For the past eight years, Ben Abzug has been the Assistant General Manager for the Charleston RiverDogs, a minor league baseball team that holds the only title of being Low-A East Champions. He brings extensive knowledge of how to increase sales and attendance from his previous role as General Manager for the Burlington Royals of the Appalachian League.
Ben graduated from Purdue University - Krannert School of Management with a Bachelor of Science in Marketing and Marketing Management. He built his baseball managerial experience by interning with the Cedar Rapids Kernels Baseball Club for two years after graduation.
In this episode…
How can you sift through the data to drive more revenue? Are you symmetrical with your consumers’ needs?
Ben Abzug knows the efficacy of measuring data and thinking from a consumer standpoint to meet consumer needs. By studying the data, a business can deploy marketing tactics to target specific demographics. Ben has experience studying results from digital campaigns to discover buying behavior and convert it into increased revenue. Want to learn more?
In this episode of Digital Madvertising, Chris Clark talks with Ben Abzug, Assistant General Manager at Charleston RiverDogs, about how the RiverDogs are leading the entertainment experience in minor league sports. Ben shares how the team repositioned themselves to be leaders of the league, creating a unique consumer experience, and why examining the data really matters when increasing sales.
This Podcast is powered by Digital Ignite and recorded in Charleston, SC. Hosted by Chris Clark and Winnie Teal. Digital Madvertising is edited, produced & scored by the talented Connor Sage. Join us each week as we cover the wild wild west of digital marketing news, trends, and products.
Follow us!
For the past eight years, Ben Abzug has been the Assistant General Manager for the Charleston RiverDogs, a minor league baseball team that holds the only title of being Low-A East Champions. He brings extensive knowledge of how to increase sales and attendance from his previous role as General Manager for the Burlington Royals of the Appalachian League.
Ben graduated from Purdue University - Krannert School of Management with a Bachelor of Science in Marketing and Marketing Management. He built his baseball managerial experience by interning with the Cedar Rapids Kernels Baseball Club for two years after graduation.
In this episode…
How can you sift through the data to drive more revenue? Are you symmetrical with your consumers’ needs?
Ben Abzug knows the efficacy of measuring data and thinking from a consumer standpoint to meet consumer needs. By studying the data, a business can deploy marketing tactics to target specific demographics. Ben has experience studying results from digital campaigns to discover buying behavior and convert it into increased revenue. Want to learn more?
In this episode of Digital Madvertising, Chris Clark talks with Ben Abzug, Assistant General Manager at Charleston RiverDogs, about how the RiverDogs are leading the entertainment experience in minor league sports. Ben shares how the team repositioned themselves to be leaders of the league, creating a unique consumer experience, and why examining the data really matters when increasing sales.
This Podcast is powered by Digital Ignite and recorded in Charleston, SC. Hosted by Chris Clark and Winnie Teal. Digital Madvertising is edited, produced & scored by the talented Connor Sage. Join us each week as we cover the wild wild west of digital marketing news, trends, and products.
Follow us!
Intro 0:03
Welcome to Digital Madvertising powered by Digital Ignite. Digital Madvertising covers all things in the digital marketing and technology space. Here we will be interviewing brand managers and C suite executives from some of the world's biggest brands.
Chris Clark 0:22
Hey everybody, Chris Clark, here with another episode of Digital Madvertising. Powered by Digital Ignite. Today, I have a very awesome guest on I have Ben Abzug from the Charleston RiverDogs baseball team. Now, if you've never heard of the Charleston RiverDogs, Google them now. They are, in my opinion, the premier minor league sports team in this country when it comes to entertainment, and the experience of going to a game. I sit down with Ben today to talk about everything under the sun with RiverDogs how they just became the only low A East champions. Because minor league baseball just went through a crazy change of teams going away and repositioning of league. So Ben and I discussed that we discuss the team's relationship with Bill Murray and Mike Veeck. And Trina who Bill Murray is, but if you don't know who Mike Veeck is, as another person to Google, and we talk about the the entertainment value of the RiverDogs. And what makes the RiverDogs so special, not only in the Charleston community, but again, what makes them stand out a is one of the premier entertainment experiences in all of minor league sports in this country. So please enjoy my conversation with the assistant GM of the Charleston RiverDogs Ben Abzug. Alright everybody. My name is Chris Clark. I am the host of the Digital Madvertising podcast powered by Digital Ignite and today I've got an awesome guest with me. It's a gentleman that I've known for quite a long time. And when I sat down to start this podcast, I was like I've got to get him on and his organization. I'm sitting here with the assistant GM of the RiverDogs, Ben Abzug, Ben what's going on in?
Ben Abzug 1:56
Good morning, and thanks for having me. Yeah, man.
Chris Clark 1:58
So the RiverDogs are your 2021 low A champions.
Ben Abzug 2:05
So close. Okay, well as low A East champions. Yeah. And not only the 2021, low A East champions, but we will be the only low A East champions in the history of minor league baseball. And the reason is, this was a transitional year. And in the haste with COVID, and new minor league baseball Major League Baseball agreement, they came up with these league names that were admittedly hard to say yeah, just so aptly demonstrated. And a mouthful and but very descriptive, right low East. And they've told us that those names will be changing going into next year. So there was one season of the our league is the lower east and we are the the champions in perpetuity. That's
Chris Clark 2:45
amazing that it should say that on the banner too. And it's hung up there. So you and with that the RiverDogs had probably one of the best records in baseball overall, right. And that's including every level of baseball.
Ben Abzug 2:55
So there's 120 Now teams in minor league baseball at four different levels all around the country. And for most of the year, we had the very best record of all 120 teams, I think we finished second. But we are an affiliate of the Tampa Bay Rays. So they they supply us the the the players and the rays over the last couple years have been known as the best minor league system in all of baseball, they really know how to develop players. They've made some trades to restock their minor league system. And so the team that actually finished ahead of us was another res affiliate. So there are four res affiliates. We won our championship at the low a level, the team right above us at Hiei, which is in Bowling Green, Kentucky won the championship, best record in all of baseball their team and double A got to the championship last in the deciding fifth game, and their triple A team that which is the Durham Bulls, no playoffs and triple A this year, but had the best record and all the triple A so the rays are being lauded as having this incredible season in the minors. And then also obviously the major league level they're playing well, too. They got beaten the first round of the playoffs but had the best record in the American League. Yeah. Going into the playoffs. So we're really, really excited about the partnership with the rays that we have. And yeah, I'll be getting a ring soon. Yeah, I don't know word yet. And whether our digital advertising partners get a ring or not. But yeah,
Chris Clark 4:09
I that's the first thing I thought of our account manager actually popped in it was like, Hey, do you get rings and I was like, I'll get you a t shirt to start so you know,
Ben Abzug 4:16
we've talked about doing like $2 Knockoff replica rings as a giveaway to start next season. So you know, we can probably find a couple of those for you guys. Definitely.
Chris Clark 4:24
Hey, I'll take it man. I love it. No, that's exciting. So in to dive into really quick with with the the Tampa Bay Rays. So this was your first season as the affiliate you guys were previously the New York Yankees. Why don't you walk through just briefly, you know anybody that's listening? Well, how does that work?
Ben Abzug 4:42
Yeah, so so so people who know the RiverDogs know what our brand means and that's goofy promotions, giving people a reason to come to the ballpark. And that's all done by our local team here. I mean, we are locally driven business. We've got a staff of COVID hurt us a little bit but you know anywhere from 15 to 25 full time people who are here in Charleston, and we're operating the business, right, where we're selling tickets, we're selling sponsorships, we're doing all the marketing, the community engagement, we're running food and beverage at the ballpark, we're, we're, you know, operating the facility day to day. That's the RiverDogs, we then have a relationship with a major league team who supplies us with the players. And so me, for example, I don't work for the rays, I work for the RiverDogs. And as well as everybody on our staff here, but we do have the strong relationship with a major league team. And that major league team is responsible for providing us players, coaches, all the support staff that relates to the team. And so anything that happens on the field is is the raise everything else is us. And so, you know, so people have been congratulating me on winning the championship, and I'm like, Man, I take all the credit, right? You know, although we, the RiverDogs staff has almost nothing to do with anything, you know, performance related on the field. So when we switch from the rays to the Yankees, or sorry, from the Yankees, to the rays this year, and that was that was a byproduct of an overall change in the architecture of the minor league baseball season system, and the relationship that binds Major League Baseball, and then then minor league teams. And so the new system, which is now called so so at some point, we probably will not be referring to minor league baseball as minor league baseball. It has been it's, it's being rebranded and I don't know what it will ultimately be. But But technically, right now we're we're Major League Baseball PDLs player development leagues interessato. So we are, so we belong to one of the leagues that is a PDF, and this new arrangement between major league baseball minor league baseball, ended up meeting a lot of shuffling between minor league teams and their affiliates. And so we were one of dozens of teams who changed affiliates this year. And for a variety of reasons, limit player travel to improve, you know, kind of layers. Yeah, I'm
Chris Clark 6:56
sorry, is an airplane bombs over us right now. Our helicopter? As a long one? Yeah.
Ben Abzug 7:05
Some very slow travel. Yeah, just hovering over it.
Chris Clark 7:08
It is hovering over it. I wonder if it's Coast Guard. Either way, so So
Ben Abzug 7:13
I was gonna but so so what happened? You know, we knew that it was likely the Yankees were going to go elsewhere because they wanted to centralize all their teams and in the new, Greater New York area. And they ended up going to more or less replacing us with the team in Hudson Valley, near Poughkeepsie, New York, which about an hour from New York, so it makes sense. And so we didn't know who what what affiliate we were going to get, and ended up being the race, and we had a past relationship with the race, because they were actually here, when we first became the RiverDogs. In the late 90s. and into the early 2000s. The rays were here, the Devil Rays. Yeah. So so we knew, you know, and they're known as being great, great partners, to minor league teams who really value the player development process. So we love being with the Yankees had a great relationship, obviously, you know, from our business perspective, what happens on the field isn't a huge driver for our business, right? People come to the ballpark to have a beer to sit outside with their friends to watch fireworks to, you know, a million reasons of which being really engaged with the player development process, and the prospects coming through is pretty low on the list for most for sure. And so, you know, was it a net benefit to our business to be a Yankees affiliate, because you have Yankees fans everywhere, and when the team from Greenville, who was a Red Sox affiliate comes down, you kind of have the Yankees Red Sox game Sure, has some marginal positive impact or so. So we missed that a little bit. But what we gained with a raise is a what we think will be a more consistently good team on the field. And that just, you know, generally has to do with my new differences in the way that major league teams look at their player development process. And, you know, you think about the Yankees being a big market team and making a lot of free agent transactions at the major league level, and supplementing that with their player development process. And kind of the inverse for the raise, right? Like, their core way that they're building teams at the major league level is developing their own players. And then they're supplementing that rarely with a major league acquisition, right. And so you just tend to see the same handful, mostly smaller market teams in Major League Baseball, who tend to have winning teams at the minor league level, you know, not to say that the Yankees haven't won their share of minor league championships. But sure, you can just tell my new differences in the way that that major league teams operate and the rays right now have a great system with a lot of prospects and
Chris Clark 9:28
their GM is like one the top gym or lastly
Ben Abzug 9:30
there, they're there. They're across the business known as being an excellently run organization. And so and really value valuing the player development process and so we think we're going to have consistently good teams and so we what we lose and kind of the Yankees brand. I think we gain in again, only a marginal impact for our business when you have a winning team, right? It's not it's not the same way as when you think of you know, before I worked here, I worked for a Royals affiliate, and the Royals at the major league level had that two or three year stretch they went to the World Series two times in a row in four To 15. And when they're good, they feel the ballpark. And when they're bad, nobody comes. Right. Not the same for us. Right? Again, most of our fans aren't coming to see the success of the team. So only a marginal impact, I think, when when the team is good, but this year, for example, I was really pleasantly surprised. I mean, we got to the season, we got to the playoffs and the community was into it. Yeah, you get a little extra press coverage, you know, you're on the front page of the posting courier, a little bit more buzz around town. And I think, you know, people get excited about being in playoffs and, and we had good crowds for the playoffs. And so you know, that that kind of net positive for us of hopefully, having consistently winning teams for the raises is a nice bump for us. And, you know, we've loved being partners with the rows so far.
Chris Clark 10:41
That's awesome, man, I appreciate you explaining that. The whole trajectory of minor league and Major League Baseball changing up and then just I think, you know, and we'll dive into a lot of the experience of minor league sports, because without the experience, you know, you know, a lot of people aren't coming to watch the performance, and it's what you do to get them there. And I think you guys have, probably, if not, and, you know, my opinion, and I'm sure there's other people out there listening that can have their own, but y'all have like one of the best marketing, you know, platforms and whatever. You want to call that out there today.
Ben Abzug 11:11
Thanks. Yeah, I mean, I'm biased to but I but I certainly, you know, when I when I joined the RiverDogs, system seven, eight years ago, I mean, that was one of the things I knew about the RiverDogs is, you know, they really put an emphasis on that sort of shameless promotion, we'll do whatever it takes to drive people to the ballpark. And, you know, I like to say that if you pull all the fans on their way out of the ballpark after a game, four out of five won't know who won the game they just watched, right? Yeah, they're not paying attention to that. Sure. But you asked them you know, about the silly between inning, ribbon dance, and oh, yeah, that was That was hilarious. That guy was doing cartwheels in the outfield. Yeah, you know that. That's the sort of thing that we hope sticks with people,
Chris Clark 11:50
for sure. So let's dive into your position, man. So you've been there eight years, and you've been the assistant GM since you started what what is that? What does that position entitled? What do you do on a day to day and then throughout the season?
Ben Abzug 12:03
Yeah, you and I were talking office earlier so I'm, you know, I'm basically Dwight right. But But I haven't set off any fire alarms on purpose. That I know that God hates PowerPoint. Yeah. But but but my job is essentially to to back up my boss, our president, Dave Eccles, you know, whatever that means. And so, over my years, my role has shifted and changed. You know, in general, I'm, I'm in charge of driving revenue to the ballpark. And that's typically done in a few ways. One, how do we drive people to the ballpark from a marketing standpoint? So what message are we putting out and what channels that are driving individual families by and large to purchase tickets and come to games which then, you know, means downline revenue for us in terms of in stadium revenue from from a food and beverage merchandise, parking perspective, and all the other revenues that come with people actually come into games. And then the other piece for me is overseeing our outbound sales efforts, which typically for us is season tickets, you know, group and hospitality outings at games and then what I'm most hands on with myself is selling our corporate partnerships so you can come to the ballpark you see a sign or diamonds direct as is sponsoring a diamond dig or what have you. Um, that's all stuff that I'm that I'm keenly focused on and then and then you know, having oversight of the overall operation in terms of when you do get to the ballpark what what is the food and beverage operation look like the the cleanliness and kind of flow the ballpark, the promotional activations? What are the fun things that people are coming out to see you know, we're engaged in that that as well but you know, to you know, sales and marketing primarily to drive revenue and ultimately people but butts and seats as we say in the biz, yeah,
Chris Clark 13:50
yeah. And you guys do a great job of of that. So let's talk more about that within the RiverDogs and if you've never been to Charleston and you've been to a RiverDogs game, you've got to get over there just because not only is the Joe and one of the coolest places you know in Charleston right on the Ashley River but just the experience you nailed the food you know we've got the homewrecker hot dog you've got the promotions where does this all come from? Where How does the process work from from literally butts in seats to the food to like the fireworks to the shooting of people out of cannons, bouncy balls out of helicopters
Ben Abzug 14:22
were you volunteering to be the next guy shot out of a cannon?
Chris Clark 14:25
I mean you know I'm yes actually like it was
Ben Abzug 14:29
nothing but traveled the country getting shot out of cannon so actually specialized the Kannapolis
Chris Clark 14:33
cannon ballers we were there around July 4 The RiverDogs we're playing them RiverDogs smoke the cannon ballers were bad they were very bad this year they haven't made but they have an amazing atmosphere they
Ben Abzug 14:43
do great new ballpark
Chris Clark 14:44
yeah really cool ballpark but they did shoot this guy to the Kansas I guess he's that same guy. Yeah,
Ben Abzug 14:48
he's he does the kind of you see the same like five or eight performers that do like the whole minor league baseball circuit superfan.
Chris Clark 14:54
Cameron Cameron, he's that guy.
Ben Abzug 14:57
So I can't remember what you asked.
Chris Clark 15:01
So basically talking about the marketing, the promotions, the food like you guys,
Ben Abzug 15:05
where does it come from?
Chris Clark 15:05
Where's it come from in in? You guys set yourselves apart from everybody else out there? Like yeah, what is the process? So
Ben Abzug 15:11
I think it goes back to a couple things. I mean, it's a long standing emphasis on creativity, right? Breathing an environment where there's a collaborative effort to try new things and be off the wall. And that comes from leadership. And when you think when most people think of referred hugs or leadership, they think of Bill Murray, who you may have heard of, yeah. And, and Mike Veck, who you may not have heard of, we got to talk about him and why now you have Yeah, but but the listeners may not have and so, you know, in and so the our corporate structure for many years was Mike avec President, my boss, Dave, our general manager, and then you have Bill Murray, who's clearly doing a million things all over the world. So not engaged day to day was the director of fun, but director of fun and has a real impact on on the sort of entertainment aspect of what we do. And so, you know, Mike back is kind of considered nationally the the father of the goofy promotion and you know, we'll try anything demolition. Yeah, it goes back to his his father Bill back, who was a major league owner and St. Louis and then of the White Sox and winning on the White Sox, Mike worked for him and had this great idea to do. I think it was quarter beer on Disco Demolition night, and and ended up getting 60,000 people in a 40,000 person stadium and between two games of a doubleheader, they blew up a dumpster of disco records, this goes dead. And then the smoke settled in from the from the explosion, and they had to it was and then they had to forfeit the second game of the doubleheader because they couldn't play. And you
Chris Clark 16:52
have to go to YouTube and watch it. It's amazing. There's also a Drunk History on
Ben Abzug 16:55
it, which, oh, you have to watch that. Yeah. But Mike was then kind of vanquished from Major League Baseball for a while and came back in minor league baseball and brought his creativity to that. And if you ever been in a room with Mike, I think every organization can benefit from having someone like Mike who he's in the room, and he's loud. And he's, and he's, you know, I don't know that Mike would say that he himself is the most creative person. I think he is pretty creative. But he knows how to pull out creativity from others. And that's, that's an skill that I've never seen anybody better at than him. He said in a brainstorm with our staff, just just us Mike's not there, we come up with some good idea, but Mike comes in. It's just this dynamic environment. And so that's, that's a skill, I really value, that sort of ability to put other people at ease and let the ideas flow. And so Mike, I think, for many years really has been the creative voice behind what we do. And he's responsible for a lot of the core promotions that people think of when they think of RiverDogs. You know, especially from being back in the 90s, early 2000s. We did a nobody night, were we not locked everybody out of the ballpark set a record for lowest attendance, had ladders in the outfield that people could peer over the fence to look in and see what happened. I think it was the lowest attendance until remember when the Orioles played a couple games, right? Yeah, right, and all that. So I think we got beat at that point. But, you know, promotions like that. And I think that's kind of the blueprint for what we try to do. I mean, the idea is that nobody night as an example, obviously wasn't a promotion that drove people to the ballpark. In fact, it did the opposite. But it it brought this media attention to us, and just kind of creates the aura of what our brand is that ultimately then pays off for us in other ways down the road. And so when we're brainstorming, thinking promotions, we're thinking in two tracks, what are the what are the promotional nights? What are the theme nights? What are the marketing avenues that are going to drive people to the ballpark? And or what are the marketing avenues that are going to just build our brand and build our aura. And so you have kind of these two KPIs of, you know, of everything that we do from a marketing perspective. So we're using this litmus test of, it's got to do one of these two things, or both either drive people to the ballpark, or bring us attention in some way that's going to benefit us down the road. And so I think that's an important point, too, is that not everything that we do is going to directly lead to revenue driving activities, but you have to think more holistically about your marketing approach to to achieve multiple goals. And so you know, you have Mike Veeck, Bill Murray. I mean, again, He's around less than Mike is. But when he's in the room, again, brings out the best in everybody. He's always thinking of something goofy that we can try. And, and I think what I've learned over my time here in kind of what makes successful brainstorming successful, in our case, promotions, but it's not specific to our industry, right, everybody needs that creativity is there has to be from the top this, this promoting of a collaborative environment. Because when I think of our best ideas and the time that I've been here, I think of you know, we did the world's largest silly string fight, you know, never seen so many people leaving the ballpark with a smile on their face, right. Yeah, I think of think of, you know, we did a legalized Marinara night on 420, which was, I thought we did really well. Yeah, and got a lot of attention
Chris Clark 20:23
where people like, diving for meatballs, or what was yeah,
Ben Abzug 20:27
there's something done for me balls, we handed out dime bags of oregano on the way. We had an intern sitting in a pool of marinara. And every time we scored a run, you'd get like a giant industrial sized can of marinara poured on him. We hired actors who were part of the CSC of CS drama program to come like protests, like marinara should be legal with with picket sign, you know, sentence credible. So like, I think we did that one really? Well. Yeah. And so sometimes it's a good idea that like, just gets attention, because it's cool. And sometimes it's like, you know, does our execution warrant you know, it getting more attention. But But either way, I think when I think of those promotions, you know, you think of the ball drop, for example, those ideas don't come from my director of promotions, always who's responsible for theming out our schedule, it just take break down how the creative process worked for that ball, drop, for example, if our Director of Operations, who's more or less the guy who makes sure the ballparks clean as far away as you can possibly be from the creative side of our business. And he says, You know, I saw something and wouldn't it be hilarious if we dropped a piano out of a helicopter? And it just crashed in the field into a million pieces? And we're like, no, but maybe you're onto something there. And so the creative the brainstorm, kind of, you know, takes another form. And then it ended up actually being our groundskeeper who, if you know groundskeepers, most of them are, you know, Scrooge, like, and very protective of their work, rightfully so. Yeah. And so anything that we propose from a promotional standpoint that had to do with don't hurt the field? Yeah, it's like, you know, the first answer is always no, and then, you know, adjust from there generally. But this was, you know, so he heard this idea of piano, and he's like, hell no, yeah. He's like, but what if we drop bouncy balls out of the helicopter, right? And we're like, Yeah, I mean, like, that could work. And we tried it once. And it was this really incredible visual. Now we do it a lot. And so you think of kind of the two people on our staff between Director of Operations and groundskeeper who are generally in those sorts of all staff, promotional brainstorms are probably the least engaged, just by their position, who, you know, are at least responsible for coming up with this ideas, and in a lot of cases are the least likely to want to contribute and be a part of it. And that's been one of our better promotional ideas that we've had. And so, you know, I take it upon myself, and you know, all of our leadership on our staff to really create that environment where everybody can contribute. And I think that's, that's why we've been successful over time.
Chris Clark 22:51
What's, what's your favorite promotion, then? So far?
Ben Abzug 22:54
Oh, let's see, in my time here, I really like how we've pivoted to the sort of communal experience is as as one of our big kind of avenues for promotional nights. So we've done three examples of this over the last three or four years. The silly string night, which I mentioned, where my director of promotions got his credit card canceled, because who would ever order 4000 cans marked as fraud? That's amazing. Well, we got the cylinder. So you had that. And then the next year, we did what we call color night. And that was, you know, if you've ever seen, like a color rather than give everybody the powder, it's actually I think goes with the the Hindu holiday of Divali. Oh, cool. I know. I know. Michael Scott. Scott. Yeah. To Kelly.
And so we gave everybody a bag of this. And you know, during the seventh inning strategy, and we did throw it everywhere, and we had all sorts of other I think we did a really good job with that one, too, just, you know, all sorts of other activations around the ballpark, and pre promotion on social and through digital platforms and all that. So that one, and then just this year, I think our highlight of our promotional calendar this year, where, you know, we admittedly weren't, we weren't as creative as we have been due to COVID. And everything else was a toilet paper night where we gave everybody a roll of toilet paper. And it was it was a crazy visual covering the ballpark. Kind of made a joke on now that toilet paper is back in stock. You don't have to have to struggle through COVID. But so so like those sorts of communal, everybody gets to participate. Everybody leaves with a smile on their face. Everybody feels part of it, I think is has been a really positive transition. Oh, A well maybe not away from but in the past, do you think of minor league baseball promotions and you think like a giveaway? What are you getting on the way in? Right? Yeah, and I think that's a positive for some people. But a, you're generally only, you know, if you look across most ballparks, for us, we're doing generally 1000 items, no major league game, maybe 10,000 items. So you're only talking probably 20 25% of the crowd is, is involved in that. And then be, it's like, great, I got something, but it's not an experience, I think what we do really well is we help create memories, and we create time with your family and friends that that that are that are really positive. And I guess I could have just said memories. And, and so way more powerful for me both from just a great experience, but also like, Hey, I'm going to come back to another RiverDogs game, which is our ultimate goal. Yeah, if you just leave with a huge smile on your face to say I was part of something really awesome. And so I liked that that's been a shift in what we do. So what's been my pick favorite promotion, I think silly string has been, you know, one of the coolest things that I've ever seen in person. But you know, all of those sorts of communal things we're working on what can we do for next year? Right? We in our brainstorm last week, someone wanted to do like a bubbles night or we were, we're gonna give everybody bubbles to blow and you know, all sorts of bubble machines and all that sound? Well, we'll think of something.
Chris Clark 25:49
That's cool. So and no pun intended. What's one that you guys have struck out on? Or or, you know, what's something that just hasn't stuck? Or the fans didn't resonate or negative publicity? I know, there was a Tim Tebow incident in the past. It feels
Ben Abzug 26:01
like you did plan that pun. But, uh, yeah, I mean, the Tim Tebow. One is the one we've gotten the most negative press on. And yeah, whatever. I think, you know,
Chris Clark 26:10
our any press is good press. Yeah, until
Ben Abzug 26:13
the death threats start coming. But yeah, the, you know, it's into that into 10. To play minor league baseball came through for a weekend and we poke some fun at him in a very RiverDog esque way. That was all good natured, both construed by some as being attacked on an attack on his religious beliefs. So we took some heat for that. So
Chris Clark 26:34
let's put it this way. Every person that wasn't Tim Tebow that came to bat on the scoreboard, it said, Not Tim Tebow, instead of that person's name is incredible.
Ben Abzug 26:42
Yeah, I thought we did some funny things. But I think that goes to, you know, we broke down with some internal communication there, to really vet all of the different components that went into the night, some of which we probably would have thought better have had everybody been exposed to those ideas. So I mean, that's an example one, but I mean, I'd say for every one really big promotion, we have two or three that strike out. And it's just, you know, we've got 66, or we used to have 7066, home games, and we're trying to plan something or not everyone's going to be huge. But our goal is to have one to two events per month that are getting us some sort of big splash exposure. And so you know, you think of our season being five months, so you'd like it, we want 10 Really big dates. And so we always have 10 on the calendar, and generally two or three actually pick up the sort of steam that we want. And that could be the idea just wasn't topical. And you know, anything that we can kind of relate to current events is obviously positive. We thought something last week we brainstorm. Somebody said we should do a fundraiser for Britney Spears. And and someone else goes, Oh, not now. I think she now has access to our money. What we really need to do is do a fundraiser for her dad who no longer controls our money. So like that sort of thing would you know, be wildfire? Yeah. So I mean, you know, so it might be just we picked a topic that wasn't great. Might be our execution. Wasn't that good? It wasn't that creative? Yeah. Try it out. Yeah. And so you know, I'd say, you know, in baseball, you about 300. And that's pretty good, I think, you know, in terms of making the huge splash. So we want to that's probably about our success right there, too. So you you miss a lot every year. And, you know, so when we sit back and start brainstorming every year, this time of year, for next season, it's what things work, should we stick with them? Should we adjust them? Or should we trash them? And most of them we trash and never do again? Yeah,
Chris Clark 28:22
yeah. No, I appreciate it. And then, you know, we got a couple more minutes. But I think we should definitely cover like marketing in general for I'd say, just, let's say well, minor league baseball, but the transition from and we've been working with you all for probably six, six plus years now. And again, the transition of media with digital marketing from from looking at a radio a TV perspective, in your mind nowadays, you you know that the baseball fans gonna come to the RiverDogs stadium. And I know you utilize digital tactics to find some of those other but what is what is, in your opinion, what's like the shift look like for that to find new audiences? I mean, what are some ways that you guys are looking to entice and get new people to the ballpark?
Ben Abzug 29:05
You know, I think what we struggle with and what is kind of the constant battle for us is we have there's a ton of data out there there for us, there are a ton of products that we're trying to sell, meaning each individual game each individual type of ticket package or a ton of product, ton of data, and how do you kind of marry the two and feed the right messaging to the right people through the right platforms? And you all have helped us with that. We've had to get smarter with what we do. So, I think, you know, we and the other challenge for us is, we feel like we our product, our products can appeal to almost the entire spectrum demographically, and say, of all this data, all these different potential customers, all these different events and products that we're selling. And it's, it's, you can tie your brain into a tizzy thinking about that, but what we've come to, I think, is really thinking from a consumer behavior standpoint, and say, when and how and who are likely to buy tickets, for example, at any given time. And so, if we know that for most events, you know, we've looked at our data, and we know that the vast majority of people are buying tickets between three days, and six hours out from the start of that event. And so if we're promoting toilet paper night, that's our hot window. And who demographically is likely to attend those games based on day of week time of event, content of that event, from a promotional standpoint, and, and marrying those things to be able to deploy the messages that are likely to appeal to someone during the right timing in the sales cycle. And so, you know, in working with digital Ignite, it's really identifying the core demographic groups that comprise our audience, whether you're talking, you know, families, meaning, you know, young mothers who are typically the decision maker for the entertainment dollar, and, you know, appealing to those people in the right timeframes leading up to a weekend, for example, when those folks are most likely to attend games. You know, we talked about our Thirsty Thursday demographic of dollar beer drinkers. And what's the timeline Mike for them to buy tickets, typically less planning ahead? And so how do we hit those people in the right times through the right media? And, you know, it goes to the overall mix of what we do, I think what's been really successful from a digital standpoint for us, is that sort of learning process that you can see from getting the data and we worked really hard with you guys, five or six years ago, to get a real handle on that sort of buyer data that I'm talking about, right? Seeing, seeing the results from our digital campaigns all the way through the conversion process, and being able to really understand the consumer and the buying behavior, to then every day be getting smarter and smarter about where our likely customers are, and when they're likely to buy. And over time, like to think that we've gotten smarter and, and converted that into to additional revenue for us. You know, and as we move forward, I think, same problem, right? More and more and more and more data, more and more ways to reach people. And so, you know, really trying not to dilute what you're doing to say these are the avenues that I know are successful, sure, trying new tactics as they become available. But ultimately say this is what I know is successful. And I'm going to follow the money with with with my with my money, and prioritize the tactics and the and the avenues that are that are driving business.
Chris Clark 32:57
Yeah. Well, I think you you make it easy for us just because of the different types of promotions. I think the creative that that the RiverDogs put out. Again, if you're familiar with the brand, you've got awesome jingles you got the great videos. I mean, you put Bill Murray on any piece of creative engagements can go up. But no, it's it's been really fun working with the RiverDogs to Ben's point, it really helped us identify like tracking conversions, looking at individuals clicking on an ad purchasing tickets, being able to show the client transparency and revenue add tickets were what games those people are purchasing two. So you know, we are huge fans of the RiverDogs because of you know, allowing us to grow and learn that because we've we've taken that and took it to other clients now to show, you know that transparency, but it's been a it's been a fun, fun relationship. With you Ben and I know you've got another meeting you got to get to but before we get out of here, I just wanted to ask you a quick question in regards to like, who are some of your mentors in baseball and maybe beyond? Or is there anybody want to give a specific shout out to the conversation?
Ben Abzug 33:56
No, I mean, I'm, I'm lucky in the organization that we have here and being exposed to Mike Veeck and Bill Murray are huge positives for me. I mean, I'm, I'm not inherently the most creative person in the world. So you know, I it's a it's a skill that I've that I work on, right? How do we how do I help contribute to the overall creativity and brainstorm of our staff? And so, you know, I think our whole staff is really lucky because you do have Mike and Bill which is kind of, you know, very creative off the wall. And then my boss Dave, who is very analytical who's very structured And so you kind of have both of those things working towards you. So that's, um, you know, appreciate for that leadership and that guidance from a broader level. I don't know, my, my wife is my hero in life
Chris Clark 34:48
they go. Well, then I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on, man. And, again, this is this is an early onset of our podcast. I'd love to get you on before next season, kind of talk a little bit more about some of those promotions you've come up with. But thanks so much for sharing all this. It's sure fun. Yeah, happy to be alright, man. Thank you. All right. I hope everybody enjoyed our conversation with Ben, I learned a lot today about the RiverDogs that I wasn't aware of. So I can't thank them enough for coming by and sharing some of that information with us. I hope to have him come on next year before the start of the 22 season. Very, very cool stuff with the river RiverDogs in their affiliation with the Tampa Bay Rays, and just the future of minor league and Major League Baseball, very interesting to see where that goes. But you can definitely trust a RiverDogs to have a pulse on all of that, you can find the RiverDogs over at Charleston RiverDogs comm they've got an amazing social presence across all of the social channels. So make sure you are following them to stay up to date on everything going on in their world. As always, please let us know how we are doing here at Digital Madvertising. A couple people have been leaving us some comments on social channels, and Spotify and all of that. So I appreciate it. So continue the feedback. Let us know what we're doing wrong or what you like what we can add in guests that you would like to have on board. The feedback has been amazing. So I appreciate that. And until next time, my name is Chris Clark, and this is the Digital Madvertising podcast.
Outro 36:11
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