Dive Deep into Aquaculture with Josh Neese: Join us on a captivating voyage into the world of sustainable seafood farming. Josh Neese, founder of the Florida Oyster Trading Company, shares his transition from sales to marine biology and the intricacies of aquaculture. Discover the significance of oyster farming in the blue economy, its role in sustainable food production, environmental conservation, and the creation of jobs in the aquaculture sector.
Tackle the challenges faced by the industry, from the capital-intensive nature of seafood farming to the decline of wild oysters due to human impact. With insights from Josh, understanding these complexities becomes a breeze.
Look towards the future of seafood farming and aquaculture as we discuss the ambitious plans for the Florida Oyster Trading Company. Delve into the process of raising capital in the aquaculture industry, the various investment avenues, and the critical aspect of workforce development in seafood farming. Whether you're a seafood lover, an aquaculture researcher, or keen on sustainable farming practices, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge. Embark on this journey and immerse yourself in the world of aquaculture with us!
Josh Neese
Florida Oyster Trading Company
Riv Capital
Merrill Charette
Brought to you by
SHIPSHAPE.PRO - Innovative platform that bridges the gap in marine repair
&
MIDA.PRO - Marine Industry Digital Agency - Web dev / Marketing
Podcast - SHIPSHAPE INTERNATIONAL OCEAN INSIGHT
Dive Deep into Aquaculture with Josh Neese: Join us on a captivating voyage into the world of sustainable seafood farming. Josh Neese, founder of the Florida Oyster Trading Company, shares his transition from sales to marine biology and the intricacies of aquaculture. Discover the significance of oyster farming in the blue economy, its role in sustainable food production, environmental conservation, and the creation of jobs in the aquaculture sector.
Tackle the challenges faced by the industry, from the capital-intensive nature of seafood farming to the decline of wild oysters due to human impact. With insights from Josh, understanding these complexities becomes a breeze.
Look towards the future of seafood farming and aquaculture as we discuss the ambitious plans for the Florida Oyster Trading Company. Delve into the process of raising capital in the aquaculture industry, the various investment avenues, and the critical aspect of workforce development in seafood farming. Whether you're a seafood lover, an aquaculture researcher, or keen on sustainable farming practices, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge. Embark on this journey and immerse yourself in the world of aquaculture with us!
Josh Neese
Florida Oyster Trading Company
Riv Capital
Merrill Charette
Brought to you by
SHIPSHAPE.PRO - Innovative platform that bridges the gap in marine repair
&
MIDA.PRO - Marine Industry Digital Agency - Web dev / Marketing
Podcast - SHIPSHAPE INTERNATIONAL OCEAN INSIGHT
Welcome aboard the Ship Shape podcast, your ultimate destination for marine wisdom and expertise. Our skilled crew, comprised of top-boating journalists and experts, is committed to delivering informative and captivating content week after week. We're eager to connect with and learn from our fellow mariners, and we encourage you to share our podcast with your friends. Remember, word of mouth is our lifeblood, and if you enjoy an episode, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. By doing so, you're helping us forge a robust community of mariners who can learn, collaborate and exchange their experiences out on the water.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Ship Shape podcast. Today we're charting a course with Josh Nies. From his early days in sales to pivotal roles as the fishery biologist in Louisiana, josh has navigated diverse waters. His experience in governmental positions have honed his perspectives, leading him to the helm of his current venture, the Florida Oyster Trading Company, pushing the boundaries of sustainable oyster farming. Join us as we dive deep into Josh's journey and the ripples he's creating in today's oyster industry. Your two co-host today are Meryl Shredd I'm a live board on Atosh Xing to Shiba 36 in Boston, massachusetts and T hey guys, welcome to the Ship Shape podcast.
Speaker 3:I'm Ati here, and today we have Josh in the house with us and he's going to tell us about oyster farming in the south. So welcome to the show, josh.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for having me. So, Josh, where are you coming to us from?
Speaker 4:I am in Pensacola, Florida.
Speaker 3:Nice. What's the weather there like?
Speaker 4:Still hot, still hot.
Speaker 3:Still hot.
Speaker 4:Yeah, if it gets into the 80s, we're considering that fall.
Speaker 3:So still pretty warm considering Nice and I know, in Virginia and in the north, we just we're, you know, reading from some storms. How'd you guys fare?
Speaker 4:We being in Pensacola, we were a good ways away. We were on the weak side of Adalia and but you know our fellow growers in the Cedar Key area didn't fare so well. We really hear any any totals or you know results of it, but I was a pretty strong storm with the Gulf waters being so warm.
Speaker 2:So before we get into aqua culture, that's here how you actually got into this industry and from your bio. You weren't always in biology and aqua culture, you were in sales. So how did you go from sales to aqua culture?
Speaker 4:Well, probably back it up a little further is how I got into sales. In school I was having a really good time just playing baseball and hanging out with my wife and probably didn't pay as much attention to my career track at the time as I should have. So, as most of us former athletes do, we kind of just gravitate towards sales and landed a great position with a great Fortune Pop in her company and you know it was a great experience but it just didn't speak to me. So over time, you know, kind of looking for that passion of something you know it makes me jump out of bed in the morning you get roll and I kind of landed in biology. Even then I didn't really know what I wanted to do with it. You know, at the time it was well. You go to school, you get a green ego, find a you know government position to work for and you put your time in whatever it is 20, 25 years and you retire. That's pretty much it. But you know, it all kind of happened, I hate to say haphazardly, but that's how I got to this point.
Speaker 4:My first, what I call my first big boy job out of school was with Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, which was wonderful experience and actually my introduction to oyster aquaculture. And then from there, as a biologist, I was given the opportunity to be a hatchery manager for the state of Alabama at a fin fish hatchery Huge 25,000 square foot facility in Gulf Shores, alabama, where we we produced a red drum for a pompano and we just started working on Southern Flounder before it left and then into the private world in a commercial industry. I really enjoyed oyster aquaculture because it's a very straightforward process in comparison to fin fish and you know it was an opportunity to kind of combine both careers, both the business aspect as well as the biological aspect. And once I got a taste for it it was no looking back really. And of course COVID happened while I was at my last you know quote unquote job and that was an opportunity to go out on my own and, you know, establish a foreign oyster trading company and kind of look at the industry from a different standpoint really.
Speaker 2:You know, it's an interesting change from doing sales to deciding to actually go back to school and learn all this, and I would love to kind of hear a little bit more of that thought process and really, you know, besides the waking up in the morning and having a passion for something, what was that like? How difficult was it?
Speaker 4:Really what difficult. Because I mean, it was something you know, it was something exciting and it was something different. And you know, again to my detriment, I kind of floated through college, first go around, academically speaking, and you know this was an opportunity to kind of make amends with that from the academic standpoint. Now, one of the deciding factors was actually okay, if I go into marine biology, I mean it's kind of hard to do that, you know, in the mountains or in the Midwest. So I've always been a beach person, I've always loved the water and love fishing, so that was a way to kind of anchor me to the coast.
Speaker 4:Really, the process again, it's just, it kind of just fell into place. You know, my thought process was okay, since I already have a bachelor's. I studied communications the first go around and you know I was like, all right, well, I'll just go to grad school. Well, my two piddly biology classes didn't quite cut it, so I had to take some more undergrad and found out that I would be able to just knock out a second bachelor's in the same time frame. That would take to take the five or six courses to fall five for grad school, which thankfully it worked out because I, you know, a lot of great instructors, a lot of great content in those additional classes, so it was really beneficial. And then you know, landed, landed, a wonderful, wonderful grad lab where we studied reef, fish, ecology and aquaculture. And so it's funny how things just kind of fall in place when you look at it from a real, just organic standpoint.
Speaker 3:So tell us a little bit about because you obviously you work for yourself, you work for the government, you work for other companies like tell us about those different roles and perhaps which ones resonated with you the most and why.
Speaker 4:Well, I think I feel like they all served a purpose. You know, obviously you know where I am now establishing a company and launching a company in this past year with production. The autonomy speaks to me. I love, you know, having the freedom to do as a please and the way I see fit. But you know, obviously there's a certain bit of a risk involved with that. So it's exciting.
Speaker 4:You know, I compare my time with the two state agencies as almost military training, for you know, men retiring from the military and becoming a local law enforcement. It's like, you know, I was well, I was well prepared. Fly to a class, you know, out in California, for you know, learning how to grow algae. It's really, really beneficial in that regard, but it's very structured as well. So, you know, in every case there's been a, there's been a trade off and you know, going back to my sales, you know one thing that that I've done in in launching the Florida training company is consulting to kind of cash flow, the operations and just getting everything off the ground. So the sales in the in the well-dressed supply industry actually served me pretty well when it came to, you know, consulting or representing partners in the US and all the various roles that I've picked up in the past few years. Nice, what sort of consulting was this?
Speaker 4:Well, I've actually worked with individual growers as well, as there is a tech firm in Australia that I represent in the US here. It's an inventory management platform. The company is an ocean farmer, you know, just great group of individuals, very innovative product that was born from a grower. To answer grower issues was an easy sell and something I believed in. So I've worked with them for three years now and, you know, just partners along the way, and even those partnerships and relationships have kind of led to the formation of what I think a lot of people are trying to do across the country is, you know, the cluster model, the bringing the industry and vendors and trying to, you know, stabilize supply chain and so on and so forth. You know, that's kind of where that concept originated as well. It's like why aren't we bringing these people together? So, like I said, it's funny, it's all just kind of falls into place.
Speaker 3:And so, before we deep dive into some of the Acrocoster stuff, I have a question about sales. You said something interesting right now. You said that you believed in the product. How important for a salesman is it to believe in the product they're selling?
Speaker 4:Well, I think it's pretty instrumental in your success. I mean, if you believe in what you're representing, then it makes your job easier and you're more passionate. And you know I'll take it even further. You know, if you're a user of the product, it just makes sense. So yeah, I mean it's huge. It's huge. I mean I don't think I would want to or agree to represent anything I didn't fully believe in or want to use myself.
Speaker 2:So blue economy right. New term that's come out right. It's becoming very prevalent. You're seeing groups start up all over the place and a lot of it has to come down to aquaculture. So can you talk about where aquaculture is presently at? Obviously, you've been in it for a while, so can you explain maybe how it's evolved over time? Is it becoming much more prevalent in today's dialogue?
Speaker 4:Well, speaking from an oyster aquaculture standpoint, over the past decade plus, oysters have become a hot-button issue and the fact that it's just universally accepted that global populations, not just isolated in a state or an estuary, global oyster populations are gone, you know we're talking 80, 90% loss and that, you know, being that, oysters are, you know, fancy another buzzword keystone species.
Speaker 4:You know it's not just food production, it's not just protein for a growing population. With the loss of those wild populations are also the loss of their ecosystem services. And so I look at oyster aquaculture as a vehicle to address not only, you know, food production and you know just one of those tasty treats that people love to enjoy, but also it serves an environmental purpose, even in aquaculture oysters, you know they're filter feeders. Growing them is a no-put method, meaning they're extracting nutrients and algae from the water, clearing it. So in terms of blue economy, there's this ripple effect. You know, I mean to me, I think, having a pristine bay with high water quality and, you know, a thriving, you know nursery for the sport fish it reaches into the local communities and that affects everything from tourism to how many people are moving to the town, property values, so on and so forth.
Speaker 4:So it's. I'm not an economist so I can't put figures to this. To me it's just kind of drawing conclusions between A, b and C, and that's why oysters, to me, go beyond just hey, you know, we make really great oysters, buy our oysters. It goes beyond that to the ecology, the economics and I would even go so far as to say the social aspect. You know, there's an opportunity for people to get into being an entrepreneur and working on their own. I mean, you know, obviously job creation. When those businesses are started you've got to hire people. So there's a great opportunity to touch so many different facets. That's another reason I just absolutely love oyster aquifilter.
Speaker 2:Why are all the wild oysters dead in the first place? Hmm, I killed them.
Speaker 3:What happened?
Speaker 4:I mean, there's no magic bullet.
Speaker 4:I think it's a combination of several things At the end of the day anthropogenic effects I mean what we're doing as humans and development not here to point fingers at anyone, it's just, it's a fact of life that they've disappeared and people are much smarter than I am, with PhDs and so on and so forth that that are working on solving that issue. We have an interesting take on restoration that goes beyond just the water quality contributions that the oyster aquifilter industry offers. You know, there's ways to go about actually putting oysters back in the water effectively and efficiently, and even on a budget, because there is a lot of money given. You know, here on the Gulf, with the deep water horizon oil spill that occurred some almost 15 years ago, 14 years ago, there's pockets of money earmarked for restoration and one of my pet peeves is how's it being spent? Is it going to groups that are actionable or are these funds going to groups that that aren't exactly producing results? So ecology aspect is just as important to me as it is with the food production.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you certainly see a lot of those issues coming up, you know, because of how fast these blue economy groups are appearing. And if you look at a lot of these blue economy groups, a good chunk of them have actually no experience in marine in the first place, which is quite a challenge when you're trying to come up with solutions for marine. So can you talk about kind of collaboration within this space?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we're fortunate enough we're in a good place that we don't have to drink from every cup that's offered from us, so we can be selective in partnerships and, you know, aligned visions of who we want to work with and in what capacity. A lot of upstart companies aren't as fortunate. You know they. Oh, there's a new group. They've got so many thousands of Facebook followers or what have you, I need to hitch my wagon to that star. So, yeah, there's potential bad actors in the group, just like anyone in the industry. You know, I like to think that most people have the greater good at heart, and those are the ones that we hope to identify and partner with, if we haven't already.
Speaker 3:And so I must see this going down two ways in terms of the oyster growth. One is, like you said, for restoration purposes. I imagine you can't eat those anymore, right? And then there are the other ones that you actually cultivate for farming and feeding people. Which ones are you guys more invested in, or is it both of them?
Speaker 4:Well, ultimately we'll be, you know, highly invested in both. Right now, our primary focus is launching farm operations for human consumption. But, you know, in the interim we've been laying the foundation for future projects because Florida is highly regulated. In terms of aquaculture, restoration, anything to do with water, florida is very highly regulated and that's not a bad thing. I think it's an advantage to us all because it allows less room for shenanigans. You know, I mean, if you have a group in a state that doesn't even have a division of aquaculture, I think that there's less trust there. And Florida, you know it's common knowledge we are very highly regulated.
Speaker 4:But, to answer your question, in terms of restoration, you know, laying that foundation now is important for what we do in a few years. We've got to gain that traction and work on, you know, the permitting, because some of the things we want to do haven't been done before. And you know we want to break the mold of what do they say? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. We want to look at things a little differently and so, in doing so and being above board requires time. So that's, that's one of the things we're kind of working on the admin aspect of it right now.
Speaker 3:So tell us, tell us a little bit more about what you just hit upon is doing things anew and maybe even like centers that in with just like what's a typical day in Josh's life right now managing this Florida oyster company.
Speaker 4:Well, with the launch of production this past year. There's a lot of lab time, so the Florida oyster trading company is a multi site, vertically integrated model and meaning we produce our own seed from local brood stock. Everything is in house. The seed then goes to our farm, which, to me, maximizes not only the estuarine benefits of having the oysters in house their entire life, but it also speaks to, you know, keeping monies locally, as well as the quality of the end product.
Speaker 4:If you have oysters that have been transferred between here and there and wherever, and they're going from an estuary with high salinity to an estuarial low salinity to about, it creates stress and I feel like you know animals that are naturally grown in a certain estuary and they remain there are less stressed. Therefore you're seeing a higher quality product. So there's a lot of time dedicated towards the actual operations, boots on the ground and then, you know, obviously working on with our consulting partners and just the admin as well. So there's a lot of hats being worn on a day to day basis and you know, the great thing is no two days really look alike. Take this morning, for instance. I don't really do a whole lot of podcasts. This is a fun new experience for me right here.
Speaker 2:Sweet. So can you talk about a little bit more detail about what differentiates Florida Oyster Trading Company's approach from traditional seed production methods?
Speaker 4:Sure. So it really begins with the micro hatchery. You know, having experience in both state and private, Just what is micro hatchery.
Speaker 3:Elaborate a little there as well.
Speaker 4:That's our name for our seed production. It's actually patent pending and it's based on the traditional model, which I would call an academic model, based on, you know, having the infrastructure at hand and, you know, labor through internships or graduate students. It's not necessarily an apples to apples transition. So what it is is actually taking it, the traditional academic model, and retrofitting it for efficient commercial production. So micro hatchery is stripped down. It's used when needed with low overhead in terms of, you know, power, labor, all that fun stuff. So it makes seed production and vertically integrating more accessible to the commercial market. So that is where I was for the most of the summer is actually producing seed for our leases in the micro hatchery. And I'm sure we'll talk about economics here in a bit.
Speaker 4:But you know, oyster aquaculture, in comparison to traditional wild harvesting, is very capital intensive. You have to, you know, have that capital expenditures upfront in terms of gear If you're going to produce seed. You know, building out a hatchery and cash welling all this until your revenue positive. You know, here on the Gulf we're fortunate with really quick grow out times. Always follow that with. You know we kind of have to with the tropical storm activity that we see. But you know, as you get into the north there's more prolonged grow out periods. So even though we have quicker turnaround in terms of harvest, you know there's still that pre-revenue phase that people have to, you know, float their operation, cashload their operation. So you know financing is a it's a barrier. It's a barrier. You know we overcame it through. You know consulting and cash flowing.
Speaker 4:There we have a wonderful partner, stuart, who is a financing group that accesses capital for farms, whether it be terrestrial or marine, and they actually funded the first micro hatchery and just recently helped us close out our first round of the raised with purchasing gear. So very, very fortunate to have Stuart as a partner. But you know, not everyone knows about him or applies or what have you. So you have, you know, more traditional methods with. You know I'm gonna mortgage my house or you know I'm just gonna dig into savings and all those little tidbits, kind of limit scale, right, I mean, because it's a risk you don't want to over extend yourself. At the end of day, we're dealing with nature and you might be able to do everything right, everything perfectly, have all the tools, but then hurricane rolls through or mid summer, mortalities have been an issue on the Atlantic, southeast Atlantic, as well as in the Gulf. So there's things that are out of your control, that you can only attempt to mitigate, but you know there's a lot left to deal with that you can't control.
Speaker 3:I still want a clear sense of the process, so tell us how the micro hatcheries work and just what the process is, from seed to harvest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do oysters reproduce anyway.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I told myself I wasn't gonna get into this, but as long as we can talk about sperm and eggs. So what we do in the micro hatchery is we sustainably source broodstock, which are the parents. We'll collect, you know, a handful of those, bring them into the lab and then we spawn them. And spawning consists of identifying the males and the females, which is done so with a sample from the gonads. We open them up, scalpel and look at a sample under a microscope and you'll see eggs. Eggs are sperm will separate those. The eggs are then stripped and consolidated into a beaker. The sperm is done so as well. We typically want more females. Females, you know, larger in size. You know we need. You need the eggs for the volume, the production volume and because a lot of a little bit of sperm goes a long way.
Speaker 4:But answer your question in nature, how they spawn, they release the gametes into the water column, it mixes and they fertilize in the water column. So once this furlap fertilization occurs, whether it be in a lab or in the wild, the oysters actually a swimming larvae for approximately two weeks and that's something a lot of people don't really realize. There they're swimming around their filter, feeding after the first, you know, I'd say two days, they really resemble a miniature oyster under the microscope. And in terms of, you know, size, you know we're talking about a fertilized egg being anywhere between 20 to 40 micrometers or microns, which is small, it's, you know, fractions of a millimeter. And then as they, as they develop in the larval stage, they'll grow to be about quarter of a millimeter and at that point in time you can kind of see them with the naked eye, especially like, say like in the white bucket or beaker. It kind of looks like, I don't know, finally, ground pepper. They'll have a little black color to them and at that point in time, once they reach that, that, you know, 225, 250 micrometers, that's when they actually begin extending a foot and searching for suitable substrate to a fixed tube.
Speaker 4:And in the lab that occurs, you know, in the setting tank. Hopefully they'll actually sell in the bucket on the side of the tank when they're ready. They're ready, but we'll put them in a set setting tank which each silo will contain microculture, just finely ground shell, and they'll attach to a single piece as long as it's size properly, and that's how we get single shells for the market at that point in time. Once they've set and fix themselves to the colch, they just grow, they grow, they grade out at 300 micrometers and then we move them out to the lease at anywhere from two millimeters to six millimeters, and this process takes anywhere, depending on the time of the year, for four to eight weeks.
Speaker 4:Warmer temperatures, the higher metabolism, the more food availability, the quicker they grow. So they'll grow a little slower in the colder months and are in our frigid, frigid Florida winters. And all this, all this kind of takes place, you know, beginning in spring and then throughout the year as they, as they kind of spawn out and, you know, use their use, their reserves how many seasons do you guys get?
Speaker 3:is it just one crop?
Speaker 4:no, they're bad spawners. One female, I mean never really counted, but you know they say one female can produce up to 10 million eggs in one spawn. So they'll spawn every, every so often, depending on, you know, depending on the, the environmental cues and the triggers. Oysters, you know, since they are fixed to substrate, be that, you know, a reef or a seawall or a pylinder, a shoe or whatever you know, since they can't move, they cue off of one another. So if you know, one begins to release firm, they'll all trigger to maximize that, that reproduction, to where we're not wasting your resources.
Speaker 2:So it's really, really cool how they, how they do that well, for how much sperm and eggs are going into the water and how often it happens.
Speaker 4:You know you'd think that there would be a thriving wild, you know oyster thing going on yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, given given all the the events over the past years, you know, I mean I think we've actually dropped below a threshold of being, you know, being able to maintain a thriving population. You know, and that has to do with just population numbers as well as suitable substrate. You know, some substrate gets buried over time through through silting or developing wetlands, kind of changing the estuary.
Speaker 3:So there's a lot of factors at play.
Speaker 4:But yeah, you would think so. I mean there's such a such a high volume. But but also you know, just like you know marine fish and anything kind of happening in an open system, you have very, very low success rates. I mean point I don't know how many zeros, one survival from those. You know millions of eggs that go into the water column. So it's really a numbers game where you they're kind of hedging their best and saying, hey, we're not gonna have us in session, we better have a whole lot of numbers out there.
Speaker 4:But yeah, yeah, I mean there's, there's a lot, of, a lot of factors at play and you know that that kind of speaking to the restoration aspect, you know that's why we kind of need to look at a little differently. You know, going and just dumping rocks out the bay, crossing our fingers, hoping natural accrued and occurs, isn't exactly the most proactive. Sometimes it's what's needed. Maybe there is natural accrued and occurring. They just don't have anywhere to set. Or, you know, maybe there's not, maybe we need to, maybe we need to be a little more proactive and put, you know, biological mass out into the estuary along with substrate.
Speaker 2:So you know there's no one quick and easy answer and how have you seen kind of the the global market of oysters consumption over the years? Is it an increasing type deal or is it kind of always stagnant or what's that look like?
Speaker 4:I feel like you know the oysters, the consumption has always been there. I feel like it's been a transition, however, with demand just outstripping supply so vastly. Oysters have gone from you want to say you know, 125 years ago, you know, being a penny or a street car, to you know more of a Sunday afternoon happy hour quarter, 50 cent each. You know, you drinking beer, watching the game, to now it's more of a table white tablecloth type delicacy, almost. Because you know, with the decline in the natural populations, I mean it's almost necessary that oyster our culture supplant that loss of production on the East Coast. A joke and say you know they're there. You know easily a decade plus ahead of us on the Gulf. Just you know, due to the sheer experience, because the Gulf is we're burgeoning in very, very early stages of the industry and so there's a lot of growing pains because compare East Coast to Gulf and West Coast, I mean you know it's not anywhere near the same situation. I mean.
Speaker 4:I go so far to say every estuary is different and you know, I've seen examples of where, just based off the hydrology of a base system, you can have a different product, the one end and the other. So you know, to me an oyster is not an oyster is not an oyster, it's, it's, it's. They're all different products because they are filter feeders and they are products of the environment. You know that that's one reason we've, you know, chosen our various locations. We want to tie into, you know, the various eco brands of oysters. You know, based off of, you know, salinity and the algal profiles of these estuaries. I mean, they're different products so you know, being able to offer that is something we wanted to do where it's not just a single source, single source product harvest so it sounds like there's lots of opportunity all over the place.
Speaker 3:What sort of advice would you give to, you know, some of the youth trying to get into this field where? Where should they even start?
Speaker 4:yeah, I mean, you know, I don't think there's one way. I feel like, just like anything, if you're interested in something, just get involved, jump in. I mean, it's not a, it's not a situation where you have to have a degree to do this. I mean, I know several folks that have just transitioned mid-career out of a lot of different vocations and gotten into it just because they want to work on a lot of. They want to work with their hands, they want to, you know, dictate their own work schedule. There's always the our voice here's. I miss them. I want to contribute to, you know, the the estuary. I want to build my business around that. So I would say, jump in, find someone who's actively doing it. Because, based on my experience and then this goes back to to working with state agencies you know, finding out you don't want to do something is just as important as finding out that you love it.
Speaker 4:And I've seen, you know younger, you know college students and thinking, yeah, I'm, you know I want to get in marine biology.
Speaker 4:And you know, I think a lot of people have the idea of want to play with flipper and you know, oh, I'm gonna work with sharks or this and that.
Speaker 4:And they found out it's a lot of tank cleaning, it's dirty work, you know, and you know, get to where the the highs SPF or mosquito repellent or whatever, because it might be sensitive to what you're doing and so just dive in.
Speaker 4:Dive in and if it's something that's attractive, you know that there are resources. That's something we're looking to do is building a pipeline not only for labor of the established industry, but also, you know, a pipeline of people looking to get in to gain that experience, whether it be, you know what I just want to work on the water, I just want to be a tech, or, you know, I want to manage a farm, or I want to own a farm. Or also throw in the fact that people on an academic track I think it's valuable that they gain experience in the industry or any commercial industry adjacent to their field, because they'll have that experience to fall back on and then, as they're producing their own research and you know they're a PI or a major grant they'll remember okay, you know it's industry driven, it's not, you know, let's see how pretty we can make this, or could we change the color on that? Or it's actually industry driven research. So I feel like that's as valuable, as you know someone who actually wants to get in and do the work.
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Speaker 2:I'm interested in hearing kind of the difference between, you know, the New England oysters and the Florida oysters in terms of what issues and unique challenges are faced. Right, because we have done an interview with Geordie St John who owns Merritt Island oysters, who gave an, you know, an interesting take on things. But I like to think that Florida is known for its hurricanes and hot waters, so what unique challenges are faced?
Speaker 3:And are the different species, literally north and south.
Speaker 4:Well, west coast is different species but yeah, I, all the way from Mexico up to Canada is all the eastern oyster, crustacea, virginica, and as a one to one comparison, I'd be kind of pressed to sit there and say A, b and C because again to me they're estuary dependent and you know, you might have two northeastern or two gulf oysters from different estuaries that might be drastically different. With the warmer waters there's a given take. I mean the give is, you know, we have exceptional grow out times, which is wonderful. The take is kind of twofold. One, the storms obviously are liability, but the implication that you know, oh, it's warmer water, so it's more you know bacteria, what have you? You know, kind of going back to you know state of Florida and the hot regulation, that should be a minimal concern, to be honest, I mean, just because it's so highly regulated. Now I mean, is there an off chance that something can fall through the cracks? Absolutely, there's no foolproof way. But due to the traceability and folks like us that want to add to that traceability, whether it be utilizing local genetics or just you know, a higher level of, you know, transparency and tracking of data, you know, I feel like that concern is mitigated and then it comes down to also, I mean, what do you like? You know some people like a certain size of moisture, you know. So you know you have the individual, I guess subjective. You know characteristics of what people like as well.
Speaker 4:So, but to talk about the main issue, you know storms kind of goes back to, you know, workforce development. I recently gave a sound bike to we are aquaculture for an article on a diet and you got to have the hands. I mean, you can have a 300 page business plan with you know 20 pages of storm preparedness SOPs, but you don't have the people to execute it before and after. It's kind of useless, you know. So it comes back to, you know, workforce development and creating that talent pipeline to supplement and scale the industry as a whole. It doesn't come down to oh, we have two new farmhands, we're going to produce more oysters. It's those mitigation practices as well. So yeah, I mean I'll tell people. It's not a question of if, it's when. And that also lends itself that thought process, lends itself to why we are multi-site.
Speaker 4:You know, looking at storms and the history and the records of the storms that hit the Gulf, you know a diet is like one of the first ones major storm that's hit the big bend area, if I'm correct. Please fact check me on that. I don't want to be the authority on hurricanes, but that was my understanding. And then you know Michael had recently hit Appalachicola and you know Sally had hit Pensacola a few years ago. So it will happen. The question is is how prepared are you and do you have the resources at hand to properly mitigate? You know we use some pre-rugged gear that's actually sinkable. So you know being able to sink your gear is a great storm preparedness tactic. However, it's not so easy to pull them up, so you need some hands and it goes back to the workforce development.
Speaker 3:So I want to just build up that little. So, with the changing climate patterns, how is the future of the industry looking then?
Speaker 4:I think we're still learning that. I don't feel like anyone has an answer on how and to what degree the industry will be affected. I feel like we as humans are expediting the cyclical process, but I don't feel like it's anything unnatural if that makes sense. I'm not belittling climate change by any means, but I feel like there is a natural cycle to it and I kind of always fall back on the notion that oysters have been around for a long time. They've been, you know, naturally conditioned to withstand the seasonalities and the influxes of the seasons. So as long as the change doesn't occur too rapidly, I feel like there will be a natural response within the species to continue propagating and surviving.
Speaker 4:You know, oysters are extremely hardy species and I could be put in a cooler for a week without food or water or oxygen, you know and survive. So I mean, in a way they're a little harder than I am. So, yeah, I mean I feel like, you know, the industry is gaining traction here on the Gulf. I mean, obviously it's large in the East Coast, but in terms of how climate change will affect it, I think the jury's still out. We'll just have to see, and it be adaptable.
Speaker 3:And you sort of hinted to this. You said that you guys were sinking equipment. Just give our listeners a better idea of like under the ocean surface, like how much of a churn do these storms generate? Or is it untouched underneath and everything's just happening on top of the water?
Speaker 4:Well, so here in Pensacola we are not allowed to grow on the bottom. We're considered Gulf sturgeon critical habitat, which is protected species, so we don't grow on the bottom. Everything is in the water column. The gear that we use, we use oyster grow. They have pontoons on the cages, so really it's simple. It's open in a cap and fill them with water. Just in flipping them over to sit up above the muck, they're weighed down with the product and tethered, obviously with the lines that are attached to them.
Speaker 4:And, being the fact that we're not in open Gulf, we're in the base system where you know, in terms of even if a direct hit, there's still some buffer from that raw energy inshore, so we're not taking full on force of the storm. You know we have the barrier islands and then, of course, inshore from there, but yeah, you know, still there is. There still is energy and you know you have busted pylons and during Hurricane Sally there were barges ping ponging around the, around the bay, so that that actually caused more destruction than I believe the natural energy. Again, don't quote me on that because I do not want to get tied up into that mess. But yeah, you know there's a lot of factors at play. But yeah, I mean again, it's mitigating, it's not, it's not bulletproof, you know so. Anytime you're dealing with you know farming again, terrestrial or marine, you're dealing with those components.
Speaker 2:So if a person is trying to start a oyster farm, right, they would contact Florida Oyster Trading Company and basically you would not only supply them seed but you could also supply them with guidance how many oyster growers are there presently in your area and, kind of, how do you envision the future of that? How difficult is it to find a location in the first place?
Speaker 4:Well, the permitting process is probably the initial and I hate to say barrier because it's not. It doesn't prohibit you from getting started, it's just it adds to that startup time. You know a proposed site you know can take anywhere from, you know, six to 12 months. You know I mean it's getting everything right out of the box with, you know, your application in the site. They'll do it in person review, looking at the site to ensure there's no seagrass or, you know, current beds or historical beds there, and then you'll have a survey company come out and map. It then goes before the governor's cabinet for final approval after public comments. It's a process to get started.
Speaker 4:Then that's the permitting aspect.
Speaker 4:And then you know obviously there's seed needs throughout the Gulf and you know we're looking to answer that from a local standpoint.
Speaker 4:But back to the financial aspect, having the gear to farm it and then be able to float that financially until you know you have crop coming to harvest is a limiting factor as well. So it's not impossible, nor is it easy, I feel. There you know there's opportunities to make the process a little easier and that's what we want to do with the oyster cluster model and, you know, be able to assist with those, including with the labor and you know the subsequent marketing that opportunities that would present itself with. Oh hey, these guys, you know they're doing it this way, they're producing a product, these guys are doing it as well. So kind of almost compartmentalizing those together. But yeah, I mean eventually, if the need is there in other areas, we'd be more happy to franchise the model to where that company is vertically integrated and operating on their own. So there's a lot of there's a lot of opportunity in getting folks started and of course, you know state and academic institutions have provided research and material and classes to help help folks as well.
Speaker 3:So, josh, we've been skirting around this for a while Tell us a little bit more about the economics of all of this.
Speaker 4:The economics in getting started.
Speaker 3:Even where you guys are. You guys are further along. How is sort of funding looking for you guys? Do you have investors Like, how does one find people like that? Are people interested in investing in it?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So that is one of the areas that I previously did not have experience in it's. You know, fundraising. We have an amazing partner, riv Capital LP, based out of Brooklyn. They are our lead equity partner. We do have a great foundation of early investors. That's, honestly what's gotten us to this point, in combination with, with Steward, and so, yeah, we do have traction.
Speaker 4:You know, I always say, you know, it's not if we're going to launch it's, it's, or when we're going to launch it's, it's. You know how quickly the process is expedited and that's how I see the capital raise as almost accelerating the process of. You know, let's build out that, finish building out that first site, it reaching max production capacity, and then let's focusing on these other two sites and then, beyond that, we'll, we'll, we'll begin sourcing additional sites. So you know we have a. We have a, you know, pretty grand plan for the next five to 10 years which will involve outside funding. So you know Lionel Livio, with RIV Capital, he's been an amazing partner with, with helping us.
Speaker 4:We were doing this through limited partnership shares and green bonds. So that is our primary focus and we actually even started off with a green bond. So it's, it's a, it's a convertible note. Right, it's almost like debt. So a limited partnership share is straightforward. Equity share of the company of green bond is a debt note that actually sees a return after the initial seven months but after six years can be converted to a share.
Speaker 4:Probably she'll brought Lionel on to answer these questions. I hope I'm. I hope I'm hitting all the right points. But yeah, so it's a debt note to an individual and of course we're also looking, you know, in search of the right equity partners as well, be that, you know, impact or angel, if we're not too far down the road for that with with the production already being launched. So we're, we're, we're attacking it from several different angles, Kind of refer to it as a three yards in a cloud of dust. I feel like once we have those sales projections based off of the inventory that we've been and are currently producing, we'll start seeing that raise snowball. And we're really focused on the early investors seeing their return, most importantly because of how appreciative we are with with their belief early on when this was concept. So very, very grateful for for our early investors, definitely.
Speaker 2:I tell you what you should do is just go up to every single oyster bar that's in all of Florida. Give them a QR code with the sign that says you want to have oysters for your children, you know, and do a giant crowdfunding campaign.
Speaker 4:There you go. That sounds amazing. Yeah, yeah, definitely I might, I might steal that idea. So cool.
Speaker 3:So, as we get to the end of the interview, josh, any words of advice, for you know people trying to get into this industry or you know, just like even our listeners in general, just how important this is to our future as a whole.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there, there's a certain aspect of you know romanticism to it for me, you know I mean there's that whole hemming way working on the water with your hands and you know, creating something that you know can be enjoyed by others. But you know it's not easy and you know it's got to go past the romanticism aspect of something you really want to be involved in because there's, you know, just like any startup, I mean, there's there's there's high points and low points, and you know being able to being able to stand the pressures and not just, you know, financial and production, but environmental pressures that a lot, of, a lot of companies may or may not have to deal with. So, yeah, perseverance and a little grit go a long ways, and so find out if that's something you're interested in, because it's almost guaranteed to be necessary.
Speaker 3:Nice and you would recommend this right?
Speaker 4:Oh, absolutely, Absolutely.
Speaker 3:I mean any day of the week you like, do it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean I'm you know, I mean we're doing it right. So I mean it'd be kind of weird if I was like I wouldn't suggest anyone get into this. No, no, I think I think it's totally accomplishable. But I mean, again, you know the right mindset, you know.
Speaker 4:I tell people all the time. I think you know you typically don't see folks who play sports or what have you get into biology and but I feel like it's a really perfect fit because I mean you're, you're at practice every day, you're doing the same thing every day, you're building that muscle memory and that's kind of the long lines of farming. I mean you have that same mentality of creating a system and working the system and see your final results. So don't look at it. As you know, I don't want to study biology because that's what I mean. I'm a nerd, so I'll say it. I mean you know that's what is nerdy or what have you. I personally like being a nerd, but also you know there's some physicality to it and I feel like it's for all way shapes and forms.
Speaker 4:And going back to you know the workforce development, you know that's a need that's been told to us by the industry and you know, after digging into it, it's like you know you look at oyster aquaculture and it's predominantly white, male and it's you know. My first question is are we, are we reaching all communities? Are we reaching all demographics? And you know, a lot of the time is no. I mean, just like when I started my journey with uh into biology, I didn't really necessarily know a whole lot about oyster aquaculture and what it was about, so how did I know if it was an option for a career?
Speaker 4:So I feel like you know to help answer the labor needs and to scale the industry by providing those economic opportunities we need to reach out to everyone. So I feel like, in addition to the environmental and the food and the economic boost that this industry can offer, there's also a social component, you know, offering opportunities or exposing folks to opportunities that may have previously not known about it or not been directly approached. What will serve the greater good and I feel like you know that that's one of the missions of the workforce development program is to reach folks in underserved communities that might need that, that economic opportunity. It's just widespread and there's so many ways to contribute to the community, your local community. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's a wonderful, wonderful industry. I would definitely, if it suits your disposition, get into it.
Speaker 2:As we come to our conclusion here and before we ask you where people can find you, at what point in someone's journey should they reach out to you for advice or support or help?
Speaker 4:There's no particular time. I mean there's. You know we're here. Like I said, I've worked with individual growers who are established, worked with, you know, individuals who are interested in getting into the industry and then, through just outreach and marketing the younger generation, you know, because it's never too early, never too early to make decisions and expose yourself to, to, to various opportunities. So, yeah, there's no, there's no one point, tom.
Speaker 2:Well, personally, I'm sitting here thinking, wow, there's a ton of opportunity. I should just get into Oyster Farm. I'm going to, just, you know, make a ton of money, crush it. So where can people find you and read more about what you guys are working on?
Speaker 4:Our website, floystertradingcocom. You know I'm fairly active on LinkedIn. Feel free to reach me there. Matter of fact, that's where a lot of the partnerships that we've developed have started. Ironically enough, I mean, I don't have a whole lot of friends in Australia before that partnership, so I had to be. It had to be some sort of global medium. So, yeah, yeah, those two ways email JTNESETFLOysterTradingCocom. I'm like to meet as many opportunities as possible, so feel free.
Speaker 3:Awesome, that was great talking to you. Thanks for being on the show, josh Best of luck.
Speaker 4:Thank you all so much. Appreciate it.