Building and Exiting Startups in the Gulf with Victor Abou Rahal

Victor Abou Rahal is a veteran digital transformation and tech leader in the GCC, with more than 25 years helping traditional industries go digital. He is now CEO of Narovate, a Saudi based startup focused on digital water solutions, after leading Boxit For Me through a successful exit and building the digital arm at ADNOC Distribution. In this conversation, Victor shares what he has learned about leadership, exits, and entrepreneurship across oil and gas, logistics, and now water in one of the fastest changing regions in the world.

In this episode we cover:

(00:01:59) How Victor went from computer science student and a night support at an Internet Service Provider to launching his first web development company baddak.com, inheriting 80 clients overnight, then moving to Dubai to lead regional digital transformation projects

(00:03:36) The Boxit4Me journey, using the people, process, platform framework to stabilise a COVID boosted logistics startup, clean up operations, and successfully prepare it for a strategic exit

(00:06:47) Why being a startup CEO felt like a second MBA, constantly switching hats between HR, operations, finance, legal, shareholders, and M&A, and what he now tells first time CEOs about the reality of the role

(00:11:10) How his leadership style evolved through INSEAD’s Global Executive MBA, two decades in the Boy Scouts, and hard lessons about empathy and communication in the tough leadership culture of parts of the Arab world

(00:16:38) The most common founder blind spots he sees when mentoring startups, from hiding in their comfort zone and over focusing on product to underestimating market fit, scalability, competition, mental health, and the choice between lifestyle business and scale up

(00:21:28) His advice for moving from corporate to entrepreneurship in the GCC, why investors prefer 2 or 3 complementary cofounders, how to test yourself as an intrapreneur first, and why resilience and health are non-negotiable

(00:29:16) Why he chose to lead Nerovate in Saudi, how Vision 2030 is reshaping the startup ecosystem, and his belief that sustainability and profitability can reinforce each other when you build the right digital water solutions for the region

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Transcript

00:00:00 NICK LALL
Welcome to the Ajal Edge, a new venture emerging from the NSEAD Emerging Markets Podcast. I'm here today with Victor Abu Rahal, a longtime player in the digital transformation, business development, and tech space in the GCC region. He's really been a leader there for the past quarter century. He's currently the CEO of Narovate. Narovate is a pioneering Saudi -based startup delivering digital water solutions. And water management is really one of the most pressing challenges in the region. It fuels Nerve's mission to revolutionize how we optimize resources, reduce waste, and build a more sustainable future. Prior to this, Victor was CEO of Box It For Me. He was also vice president of digital business at ADNOC Distribution, where he spearheaded projects that modernized that company's digital landscape and enhanced customer experience.

00:00:51 NICK LALL
And as an entrepreneur at heart, Victor has founded and led multiple ventures, including his first company, which he led for almost two decades. Victor holds a global executive MBA from INSEAD along with multiple professional certifications such as a PMP, Six Sigma, and ITIL. And he has been recognized by CIO Global as one of the most promising CEOs to watch in 2024. Thrilled to have Victor on the podcast. I think there's so much to cover, but maybe a great place to start would just to be go back and look at the beginning of your career. I saw that you started your first business more than 20 years ago, and I was curious what your thoughts were at that time. How did you first get into web development, which I believe that business was mostly focused on in digital transformation? I guess you'd say worked in a lot of different industries, but you really helped a lot of different traditional industries in the region digitally transform. So I was wondering what you saw at that time earlier in your career, if you saw that. it would lead to all that you've done now or what the opportunities were at that time but maybe just a brief overview of your background and how it led you to where you are now would be really helpful to start thanks for having me i just want to rectify the name of the company it's called adnoc because you say adnoc just put it that's fine so basically what happened is that i started at university in computer science i always loved technology

00:01:59 VICTOR ABOURAHA
for having me i just want to rectify the name of the company it's called adnoc because you say adnoc just put it that's fine so basically what happened is that i started at university in computer science i always loved technology And at that time, I was working for an ISP as a customer service or night support. That company, after a couple of years, decided to close. And therefore, I opened my own company of doing websites and online services. And I started with about 80 clients directly because I inherited that from that company. So it was an easy start. I run that business for a while. And then I decided that... I'm only gaining some experience from my own and wanted to see more what multinationals do. So I ended up coming to Dubai and I started working into various businesses in the region and mainly into digital transformation and digital solutions. Now,

00:03:03 NICK LALL
it seems you've been incredibly successful since you've done that. Looking at some of the more recent companies that you're working for, you're now at NeroVaid. most recently before that you sold box it for me you were brought in to manage the exit i believe and prepare the bride as you say and you worked on people products and processes i was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that experience why you decided to take that opportunity what you saw in the company and why you believe that it was a company that could be exited profitably the people process

00:03:36 VICTOR ABOURAHA
people process and platform is a framework in digital transformation right usually people they think in digital transformation if you bring a certain technology or solution and you plug it in that's digital transformation well actually they forget the people which is culture and training and change management and the process before they get into the solution so let me take you back on how i got to box it for me as you said i've done the global executive mba at insead And during that period, one of the colleagues started this Boxit for me, which is a cross -border logistics startup company. I've helped them to build the first MVP. And then after that, I went into Adnok, where I was the vice president of Digital Transformation. I built that arm from scratch, and we did some exciting project there. Then COVID came. And because of COVID, as you know, during COVID, everything that is into logistics boomed. So the business of Voxetool for me multiplied in a very short period of time, which made the business become a little bit messy. And then one of the founders who was the CEO asked me to step in as a CEO to basically prepare the bride, fix the company to either bring investors or the best option was to exit, to sell it out and exit. I took that challenge for multiple reasons, but one of them was as an entrepreneur who likes this. space i never had an exit because the previous businesses were mainly for me or mentoring some other people so i took that the challenge and this is what happened for a year we fixed all the aspects of that company and then the year after we had a couple of investors interested in the company that we ended up signing with one and we exited fully so this is what happened there and then after that i went to narrowvate where the shareholders selected me to be the CEO of this startup, which is totally different industry. So Adnok was in oil and gas works it for me was in logistics. And the current one is in the digital solution for the water business and based in Saudi. So again, I took this challenge and I'm here now.

00:05:55 NICK LALL
Amazing. I definitely want to get into the other two leadership positions you held. It's really interesting that you have that leadership in really different industries from each other and i think it shows that maybe deep industry knowledge doesn't really matter if you are a good leader especially if you have that mba training that exposes you to the leadership qualities and culture and change management as you mentioned before i get it to the other companies though i'd be curious to learn more about how that process was selling boxes for me you know were you looking for strategic buyers or financial buyers within the GCC region or were you more broad than that? Did you have a strategy going in knowing that that was the ultimate goal within that short timeframe that you actually were able to sell it? Maybe you could just talk a little bit more about that. I'd love to learn more about what your strategy there was and how you executed on it. My CEO experience in Boxit for me was interesting and challenging.

00:06:47 VICTOR ABOURAHA
My CEO experience in Boxit for me was interesting and challenging. Just to give you an overview of that, while I was previously a CEO, companies but those companies were my own and then i i had positions in structured companies like adnock where you are responsible of let's say the digital transformation arc and therefore you're very focused on your vertical if you want right in box it for me i was a ceo for a a company where you have shareholders and therefore i had to do my my role as a ceo plus report to the shareholders Where it became exciting and more challenging is when we started looking into investors, because then I had not only to run the business, but also to do this kind of work for the acquisition, you know, the valuation, the legal stuff, all of that. Our objective back then, when we decided we want to either find an investor or preferably go to an exit, was to sustain the business. We wanted to make sure that the business will stay. We wanted to make sure that people are protected, not fired. So that was the ultimate goal. And that's why we were focusing on companies that are into the logistics or something similar to that, where Boxit for me would add value to them. As I said, it was very challenging because as a CEO, you have to switch between different hats at a very short period of time. And that's why I call it, it was my second MBA. While in MBA, you cover all aspects of a business, but being the CEO in the shoes of a CEO, you are actually driving that, not in theory, but in practice. So basically, you have to switch every few minutes or 20 minutes or so between different topics. Like you do 20 minutes HR, then you do 20 minutes operation, then customer service, then product development, then legal. then shareholders, then partners, then marketing, back to HR. So that was kind of a new experience for me and tiring. And this is one of the things now. When I mentor people that are CEOs or they want to open new companies, I make sure they are aware of that because it's exhausting. You need to be very structured. You need to know everything and be on top of everything. especially in a startup when you are a ceo in a big company you have people handling that but when you are in a startup it's your responsibility and you are pretty much involved on every aspect and all of us usually are good or at ease or our comfort zone is in one or two or three things in a business but not everything so if you're good in technology you probably hate finance if you're good in finance you probably hate marketing and sales right and so on. But being a CEO, you have to do everything, whether you like it or not, you have to be on top of everything.

00:09:47 NICK LALL
Yeah, I mean, I really appreciate that. First of all, the point that you made about wanting to sell to a larger logistics company so that the team could stay on and the company could stay more or less true to its mission. I think that's the point that is often missed when people talk about M &A, where people think that, oh, it's just a financial decision and they're going to sell for the highest amount possible. in reality that's really not the case i think a lot of business owners they do care about legacy and they do care about taking care of their business and their team and that's why they do look for buyer that is aligned with them in terms of where they would like to see the business go even if they're no longer with it and to your second point about a second mba i mean i think that being a small business ceo or being a startup ceo it is really one of the few positions where you truly use all that you learn in the mba and you have to really figure it out on your own and Definitely not easy, as you said, but clearly you've been successful at it. You've been a leader in a lot of different types of organizations, ones that were businesses that you started that were more, I guess, lifestyle type businesses. And then you're also CEOs of startups and then leaders in larger organizations. I was curious over the years, you clearly faced a lot of challenges. You've done well. You've had a tackled opportunity. I was curious. If you could describe your leadership style, what sets it apart, and if any challenges that you faced have shaped that leadership style?

00:11:10 VICTOR ABOURAHA
Well, my leadership style is an accumulation of all the years, of course. By being an employee myself, I used to look at, you know, the leaders I had and the managers I had, and they had an idea what I like, what I don't like. So definitely that's part of it. Another part that I cannot deny is INSEAD. In the Global Executive MBA, they have something very special. So you have the academic path, of course, but INSEAD, they have also this lovely leadership path. During the whole program, you have a parallel program of leadership where you are with mentors, where you are with the experts and with your peers, and you work on your leadership style and aspects. And you get, you know, real -time feedback in an open manner, in a safe space, which I believe it was great to have. Also, another part is the empathy and communication, which I feel that a lot of leaders, they lack. People think when I'm in a leadership position, I have the power. I impose things and I push things. And I'm a bulldozer and I don't care about the rest, which does a lot of damage. or even if that serves the business, but it does a lot of damage on people. As I told you in digital transformation, we care about people process and platform and in customer experience as a bigger umbrella where I am, we look at the customer experience, which means people, people are your clients, but also your internal clients and your employees. So empathy is something that I didn't have or didn't value. But over the year, I worked on that. I have to give also the credit to my wife who made me realize that. Because especially here, a little bit probably in the Arab world, it's a very tough environment, you know. But yes, empathy is something really important. So I listen to my team. I'm close to them, friends, but in a professional way. I think this is something part of it. my leadership style, if you want to call it like that. The other part would be different environments, as we spoke. In ADNOC, it was where I led critical but very challenging digital transformation initiatives with a lot of, what you call it, politics and culture and, you know, competing priorities. Of course, that added to my leadership, being a CEO of a startup. Without forgetting that in my younger years, I passed around 20 years as a Boy Scout and leader. I'm positive that that had also an impact on my leadership style because there I was a leader and you learn to work in groups, smaller groups, smaller community with the team members being a team player and all of that. So I think it's a combination. It's a combination. It's not something that you go and you get trained and then you have a certain leadership style. And it's very difficult to assess. You have to listen to people that works with you where they can give this feedback.

00:14:29 NICK LALL
Sure. Well, I mean, it seems like you're pretty good at reflecting and self -aware. And it's interesting that you mentioned the Boy Scouts. We've had a couple other guests who talked about playing sports when they're young and the impact that had on them. And I think. Being able to look at these childhood experiences and see what they've taught us is really powerful. And to your point on empathy, I mean, business is about people, it's employees, it's customers, it's suppliers, it's all just humans. And being able to empathize with them is how you do well in business, in my opinion. So really appreciate that viewpoint as well.

00:14:48 VICTOR ABOURAHA
on empathy,

00:14:59 NICK LALL
appreciate that viewpoint as well. Something that you did say, though, stood out to me a little bit, how you're saying in the Arab world, it's tough for us. Wondering if you could talk a little bit more about unique challenges to leadership within the Arab world. Now that I reflect on this,

00:15:01 VICTOR ABOURAHA
Something that you

00:15:12 VICTOR ABOURAHA
reflect on this, Nick, I think I was lucky enough to have those two experiences. One is the scouts here, and the second one is INSEAD, simply because I had a safe place to learn, do mistakes, and get honest feedback without affecting the business, where usually in business you don't get this type of feedback and you're probably cautious about everything you do and say. So probably those two things. they had an enormous effect on the development of my personality and the leadership stuff definitely i think that is great that that was that for you and it is one of the benefits from the mba is i think a lot of us we get so stuck in our careers and in our habits and there's not that time to reflect and be around a group of diverse people who are not directly competing with you or you know within your

00:15:47 NICK LALL
i think that is great that that was that for you and it is one of the benefits from the mba is i think a lot of us we get so stuck in our careers and in our habits and there's not that time to reflect and be around a group of diverse people who are not directly competing with you or you know within your industry necessarily and you get to be around them and grow so fast within that one year however long your program is so definitely can see the value in that as well and seems like you know you're someone who is learned a lot you've been very successful and you also now mentor other startups and so i was wondering if you could talk about first of all just how you help the startups that you work with and then maybe some

00:16:17 NICK LALL
like you know you're someone who is learned a lot you've been very successful and you also now mentor other startups and so i was wondering if you could talk about first of all just how you help the startups that you work with and then maybe some examples of how you have helped them overcome challenges that they may have overlooked or critical issues they were struggling with?

00:16:38 VICTOR ABOURAHA
So one example that usually occurs with founders, I mentor, is that they concentrate on their comfort zone. And this is usually what, by default, we all do unconsciously, right? And to give you an example, they go into a certain product or service, and they think that by having a fantastic idea, that's enough for me to have the business so for example i had someone into a health tech space i have another one that was into green transportation solution another one into logistics and everyone was kind of the same they think they have a good product they are very at ease to do one part of the business or to develop the idea and the service and they think that's enough and this is where usually we discuss that it's not only about innovation and the product but also that would guarantee the success but the whole aspect of the business and then we go into focusing into different places for example into the market fit the scalability the market penetration competition regulations fund cash flow so we try to tackle different aspects of the business that sometimes they overlook because this will come back and will affect them differently founders typically think finding funds or investments would be their main challenge i usually explain to them that finding money is probably the easiest thing which is weird but it is simply because if you have a good idea that is scalable and profitable even if it's not profitable now but it has the potential to be profitable. People with money, they will invest in you. It's a no -brainer. The trick for an investor is to look at different aspects, which are the risk, scalability, and these kind of things, and the market fit. Because if you think your idea is good, that doesn't mean the market thinks that you are good. If your idea is easy to imitate, competition will come with bigger money and faster, and will eat you up. So you need to think about all those aspects. And this is what we do usually in those kind of mentoring sessions to discuss and make sure that the founder or CEO, because they are too much involved in the business, they don't look at all of those aspects. So I help them to do that. Not to forget to take into consideration things like the risks, stress. the mental health of the person. So life balance usually is very important because it's very stressful. When you are an owner, the business is your life. So you don't have office hours. You can work 24 -7 and that will drain you fast. So they need to be conscious about that. This is where we discuss also with the solopreneurship to have co -founders, at least one, maximum two, not more. So they can help each other, they can encourage each other and kind of complete each other. As you know, you have also two types of startups. You have the scale -ups, those who want to scale and become big and all of that, the unicorn. And you have the other type, which is the lifestyle, where I want my startup to give me enough money to live in a decent way. And usually they don't consider both. We make sure that their target is clear where they want to be because the objectives and the investments and all of that will be related to whether they want to scale up or a lifestyle one. Therefore, during those mentoring sessions, we open up the discussion on all those dimensions that founders usually try to avoid because they want to stay in their comfort zone.

00:20:42 NICK LALL
Definitely. I think it's always very good to think about why you're doing what you're doing before you actually start doing it and what your actual goals are. Clearly, from years of experience, you are being very helpful for a lot of these young startup founders. I was wondering if you have thoughts on the biggest challenges of going from a corporate role, someone who's never been in the startup world, to becoming an entrepreneur, working for themselves. I mean, I think you might have answered it already, but just curious if you have any thoughts in general about what someone should prepare themselves for and why they... You mentioned that they should have one co -founder, maybe two, but not more than that. I would also want to follow up on that and hear your thoughts on why those numbers are the ones that you think are necessary.

00:21:28 VICTOR ABOURAHA
Let me start with that question first and then we'll move to the other one. Why more than one? Simply because if you are the business and something happens to you or you are no longer motivated or you decided to take another role, the whole startup will go, right? So if you are, I don't know, let's say a doctor and you found this, you want to create a certain app where you put yourself as a consultant inside of it and then suddenly you have another opportunity to do and you go, the whole business will go. So investors, they usually avoid investing in those startups or companies with one founder who is also the company. They usually prefer the two or if not the three. but not more, because when it's more, it becomes too complex to manage. Two or three is preferable, and it's always preferable to be complementary. So you have someone which is more into, let's say, sales. Another one is more into the technology as the CTO. So you have this balance, and they challenge each other than only one person with one idea. So this is my experience. I'm not a VC, but probably if you talk to those VCs, yeah. This is what I hear and this is my experience so far. They don't like the one person. They don't like the so many. They prefer two or three. So that's it. For your other question about transitioning from a corporate role to an entrepreneurship role, this is exciting and challenging, especially in a dynamic, fast evolving market here like in the GCC. Okay. My advice would be to focus on three key areas, the mindset, market, understanding, and resilience. First, the mindset, because you need to shift from being a specialist in a company where you're looking at your vertical, as I said, it's an organized company, to become a decision maker and a problem solver. So you need to have this mindset shift. in entrepreneurship you wear multiple hats as we discussed so you need to become aware and competent in all of them and therefore to embrace this transition and some uncertainty when you are an employee of a company you don't worry about the overall company aspects and the stability and all of that you would worry but it's not on on your shoulder when you are a CEO of startup or you are the entrepreneur you have all of this on your shoulder so the best way to test this is probably start taking initiative as an entrepreneur inside the company you are in and this is what I usually advise those people they come and they say okay we want to do this transition we're not sure and I say try to be an internal an intrapreneur instead an entrepreneur by taking initiatives try to build them or run them from a to z including all the aspects like the financial part the marketing part the selling it to different stakeholders inside the company so you need to test this fully and this is what i've done in all my previous roles including adnock where i i built this digital arm from scratch so it's good to test the waters and make sure you're okay with all the these challenges before you jump and leave your company and go into entrepreneurship especially if you are the main provider of the family right if you're not if you have some other income okay maybe you can you can jump and take the risks there is no problem but if you are the main provider you want to test the waters before you fully jump in because you're jumping as well your family with you into this journey and second is to understand the market and its nuances The GCC market is unique. The characteristic is that it's very rapid. You have rapid transformation. You have government -driven initiatives and a mix of traditional and emerging sectors. So you need to take your time to understand the market, to research, to build relationship within the ecosystem where you're going and to see how you can leverage. the opportunities that are happening, like the Vision 2030 in Saudi or the expo that happened in Dubai, and see where is really the opportunity there to have something sustainable, to see the technology that's happening, all of that. The third part is to build resilience. As you know, entrepreneurship is a roller coaster, like it's a roller coaster, right, where you have highs and lows. Everything tests your confidence and your temper and basically your resilience. So what I usually tell people to surround themselves with a strong network of mentors, peers and advisors that can always help, like offer them guidance and perspective and let them look at the big picture always rather than the small problem you have on hand that you worry about. and be prepared to iterate your ideas to fail fast and get up and move and learn from all those setbacks while keeping your vision aligned with your passion this is it usually the gcc is a fantastic place for entrepreneurship for entrepreneurs because we have all those resources funding infrastructure that are rapidly evolving the support of governments and all those accelerators that are in the region. So you just need to make sure that you can adapt. You focus on creating value all the time and never lose sight of why you're taking the sleep at the first place. And make sure you invest in your health because your health is you. And without your health, you will lose everything. So an entrepreneur needs to be very conscious about that. That yes, I don't have office time from let's say 9 to 5 or 9 to 6, but I need to be structured and I need to fit into my daily routine time for me to simply keep your sanity, right?

00:28:09 NICK LALL
For sure. Mental health is so very important and it's hard to remember to take care of it. We're an entrepreneur as I know myself as well. And I appreciate the last point you made about the GCC being such a great region for entrepreneurship right now. I mean, I think it only happens every so often in a place like China 15 years ago. I mean, to a much lesser extent, maybe in the tech ecosystem, places like Estonia or Israel or Singapore, but with a combination of capital geographic location. just forward -thinking governments. It really is a special place in the world to be right now if you are an entrepreneur. And I really like your big picture thinking. I think that was just a ton of great advice you gave to potential entrepreneurs. I'm not going to go into all of it. But what I would be curious about, though, is your own thinking about your own entrepreneurial decisions and why you decided to lead Narovate now. What was the opportunity that you saw that made you think that this is a company that is one that you would want to lead now in this region?

00:29:16 VICTOR ABOURAHA
It's not an easy question. So, as I said, things actually happened without the extra planning, if you want, because as I said, we had the exit of Box It For Me, where I decided not to stay as the CEO after the acquisition. So I handed over and was planning to leave. And this is where someone called me and said, we have this opportunity. in the water business for a new startup and it was i i hesitated at the beginning because i just went out from a startup i wasn't sure if i want to go back to another one the the difference here is that because it's a joint venture so i had the support of two huge companies the shareholders so yes i was building a new company but not from scratch so i had the support of things like legal finance and HR and all of that. Going into a new sector was exciting for me. As you said before, so some people, they are comfortable to be in one line of business for 20 years. For me, I switch industries, but I'm still in the digital transformation. So that's the constant. Whether it was the oil and gas or logistics or now water, I'm still into the... technology, digital transformation space and the startup kind of thing. And the opportunity was in Saudi while I was based in Dubai. That was also for me one of the reasons why I took the challenge because I said now the market is moving very rapidly in Saudi, especially with the Vision 2030, the new leadership. As you know, all the big projects now, everything is happening there. So I said, okay, let me be one of the first movers to go there, see what's happening and see if that market is for me. So it was the opportunity that came to me and I took it. So this is how I came about this role. Sure.

00:31:26 NICK LALL
Sometimes it's best just to take the opportunities that come to you. Speaking of Vision 2030, I was wondering if you just could share your thoughts on it, how it is helping. the startup ecosystem in the region and what transformations do you think will happen in Saudi and the region in general because of such an ambitious plan like Vision 2030?

00:31:47 VICTOR ABOURAHA
So the Vision 2030 of Saudi Arabia is reshaping the entrepreneurial ecosystem in an unprecedented way. And through my work at NeroVate, I've had the privilege to witness this transformation firsthand. So as you know, They are trying to move very fast. So you have this fast -paced kind of mindset now there to gain a lot of experience because they're new to this. So they are pushing diversity. It's a very vibrant culture. You have a lot of government -backed initiatives. You have accelerators, funding programs, innovation hubs, all of that. So it's really an exciting place to be. Saudi, I've read in an article before that because they want to expand, they identified three main issues. The first one was the infrastructure, including roads, traffic, all of that. The second one is housing. We're talking about availability and the quality of housing to attract all those expatriates and the water. So water is also one of the main challenges there. Digital transformation is a main pillar now in Saudi. Not just the buzzword, but they're putting it in practice. So you can see all the governmental bodies, companies there, they are getting into this journey. They are not as advanced as Dubai, if we want to compare, but they are moving at a faster pace. So Vision 2030 is after five years. So I think within 2030 and after that, we're going to see Saudi in a totally different place. and not in the cities only in the cities that we know now like Riyadh Dhammam, Jeddah and all of that but also you have all those new cities that are coming I'm sure you heard about NEOM, the Red Sea project and all of that it's very exciting there so you have a lot of opportunities for startups to transition or to build there into into multiple sectors you can see now a lot of Things happening in the focus of smart cities, AI, IoT solutions. I'm not just throwing buzzwords here, but you see them in practice there. This is the focus, right? They are looking at the future and they want to be one of the best places in technology to attract people and to diversify their revenue, not just from oil and gas. but to other sectors like entertainment, healthcare, education, all of that. So they have very big ambitions. I think it is the place to be now there. And that vision of 2030 is not just transforming Saudi Arabia. I believe it's creating a ripple effect on the region as well. The blend of ambition, resources, and talents is unlike anything I've seen before. And for entrepreneurs, the opportunities are unique and endless.

00:34:54 NICK LALL
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think Saudi's Vision 2030 is world famous now, but a lot of people don't know that actually a lot of the neighboring countries also have their own vision and plans that they've put in place for a similar timeline and mirroring similar goals. So definitely a really exciting place to be in the world right now, I think. Whether it's water or any other traditional industry, you're seeing that just the bleeding edge of tech is coming and trying to modernize these industries in this region. So I think it's one of the most exciting places to be in the world right now. And I'm sure the work that you're doing is really fulfilling and invigorating because of that.

00:35:38 VICTOR ABOURAHA
boost and expand like Dubai did it will have an effect on other regions other countries and now Saudi is leading and pushing so it will also have a bigger effect it's a healthy competition I think and especially the mindset and this brings one main aspect which is very important other than having the funds and ideas and technology because this is easy it's the the manpower you have the skills now around the world coming to Dubai. Look at yourself now. You are doing those series in Dubai and Saudi. So it brings the attention of VCs. It brings the attention of businesses. It brings the attention of the talents to come to the region, which we need for this Vision 2030 and for all the big plans that they have set here.

00:36:36 NICK LALL
Absolutely. Yeah, it's really amazing. I was wondering if there's anything else that you would like to talk about.

00:36:41 VICTOR ABOURAHA
What I can tell you is about us in Nerovate. So while we are not looking now to exit, of course, we are still in the early stage. We always have the focus on bringing sustainable solution to positively affect the environment, but also the economic part to be profitable and all of that. So I think nowadays lots of startups are doing that. So it's not about only the economic part or the profit. profitability. Of course, that's important. But you want to think about the impact you're doing. And that's why we look at things now a lot about sustainability, how to have a scalable solution that helps you to reduce costs, increase efficiency and collaboration, have more transparency and visibility on the business. I think everyone's kind of looking at that. And this will drive later on the other aspect of having investors or exiting all of that. I think you need to have your foundation set correctly and to manage between those two, the profitability and the sustainability part or the environment impact.

00:37:59 NICK LALL
Yeah, absolutely. I think especially if your goal is to sell on the international market these days, most investment firms will require that you are. in accordance with the esg regulations so your business of course is one that's you know water is basically an essential need especially in an arid region like the gulf and so you're making an impact no matter what but i think that is something that anyone running a business should be thinking about i mean people think okay yeah emerging markets places like africa you can get a good valuation and so on but if your goal is to sell you you do need to focus on making an impact and hopefully the goal is to make an impact regardless. But I think it's something that everyone who's running a business these days does need to think about.

00:38:36 VICTOR ABOURAHA
and hopefully the

00:38:41 NICK LALL
running a business these days does need to think about. But thank you so much for joining,

00:38:41 VICTOR ABOURAHA
running a

00:38:45 NICK LALL
you so much for joining, Victor.

00:38:48 VICTOR ABOURAHA
We at NeroVate, we approach this balance with the belief that social impact and profitability are not mutually exclusive, right? But can in fact reinforce each other when aligned strategically correctly. putting everything in your strategy to to deliver that absolutely yeah i agree i think doing business the right way should lead to profits and it's very refreshing to hear that that's your philosophy as well well yeah really enjoy this conversation for those listening that you may not know that my teammate had to bring an ipad into victor's office so it's been a little bit not traditional podcast but

00:39:08 NICK LALL
yeah i agree i think doing business the right way should lead to profits and it's very refreshing to hear that that's your philosophy as well well

00:39:21 NICK LALL
yeah really enjoy this conversation for those listening that you may not know that my teammate had to bring an ipad into victor's office so it's been a little bit not traditional podcast but Victor powered through, and I think we still had a lot of really interesting conversation. And so it was great to meet you, hope to meet you in person soon, but thanks so much for being on the podcast, Victor.

00:39:43 VICTOR ABOURAHA
The technology, right? Well, the digital solution. Thank you, Nick, for having me. And I hope the ideas I shared with you would benefit a lot of people and would be valuable. Thank you for reaching out. Sure.