Restless Ones - Pueblo Incense House of Prayer
A production of the Pueblo Incense House of Prayer. Our mission is to help normal believers sustain a life of worship and prayer by exploring what the scriptures say about the urgency of the hour we live in as well as how to grow in intimacy with God.
Restless Ones - Pueblo Incense House of Prayer
Friendship, Prayer, and the Long Obedience | A Conversation with Eric Gomez
In this episode of the Restless Ones Podcast, Zac sits down with longtime friend and ministry partner Eric Gomez for a candid and encouraging conversation about sustaining a life of prayer and worship. From early garage prayer meetings to corporate prayer rooms, missions work overseas, and leadership in the local church, this episode explores how prayer shapes identity, friendship, and long-term faithfulness to Jesus.
Eric shares powerful stories of answered prayer, including moments where corporate intercession led to real-world breakthrough, along with honest reflections on the joys, challenges, and blind spots within the prayer movement and missions movement. Together, they discuss why prayer works, how God responds to desperate and aligned hearts, and what it means to move beyond spiritual echo chambers to see the whole Body of Christ thrive.
This conversation is especially for anyone longing to grow in prayer, lead sustainable prayer meetings, or remain faithful through seasons of dryness, fatigue, or transition. If you’re passionate about Christian prayer, worship, intercession, or building a lifelong rhythm of intimacy with God, this episode will both ground and inspire you.
Topics Covered:
• Sustaining a daily prayer life
• Corporate prayer and intercession
• Worship and spiritual formation
• Prayer rooms and house of prayer culture
• Missions, local church, and unity in the Body of Christ
• Why God answers prayer
• Avoiding burnout and spiritual elitism
All right. Well, welcome back to another episode here of the podcast. Um, Restless Ones Podcast. We have some friends with us in the room today. Excited to have a live studio audience. So who knows what's going to happen?
SPEAKER_01:Live from Pueblo. Live from Pueblo.
SPEAKER_00:And we've got our good friend Eric Gomez here, good friend of mine. Excited to have you, bro. Um. If you've listened to the podcast or if you've been around our community, you've definitely heard Eric's voice at some point. He's taught a number of times here. And um I wanted to just bring him in today and talk about prayer, talk about his history and prayer and some of some of his journey. I'll I'll begin by saying that I I've known Eric for half of my life at this point, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_01:Don't say stuff.
SPEAKER_00:That's wild. Half of my life I've known Eric.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know how I feel about that.
SPEAKER_00:I know. It makes me feel really old. Um but I the reason I met Eric was because I was hosting a prayer meeting in my parents' garage when I was 16 years old, and Eric was the only one who showed up for a while. It was me, Eric, our good friend Micah, who's a worship pastor here in town. And it was like the three of us who were just doing prayer meetings. Shout out Micah. Yeah, shout out Pastor Micah. But anyway, he showed up and then just kind of never left. And I feel like, Eric, you've been one of I mean, you've been the most consistent prayer friend, if that's a thing, that I've had for legitimately half of my life at this point. And so um, I don't know, I just would love to chat about that and jump in.
SPEAKER_01:You've also been one of my most consistent prayer friends, too. So right back at you. Come on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like we've we've been in such a variety from those garage days, which were raw, and you just never know what was going to happen in those days, to prayer meetings on tours across the nation, to some of the worst prayer meetings we've ever had, to 12, 12-hour prayer meetings, 24-hour prayer meetings, to the ones in local churches. I mean, we've just done them everywhere all the time. So I I think I just want to begin with a bit of a a story, a bit of your personal journey when it comes to prayer and corporate prayer. And maybe that starts in those garage days, maybe it starts before, but I'll just kind of let you take it away.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, totally. Uh thanks. Good to be on here with you. Talk about prayer. One of my favorite things. I I think one of the things I always tell people about our friendship is that prayer following Jesus was the central thing in our friendship, and that's why we're still friends. Yeah, come on. So, like I always tell people uh my my deep good quality friendships are the people that I have labored with in the place of prayer, or have cried with in a prayer room, or have laughed in a prayer room with because something so bad happened that you just can't recover from it and you just laugh. And yeah, man. So it's good to be here and chat with you and everybody in the room. So, yeah, I think for me, um prayer was something, even just growing up when I was younger, that was in my life in some way or another. I think my mom would always take us to like uh charismatic Spanish churches. I remember younger, or just uh just hey, we're gonna contend and ask the Lord to do something and believe, and I decree to do santo. Yeah, I decree and declare in the name of Jesus. Like a lot of those areas were just uh convinced me, even at a young age, that there was something happening in the room that you know you went in there and you know, where two or three are gathered, he's in the midst. I like didn't know where that was in scripture, but I knew it was in there for the longest time, and just was yeah, brought up in that. And I think what was so funny is when I heard you and Micah were gonna start gathering in your garage and worship and pray, that I don't know how, but that was not a weird idea to me. Come on, like that felt like, oh yeah, I love Jesus. Like, I have to read my Bible, I have to worship Jesus, and I have to talk to him and pray. And even though I believed it didn't mean I was doing it well. So let me just say that. Like, I knew conceptually, like, duh, but also, you know, like that was a place even in high school that really was being put and instilled and worked on. Like, even though it was like not weird, I still definitely was like, Oh, I had not worked that muscle. Sure. But yeah, that is something I think, and I I go back to those like garage days, and I think that's what really set the trajectory and put um the weight and validity of going into ministry and like saying, Hey, not only do I want to do this in my life rhythms, but do this vocationally and really see other people give themselves to this and um convince people that this is a worthwhile pursuit and young people and little kids and all the ministries I'm a part of, uh from diapers to adult diapers. Uh I want, you know, that group of people praying and communing with the Lord and having dialogue with him. Uh so yeah, young age did it, did it in high school with you in the garage. And like you said, it kind of just shifted where I was praying. Not like I feel like I did the same thing all throughout my life, just in different locations. So I went from your garage here in Pueblo, I went to uh Every Home for Christ in Colorado Springs when we were driving from down here's prayer room to up there's prayer room and said, Hey, let's pray in different spots. And uh did that to joining a missions organization where I was like, Hey, let me pray in Nepal too. So I went from every home from Christ to Nepal, did that for a while, and now I'm praying in Colorado Springs at Boulder Street Church. So obviously there's a little nuances, a little different in that, but that has been the the consistent theme of being with people that believe prayer does something, he listens, he answers, he responds, and he changes you in the midst of praying.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So good. I I think you have such a a wide perspective of uh prayer, the context of prayer on the earth, because you've you've done it in the garage, you've done it on the mission field, you've done it for the local church, and in all of those areas, you've been a significant player or a significant role in each of those. You're especially important on Mondays at noon at Boulder Street Church, that's for sure. Oh, yeah. We lead a set together there, and he he he uh helps lead worship for that one, and it's awesome. Um but I think just uh the perspective that you have is unique. A lot of times, people who are committed to prayer, they they have sort of one context for it, and it's pretty similar throughout a lot of their life. It's at their church, it's in their own prayer closet, and they don't see the wide perspective. And so just thinking about your your um vantage point, I think that's what I'm looking for. It's it's just exciting. And I every time that we talk about prayer, your perspectives, and even when we talk about house of prayer things here or whatever wherever it might look like, whatever, whatever little journey side quest we get ourselves into, it always involves prayer, but I just I feel like you're somebody who has a vantage point that is trustworthy because you see more than just the little zoomed-in view that a lot of people often see. And so um before talking about some deeper things, let's talk about some of the funny moments. Oh, goodness. If you can pick out one or two. What are what are some of your funniest prayer room moments? Maybe it's in the garage, maybe it's on the mission field. I don't know. Just yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um I'm gonna go actually to Every Home for Christ. When I was a part of a missions organization up there, um I I had just joined their their mission school. And one of the things they do in the first week is they kind of teach you uh they teach you some basic missions stuff, like why the need for missions and why the need to go and all those things, and and they kind of just throw those on you, all the information, and then at the end of the week, they put you in a prayer room for like uh it was a whole work day. So I think we got in at like 7 a.m. and left at like 4 p.m. something like that. But during that time, uh not skill level kind of went down as you got through to the end of the day. Yeah, the heart was there, you know, all the good stuff. But after a while, probably at like 1, 2 p.m., you're like slap happy. You've you've had the moments where you've cried. They like give you some questions of like, hey, what how does the Lord feel about you going overseas? They, you know, just a ton of questions that you process through, pray through, talk with the Lord. And they're like, hey, just stay in there, try not to leave. Go to the bathroom, of course, get some food if you need to. But they're like, hey, we should fast that day. So they're like, you can get food if you want. If you're less spiritual, yeah, if you're less spiritual, like if you if you don't love the Lord, go get food. Um, so it's like 2 30, and we're having a person, I like remember them, like playing the same two chords, singing the same like melody line, like not really going anywhere, and you're just like, all right, we just gotta get through this. So we're all just standing up, we're pacing, like it looks like we're doing a like uh a conga line, just trying to stay awake. But one of my buddies, there's a couch that you would fight to in this prayer room to get to a real comfy couch. So he beat us there and got to the couch. He had been holding that spot down. Well, at like one or two, he's pretty tired. So he's like dozing off. He's falling asleep, and I'm like, oh, if you're gonna fall asleep, you're gonna pay for it.
SPEAKER_04:Oh man.
SPEAKER_01:So we're doing that, and I wait. I wait till like the transition time, and they're like transitioning people, and he's out, and we're all like dead quiet. So I like gently walk up to him and I put my hand right over his head, and I'm like, fire of God, come above, and he just goes, and we're all like fighting to not erupt laughing while they're like transitioning. Oh yeah. Because that's the big when I like start doing mischievous stuff in the prayer room. I make sure it doesn't affect a lot of people or what's going on in the room. Yeah, but got them, got them pretty good on that one. That's amazing. So that's amazing. Um, one of my more popular things, I don't do it as much now. I already know. I already know. One of my popular things to do was if people were putting their hands out or hands up, I'd just give them a high five. Like, hey, the Lord sees what you're doing, and I just want to encourage what God's doing in your heart. So if people had their hands up, they're getting a high five. Or if they had their hands like they were receiving a gift, yeah, I may put a gift there for them, like a box of tissues or something like that. And I was just ready to go for them. So those are kind of just some of the first things that come to mind when I think of like just the things like when you feel like you're disengaging a little, something to just kind of you know, restart the palate and get you going again. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:I I think that you've you've helped me enjoy prayer. And there's so much biblical precedent for enjoying prayer. It's right. I it's Isaiah 56. I'll bring them to my holy mountain and there will be joy. And sometimes we can get to the place of prayer and intercession, and we're like carrying the heavy stuff. We're praying for the ending of sex trafficking in Taiwan, and we've got our prayer face on and we're just ready to go. But I think that there's something to just being authentically you in prayer meetings where we don't have to put on a performance face and like always have the prayer face on and look so grumpy and so mean.
SPEAKER_02:Totally.
SPEAKER_00:And I just always appreciate how you always bring a little a little extra flavor to the to the prayer meeting.
SPEAKER_01:I think uh story I was thinking of. So um, you've been in the prayer room of EHC at the gap, but they would have a couple like tables you could sit at and work, and then they had a drum enclosure, and then you know, the stage. And I think even just what you're talking about, I remember I would sit by that drum enclosure because it was just a nice little spot, but also my friend Baylor would play drums, so while he was playing, I'd like look at him and like ask him to do stuff and see if he could like fit it in. And we'd have those like silly encounters, but I remember doing that, and then like at the same time, we'd go into I remember specifically, there was a EHC location in I think Juarez, and it was when all the gang violence was like happening and asking for open doors into the midst of all that violence, and I I like feel pretty confident confident that was the day I was jacking around and doing stuff, but knowing also like when it shifted, when the mood shifted, and there was like people like crying out for breakthrough in Mexico, yeah, like and praying for the EHC workers that were having to be like wise as they were like trying to have the gospel go forth, but also trying not to, you know, get caught in the middle of stuff, right? Like needing God to move and just feeling like um the sway of the Holy Spirit of just like no, this is a time to like lean in and press in and actually believe for something to happen there, and how it like as much as I have a like joking around, jacking around, like natural inclination, like it was even hard for me to be like, oh, I can't this ain't the moment. Like, uh like I gotta lock in right here and like join in with everybody and ask the Lord to do something to to break in in those areas, yeah. Which is so crazy. It would just shake me out of that and to be like, no, like we have to press in here. There's something, there's something higher up that we're we're touching and interacting with and what the God w what God wants to do on the earth that just brings sobriety to the moment, which is so crazy.
SPEAKER_00:So good. Now give me a a time or multiple times, maybe where you prayed for something in the prayer room, you were in a prayer meeting, and then you saw the result.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I think I always go back. I think we probably talk about this one so much, but it it was so faith-building um when we prayed for the ending of sex trafficking here in Pueblo. Like I think we that was kind of in the time where we were like, hey, we're gonna step out in faith, like make sure we come weekly. And I think a lot of it at that time was building maturity in our prayer life, building maturity in our rhythms with the Lord, our habits. And I think a lot of the stuff before was us really just being faithful, like learning how to be faithful to something and being consistent with something. But I feel like that was one of the first things we started praying for. That we were like, no, I think God could do something if we lean in on this. Yeah, like I think if we are serious about this, sober about it, and you know, carry the heavy things and say God wants to see. That was one of the things we would pray for that would always lead us to like all start crying, or you know, just the the screaming prayer meetings. Our sound system wasn't good, and we were screaming, so it was like extra piercing. That's for sure. But I feel like that was the one thing that the Lord in that season really gripped our hearts on and was like, no, we gotta take this seriously, and then praying that and then seeing and learning about it, like finding out that I-25 was like one of the main ways that sex trafficking happened, and it got real serious for us, and we were like, no, this is like I would remember we would be like pretty chill, and then we'd walk into our like pre-briefs and be like, no, this is like business time, like we're we're we're doing something. We take on the responsibility and the partnership that the Lord is giving us, and we're gonna pray. Yeah, and then I I just remember that one night we all I think it was a Saturday night, Sunday or Friday night, one of those, and we prayed. And the next day we saw it on the news, yeah, that like a massage parlor with sex trafficking stuff, like a hundred people who got arrested. Yeah, there was like a sting operation, and they like caught a bunch of people. And that was the moment I think really, like uh I knew prayer was like self like formation. It formed something in me. It made me look like God, act like God, care about the things God cared about. That was the moment I think for me where I saw, oh, God moves at the sound of our voice. Like we heard that so many times growing up, especially me in a charismatic. Like I said, I heard and knew in my mind that this was like what you did. I think that was the moment where I like felt the authority given to us as believers to say, like, when we pray, God responds in power to our prayers. And I that was the moment where I was. Like, oh, I gotta take this seriously. Like, this is something I want people to get, and this is something I want to do and not feel hesitation when I ask for something. Yeah. To like be like, well, God, do this. I mean, if you want, if you like me, if if I'm saying it the right way. If it's your will. If I'm over like the 500-word count, and I used a couple of these and all those kind of things, like you know, but that was the one that was like, no, I think it like a desperate heart moves God. Come on. And I think a heart open, a heart contrite, like I think that like subject broke our heart multiple times over, and we just wanted God to do something. And seeing that was like, oh, he we aligned our heart with him, and then we did work with him. Like it was so cool, it was so powerful to see that. And even I remember like going and praying for locations and praying for people of peace. That was like one of the most popular things we prayed for people of peace, that somebody would have an open door to talk to people to get in, and just seeing like stepping into that. I was like, oh, if God can like we can pray and see a successful like sting operation, yeah, of course, God can set up divine appointments or relational things that we would have an open door to talk to more people at the universities as like people are language learning in different countries. Like, why couldn't he? Why not why not? And that was such a like crucial canon event for me to like really walk into those prayer meetings and feel the gift of faith, like, yeah, you can do it. Let's lean in. Why not?
SPEAKER_00:So good. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that story. And I think back to how our community then was so small. Our community now is small, but yeah, it was me, you, Chelsea, a couple other people, and that was that was it. Yeah, but we had the shared burden for that, for whatever reason. We all got there, but we would show up. I I'll never forget before days that we prayed for the ending of sex trafficking. The moment I would wake up, it would be like intense spiritual warfare. I'd be throwing up all day and like just feeling the weight of it. We tried to take matters into our own hands. I'll never forget that one night it's we knew that there was this one massage place in town where there was trafficking going on, and we showed up. We they were open at 10 p.m. Yeah, and so we're like, all right, we're gonna show up, we're gonna do something. And I'll never forget my hand was on the door. We were about to open the door, and it was like the Holy Spirit just showed up and it was like, go home.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, go home.
SPEAKER_00:And so we went home and and I mean we carried that burden together, and I and I truly believe that it was that desperation. We we realized there's actually nothing we can do about this scenario. Yeah, and so all that we were able to do was to cry out in desperation, and God moved. And so I just believe that. But makes me want to ask you this question: what what makes prayer effective? What why does God answer some prayers?
SPEAKER_01:Why does God answer? That's that's a good question. And I feel like I feel like in the economy of prayer, that's something I I always um have wrestled with, even as someone that like wants people to pray. That's something I always go back to, or something I'm asked about, and I'm like always like kind of gnawing it over and chewing it over. But I I think I think one of the very simple things is prayer makes us look like Jesus, and prayer gives us a heart. And I think on the practical, like looking back even at that, uh what we were 20, 21 years old. Yeah, I think for me, yeah, oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00:Back before my back hurt. My back hurt, my back hurt.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, I think I realize as I as I'm getting older, I am so ill equipped, practically, yeah, like through education, through skill, just the needed skills to handle some of the big situations. And I think prayer in the in the spiritual is the level playing field where we can come there and whatever we are lacking, he is not. Uh heart posture, caring about the thing, uh, skill, like all of those things, like in that if we come to prayer, we can slowly grow in caring about it. And we might not have the skill, but he does. Yeah, he has the power to bring the right people into situations, to do things through dreams and all of those things, or to empower us to step out and do something that we've never done before. And I think it's relating with the God of the universe. I blessed are the poor in spirit, for those is the kingdom of heaven. I think prayer is where you realize, oh, I actually am lacking in a lot of areas, but I can go to him and receive the resources I need to actually see the obstacle moved. And I think sometimes the resources are I'm not like Jesus enough. And he's like, hey, let me help you grow in looking like me and living like me and acting like me to see these things happen in the way that I would intend, and the way that is best for God to be glorified and magnified. And that's what makes me come back. Yeah, it's the oh, I have unlimited relationship with my father in heaven, and he is willing to look at my deficiencies, even the ones I'm like in ashamed or embarrassed of, or the ones I'm like, I'm just not good at this.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And he's willing to relate with us and help us and give to us and actually change us and make us better in the process. Yeah. And I say it very generally, like sometimes it's like begrudgingly and hard, but that's why I go back. It's like, oh, he looks at me all the same and will still relate to me with patience, with love, with mercy, and with excitement. Like he's excited to help me through things, especially when I go to him first. He's like, Wow, thanks for choosing me as the best option because I am the best option. Let me help you do this now. Let me help you grow and look like me in all of it, which is so cool.
SPEAKER_00:So crazy to think about, too. So good. I loved it. You said that what I'm lacking, he's not. Yeah. That's everything. Yes. Like, Lord, let me let me acknowledge that poverty of spirit. I think here in our prayer room, one of the things we do every day is we pray prayers of alignment. Where essentially we're opening the Bible and we're saying, ooh, the Bible says we're called to walk in all these things. We're not. Oh Lord, help. Help. And I think that that has shifted our community in such a way where it sets us up to agree with him in intercession in a more effective way. We we come to him and we realize, okay, this is all about looking like you and walking in your image. Now we see who you are. We see who you've called us to be. Now let's agree together in that. And I think it's transformed the way we've prayed here in this community.
SPEAKER_01:What I love about that too is okay, like you pray for the areas that you're disaligned and feel lacking. But when the power of God comes, my favorite thing in those moments, like when I feel like I'm getting revelation in a prayer meeting, or feel like the Lord's touching my heart, my favorite thing is whatever I'm receiving revelation in is to turn that immediately into intercession.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Is like, okay, I feel like the Lord is really highlighting identity to me. He's I feel like he's opening my mind right now and showing the identity I'm lacking in the areas I need to grow in and the areas he's championing me in.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And my favorite thing to do is let's pray for a certain group of people that aren't feeling that because you know how much in that moment, just five, 10 minutes ago, how it shifted your heart. Pray that for someone else now. So good. Like freely you've received, freely you give. You know, and just I think that is so awesome. Like that the ways we align, like in that moment, you're receiving the spirit, the testimony of Jesus' spirit. If he's willing to talk to you about that, yeah, and give you insight in that moment, why couldn't he do it to the person that's outside of these four walls? Yeah. And I think you're seeing a firsthand moment of, oh, if he does it to me, why can't he do it to that other person?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's no wonder like alignment prayers supercharger prayer maybe like that immediately shows God is doing something, not do it in the next person. Yeah, do it one, double it and give it to the next person, you know. Like, seriously. Like, do you want that all for you, or do you want to double it and give it to the next person? Double it and give it to the next person. See them have breakthrough and identity or an anxiety or whatever. Those kind of things. Like, I think that's so cool. And I I even try to tell like our youth group that like we'll learn something, we'll talk about it, we'll say, okay, let's get it to our heart, and then let's pray it out. Like pray it past you, you know, which is so cool.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, heck yeah. Man, you ready to start a little bit of trouble?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, of course. Okay. Always, always, always.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Nobody likes when their blind spots are revealed to them. Yes. We're all in denial because we've all got it put together and we've all got it figured out. Well, as somebody who has spent all of my ministry life in a prayer room, primarily, of course, have done other things, youth ministry. Somehow I'm a worship director. But we've done trench ministry together. Trench ministry. Yeah. Oh man. We're talking youth ministry next hour. Yeah. We'll switch scenes. Oh my goodness. So as somebody who has been in the prayer movement for uh half of my life at least, here's what I've learned. I have a lot of blind spots. And sometimes those blind spots I don't recognize until they're pointed out to me by somebody who has a different vantage point. And so I would love if you shared, because you've seen, again, huge vantage point. Mission field, local church, prayer room, missions organizations, and garages. You've got this vantage point, and you've seen it all, you've been involved. What are some of those blind spots maybe that you've seen within the prayer movement specifically?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it's a great question and a humble question. Like a lot of times I think, and this is this feels like it's cheating, but I think this is the foundational blind spot is that we're not commingling with different perspectives. I think the the missions people stay in their corner of the world, the prayer people stay in their corner of the world, the church people stay in their corner of the world, and so on and so forth. And I think the foundational area that leads to blind spots is um we stay in our lane, like our corner of the world and actually don't allow for other perspectives to come in. And another perspective is an attack on our way of life. I think so many times, like it was like just people frustrated with things not happening or people not doing a certain thing, and like, oh, like you're just not helping me push the ball forward, so I don't want to do it. And I think a lot of times we have to build relationships with people that aren't necessarily gonna push the ball forward for us, but it's another perspective and having people that you love that don't run always in the same lane.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that was like such a launching point for me is when I could bring those things in my own life together. Of like being in a prayer room for you know five plus years and then going on the mission field, like having the resource of trusting prayer on a mission field is so important.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:But then being missional and saying, hey, prayer people, like we need your guys' prayers to do that, like unifying those things. And even me, like I felt it. Like I was working at a missions organization, I was in a prayer room, like you know, like 20 hours a week, something somewhere around that. And I thought, oh, I have it all together. So was pulling myself away from the church because I was like, oh, this is my group, this is my, but that can so easily become an echo chamber of just the the same thoughts reverberating on the wall and just getting louder and louder when you need kind of every once in a while just that one dissonant sound to just be like, wait a second, hold on, right, where is that coming from? And I think what's tough is like people that do ministry vocationally have a hard time just sitting and listening and just uh doing the church rhythms without uh I'm gonna say something a little without financial like sure payback on it. Like I remember so many times I was, like I said, working, and I would only go to church if they were paying me to go play.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:But then I'd sit there and be like, I don't want to listen to this message. It's so like surface level and blah blah blah. Like, why aren't they talking about like the eschatological repercussions of this act of obedience and blah blah blah? And those are all good. I'm so for that, but I think because we've siloed ourselves into our movements, yeah, that we have made our areas too sterile from mess. Because the church is mess, and a lot of times, like uh not all, this is very general, but a lot of times the the you know the extra ministry, the the ones that are doing just that have done that to go faster and farther and avoid a lot of the church mess. And I like I don't see anywhere in the Bible if you get there like faster or first than anyone, you've like get an extra metal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, come on.
SPEAKER_01:Like the whole bride has to be matured. Wow, you know what I mean? The whole the whole church body needs to come and know Jesus in a deep way, and the spirit and the bride, the the bride in totality, and I think we have tried to go far and fast that we have left a lot of the mess behind, and people are mess, so it's like you can only go so far if you're like leaving the the messiness of the church. I remember we started doing church mobilization, and we were so pumped to like go to churches and get them to start doing mission trips, start doing it yearly, and we were like, this is why aren't people doing this? This is like the hack. We're gonna go to all the churches, help their young adult groups, lead worship, and then they're gonna go on the field, and it's gonna be fantastic. And I remember so many times, tired youth pastors, young adult pastors, that they're like, that is so deep on our heart to see people praying and going overseas. I'm trying to get them to read their Bible and come consistently, and you're telling me to tell them to raise money and to leave their life for three weeks. Yeah. In the 1040 windows. In the 1040 window, when they're still having like deep theological if they want to follow Jesus, and you're saying, hey, go overseas and tell like a devout Muslim that Jesus is real and let them sit there and spar. It's not gonna happen. And they're like, We're in the trenches. And I just remember like me and my friend like talking about it on the drive home of like, these guys are like deep in the trenches, deep in the struggle of trying to minister and disciple people, but our life is so clean, sterile, uh, of ease, of dealing with messy lives that we're just like, oh, just go, just go. And we weren't like relating with people. And yeah, I feel like we have something in the prayer movement, in the missions movement, in the uh feeding the impoverished movement, whatever movement, yeah. I think we have something to give to the church and help them walk through their mess and still do the life and rhythm that Jesus called us to. But I think for us, the benefit is that we don't let the thing we're doing vocationally or thing we're good at become an idol and see there's a lot of other things God wants to grow you in.
SPEAKER_04:Come on.
SPEAKER_01:Like, hey, you have a really like you've really worked your chest muscles in prayer and you're really built up here, but you haven't worked the legs of evangelism, of taking care of the poor, of loving your community.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then it builds, that's what I think leads to elitism. Right. Is like, oh, look at the like I've built these muscles up so much. And then like the missions person's like, bro, you have no leg muscles. What's going on? Yeah. And then like the other person's like, hey, you're so unbalanced, like, we're all unbalanced. Yeah. The church is the melting pot of where we have to work those things out together. So I guess to answer your question, it's like we're in an echo chamber and we don't give space for the mess or for pointing out our blind spots in that, which leads to all the other things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. What you're saying is so incredibly valuable. And in honesty, in vulnerability, I did not care one bit really about the missions movement until you until you went to Nepal. And then I cared because I had a friend who was there who was preaching the gospel. That's when I started to care that the gospel was being preached in Nepal. Before that, I was like, why don't you just go join a prayer room and pray that somebody goes, or I don't know, like pray that God shows up in a dream. I had no care for that. I didn't really care about the local church until I started working at local churches and straight up and getting in the trenches with it. And um I think that we live in that echo chamber. And I don't, I don't know if we've realized the the detriment that that can be until we're shaken out of that. And he's committed to shake everything that can be shaken. And for me, like one of the biggest catalysts over the past couple of years was when stuff that happened in Kansas City and and a leader that I looked to had fallen, and it seemed like everybody around him was fallen, the entire community, the place that I would often call the mothership, like where I was taking my cues from, listening to the teachers. And then I had to, I had to look beyond the voices that I was once listening to. And in that journey, I found so many other voices that just pointed out to me how not well rounded I was.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:How how much I had been missing out. The more we've done our Kingdom Connections initiative and met with people who have different theologies than us, people who are working in a different field. Like we've got people who are running stucco companies, people who are running Chick-fil-A or coffee carts. And as we're meeting with them, we're realizing, oh, the dream that's on your heart was given to you by God. And you see things, you interact with people, you have a mission that is different than mine. And just because it's not the 20 hours a week in a prayer room doesn't mean it's any less.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:I just didn't see that and I didn't value that. And what I think that I've been learning, what our community has been learning, is that we've been enriched in the place of prayer so that we can support the rest of the body of Christ. So that we can come to whoever's running the business thing, the missions operation and whatever closed country that we're not allowed to talk about or whatever, so that we can support them in prayer and work together. Like, bro, I am so done. I I can't stand calling it the prayer movement anymore. I hate that. I can't stand calling it the missions movement anymore. Oh, totally. I think that what God is after is the movement of the bride. That together the whole bride would be radiant and white. And that when you look at the bride, you don't see, oh, that's the that's the prayer arm of the bride, that's the missions arm of the bride, but that you would see a bride who is radiant, who has dressed herself in righteousness and is is well rounded and is cares about the missions, cares about the marketplace, cares about the prayer room, cares about the poor, all of it. And so I feel some zeal behind that. And I am committed to praying over the church at large, praying for my friends in the prayer movement, praying for our community. God, continue to shake everything that can be shaken because we've got blind spots. God, we can't see. You've got to open our eyes, you've got to help us, deliver us from those echo chambers, deliver us from the things that we don't see that we're we're just holding on to. So good.
SPEAKER_01:And I I worked, there was a brief time where I worked at like an after school uh kids program. Yeah. Okay. And there is this one like thing that they would talk about. There's like unruly chaos, and then there's like controlled chaos. So, like, for example, like kids choking each other out, unruly chaos. You don't want that. But there is these moments where kids were a little loud, rambunctious, like all hyped, yelling, like heckling, all the stuff. But they were sitting and playing their game. Like they were playing Uno, and they would put like a draw four, and you'd hear them, oh, I got you, I'm gonna win. And they're like, you know, hyped about it. But they were sitting, doing their thing, and still going along in the game. And that was like the controlled chaos that we had to teach like people, like there's uh, especially with like different backgrounds, different kinds of kids, kids coming from rough areas, kids coming from good areas, like there was unruly chaos where they're like fighting, wrestling that could lead to hurt and like pain and those kind of things. And then there was just sometimes where just like different backgrounds, different lifestyles, messy things were just getting loud at a table, but they were okay. And just having to discern what was like the unruly chaos and what was like controlled loud chaos. And I think a lot of times, like our different movements we see like chaos because the church, like the church at large, it's just messy. Yeah, like different backs, backgrounds, hurts, things that are people are still growing in, immaturity, like there's so many things that the church is trying to like wrangle and help with that there is unruly chaos, yeah, and then there's like controlled chaos that like they're still moving forward and growing in maturity, but there's like things they're still loud, they're still like trying to get their like theology across, like all those things. But then there's stuff that like hurts people, and I think a lot of times we're so focused on just oh, it's just that that feels so unruly, so painful, and we are like hurt, tired, bitter at all of the mess that we're like, I just want to go into my safe, stable environment, right? And like I get it, I get it. It's so tiring sometimes, but I think it's being like Jesus, knowing that there's a there's a long play in that. Like I got to share at our church, like blessed are the peacemakers, and talked about like renovating a house, that it's it's a long process. If anyone's like renovated their house or fixed up anything, Lord help me. Oh, you gotta like do everything smart, wise, it all costs money. So you have to do it in stages and things like that, and we're just not okay with the slow process, right? The lifelong walking with people, the lifelong like being patient and growing with people into maturity and all those things. And we as different movements have to be like good discerners, is like, is this hurting people? Is this actually leading to that, or is it just bumpy? And it's it's maybe not the best way. Like those kids could sit quietly and play Uno, but we know just because of different life, you slowly have to work that in and like dial that in. Like you're not gonna fix it in one day. And I think a lot of us want to fix things and confront things, and it's like, is that is that actually hurting them, or is it something you're uncomfortable with? Because there'd be a lot of teachers that would come up and say, Hey, be quiet, it's too loud for me. And you just kind of have to be okay with it at some times and say, No, they're they're growing, they're trying, they're doing their best, and we're all trying to figure it out and grow, but we're so ready to pin certain movements or things or certain lifestyles to the wall and say that's wrong, that we're not like seeing it through the Lord's eyes mercifully and say, Oh, they're trying. They just need to like dial in a few areas, yeah. And we're just not patient with people, we're not loving enough to say, like, oh, I'm committed to see you growing in that over the next five years. We give it six months and we're like, I just feel like the Lord's calling me to move on. It's done, we're done here.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:When really the Lord's like, no, I need lifelong commitment. It's just like I'm lifelong committed to seeing you fully look like me.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:But we're not willing to do that, so we're like, okay, I'm gonna go into my safe style environment, my echo chambers where we're all going in the same very specific niche direction. Yeah, and if not, you're probably called somewhere else. Right. Which is which is a tough bill to swallow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think I'm just thinking so practically right now, just as we land this. Um what has been eye-opening for me is we everything here is an alliteration because it's more spiritual if it's an alliteration. So with Kingdom Connections, we we meet regularly with ministry leaders, marketplace leaders, and missionaries. Each of those perspectives is wildly different. And so I think as practically like if you were to offer the person who has spent 16 years in a prayer room, or maybe they're they're new to a prayer room and they're listening to this, maybe they're new to our prayer room, like what I would offer is hey, sit down with somebody who's got a different vantage point regularly and love them patiently. I always think of one of the Hebrew words for love being ahava, which just means loving without a hook, without expecting anything in return, without expecting that person to give you anything, but to sit and listen. I think as we meet with those three M's every single month, we oftentimes they don't give us anything. Like we get nothing in return. We're there to serve them, but we listen to their story, we listen to their heart, and we realize how much we don't see and how wrongly we've seen. And so, what other practical advice or guidance would you give to somebody who is living in that sort of echo chamber?
SPEAKER_01:No, I think, bro, that's so good. Like, I think we have to have a a few relationships where we're not like it's still like iron sharpening iron good for us, like all those things. But I think we need to have some friendships that don't have a big ROI on us, like that aren't like yes, like pushing us forward, leading us to God. But I think a lot of times, like we determine friendships if we're benefiting a lot, or if we're getting like I think it's something if we just learn to be with people, listen to people that aren't moving us up in this in some kind of ladder, yeah. That they're just making us better, you know, and just being friends with and growing with. I think we've had the opportunity to do like ministry stuff together that has made us better. But I think at the very like, like I said at the beginning, the very central core was hey, we're just gonna grow in God, like we're gonna learn from each other and go back and forth. And sometimes I'm not too beneficial for our friendship. I'm just the guy. But I think, yeah, just hearing other perspectives and listening and and just taking slowing down a few notches and saying, hey, this doesn't have to do anything spectacular for me, but just opening my ears to different things. Like, um, I would say probably after like the IHOP stuff, I've really tried to open my my gamut of who I'm listening to on podcast. Sure. And I even kind of have like a little rule, like if I listen to a certain group or camp like four times in a row, I switch to someone else. Nice just to um not cheerlead just one area of of the Christian life, but realizing that somehow all the different viewpoints and denominations have something that I'm most likely lacking in. And I think it's really opened me up to realize like um opened me up to realizing like, oh, I'm not I'm not better than anyone, or the thing I've held on to is not more elite or more better, because the minute I like listen to someone else, I'm like, wow, you're so sensitive to the cross and Jesus dying that you start getting teary-eyed. I like know it, and I haven't been so teary-eyed as you. And then I move on, and then I see like people's love for the poor, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I have no love for the poor. Like, I don't, and I like I need to grow in that, and then I, you know, see people growing and just hiding away with Jesus, and I just realize like the Lord wants our entirety, not just a really good prayer life, yeah, not just a really good missional life, not just a really good uh in the church life. Like, he wants us entirely fully given. And I think it it starts with like hearing what other people are doing and listening. So I guess, yeah, my encouragement would be just open your ears to like what other believers are doing and taking um, taking in count, taking inventory and saying, okay, what what is missing in me, Lord, that you want to grow today and stretch?
SPEAKER_00:That's so good. Last question elevator pitch. You're in an elevator with 30 or 30 seconds to tell somebody how to sustain a life of worship and prayer. What is the 30-second elevator pitch you would give to them? The one tip, the crucial thing, how do you sustain a life of worship and prayer?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I think the most simplest thing I would say is try it again. Like, whether it's good, it's bad, try it again, keep doing it day in and day out, even when it feels stale, even when it feels really good, like commit yourself to doing it daily, even small, even a little bit. Just say yes, find a way to say yes to it the next time. Come on. That would be yeah, so good.
SPEAKER_00:So good. Well, bro, thanks for being here. Thanks for doing this. I hope we do it again real soon. Yeah. Talk about who knows what.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, tune in for the youth one. Yeah, tune in for the youth episode. Pause and oh my goodness. Just kidding.
SPEAKER_00:So good. Well, love you, bro. Go avalanche. Go abs, come on.
SPEAKER_01:And uh got their second loss, which is sad. I know.
SPEAKER_00:It's only their second, though.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, we'll see. Yep. It'll be fine when when they have a couple.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's right. So good. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. We love that you're part of this community. We love that you listen and join in. If this was beneficial to you, we encourage you to share it with a friend, tell somebody about it, share it on our socials. Yeah, all of the buttons, press all the buttons, and uh if you got any questions for us, let us know. Comment answer comment down below. Amen. God bless y'all.