Dr. Rod Berger is a Master Communication & Brand Strategist, Partner at Strategos Group, and a Forbes Contributor.
His latest article, "From India With Love: Unconventional Approach Spells Success For BYJU’S U.S. Market Strategy" highlights a young, multi-billion-dollar Ed Tech company.
Join the conversation in which Rod will show you:
Join us for this Facebook Live and seize the chance to Chat live about your own strategy and brand with The Master!
Dr. Rod Berger is a Master Communication & Brand Strategist, Partner at Strategos Group, and a Forbes Contributor.
His latest article, "From India With Love: Unconventional Approach Spells Success For BYJU’S U.S. Market Strategy" highlights a young, multi-billion-dollar Ed Tech company.
Join the conversation in which Rod will show you:
Join us for this Facebook Live and seize the chance to Chat live about your own strategy and brand with The Master!
Welcome everyone. Who's tuned in today to lifelong educators, a community of people who are teachers, parents, anyone interested in educations past, present, and future. So we have amazing guests every week. And. In the audience can pick their brains and I encourage you to do so through the chat today, we have Dr. Ron Berger, Dr. Rod is in master communication and brand strategist. He's a partner at strategist group and a Forbes contributor. And also my co-host today, no tongue to near though. Tom is CEO of click two, which is an online enrichment program. So welcome gentlemen.
Dr. Rod Berger:Thank you, Jackie. That was nice to be here.
Jackie Guzda:Wonderful. So as a master communicator and a master strategist, I got to tell you about that really, really impressed me when we were talking before this interview, because not only did you give us the information that we needed to conduct this interview and get everything we needed to know from you for our audience. You also stopped in your tracks. Talk to dotage John, the CEO of clip two and gave him advice as a strategist to publicize this particular Facebook live. And it showed me that you're a person who thinks on their feet and knows their game. So Dotan, did you benefit from
Dr. Rod Berger:that? Of
Dotan Tamir:course. Yeah, I think, well, actually, rather than I met, in San Diego at, at the ASU GSV conference, it was over a month ago. that was really eye-opening. and you never know, where your, you know, your best, suggestions and ideas would come from. And I think, we just starting there, there might be more. you know, both sides, opportunities that are developed that could be developed from this kind of, networking, meeting, new people.
Jackie Guzda:So Dr. Rod questions from you. Yeah, we've got people in our audience who perhaps are starting their educational technology business, or they're just thinking, coming up with the concept of it. What would be your, your ideas for these new companies? if you could share. Kind of the type of strategy you offered to me in no time in our last. Sure.
Dr. Rod Berger:So that, that is a, that is a, that's a big, broad question, but I appreciate that because it's, it gives me some latitude. I think one of the things that I've learned over the years, Jackie, is that, you know, sadly communication and marketing is, is the stepchild and developing a business. Right? So it's one of the last things, the last frontiers of going to market. And you know, now of course I'm biased. I'm a big believer that it should be one of the very first things, right? So if you are starting out with an idea or you were at an early stage, your ability to communicate your value proposition right out of the gate is going to do a couple of things. One you're going to really hone in on the types of people you need to hire internally to support that messaging, right? That vision. It's also going to help to support those. That might be potential collaborators, understand what you're offering the market and, or. Openness to collaboration. I think the days of going it alone and I've seen that firsthand, where technology companies, you know, they sort of, they get stuck in the mud and say, we're going to do this on our own. You know, we don't care that this has already been developed and iterated against over the years. We're going to do, we've got something better. That to me is very dangerous. This is a collaborative world that we live in. It is truly a global classroom and a global economy. And to understand the messaging is not just about pitching or selling a product or a solution, but it's about inviting others into your own party. Right. That that's the key. You just never know. Who's listening. You never know who's reading. You never know who's watching or walking by you at an exhibit, within a conference. You want to expand? You want to build out, right? Messaging has a life of its own. It's not something that we just have to do to get it out there. We're not just putting up a billboard, but we're communicating about ecosystem. And if I do my job well, Jackie, you want to join in that ecosystem. And so does Tom that's that's when we really think about it. So if you're an early stage or you're just sort of getting an idea off the ground, you do want to spend some time. And it can be painstaking right in the beginning to understand what you want to accomplish. It's like anybody who's ever written, you know, a doctoral thesis or they've done any sort of, sort of big, impactful writing. We have big ideas at the outset and we start to whittle away at that. Like we're a woodworker and we start to figure out, ha this is what is. Revealing itself in what we're offering. Here's the value right here are the challenges and the opportunities. And now I can feel comfortable speaking in front of an investor or a potential collaborator. So the messaging to me is, is really front and center. I've seen too many companies along the way that focused their sprints or their R and D in areas that they believed internally would meet a market need without doing the market Intel or research to understand if that was the. necessity. And that's sad because you, you lose runway on your investment or whatever seed money maybe you have at the outset because you didn't figure those things out. And messaging is a great way to do that.
Jackie Guzda:No, I'm so glad that we talked to you because. We had that. Pre-interview with you a few weeks ago. And I spoke with one of my marketing majors who was a student in one of my classes at Western Connecticut state university. And he was just telling me how they study marketing in the university. Up in Connecticut and it's pretty old school. So I also have students who I have a student who has half a million views on his, his YouTube channel. And I think he's doing a terrific job. I would like to come in and talk to the marketing. So, what I'm saying to our audience right now is that this is what is on the cutting edge. And if you have any questions, any comments, Dr. Burger's brain, please put your comments in the chat box. I'd love to have him here. Right now. So as we talk about that, I had to notice Dr. Rod, that you, in one of your posts and one of your social media pages, you were talking about a new business learning to stair-step. It's way to success. And I think that's where most of our audience is. If you could be a little more specific about them for them to least.
Dr. Rod Berger:Yeah. I mean, stair-stepping is really, you know, can you do. I think appropriate evaluation of where you are, and be really open to competitors. And part of that, to me, it's really about turning around. So if I'm walking up as if we're sort of using that as our metaphor here or the analogy, you know, do I take time to sort of turn around and see what's what is in my purview, that I might not have been looking at if I was so singularly focused on walking up the steps of building my business, because. You know, you do. Every one of us runs the risk that there is either someone or some company or entity doing it the same, better, different. And can we incorporate, and can we pivot based on that? Right. So it goes a little bit, it goes back to some of what I was saying previously. This is we're having these conversations and getting yourself out there, I think is really cool. You know, I'll work with CEOs of ed tech companies on media coaching and talk with them about in essence matching or whining the way in which they're communicating opportunity and value with their solution, with others that are competing against them. Right. And, and, or the brand message that they have sort of formerly out there in the public eye, public domain. And oftentimes they don't match up at all. Right. They're they're not, they're not sort of linked. They're not inclusive of. Current events and news changes in policy funding sentiment, right? I mean, we are sort of in the hotbed of it right now with every day, there is a new story that comes out about the way in which public schools in general are interfacing. with Their local communities and not to talk politics, and bring politics into the conversation. But it, this is a time where communication is absolutely at the center of what we're doing here, to be able to communicate what we're doing, why we're doing it and who we're affiliated with. And so if you're going to stair-step your company. It's good practice for leadership to be out there having conversations, just like when I met Dotan at ASU GSV, right? That's a very well-known conference where you have investors, you have people who, who in essence have quote unquote made it. Those that are working to make it, that's important. Folks like Dotan and other CEOs and founders, they need to practice their pitch. Right. They need to practice the communication of that and also see what other companies are doing, because hopefully that will inform that early stage CEO on what that next step should look like. And based on sort of what type of. I think we, we kind of forget timelines, right? We teach our young children timelines. We sort of walk them through the process of how to get ready in the day in the morning, right. For school to get to the bus, to all these sorts of things. We start to lose that as we get older. But if you're building a business, understand your timelines, right? Because they're going to be elements that you want to go to market, or you want public facing, and they're going to be other things. That are behind the scenes. Now how to work is going on to be able to do that. And when do you communicate that message? So it's not linear at all. You're going up a number of different stairwells and you want to be able to be very strategic in the sequence. And I'm very big in sequence. Jackie, are we mindful of sequence because you can sort of, you can overshoot the market. You know, dozens of examples where companies have done that and, and they missed their mark. So I think stair-stepping is important, but it's really the stair-stepping is about auditing yourself. And are you communicating what you are intending to communicate? Because you could be inadvertently sending the wrong message and losing an opportunity. So the stair-step is really about an audit and paying attention to who you've got on board, what you're offering and does it really fit the market at that point in time?
Jackie Guzda:Hmm. So how does one begin that process?
Dr. Rod Berger:Well, gee, you want to get rid of the yes. People now. That's not, that's not a novel idea. Right? So people have said that for what feels like centuries is just to say, you know, you don't want to surround yourself with people who just say you're amazing, or your ideas of the best and walk into a. A significant number of ed tech companies. And I'll guarantee you that their leadership are comprised of a certain percentage that are just yes, folks, right? You want to have challengers. You want to have people that said, well, wait a minute, we're doing something very similar to a legacy company. Do we understand the long-term ramifications of that? And, or it's like when I do my interviews or if I'm interviewing a company relative to my Forbes work, you, I want to know what is your, what's your ex. Right. And some early stage folks, they get rattled by that because they're in it for the mission, the purpose, right. They have a vision and the team, but you want to be able to understand what is your exit? Because there will come a day where you have to cross that threshold, whether it's that you close your doors, whether it's that you bring on partners, whether it's that you expand the offering and you bundle with other companies, there are a number of different exits, but you want to be able to. You want to be able to navigate that conversation with confidence and also openness
Jackie Guzda:And we have a question from the audience, but I've just got to slip one. Let me slip one. As you were stair-stepping yourself at the beginning, did you slip on the steps
Dr. Rod Berger:sometimes? Oh my goodness. Absolutely. No, that's a great question. I mean, I think that you, I mean, look, we, you know, the, the, the fear of failure is real and our ability to understand personal resilience, and sort of Gusto when you need it. Right. It's sort of that, you know, you're Marty McFly in back to the future and you gotta get the DeLorean to start and you're hitting your head on that, right? on the, on the, on the dash, you need those moments and slipping. Sometimes we need to slip because it helps us to refocus on what's the purpose and what's the meaning of what we're doing. Right. I, I saw a fantastic story the other day, of a company that, was just acquired. And it's a group that I've known for a number of years and it was very mission-driven right out of the gate. And they made a lot of, personal bets to keep things. Basically moving and I'm so happy for them because they stuck it out. They had, I'm sure a number from what I could tell slip ups here and there, but they learned from it, right. They learned each time and they got better and better and better, and they were open and then the right groups saw their value. And now they they're realizing what most entrepreneurs want to realize. So I think slipping is, is very important and not to fear that, but also not to ignore the experience of that because failure is a part of entrepreneurship. you know, there, there are many days that are, you have more days where you feel isolate. Then you do engaged and excited. That's just the truth of the matter, right? The anxiety, the things that people don't talk about, all we ever hear about are the success stories or the bottom out failures, where for whatever reason, it's just a, you know, a catastrophic event has happened. but what we don't talk about it, we don't talk about with our undergraduate or grad. Students at the university level. I work, every year I work, with Vanderbilt's Owen graduate school of management and their business students. And, you know, we don't talk about that gray area, that middle layer of experience that it's real, it's tanning. I guarantee you Dotan and I could have a conversation offer where we discussed, how you manage anxiety. It almost becomes a person in your room, in your office, in your home office that you just know is there. Right? So with every success. There's the underbelly of wait a minute. As another client, not potentially happy are we, did we make a mistake on that higher? So those are, those are the realities of it. And I think failure, failure, and the ability to understand it live with it and embrace it as important.
Dotan Tamir:Are they here nodding all the time? And of course we can have that discussion. Being an entrepreneur. I really relate to what you said about not falling in love too much in your thoughts and ideas and, and assumptions, the same way that you don't want to fall in love in your product features and stuff like that, because it has to be validated with the audience. there are. There are so many times so many stories about, startup companies that just fall in love with their ideas and then find out after working so hard that this is not really what the, what the market needs. So a and you speak about the, the, the fear of failure and, you know, failure as you, as you say. And then I, I totally agree. Failing is part of the road. actually, I don't know. I don't think they know. Successful company that didn't have so many failures along the road, along the route, the route. yeah. And, you know, being an insect minority is, is a bumpy road it's every day, every day. And you know, you always have some kind of a roadmap and where are you heading? And, you know, and, and you can also, you know, put that a flag on the end of this road. This is how it's going to look like. The reality that is that it never looks like what you planned for it always changing. And if you don't look to the sides, you know, you will get somewhere that is already behind or not relevant for the world.
Dr. Rod Berger:And I think that's, that's a pain point. I know we have a question you want to get to Jackie, but real, real quickly, you know, There are so many times we think about we early on, I mentioned that sort of the communication, the marketing of a product or a brand seems to come too late or later in the process of building a business. And I think one of the challenges is that inherently. We're subconsciously as leaders. We really don't want to talk about that because it might mean that we have to communicate the journey, the process, and we know internally, right. We know personally that it is not been just filled with rainbows. Right. There have been potholes. There have been challenged. And if I think about anything related to the communication of my company, my product, my brand, I think that there is an internal fear that some of that's going to seep in and we don't want to do that. We want to come across as poised, responsible, right to the investment community. We want to be invigorating and inventive to those that are creative, that can help us on our journey. So I think that that does play a role for folks where it's a challenge for them as their.
Jackie Guzda:So our question is, and it relates to what you're talking about is what advice do you have for reigning in the number of options? A small business supplies are education websites. Social can easily get bogged down with lots of options, but then again, science love having flexible. How do you figure out where the
Dr. Rod Berger:line is? So really, so the question, I appreciate that question, you know, it speaks to how much do we offer the market, right. So that's, that's really the question. And, and, and it goes down, it comes down to sequence as well. So at what point are we starting to release or sort of release these product, these iterations of what we're offering? because it can become overwhelming. I look, every, every company is unique and I think it was actually back to the exit question. Right. If you think that your communication strategy should be linear and it is just, I sell this, this pen and I want Dr. Jackie to buy this pen, then I'm missing the mark completely because I may want the ma I may want Sharpie or another like maker of pens and markers and highlighters. I may want them to pay attention. I may want presentation companies to pay attention. I may want other technologies that have to do with pens in my iPad. It's not linear. Right? And so if you understand your exit and your objective, that should then allow you to basically deconstruct and say, well, wait a minute, why are we offering all of these solutions when we've actually looked at it? You know, 90% or a majority of our sales are based on these three items. And if it's based on those three items, are we associating communication strategies with them? It's like, I was speaking with a, with a group a couple of months ago and I asked them, I said, well, what features are being utilized the most within your platform? They did not. Now, I don't think that they're alone. Right. So I think your, your reaction is, is one that would be expected, Jackie. But I think that that, that actually is, is more normal than not right. Because it's one of those things we just start to forget. We sort of get into the wheel of building a company and we said, well, wait a minute. Because I think sometimes we can't separate mission with reality. So my mission might be that I want to bring. Whatever product to the market, because I've just been, I've wanted to do this my whole life and I bring it to market, but I've also had these other ad-ons that are part of the solution. Well, it just so happens that maybe the things that I just added on there, the things that people are actually buying, not the core component that has really been about my identity or that's how I connect to what I'm doing. And so maybe I don't want really want to. But boy, there are big business implications and not knowing that because if you do know, but wait a minute, this is our usage falls in these categories. Well, your communication strategies should align with that. And that may or may not make your exit story. Pivot, right. I may be more open to other things. Right. There's so many tech technology platforms that have, they just sort of throw in the kitchen sink because they think that's what they w what the buyer wants at the district level. And especially in K-12 w well, maybe it is sort of low-hanging fruit that they're buying well, you better understand that because that Williams. Sort of what you're offering and you might find that we've got five to seven things that we're offering to people aren't buying it all. Would it, would it be advantageous to basically prune the Rose Bush maybe? Right. So that's how I look at it. one, I mean, it goes back to the audit. Do you know what people are using? And if they're not using you for that solution, one, find out why and find out if you're communicating that, like in essence, part of your audit is also talking about your sales. I find that's fascinating. That's that's grab your adult beverage popcorn and sit down with sales folks and understand what they're actually pitching and see if it lines up with what leaders are saying to investors, to other collaborative partners or partnerships, and I'll bet you, there's a chasm that's pretty wide and that can impact, right? Because if I'm in sales and I know that I'm selling Jackie's product and for whatever reason, whenever I bring up this one, I get people who, who nibble. Right. They want more, well, you're going to keep running down that path because you're getting a response and you won't care if that's the core component or not. You're just getting a yes to a phone call. You're getting a yes to it. Implications to your business.
Jackie Guzda:Wow. Well, to our member of the audience, I certainly hope that helped you along. And I want to encourage everybody else out there. You have an opportunity to pick the brain. Thank you. So you're welcome for the rest of you. Please pick the brain of the master right now, but the master is also a Forbes contributor, and he just published this amazing article about a company. And if you could, Pronounce it for us, we think advise you
Dr. Rod Berger:or B is telling
Jackie Guzda:you were right. So, by shoe, could you tell us a little bit about this company and how it might affect the market in America once they enter
Dr. Rod Berger:it? Yeah. I mean, look, this is the, for me, it's the, it's the icing on the cake to, to what I do to be able to spend time with people and learn about not just what they're selling or the growth of their company, but really who they are. And, and, you know, Forbes is a fantastic platform to be able to do that. So I'm, I'm privileged to be able to talk with folks from all over the world that are doing some really interesting things that will have an impact. I, I guess I would take you back. it's probably been a decade now. Hence the gray hair, but. The event inside parliament, in London, a number of years ago when we were talking about viability that tech solutions in areas around the world. And there was this question that was being bantered about, and it was really sort of the relative, viability of, of India as an ed tech market. Did they have the infrastructure and these sorts of things. And I, at the time I had been contributing to a publication in India called ed tech review, who had been taking my interviews and, and republishing them. I knew of a culture that was so incredibly dedicated to the young people and innovators that were working all hours of the night. And that if I, if I am or send somebody a text in India, it didn't matter the time it was over there, they would respond to me. Th there's something here and you sort of fast forward. And I get a phone call from a PR group. That's working with BYJU'S and asking if I'd like to, to cover, you know, for the story, right? Give me the exclusive in this regard and the background of it. And it's amazing to see the growth because they're really the largest company now in education. In the world and it's just, it's just incredible. It's a, it's a couple, Divya and Byju who have worked tirelessly. And I think very methodically and thoughtfully about how they bring their vision to the United States. And they're not, this goes back to what I was saying a little bit earlier. This is not about them doing it on their own, right. They've incorporated in investors and acquisition partners that are already here in the US or north America. Right. So this is not about we're coming to. Sort of, you know, bring what we expect or what we know. This is a collaborative, very global approach. And I think it's amazing because I go back to those conversations inside parliament, when you know, very powerful people or perceived powerful people will talking about this sort of, you know, reticence to working in India. And yet now we are. Really at the direction of a company that is based in India, that is doing amazing things and understands learning. and I'm sure they're experiencing slip ups here and there, but the confidence, that they bring both as individuals and as a couple, I think is it is very inspiring. So it's a. You know, and there were, by the way, Jackie, the response has been, it's been incredible to that story. you know, I, it's almost, I, I need a separate email address because it's just been incredible that people want these stories, because I think whether you're a Dotan and you're, you know, you're at a stage that click to is, or you are a buys use and you have a valuation of, you know, 16 and a half billion dollars in climbing, you still want. Billing, but I'm sure that that's already outdated as of last week kind of a thing, because they're just continuing to grow.
Dotan Tamir:And that's double than what it was less than a year ago. Yeah.
Dr. Rod Berger:Yeah. It continues to grow. but I think it's about the story, Jackie. I think that that's really the key. People want to understand what's going on because they're there just like you and I, and, and, you know, they just might have responsibilities and sort of the weight of them at different levels. but they were incredibly. I think compassionate in their messaging and they were very kind and thoughtful with their time. So, I enjoy that, but you know, I've had just as much fun talking with folks who are. You know, startups and they are working on, on solutions and other parts of the country, or world, right? So drew Edwards of Pangea, I'm a big fan of what, what they're doing and the books that they developed so that they're reflective of the young people in Africa that are reading them. Right. So that we're looking at how. Young people are reflected in the actual learnings that they're experiencing. So the stories could go sort of on and on. And I've been very blessed to be able to talk to some luminaries in this space. One that comes to mind for sure is the late sir, Ken Robinson. he, you know, gave me one of my initial breaks and, it was just amazing. You know, I've spent, I spent, I was lucky to spend time with him. I've got to know one, if he. mentees Richard Gerber out of, out of the United Kingdom, who is one of the most incredible, former, head teachers that I've ever met in my life. And he's a dear friend now doing amazing things, but this, this platform of Forbes and the media does afford me, a ticket into conversations that I wouldn't otherwise have. And in my objective is really to be able to hope, you know, to share those experiences so that people hopefully learn. from them Wow.
Jackie Guzda:So you've had many masters teaching you.
Dr. Rod Berger:Oh yes. Oh yes. Yeah. Actually. I mean, even you saying that to me, it's, you know, it doesn't feel like that at all. I mean, this is, this is about lifelong learning. I mean, I think that's the one shift, right? So I'm going to be 45. And I think in my generation, we were still on sort of the edges of. That traditional hierarchy climbing the ladder, that there are basically segments that you have to successfully navigate. Well, we know that the current generation, right, the, the young folks that are exploding onto the scene, they don't have any of those rules. Right? So they, this is, this is about their entire lifetime. This is not about, they don't even conceive of the term retirement, right. That doesn't come to mind for them. That's the world of three of us now playing in the sandbox. And I think that that should be a part of our mindset as well. Right. It's about legacy building. You
Jackie Guzda:talked, where you touched upon people, these young people in India and the climate of wanting more and very education. How has perhaps buys you or some other projects that you have dealt with? How did, how does it reach out and help those currently underserved students and learners?
Dr. Rod Berger:Well, here's all the approach. That question. I think it's about I'm going to speak from the sector perspective. So a number of years ago, I was recording interviews on camera at USD. I'm obviously one of the most well-known conferences. And I remember speaking to some people in the gaming industry that were basically putting their proverbial toe into the educational waters. Right. And they were just exploring with me off camera. You know, we're just not sure is this an industry that we can innovate within and around? Like, are the parameters set up to for a really healthy ecosystem, right? Or there are too many basically rules and, or, Set of rules in the buying cycle that is just going to prevent us from really wanting to do what we think we can do. I think some of that has changed over the years. And so my answer to your question is it's more about, are we providing a lens and an opportunity and a platform for young entrepreneurs and innovators to look at education as a viable sector to disrupt. That to me is the key, right? And th the, the ripple effect of that is that my kids and the audience and those that have kids in school that they benefit because they get to experience technology that has been thoughtfully developed in collaboration with other leaders around the world. But I think it really starts at the front end. Are we creating a vibrant, healthy ecosystem for business owners and innovators to want to basically participate with them? And if we're not. We will start to see things die off and opportunity. Right? And so that, that to me is the crux of it. So there's so many products and solutions that do amazing things that my kids benefit from. You know, their friends benefit from all over the country, in the world. But it's really about the ecosystem, the opportunity to be able to do it in a healthy way. That is fun and creative. I mean, think about the industry over the last decade. It was wait a minute. We have to digitize everything. One that was boring. That was lazy. And it wasn't creative. Take my physical paper, put it on a screen. And we call that ed tech. That's not a. That's just called, we're holding on for dear life and we're not really sure what's going to happen. Okay. That's like, I don't have access to my weather channel app and I don't know if there's a tornado coming, so I'm just going to do something, right. So we went from that to let's make everything bright and shiny because we think that if we, you know, it's like, it's declaring a demographic. If we're talking advertising and it's like, well, what let's do the Disney let's make everything showy and flashy and fun and makes you want to come into the park. Well, that doesn't mean that there's learning, that's attached to that. And so we've morphed through that. Right? We had gamification that came in and people said, oh, that's not really going to help. Right. We need kids to learn because we had some preconceived notion that learning meant you can't have fun and it can't be engaging. So we've come a long way. Over the last 10 to 15 years, we have a long way to go. But I think those that are hopefully holding the. Sort of the, not the purse strings, but that are at a certain level of success that they can help foster the next generation. Right. So that they're not in essence going to iterate around healthcare or other industries, you know, bring them into our ecosystem because we know the benefit in a global economy.
Dotan Tamir:So let's ask you something regarding that, that, that the sector and the entrance of, by Jews to the U S market, So obviously they are there. They're big and there are many, they're bringing in many new products to the market, and a lot of money. what does it mean for competition? and I'll ask you two from two different perspective, right? From the perspective of existing providers, organizers, and to companies that are already, you know, working in the ed in the U S market, what does it mean for them, but also for those who are. You know, looking at this sector, thinking about it. and now seeing that there's already such a big monster starting to, get into the market, there, do we even have a chance to start right.
Dr. Rod Berger:So great question. So I remember, I don't remember the year, but, but a number of years ago I was moderating a panel at south by Southwest EDU and there were some amazing people on the panel. And so we had sort of a standing room, only environment, if you can just kind of picture this and I'll never forget because. Member stood up during the Q and a, and basically was communicating your question. All right. So this was a small business owner in the ed tech space saying that he was actually imploring the U S DOE the department of education to basically set definitions and rules as to what may be a learning management system is, or a student information system basically. Keeping or holding in time what these solutions are and what they are not because the fear at that time was legacy companies through acquisition can gobble up market share and redefine the space, leaving small shops and entrepreneurs out in the cold with little sort of investment runway. An investor might say, I really don't want to invest in a company that could get gobbled up, or that has to continue to redefine reiterate who they really are because now we have a brand new understanding of what an SIS is or what you know, name sort of the, the area, within the education sector. So I don't know if I have a good answer to that, but I will say that the environment seems to be much more collaborative than it was even five years. So that this, but here, this goes back to a ton of messaging, right? Like if I am, if I'm in charge of an EdTech company, I want to be, I'm going to be as mindful. If not more mindful of the companies out there that are doing something similar to what I'm building, because maybe I want them to pay attention to what I'm doing. And maybe what we do in our shop, the proverbial shop is that unique, that proprietary. Maybe they want to bring us on board or maybe there's an opportunity to collaborate. Right. But I think that's this sort of David versus Goliath, and we're going to focus on our shop, doing it our way without collaboration, we'll limit your opportunities. I think it's more about expanding those opportunities and look, the market will perceive. Some strength within even a startup, right. But it ties around messaging or you out there into the public domain. So many are not because they leave that communication component, that marketing and branding for the very end, because if they've got investors at the, at the outset, they are beholden to them. So it's all about their MVP. It's all about sort of what they're putting together. And who they answer to. And I think they have that backwards because you want to be competitive in a global marketplace where you do have legacy companies coming in there. I mean, they're like aircraft carriers. You need to know where they're going and pay attention to them. Like in essence, don't be afraid of that and find ways to draw attention to what you're doing. And what they're doing, right? So I think there's an awareness and it ties to that audit and the stair-stepping and being, being open to what people are doing and not afraid to say that there might be other people doing it better or different or bigger than what you.
Dotan Tamir:I think, you know, from a, from a point of view of entrepreneur, a competition can be frightening. But to me personally, I always loved for the patient. I always thought competition is the key, is the key to, to success. and. Especially in a sector like ethic. When we look at the consumers, right? The whole consumption of education is being disrupted at the moment. and, and just the beginning and just the beginning of this, this revolution in education. So once. People once, then the audience will get used to more and more to these new forms of technology in education, new forms of education, the demand will grow. And the invasion will be, you know, would be consumed and people will want new things. People were a little bit afraid of new things in education, a little bit, very, very afraid of new things. Think of education. but now with, with those kinds of giants and more and more attention given to this second. Especially because those big companies that are taking part of it, I think there will be a transport, huge transformation in the way people consume education. And to me that means four click two and four click to customers. You know, education providers, course providers. It means that now it's the time. To, to build new things, to start looking at how the, those, big companies like pagers or other are doing business or are doing education and see how you can innovate even as a small, as a small, a player in this game.
Jackie Guzda:I'm a very small player in this game as college professor. And one thing that I noted in the advice you articles that visor himself said that we are about to, once again, enter the golden age of teachers. You agree with
Dr. Rod Berger:this? I do. and I think it's more about even being a parent than it even has to do with someone who like myself works within the, the sector of education. I think we, it look a silver lining if you can call it that to an awful tragedy, which is a global pandemic, is it has forced us to address. Questions, issues that have been here for a long time and to do so in a way that says, we don't really have time to play the old game of well, we'll sort of figure it out as we go and placate those that might be pundits to whatever we're doing. We have to really figure this out now. Right. We have to understand the value of remote learning. Be able to evaluate technologies to see if they make a difference, if they are creative to what we are doing. And if not, they need to go by the wayside and, or we need to find different ways to be able to present them and sequence them in more of a mosaic. The same goes for educators, right? I mean, we heard countless stories in the popular press around teachers that basically said, and to include leaders at the district level. That's a, this really isn't for me, this is not sort of what I was trained to do. And I'm going to take early retirement. I actually spoke to a superintendent out of Pennsylvania just two days ago when he was one that did that. He, he decided that, you know, this was sort of his time in that regard. And I applaud him for, for acknowledging that and recognizing that. You know, but is it the golden age for teachers? Yeah, I think we're probably going to enter into that because we're going to start to see the types of talent and skill sets that are required in a world where we might have hybrid learning environments. We might have setups where kids are physically in school. On some sort of broken up schedule where one month they're there in person and another month they're online or we just don't know, but I think we have to be prepared. And I think for some it creates opportunity or like I've talked to teachers off the record who are incredibly excited about now being able to talk about the technology because they are of a generation where, you know, they're, they're natives, this is just second nature to them. And a lot of kids are enjoying it. So look, there will be. And there have been some challenges to understanding in essence where the benefits are. There could be an underside of that, meaning that there are some detractions to it, right? Some things that we need to fix and understand, and the application and understanding of what a child is experiencing when they are interfacing with technology. I think it's gonna make us savvier when it comes to our spending habits as districts, you know, You know, putting a sales cycle or putting companies through these sort of archaic, ridiculously long and arduous sales cycles and seasons, it doesn't really benefit anybody. It's just bureaucratic in nature. Right. Do we have the funds? Do we not? Can we pivot? What are we looking for? Are we asking the right questions? And I think a benefactor a benefactor of that is going to be the teacher, the teacher force, It's to say, look, we are. We can iterate. We can, we can think more on our feet. and I think that's important. I think any industry, you want to have some disruption to understand what are we doing, right. You know, what have we not thought about and what can we do? I mean, we're seeing that as a parallel. It's just something that's near and dear to me. But we're seeing that in the media, right? The podcast podcasting world has grown exponentially. So that's not that this is not breaking news, but when you have, when you have thought leaders and provocateurs who are building out their own podcast networks, it's changing the way we consume media. Right. I like Malcolm Gladwell a lot. He's got his Pushkin network. Right. And what do I like about these networks where you've got someone like a Malcolm black. I it's almost like his reading list. These are people that he finds interesting that he feels should be invested in to help them share a story. Right. It's like Michael Lewis, the author from Moneyball and get you all these sorts of things. You know, he's got his show within the Pushkin. That's interesting to me. And as a derivative, I think, well, Malcolm Gladwell must see him as an interesting individual and contributor to, to, you know, to, to society. And so I want to follow that. So I think we learn all sorts of things through challenging times. And I, and I, by the way, I'll close with this. I hope that colleges of education are paying it to. And I don't mean that to be, you know, sarcastic at all, but are we paying attention because can we help to support those that are training to be the next classroom, facilitators and leaders? I hope so because. Sort of the same old, same old is not going to cut it. And by the way, a note to colleges of education, you have a new auditor at the table and it's called the parent or the caregiver, right? We've never been more engaged in what our children are doing in school than we are now. And our antennas are up on what is good teaching. What we think is good teaching and the same goes for technology.
Jackie Guzda:Yeah. So what do you see about the future of
Dr. Rod Berger:self-learning? Well, I think we are beginning to be the leaders as adults and self-learning right. It's that goes back to that lifelong learning. I mean, it's, you know, it's it's masterclass generation, right. It's finding things, you know, used to it. Of my own accord. Am I reading right on a regular basis? Am I taking time out to grow? and we just have so many examples now on platforms where we can basically download and dive in and audit classes. Right. I mean, think about it. What used to take, if I really wanted to know that, you know, I met Dr. Jackie and I'm in her area and I'd love to just audit one of her classes. One that would have been just such a novel idea to be a 45 year old man and wanting to go audit some college class. Right. But maybe I do it because I'm I'm, I, I just have. That's sort of my approach to things. I just sort of jump out there. Right. I'm aggressive in that. Well, now I don't have to do that. Right. I have, I have thought leaders like Dr. Jackie from all over the world where I can in essence feel as if it's a one-on-one class, that's, that's incredibly powerful. And I think that that will help to support the conversations that parents have with their kids. It will help us to understand what should higher education look like. That's an entirely different topic because that's one scared sector. Right? You have, you have, you know, just rows of, of young people that are saying, I don't know if college is for me. does it provide the ROI at the end of the day? I don't know. And so I think we're going to, we're going to be, we're sort of right in the middle of a major transformation that we don't even really talk about that much, at least, you know, I don't think people are talking about at the bus stop, which is. What's college going to look like, especially in the US like, what is it going to look like? Is it necessary? Are we talking to hiring managers and the HR world or the Sherms of the world? Are we talking to them about what corporations are looking for? Midsize companies? I don't know. The last time I've made a recommendation that anybody cared, where anybody went to school or what degree they had, or they didn't have, they, they went right down the list to what was it? What's their experience been? And then how did they present themselves? Right. Can I trust them client facing? Can I engage with. them Because I could teach them anything in essence. Right. We have training for that. We believe enough in what we're selling, right. Or representing as a brand that we can onboard people. So, I think we are, we're going to look back and say, oh my goodness, we didn't even know what was a foot. And it was just trembling, neither feet. Well,
Jackie Guzda:that is very exciting. Number one, number two, you mentioned thought leaders. So Andrew BA Barry is going to be Witless on lifelong educators on October 6th. So are you in the audience ready to expand your education business into the online stuff? As our guests has been talking about head into the future of online learning with cohort based courses, upcoming class course of action with Andrew Berry is the perfect way to move forward successfully. Difference-making lessons join Andrew for eight weeks as he shares everything he's learned in his 15 years of teaching. How to create a learning community as we are doing now, how to scale your impact, what to prioritize, and even how much to charge you and your cohort members. We'll build a community of online educators, ask questions here from education experts and become the superstar teachers along the way. So please join us on October six and you can speak here with Andrew Berry. But I want to get back to our wonderful guests today. And Dr. Berger, you had mentioned in one of your social media posts, something about three types of entrepreneurs. You said that there is, the, I can't find my notes, but you said there were three types of entrepreneurs. And could you speak about that?
Dr. Rod Berger:So that was actually buys you himself. Those were his entrepreneurial sort of his, his frame of reference or his approach to entrepreneurs. I here's what I would say about, when I think about types of entrepreneurs, I, you know, Jackie, regardless of the label or the title, right. Or the bucket, we might put people in. I think it's about. It kind of goes back to me. I know it's a popular maybe overused term, but it is, it really is about grit, right? It's, it's more about, and so you can put it in, you know, you know, whatever the buckets are, right. And the types of entrepreneurs, but do you have grit because you may have a different approach to leadership. It's a, I'm a big sports fan and they'll talk in, in football, American football. They'll talk about, you know, someone's motor like on defense. Like he just has a, he has a motor that you just can't teach. Right. He just plays through the whistle. Like you just can't, you don't have to motivate this individual. Right. She just goes at it full bore all the time. And I think that that is something where you either have it or you don't it's. Not to be, I guess maybe, a wet blanket here, but I do think it's something that you have to have kind of internally, but there there's a, there's a certain makeup of individuals. Are better suited maybe to be an entrepreneur than others. and that it's not, it's not black or white or an either, or it's probably more of a spectrum, that, you know, there are different traits that we all have, but at the base of it, to have that grit, to be able to get up from a standing eight count right in boxing, or do you know to get up when you've been knocked down or when you get the email. Just not what you wanted. Right. And it, I would bet you that almost all we won't speak in absolutes, but almost every entrepreneur has had the experience where you have, you have that high of acquiring a client or reaching a milestone and inevitably within sort of a certain window, let's call it a 72 hour. You get news on the other kind, which is you've lost a client or someone, you know, can't fulfill the order or they can't, or you lost an employee. I mean, it's, it's part of the nature of the beast and to have that grit, You know, sort of pick the pick and choose the label that fits the individual entrepreneur. But I think that that's the, that's the thing, you know, and it's not about also being showy and, speaking as if nothing is wrong. I mean, I, I go back to an individual who is an incredible human being who, who I know who has his own business and forever, whenever I would see this individual, he would talk about everything. It's amazing. It's incredible. And I kept wondering what's the backstory what's underneath that because. There's just, I just don't innocence by that. Everything is just that great. There's gotta be some middle ground here. And then if an individual would always talk about growth of his company and he would always say, we right, we as a team, or we are doing this and one day maybe I hadn't had enough sleep, Dr. Jackie, or I hadn't had enough coffee, but I went ahead and said, well, gosh, that's great news. You say, Wheeler, how big is your team gotten? Well, I'll sort of cut to the chase here. If it was still a team of one. But the pressure that this individual felt to communicate growth over time was immense. And, and to me, it's, it's okay. I mean, our, our stories, our, our, our own stories right there, and they will be great, in their own way. And it does take grit to be able to do that because I hated to see that this individual is a great human being, a fantastic dad and community member feels or felt the pressure to communicate growth. That really wasn't there because it was this perceived notion that gosh, if I don't show. If I don't show incremental. Then the failure creeps in, right? So this ties to messaging comfort around messaging, right. Feeling comfortable in our skin as an entrepreneur. So
Dotan Tamir:I think it's, you know, sometimes we just call it, fake it till you make it, because this is how you do it. I mean, as an entrepreneurial or you, you know, it all goes back to, how you started the conversation a bit about communication and you have to communicate. And even when you've done have. Everything ready. You still have to communicate some stuff that is, on the work and, and, and ongoing. And then we'll be there at some point. but, but, but I think it's a normal, natural light, you know, I do it myself, here and there. fake it till you make it. And, and it works at the end of the day. Of course, if you have the, if you have that, that great, if you can. Hold on to it. And the day and past that day by day, challenge of, all those ups and downs,
Jackie Guzda:you know, we had John Gamba as a guest on, and he talked about how learners need. But also what you're pointing out rod is that entrepreneurs need grit, phones. So, and it's very important.
Dr. Rod Berger:It's frustration tolerance. If you think about it, right. Can I tolerate frustration? Right. So can I, can my set, my newly minted seven-year-old tolerate frustration around. Right. Learning to read and write. we see that in young children, we can see that as they grow, they find different ways to express their frustration or their anger or basically their emotions. But what about when we're adults? Right? What have we forgotten along the way that can impact our ability? Present in the moment with our team be present for the upcoming meeting, the present, you know, you kind of get where I'm going with that. And it does tie, I think, to grit and poise, but it's really acknowledging the experience of an entrepreneur. I think that's one thing that we, I think we can all do a better job of, because it's, it shouldn't be taken lightly, the sacrifice and the commitment that entrepreneurs across the globe are taking. And we are the better. Because they have decided to step up and, and sort of take on the challenge.
Jackie Guzda:Hmm. So unfortunately we are running short on time. So is there anything else that you would like to add to, or for our community Dr. Berger?
Dr. Rod Berger:Well, I would just say, and I've, I've actually put this out on LinkedIn earlier. The response that I've gotten as a result of that, that latest piece has been so overwhelming that I. You know, if I, if there were enough hours in the day, I would cover as many stories as I, as I could possibly cover. but that's just not the case. And I like to take a deeper dive into things. So, I encourage people, I put a post up with a link where you can fill in your contact information so I can evaluate sort of what my upcoming articles will explore. So I encourage that and I, and again, I. I think sometimes the most interesting stories are not actually those that have completely made it or achieved some level of success that we all say they've made it. So this is not about, are we big enough to have someone write about us? No. It's about the stories about the people behind that, because that makes a difference in my children's lives as a dad. So I've encouraged. And encourage that, feel free to connect with a strategist group where a I'm a proud partner in what is accomplished for the support of businesses in education here in the U S and abroad and otherwise, you know, feel free to connect with me. I'm, I'm an open book in that regard. They can email me personally, it's just burger, dot rod at Gmail. And, I've, I've benefited, in many ways just through. Sheer outreach pulled outreach. and I'm a big believer in that. So please don't hesitate to reach out and if I can be of support, I will, but thank you, Jackie and Dotan for putting this together. I think it's great when we're convening conversations, we have to do, that's how we learn. And so I appreciate you including me into your show.
Dotan Tamir:I learned a lot and I want to say that I really appreciate all that very, very important work that you do. And, you know, in helping this sector in pushing the sector forward in, in bringing in, out there, those, interesting stories and, and beautiful news about the sector. And I'll keep following. Thank you so much. Thank
Dr. Rod Berger:you.
Jackie Guzda:Rod. This was amazing. And I know you've given such insight and encouragement to our community out there. So once more, thanks again. And bye everybody.