T minus 20
The year is 2005... Anakin turns to the dark side, YouTube makes its debut and we’re all couch-jumping for Maria, McDreamy and The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo…
T minus 20, rewind to this week in history 20 years ago with Joe and Mel.
T minus 20
Summer programming: best bits of 2005 vol 1
🌴 Summer mode, nostalgia maxed out
We’re hitting pause on the weekly time machine to bring you a sun-soaked sampler platter of the most unhinged, delightful and ‘I can’t believe that actually happened’ moments from this year’s T Minus 20 episodes. Grab a Frosty Fruit, slip-slop-slap and settle in — because this is the year in rewind, but make it chaotic, sparkly and aggressively early-2000s.
🎸 Ryan Cabrera and the reality-TV fever dream
Ah yes, the Ryan Cabrera episode — the one where we discovered the man behind ‘On the Way Down’ was also on his way through some of the most wonderfully bizarre reality-show plotlines of the 2000s. From the Ashlee Simpson relationship arc to the hair that defied both gravity and good products, this was peak celebrity-music-MTV crossover energy. The perfect time capsule of when pop stars doubled as plot devices.
🕴️ Prince Harry’s party-store disaster
Then we revisited the royal scandal that truly broke the internet in 2005: Harry turning up to a costume party dressed as a Nazi. The global outrage, the tabloid pile-on, the palace damage control — every single part of it felt like watching history facepalm in real time. And in hindsight? It became one of the earliest signs of a royal era unravelling.
🍦 Wendy’s: the pink-tiled paradise we didn’t appreciate enough
And finally, a love letter to the Wendy’s of our youth — the hotdogs warming proudly on those stainless-steel spikes, the cheese that defied physics, the Funtime ice creams dipped in sprinkles that stuck to your face for three hours. It was chaotic. It was pink. It was perfection. Australia absolutely fumbled the bag by letting this icon vanish, so we’re officially launching the Bring Back Wendy’s movement. Hotdogs on spikes for all.
🌞 Your perfect summer catch-up episode
Three nostalgia bombs. Zero homework. Peak chaotic energy. The ideal warm-weather listen while you’re at the beach, stuck in holiday traffic or avoiding awkward small talk at a BBQ.
Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.
Transcript is generated automatically.
The year is 2005. Anakin turns to the dark side. YouTube debuts and we couch jump for Mariah, McDreamy and a girl with a dragon tattoo. T-minus 20. Rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel.
Week of 18 December 2005. T-minus 20. Hey, what do you think this is a talk show? It's a nice breaker, don't judge me yet. This is bananas. The power you will come home. My question is, who approved that? Do you see where this is going? Not really. Hello, welcome to T-minus 20, where we rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel. Only, we're not rewinding exactly 20 years. No, we're not, no. Smack bang in the middle of summer programming.
Summer programming. The only thing that's on the TV is crickets and reruns of something.
Headland.
Yeah, maybe.
Remember Headland?
I remember Headland.
That became summer programming very quickly.
Yeah, that's about it. And so we are also part of that summer programming trend. And you can't escape from it, unfortunately. But I would argue that our summer programming is good because it gives us a chance to reflect and look at some of the best bits. of the show.
Yes, and we're going to revisit probably my most favourite moment of the year when we got an email from someone asking us if we wanted to interview one Ryan Cabrera. And we thought it was a joke.
Yes, I'm going to think it was for realsies. Well, I think that I feel like it might have been some mistaken identity on behalf of the record company.
Potentially.
However, we went with it.
We did.
We lent into it.
For about an hour and a half, poor Ryan.
Yes, so we'll give you some high highlights of that. We've also got the time that Prince Harry thought it was good to dress up as a Nazi.
Yes.
I did not see that coming.
Yes.
And then there was the campaign that we were going to launch, but I mean, we're very busy people. You know, we're flat out just holding down a podcast or even doing summer programming, but the campaign to bring back Wendy's?
Oh, the pink Wendy's.
The pink Wendy's. Not the Australian Wendy's. Yes.
With the fun time, ice cream and the hot dogs.
Yes.
The special hot dogs on the rods.
You can relish in the hot dogs on the rods. The rod hot dogs. All of those things and more. No, not actually, that's it really for this week of summer programming. We'll do some more stuff like in the coming weeks as well. I mean, it's a tense time. This is like the last payday before Christmas. Everyone's just kind of wigging out. So you can chuck this on and just forget about everything for about an hour or so. Go back to your happy place and then realise that you've wasted a complete hour of your time and Christmas is getting even closer. Yeah, good. But do you know what else is controversial?
What?
Nazis. Oh, yes. Nazis, very controversial, especially in this day and age. I don't even know if you can say, I mean, they won't say the word planet, the P word, and then I don't even know if you can say the N word, Nazi, anymore. I guess you can, in the context of this story, because this was Prince Harry. This is where he got in massive trouble. He went to a costume party, costume party on the planet Eris. It's cold. They had an ice bath. No, he attended a private costume party. Yes. With the theme colonial and native.
I mean, there's a problem right there.
Before you even get to the costume.
That's not a good theme.
Colonial and native. And you've got one of the royals attending it.
How is that a good one? We had two. Will win as well.
Yes. But the two brothers win.
How is that a good idea for a theme?
Terrible. Terrible. And on top of that, he's decided to go wearing a Nazi military uniform. And I get why you'd like that because Nazi uniforms look very smart. They're very well designed. It's Hugo Boss, you know.
Really.
Very well designed. Yes. Really? Yes, he was a German businessman and an early member of the Nazis. And he founded obviously Hugo Boss, the fashion house.
And the aftershave and all of that, just that guy.
They survived. They survived. Anyway, wearing Hugo Boss aftershave probably would have been a better option than wearing a full Nazi uniform to complete with swastika armband to the party about colonial and natives.
Someone obviously had their digital camera in their little tiny handbag and they pulled out their quick snap, whatever their Canon, took a photo and decided to send it to the sun as you do.
And made probably, I don't know, 20 grand or something.
Probably made a bit, yes.
Yeah, they would have made a little bit of money.
I remember the I remember the front page of the sun.
People were outraged.
Harry the Nazi. Do you remember that across the front page?
Yes. My goodness. They were outraged about it, particularly in Britain, because it's a very, well, it's a very offensive symbol, isn't it? Absolutely.
I don't know how he thought that was a good idea.
Well, they said he was, they said he was insensitive and disrespectful and I'd have to agree. I mean, I'd have to agree.
Yes. Holocaust survivors and Jewish organisations condemned the costume, calling for greater education about the Holocaust. And media around the world reported on the incident, they did over here in Australia, tarnishing his public image. I think until sort of this point, he was the cheeky younger brother and everyone thought, it's a little bit.
Was this the first misstep?
This was the first, yes. I preferred naked billiards, to be honest.
That was harmless.
Yeah, I liked that one.
It's just a bit, look, it was a different time and I'm not saying what he did was appropriate, but he got invited to a colonial ladies party for starters.
Think about what other costumes would have a... I'm sure there were. way more controversial costumes being worn to this party. Wills went as well. He was in a leotard.
Right.
He wore, I think, a leopard leotard.
Oh, really? So he was on the native side of things. So, you know, was he like Tarzan or something?
I don't know. I just know it was a leotard.
Great. No, they shouldn't. Look, there was a lot of scrutiny upon the royal family after this. And there were a lot of questions raised about their influence on Harry's judgement and awareness of historical sensitivities. And just, it just, I mean, it spawned A broader conversation, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
The fallout over Prince Harry's Nazi costume now has 25 European countries considering a total ban on all Nazi symbols. The scandal erupted last week There were photos of Prince Harry, third in line to the British throne, wearing a Nazi outfit at a costume party. Several German conservatives and liberal Democrats in the European Parliament have urged a ban on Nazi symbols. Germany has already banned them.
I just, I can't believe that 25 European countries are.
Considering.
Isn't that?
Did they do it? I wonder.
Well, I don't know. I mean, they, it's certainly, that you don't see those things being bandied around these days.
No.
You know, nobody's got like one, a sticker, like a swastika next to their live, love, laugh on the back of their car or anything like that. No. But Harry was remorseful, wasn't he?
Yeah. He issued a public apology and said that he was really sorry if he caused any offence or embarrassment, that it was a poor choice of costume. He apologises. In an interview, he was saying something about wanting to go and knock on everyone's door and apologise face to face. So I think it really affected him. The interesting thing now, though, you know his book, Spare, the one that came out recently.
Just very quickly, he was, how old would he have been at the time?
Yeah. Wow.
Like, think about the missteps that you make in your early 20s. And think about how, like you learn from those missteps, right? And it's just, it's the unfortunate thing for him is he's done it very publicly. But anyway.
But it wasn't, this is the thing, it wasn't just Harry. So if you've read his book, Spare, he said, that he got the costume the day of the party. I mean, I do that all the time. Oh God, it's fancy dress.
What am I going to go out?
And you go, remember that, remember that costume shop at the Canberra Centre?
Yes.
Where they had all the novelty hats. I'd always go there the day of a costume party and pick up a novelty hat. And I think some of those novelty hats were in poor taste as well from memory.
If it was a costume party, I'd usually just no show. Oh, it's a costume party or I'm not coming.
Yeah. if it's just a hat, I can deal with just a hat.
Stupid.
Grow up. So he's out the day of the party and he goes to the costume shop and he had narrowed down his options.
He's like, oh, should I be like...
He's in the costume shop.
Tarzan or a Nazi?
No, it was a British pilot or a Nazi.
A British pilot?
British pilot or a sand-coloured Nazi uniform with the swastika armband and a flat cap. So he said he's in the costume shop and he phones up William and Kate.
Right.
And he says to William and Kate, do I go British pilot or do I go sand-coloured Nazi with a swastika armband? And they both, of them.
Is that a quote?
Both of them go.
Nazi every time.
They chose Nazi. So they were in on it. According to his book, Spare, they were in on it. And so he rented it. He also got a silly moustache.
Oh, God.
And he went back to the house and apparently tried it on in front of them and they both laughed. And they're like, oh, ho, ho, ho. And he said it was worse. They laughed more than what they laughed at.
Oh, Hurry. At Willy's Willy's leotage outfit. Oh, you can see Willy's Willy packed into that leon.
If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
Mel, this is a pretty special week for us because we're getting to speak to this amazing person who was huge and has continued to be huge. His career has been fantastic right throughout the early 2000s to now. It is an absolute honour to have Ryan Cabrera on the podcast this week. G'day, Ryan.
Yeah, I need you to do all my intros. That was fantastic.
Oh mate, we're a bit Rusty, we worked on radio back in the day. So, we've had a bit of practice, but that was a long time ago.
Did you have a different voice for like your radio voice versus the way you talk at home?
No, like new school, like when we're working with like some of the old school radio guys, though, in the business, it'd be like, g'day mate, how's it going? And it'd be like... Yeah, there it is.
Yeah, we're back. WPPR 1035.
About you. We have got the 20th anniversary re-release of your single on the way down coming up. Before we get into that, let's do a quick rewind because that's what we like to do on this show. We rewind 20 years. So this is perfect. This is perfect timing for us. So we're going back. Ryan Cabrera, this is your early 2000s life.
The hair is spiky.
It's fully out. Let's take a moment for the hair actually, because your hair, incredible. Absolutely incredible. It was a work of art. And I've always wanted to know, were you using the TG bed head wax stick? Is that how you achieved? What product were you using to get that back?
It was, you're very close. I know exactly what you're talking about. I wanted to use that stick, the bed head wax stick, but it made my hair more limp. And I was going really like, not solid kind of thing. And so there was a bed head product that they don't, doesn't exist. this anymore. It was this really slim orange can. I think it was like a wax. It was a spray wax. Oh, yes. But for some, yeah. And it used to get like caught all the time. So I used one can. I was going through, I kid you not, maybe 12 cans of that entire thing a week when I was on tour.
Wow.
Because it was every day.
Wow.
Except for, actually, I take it back. It's usually day like Two, for me, was always the best hair day. I didn't touch that day. Yeah, wow.
This is like a massive hole in the ozone layer. I apologize.
A lot of hairspray.
It's okay, man. When you do like an album cover, you almost have to do like a gate fold just so you could fit like the, you know, the hair.
Oh, it was very important. Yeah, I make sure, make sure that the hair fit in all the pictures.
It was a complete work of art. I thought it was fantastic.
It was funny. It's just to me at that time, obviously looking back now, I'm like, my God. But I was like, that time, that was normal to me. That just seemed completely normal. But I would go to the airport and, because I was doing my hair like every day. I just, that's how I did my hair. I always had like weird whatever hair, but I was so used to it and I thought it was normal. I'd go to the airport and be like, oh. Look at my hair, I'm like, what? I was like, it's fantastic.
Like we're going to have to check in there for security.
Yeah. Fast forward, I guess started seeing people like doing like similar kind of things, whether it has anything to do with me or not, but it's still like, I was like, oh, that's how I used to do it.
Own it, man. Own it. You're a trailblazer.
Yeah. I mean, 100%.
You know, and at least.
I'm happy to have some.
Right. And your look has evolved, you know, whereas me, like I'm still dressing like I was 14 years old and I'm like 50 almost. So, you know, it's not.
Hey, it's what's comfortable. Well, gotta stay comfortable.
Especially when you go up, mate. It's all about comfortable, good footwear, you know, sensible shoes, all of that sort of stuff. Yeah. what? I never used to be a croc guy, but I'm starting to embrace the croc.
I wasn't either. I was the guy, I was a hater. I'll be honest, because I had all my friends, a couple of them would wear them and I'm like, oh, it's terrible. What the heck is that? I'm like, dude, you've got to try it. It's so comfortable. I'm like, absolutely not. I would never do that. And I tried on his. I was like, this is glorious. And I bought many, many, many pairs since then.
Have you got the accessories? What are they called? The giblets.
Oh, the gibbets. I have the ones that come with the gibbets because I bought the Margaritaville, like the Jimmy Buffett ones, which comes with a shot glass gibbet, it's got a lime gibbet, it's got a bottle opener gibbet. So that was obvious, you know, what happened to happen there. And then I got, I have a lot of Disney ones that come with the gibbets. And what was the new? Oh, I just got the Buddy the Elf ones.
Oh, for Christmas. Just in time for Christmas.
Yep.
That's awesome.
Early 2000s fashion though, besides the hair, I recall there was a time as well when you brought kind of ties from business attire into punk, rock, everyday wear. You were like a big proponent of the tie. Did you just grab your dad's tie one day?
It was a big tie. You know, it was what started it was on Jay Leno. You remember Jay Leno talk? It's like Tonight Show. Yeah. So I was doing that and they had, I had my wardrobe, but at that time I was wearing a lot of diesel. Like diesel was, I was obsessed with it. But I had my diesel shirt and I had my wardrobe like done. And then I saw this like big really ugly tie that it looked like something like my grandpa wore. And so I was like, oh, wouldn't this be funny? And I always like, mess around and stuff. So I was like, oh, wouldn't this be hilarious if I wore like this grandpa looking big *** tie? And then I kind of just thought it was dope. I was like, I kind of like it. And now, the past 10 years, I'm a very, I'm a skinny tie kind of guy. So I would, I was like, I would never wear a big tie. But it's funny because back then I thought it was awesome. And then I started, I remember throwing one out at the end of a concert just randomly, and then it became a thing and then started throwing one out every single night. So that was the thing for fans at that time was like everybody who tried to win the tie. and they'd fight over it.
What A merchandising opportunity.
I reckon.
Yeah, we did. Yeah. So I started making, we had those the big fat ties with my logo on it as merch.
So early 2000s music industry, vastly different. The landscape, vastly different. There was no, streaming hadn't really come in. We were still dealing with things like Napster and LimeWire and things like that. What we saw it from the other side, didn't we? Working in radio.
Yeah, working in radio when new singles or albums came out, we'd have the record company call us up and then the biggest thing was to get the single on radio and they'd be like, we'll give away prize packs. We'll give you a bottle of bourbon if you give this song some airplay.
Yeah. It'll pay holidays.
Yeah. And it was very much up to the label as to what was going to happen, the success of the single. They'd bring artists in to play for us.
And that was really interesting. Like you'd have like these really young artists and a lot of them were local, but occasionally they'd bring international ones to Australia for the main. not a lot of times, because it's too expensive to bring someone new out. They need to be established here. But they would come and they would play in the boardroom to a group of crusty radio DJs and sales reps who would just be standing there like that. And it was some of the most awkward. So that was the same. They put you through that as well. You had to do that.
Oh yeah, the radio. Every single station, you go to boardrooms. And it was... we were doing like 3 A day. Yeah. And it's very, luckily for me, I think one of the benefits of the way I kind of came up and at least to get signed was I had to go into a room with the president of whatever label, Universal, whoever, and just, and they would just go, all right, impress me. Like, so is that, do I start singing now? Is that how I should impress you? know, it is just so weird and awkward and You do that 100 times and you're just used to it. So when it came time to do like the radio boardrooms, I was like, oh, I got this ****. I was like, I'm going to have this room ******* cracking up. And I would do things that most other artists probably weren't doing. And it was just having fun with it and making them laugh. taking the awkwardness out of it. So I actually, at that point, I actually kind of enjoyed it. So I was like, all right, let me see how, if I can get them. It's easy to go in a room if it's specific fans that are there to see you. But if it's that radio boardroom, it's like, all right, how can I turn this around and make this fun?
It's a challenge. And I guess when you've been hustling, like up until that point, like.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It prepares you for all those rooms. But the music industry just in general, obviously with social media as well, is such a different, tool that we didn't have in the early 2000s. If you wanted, that was basically what we would call like our fan clubs or pages and forums. Like it was back like the original, like the chat rooms and the forums is like the original Twitter, essentially, you know, like that. And then fans would go on there. And that was how they found out or stayed connected. And nowadays with social media, it's so much easier to access, people, new fans, old fans, in like a second versus having to go, you have to have to go see that person live to figure out what they were doing in life. I'm so excited then.
It is so different, isn't it too? Because I remember back in the day when we were interviewing artists, we would get a printout of their bio, usually on coloured paper if they were feeling a bit fancy with black ink. And that was what you had to go on. Whereas now, like just preparing to chat to you today, I feel like a stalker. I feel like I know you. Yeah, because you...
Did that really happen? Is that true?
You're on the socials, so we can get a feel for what you get up to. So I have seen the Crocs on social. It's very impressive, by the way. But also you have that real-time interaction and that real-time feedback from the fans and just from anyone who wants to comment. How do you find that? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Because it is very different to the old fan club days where you could, I guess, have that filter or that layer where you wouldn't receive all of the information and then you'd have someone else kind of feeding the information back. So you could curate it to some degree.
Yeah. I've always been, I have like a love, a relationship with it. I love it because I think it's incredible that I can just go boom and send a new video, a clip of a song, or I have an idea of something to, I'm gonna do a show tonight, come watch. That part is incredible. I'm not like one to try to create content just for the sake of content. it's just not what I am good at. I like to write songs and entertain and DJ and do that kind of stuff. But I have friends who are just good at it and their stuff looks so cool. I was like, I've never really had the desire to get into it to be like a, Instagram or whatever they call it. Just for me personally, I was like, I'm not, I don't really love it. I think it's great for other people and I love that there's ways to monetize it and make money from it. So I think it's good as long as you're not.
There's a tipping point though, right, isn't there? There's a tipping point where it's like almost too much information. Like I used to love the first Wednesday of every month where I'd go and buy my favorite music magazine and I'd read about the artists that I looked up to there. And there was a little bit of an element of mystique about it all. Whereas now it's just all out there.
Yeah, and I think that's the way for me should be, because as an artist, it's like, here's my art. here's the songs, here's the stories, here's what I, what I was thinking. But then when it comes to the other part of your life, like you should know half the stuff about people.
Yeah, I mean, I think we're so lucky that we're of a generation where we were able to have our formative years before social media in a lot of ways because.
It's, yeah, stuff to look forward to. Like yours reminded me of, like I remember every getting excited about every Monday or whatever, like new CDs were coming out or. Remember, I don't know if you remember Columbia or Sony had those, I don't know if they did it out there, but you get like 10 CDs for the price of 1 and they would come with these little stamps and all the stamps for the album covers. Oh, so you guys didn't have that. Oh, it was amazing. So you get this big booklet of like thousands of stamps and all the stamps were like, you know, Nirvana and Utero, Soundgarden, whatever, you know, all the different bands, Bush, whoever, and the album covers. So it looked really cool. And you would spend like the entire day choosing your 10 CDs you were going to get in the mail the next week.
Oh, wow.
You would wait every day, you would check the mail, be like, are they here? Are they here? You know, figure out that. It was like, it was an experience, you know, to find the music, to get to hear the music versus now is, I think, a little bit less of an experience.
Yeah, it was earned.
What we did?
Yeah, and it's something that I, actually, I mean, Midlife crisis, right? So I started collecting vinyl. And I did it because there was no ritual involved in my music list. I was passively consuming music and I didn't want to do that. I wanted to sit down and listen and experience an album from start to finish and read the lyrics and look at the artwork and take in the whole package. And I found that I was taking that for granted. And I didn't even realize it's like, you know, 10 years into like streaming or it's just like, I can put something on, I can fast forward, I can do whatever. You know, none of this stuff where you'd be worried about too many, like wasting the batteries on your Walkman because you've got to go to the next track. You just endure the one that you sort of was okay to get to the good stuff, you know. So that ritual, I think, was really critical. And I think that's happening now with live music, right? Like there's still that ritual in performing, you know?
Oh, yeah. Well, you're seeing with, I think maybe two years ago is where it started or not. Exactly. But a year, two years ago, you started seeing all these bands that you loved just pop up out of nowhere, like, oh my God, so touring. And the same thing happens with us. I'm sure, there's people when they see like our Pop 2000 tour and see, we're going like, oh my God, I didn't even know they were still touring. It's like, yeah, we all have, but the past couple years especially has been an amazing resurgence for live shows and going to see the shows. And people are spending money at these shows, which is shocking because I know how things are getting so expensive and some people can't afford eggs, but they'll come to a concert and they'll buy a t-shirt, a sticker, lyrics, all this stuff. But I'm like, it's pretty amazing to see because there was a time when, like things are, times are too tough and I don't have enough money to go to a concert and get this and this. But people are supporting live music, I think, more than ever. And our concerts are getting bigger and bigger every year. We're on year seven. maybe eight, seven or eight. And because of this research of live music and people actually spending the money to go see shows, they're realizing that experience makes their entire week, month better. So it's worth, music is one of those things that's just always worth spending money on, obviously. Absolutely. But yeah, to the point, yeah, the live music scene is better than it's ever been.
Yeah, that's so good to hear. And I think two people are moving towards is this idea of experience, particularly after COVID and not having the ability to go out and do things. There's been this real shift towards experience over things. So it's great to see people touring again and that momentum building once again. In terms of performance too, like early 2000s, I need to ask, it was peak MTV, TRL. I remember I was in America 2003 and I was walking through Times Square doing the tourist thing and there were all these screaming girls on the side of the pavement just going crazy. I was like, what is that? And someone said, that's kind of where they do TRL up there. Oh, there's little bow wow, I think it was at the time. And I was just like, wow, you were part of that. What was that like?
That's definitely one of those things, like if you look back and you, hey, what about, you know, coming out 20 years ago is like your favorite part? That for sure was always like, because I grew up watching that and be like, one day I'm going to go to that window. You know, that was always, you know, in the back of my mind. And I was like, I want to do that. And so getting to actually do that, many times is incredible. That's the stuff that you get. It feels like just yesterday you were doing that kind of thing because it was such a cool experience.
Yeah.
Just to get to do that.
And I heard too, when you did one of your performances, if this is correct, if the internet is telling me the truth, that you mixed it up and you went actually down outside and performed outside. The crew would have hated you.
I know, my God, MTV hated me because I was like, all those people have been down there since, last night. they've waited 15 hours. I was like, why am I going to perform up here when all those people are down there? So they're like, yeah, that's not really how it works. I was like, let's make it work. And they made it happen. So they just brought a mic stand down. They just had to figure out like the technical part of getting a mic down there off the whim or off the cuff and brought it out in the middle of all those people and did on the way down acoustic.
That is incredible. That is a nightmare for a film crew. I work in video production these days.
They're like, okay, we're bringing one camera down. They only brought one camera down, one cam and one microphone.
They start stipulating rules back. They're like, you'll get one camera and you can have your guitar and one microphone and that's it. Yeah.
Well, because they have everything set up in their studio for a reason, obviously.
Yeah. And they're like, look at this. That's amazing though. You push the envelope and it obviously worked for you because you ended up hosting. Like you've got this natural ability to present and do all that sort of stuff. So I'm thinking those radio boardrooms and all of that sort of stuff gave you that grounding to actually then get on there and host shows. We watched an episode of Score last night.
Oh yeah.
And that was great.
Yeah. So I think, and it was, I think even that show was a little bit ahead of its time in the fact of the dating shows and people wanting to see people date, that kind of thing. But, and then also music and songwriting, later down the road, once, some more music driven shows started doing well on TV, I think that time period could have been, like, I think that show could come out now and still be a pretty, like a fun concept. Because, you know, shows, what it's like to write a song, but then there's the competition aspect. And then there's the, she, so for those of you who don't know Score, it was a dating show mixed with songwriting where the person who chose, say the girl was not blindfolded but next to a wall, he chose who she's going to go on a date with based on which song she likes better or voice she likes better. Now the kink was We had 24 hours to one day to write the song. So I would write it with the contestants and we'd just see what we come up with. And then my band would learn it and then we'd go perform it. And then she or he would pick who they wanted to go on a date with. That was actually really, really fun. It was cool. And it was cool too because it was on after TRL every day. So for me, you know, just as a fan, it was really It's just awesome to be like, my God, I'm on after TRL every day. One of those, like if you would have told me in late high school or whatever, like one day I'd have my own show and it's going to be after TRL every day. Like, you know, when kids get home from school, I would have thought you're crazy, but it was fun.
It was great. It was really cool to watch. And it is a great concept. I like once you get over.
It's too expensive. That was the only problem.
Really.
Well, it was, yeah.
You've got the band.
It's too much production because MTV, you know, MTV. Plays music videos and has that guy seven reality shows. And this one was like the budget was too big. So they're like, it's the most expensive show I think in MTV history.
Mate MTV don't play music videos anymore. That's happened for a long time. Yeah, they did.
This is back then.
They did, they did. What I liked when I was watching it, I think was seeing that you were fantastic, like working with the contestants and you obviously don't know who you're going to get, but to have that patience to actually coach them through, because you're dealing with someone who's obviously a musician to a certain level as well. They're reasonably established because most of the musicians on there were quite good. And then I was watching the band on it and looking at the body language for the band when these dudes walk in and they're like, I want to do all this. And the band are just like.
Well, because you know, these kids, you know, coming in and they're trying to tell, you know, some of these music musicians who have been on tour for 15 years with some of the biggest bands. And then you have this kid from Venice who's like, you have to play like this and you need a little more feel and fingers. And so I'm like, Taylor, Ethan would just be like, all right, bud. I was a little more patient than the band was with some of these kids, but there was a lot of hours spent and probably a lot that didn't make the show them. We would have probably shown some frustration at points, but eventually you're just like, okay, but it's your song, the other day. So I'm sure to help.
Mate, the end results were great though. Like that's what surprised me the most. Like I was watching it and I was like, oh, this is going to be a disaster. This guy's coming with this attitude. I'm looking at the body language of the band, like having work with bands. You can just tell straight away. Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And it's like, and so you see that you're like, this is going to be a complete train wreck. And then the end result was always. It's really good. really pristine. It was great. And I think that's largely thanks to the band and you coaching these guys. But like, what an amazing concept for a show and what an amazing job to do. You know, I mean.
No, it was so fun. That was such a good time. And I still, you know, keep in touch with maybe like five or six of the those contestants. One of them went on to be one of my really, really close friends and she wrote If I Were a Boy for beyonc�. She was one of the contestants on the show. And then another one of the cats went on to be on Glee, the TV show Glee. And then there's another cat who was like an influencer, a huge influencer now that I saw. I'm like, what? I was like, you have... what? He's like, dude, I'm making these videos. I'm an influencer now. I'm like, all right. And so it was cool to see that some of the people actually went on to do things not from my show. Like it wasn't like they were discovered on my show, but they were just talented people who, you know, kept at it and then, you know, had that under their belt and then took that experience and just tried to use it later. So it was cool that, you know, it was, that was one of the things on the show that we were very, very adamant about too. It was like, I was like, I want people who are good. Like, I don't want like the half American Idol thing where we show, the William, the people that were terrible for entertainment. I was like, I want everybody to be legit. So we went through every person and made sure that they were, we heard some of their original songs, we heard their voices. So that's why the company was like, at the end of the day, I was like, That could be a hit song, actually, like, damn.
Yeah, and I think if you look at, that's where the integrity of the show lies, is that it didn't take advantage of people who are untalented. It just brought talented people to the fore, right?
Yeah, we took the **** out of the dating part, you know, but the music part was all real.
But, and I think that's a great point of difference. And I think like, if you took away some of the MTV production values from the day, because you know, they used to have those real quick cuts and it'd be like, front on shot side shot and they do and it was a standard formula when they introduced new people. And if you kind of polish that up, I think that it's got legs today. Like I reckon we should bring it back. Yeah. Would you bring it back?
Let's go.
Yeah. Would you be able to do it again?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I think the idea actually would stand today.
I think so too.
People like dating shows, people like seeing people write songs, and people like good songs. And now the only difference is We did not have iTunes then. So you couldn't hear the song on the show and then just buy it right after. So that's something like now you could utilize that you couldn't do then. Now, you know, if we wrote a hit song for whoever artist that's on the show, because there's so much talented people now that get access to these things that they didn't have during that time, then you have hit songs that come out in real time on iTunes, like The Voice and that kind of thing. Come on, let's do this.
Yeah, it's ahead of its time.
We're bringing it back. Score part two.
So re-recording for the 20th anniversary re-release. What was, how has it changed? What's different in terms of creating, producing, distributing music? What are you finding today versus when you were first starting out? How has it changed?
Well, the landscape for me has changed because even this goes back to that conversation we had before. When I was in the studio then, It was, I had no thoughts in my brain. It was just making out. I wasn't overthinking it. I wasn't doubting anything. So then now going back and recording a song with a purpose. So I'm, I wanted to reimagine what would this song sound like today if I had wrote this song today. But since I'm going in with that purpose, there's, of course, you're going to overthink everything, but okay, where do we take this that it hasn't gone, that still makes sense without losing the integrity of the song and the feel of the song. which is what made it a hit. So it was actually really hard. We were at the drawing board for a while trying that. And at one point, it was almost sounding like an EDM song. It was like 4 on the floor. Like, is it cool? Like, I don't know if it's cool. I can't tell. Because, you know, obviously I've heard the song the same way for so long. So I was like, I don't know, man. Let's just. Why don't we go back and keep it the same kind of rhythm, like the drive and the feel, but just like update it and make it, take out the electric guitars and make it a little more organic than, kind of the original, which was more rock, pop, loop driven. So when we did that, I was like, there it is. Okay, here's a way to hear this song completely different. but still has all the elements of why, if you did like that song, why you liked it. So that was the kind of the biggest difference then to now is, trying just thinking too much of like, should we do this? Should we do that? But then when we got in the groove and we found, what we were going to do with it, then it just flew. And then it's like, my God, what if we get, Taylor Hanson to sing the second verse? And so it got him and then, oh, you know who could be cool on this? I was like, what about AJ from Baxter Boys? Because we were just on, we were together a couple weeks ago and he was singing these rips and I was like, that's dope as hell. And so then that started to bring new elements of it. And then it all just started to come together and it's got super fun just bringing friends in to kind of put their stamp on one of my songs.
Let's talk a bit more about some of the reality TV stuff. Like obviously Score on MTV was a big thing for you. It was... Reality TV was so massive in the early 2000s. Idol had just started. We'd had one season of Idol and I think that changed the landscape of music A lot.
I watched the Osbornes. I'm guilty.
I love the Osbornes. I loved it. Yeah. Ozzy's a hero of mine, you know?
That's what's, I mean, that's what, that's what started it at all. Cause you know, people be like, oh my God, I have a window into some celebrities lives.
Yeah.
You know, but kind of before like the paparazzi was even a thing or like those kind of.
But you were kind of immersed in the early reality TV with the Ashley Simpson show. You guys obviously dating in the early 2000s and her show came out, I think it was filmed in 2003, came out 2004. And you obviously featured in that. And that, again, it's still that very early time for reality where it actually was reality.
It was actually real.
Exactly. Cameras following you around and capturing the real life. What was it like being part of that in the early days?
That show, that was a blast. Like that was just, you know, two young kids grow up, like we lived in the same house. kind of coming up around the same time and being that age, obviously, being young and just, everything was so new and fresh. They literally just followed us around with cameras. So at some point, we literally didn't even realize they were there. Like it was just us being us. Like whatever happened, happened. And what's kind of cool, I guess, ish for me is like to get the different perspective because obviously fast forward and I was dating someone who happened to be on a different show called The Hills, which was when she asked me, she's like, we will, you know, we're going to spend time together. we kind of have to be around this show. I'm like, and then you get there and I'm like, all right, whatever. I've done this before. And then you have a script and like what you're doing that day and stuff. I'm like, whoa, wait, what? I was like, no, no, no, I'm just me.
Yeah.
I'm going to be how I'm going to be. And they're like, well, we need you to be that, but with this as well. And I'm like, yeah, not saying that, not saying that, not saying that. So I just kind of had to navigate through that part. But when you go to Ashley's show and like in Jessica's show, Newlyweds, that was just cameras around and you forgot they were there and just you being you forgetting all about it and then it coming out, I guess, in front of other people as well. And I don't even know what, I know I've seen a lot of clips from some of the episodes, but I don't really know.
So you never watched any of it or?
No, we didn't watch them.
I do remember you getting in trouble on Valentine's Day for not performing a song for Ashley. She was very upset. And I don't think you gave her a flower either. I hope you've learned from that.
I did.
Valentine's Day is coming up.
That became a whole thing because I ended up, I did get her flowers actually, but they were waiting for her. I hope it was a surprise for when we got back because we lived in the same apartment complex that I had put whatever. And then when we got home and she saw him, I was like, oh damn, I just gave him so much **** because he didn't get me flowers. And then there they were waiting in the apartment. And then I was like, I forget what I did. I think I ate one of them. And I got it was weird. Like it didn't like get me high, but I felt real funny after that. I ate like one of those. I don't know what was in that flower. One of those died roses or something. I was like, I feel real funny and I don't know if we should be filming right now because I don't know what I'm about to say. So let's cut the cameras for the first time.
That's right. It's not *******. I mean, what are you telling? Yeah. But I think that's given you obviously great grounding so that you've and it speaks to your integrity that you could go on to another show and be like, no, like I've been through this before and I'm, there are things that I'm not going to do. A lot of people in that situation, I think walking in quite naive, wide-eyed would pretty much do. You can get away with a lot when you point a camera at someone. You know, you can make people.
Yeah, there are a lot of people obviously who, you know, doing it for those reasons kind of things. Like they just, they're doing it either putting themselves as a different person from the camera, but then also just caring about just being on camera. Yeah. with that, with the ladder show, I was like, there's things that I'm not going to do. I'll do a couple of these things that to me are fine, but for the most part, that's why you don't see me much on it. Because you're like, well, we can't use that because you're telling me what this is. I'm like, ain't my problem.
You ruined the take.
Yeah, ain't going to do it. I don't even know who half these people that you have me talking about are. I didn't even met them. They're like, okay, but then this person did that. So ask her about this. Or they're like, I don't know. that is. Absolutely.
Now something that we ask everyone who comes on our show is if you could rewind back 20 years, so back to 2005 Ryan and you could bump into 2005 Ryan and offer him some advice. What advice would you give him?
Oh, that's a great question. You know, I know it's crazy because you thought at the time you're doing it, but at that time, for me, it would be, you know, like, enjoy what's happening that day and stop worrying about what you have on the schedule tomorrow kind of thing. Because, and I always tried to be like, you know, appreciate everything that you're doing. And I did, of course, but like, and it happens so fast because all these things are moving and so many things are happening that you kind of, along the way, at some point I kind of just forget, even if it's for a day, you forget of how, like, even on the bad days, like how lucky you are to do what you're doing or how lucky you are just to be alive. It's like, this is a great day, you know, every day is a great day if you're breathing. So it was, you just like, enjoy that day and stop worrying about the interview you have to do at 4:00 in the morning tomorrow, because tomorrow's tomorrow.
Something that created a lot of hype and hysteria, probably going on a month or so ago now, was the big announcement about Wendy's coming to Australia.
Yeah, but like the American Wendy's coming out here. So the Wendy's, they do like burgers.
Burgers, they do milkshakes. And I ate it when I was in America. And yeah, very big servings, lots of different milkshakes, I remember. And I think. Maybe some hot dogs. It was, it was typical American vibes.
I love to do like a fast food franchise tour of America, but I just don't have the calories. And I don't have the fortitude to actually try and exercise it off after I've committed the crime either. So, but I just, they've got so many options.
They do. And we were so excited to hear that it was coming here to Australia. I think they announced a few different locations.
Well, people freak out. Remember when like In-N-Out Burger do the pop-ups and when people get wind of them? I can remember they did one in Canberra and people were lined like they went viral and within half a day thousands. Thousands of people showed up for it. They inevitably sell out. You line up for four hours for basically a burger that you could buy that's similar to what you get at McDonald's.
And people just lose their mind over it. And I got really excited because I thought... They were bringing back 90s, 80s, 90s, Australian Wendy's.
The Wendy's that we know and love.
The O.G. Wendy's. I want none of this American Wendy's.
Right, and that is the OG Wendy's, because the Wendy's that we know and love is the pink Wendy's at the Belco Mall, and you.
Said there was one at the Hyperdome.
The Hyperdome, and you'd go down there, and that was just an ice cream bar, basically.
Well, it was ice cream and hot dogs, hot dogs and thick shakes.
Oh, my God, I just remembered the hot dogs.
They had this special way of making the hot dogs. They had these metal rods.
It was quite ******.
It was very, but it was pointy. It was ****** and pointy, dangerous ******.
And they were hot.
Dangerous ******.
Scorching hot pointy metal rods.
Pointy metal rods that were heated up and they'd get the bun and they'd twist it and twist it down the rod.
They'd slide the bun down the rod.
So they'd effectively, instead of cutting the bun.
So the rod would become ensconced in the bun. Instead of slicing the bun in half, they would insert it.
Put this hole with this hot rod and the rod would then toast around this hole that it's just created.
Yes, so the hole in the bun, the insertion would become cauterised, toasted and toasted to perfection.
Then they'd fill it with shredded cheese that would then melt into the hole.
Into the hole. The cheese would melt in the hole.
And as the cheese is melting in the hole, they'd also insert the hot dog because you don't want the cheese melting too much because you've got to get the hot dog in so that the cheese melts all the way down the dog.
You have not lived until you have eaten a hot dog that has been inserted in a cheesy bread hole.
Oh, incredible.
It's just...
Stop it. I'm just thinking back and...
Oh my God. I really love those. I think it was.
Just called the cheese dog, that one. That was the cheese dog.
It was a... It also had sauce of mustard in it.
Variations, but the cheese dog was the only one that I got.
Well, that was the OG, because it just, it was simple, and in that simplicity, we found utter perfection.
And nothing fell out of it. None of these onions falling on the floor in bunnings and someone slipping over and injuring themselves. It was all contained within the bun.
Exactly.
Self-contained.
It's perfection. It was the most perfect hot dog you would ever have in your life. And the thing, the simplicity in the design.
Yes.
Because anyone could have made it.
The structural integrity.
But you needed the tool.
Incredible.
You needed the hot rod. You needed the hot rod.
And you can't just get them anywhere. They had about six of them so they could do 6 hot dogs as well. See, understand why I'm so excited when they said Wendy's is coming. coming back, I'm like, what?
Yes, they did the six buns on those hot metal rods and you knew someone was going to have a party.
And they'd also, they had this incredible menu for soft serve as well. So they'd have all these different soft serves that you could get.
I love soft serve.
They had the flake, so it was just soft serve with a flake in it. You had like a crunchy, which where they put the syrup that dries hard and then they put honeycomb sprinkles.
The chock dip, just the.
Favorite was the fun time. So the fun time was a soft serve.
Yeah.
They'd then dip it in the chocolate and then roll it in sprinkles.
Yeah, right.
It was pretty basic, but it was incredible.
I liked that one as well. It was hundreds and thousands of the chocolate.
Yeah.
And I used to replicate that at home with Ice Magic. It's not the same. But you always have to wait till.
There's ones where they did faces with the Jaffas for eyes and the...
Excuse me, the Agro cone. Was it Agro?
Was the face Agro?
Agro from Agro's cartoon connection. I think he had the teeth.
Fake the lolly teeth.
The lolly teeth.
I didn't realise that was agro. I didn't. Maybe it wasn't agro.
Smarties for eyes.
Maybe we just called it.
I think there was a banana. There was a banana across there for his top lip and then the teeth.
No, it was probably just the agro cone.
There's a thing of beauty. I think it was, but it wasn't soft serve. And there's such an allure to soft serve. Because when you're a kid, like you couldn't get soft serve anywhere except for at the shops.
Well, then no, the ice cream truck, the ice cream man.
Right, so it's a coveted thing, the soft serve. How do they get the texture? You could never replicate it. You could let your ice cream melt to the point of soft serve, but you never had the patience for that when you had ice cream.
And then when you got Sizzler and you could get your own soft serve, that was a big deal.
The game has changed.
Anyway, back to Wendy's, they also did shakes.
Yes.
And they were kind of the first that did what lately has become the freak shakes, but that they did it. They were the original.
Yeah, I went to Wendy's Bellco. I've been there. I've done it.
Yeah, before Maccas started doing all those weird McDonald's flurry things.
Whatever, mate.
Wendy's.
The OG's. Like, not American Wendy's, the one that serves all the. Burgers and all that other ****.
Pink Wendy's.
We're talking about Pink Wendy's, Belco Mall, Tuggeranong Hyperdown, the Australian institution that made the perfect hot dog with the burnt hole in the middle of it that you could slide the dog and the cheese into. That's what we're talking about.
There's someone that went on a, I can't. I can taste it. I can taste the cheese dog. Oh my God.
I know.
Didn't you know someone who went on a pilgrimage to find, because I think there is still, well, no, Wendy's was a franchise. And I think they've kind of brought the franchise back, but I think it's Wendy's Super Sunday. It's a little bit different.
Not sure. But I think some of the menu items are the same, and he did. And I'm not exactly sure of the specific location, because I was just going through the socials one day. And heaven forbid, you actually go through the socials now and you see what your friends are doing as opposed to being pushed advertisement all the time. But I glimpsed upon this. I was like, oh, that's somebody I know and they're doing something. They're going to Wendy's. And he's a big aggro fan. And he's ordered the aggro cone. And like the kid that's working in the Wendy's, no idea.
I wouldn't know who aggro is. No, of course not.
So I think that he may have, and I'm not sure entirely, but I think he may have had to talk them through the construction. He had to guide.
Them through the assembly of an aggro. Oh, that's beautiful.
I love that. I love Wendy's. Oh my God.
Bring it back. If that's a pop-up in Tuggeranong, people would be queuing for days.
Screw Carl's Junior or in and out or whatever. See, I'm just burning all of these companies that could potentially endorse us. Pink Wendy's. Pink Wendy's all the way. Yeah, like bring it back. Let's get a change.org petition going. Let's, I don't know, let's get your Yeah, and your hot rods. Yeah, you stick it. Well, I don't know what you do with the hot, but anyway, can you buy, can you buy those hot dog things now? The hot rods for the hot dogs.
I have a feeling. I don't think they were designed for hot dogs. I think they've repurposed them from some other thing.
Right.
I reckon you'd find something in Bunnings.
Like some weird medieval torture device.
No, like something to fix a car or something. I feel like it wasn't purpose-built for that. I think somebody just accidentally dropped a bun when they were fixing their car on this other apparatus.
What am I going to do now? I'll put a sausage in that. There we go. It's week one of summer programming.
I did a revisit. I enjoyed that.
Did you?
Yes.
I've got a hankering for a hot dog now.
Yes, with cheese.
Yes, or even with an agro cone for dessert. I think that'd be really good. Speaking of melted cheese, it's probably going to get pretty hot here in the coming weeks. So once again, summer programming continues. We'll see you next week. Thanks very much for your support. Well, we won't see you next week, but you'll see bits of us next week and you can enjoy that. Have a great holiday in the meantime. It's Christmas Eve. Oh, it's Christmas Eve next week.
No, it's Christmas Eve on the last day of this cycle.
Oh, right.
And so the next episode will be Christmas Day.
Christmas Day. We're dropping an episode on Christmas Day. That's a bit stupid.
Oh, well, we'll see you then.
Bye. Thanks for taking the time to rewind.
Join us next time for another week that was 20 years ago. In the meantime, come and reminisce on the socials. Search for T-minus 20 podcast on Facebook Instagram, and TikTok.