth by the regulatory authorities .
Speaker 1It's a lot of just bullshit that doesn't go anywhere yeah , because you just set the standards yeah , yeah , you were part of setting these standards um but I don't have an account yet to actually go in and see what it consists of the whole thing is just weird right now , like Like I have a really bad feeling about this .
Speaker 3Um a , I'm not in the industry anymore , so I feel like I probably won't get back into the industry , at least as a tow truck driver , just because of all this bullshit . And , to be fair , it's it doesn't seem like that high of a barrier to entry for me because I have experience . But at the same time , I've got experience I've done the job for seven , eight years , however long it was . Why am I going to start doing all this bullshit now just because the government tells me that I need it and I've done the job prior , right ? So in that regard , it's like I don't know . There's so much new regulation , especially since I got out of the industry . I would get back in . I'd feel completely new again because there's so much new things that I gotta actually sit down and learn now .
Speaker 3To be frank , I know a fair bit of it just because of the show and everything that we've talked about , but from , let's say , someone else got out of the industry last year and towing is that job where it's something that a lot of people always fall back on , because no matter where you go , there's always towing companies looking for drivers . So let's say I want to move to Alberta and I want to open a business in Alberta . I get out there and I can't open the business right now because that market's just not there . What I thought it was , well , I can probably tow in the meantime , it's a good thing to there , and oh , I can't open the business right now because that market's just not there . What I thought it was ? Well , I can probably tow in the meantime , right , it's a good thing to fall back on . And something like this if that person was in alberta , coming to ontario , it's not as simple .
Speaker 1Just oh , go get a job at a towing company , right so I do have a bit of the syllabus and a bit of the structure . I have managed to find it through their website Ontario Tow Truck Driver Training Standard Best for tow truck drivers that operate in Ontario .
Online course length eight hours . In-yard training six hours .
Speaker 1Oh , so there is some in-yard , okay there has to be , but I don't know what it is . I believe it's with somebody else . That's what I don't fully understand , because they're not sending in a trainer down just for six hours . Yeah , um , so the training course ? They . Upon completing the training course , individuals are required to pass certification exam . The exam tests candidates knowledge of the towing procedure . Uh , I did get their syllabus . And when we go down to uh , I did get their syllabus . And when we go down through everything and I can go through quickly just what the sections are I won't go into each individual subsection Course participants are required to complete the training in the following order the online course , section 1 to 8 , passing each section quiz with an 80 or higher to progress to the next section .
Speaker 1Section 9 , in-yard training . Active participation in hands-on and practical skills assessment . Final multiple choice evaluation A hundred question multiple choice evaluation . A grade of 80% or higher is needed to pass . Upon completion of the final evaluation , students will be notified of their grade , as well as any incorrect answers . As well as any incorrect answers . Hmm , it is easier to get the right or responsibility to drive a truck in the province of Ontario or a car than it is to operate a tow truck . And don't get me wrong Again , I think a lot of this is required . I just feel like the government has absolutely pooched this thing so hard . Yeah , that is going to be a damn near impossible to come back from . So the course outline is section one introduction to tow industry vehicles , tow truck driving terms and licensing requirements and compile compatibility of light duty towing vehicle . Section two safe working environments . Health safety it includes hazards and cleanup , biohazards , work-related trauma and self-care . Maybe not the worst .
Speaker 1Three transportation legislation , regulations and policies . So requirements of C of CBO are your GBCR , your G V , w , r , tow capacities , load securements , lightings requirements and the towing and storage Safety and Enforcement Act . Four on-scene protocols the tow operators' role and emergency response teams and temporary condition requirements . Five on-scene safety measures and management Coordinate with emergency services and dispatch planning ahead to anticipate problems and safe practices . Six towing win winching , extrication techniques , securement , uh calculating towing loads , towing vehicle equipment , safe hook techniques , car carrier loading , loading techniques for motorcycles and trikes , hostile terrain and resistant factors this is all the in-person or online .
Speaker 1Between the two .
Speaker 3Okay .
Speaker 1Between the two . Oh no , sorry , this is all the online . Okay . Roadside services , non-towing services , professionalism , customer service and documentation . They have a typo on their website Safe driving practices , cooperative and safe tow operation , equipment capacities and maintenance . Safely removing hazardous material and debris debris keeping up with the trends . Section nine in yard training , six hours at the location of your choice . So very interesting at the location of your choice , so something .
Speaker 3I wonder if I could get a job and go and train people for six hours at random locations I think you could now .
Speaker 1Anyone hiring you to train people for six hours at random locations , I think you could Now anyone hiring you to train people is a scary thought on its own , and if they call me for a reference , I'm not likely to be the best person to put down .
Speaker 3Other licensing fields , especially for licenses you can get if you are a valid license holder for X amount of years , you can get a signing authority .
Speaker 1Yeah , like a train the trainer , which I think is what the plan will ultimately be here .
Speaker 3But , again .
Speaker 1Then it goes unregulated again .
Speaker 3Yeah Right , it goes way unregulated because , okay , I've been been let's say I've done this for five years and I go and get my signing authority and I buy this course and I sit them down in a classroom in front of this video . Now each company will have their own designated trainer to keep costs down . Because you'll say , okay , well , we'll provide the new employee free training , right , but we won't pay you during this in-class bullshit . So you got eight hours of computer and you got six hours in the field , so two-day training . You don't get paid for that , but it's free training and you'll get a license . You still have to pay the $200 for your license , or however that works right . And then you have no governing body because there is no third party test , just like anything , really well , there's got to be a third party somewhere through this that's why I don't fully understand how it how it works , so I'm in , though continue yeah , this is .
Speaker 3It's a mess . And of course we we knew something like this was coming , but the time frame that they gave us . So let's say you , someone called in on friday and said , hey , I would like a job . You say , okay , come in for an interview on monday or tuesday and , uh , we'll start getting you sorted . Well , now you can't , because you can't even put them in a truck tuesday . Now you gotta . I wonder what the availability is like for this . Like , how far out is this train ?
Speaker 1That's my question and that is why , like , I think one of the big things and it's something definitely we'll have to touch back on because , like you know , we're going to need to go through it and and , and you know , get registered .
Speaker 3Okay , so in that $845 , they say at a location of your choice . What happens when someone up in Manitoulin Island says , okay , well , I need someone to come and train this guy in Manitoulin Island ? Is there going to be an added fee for distance , because Ontario is a big province ? If everyone's located down in Toronto or Niagara , ottawa .
Speaker 1Ottawa , yeah , all your big cities , yeah .
Speaker 3Right , niagara , ottawa , what you're on ? Yeah , all your , all your big cities . Yeah right , that guy might have to drive 24 hours north just to get to a northern towing company to do six hour training .
Speaker 1Like that doesn't well , and that's where , like I said , it's still kind of in the air . They're still missing something on this . I know there is because , like you , you can't you're right , you cannot send this one-off company um , you know what I mean like send them out there for one , one person , to get trained no it just doesn't make sense .
Speaker 3No , doesn't make financial .
Speaker 1I don't know what's what's going to come of it . Um , it is still a lot up in the air . Obviously they've added the cost and that's you know , and it's a big cost . You throw that in the licensing cost , the uh , you know , and then the two weeks to train them in house , yeah in house , um it , it can really like , and then they don't last more than two weeks .
Speaker 3Yeah , you know , I mean like it's definitely a risk that really in-house training should be doubled because you got to pay an operator to train yeah , well , the operator training them , though at the same time is is getting is getting some calls done normally , yeah , but he's going to be a lot slower , you know .
Speaker 1What is very interesting is when you do visit the website , so I have registered for those that are interested . While we're having this conversation , you see Ontario Tow Truck Driver and Training Standard , and then you see Quebec , Nova Scotia , New Brunswick , Manitoba all coming soon . Oh . So I think we could see that this is the standard that is going , and we kind of knew that too . This is the standard that is going to be put across the province .
Speaker 3Across the country .
Speaker 1Or across the country , sorry . So so you guys in the States .
Speaker 3When Colorado starts doing some janky shit with uh licensing and bullshit , pay attention to that , even if you don't live in that state , because you never know when the federal body might say hey , that's a good idea , what they're doing there in colorado , let's mandate that federally I just really want to see I'm trying to get a little bit more information on the in yard training and how that works . Yeah .
Speaker 1Select your yard , your yard training location . Upload in yard certificate . So select your yard training . Okay , so maybe there is a way that you can have like a train the trainer program . Yeah .
Speaker 1Um , it doesn't fully , it doesn't fully try stay or say sorry , well , I just can't speak . Um , so , anyways , well , we will see , it's mandatory now . There ain't no coming back from it . So we did have a quick , you know , government training 845 , provincial required license 195 , valid for three years , and that's something that I think the employee is going to have to pay . I think at least the toast certificate the employee is going to have to pay because that is theirs . If they leave your company to go to another company , that certificate carries with them , right ? So it does make sense in that , in that way , the training I think it's going to have to be something that's going to be on an agreement of some sort .
Speaker 3You know , I don't know what that agreement you might start seeing contracts , say , okay , you gotta sign this contract and be here for X amount of years to pay off this drink A year .
Speaker 1A year , and we will absorb the cost of this . Anything less than a year you're required to pay out of your final paycheck . Yeah . Which , again , is just going to put more stress and possibly you , you know push people away more from wanting to get into our industry and you will end up having guys who might realize a month in that this isn't for them .
Speaker 3But they're going to do the absolute bare minimum and stick out that year to try to get fired so they don't have to pay that money out of their pocket , right ?
Speaker 1but I like your . I like the idea that you should almost apply for , like a towing learner's permit . Yep . That is valid for maybe only like three months . Yep .
Speaker 1And you pay that it's a fraction of the other fee , or fucking leave it the same fee , I don't even care . I think it's reasonable for 195 within that three months , and maybe renewable once , like you said . Like you said , or extendable ones . You are required to complete that training Right , and then if you do not complete that training at the end of it , your license is then suspended . You no longer have a tow operator certificate Once your training is complete . You can then apply at any point within that first three months for a full three year permit .
Speaker 1Once your training is complete . I think that is a very reasonable approach and I think that is something that would probably have brought it got brought up if the government actually sat down with its stakeholders , Like I said it did , that weren't the insurance company and weren't you know what I mean the , the MTO and everything , and I actually sat with towers and said , hey look , this is what we're thinking of doing . Right , you came up with that idea on the spot . Yeah .
Speaker 1Imagine if they actually took the into account the towing industry and listen to people and go , hey , maybe this will make more sense , maybe this is something we can work on , maybe all that kind of stuff . So if you are a tower in the province of ontario , we do wish you luck as we continue on through these wonderful new times that are facing us yeah um , have your say on it .
Speaker 1What do you think of the desia ? If you're an american state and you want to see what your future could hold I know you guys are facing all your own problems down there you're seeing . You're seeing the future right now . You are seeing . Don't think that this is going to be exclusive to canada . You know north america tends to bring in a lot of very similar policies and procedures . This could be next up . So I know certain states actually do require a towing license , but it is a very different practice to get . It is through like almost like a driver's license , a written test you have to go for um , and I'm willing to bet it doesn't cost 845 plus the 200 for the license .
So , on behalf of myself and my wonderful co-host , mr toman g , we do thank you . Don't forget towing life at gmailcom , towinglifeca . Towinglife podcast on Facebook or leave your comment down below on YouTube . We thank you for joining us for episode 142 , and we can't wait to see you again next week . Take care .
Speaker 1Toodles you actually came up with a really good idea . You should have been on the panel discussion . They should have taken what you said and thought about it . Yeah , they should have , and I have that recording so that you can have that for me to say I got a gold star I got gold star from daddy playing guy fuck the towing industry . It's all over the place .