T minus 20
The year is 2005... Anakin turns to the dark side, YouTube makes its debut and we’re all couch-jumping for Maria, McDreamy and The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo…
T minus 20, rewind to this week in history 20 years ago with Joe and Mel.
T minus 20
Cronulla Riots 20 years on, through the eyes of someone who lived it
Rewind to 11 December 2005 to 17 December 2005
🏖️ Cronulla hits boiling point
This week in 2005, Australia watches in shock as long-simmering tensions in Cronulla erupt into one of the country’s most confronting racial flashpoints. Years of beachside friction, talkback radio fury and mass-forwarded SMS hype collide on a scorching December Sunday as thousands gather at North Cronulla. What begins as a “community protest” flips into an alcohol-fuelled mob draped in flags, chanting slogans and attacking anyone who “looked wrong.” Police are overwhelmed, media crews are swarmed and by nightfall Sydney braces for retaliatory violence across multiple suburbs. Australia wakes up the next morning shaken, ashamed and suddenly questioning the myth of the laid-back, sun-kissed, everyone-gets-along Aussie beach culture.
❄️ Narnia brings the winter blockbuster magic
Amid the chaos of real life, cinemas deliver the exact opposite: snow, whimsy and one very dramatic lion. The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe continues its global domination, giving mid-2000s kids their own fantasy franchise to obsess over. Tilda Swinton reigns icy and ethereal, Mr Tumnus becomes an unexpected Tumblr boyfriend before Tumblr even exists and everyone leaves the cinema wanting to open every wardrobe in the house just in case. It’s the cosy, snowy escapism 2005 didn’t know it needed.
🎤 Bert Newton signs off and Australia loses its 9am dad
After 13 years of cooking chaos, advertorial mayhem and the nation’s most joyful backstage banter, Good Morning Australia wraps for the final time. Bert Newton farewells his TV kingdom with Belvedere by his side, Karen Moregold reading the stars and a studio full of people who absolutely know they’re witnessing the end of an era. It’s peak Aussie comfort TV — messy, warm and utterly unrepeatable — and its departure leaves a beige 9am-shaped hole in the national routine.
Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.
Transcript is generated automatically.
The year is 2005. Anakin turns to the dark side. YouTube debuts and we couch jump for Mariah, McDreamy and a girl with a dragon tattoo. T-minus 20. Rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel. Week of 11 December 2005.
T-minus 20. Hey, what do you think this is a talk show?
T-minus 20. It's an icebreaker, don't judge me yet. This is bananas. The power you will come home. My question is, who approved that ****?
Do you see where this is going?
Not really.
20. Hey, welcome to T-minus 20, the podcast that grabs an energy drink, fires up the time machine, and rockets you back exactly 20 years to revisit the news, pop culture, music, technology scandals, and extremely questionable fashion choices that shaped our mid-2000s brains. If it happened that week in 2005, we're unpacking it with nostalgia, sass, and the kind of chaotic energy that only comes from remembering life before the iPhone, or BIP, BIP for short. With your hosts, Joe and Mel. Hello, Mel.
I saw an ad launching the iPhone the other day. I think that's a few T-minus 20 years away. But the way that they were talking about it, it's just crazy to think about now. And the big selling point was like, you know, it's now your iPod.
Yeah, I've seen people launch iPhones in frustration and I'm like, that's $2,000 you've just thrown against the wall there.
We are rewinding to 11 to 17 December. I believe the last show for the year actually.
Is our last show.
Yes, there'll be summer programming.
Yes, December 2005, nearby Cronulla Beach exploded onto newspapers around the world, courtesy of a shameful exchange between the local surf community and Sydney's Lebanese community.
Oh, this is a big one. 20 years on from the Cronulla race riots. I remember it very, very well. I can't believe it's been 20 years. We are going to unpack that in full with a very special guest who was actually there.
Is a prophecy that two sons of Adam and two daughters of Eve will appear to defeat the White Witch.
Just to be clear, the White Witch has nothing to do with the Cronulla riots. We're talking about the Chronicles of Narnia. That's right. The lion, the witch and the wardrobe, in fact.
Yeah.
Keep it going, I haven't prepared anything. This is the moment now, I guess you don't look forward to it, of course you don't. When we do say goodbye to you on Good Morning Australia.
Very sad moment in Australian television. The final episode of GMA, Good Morning Australia with Bert.
I know. What were we going to do on our sick days? Yeah, I know, right? That was just the ultimate sickie watching show, Good Morning Australia with Bert.
Fabulous.
We'll talk about those stories and more. Today, tonight, tomorrow, whenever you choose to listen to T-minus 20. But speaking of, well, no, I haven't actually got anything to actually segue into this, but it's just about getting old. Speaking of things. We always, just speaking of things, speaking of getting old, I am starting to, now that sort of our son is a little bit older and things are a bit settled on the home front, starting to branch out and go to concerts a lot more, which is something that I used to do back in the day. I went to thousands, literally thousands of concerts, and it's been so nice recently to get back on the horse again. We recently went to the big Metallica concert, and we're still refinancing the mortgage to make sure we can afford to go to anything really, or even eat for that matter after that. was wonderful. That was wonderful. And that was a big one to enjoy with the family. But I recently went to one by myself, which was a sideshow for the Good Things Festival, where a band that I have been trying to see for years and years and years and years, and just every single time they have come to the country, something bad has happened or something has stood in the way of me going to see them. And I bought tickets for this band very recently. And it was a Wednesday night show.
The school night.
A Wednesday night show in Canberra as a sideshow for the Good Things Festival. And I was like, my God, I need to go to this. I need to go to this because it's an international band. And if we don't support it, we're just not going to get any more of these things.
We don't get a lot of them here in Canberra anymore, do we?
Not anymore, but we used to. Oh my God, we used to have so so many big shows. I've seen Marilyn Manson at the Royal Theatre. I've seen the Sex Pistols at the Royal Theatre. I've seen Kylie Minogue. I saw ACDC here. Pantera, Biohazard, She Had. I've seen so many big shows. Pink, Blink-182, Craig David, Incubus.
I think Usher even came once.
The list goes on and on. We used to have big artists. You saw Ashanti and Ja Rune?
Ashanti. Yes, that's right.
We used to get all of them. It used to be this lovely stopover between Sydney and Melbourne while they're on tours, but I think as tours have become more expensive and it's become more expensive to bring bands to the country, it's almost not in their best interest to put a show on unless it sells out, right? And that's probably what Wednesday night was as well. So Machine Head are here for the Good Things Festival, and they're doing a few sideshows as well, which is wonderful. So they did a sideshow at the University of Canberra Refectory on the Wednesday night. On A Wednesday night. And once again, we had a few things happening in life and work and all of that stuff. And I nearly didn't make it again. But thanks to my very supportive co-host and wife, Mel, you pushed me out the door and you made me go. And I cannot thank you enough for that because it was truly wonderful. It was one of the best concerts I've ever been to. And the reason being was because it was very, it was so intimate. I felt really privileged to see a band that I've kind of only contextually seen on festival stages. play in a small venue to what I reckon was probably only between 3 and 500 people. It was extraordinarily small.
It's quite an intimate space as well.
Yes.
Like we saw Killswitch engaged there and the same deal. Like you felt like you were right up against them pretty much.
Well, we kind of were.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah. And so we were not like at an Usher concert where if you were right up against them, you'd end up probably pregnant or something. But like, so I was like, oh, you know, I'll line up and get some merch and stuff. And Machine Head didn't have any support acts or anything. So the venue was dead silent and then all of a sudden they were up on the stage playing and it was like, holy **** this is amazing. And the first thing that I noticed was the abundance of mobile phones that come out at gigs all the time now, which is, and I kind of get it and I kind of don't. Like I like to take a little souvenir, maybe 20 second video clip and a couple of little photos throughout the course of the night, but I generally try and keep my phone in my pocket because I want to be in the moment and enjoy the show. And I feel like when you put that phone up, you break that circle of energy that exists between you and the band performing on the stage. And Machine Head handled this really well. If they saw people with their phones held up in the air, they would just stare at them. Really? They would look straight down the barrel.
And there's no hiding in the small venue either, is there?
Well, and I'll get to that as well until they put their phone away. But when you say there's no hiding in the venue, that's very true. And I was like, I have heaps of room to move here. There's circle pits going, they did walls of death and all these crazy mosh things. But I was able to walk quite freely to the front of the stage and lean up on the barricade, which I have not done for years and years and years. I think I'm talking like a big day out in the 90s was the last time I did that, like the offspring or something like that. And so I'm leaning against the barricade and I very quickly discovered there is nowhere to hide. There is nowhere to hide. And the bass player for the majority of the night is right in front of me. Jared, the bass player is there. And then Rob, the singer would come over.
Did you make eye contact?
Yes, on many an occasion. occasion, which is also wonderful and confronting, but it's like, I don't know what to do to show my appreciation here. And they tell you what to do. Machine head are very prescriptive. So they're like, headbang, motherf***ers. And I'm like, okay.
Sure thing, whatever you say, sir.
I hear you and I'm complying and I'm doing that. But what machine head need to understand is I'm 50 years old now. And when I lean up against the barricade and headbang too hard, I get pins and needles in my hands, which means that I've done something really f**king terrible to my neck at one of the thousands of concerts I've been to. And I probably can't do that anymore. So I need to make a few adjustments.
You need some Danker up.
Indeed. I need more than Danker. I'm thinking like a cortisone shot to the spine or even a spinal transplant would be wonderful. Would be wonderful. And I'm thinking about, you know, what sort of adjustments do you make? And I started to really pay attention to that. And a lot of the artists that we're following at the moment or that we've been fans of are also making these adjustments with their performances. I mean, none would have been more so than seeing Ozzy Osbourne before he passed away at the Back to the Beginning concert, like he was unable to walk, so he did the whole thing from a chair. So when we went and saw Metallica, like Lars cops so much criticism all the time for being, you know, a bit gassed on the drum kit or being like out of time or things like that. And there's a whole bunch of clips online of him sort of fluffing some of his drum parts, which I think is a little bit unfair and cruel, you know, but people will grab on to the most negative things and obviously bring them right in front of your face in order to elevate themselves. That's the kind of world we live in socially these days. But I even noticed the adjustments when we saw Metallica. Now, remember we saw Metallica over a decade ago.
He had an economic drum kit, did he, a sit-stand drum kit or something?
Look, almost, but like they, remember we saw them, I think it was around 2010 or 13, it was one of those times and they kind of phoned it and it wasn't a great performance. And I was really dubious because the tickets were so expensive this time. We went and saw them and it was a wonderful performance, but they really lent into that big arena show kind of context where there were huge set pieces of production in between the songs and there was a lot of breaks. And they played that. I mean, because when you're pushing 60 years old and you're playing thrash metal, like balls to the wall, thrash metal, you need to catch your breath a little bit. And they allowed for that. And they allowed for that by dazzling us with all these wonderful special effects. And I don't think I think it was a distraction because when they actually came to come back on stage and play during these things, like I would say that there was probably 3 to 5 minute gaps between some of those songs. And it was still entertaining throughout. And when they came back on stage, they'd had enough of a breather. They'd had enough recovery time, which is what they teach you when you're going to do the fitness stuff, right? The recovery time is everything. So they had recovered. And as a consequence, the quality of the next part of the performance had improved immensely. And it was just those minor adjustments. It's very hard to make those minor adjustments on the fly when you've got the bass player for a machine head 4 feet away from you staring you directly and you're like going headbang ************ and it's like dude you're I've got like because he's a young guy I'm an old guy and I don't think he understands about making the adjustments but you could have a chat to Rob the guy on stage next to you who's probably a little bit older than us and he's made a few adjustments as well so when he headbangs he goes from side to side instead of up and down now.
Oh okay.
Which is interesting.
Is that better for your neck is it?
Well I guess so and I've seen quite a few. Tom Araya from Slayer can no longer headbang at all. He just has to stand there because he's just a.
Must be a sad day as a metalhead when you can no longer headbang. It's like, that's your thing. That must be really distressing when that day comes.
I think the most distressing part about it is that for years and years and years as a kid, my parents were watching this stuff and they're like, oh, that headbanging, that's you're going to break your neck. And I'm like, it. And it's with breakneck speed that we hurtle towards the final episode. But first, the Hatches, Matches and Dispatches clue. A celebrity that passed away, not only passed away, I'll give you a bit of a hint. A celebrity that was executed this time, executed this time 20 years ago that said this.
Working together, we can put an end to this cycle that creates deep pain in the hearts of our mothers, our fathers, and our people who have lost loved ones to this senseless violence.
That's right. That's right. It's a story of redemption, but at the same time, it's kind of sad. You don't know who this is, do you?
I just scrolled to the end.
Oh, you spoiler alert.
The spreadsheet, so now I know. I would not have guessed that.
No, well, for everybody else.
Who doesn't have a spreadsheet?
Who doesn't have a, I mean, who wants a spreadsheet? We'll find out at the end.
Starting with the 11th of December, probably a little bit before the 11th of December, but what culminates in the Cronulla riots on the 11th of December, and we will have someone who was there talking to us in just a moment, but maybe we start with a bit of an overview and a bit of a timeline of what went down this time 20 years ago. So there are reports of tensions on Cronulla Beach for quite a while.
That's right, yes.
A bit of, you have people coming in because it's at the end of a train line. And so it's not just, it doesn't just service the people that live in Cronulla. There are a lot of people that come in from the western suburbs on the train to go to the beach. And there were talks about Escalating tensions on the beach.
Yes, between gangs of youths, mainly young males, and members of, I guess, the Cronulla Surf Club.
The general public as well. And we get to the 4th of December, 2005, and three off-duty lifesavers get into a physical altercation with a group of young men. One of the men's up quite injured. Police take down the details, but nothing really sort of screams, oh, this is going to be something. It didn't seem that full on at that point. However, a few days later, the story starts to get momentum and people start talking about it. And then it makes its way into the media. In particular, talk back radio. And a lot of discussions around, well, it turns into something around race and discussions around race and racial tensions at Cronulla Beach And a lot of inflammatory remarks, as you'd expect from talkback radio, a lot of people calling in with views, and it becomes a discussion around.
Yes, and like a lot of **** it really starts to roll downhill and gain momentum.
It does. And then we get to the 11th of December. So there's talk of this big text message that gets circulated to hundreds of thousands of local residents around, you know, we're going to come together and we're going to take back the beach. We're going to have a bit of a protest. And we're going to, we're going to, lay down the law. This is our beach.
Yeah.
We're sick of this.
Yeah. We're a display of unity saying that we're not going to tolerate any antisocial behaviour on our beach, which, I mean, for all intents and purposes, sounds like very well intended.
Until it's not.
Until it's not, yes.
And we end up with what becomes the Cronulla riots on the 11th of December. Starts out as what they were saying was a peaceful show of unity into mass chaos, riots, injuries, police, destruction of property.
Arrests, lots of arrests.
Yep.
Lots and lots of media attention, not only in Australia, but from around the world. We've said a bit about it, but it's hard to really put into words what it was like unless you were actually there. And we're very fortunate in that one of our day one followers of the podcast, our very good friend Ray, was living in Cronulla at the time. And we've got him on the line.
G'day, Ray. G'day, Joe. G'day, Mel. Hello. How you guys going?
Yeah, we're good. Look, thanks for taking the time to talk about this. I know it's something that you're particularly passionate about having lived in the Shire and lived in Cronulla at that time. Now, what, I guess, what was it like just in general living there at the time?
Well, I think this is where, what we need to look at when we're talking about the actual riots is you've got to sort of go back 12 months prior to that.
Right.
Because down along the front of Cronulla, it's a very popular spot down the beachfront, and it's quite popular with people. People come from all over the Sydney, they don't just come from the actual shire. People travel from all over the place to get there.
Yeah.
But prior to the actual riots, probably going back 12 months, there was a large group of guys. young male men in their 20s, early 30s, I'd say, were hanging around, behaving in anti-social behaviour. So are you talking about?
Just hanging around the beaches there? Is that?
Yes, yeah. And in particular, out the front of Northies, across the road from the Northies nightclub, which became infamous when Todd Carney did his little bubbler trick.
Trust you to know that. Yeah.
But across the road from that is this park and it's nicknamed Stonehenge because it's got all these big rocks around it. But these guys used to hang around there and they'd hang around the beachfront and they just behave in antisocial behaviour and they'd intimidate any females that were walking past. And they got into a couple of scuffles where they'd actually beat people up. and the police weren't really reacting to it. And then it all came to a head when they beat up a off-duty lifesaver, one of the surf lifesavers, one of the surf lifesavers. And that was when all the community sort of went, look, enough's enough. And the initial protest had nothing to do with race at all. What the protest was about was the lack of police reaction to these anti-social groups that were down there causing trouble.
Yeah. And at this stage, when you say, when you say anti-social groups, I mean, race hadn't really entered the discussion at all at this stage. Am I right? Or was there a perception? Were, okay, or were the people perpetuating the anti-social behaviour a quote unquote Lebanese gang?
Well, they were of Middle Eastern appearance, so I couldn't really say. And, but that wasn't what the community was upset about. The community was upset at the fact that the police weren't doing anything to control these guys. So, and that's what the initial protest was about. It was just a group of locals that has had enough and the surf club and everything, they've just had enough that the police weren't reacting to this behaviour that was happening down there.
So it's been going on for about a year at this stage. And then the off-duty lifesavers, that was around the 4th of December 2005, I think.
Wifey and I had even been subjected to it. Yeah, right. We had walked past there one day and a young boy, he probably would have been really early teenager, might have even been pre-teens. He approached us, he stopped us as we're walking. And he said to me, he goes, I'll give me your hat. And I was like, and I was like, what? And he was like, give me, give me your hat. So, and I said, what, do you want my hat for? And he said, give it to me. And I said, no, I'm not giving you my hat. And I laughed. And then I said to Mel, I was like, what was that about? Was he, was he, look, I thought he might have wanted to show me a trick or I don't know, because he was so young. Yeah. And then, and then I said. Was he actually trying to roll me for my hat? And then we sort of had a giggle and thought, nah, surely not. We turned around, sure enough, he's gone up to another kid, a younger kid, more his age, and taken this other kid's hat. And I've thought, oh, hang on, this ain't on. We can't like, we can't let this. And I turned around and then I realized, He was basically a patsy for a group of older guys. And there was this big group, there's a group of about 6 or 10 of them all sitting on the wall. And it was obviously a setup. They're sending this young guy up to go and hassle people. And they were just using that as an excuse to then come in and start throwing punches if anyone tried to go back against him.
Yep.
So, and so everybody, all the locals, all knew this had been going on, this sort of stuff had been going on for a while. But yeah, the police just weren't reacting.
And so it started out as, I guess, a community protest in response to nothing being done and these growing tensions and just this disorderly conduct and behaviour. But obviously what was reported through the media was the text message that went out to hundreds of thousands of people. Did you get the text message?
No. And none of my friends, no one that I know that lived in the Shire, none of us, none of us had received this text message.
Isn't that interesting?
Yeah.
All of my family, all of my family lived in the Shire at the time. And all of our friends, people we went to school with, not a single person I know received the text message. No one.
That's extraordinary. So, you're there. You've been subjected to this. You've seen these young men hunting in packs carrying on like idiots. There's been a surf lifesaver bashed. There's been this alleged text message. And I mean, you know, you've got to put it in perspective, like Ray's family's quite large. He's got lots of friends down there. He's pretty well known in the Shire. Ray, he gets out and about. He's a bit of a character. And nobody you know, Ray knows everyone, right? Yes. Nobody you know, nobody you know got that text message.
No, not a single person.
So did you hear about the text message at all or?
Only through the media.
Isn't that interesting?
It was the, and this is what I've always said, that the real villains that day were your talkback radio hosts. They were the ones that perpetuated the whole race aspect. No one else had talked about the race before that. Before the conversation was all around the police not doing anything about these antisocial groups.
Right, So they've controlled, they've shifted that narrative to put it in, to turn it into more of a racial issue. I've got some, I actually got some grabs from the time from Alan Jones and I'll start by when you listen to this and you hear it, it's actually quite shocking in the context of today. Here's some of the stuff that happened on Alan Jones's program during the lead up to the riots.
What kind of grubs? Well, I'll tell you what kind of grubs this lot were. This lot were Middle Eastern grubs. There we go. You're not allowed to say it, but I'm saying it. If the police can't do the job, the next tier is us. Yeah, good on you, John. Now, you know, my grandfather was an old digger, and he used to say to him when we were growing up, Listen, shoot one, the wrestle won. We sat down on a picnic blanket and they kept picking footballs. Well, Australia is for all Australians, isn't it? And there's a standard that has to apply, and if you don't meet that standard, you should be rounded up. And if we don't have enough police, what's wrong with getting the army in? Get these folks a bit of a rifle, but in the face, and they'll back off. They're cowards. Well, if it gets to that, we might have to do that. Do you follow what I'm saying? Get out to work, Alan. I've got 2 blooming jobs. What sort of a mug am I? I'm going out to pay the doll for these people who want to **** ** up. That's correct. Excellent point, Amit. Many people feel that way, Yvonne. Thank you for ringing. John has a good answer. He says, It seems the police and the council are impotent here. All rhetoric, no action. My suggestion is to invite one of the biker gangs to be present in numbers at Cronulla railway station when these Lebanese thugs arrive. It'll be worth the price of admission to watch these cowards scurry back onto the train for the return trip to their lairs. Australians old and new. You shouldn't have to put up with this scum. Peters of Kensington's range of gift campers are designed to contain useful goodies. Oh, there's a stack of them, aren't they? Peters of Kensington.
Remember that? Peters of Kensington.
Yeah.
I don't know that they'd like to appear within that segment. It's like.
Let's inside a little bit of racial division and then we'll go and do some shopping at Peters of Kensington. Thank you very much.
Maybe they could have attacked us with envelope openers or something.
This hatred. brought to you by Valvoline. Look, I mean, it's just crazy. So, but you can hear how Jones doesn't actually say anything himself. He kind of gets his listeners to do it. He does it all through his listeners.
But you got to look at his audience, you know, it's the lowest common denominator. And for him just to go, all right, okay, so these people are of ethnic background, it's pretty low hanging fruit. Let's just get some ratings.
Yeah, and the ratings is right. And he was the number one guy at the time on radio in Sydney. So you can say a lot lowest common denominator, but he's got a big catchment area and there's lots of people listening to that and reacting to it that aren't even from where you're from, right?
And so this is another thing. If you have a look at all the police reports, you have a look at all the people that were charged with a fray, None of them were from the Shire.
Is that right?
They had all come from there, a lot had come from the western Sydney, from like Campbelltown out that way, and a lot had come from over at the eastern suburbs, over at like Maroubra and that sort of stuff. So a lot of the people that had caused all the afraid and the issues had travelled there from outside of the Shire. They weren't even people from the Shire.
Yeah. So with that in mind, did you have any ideas? how big this was going to get and how it might play out.
Only because the week leading up to it, there was so much stuff on the news and everybody was talking about it. And the news was even talking about these race riots that were about to happen. So we, on the day, we were like, we are not going anywhere near the beach. We're staying home. We're not going down there. But We just saw carload after carload, people walking along the streets, carrying cases of beer, wearing Australian flags. It was like a massive big Australia Day celebration. Yeah, And the curiosity got too much. And we're like, we've got to go have a look. We've got to go have a look and see what's happening. And we even took my nephew who was only a toddler at the time.
Jesus.
And that's what people say. I always say they're just. It wasn't really. When you were down there, it wasn't really that dangerous. There was, yes, you see the footage of the guys getting into fights and getting beaten up and that, but there's also stories to go along with a lot of those as well.
Yeah.
The one that I was most affected by was that, they show you the footage, there's a car that pulls up.
Yeah.
And then everyone starts throwing stuff at the car and they're all attacking the car.
Yeah.
But what they failed to report was that the people in that car had come down and started antagonizing the mob.
Really.
The people in the car were yelling out and calling the mob names, derogatory names and stuff. And that's why the mob turned on them. I don't condone the mob's mentality when they, like, cause they did, there was a few people that got badly hurt and I don't condone that at all. But I think the whole thing could have been avoided. if the media hadn't started this whole race thing, because it really wasn't a race thing to start with.
Yeah. And I think for us, what we saw on the TV was just vision of people draped in flags, drinking, shouting out, Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, oi, oi, oi, and then some really racist taunts as well. But you said you went down there with a child. What were you actually seeing and hearing when you were down there?
It was, it was honestly, it was like Australia Day. Everyone was drinking, everyone's just drinking in the park and in the street. And it was like, and everyone's, and people, you had all that Aussie, Aussie, Aussie and all that sort of garbage. But it was, it was really, it wasn't like for us, what we witnessed, that we didn't witness any of the hostility. So we didn't see the guys getting bashed at Northeast. We just saw the party atmosphere that was happening up on the wall.
Yep. Now that's not to say that none of that stuff happened, right? Okay.
That's right, you know.
But, you know, the stuff that you're witnessing doesn't really make for good ratings on the 6 o'clock news, right? So what we get flooded with the day of the riots is the stuff that you're talking about. People draped in Australian flags, a lot of anti-social behaviour towards people of Middle Eastern And then so the news cycle comes full circle at the end of the day and we see all of that stuff. What happened in the week afterwards? Like, because I hear about all the revenge attacks and things like that. So what was the feeling in the community? What was the aftermath?
I'm glad you brought it up because the revenge attacks the next night, It felt like a war zone.
Wow.
We, all of us, we were all told by police everything. We all had our lights turned off.
Yeah.
Police told you to do that.
In your house, in your apartment.
Yeah. They had, the police had blocked the main roads off. They'd blocked them from Caringbah and Woolaware and everything. They'd blocked all the main roads because there was gangs of Middle Eastern people coming from the western suburbs, coming down to Cronulla. to fight back. They went through the main mall with bats. They smashed up all the shops. There was people, there was people who were hospitalized because they got beaten up like badly. And but the media didn't cover any of it.
Yeah, wow.
You don't hear anything about it. We were on our veranda and you guys might probably remember our place. Yeah, And we were on the veranda and all the lights were out and there's police choppers flying overhead with spotlights on all night. my God. Searching. And it really did feel like something really heavy was happening. You were like this, there was, it was terrifying. And then you could hear, you could hear sirens all night long. You could hear sirens. You could hear banging. And it was, and you were like, what was that? Was that, what was that? You know, it was, it was, and they actually sent us home. from work early the next day, because we'd heard there'd been stories that there was going to be these retaliation attacks. So work let all the people that lived in the Shire go home early. They let all the people that lived at Cronine go home early. To board up their houses.
It's like as if a natural disaster is coming. Isn't that unbelievable?
How long did the retaliation go for?
It was only really a day. It was only really like the next sort of day that it went on because then I think they realized the police still had a heavy presence for the next week. But I think it was the, it was just the next day that was really brutal and scary.
Yeah.
But it was just, but it was just such a shame that the news didn't cover that side of it.
Yeah, look, and I think that, I mean, I'm not saying in the media's defence, because I think in hindsight, they've sort of, well, have they, I don't think they've learned a damn thing, actually, really. But there has been some reporting about those revenge attacks after the fact. And there's, I mean, this is kind of, this is again from the ABC where they've got that angle from the sort of the I get it the guys that so because a lot of these guys were from the western suburbs like Punchbowl and stuff and they would come into Cronulla to go to the beach because that beach basically serviced the western suburbs right Because of the train lines.
That's right.
Yeah. So this is their side of it.
Everyone started talking to each other, sending SMS, like, you know, men just get involved because look, there's 5,000 of them against three of them. Like it's unfair. So everyone got together. and start talking, then I'll just start to fight, and I'll start a war. Yeah, we go to Punchba Park, made up, and have a talk and chat, like what we're going to do, sort of things, and we go down. Ali says there were around 100 people there and that he saw no police. At around 9pm, he left and joined a convoy of more than 40 cars headed for the beaches. No, yeah, we drove down there and... Why? To get revenge.
They had to respond. If you don't respond to that situation, what's going to happen is that your actual, your mom, your sisters and all that, they're going to be scared to walk in the street. Because if they're going to walk in the street and then there's no one there to protect them, they're going to be scared. So you have to react to that situation. I don't know, I'm not saying it's correct that I did. I'm against innocent people getting hit and all that, but you can't just sit there and just take it. I mean, you've got to respond to that situation.
So when you hear that and they're talking about protecting their mothers and their sisters, it's the same conversation that was happening on the flip side earlier around people being taunted by this mob and this group and having to do something about it. So they're actually having the same argument from from both sides, which is quite interesting.
But I think it was a bit different in the fact that the initial group were talking about the lack of police presence there. But then what that guy just said then, he actually said the same thing, that there was no police. And this is one of the things. So you heard about how... with the train station, they all went to the train station. Because a group of guys from the western suburbs were coming down to Cronulla to get revenge, to try and fight in the fights as well. But police had removed them from the train at Woolaware, the station before. So the police said to them, look, you're not going down there because it's just going to inflame things. And they took them off the train at Woolaware. But because But because the police were so severely outnumbered when they got there, and this was the thing afterwards, everyone that you saw in the Shia, all the people that we knew that lived there and everything, everyone had stories about what they'd witnessed and what they'd experienced there. And I was at the club one night and I was talking to a guy And he was ruined by the whole thing.
Yeah.
Because he was at the train station waiting to go to work, right? He had nothing to do with what was going on, but he was a big guy. He was a really big, like six foot, really big guy. And he said he was just waiting for his train. And when the train pulled in, the police asked him, they said, mate, can you do us a favor? can you just stand in the stairwell and block it, stop all these people from coming up the stairs? Because the police were outnumbered. So they asked this guy to do him a favor. So he just sort of, well, the police have asked me to do it. So he goes, I just stood in the stairwell to block it. And someone took a photo of him.
Yeah, right.
And he ended up on the front of the paper. Oh, no. And he said, He said he had nothing to do with it. He was following the police direction. And then someone took a photo of him and got through to the media. And he said, because it did look bad because he had his arms out holding the rails, stopping people from getting past him. And there was like a mob of people behind him trying to get past him. And I think I'm pretty sure he said he lost his job or if he didn't lose his job, he had big fights with his boss because he got called into the office like, what's this all about?
But also his own safety as well. Like that sounds really dangerous.
So it was a big issue was with the police just not policing. That's my, and that's my opinion.
Yeah, of course. And that's all we can take it as is it's just, this is obviously just one person's opinion, but there are, this is the whole thing with this story. There's thousands of stories just like yours, Ray, that have sort of a different perspective. But what I find is they all have that similar thing in common where it's like there is no police presence. people are behaving in an anti-social fashion on both sides and they're fed up and it's all just come to a head.
Yeah, it had it been the guys that were down there, the groups of guys that had been down there previously to it, that it started all the tension. I think they could have just as easily had long hair and Ozzy Osbourne tattoos, And then Alan Jones and that would have been blaming heavy metal for it.
Yeah, of course.
It was just, they just went for the low hanging fruit.
They went, yes. Yeah, well, that's it. It's like, it's, you know, it's, you got to understand too, like Sydney Radio, they're in a constant rating cycle. It's all about being #1 at whatever cost. And the cost this time was a very human cost. And it was the cost of, I guess, the integrity of a couple of communities as well. It's just a It's a horrible story. Mate, what do you think? What do you think about it all 20 years on? Do you think we've learned anything from it?
I think so. Because if you go down to Cronulla, if you go down to the Shire these days, the demographic has shifted. It used to be, back when we were growing up, it was very primarily Anglo background people. Whereas that's completely changed now. You walk around the shopping centres there and it's just a cultural what's the term?
Melting pot. A cultural melting pot, mate.
It's a cultural melting pot. You walk around there now and it's like anywhere. It's just, so I don't think the people that were hoping to do ethnic cleansing, they failed. You know, it's like, you know what, guys, you failed. It didn't work for you. So suck it up. Yeah, cool.
So there's no problem. If you're down in Cronulla and it's like 3 o'clock in the morning and you've had a big night at Northies, you can still go and get a kebab.
Yeah, and you know what? If you went back to when I was a teenager, you wouldn't want to be down there at 3 o'clock in the morning.
Yeah.
Because, and it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be ethnic based violence you'd be afraid of. And it'd be the subcultures, the aggressive football and surf cultures that used to exist down there then.
And alcohol, right? Alcohol would be a massive factor in it as well. I mean, alcohol was a big factor on the day, I think as well. You don't get those great images without plying a few people with alcohol and setting them loose on the community, really, do you? It's just a great shame. And I think 20 years later, it's still a massive shame.
And one of the things that really hurt afterwards, and this is why, and I think this is why I get so passionate about that whole situation, was it was like, as soon as people found out that you lived at Cronulla, you were just blacklisted. People would just go, you're a racist, you're a racist. And they'd call you a racist. As soon as they found out where you lived, you were having to defend yourself.
Yeah.
And if ever you tried, whenever I would try to talk about my experience down there, I'd get shut down. And I'd cop the whole white privilege and all this sort of stuff. And I'd be like, man. Okay.
I'm just a working class dude from the Shire. I get it, you know, trying to start a family, trying to make ends meet just like anyone else. I mean, and that's the thing, like, I mean, even your Middle Eastern friends from the western suburbs, I mean, they're the same. They're just trying to etch out a living in Sydney. It's a, like, it's a tough place to get ahead in, you know?
As you guys know, I've moved, I moved out of the Shire a few years ago. And No looking back. Yeah, right. They opened, when they opened up the big Westfield shopping centre there, they did a big reno and they started putting in all these really high-end shops. And we were talking about it, thinking, man, this is the Shire. Those shops aren't going to last here, you know? And it was the opposite that they did. price of everything just went up and it just became unaffordable. It became unaffordable. So a lot of people who were born and bred in there were basically being pushed out because they couldn't afford the new lifestyle there.
So they were pushed out more from a socio-economic perspective as opposed to, you know.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah, Definitely.
That's what it was. It was like, that's why we moved. We thought we can't afford the linear anymore.
Yeah, cool, I mean, what else can we say?
I don't know, it was a, I think it was a bit of a blight on, society, like on Australian culture at the time.
When you look at it now, when you look at it now, Ray, and you look at how things happen on social media and stuff like that, do you think that was almost a foretelling of the way people grab information, react, overreact, and then have these responses that don't sort of, you know, suit the crime, I guess?
Especially when you look at all these right-wing rallies and that they're having these days, where they're all wearing their Australian flags and all that stuff. And I just find that shameful. I see people doing all that and thinking, you're not doing, you're doing a disservice to your country. You're not like, yeah, I just find it repulsive when I see people doing that stuff. I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to hang out with you guys. I'm not going to go do that.
Yeah, it's a bit of a shame. It feels like, in some respects, when we reflect on it, we've kind of learned a lot and come a long way. And then you turn around and you see that stuff and it's like, we haven't learned a ******* thing.
No, that's right.
Yeah.
That's right. And it's, yeah.
People are weird. They are. They are weird. Well, yes. Anyway, look, mate, that's been really awesome. I'm actually very glad that you've taken time out of your busy day to just sort of sit down and talk to us about that. I think it is good to hear it from someone who's been there because there's going to be so much stuff in the news sort of this week, 20 years on from the Cronulla riots. And if anything, I'm concerned actually.
Well, they'll be rehashing the old footage from 20 years ago. which will just perpetuate what was reported back then and not necessarily the full story.
And all of these right-wing f**kwits that you're talking about, they're going to grab onto that and use it to suit their own agenda and their own narrative all over again. So my hope is that more people get to hear stories from people like you who were there who actually know the truth. It was more about resourcing. It was about police presence. It was about making people feel safe in their own backyard.
Yep, it really was. And even the surf clubs and that, even in response to it all, were reaching out to Middle Eastern communities and telling them to come down and putting them through swim training and trying to increase their presence because they come out of it looking bad, like the surf life saves, because they were the ones that were starting the protest to start with. But it was, like I already said, it had nothing to do with race. It was all about the fact that the police presence, the police weren't doing anything about the antisocial groups. But it was all just blown out. But people need someone to hate on, you know, they need to say. And that's what happened. Cronulla and the Shire became the scapegoat. It's like, well, We'll just blame it all on them. It's their fault.
Look, it's a great shame. And hopefully somewhere, somehow along the line, we've all learned a bit of a lesson for it. Ray, mate, thanks again. We love you. We're so glad that you've been supporting the show since day one. You know, that was almost opening the boombox on the Cronulla riots there, but not quite. So, you know, yeah. I mean, we've all aged significantly since that time. So cheers, mate. Thank you very much. Always good to chat to Ray. And don't forget. Yeah, don't forget, Peters of Kensington. For all of your gift, I don't know. Let's lighten the mood with a little bit of music.
A little bit of music. Well, it's probably a little bit boring to be honest.
Yes and no.
Pretty similar to what we've had for the last few weeks. Let's start with Australia. Maybe tonight, Kate Derouge. And maybe tonight, maybe I'll fall. Maybe he'll crash through my walls.
I could see, I could see like a montage of footage from the Cronulla riots being set to that song. Maybe he'll crash through my walls.
Maybe things will escalate. Who knows?
Who knows? Who knows? Maybe, just maybe.
Number one in the UK, Stick With You by the Pussycat Dolls.
I must stick with you forever.
Nobody gonna take me higher. I must stick with you. know how I appreciate it. I must.
Stick with you. Those Pussycat Dolls.
They really don't like spelling things correctly.
No, stick with you.
Don't cha. Stick with you. Yeah, It sounds like a sneeze, actually, doesn't it?
It's not.
Stick with you.
Bless you. Thank you. You're welcome. I don't know. Can we do the billboard charts? Sure. Great. This is so survival.
Everybody know the game don't stop trying to make it to the top for your skin. Look at this photograph. Every time I do it makes me laugh. How did our eyes get so red? What the hell is on you?
He said I ain't sayin' she a gold digger But she ain't messin' with no broke, broke Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger But she ain't messin' with no broke, broke Get down, girl, go ahead, get down Shake that lobby.
Tap it Shake that lobby, tap it Shake that lobby, tap it Girl, shake that lobby, tap it He's a.
Man on the floor If he ain't, let me know Let me see if you can run it it's an emotional roller coaster. I've been through that period of mourning and then... Every time I do, it makes me laugh. They're back with a vengeance. Yes. And not only that, but they're back in the number 4 position.
And Akon still has a cold in it. Number 5, a soul survivor. He still hasn't gotten over that. Kanye, gold digger #3. Laffy Taffy is climbing the charts. That one that was the ringtone that got it a lot of success. Who is it by?
DD4L down. Is that is that down for life or what is that D4L?
Yeah, something like that. And run it, Chris Brown. Still #1.
Yes, it's a one man's tale of a battle with a bad curry.
Run it.
Yes. I've got nothing. I really don't. And look, we don't really have much for music anyway, so why don't we just f*** off and do the next segment?
Okay.
It's been a long time between drinks, or at least a couple of weeks, between drinks or booms, I should say, when we open up the boom box. And although I feel like I've already opened it up a little bit with my little spiel on my concert experience, Your neck, your back. Yeah, and I was nearly going to say something else then.
Your knee and your...
Oh, I can't say that either. Yeah, but this is the safe space. This is the safe space for your boomer complaints where basically you can send in your boomer complaints to T-minus 20 podcast on any of the social platforms via our DMs and let us know the things that stick in your craw about modern society, really. Something that may come out of the mouth of a boomer more so than you or anybody else, and that's okay, because it is a safe space. So no one's going to sit there and say, okay, boomer, if you put it forward. We're just going to sit there and support you by opening up the boom box, which is what we're going to do right now.
It's open. It's already open. You already opened it.
Yes.
It's there.
Yes, it is.
Open, ready to go. This week's boom's actually going to come from Reddit.
Really.
Yes.
I'm scared of Reddit. That's my boom. I'm petrified of Reddit.
Yeah, the Ask Reddit thread. I'd never write anything on Reddit. I just read it.
Not only anonymously, I don't read it.
But I don't, yeah, I don't write it.
It's a brave person that goes under Reddit. I don't think any boomers are on Reddit.
Well.
Are they really?
I don't. Well, this is a boom.
Well, I guess I don't know how I stand corrected.
Well, it's actually, no, someone pondered something on the Ask Reddit thread and the response is a boom. But it's perfect. Are you ready? Yes. For those who lived before the internet, what was life actually like?
That's the question.
That's the question. That's the question. Pondered on Ask, Ask Reddit. And the response. You didn't have to hear what everybody thinks.
I love that. You really do. And it is what everyone's thinking.
I think it's just everybody's diary.
Yeah, and I think when it was sort of around 2005, it was a lot more so. Like people would just, with Twitter especially.
Blogging.
Yeah.
And you did, I think you did have. Online diaries, people would actually keep online diaries. Tumblr was a bit of a diary.
People would drop like status updates and look, I've been guilty of this too.
Yeah, you see.
Status update. Just went to the shops. Wow.
Who wants to know? Had some really nice noodles for lunch.
Are we that egocentric that we think that people need to know that?
We know what everybody thinks.
Or better yet, want to know that. Exactly.
And even if we don't go seeking it out, someone will tell you. Someone will, you can't hide. You can't hide from what the people think and then they'll tell you what they think about you as well.
Yeah, exactly. At Northeast in Cronulla, send help. Let's have a nice little escape from reality, into the box office. I mean, we're getting into the holiday season and that's when the box office really takes off. That's when people do go to the movies.
Boxing Day was usually a big one.
Boxing Day is a big one.
Wasn't it? Yes.
Yeah. Is this the US number one, this one?
Well, yeah, in Australia, it's still, no, still Harry Potter and his goblets, his flaming Sam Booker.
Oh, the flaming Sam Booker, I used to love them.
Here in Australia.
Until I didn't.
Yeah, until the next day. But in America, brand new number one, the Chronicles of Narnia.
There is a prophecy that two sons of Adam and two daughters of Eve will appear to defeat the White Witch. And put an end to this hundred-year winter.
I think you've made a mistake. We're not heroes.
There's no mistake. We need your help. I know, but understand, the future of Narnia rests on your courage. If it's a war Aslan wants, it's a war he shall get.
I'm not sure why like Ray Winston is doing the narrative for that. He's like, yeah, come into Narnia, where we're going to do a whole bunch of gangster stuff because we're in the movie ****** as opposed to doing whatever a giant big lion at the bottom of a wardrobe tells us what to do, right? It's weird. It's weird that Ray Winston voice, it kind of doesn't fit, but I guess it does because it did very, very well. And it is #1 at the box office. This is Disney and World of Media that produced it, directed by Andrew Adamson, who's the guy that did Shrek. He did Shrek. So it was a little bit tongue in cheek. I think it cost him about 180 million to make, but globally, I think they made somewhere around $750 million, which is pretty good.
Yeah, obviously adapted from the CS Lewis 1950 novel. Following the four, what were they called?
The Pevensie kids.
Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy, who evacuate World War II London and end up in the countryside with a charming but mysterious professor. Goes through the wardrobe. It was Lucy, I think, that went first and bam, into the snow.
With Mr Tumnus. Yeah, the, what was he, of like half human, half fawn. Thing, whatever they call them.
Yeah.
I know the name, I just can't remember.
Does it end in a tour? Or something at all.
Not like a Minotaur, no, that's like a.
Centaur.
No, oh, Centaur, maybe a Centaur. Yeah, I think there's an or. It's something like that. It's not like something that you run over on the road and then you look at it and go, oh, not like that. It's not rd kill.
They're in Narnia, the world frozen in Eternal Winter because of the White Witch.
I like that. I like Eternal Winter.
Who is a bit of a bit of a villain?
That was Tilda Swinton, I believe, who played the White Witch. Fantastic actor.
And then the kiddies join with Aslan.
Yeah, which was voiced by Liam Neeson.
To break the curse.
Yeah, he's like, I will find you and I will kill you. I'm a lion with a certain set of skills. Yeah.
It's good to have lion skills. It's. It did well. They were saying it did well because it did have a bit of that Lord of the Rings kind of vibe.
Which was huge at the box office the year before.
Yeah, exactly. But it also had that more family friendly kind of angle. It's based off of a book that, you know, parents had obviously read at school.
Yeah, I remember watching the show cartoon on ABC and reading the book as a kid as well.
Yes, I remember watching it. I don't think... No, I did read it. I had to read it at school.
Yeah.
And it was just... Obviously, over in the States, it's winter as well this time of year, so it's perfect vibes all around.
Get your Aslan on. And I mean, it's hot over here in Australia, so we do like nothing better than being in an air-conditioned cinema looking at snow. What I like, what I find interesting about C.S. Lewis's books is the connection to Christianity, because there is lots of that. Now, we're talking about the sons of Adam, sons and daughters of Adam and Eve, and all of that sort of stuff, killing the white witch and all of that sort of stuff. But what I think is most interesting is there is a wardrobe there. And like all good Christians, they want all the bad stuff to stay in the closet. But let's go over to TV now. A show, an iconic show in Australia that was coming to a very sad end. I mean, I don't know how sad it was. It had kind of devolved into infotainment.
I was sad. I was sad. I used to watch this and we've talked about it. I used to watch this. I'd catch the bus at a later time of day to get to uni. I think I even arranged my tutorials around this show so that I could see. Well, no, just the Monday. episode of GMA because then I could watch Karen Morgold with the stars.
Oh, the stars. We are talking about Good Morning Australia.
GMA. So I could get my stars before I packed off and, you know, caught three buses out to Belconnen to learn things. She was just, her voice, her look, the way she presented, it was just perfect.
My favorite 2 star signs that she said in her voice I really liked were Aries.
Yeah. Pisces. Yes.
Yeah. All the ones that ends in C's.
Yes, the shorter ones.
Yes, she was very good.
Very therapeutic, wasn't she?
Now is not the time for rash decisions. I've done that before. But Karen Morgold was the GOAT of TV astrology.
She was. And obviously, Good Morning Australia, we can't ignore the GOAT.
Bert Newton. Yes, our Bert.
Fourteen-year run on Channel 10.
That's massive for Network 10, considering they've got no money.
Celebrity interviews, cooking demos, musical performances. As you mentioned too, though, the growth of the advertorial, I feel like, and it probably isn't, but I'm going to say it is. That's where advertorials started, really. Good Morning Australia, Moira.
Yeah, Moira with the, what would they, with another exciting offer from Danos Direct.
Danos Direct. There was always steam mops.
And there was that other dude that was really full on that had the ladder that you could put into about 50 different shapes.
Yeah, that was a I think that was a Demtel guy.
Demtel, right?
What was his name? It was a short name.
Wasn't Tim Shaw?
No, not Tim Shaw from Demteller.
I think he got a run on there, didn't he?
Possibly. I don't know. What was his name? He's so-and-so. It was a short name like Greg or Glenn. He's Glenn. Glenn.
Glenn with a ladder that you can do heaps of ******* things with. Yes.
And Susie. Oh, Susie. Susie Aitken. She was also on the infomercials. There was a lot of clothing, a lot of jewelry, makeup, steam mops.
It was hard to get around, because there were, it was like you're basically watching ads in this advertorial format.
But they did it well.
They did it well. But the thing that kept you coming back was Bert.
Bert.
Bert tied it all together. So anytime he wasn't on camera, you just wanted him to be back on camera.
He was so cheeky and he'd walk into the infomercials. There was many times when they were doing makeup and they'd give him a glitter eye or something like that.
He'd pop in and he'd just roll with it.
But he just, he had this sense of cheekiness.
And unpredictability.
And you'd go. What's he going to do? And sometimes he'd say things and you're like, did he just say that? But it's still, because it came from Bert, it still wasn't offensive.
Well, he's kind of royalty at this stage as far as Australian television goes. I think, you know, Graham Kennedy has since retired and I'm not sure if he'd passed away at this stage, but he's definitely retired and no longer in the spotlight. Don Lane not there. So Bert is kind of the last of the greats from the heyday of Australian television. And I mean, he's instead of checking out, which he could have done, he's just having fun with it. He's just enjoying himself. So it was a matter of like, what's Bert going to do next?
And he just made you feel like you're part of the show too. Like he did a lot of sort of cheeky things to camera and you just felt like you were part of it.
Bit of self-deprecation. It was almost like breaking the 4th wall.
Yeah.
He was like the Deadpool of morning television.
And Belvedere. Remember Belvedere? What was he, the floor manager? And then he used to bring him in because they'd have a little bit of banter and then he realized that the viewers loved this. So then Belvedere used to get more of a feature. Remember when they'd do the cooking segments and Belvedere would do the taste test?
To come up with all the stuff.
And he'd do a limerick or a poem or something to review what he'd just tasted and that just became a sensation.
Yeah, so it was a bit, I mean, kind of cringe.
No, I loved it.
Bert loved him too. who was also the music director for Australian Idol and all of those shows as well. So Channel 10 were really taking their pound of flesh out of John. It's like, mate, if you come here to do music, you are going to do every show that we put into it.
Yeah, exactly. You are all the music. And the cooking demos, so yeah, Belvedere would review the food, but Bert would always sort of walk in and pick something up and start eating at half raw, or he'd complain about how long they were taking, always whinging that they were taking too long to cook. Yeah, well, flirt with the chef. He did a lot of flirting as well with the guests too.
He was a notorious flirt. He was a notorious flirt. Anyway, this is him signing off for the very last time.
Keep it going. I haven't prepared anything. This is the moment now. I guess you don't look forward to it. Of course you don't. When we do say goodbye to you on Good Morning Australia. I think I've emphasised already how important the 14 years have been for me and the team here at GMA, and I'll never forget them. It's been a wonderful time for me, not only because I enjoyed hosting the show, but also I had the opportunity of helping out some young artists to get through. Theatre in Australia is ignored by a hell of a lot of the media. And it's pretty important, if we want to have a healthy theatre in Australia, we've got to promote it and get people to buy tickets because now the entertainment dollar is sought by so many venues. Also, of course, with the guests that we've talked about already and those wonderful regulars. I'll just mention to all my friends and the team here, this party on this afternoon, to say goodbye. I'm not going to it, but the reason I mention it now publicly is I'd hate someone to pick up and say that I didn't go to the party for any other reason except the one that I give you now. And that is simply, I want, as I told the audience, I want my last memory of Good Morning Australia to be the show we've done this morning. I hope they have a terrific party. I hope they raise a glass for my health, but I hope, more importantly, that they know just how important they have been to me and so has the show. In other words, we're talking friends here, aren't we? And if that's not a cue for a song, nothing is. I'm welling up.
Good old Bert. I love that he used to use all the advertorial and stuff. It's still to the end of the show. He's still trying to push theatre and the performing arts, which I mean, he's such a good and honourable thing to do. We really don't support enough of the performing arts, which is, you know, the thing that just kind of keeps us going through the day to day. if you work hard, you need to have some kind of downtime, something to entertain you. And what better way to be entertained than by some genuine good performing arts, whether it be music or comedy or theatre or...
Astrology.
Astrology or steam mops or even...
Moira could sell her way around a steam mop. Absolutely. That was art.
Yes, and right now we've got Moira in the studio with another exciting offer from Peters from Kensington. Thanks, Moira. Back to us in the studio. It's the Hatches, Matches and Dispatches segment. Of course, we're almost there. The last episode for 2005, 2025, whichever way you want to look at it. But before we go any further, let's get this out of the way. A celebrity who passed away, not only passed away, but was executed.
Wait, killing celebrities?
Well, they are famous. They had movies and books written about them. Maybe I'm using the term celebrity a bit too. Oh, no, I don't think so. Anyway, they said this.
Working together, we can put an end to this cycle that creates deep pain in the hearts of our mothers, our fathers, and our people who have lost loved ones to this senseless violence.
Now, yeah, celebrity. If you said Stanley Tookie Williams, you were correct. And I'm guessing a lot of people are like, well, who the bloody hell is Stanley Tookie Williams? Stanley Tookie Williams is famous in that he's a very famous criminal who was born on December 29, 1953 in Louisiana. Although sources differ on whether he was in New Orleans or Shreveport, he would become later on in his life one of the most notorious figures in US gang history as the leader of the ***** the founding father of the ***** gang.
That's the blue ones.
***** yes, ***** of the Blue and the Bloods of the Reds. That's right. So in the late 60s and early 70s, Tookie relocates to Los Angeles, where all the street gang culture is starting to really take off. And in 1971, he and another guy called Raymond Washington, a few other of his mates, helped found what became the ***** which was conceived as a group originally to provide protection and solidarity in the hood, but over time has become this big, powerful, violent st gang. And he led them to expand very rapidly into smaller sets and cliques throughout LA. And it really evolved into this huge organized crime network. So gang rivalry picks up in the 70s with the Bloods, escalates across Los Angeles. The ***** are implicated in tons of acts of violence, including robberies, shootings, turf wars, and Tukey and his cohort became the central figures that basically endorsed all of this gang violence and made it all happen.
And they came up with a walk.
They did the **** walk.
Yes.
Which is just, if you're white, don't even attempt this.
No, In 1979, he is charged with four murders that were committed during robberies. And prosecutors said that the crimes included a convenience store shooting. and the killing of three members of a motel owning family in a separate incident. He's convicted in 1981 on multiple counts for first-degree murders, plus robbery charges and then sentenced to death as a result. When he was imprisoned, he reportedly continued his gang activity behind bars. He was difficult and volatile and that actually landed him in solitary confinement for some time.
Now, this is where the redemption story for Tookie Williams starts. So when he's in solitary confinement, And he's there for several years.
Imagine that.
Oh, it sounds.
Being alone with your thoughts.
It sounds delightful. Just being all by myself.
Instead of putting them on the internet, you just keep them to yourself in a little room.
Not being around a lot of people. I don't think I'd like the little room part of it, but the rest of it, being left alone, I like. But he had a lot of opportunity for a lot of self-reflection, did two things.
Yes.
And he said, like, it didn't happen overnight, but I came to see what I'd become. And that led to him wanting to reinvent himself. So he becomes an author. He starts writing children's books aimed at discouraging gang membership and violence.
I'd like to read his children's book.
Yeah, and the titles were Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence, which everyone's like, what? Like, what a sellout. But he also co-wrote A memoir called Blue Rage, Black Redemption, which was published in 2004, the year prior to his execution. And as a result of all his anti-gang work from behind bars, he He became a huge advocate for not joining gangs. He did lots of school outreach. He mentored a lot of young people and he promoted truce, like the truce protocols between the gangs. He was very much this figure of possible redemption. And he was nominated at one stage for the Nobel Peace Prize. Multiple times.
He's thinking, I'm going to get off here. I've written some great books. I've done some outreach.
Maybe.
Got a Nobel Peace Prize?
Maybe. There was a massive campaign.
This might get me off the hook.
There was a massive campaign to let him off the hook, to basically call for clemency. And this is going from celebrities, activists, religious leaders, human rights groups. I think that if you look at movies like New Jack City and stuff, I believe that some of the characters there, there's a character in there that's loosely based on him.
And I think to around this time we are starting to push against the death penalty as well. Early 2000s, we started going, don't know if we want to.
Right, that's right.
Keep this going.
So do you know who knocked back the appeal for clemency?
No, who?
Was the governor of California at the time.
No way.
Arnold Schwarzenegger. Arnold Schwarzenegger denied. So he could have made the decision. Yeah, and he said no. And in his written decision, he argued that Tukey Williams had never shown sincere remorse nor cooperated fully with authorities, and that the severity of the crimes outweighed any post-conviction rehabilitation that he may have had.
Killing people writing kids books. Yeah, I can kind of see where it's coming from.
Yeah, listen, like it's like, you know, you're going to have to write a shitload of kids books in order to make up for that one human life you took, let alone A bunch of them.
Look, I don't believe in the death penalty, but.
No, and a lot of people don't, but I mean, this is what happens in America, I guess. So December 13, 2005, 16 days before his 52nd birthday, Williams is executed by lethal injection at San Quentin State Prison. He is pronounced dead at 12.35am Pacific Time, and witnesses reported that they noted the execution team actually struggled for several minutes to find a bait.
Oh, God, wouldn't that just be the worst?
Ask them, asking them, are you sure you're doing that right?
Oh my gosh.
He did not speak formally, did not deliver a statement. He lifted his head repeatedly to look towards his supporters, including his close friend and editor Barbara Becknell. And outside the prison, there were a bunch of vigils and protests that were held by supporters, like thousands of people, condemning the death penalty, as they always do, and arguing that he'd been denied that true chance at redemption.
His story does remain deeply polarizing and a symbol of larger debates. Because I guess think about the history of the Bloods and the ***** and being the one that orchestrated all of that and all that violence.
Well, because it's not only it's not only the fact that he's killed people. But it's the organization that he has found that is responsible for so much death and destruction and violence.
Yeah, over many, many, many years. But then on the other hand, he claimed to have turned his life around and, you know, was warning people against the gang life and tried to use his life as an example of what not to do.
I mean, that's very convenient once you're behind bars to do that.
Is this true?
I mean, it wasn't me. You know. I know I've turned myself around. Yeah. But I think, you know. And that's the thing, a lot of critics did reject that narrative. They were like, it's too little, too late, too deep. it is very convenient. You couldn't do it when you're out on the street, but since you've been caught and you're in trouble, you could. But, you know, he was a massive figure. I mean, he is responsible. Love him or hate him, approve of the death penalty or not, like that gang movement, the ***** and the Bloods, form the foundation for so much stuff in popular culture these days.
Are they still a thing?
The Bloods and the *****? Look, I don't really know. I don't know. I think. I think from a pop, like, you see Snoop Dogg **** walking at the Super Bowl and everyone's like, my God, I never thought I'd see Snoop Dogg **** walk at the Super Bowl in front of like mainstream America, but here it is. So I think it's more of a pop culture phenomenon. I'm not saying that those things don't exist. I'm sure that there are still gangs and there are still people at large that are doing all of that sort of stuff. I'm just wondering sort of how it's kind of manifested these days. And look, I don't really want to find out because I don't want to go anywhere near that sort of stuff. I certainly don't want to go anywhere near America at the moment, anyway. But that's not to say that I won't in the future. I think it's a wonderful country, just not right now. Anyway, that's just my opinion. Great.
Thank you for sharing.
It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. I'm not helping myself at all.
No.
You know, and we've we've we've covered a lot of controversial topics in this episode.
Yes.
You know, Tuki Williams' execution?
Probably best that we're having a bit of a hiatus.
The last episode of the Morning Australia, the far-reaching influence commercially of Peters of Kensington. in fueling the fire for the Cronulla rights.
I mean, Lots of great gift ideas for Christmas.
Yes, exactly. Go on to go on to Dan Oz Direct and see where you get one of those adjustable ladders that do 50 different things.
All the stockings that you run a nail file through and they don't ladder.
Yeah, they're good.
I need those.
Because then if you are going to join the ***** and you want to commit a crime, you put one of those stockings over your head and you know you're as safe as houses. Practically bulletproof. No problem. Yeah, that's right. Anyway, that is the last episode for this year. Not to say that we will be disappearing. securing entirely. There will be some summer program. We will give you a few best bits. And we'll try and sort of come back around Australia Day. I think sort of early to mid-January seeing how we're feeling. So make sure you stick with us through that time and, you know, keep us on your little subscribe following list on whatever podcasting platform you're on. Because like I said, we'll still pump out some content.
Send us through some booms, talk to us on the socials.
Come and find us on the socials. We'll post a few things. Exactly. We just need to recharge a little bit.
All have a nice Christmas and New Year's and all of that jazz.
Yeah, all of that stuff. And thank you so much for your support. You're the wind beneath our wings and other parts. Yeah. Until next year.
See you.
Bye.
Thanks for taking the time to rewind. Join us next time for another Week Fit Was 20 years ago. In the meantime, come and reminisce on the socials. Search for T-minus 20 podcast on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.