Fabulous Film & Friends
A podcast for the true cineaste. This podcast examines the impact great or memorable films have on us both personally and culturally. If you've ever bonded with someone or joined a lively discussion circle based on your love of cinema, this is the podcast for you.
Fabulous Film & Friends
Ep. # 100 - The TOP 3 Comedies of ALL TIME- This is Spinal Tap, Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Raising Arizona
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Welcome to the monumental 100th Episode of Fabulous Film and Friends where we are going to discuss the TOP 3 Comedies of ALL TIME in this podcast host’s estimation. We’re talking about 1984’s Spinal Tap directed by Rob Reiner, starring Michael McKean, Christopher Guest, Harry Shearer, Tony Hendra, June Chadwick and Bruno Kirby then 1985’s Pee Wee’s Big Adventure, starring Paul Ruebens, Elizabeth Daly, Mark Holton, Jan Hooks, Diane Salinger, Morgan Fairchild and James Brolin topped off with 1987’s Raising Arizona Directed by Joel and Ethan Coen starring Nicholas Cage, Holly Hunter, John Goodman, William Forsythe, Frances McDormand, Sam McMurray and Trey Wilson.
I have an action-packed line up of guests starting with Kid sis and frustrated roadie Roseanne Caputi, children’s book author dentist and dance king David Johnson, DMD, author, producer and gadfly George Young, musician, editor burrito and pastry lover Kendrick Wright, author, hypnotherapist, teacher and musical theater aficionado Joe Field and our very own Gordon Alex Robertson letting it all go wild.
Before we commence with the back-clapping and drinks on me at the Moulin Rouge, the synopses:
Spinal Tap (1984):
A rock mockumentary following the fictional British heavy metal band Spinal Tap, chronicling their disastrous American tour after a failed album six years ago. The tour forces them to come face-to-face with their age, egos, dwindling fame, and their crumbling careers.
Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure (1985):
The madcap Pee-Wee Herman embarks on a desperate cross-country journey to find his stolen bicycle, encountering a cadre of zany characters and bizarre situations along the way.
Raising Arizona (1987):
H.I. McDunnough, an ex-con with a passion for robbing convenience stores and his police officer wife, Ed short for Edwina, are unable to conceive. When unpainted furniture kingpin Nathan Arizona’s wife gives birth to quintuplets, HI and Ed kidnap one of the babies, leading to a chaotic and life-changing, one might say life-affirming, series of events.
Are these the greatest comedies of all time?
Find out!
Watch the podcast on Youtube!
https://youtu.be/RE3Zn6iEB_o
And now it's time for Fabulous Filman Friends. Welcome to the monumental 100th episode of Fabulous Filman Friends, where we are going to discuss the top three comedies of all time in this podcast posttimation. We're talking about 1984 Spinal Tap, directed by Rob Reiner, starring Michael McKean, Christopher Guest, Harry Shareer, Tony Hendra, June Hadwick, and Bruno Kirby. Then we zoom on to 1985 TV Cventures, starring Paul Rubin, Steph Daly, Mark Olton, and Diane Stallinger, Morgan Fairchild, and James Growlithe. Toped off 1987 Raising Arizona, directed by Joel and Ethan Tellen, starring Nicholas Cage, Holly Hunter, John Goodman, William Fortsight, Francis McDonald, Sam McMurray, and Dre Will. I have an action-packed lineup of guests starting with my kids and frustrated Rhodie, Rosane Hooty, IT Tech, and Lion Wrestler, I don't know, Bert Brown, musician, editor, burrito, and pastry lover Kendrick Wright, author, hypnotherapist, teacher, and musical theater aficionado Joe Field, and our very special guest tonight, the screenwriter of such sizzling thrillers as Jagged Edge, Basic Instinct, Sliver, and Showgirls, the one and only Joe Esterhaas. Welcome, Mr. Esterhaas. Oh wait, oh wait, no, no, my mistake. That's our own Gordon Alex Robertson letting it all go wild. Shaggy Alex, warm us up with your impression of a vicious man bear chewing on old Dan Haggerty's left foot.
SPEAKER_00You don't want to get caught up with a guy like me, Grizzly Adams. I'm a rebel, a loner.
SPEAKER_06Worth that to pop here, honey. There you go. Thank you. Before we commence with the backclapping and drinks on me at the Moulin Rouge, the synopsis. Spinal tap, a rockumentary, or mockumentary, if you will, following the fictional British heavy metal band Spinal Tap, chronicles their disastrous American tour after failed albums six years ago. Their tour forces them to come face to face with their 82 fame in their troubling career. Dewey Big Adventure, the Mad Cap T. Herman embarks on a desperate prospect of journey to find his own bicycle, encountering a cadre of 80 characters with bizarre situations. A tie McDonough, next Tom of the fashion for robbing convenience stores, and his police officer wife, Ed, short Fred Wiener, are enabled to. When unpainted furniture king makes Arizona's wife gives birth to Quinn Couplets, I and Ed kidnap one of the babies, leading to a chaotic and life-changing, one might say, life-performing series events. Okay, am I right, everyone? Let's are these the top three comedies of all time? Do you dispute this? Let's find out. Alright. Uh going around the room after okay, well, I'll go first just to set some some the groundwork or set the uh parameters. I've seen these movies a lot, probably 20 to 30 times each, I think. I've seen them a lot. So with the most recent viewing, which I mean, where I practically know all the dialogue of all the films, like the back of my hand, which, and if it's the same for you, which film do you find the funniest? Even though if you've seen them a lot like I have, which one still makes you laugh? Alex Robinson, you're up first. Raising Arizona. Bert, thoughts?
SPEAKER_04Number one, uh, the one that makes me laugh the most is Raising Arizona.
SPEAKER_02Kendrick Wright. Probably say Given's Dig Adventure.
SPEAKER_06Not a bad answer, not a bad answer. Joe Field? I would go with Gamley's Dig Adventure as well. And last but not least, Roseanne Capuoti.
SPEAKER_07I thought you were going first to set the groundwork.
SPEAKER_06Well, I set the groundwork. I give the pre- I gave the parameters. What did you find funniest this on this viewing? And I can attest for my viewing or listening and viewing audience. Roseanne has seen these films probably as much, or if not more, than I have. So spinal tap. Spinal tap. Interesting. Who left the who wait, who left the building? Oh, okay, Bert. All right, you're back.
unknownAll right.
SPEAKER_04My camera cuts out.
SPEAKER_06Um, I'm gonna say on this, on this round, uh, Raising Arizona. I laughed the most, you know, without forcing it or telling myself that's funny. You know, there was nobody around, so I didn't force my laugh. Um, it was just me on the sofa watching them. So Raising Arizona just legitimately laughed at the cartoonish antics. Um, followed by Pee-wee and then Spinal Tap. I smil Spinal Tap is all smiles, but I didn't laugh that much. This this viewing. Now, here's the thing about Spinal Tap with me. My brother, Claude, told me about the film before I saw it. So I watched that film expecting to just be on the floor with laughter, and I wasn't, but I bought the film and I like it a lot, and I laugh, and I think it's all hilarious, but I've never really busted a gut at it. I think uh, well, this leads to the next question. I'll I'll I'll shut up for a second. Um of the three films, Rose and Caputi, go through each film. What's the funniest scene in each film?
SPEAKER_07Okay. Uh, let's see. So Spinal Tap. You know, uh this time watching it, I still think them talking about their um, I guess especially because it's all out, them talking about their reviews for their albums is one of the funniest parts in the whole thing. I know it's a smaller part, but I just what day was Spinal Tap created and couldn't God have rested on that day too is an amazing night. And uh all of their reactions are so beautiful. Uh let's see, with Pee-wee, it'll always unfortunately be the exhibit A and cable net sweater. Someone keeps knitting and knitting, it'll always be that meeting. Although again, the Alamo is neck and neck and Madame Ruby and all of it, but I don't know, Alamo and and the meeting with amazing. Something you want to share with the rest of us, Amazing Larry? Um, and then Raising Arizona. Uh let's see. Uh jamma Yodas and shit all over him. I can't maybe that. I just like the maybe the car and maybe the the grocery store. I don't know. That's a very hard question.
SPEAKER_06You gotta pick one though. Just one to take with you.
SPEAKER_07If it was just one, then I wouldn't think these three were the funniest movies ever. If it was okay, so one, then it's get your goddamn keep your goddamn hands off my wife.
SPEAKER_06Funniest scene in the whole movie.
SPEAKER_07I I hate that you essentialized movies like this.
SPEAKER_06It doesn't matter. I'm just I'm just wanting to matter. You have to pick the best scene that the scene you're gonna post on on YouTube. Funniest scene ever.
SPEAKER_07Howdy Kurt. I mean, it doesn't e uh I guess.
SPEAKER_06That's the scene that sold me on the movie. I remember I cracked up at that, and then immediately I was in. Like I didn't know what I was in for. And when he said howdy Kurt, I remember laughing really hard, and then I was into the movie at that point.
SPEAKER_07So I I love Howdy Kurt. I love all the prison stuff. So maybe we ate sand. Fine, we ate sand. There.
SPEAKER_06All right, I'm gonna move on to you, Ken. What's the funniest? Uh no, not not all three. Each each film, which is the funniest? Oh, which is the funniest? Wait, oh, well, I mean I I need to back up uh real quick. Uh do you guys agree with me? Are these the top three of all time? Ken Wright.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, let me weigh in on that, and I would say not really. But how did you come to this? Is that like gross uh gross earnings or like what what would you like to do? No, well that's yeah, no, Chat GBT.
SPEAKER_06I I uh came to be the three films where I laughed the hardest. Spinal tap, I didn't laugh as hard as I wanted to because I knew every joke coming because my brother told me all about it. But I still, when I bought it, over time just laughed. You know, it's just there's just so many gems to appreciate. You just go, yeah, it's great.
SPEAKER_07But you're I think are these three movies the funniest is a more valuable question than the funniest scene in each movie. That's so hard. Well, I I just want to know just want the answer. Okay.
SPEAKER_06Go through. What do you what scene do you just strikes you as the winners? Like that that slays me. That's the the the movie there the scene that proves proves its worth.
SPEAKER_07Like it's Casey Bank. Sorry. Okay.
SPEAKER_06Uh okay, so Ken, so well let me just ask you this one question.
SPEAKER_02So you're you would put all these three above airplane.
SPEAKER_06Yes. Yeah. Top Secret was actually in consideration. I think Top Secret's a much funnier film than Airplane. Um, but yeah, the Zaz Brothers, they don't these films actually have sort of a philosophical, metaphysical purpose where airplanes just gags. That's just gags. So Top Secret's good. It's better than Airplane, but it's it's just they're still just gags. It there's nothing beyond gags. And that's like any movies, like Star Wars or Star Trek the motion picture just being special effects, or you know, some things are just they're they're fine, but they don't have more to it than what they're offering. The whereas these films are not only just great comedies, they're great movies and have a lot to say. That's all. Bert, would you agree that these oh Bert Bert's just phasing in and out of the space-time continuum?
SPEAKER_04I know. My new camera's not all that great.
SPEAKER_06Isn't that the way it is?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Uh, would you agree it's top three comedies of all time, or you just think you're just here for the ride?
SPEAKER_04Uh well, I think Raisin Arizona is up in that level. Um, and Pee Wee's is pretty funny. I had never seen Spinal Tap till you said to watch it. Yeah. And uh and I didn't like it. Oh, I didn't think it was very funny. There were some things that made me laugh. And if you want to do the three favorite scenes or three funniest scenes, it wasn't one specific scene, but every time they showed what you called him, Shearer, I always said sheer, I don't know, Harry. Harry Shearer, the bass player. Yeah. With his big sidebirds and all the and his outfit. Every time I saw him in his outfit, I laughed out loud. I don't know why. When I was in his stage, in his stage outfit.
SPEAKER_06How many times did you so to me? If I laugh solidly three times a movie, it's funny. So Spinal Tap had way more than three solid laughs.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Okay. No, I don't know.
SPEAKER_06I you didn't laugh three times in Spinal Tap?
SPEAKER_04I didn't realize all these what I call famous people were in it, you know, famous at the time. Yeah. And I didn't know what to expect at all. I knew it was some little pretend, you know, movie. Oh. Oh, I'll be back. Um, I I know how to click myself back in. Um I I don't know. I just was watching that one and it I I don't know. The jokes didn't hit me right, I guess. There there was an element of of what I call reality, you know, when they're showing the road and they're showing the stage and they're showing the production and all the stuff that goes in behind the scenes and stuff. I'm like, yeah, that I'm sure that happens. And so they were just making fun of it. But and then the Pee-wee's Big Adventure. I had not seen that in a long time. And uh, but I still remember lines from it because I thought it was funny back then, and then I thought it was funny again. My wife didn't, she goes, This is dumb, but I thought it was funny. My favorite line was deep in the heart of Texas, you know, at the Alamo. That was the that one that was always a bust out, and you laugh a lot at that. And I was like large marge. Come on, how about the Alamo?
SPEAKER_06Remember, I remember the Alamo in the heart of Texas is at the rodeo.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I had mixed up. It is the remember I remember the Alamo.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's all that. There's really good, really good.
SPEAKER_06There's really good chorus and crowd humor in Pee-Wee's Big Adventure. Unstoppable. Like, I don't think anybody's ever topped the use of supporting players to kill the to carry the joke into hilarity.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, no, the Raising Arizona, I always I mean, I laugh a lot, but uh and one thing I quote occasionally is only those two words at the parole board. Okay, then that always makes me laugh. Yeah, so I don't know why, but it does.
SPEAKER_06Well, it's it's funny, especially when the preacher says it.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_06All right, Joe. Uh, what's your experience with these films? You have you seen them a lot?
SPEAKER_05Um, the only one that I'd seen before was Pee Wee's Big Adventure. Oh. Um so for me it was a pretty fresh watch for the other two. And it'd been probably over 10 years since I watched Pee-Wee's Big Adventure. So there were a lot of things that I'd forgotten that I appreciated the second time around.
SPEAKER_06Well, am I wrong? Are they top three of all time?
SPEAKER_05I I wouldn't put them at the top three personally. Um I I would put at least one, maybe even two Mel Brooks movies up there. Um, Young Frankenstein and maybe Blazing Saddles.
SPEAKER_06Um I'm not a big Mel I don't I don't love Mel Brooks. I think he's he's like a little bit, I think he's a little bit higher than the Zaz brothers, but he's he's a joke guy. It's all just jokes. He never has a plot. So it's it's all it's zany, but there's no there's no heart to his film. So I don't I think a good comedy actually works on without having to be funny. So, you know, Spinal Tap and Pee-Wee and and uh um Raising Arizona all work as a plot. They all work as stories of sort of coming to terms with life and and mediocrity and being an oddball. There's actually stories there. Whereas Mel Mel Brooks is sort of, yeah, he's not as obnoxious as the Zaz brothers, but he's he's just gags. His baseballs and men in tights definitely prove like, yeah, he's he's just gags. So that's why he doesn't get better, he got worse. So I think, yeah, he's sort of the he's sort of the bridge between old-time vaudevillian style comedy versus a more complex comedy that started in the 70s through now. And yeah, it's just like yeah, it's just gags, it's jokes. So that's my thought on it. Um, does anybody with Greece? Dispute that? Is Mel Brooks deeper than I give him credit for? Alex, you like Blazing Saddles a bunch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do, and I and I disagree, but I do agree. Uh I I think it does tackle a thorny subject, and it does it in a funny way. And it's a movie that couldn't get made today because of that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. But is it as good as the film's uh wrong or right about it?
SPEAKER_00Personally, personally, I would put um I I would leave um Raising Arizona on that list because it is one of my top favorites, and it just gets better every time I watch it. And I would put blazing saddles in that category. That's one of my tops. I would put it over Pee-wee or Spinal Tap. As much as I enjoyed those two. Blazing saddles? Yes, blazing saddles. Get them, Roseanne.
SPEAKER_06Blazing saddles. Child of the 70s. Yeah, but it's it's just it's it's about racism, but it's only on I think it's a superficial tale of racism, honestly. Well, I'm a superficial kind of guy.
SPEAKER_07The most profound I feel like that movie gets is the pan out with Hitler and things like this. And I like Blazing Saddles, and I love Jung Frankenstein, and I laugh a lot at Young Frankenstein, but I just think it's I'm gonna put it. These are homages with these are homages with great performances.
SPEAKER_00They're not but I could even argue that uh Raising Arizona has a lot of homages to it.
SPEAKER_07Um, you know, I mean, they certainly weren't all movies have some sort of film extra becomes its own thing.
SPEAKER_00But I think that Blazing Sandals became its own thing. Now, maybe young Frankenstein, because he does a good job copying um oh the who was Whaley, the director, the original director of Frankenstein.
SPEAKER_08Frankenstein, yeah.
SPEAKER_00They really got that look. And I think a lot of credit goes to the cinematographer. Um, I can't think of his name right now. He uh uh actually ended up in Ashland, Oregon in his final years. But um, you know, that was a wonderful homage. Anyway, not to get too far off the subject, but that's I'm putting blazing saddles in my top, one of my top comedies. Right up there with uh Raising Arizona, which I think sits, I think sits for me right now, sits at the top. It it it it wears its crown well.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I agree with that. Um I I think Pee-Wee uh is funnier than anything Mel Brooks did for sure.
SPEAKER_00Uh and I've well, but but but I I wouldn't argue, but Pee Wee's a very, you know, it's I don't know if I'd compare those two because there's some uh to use a word that Roseanne said earlier. No, yeah, but to use something that Roseanne said earlier, Pee-Wee has a certain transcendence to it. And the more you watch it, the more you start to peel away, like, yeah, he really was on to something here. I don't know if it's just the combination of Paul Rubens and Tim Burton and uh Phil Hartman.
SPEAKER_07But there is also though, they are they are good. I'm not saying it isn't on. They're Jewish American outsiders experiencing American culture, so I think they're comparable entirely. Well, I think what's interesting about Pee Wee is more successful and joyful, whereas Mel Brooks, for all his gags, is a more cynical person. There's less joy in Mel Brooks than there is in Pee-wee about what it is to be a Jewish American American.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I think Mel Brooks's Semitism does come out. More in Blazing Area. But see, here's the thing is much more subtle. Well, here's the thing. But you think it's more subtle? If you if you take an average movie goer, would they get it? I don't think so. I mean, if I went in with fresh eyes, I wouldn't think, oh, this is a take on Jewish American experience.
SPEAKER_07But his tastes, certainly Jewish, gay, everything that you know, that is just in terms of the Americana.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You think, okay. I I don't know. I mean, that's what he's exposed to.
SPEAKER_06I think he's and but I think Pee-wee's much more successful and not beating you over the head with what he's talking about. For sure. No, he does. Mel Brooks pretty much broadcasts his he's he's throwing, he's throwing fat, juicy cherries at the at the pitcher, at the at the back of his. Yeah, he's the guy with the rubber jokes. Very easy jokes to understand. Whereas Pee Wee's Big Adventure is a much more complex movie about the American experience. And it's it's funnier, it's about like all the things Pee-wee loves are really funny. He loves big breakfasts and malts and tuna platters, and it's all this sort of Americana in mixed with Japan and the sort of growing up in the 50s, it's all there and it's wrapped up in uh sort of message about staying true to yourself, much better than than what Mel Brooks offers. Mel, last time I watched Blazing Saddles is at your house, and I was struck with how obvious everything was. I thought, man, I never realized. I used to love it as a kid because it's funny, but it's not, it's not, it doesn't transcend into a great movie to me. It's just, it's funny, it's gags. But it he's he broadcasts his his message, which I didn't understand as a kid. Like, oh yeah, this is a very obvious film about this subject. You know, he gets Richard Pryor to do it, he to write the screenplay. It's so he gets help and it and it all just it's it's very 70s, sort of, still sort of stuck in the the Johnny Carson era in the Milton Borough era, whereas Pee-Wee he's a he's sort of the the bridge to a new form of the sort of David Letterman era.
SPEAKER_07Pee Wee and Spinal Pap are much more modern in terms of comedy, I would say.
SPEAKER_00Would you say that Pee-Wee's Big Adventure is one of the first baby boomer comedies? Because that's what I get a lot of from from from that. And I mean that in uh in a respectful way. I never thought of it that way. I never thought of it that way.
SPEAKER_06Because of every, you know, just one of the things that's but it's true, it it is sort of turning the father knows best era on its ear, for sure. Yeah, and he you can see how much love for he has for it, and at the same time distorts it.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's the other thing. He he doesn't seem to be mocking those things. I mean, he really goes about it just like his character wide eyed, optimistic. Um, you know, nothing gets him down, even if he's down, he's not down for very Long.
SPEAKER_07And yet, by being that character, he adds this level of absurdity that subverts all these norms in the least offensive, most exciting way. And I feel like that's the that's the modernity. Whereas Mel Brooks is this product of vaudevillian comedy, which again I think has value, but I think doesn't come across in such a significant way.
SPEAKER_00I mean, he was a writer for Sid C's or something. I get it.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. I have a thought upon my heart for Mel Brooks for life. Yeah. But it's a different kind of comedy for sure. And I do just think that that the Pee-wees and the Spinal Tap and Raising Arizona are much more satisfying because the jokes linger as opposed to Mel Brooks's, which are obvious. They rise and they fall at the exact time that you expect them to.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's like Mel Brooks pulls out the rubber chicken, we laugh. There's no slow release. Somehow. Somehow. It's like, okay, that's a very unique take.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's not a throwaway. It it's it's damn and look at look at his his collection of oddballs. They all end up at the end of the film. And he's celebrating all of them.
SPEAKER_08You know, the hobos, the the bikers.
SPEAKER_06The the convicts. Exactly. It's a celebration of everybody.
SPEAKER_07Well, in a way though, and all three, I think, are about uh not or being outsiders and not wanting to be insiders. And I don't know if I believe that about Mel Brooks, that he continues to want to be an outsider. So his celebration of the outsider feels a little bit more counterfeit than I would say these three films.
SPEAKER_06And we were, and I'm fortunately you were bringing up a prior conversation, but I was talking about uh Steve Martin, who's more in the Milton Burrow. He's not Steve Martin's a big stupid egomaniac. So his films can be funny, but ultimately he's serving himself. Where Pee Wee Herman doesn't. Pee Wee Herman isn't really like the total hero all the time. And he so he's much better at comedy because he doesn't make you go, oh, so this is all just in service of how awesome you are, you know. And that's that Mel Brooks is still Brooks is still sort of that, and he really proves it in space ball. But anyway, we should if we were gonna talk about Mel Brooks, we should have brought him. We should have done Blazing Satellites.
SPEAKER_07It should be Joe's three favorite scenes, is where we're anyway.
SPEAKER_06We just little, but again, we had to talk about why are these the three greatest comedies of all of all time, and I say yes. Uh, but anyway, let's you're getting some pushback. Getting some pushback.
SPEAKER_07That's fine. That's fine.
SPEAKER_06Uh so who agrees with me? Roseanne, do you agree with me? I do.
SPEAKER_03So me and Roseanne gets you four mugs. It's that veil water.
SPEAKER_06Well, all right, but anyway, that's not the discussion. So I guess we can't. Well, we can keep discussing, I suppose. I mean, I don't care how this goes. Uh, I say they're the funniest because they're they're solidly funny and tell a story without without only relying on gags. And that's that's my my that's my criteria for a good comedy. And they're rare. They're films like that are rare. Most comedies do just rely on gags and and slapstick. Um, so Ken, what's what's your thought?
SPEAKER_02Well well, well, I was gonna agree with you that um the majority of comedies are not that interesting, really. They are just superficial. It's like, here's the joke, we've done the joke, and let's go on to the next funny, or you know, the next setup. Um and I think that's very superficial. So I'm not a big fan of like the Tommy Boy movies or the early Steve Martin movies. Now I will say that I think Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, he he's he really toned it down. I think that's a really good comedy, and that is a hard felt comedy. So I think things, you know, that's what that's what makes a good comedy, even something like um uh Groundhog Day. Um so I think there are other movies that have the full movie.
SPEAKER_06Oh, Groundhog's Day is great for sure. That would be like three, like four, five, six, you know, whatever the next tier of great of all times are. Groundhog day for sure. Uh Plains Trains and Automobiles, I watched recently, it didn't hold up. It's really mawkish. I just thought it was mawkish and not as funny as I remembered. It and and again, my wife for a while. My wife's good sense doesn't lie. She wasn't interested. She goes, This is kind of corny. And I went, Yeah, it is. I didn't, I mean, I knew it had a little bit of mockishness, even when I first saw it, but it didn't hold up. I was like, okay, it's it's fine, but it's not an all-timer. Like, better and better as it is.
SPEAKER_02How about what? No, I'll give you one of my favorite concepts.
SPEAKER_06Oh, don't say the fucking Apple Dunklin gang. No, smoking the bandit. Oh, here it comes. Smoking the bandit. Oh, no, smoking the bandit.
SPEAKER_02I will put smoking the bandit up there. Absolutely. I will put that at the top. However, also to say Rush War. Rush War, I think, is a great personality. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I think. Yeah, for sure. We already did one thing. I can't, it's it's up there, but I can't discuss it because we already discussed it on the show. Yeah, I love Rushmore, but it's not top three. It's it's again, I'd say it's third tier after, you know, maybe maybe second. Second tier. Second tier, possibly, but I like the life aquatic the most of the West Anderson. Oh, yeah. I love the life. I thought life aquatic was one of those films where I was just laughing all the way through. Um, so but we're talking about these films from for my hundredth episode. So we're um it's my show, yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER_07And guess what?
SPEAKER_06I want exactly a new brain. All right, so let's go back to favorite scenes. That's Joe. That's what I did. Joe, favorite scenes in each.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Uh for spinal tap. I had two, but but one that I liked, it was just really just a visual gag was when they're on stage and he starts playing his guitar with a violin and then adjusts the key of the violin as he's playing. Um, which to me is just like a hilarious, just but I think could be overlooked kind of moment. Um for count raising Arizona, um, having the uh old timer count backwards.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's it. You know, it's funny when you when you watch that scene, he really did get get to 850, I think. Because when they're coming back, he's counting down. Yeah, so it's like he really did it. Got over halfway there.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And Pee Wee, what was Pee-Wee's best scene?
SPEAKER_05Uh I I have to go all also with how do you know that you're in Texas? Um living here, it just makes it even funnier for me.
SPEAKER_08So all right.
SPEAKER_06Uh who I we got, Ken, did we get your favorite scenes from each film?
SPEAKER_02No, uh, I haven't gotten those. Although I am famously have a poor memory, but I will say that the thing that I laughed most at in Peewee was the uh uh I don't remember anything. Well, what do you remember? I remember the album. Um and I also like the very beginning, you know, just the dream where he's just he's there's the Tour de France cyclist and he's just tooling right along. I thought that was a really good gag. Um and then for uh Spinal Tap, I mean, I don't know if this is cliche or not, but um, when they're coming out of the cocoons and you said mine, yeah.
SPEAKER_06That that still makes me laugh. I laugh the hardest this time, even though I know it's coming, that's the scene. When he pumps, when he pumps his fist when he gets stuck in it, that's just comedy gold. It's so funny. Like every time I see it, it's the funniest gag, especially with the roadie setting fire with the low torch. It's too good. Yeah, that's that's because it does. I feel that scene doesn't get enough love because everybody says, oh, this one goes to 11 and all, and I'm like, yeah, but rock and roll creation is funny right through. Like they're playing the song. I love how uh Michael McKeon and they keep talking to each other and you know, like it's live and they're trying to roll with it, but they got this guy hammering on hammering on the thing. It's just calm, it's like a the it just keeps building to pure hilarity with the perfect topper with the with the fist pump. It's just great. So, yeah, that's my favorite scenes by that. Uh did you say Raising Arizona? Oh, yeah. The old guy counting down. Oh, that was Joe's.
SPEAKER_05That was Joe.
SPEAKER_06Talking about poor memory.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, so Raising Arizona, I have a hard time with. Um, like a lot of, I mean, obviously, like a lot of good scenes, like it's the one I saw is the furthest to go, and so I can't like they don't come right to my memory. Um, but I liked um like I remember just uh John Goodman, like I the scenes that he was in, I just loved what he was doing, um, and just bringing that um not menace, but you know, that sort of like general menace.
SPEAKER_07No, there's menace for sure. Yeah, coming out of the earth. Yeah, wailing.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Alex? Yes. You you know, I know you love these films, even if they they don't measure up to so favorite scenes in each one.
SPEAKER_00Um Spinal Tap, it's it's got to be the Stonehenge scene. And I think what I love about it is we see the gag coming when he shows his little drawing, and you notice it, it's like 13 inches, you know, but they just play it straight, they play it through, and that thing comes down and the dwarfs come out. I mean, it really does go after just the grandiose, you know, um self-indulgent uh of um attitudes of these rock stars where everything has to be so big because apparently they said it was making fun of Led Zeppelin, one of their shows, just big stone hinge everywhere. You know, it just has to be massive and huge. It's like every time the Rolling Stones go on the road, it's gotta be big, it's gotta be huge, and you kind of lose sight of the music after a while. Um, but the that kind of brought it back to the music, you know.
SPEAKER_07But that's we did shout out really fast Angelica Houston in this movie. Like she's so funny in that ones.
SPEAKER_08I was just not kidding. She's 18 inches, I'm just not getting it.
SPEAKER_00She's got the receipt, you know.
SPEAKER_07Yes, and I think she later, I I think she's an underrated comedic actress, honestly, especially work she does in Wes Anderson's movies. And so to see her in this like funny, teeny little scene, I just love anyway. Sorry to step on it. That's okay.
SPEAKER_00No, that's funny. Uh so Pee-wee, um the scenes with Mickey, it's the roadblock just cracks me up. I mean, it just gets funnier and funnier. And even even with that uh, you know, that old cliche of him looking over at Pee-Wee in the dress, it's still just and the more you read about that scene, how Paul Rubin based that on his sister, her look and her demeanor. But it is, I mean, it is such comic gold.
SPEAKER_06And it's a talk about talk about Milton Burl, it is a throwback to Bugs Bunny. So it is a it's like a Bugs Bunny gag, but it's it's well, both films raising her all three films. No, they're both well, all three films excel at casting the right old timers and schmoes. So you got that big fat cop. I just want to do that pretty little outfit you have on. It just gets funnier and funnier.
SPEAKER_07Plus the fact Mickey's hilarious 50s goatee or early 60s goatee in his glasses, the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00Looks like a twisted Leon Trotsky, you know. But even just his reaction.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, no, it's college gold.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so and then raising Arizona. Well, it ain't Ozzy and Harriet. When he grabs the huggies, it is the perfect punchline to a great joke, starting with uh, wake up, son, I'll be taking these here huggies and whatever you got in the register. That scene looks whitey reading the Jugs Magazine and Whitey with oversized hand cannon, you know, yeah, like a 44. And I I've said this before, but I mean, when I saw that in the theaters, I didn't know what to go into expecting it. And I'll never forget when he grabs the huggies, the whole theater just erupts in applause. I mean, that was yeah, that was a wonderful time, '87. It really was. It was like, uh, I'm I'm home, you know. Yeah, but that if there was any doubt, that was the scene where it was like, okay, this is without a doubt one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. And it's it's not even over. We got one, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_06It gets funnier and it gets funnier. Raising Arizona, I we saw it on video at a friend's house, Roseanne and I. And uh that I remember not really wanting to see it because it was an independent film, and I didn't like that at my in my 17-year-old mindset. It was like, I don't, I don't really want to see this. So I was sort of sitting down, sort of impatient, and I immediately again, howdy Kurt immediately started cracking up. And that film, I think, consistently, we were all just laughing, like explosions of laughter in that room. We had a pretty big crowd, as we were like a dinner party, we watched it. And back in the good old 80s when we would pop a V8 VHS in, and everybody sat around and watched it. Um and uh yeah, I just think it's I even still I always think of that was one of the most, the hardest I've ever laughed at a film. And Pee Wee's Big Adventure, same thing. I didn't see it in the theaters because mainly because it came and went, because nobody knew what to make of it. I wanted to see it because I I knew of uh Pee Wee Herman from David Letterman. But yeah, so Pee Wee's Big Adventure, that was not like, oh, it just like it surprised me. I knew all about Pee-Wee Herman because he he I knew him as a comedian, so I was ready for it, wanted to see it. And of course, we're in Vale, Oregon, it came and or Ontario, Oregon, it came and went. I'm I remember my classmate Chad Lucart, if you're listening, he was like, that is the dumbest movie. Adults acting like kids, and that is just so stupid, you know. And I was like, I liked it. You know, I liked it a lot. Anyway, uh, so that one, but I I I felt it would be funny, but the reviews, Cisco and Ebert and everybody, they were pretty down on it. Leonard Moulton, all the reviewers at the time, they were like, eh, it's okay, it's kind of funny, whatever.
SPEAKER_00But Cisco gave it zero stars. Yeah, I they were all they were all down on it.
SPEAKER_06And I so I didn't think it was that good. So we rent it, and we were, I remember watching my friend Dan Bennett and and Roseanne. We were we were cracking up. I was cracking up. Um, I'm gonna say so. Let me just go through the scenes. The scenes that I still just thrilled to. John Goodman with the chicken. Is she? Think about it, H.I. seems to be you're not being true to your nature. Hilarious. That whole entire scene is one of the funniest, most brilliantly written scenes in all of cinema history, I think. That with him talking HI into, well, you know, I think she just, oh, she's a fine woman, but I think she needs one of them button-down type. Oh, I don't really think that that's in here, you know. The whole thing is just so fun. It's cartoonish and deep at the same time, as it as this demon basically tells High, get back into a life of crime with us. And it's looks like a hazy bank. Tell the truth, it is a hazy bank. So funny. Like, just the best, one of the best, the most crisply written scenes ever. So that's my favorite in raising Amazon. Pee-wee is Tina. Like the first time when she came in with that smile, when Jan Hooks busts in, are there any Mexican Americans here today? And I I mean I may be wrong, but I always thought Pee Wee raised his hand. But it's I think it's just I just think it's the camera angle.
SPEAKER_07Next to him.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but it's still in my my first impression was Pee-wee raised his hand, and he's like looking so bored, like, yeah. So I but the whole thing just had me in tears. Like I was laughing so hard because I didn't know who Jan Hooks was, you know, until then like two years later, she showed up on Sunday Night Live.
SPEAKER_07But well, the fact that it goes just down the line. Inez has a that she seems very proud of in Glaze.
SPEAKER_08It's awesome, it's so funny.
SPEAKER_06There's no basement in the animal, then the old Charlie Brown gag again, the Charlie Brown gag of everybody laughing and out of there. It's just so funny. Like just perfect comedy in that whole scene. Uh and Spinal Tap, I I don't remember laughing as hard. So that's one of those films that the all the comedy sneaks up on me. So, but so this time it was rock and roll creation. Um, I think the first time it was Nigel Tufnell just throwing a fit over the the hors d'oeuvres. That was the funniest thing I'd seen. Like it's still a hilarious scene. So uh I've often mused, told Roseanne about this, that I think I should do a podcast about the the un the what's the word, Roseanne? The unappreciated, underappreciated genius of Michael McKeon. So I think he carries spinal tap, and I think he's one of these actors who's always freaking awesome in no matter what he's in.
SPEAKER_07Well, if you were comparing all three films, and if you were doing your usual, like who is the best lead, it would be really tricky, obviously, because he we can't do it. Can't do it. You can't do it. So you actually really have to talk about each one individually because they each create this world, and a lot should it's insane that it's Nicolas Cage. Like, I look at Nicolas Cage now, and though he's still like a compelling performer and and an interesting guy, I it's him creating H. Kai McDonough is a different level to what he does now, obviously.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Um well, I think the bonehead films he did got to him.
SPEAKER_07How could they not?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, Conair and all that shit, and it's just national treasure and yeah, I think he dulled it dulled his edge considerably.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um I mean, I I wish he was here to tell us about it, but like why why have you never okay? But adaptation, which is probably up there, you know, on at least re routing up the top 10. I love adaptation and he's awesome in it. So I I don't know uh if it's completely gone, but he just doesn't tap into it much.
SPEAKER_07Maybe he doesn't tap into it much, and maybe people don't expect him to. So I again, I don't know. And Pee Wee is such a different thing because he it legitimately is his alter ego. And to it is performance art in so many ways. So that's this whole different level. So the I I don't know. So if you were looking at those three performances, I you could say everything about them, and yet I they're not con you can't compare them.
SPEAKER_06Well, let's get the let's get the tables, the round table's opinions. Ken, start with you. What who's your favorite performer of the three? And not not in spite of the opinion of the three movies. Who who do you think did the best job?
SPEAKER_02Um, I would have to give it to Pee V Herman, just because he did create that entire, you know, uh he's a unique, he's a unique individual. Like there's nobody else like Pee Wee Herman, and he manufactured it out of nothing. And I think it's just an amazing um, you know, creation.
SPEAKER_06Bert, do you have uh thoughts on it?
SPEAKER_04Well only because I think raising Arizona is funnier, I would select Nicolas Cage. Uh watching it this time, I don't know. Uh it was funny to watch him so young, and I don't know, there was just a difference about him. You guys talk about it a little bit uh with his different movies he's done since then. Um, but this one is just I don't know, it's classic. It's like and I've said it before, I think on this podcast that this was the first movie I ever bought on VHS was raised in Arizona.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um it's like uh I remember buying it, but in Payless Drugstore.
SPEAKER_06Do you still remember the price code on it?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no. I do remember the code, I do remember the pattern, but I don't remember how much it was.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, you just to fill you guys in, we could determine how much the the cost of something was based on the code, so how much profit they were making off of it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because we uh well plus we got cost plus 10%, so whatever we So I'd know that I had to pay 10% more. Yeah. But that one, I don't know. He just he's just really funny.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but don't you think see a do you not see a kindred spirit in Pee Wee with Nicholas Cage's? Because I do. I feel like if they're like Pee Wee Pee Wee's. Yeah, that's true. You know, look at look at him under the look at him under the truck. The car, right? Text cop pulls him, he's he's grabbing on his guy. Michael Scage's twitching eye. It's so funny. He looks just like a cartoon. Like in this hilarious sight gag.
SPEAKER_04He's definitely Wily Coyote that whole thing.
SPEAKER_06It's pure Bugs Bunny and it's still fun. Even the grenade at the end is Wiley Coyote.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_07Well, he has a roadrunner for a reason.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's actually, yeah, that's Mr. Horsepower. There's a funny story behind that. I'm ready. Well, you don't see it in Spinal Tap, but you know, Spinal Tap's ongoing appearances. Nigel Tufnell had a special guitar made with the Mr. Horsepower insignia on it. So I thought, oh, there's a nice little connection there. It's not in the movie, but you can look it up. You can look up Nigel Tufnell Mr. Horsepower guitar. Uh it's quite a creation. Uh very Nigel Tufnell. Instead of going up to 11, it's got like 16 pickups on it or something. It's like this, just this monstrosity. But anyway, I digress.
SPEAKER_03Well, the bass player had that dual bass, which was kind of over the top. I've seen dual guitars before, never a dual bass. Just in case. Oh, I've seen dual basses.
SPEAKER_02I've seen a dual bass in concert. It was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think it's brilliant that fat bottom girl. No, it's it's uh not fat bats. I'm thinking of Queen, but uh what what what is that song? Big bottom big bottom and I noticed it for the first time. They're all playing bass. There is no guitar in that song, it's just got that low thudding sound, and it works. It's like it might be funny. Well, we're talking acting to the music, but let's talk about it.
SPEAKER_06We need to talk about it. The the songs are pretty good, they're not stupid.
SPEAKER_07No, they're they're perfectly they're perfectly stupid. That's what's so amazing, and that's a big reason why. Well, first of all, while Michael McKeon is my number one, even though Pee-Wee is life, Pee-wee is you know, part of me, whatever. But uh Michael McKeon's performance, all of them, the fact that they're singing, playing, they wrote these songs that are just dumb enough to where you're like, silo is rising, like all their stupid sections.
SPEAKER_06No, no, the lyric, the lyrics are hilarious, but but rocket creation creation sounds good. Stonehenge and rock and roll creation sound good. They sound good. Great.
SPEAKER_07They I love that they actually shine a light on Led Zeppelin's bullshit. Yeah, which is what they deserve.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, when Burton mentioned the yeah, the when Burton mentioned the I'm sorry, you you I'm so excited, Roseanne. You talk I get it.
SPEAKER_08No, no, who was that? I'm only key in all of it for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, good. But that thing that oh well, well, Burton, you know, the whole thing with uh Nigel playing the guitar with the violin. I mean, that was a direct nod to Jimmy Page, who would play with a bow. You'd see him on stage with the big bow, you know, going up and down with his low-strung guitars, only Jimmy Page can do, making his god-awful noise that he always seemed to pull off.
SPEAKER_07But I think with the fact that they do that without seeming over the top is amazing.
SPEAKER_00Well, and they make it their own. Yeah, I think it's the key. Yeah, right. And just like with the songs. Well, we're getting into it here. Yeah, yeah. Go, go. Well, no, but just how keen they are to the different eras. So when you listen to uh listen to what not only that, they nail it, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Not only that, Rob Reiner and when Rob Reiner could make a movie, they film it perfectly. So it's it doesn't look like the stupid fake creations you see today, it looks like decent found footage. So when they have stop looking listen, you know what I want. Give me some money.
SPEAKER_07Okay, and for the record, even though Christopher Guest is doing hilarious work in each one of them, Michael McKeon is so deeply rooted in that character. He just comes across as that guy every single time. And his hair gets more and more fucking stupid, and it's amazing.
SPEAKER_06He's awesome.
SPEAKER_07He is undoubtedly.
SPEAKER_06Let's let Joe chime in. Joe, uh, what do you got in terms of favorite performances? Is it well go go for it?
SPEAKER_05I mean, it is challenging because they're all three such different movies, but I I really like Pee-Wee Herman. Um, I I think there's a I mean, as good as all the other performances are, I've I kind of ask, like, could you theoretically slot in another actor there? And would it work? No, yeah. And you 100%, at least for Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, the answer is no. Um, like it he is that character.
SPEAKER_06But one of the auditiones for uh Raising Air Zone was Kevin Costner, who was bummed he didn't get the part. So can you imagine Kevin Costner in that part?
SPEAKER_00Did I know then? I didn't it's been coming up, it's been coming up as of late. Huh? Uh I read it years ago.
SPEAKER_06I read it back in when I had Premier Magazine.
SPEAKER_00I just found out about it myself in the last week. And a couple of guys were talking about how, you know, he sounds an awful lot like a Kevin Costner type character, Nicholas Cage. And then they brought up the fact that I think he'd auditioned three times for H.I. McDonough, Kevin Costner. So he was he was in the running, yeah. Yeah, but thank goodness. Well, who who knows?
SPEAKER_02I mean, well, no, I'd be I'd be curious, yeah. I'd be curious to see what he would do because we we didn't necessarily expect a lot from Nick Cage. I mean, certainly from his subsequent work, he surprised me.
SPEAKER_07Anyone who didn't like Valley Girl maybe didn't.
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, no, no, no. Ken wasn't aware about it. We've got to talk about Valley Girl.
SPEAKER_06He was really Jack and the Box Cracker Jacks at Smokey and the Bandit.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Ken, at some point, we're gonna do Smoking the Bandit. I promise you. Okay, okay. That'd be awesome. It would be. I mean the Smoky and the Bandit trilogy.
SPEAKER_00Don't go that far.
SPEAKER_07I think you're right about Pee-wee. He is almost like, you know, jazz or something, like this American, perfectly uniquely American creation that couldn't exist without like the perfect barometric pressure of culture before and after. And I think not only in this movie, but just as like an American comedian and icon, I think he's irreplaceable. So I think to me, I guess he I agree. I mean, I I'd love Michael McKeon in these three, but I just think Pee Wee's so much bigger than just these three movies, in a way. Um so I maybe that's how I think of it.
SPEAKER_06I agree, I agree. But in terms of in terms of uh just sheer like commitment, I I well I'd say Michael McKeon is equal to Pee-Wee, you know?
SPEAKER_07Like they're both creating alternate personality.
SPEAKER_06I mean, it's hard to take away from Harry Shearer and um for sure and Christopher Guest. Christopher Guest, because they're but Michael McKeon has a force of energy that the more I watch the film, the more I think, yeah, he should have. If the 80s were a sensible time and we weren't adulating such horseshit as Gandhi and on Golden Pond, in a in a stronger, like with again, that was the old days, right? So those bullshit movies that nobody really liked. Uh came well, that's that's always been the case with the Oscars. But honestly, Michael McKeon deserved best actor. If if Hollywood had any idea of like looking into the future in a progress, a truly progressive performance, it's Michael McKeon. Like, yeah, they just ignored that film entirely. Like nobody knew what to make of it. I remember it because I wanted to see it. I remember they again, it was I was 13, 14. I was always starting to, again, I was really watching David Letterman a lot. So it was getting hit the con the whole comedy thing, SE TV and all the things that we were watching. Um, so I knew it was coming, and I wanted to see it. Of course, it just came and another, just like Pee Wee's Big Adventure, just came and went. So I didn't get it, I didn't see it until 1989, honestly, when I went to college and all the guys in the dorms were were raving about it. So, and again, at that point, I knew every joke coming. I heard the music, Claude sent me the tape, you know, and he told me about every scene. So, no, it's just the worst way to watch a comedy. Worse than getting spoiled on say the sixth sense or something. It's I think comedies are worse because immediately you picture something how funny something's gonna be. And if it's not as funny as you think about it, like you can imagine it. I can imagine pretty funny, you know.
SPEAKER_07So well, and I think it's another reason why these three films are to me the best, because even if you know the joke, and I know you're saying this about Spinal Tap, but especially these three performances and all the supporting performances, make it so it's not just about jokes.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And and and I do think that the value is, especially in Michael McKeon, is his investment and the fact that he's performing at this level where I'm like, he's really heartbreaking.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Um and he and he and he turns turns funny, like depressing situations funny, but at the same time, they still feel depressing.
SPEAKER_08Yes.
SPEAKER_06I would think I wouldn't, I couldn't say that, but if I wasn't so heavily sedated, oh, it's no different than all the 37 other people who've been in the band.
SPEAKER_07Or again, now there's too much fucking perspective. That means nothing. Like half of his lines are nonsense.
SPEAKER_06You know, and they're talking about saucy Jack. It's really like depressing as hell, but still funny. I envy us an awful lot like Mr. Grinch. You're a saucy one, or you're an haughty one.
SPEAKER_07Well, it it could so easily just be, and I think each one of these performances, each one of these movies just about self-deception, but again, just the the huge disappointment that comes with deceiving oneself and failing, because I I think is amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Well, we less so he wins.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but again, the victories. Here's the main thing before you ask the question, Ken. The main thing about each film is their victories are earned, which doesn't happen. Nothing look forget comedies, it just doesn't happen in in mainstream films much, where you have an earned, so the earned victories are all again. Raising Arizona's final line is a side splitter because the the victory is earned, you know, and it's a great closing line, like so perfect. Like, ah, what a funny closing line, which most movies just even then don't have. I mean, I say even then because now movies are just piles of horse shit every time. And and so now it's like, yeah, these are a time when things were well written and the the victories were earned. Anyway, go for it, Ken. What's your question?
SPEAKER_02Well, well, I'll ask the question in a second. I would just make a comment, which I will say in TV Sig Adventure, uh, the the last big chase. I will say that I got I was I was getting a little unimpressed with the big chase, like going through the um the uh who's that? Who's that uh Godzilla? Godzilla.
SPEAKER_06You just miss the point every time. You just miss the point. That's what's so freaking funny about it. It's a travelogue through Hollywood and a pastiche. And you know, a pastige of studio of the Tarzan, Godzilla, artifice, the artifice of all the Twisted Sisters, everything, the Hollywood experience, the beach dance movie.
SPEAKER_04Yes, right.
SPEAKER_02Right, but at some point, like they all have to hit though, they all have to be like like home runs because if it's not a home run, that's like okay, we we're doing that, we're in the middle of it. So the Tarzan, great, on the on the volume, that's fantastic. But just driving through the set of of Godzilla and the little little volcano is going off, like it's like, okay, so you're still chasing. I didn't uh was not overly impressed with with uh the commentary. But my question is um Sometimes I hate you. You know that sometimes I fucking hate you.
SPEAKER_06You really feel cool. You're just like missing the point of the whole thing. Well, the volcanoes. Who's even thinking the volcanoes? You are. Well, I don't I I don't know. I can't quite agree with those volcanoes. Hey, I've just watched a movie, right? It has to hit me. I wasn't impressed. It just you know, if there's one thing I can't stand is a fake volcano.
unknownNo, it's the it's a chase.
SPEAKER_06The chase through Hollywood, the chase through the American experience.
SPEAKER_07Ken, what's your question? What's the question?
SPEAKER_02Let him ask the question, you know. And you're you're probably this is a I know this is a silly question, but I'm curious. On Spinal Tap, I I feel that Michael McKean was the heart of the movie, was in most almost every scene. Well, the majority of the scenes, and yet Christopher Guest got top filling. Any reason why Christopher Guest gets top filling?
SPEAKER_06I just maybe he did the most writing, you know. Maybe he, you know, they didn't have a script. So it's I it's it's hard to maybe it's just the sort of affable nature of Michael McKeon, who should be a bigger, more important star. Like this is a total sidebar, whatever, but I didn't like his role in Better Call Saul. Uh, I just thought it was really contrived. And yet, he was amazing in it. I he, you know, he's has this sort of electricity, he's allergic to electricity, has this sort of psychosis, and it was I bet nothing but Hollywood contrivance, and yet, brilliant, still a brilliant actor doing making the most out of what it was, a stupid TV writer's little probably read about it somewhere in a in a you know reader's digest and said, Oh, that's gonna be my character, you know. But Michael McKeon is a great, great actor who never who's never gotten his due. So there's that. Um, I I don't know. I just feel like the the guy's extremely talented and probably not that big of an ego because he is the lead, it is the main character, right? You know, so I don't know. I couldn't tell you why Christopher Guest at that point, because Christopher Guest was not a name, like none of them were names until that movie. Well, no, Michael McKeon was the biggest name because he had Laverne and Shirley. Yeah, that's what I knew it from. And that's to his shame because I hate that stupid show.
SPEAKER_07And he's not funny. He's not funny.
SPEAKER_02Oh, oh, I think he's funny. I think as far as Lenny and Squiggy, you know, sort of um they were typical sitcom well irritants.
SPEAKER_06Like, yeah, hello, hello like eh, okay. That was squeaky. Yeah, okay. Lenny, he he never got much of a chance. I remember he saying that you've got that look in your eye with Penny Marshall. I thought that was pretty good. I was crack up when the stars of happy days and all that would start singing. Let's uh get Jim Neighbors to saying one of his top hits.
SPEAKER_08You know, it's this whole thing.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I was gonna say Michael McKeon's the biggest surprise considering he did come from Laverne and Shirley. You know, like, oh, he's actually super funny and super that kind of makes me love him even more.
SPEAKER_07Just like, God, that dude's just doing jobs, you know, and doing making up.
SPEAKER_04There were a ton of uh what I would call cameos. Maybe they weren't. But yeah, but nobody was a star.
SPEAKER_06Oh, nobody's a lot of nearly you know, Dana Carvey, Billy Crystal. Billy Crystal was known from soap, but he wasn't nobody knew Dana Carvey.
SPEAKER_04There was yeah, the Paul guy, the Paul musician from Letterman.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul Schaefer. But Paul Schaefer was not a known quantity. David Letterman, sure, but it's not like anybody knew who he was in 1984.
SPEAKER_04Fran Dressher. Nobody really knew Fran Dresher.
SPEAKER_06She didn't hit it big till after uh Christopher Guest's movie Um uh The Hollywood uh The Big Picture. She has a big part in that.
SPEAKER_04And I guess that makes it even more funny.
SPEAKER_07It was in Saturday Night Fever, but she did it for like two seconds.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Wait, she was in ragtime. Sorry.
SPEAKER_06Oh, well, yeah, but she was just working New York actress, you know. I get it, I get it.
SPEAKER_07Anyway, she was Ken and Alex. Did you say your favorite of the three per in the favorite performances? I was curious. Just curious.
SPEAKER_06Well, we we again I we gotten on some few sidetracks here.
SPEAKER_07So Alex for me, I like to get it back.
SPEAKER_06Keep it back in focus. Good, good editor, good English teacher, keep it back in teacher, making sure every little student gets their due.
SPEAKER_07That's a fact.
SPEAKER_06I'm sorry. I still can't get over the hairdo. It's like I'm talking to Prince Fucking Valiant. Yeah, you know, deal with it, fascist.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_06Sorry, Bert. I apologize for all the cussing tonight. Saucy Jack. That's my name.
SPEAKER_00All right, go, Alex. Nicholas Cage. Hands down. Hands down. I mean, and and uh that is the performance that spoiled it for me because Nicolas Cage has never topped it for me. I mean, it's so early in his career, but it was one of the most complete performances. And the more I watch it, the more I realize how critical his character is. You can't take him out of that movie. I mean, you know, he is the lead, he's the narrator, but he's so crucial. And he has he gets to do something that not a lot of Cone Brother characters, lead characters get to do. They don't get to break out of that spiral. He does, you know. Um Lewin Davis will forever be Lewin Davis, you know, in that downward spiral. Uh the dude will always be the dude, even though I think he enjoys being in that rut. Um even someone like Sheriff Tom Bell, who just seems so caught up in the past. I mean, this is a rare, I think a very rare character in that he has that self-awareness and he's got the biggest change.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, he has, you know, I mean, I mean, from the very get-go, he really does. Even from the get-go, he's yes, he's a recidivist. He's he's a rapido fender, but he's got a heart of gold. He's just somebody that doesn't really know. And it's funny that, you know, I think he's one of those, you know, he's become so institutionalized, that's his family. Uh and then he tries to become part of that the American dream. And who are his examples? You know, Ed, you know, Dot and Ed.
SPEAKER_06I mean Glenn.
SPEAKER_00Or Glenn, I'm sorry, Glenn. And it's so funny. And and we really, one of the scenes that I noticed today, you know, when you realize what a good person he is, is when they're heading back after slugging Glenn in the face and Holly Hunts, and we finally go off and meet some decent folk, and you go and break his nose. That ain't funny.
SPEAKER_03You know, his kids seem to think it was funny.
SPEAKER_00But when she says, when he says he was provoking me, well, what did he say? And just that look he gives her, and he doesn't tell her out of respect. Yeah, you know, what a great guy, you know. But that just that idea that he, you know, what am I good at? Well, here's a convenience store. This is what I'm good at.
SPEAKER_07He's actually good at loving Holly Hunter in this video. Like the fact that he constantly tries to make her feel better when she, you know, absolutely how we treat.
SPEAKER_00I do love that about he never raises his voice to it.
SPEAKER_06And honestly, I'm not just saying I'm not just saying this, Alex. I clued into that scene on this viewing too. I thought, you know, it really is an interesting scene with Nicolas Cage's eye acting, you know, his little sideward glances and all that.
SPEAKER_00That's pure Chuck Jones in many ways. I mean, again, just all those great Nicolas Cage really nailed it with his character. Yeah, he did again. And I I look, and I've seen some performances that I can enjoy, but nothing on the level of H.I. McDonough. And he must have been what all of 25 years old.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, pretty darn good for somebody that age, just to really fill the shoes of that character. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and uh and I realized too that beautiful scene when they're on their way to get uh Nathan Jr. and he tries to console Ed. She gives that speech about, I don't care about anything, I just want Nathan Jr. and I don't want to be with you anymore. Yeah, that's a heartbreaking scene. Yeah, and it's just it's like, oh, you know, what a gut punch. And you're really rooting for AI, always.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Ken, did you get your favorite in? Did we ask Ken? Oh, you're you're mute again.
SPEAKER_00It was Charlie Chaplin. It was the mine. Ken, you with this?
SPEAKER_07Your hate silenced him.
SPEAKER_04All that coarse language.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Joe, did you you got your favorite name, right, Joe?
SPEAKER_07Pee-wee.
SPEAKER_06Yes, Pee-wee. All right. Ken said Pee-wee. All right?
SPEAKER_08Okay, Pee-wee.
SPEAKER_06No. Can we can't? What? Bert. IT, help him out.
SPEAKER_04I don't know how to help him. I've been saying that ever since I met him.
SPEAKER_01I didn't I didn't hear the comment. There you are. Yes. For the record, I have not changed, I have not changed a single thing a single time. Crazy.
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's machines for you.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well let's. Oh, let's uh Pee Wee earlier on.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, okay. Uh let's go around the room and talk about our favorite supporting characters. You get in three. You get to pick three, everybody. Roseanne Caputi, you're three from each movie. Best supporting character.
SPEAKER_07Okay. Uh Bruno Kirby?
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Spinal tap? From Spinal Tap. Uh I would say almost John Grew doesn't feel like a supporting character, but I just I continue to just find his yeah menace when he really taps into it with the Cohen brothers just to do the best. Um, so definitely him. And um you know probably Simone.
SPEAKER_06Hey Alex will know this. Is Nan Salinger related to the JD Salinger? Or does it just I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00I think it's spelled different. I think she's okay.
SPEAKER_06Because she looks like Meredith Salinger, so I just wondered. A little, no one's related. So I just wondered.
SPEAKER_07So to me, Simone. All right. Au revoir, Pee-wee. Au revoir, Simone. Nothing better.
SPEAKER_06All right, Joe Field. Top three in or top, yeah, in each film.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Um I would have to say I like uh in Raising Arizona. I think it's hard. I I I I think that um I think John Goodman is funny um and provides an interesting kind of like counterbalance for like, oh yeah, this is how HI could go. Like, this is the direction that he could possibly end up in.
SPEAKER_06Um, I'm gonna interrupt you real quick. Uh when I was about your age, actually younger, when I was 17, I thought William Foresight was the funniest. I grew to expect John Goodman, but William Foresight, let's just give him some do. He's really good. Sure, for sure. Sorry, Joe. Yeah, that's fine.
SPEAKER_05Um so yeah, I mean I think that's kind of why I I like that character um playing off of um Nicolas Cage and kind of trying to be that kind of interesting influence in his life that's very much counterbalanced with uh Holly Hunter.
SPEAKER_07Um great tension in that scene, Welcome Home Son. Where's he been? Where's he been?
SPEAKER_06No, he's he's got it out for Holly Hunter, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Immediate.
SPEAKER_06He's almost gay for he's like almost gay for Nicholas Cage. So it's so it's like, man, he is just the biggest jerk to Holly Hunter, and he's obviously she's the biggest threat to him, yeah.
SPEAKER_07You know, that's a really interesting dynamic made super interesting by his like what the shits with him.
SPEAKER_06No, and when for what you need your dip tip, you know, so right. So he's always basically the the mediator between the two, yeah. Yeah. Uh go on, go on, Joe. Spinal tap.
SPEAKER_05Uh for spinal tap, uh I personally like their manager. Yeah, Tony Andra. Awesome. Yeah. Um, yeah. I think that just like being able to play off like things not going well as the optimal is like he does it really well. Of like, oh no, this is perfect. This is the way we we almost wanted it all along. Like, and it's like, no, it isn't.
SPEAKER_07Not a big college town. The whole the whole album is black.
SPEAKER_06Like, don't you love his ass kissing the Howard Hessman?
SPEAKER_07Hey, how are you, Laddie? Laddie? Liam.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so I I I think that his his work makes it even just even funnier. Um, and then subsequently when he leaves the film, how much things go further downhill for the band after that, which is like, wow, okay, so he was actually, I mean, doing something at least.
SPEAKER_06Oh, just real quick, gotta give it up to June Chadwick, who I don't know was in anything else. She immediately went from Spinal Tap to the TV show V, which is the the vision. So the sci-fi TV show V, she was an act, she so I don't know what happened to her, but she's um she's amazing, but she you know, she's no Tony Hendra, but she's still really funny. An Australian nightmare.
SPEAKER_07Australian nightmare, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And then for Pee Wee's Big Adventure, I would say I I I feel like I like Dottie in it a lot because I think that she kind of straddles an interesting line of like being a part of this adult but child world, but actually being more of an adult. Like she doesn't she never entirely is in one camp or the other. And I think that part of why Pee Wee's Big Adventure kind of works in a weird, interesting way is that there is it is supposed to mimic aspects of reality, right? In parts, and I think that her being like, Won't you take me to a movie or anything like that?
SPEAKER_07Like just her unrequited crush on it. She's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, her shyness, her shyness at approaching the subject is really funny. Yeah, I I totally agree.
SPEAKER_05Good job. So, yeah, I think those are my favorite supporting actors.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, Bert, haven't talked to you in a while. How are you doing? I'm good. So, three supporting actors that you like in each or one, one of each.
SPEAKER_04Well, for spinal tap, I would have to say sure because I laughed every time I saw him.
SPEAKER_06Well, he's a lead, but anyway, sure.
SPEAKER_04Oh well, he's not Lenny. And then on Pee-Wee, it's like I was initially gonna say Dottie because you know that this unrequited love, I don't know, just this admiration or you know, crush on Pee-Wee was is kind of funny, and he was oblivious and uh but not only oblivious, avoiding and terrified irritated and and angry about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what what it's a really bad connection, really bad.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, no, he's not oblivious at all. He's actually sort of disdain disdainful.
SPEAKER_04But I still laugh at large marge, so that was good, but she was just a super bit part, yeah. We can we can dig into the bit parts in each, yeah. But and then the um you guys you already said the line, the diptet line. Yeah, and uh that was the guy who you know he's just kind of this little yappy dog following um what's his name. Gail and Evell's Gail, yeah, so you like John Forrest.
SPEAKER_06So you like so you're John Fur Foresight, there's William Foresight. William Forsyth is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, he's just gonna follow him like the dog, you know, the character, the big dog with the yappy dog following after him.
SPEAKER_01They're on the floor, like you said, Gail. Yeah, don't say my name.
SPEAKER_06Y'all hear that. No, he's William Forts, I definitely made a mark on that film. He he liked Nicholas Cage, never to achieve that greatness again, unfortunately. That's the sad thing. Yeah, he was Al Capone on the Untouchables TV show.
SPEAKER_00He was flat top in Dick Tracy. I mean, probably the biggest, yeah, but before that, Cockeye and uh Once Upon a Time in America.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, just but yeah, no, he was yeah. What happened to that greatness? What happened to that potential?
SPEAKER_04Uh must have been the character.
SPEAKER_00I think so, but he does deuce big a lot. Come on.
SPEAKER_06Nailed it. Ken, thoughts? Favorites? Can you can we hear you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh yeah, can you hear me? My own, my own? We can hear you. You are um so yeah, I mean, certainly I think John Goodman now, and maybe even he deserves like like Harry Sure, maybe more than just uh um the supporting yeah, what do you call the supporting actor? He's he is what he he is uh among the leads, but he is just great.
SPEAKER_00I mean you lost him, Geno.
SPEAKER_02Oh uh I love him. Um you're gonna have to back up.
SPEAKER_06You froze, Ken. You're gonna have to back up. You were talking about John Gooden. So we missed we missed final tap or something. We missed one of your your seconds.
SPEAKER_02Okay, have we finished? Um John Goodman Start over. Um Yeah, I would just say that uh for for um Yeah, I'm missing uh complaints on the names for um what's what's the person why just say it? Give him the name.
SPEAKER_06John Goodman.
SPEAKER_02Not yeah, but the movie. What's the movie?
SPEAKER_06Raising Arizona Arizona.
SPEAKER_02Raising Arizona. So Raising Arizona, I would have to say it's John Goodman. Um he just sort of dominates. I mean, he's he's fully present in every scene. He just cut he exudes in the scenes he's in. Uh so I've got to give it to him. He's he's even like not fully a supporting player, he's one of the main players, but I just gotta give it to him. Um and then for Peewee's Big Adventure, this is a small part, but the the owner of the um of the magic shop. I just love how his enthusiasm is.
SPEAKER_03Mario box the box for Pee-wee.
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah, yeah. Um Spinal Tast did a great job with that little little bit. He just really did a great job. Um and then for um yeah, for Spinal Task, I'd have to. I mean, there's there's a lot of, I mean, certainly great little bits here and there, but I'll I'll give it um gotta give two chat with, you know, her too. I mean, it's sort of like a her part of the girlfriend that you know breaks apart the band or or put is the rift in the band. I mean, that's just the meaty part. Um and so yeah, I'll I'll I'll throw I'll I'll give her that one.
SPEAKER_06But you know, it's kind of a not a cliche, but we all know the pair, the the pattern, right? I mean, it is the girl girlfriend who breaks up the band, but she does an exceptionally great job. Uh I love like the acting when the camera pans on her, when he says, Nigel and Janine are a lot alike. She's like, she's going, yeah, and you can see her, you can see the hatred in her eyes when she's even being compared to him.
SPEAKER_07So also when she's handing out that hilarious effing schedule.
SPEAKER_06And the way Michael McKean's constantly buttering up how great it all is.
SPEAKER_07Right, for sure. And Nigel all the way at the end and her reaction to it really fast before Alec. I think you're right, Ken, about John Goodman really being a lead. So just really fast. I do think then this time around, for me, it's Trey Wilson, who I just think is like phenomenal in this movie and truly like his scenes almost every time he's in them, I laugh just because of of him. I think he's amazing. Anyway, because I'm just like, yeah, John Goodman almost feels like cheating. He's so he basically is the flip side of Nicolas Cage in that movie. Yeah, I would say more even more than Holly Hunter.
SPEAKER_06So yeah. There is between between Nigel and David St. Hubbins and Janine and then Holly Hunter and John Goodman and and the high.
SPEAKER_07So for sure. And Doppy and Pee-wee and the bike. So I feel like it's all there. It's who are we? This is this is who my image is a man. This is me as a child, a man. This is my shot at actually becoming that thing. And I'm too afraid in some ways to actually attain it. I think there's a lot of interesting things, honestly, about masculinity in these three movies.
SPEAKER_06Oh, do tell. Go. I'm not gonna tell.
SPEAKER_07Go, no, we gotta do it.
SPEAKER_06Go.
SPEAKER_07So sorry, Bert. No, fuck off. Go ahead, Alex. There's the party.
SPEAKER_00All right, Alex. Yeah. Uh, for let's see, for Spinal Tap, Paul Benedict. No, you took mine. I didn't take yours. You took mine. You know, I know all about that, but then watching him, and every time you watch that scene, that's a great example of good comedy. You you you leave your audience wanting more. It's like he just is, you know, the lead up to your favorite line, you know, God, I'm just as God made me, sir. And those glasses playing so well off of Tony Hendra.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And again, there's no script. So these guys are just outlining this and they're just riffing. And you know, Paul Benedict, here's the deal: like, like, like Michael McKeon. So he's on the Jefferson. Jefferson, he's on Sesame Street. Sesame Street. He's on he's on all these things, and then he's always showing up. And he he showed, like again, as a kid or teenager, or no, as a grown-ass high school college student, seeing it going, man, I never realized how funny that guy was. But the glasses, the thick glasses.
SPEAKER_07Under his breath gay comments. You're all your own. The fact that he's there, don't tempt me.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, don't tempt me. Yeah, no, he's Tony Hendra's line is so funny because he's so committed to his poisonous anger, you know. Like, no, it's so funny, you know, and what a bully he is to everybody beneath him, except for, you know, but even his hate, sorry to go go all riffing on Tony Hendra, but his hatred for for Patrick McNee is hilarious.
SPEAKER_01Fucking oh fair, you know, he's so mad about everything.
SPEAKER_06Anyway, sorry. Uh Tony Hendra is awesome. But um, all right, who's left? Roseanne, have you had your shot? I've only mentioned one movie.
SPEAKER_00I mentioned one movie, Spinal Tap. Yes, uh Pee-wee's Big Adventure, uh Mark Holton. There, I said it. Okay, okay, and then for Raising Arizona, it's gonna be Tex Cobb. Ah, I was wondering somebody's gonna give him some love. Tex Cobb because he is critical to the story, and he's you know, when he gets that one great scene with Trey Wilson, yeah. I mean, and you see what a menace he is. I mean, where he really brings more than John Goodman. I love John Goodman, don't get me wrong, but it's what you know, it it's you know, it takes a serious tone. I mean, come on, Lenny Smalls is just the flip side of Anton Shagur. They're basically the same kind of creature, you know, and it is one of those, it's like, are we looking at magic realism or are we looking at fantasy? I mean, because it's like even Anton Shagur has that quality about, you know, you saw him and you're still alive, you know, and that great scene when he appears at the end and and and Ed sees him, and Nicolas Cage, you see him too. No, but that, you know, and that just you know, the how steeped in literature those two guys are that they come up with this. I mean, this is right out of like Shakespeare or or or Greek tragedy, you know, opening Pandora's box and all the evils of the world, yeah, you know, and how he unleashes this force that he has to deal with.
SPEAKER_06Well, here's the thing Randall Tex Cobb was a character in the 80s, like he he ran did the talk shows rounds and boxer and all that, but I don't think he was ever as amazing. Like he was an uncommon valor and he was fine. Yeah, but you look at him in Raising Arizona, and it's such like I wonder who directed him. Was it the Collins or was it him? Because I don't know. He's drooling the nose, the nose acting, the voice acting that through the nose, the way he talks, it's just an amazing performance. And every time I watch it, I'm always sort of marveling at he was never this good. This is just no, it's like a terrific performance from a boxer.
SPEAKER_00No, but I think one of the cones put it best. It's like, uh, well, he was more really a force of nature. I don't think I don't think it'd rush headlong into working with him again. I wouldn't call him an actor as much as I'd call him a force of nature, and he was.
SPEAKER_06But his deliveries of fair price, fair price like that. It's all chilling. It's all really chilling. And I'm like, underplayed.
SPEAKER_00Did they direct it or did he? I don't know because you know, think about most amateur actors playing that kind of role. They're gonna, you know, the twisting or fair price. No, that's what's frightening is how calm he is. Yeah, even when he's beating up HI. You know, now here's the question you know, that moment when he's got HI and the bear hug, and HI is clawing away and he pulls back the the armor and he sees the Mr. Horsepower tattoo and he stops. And I know it's you can look at it as a psych gag, but they have that moment, you know, and then when he starts to beat him some more, it's like he's almost apologizing. He's I didn't getting beat up. And then even when he reveals that he has the pin, it's never ha ha ha. It's I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_06Well, they were soulmates, right?
SPEAKER_00They were brothers of kind of fraternity. Brothers, we never know about where Nicolas Cage came from, and you know, I myself fetched a prize. Well, as a pup myself, I'll fetch $30,000. It's 1954, $30,000.
SPEAKER_07Well, again, it does beg the question how much of it is he just a manifestation of Nicolas Cage. That's and that's the beauty, I think, of what the Cone Brothers can do. For sure. And for such a movie that, I mean, in a way, is yeah, really is evocative. Like there is no there's a bunch of different ways you could read Text Cobb, I think, in terms of uh Nicolas Cage and their relationship. Anyway.
SPEAKER_00So that's it, Gino.
SPEAKER_06Move on. Well, you you still you got Paul Benedict. Uh, I'm gonna say um so PV's big adventure. Boy, there's there's there's all sorts of levels of bit players. We don't have the time to go into that, but yeah, it's gotta be Dottie, you know, or chip.
SPEAKER_00What about Amazing Larry?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I don't know. Jen hooks. I mean, there's there's there's too many, there's too many to pick. But if I have to pick one, it's gotta be Dotty, you know. I think Elizabeth Daly does a great job of of committing to the lunacy and and and grounding it as Joe said. Um, and then uh what's the other film? So it was Dottie Pee-wee, Raising Arizona. Yeah, it's John Goodman for sure, but if we're gonna go down to the the the other, it's Wim Forsyth and then the other bit players, you know, give it up for Sam McMurray. You know, he's he's terrific. And I had seen him on Moonlighting before Raising Arizona. So it was always just Raising Arizona is a revelation of those guys always cast and they do it all the time. And I've mentioned it on other previous podcasts, but they grab these TV actors or people you've seen on TV or theater or whatever, who can really strut, and you wouldn't know it if it wasn't for them, you know. And Sam McMurray's hilarious. I mean, hilarious. I I posted on the the the gif of him watch yourself, cut yourself, Mordecai. I mean, that's such a I mean, the setup is coming and it's so funny. That was another one of those huge laughs when I first saw it. Well, just the subtle racism of not not exactly subtle.
SPEAKER_00Well, Negro kid born with a heart on the outside. Someone ought to sell chicken. Come on, buy one.
SPEAKER_07Hit the deck, boy.
SPEAKER_06All right, so I've said my piece. One thing I want to talk about, I don't know if you gentlemen, I mean I'm always talking about music. We won't really go into it. No time, even though all three have great scores, especially. I mean, Spinal Tap obviously has great music, uh, great funny music. But I I rarely talk about editing. But I will say Spinal Tap is a marvel of editing. Did anybody notice that? If you don't want to talk about it, forget it. But Bert, did you notice the editing in Spinal Tap?
SPEAKER_02that just how well edited it is no Ken you're an editor how is how would you rank the editing in final tab oh for God's sake Ken again Ken Ken we cannot hear you sound yeah yeah okay now we can hear you here we go you must you must have a short in your mic no we can't hear you again you must have a short in your mic again that's all I can figure out no with no cord no and your mic in your computer there must be some sort of short it's going in and out but you can now I can okay you can't hear me now I can we can we can we can okay editing Ken editing okay so uh I want to pivot a little bit so I didn't I wasn't um through I I wasn't blown away by the editing per se but the shot set setup so that's the thing with the mockumentary is you've got to pack a lot of story inside the story. So where the cameras were positioned um there's a lot of three dimensional dimensionality where they would comment on one thing in the foreground and then there'd be a commentary on it in the background to where he would be able to place the cameras which of course you have a lot more flexibility in a in a fake film than in a real documentary. So he had that benefit of being able to put the cameras where he wanted but that I thought was really good is conveying those messages or the or that subtext through how the the shots were set up. And that I thought was really good.
SPEAKER_06Well I again it wasn't scripted and I have the special edition DVD and so um you see the film in its entirety or with all the the cutscenes that and they cut a lot out like hours of footage and it's I think it's a marvel of editing because they had all this footage that they that they improvised and the editor has a huge uh role in making it one of the funniest films of all time because so who was responsible because they list two editors I'm not sure I'm not sure beta and Kim Seacrist. I'm not sure who was they they're both responsible they waded through all this improvised comedy and turned it into a crackerjack like just tight tight comedy that you'd never guess you know so like Bruno Kirby he has much more to do in the film you know but it they they edit him down to the perfect role so uh so when you saw the whole thing how how much can can you hear me?
SPEAKER_02Yeah I can hear you so how much how long was the pool running time?
SPEAKER_06Oh I like any film that's just shooting and shooting I but I you know they they cut more scenes for the viewer just to enjoy but it was like an hour's worth it's like 45 minutes worth of of of unedited footage not unedited but sort of crafted outtakes so there's lots and lots more to that film and I it's not that good it's not that funny. So the stuff you see isn't that isn't that funny. So I think it's a extremely well edited film.
SPEAKER_07And I think Pee Wee's big I think all three all three films are extremely well edited you know well there's I think comedy has to be well edited I think it's so easy to go wrong to make a scene last too long to make the joke you know exhausting things like this. I think editing is key and these three are three very like streamlined perfectly I think edited films.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well there's an energy in raising Arizona that I don't think you've seen in other movies. You know and it I mean it it it has the potential to go at breakneck speed which can become very exhausting in any kind of movie but they just seem to know when they when to pull it back when to hit us with a punchline and let us move on to the next beat or the next scene you know let us catch our breath. And I think a lot of credit to uh speaking of people that have never performed as well since is Barry Sonnenfeld who did the camera work. I mean it was just like that is some of the most brilliant and I think you could see a lot of uh the the spirit of Sam Raimi in those shots. Yeah um but I think he does a great job that camera becomes almost a character in itself and it just moves through that and it's just really that that movie just it's I I don't know why I still get goosebumps watching it for you know in the I still marvel I still marvel at the the steady cam going above the car and up the ladder.
SPEAKER_06Yeah that's and I know I know there's a cut point where they go through the curtains but it's still it's still a really really well done sequence you know right out of Sam Raimi.
SPEAKER_00Yeah evil dead yeah and there was and I think they did deliberately do an homage to Sam Raimi for that. But it it's beautiful it still works really well it does for the dream well and again the way it punctuates the end of the dream and how he comes to like it just the brilliance of that movie.
SPEAKER_06And the music moving to Tim Burton you know I always hate dreams in movies uh because they're never very good but the first dream that you like so much Ken it's low budgets all these films in the LA Hills and and it's supposed to be France and but fine it's it's a dream so it can be cheap because dreams make things weird and cheap. And then the the the just the shot the overhead shot of the crowd dispersing as the alarm clock goes along with it's great. And that does feel like a dream like that feels how dreams are where it's everybody slowly wanders away and I think yeah that's you know there's a lot of creativity with the low budget in in all three films for sure.
SPEAKER_00Well and dreams are so important in raising Arizona.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And Pee Wee. And peewee well that's what I mean just like yeah like yeah right the dreams are important because they advanced the story it's not like a gimmick. No it helps to move the story along.
SPEAKER_07With Francis literally as the devil is those clown surgeons freaked me out for my entire life.
SPEAKER_00I take it back Alex uh I was I was thinking too harsh on punched you in the face yeah I was thinking too hard on Francis he's he's indelible for sure yeah he's wonderful Margaret Fulton you know and again you know I would you I wish I could have seen more of him and he's the kind of guy that would pop up here and there and you wanted to see more of him. I mean he'd pop up in Seinfeld he he was in a low budget John Wayne he was in team wolf yes he was as fatty or chubby yeah inappropriate but what was he played John Wayne Gacy one of the most notorious serial serial killers also weirdly in a league of their own oh that's really who did the older the the kid the older kid yeah we're gonna lose at the end of the movie he just comes on at the end yeah anyway all right so last question everybody well not before the recommendations uh last question who who's the best director of the bunch Joe Field uh who's the best director of the bunch Rob Reiner Tim Burton or Joel and Ethan Cohen three all-stars i i i think i think in this case i'm gonna say tim burton um i i think that he we've big adventure is one of those movies that feels like i i i want to go back and reread the odyssey just to see how well it tracks on to it you know um or like you could compare it with like the odyssey or the grail quest or anything else like that but it's a com but it's a comedy and I I I mean I feel like being able to kind of balance the little gags with following this one strand through like it it it could have been done in a very sloppy way in a way that was completely and utterly nonsensical um but was able to I don't know I I felt like it worked well the pacing was good um and that for as zany and out there as it all is like it still manages to maintain cohesion which I think is why I would say that that's the best direction is juggling so many of these weird random pieces I can agree with that I would I would I certainly was high on Tim Burton after Peevee's big adventure and I never achieved that admiration again even with Batman um Bert who who did you think did the best job direct directing well if it's based on the one I thought was the funniest um it'd be the Cohen Cohen brothers I guess but Tim Burton was good too you know um but if I'm like well if I have to pick um it's like I bought this Arizona one a long time ago and I've watched it a lot and quoted it a lot and left and and that's not always on the director but some of that's just on the writer.
SPEAKER_04But there that's them. So there you go writers are them so um not in for any particular specific reason but the Cohen brothers and I would I would get the Cohen brothers as well um I would say there's a di the movie is very dynamic.
SPEAKER_02The um the shots are dynamic the the action uh portrayed in within the camera uh it it feels more came alive very strongly okay I can hear you we can hear barely but we can hear you I can deal with that okay so uh so yeah so I think that uh the I think uh Bridge in Arizona is a very dynamic movie and a lot of action and I mean not I I mean certainly TV figures adventure has action you know big adventure but the Cohn's I thought really like each frame or each each setup each scene they really pack a lot in with um I just give them the credit for for making that a dynamic movie Roseanne um I know you hate this question just abstain then abstain okay Jacob Smith deal Alex you gonna compare directory wait a second really fast yeah I do want to say uh I think Rob Reiner did innovate something with those guys they didn't have it correct me if I'm wrong uh but I don't remember any mockumentaries before the Ruttles the Ruttles okay I don't know what that is that's Monty Python okay okay but I will say I feel like uh Spinal tap certainly popularized this and it feels like um maybe more I don't know a little bit something or other uh and maybe I'm just trying to throw Rob Rainer a bone because the truth is the Cohen's are the only Cohen brothers are the ones that like truly fulfilled the promise of this film where they started in such a like unbelievably vivid way and really grew as filmmakers as opposed to the other two which are nothing but crash and burn horseshit.
SPEAKER_07But be fair Rob Reiner did Princess Bride after I know that I know that but he did it soon after and then just to have such a terrific um I think again I like I think Ed Wood is a great Tim Burton film. You know I think they made other fine films but they're not the Cohen brothers who continue to really grow.
SPEAKER_06I'm sorry what about the John Cusett what's the name of that one the John Kuset oh um the the sure thing the sure thing that was before Spinal Tap was that before okay I like sure thing for no no no I'm sorry that was before Princess that was before Princess Bride so it was after Spinal Tap because he was just proving he could do a studio movie in that case yeah I think it was like hey what can you do with this so I think Tim Burton and Rob Reiner made other films that were fine but they're not the Cohen brothers. Well Princess Bride is better than fine.
SPEAKER_07For sure yes for good I think Ed Wood is better than fine. Yeah anyway I'm just saying it would have to be the Cohen brothers because what they created there is something that they built upon for the rest of their career thus far.
SPEAKER_06But you can still have a one hit one sorry you can still have a one hit one you can still have a one hit wonder who who comes up with a a catchy tune that's better than you know the so I think these two in terms of one hit wonders if let's just say they were Roseanne disappeared Roseanne just were so flabbergasted by that joke or flat anyway what I'm saying is you can have one hit wonders that are transcend all time. So these three films at let's just say that nobody ever did anything again these three films would be hard to compare like who's destined for greatness because they're all No I know I'm just I'm just thinking because you had me abstain um and then I resented it.
SPEAKER_07I thought you're gonna I thought you were gonna abstain because you I was gonna I do but then I was gonna think about it I'm just like well what if I looked at it in a different way is all that's all and and then it turns out after this brief discussion that it was of no value.
SPEAKER_06So abstain that's how Roseanne abstains.
SPEAKER_00All right Alex you get the last word on director uh the Cone brothers yeah the Cone brothers because something that Roseanne said which is true is like this is what established their career. And you know you can draw a line from everything that came after that and the way they were just able to improve and get do something different but I think it all comes back to raising Arizona. Sure. And you know what was shocking to me what I think was so refreshing when I saw this in the theater was these are the two guys that did Blood Simple, which was kind of a cruel cynical little movie. Not great either. I don't love well and I you know and that was one of those when they were you know these critic darlings got a lot of critical and you had to go and people talked about it and it was almost as if they're just forced to say because you're supposed to say you're supposed to like it because we said so and I went to see it and it was like uh you know what the hell did I just watch? You know I mean John Getz right John Gets John Getz yeah John Getz and you've got these characters none of them are likable none of them you know it's just a cool little movie and then you've got this movie which is just wow um this is you know what was waiting to get out it seems well alex I'm gonna give you full credit you're the you're the bloke who pointed out that um Fargo was very similar to Raising Arizona and I hadn't thought of it.
SPEAKER_02So Alex's supreme intelligence in in 1996 he said idiot savant and I said yeah yeah I didn't think about that yeah so then I started noticing the pattern in all their movies um yeah that what's the man who wasn't there that that's all they they've been ruminating on this theme for a while now there's some yeah no it's unleashing the the you know thinking this simple plan will unleash hell so well yeah okay second to last question before we get into the recommendations which we've all pretty much recommended so it's a useless question is anybody looking forward to the Spinal Tap sequel Kendrick Wright I have never heard the word that there's a spinal tap tap sequel coming out in November just came out coming out in November I I Joe Field you full full props I'm giving a lot of props tonight Joe pointed it out to me I I had no idea it was going to works either and I'm usually up to the minute on this stuff but I'm giving up they're beating my the love of cinema out of me these Hollywood jerks so I don't know I don't know what to think I mean we all know that the sequels are are rarely as approach any the sort of quality of the first one so I don't know what to think.
SPEAKER_04Wow well the kids in the hall reunion on on uh Amazon or whatever don't bring that that was enough to scare me away from reunions and reboots altogether uh yeah Bert any interest in a you didn't even like spinal tap so any interest in a sequel no i i did see that i was looking at IMDB and there was a link to it at the bottom and it said this is spinal tap two and I'm like oh they made a second one and I thought it was old I thought oh I missed that one too no we haven't seen it yet Joe finder of this little nugget of information what do you think go you're gonna go I think it could be fun yeah I would watch it we'll we'll we'll see if it has any of the charm of the original or if they're able to sink back into their characters after so many years but well I trust Michael McKeon he's the only one in Japan CRISPR Guest has been doing a lot of movies that are very funny.
SPEAKER_06So even if it's as bad, not as bad but as as random or as as uninspired as um for your consideration for your consideration still had little really funny little gems. So it's possible you know um but you know you're missing a really important component you know you don't have Tony Hendra yeah you know and you know I mean just just from the discussion how great what he brought you know and hopefully they can find somebody worthy well even if they go the opposite way and get Eugene Levy or somebody from the troupe, you know, John Michael Higgins there's there's all sorts of guys they could get or Catherine O'Hara they could get people who are capable it's just the question do they have the focus to do it? And are they still do they have the edge to do it? And the one person I trust the least now is Rob Reiner.
SPEAKER_00I just don't think he has the well maybe he's got one left in the tank so let's go I don't think so yeah no you're right he has so yeah so maybe this will kind of bring it back a little Roseanne looking forward to it gonna see it no you're not gonna see it no Ken I already asked you you were flabbergasted they're even making it are you gonna see it I I'll I'll look at reviews if people say it's good I'll check it out uh but I'm I mean I'm not gonna be a diehard about it.
SPEAKER_06You're not their opening day um all right well that's it uh there's recommendations that's stupid what you do oh well I'll I'll probably uh just like you can I will base it on the the audience reaction if but you can't you can't do that you have to either go or not and so it's the kind of movie I doubt I will run to see if if if unless but I don't trust reviews either you know like right now they're saying that Snow White is wildly creative. I'm like uh huh sure didn't help like yeah I think you just want to sell tickets so you paid off a bunch of critics a bunch of dumb patsy critics to say Snow White's just great because let me tell you something the Lion King all that horse shit is terrible so all all their Disney live actors they're they're all uniformly terrible like no they haven't done a good one yet so you're not gonna fake me out with all your positive reviews so you know Blade Runner 2049 oh better than the original like no nobody's even talking about it anymore nobody except for millennial jerks so you know like no they're not gonna supplant the classic I doubt it spinal tap has made a bunch of resurgences in 92 they did break like the wind it it never caught on you know they released another album they've had appearances i i just don't you know their time is my in my gut I feel like their time has come and gone so and just the fact of of that they were doing a has been story when they were like still in their heyday as rock stars right 30 years later and now they're old men they've been walked up for 30 years that what well don't you think they could if they wanted to just tap into Rolling Stones and just rip on them endlessly um for that geriatric tour or any of these old metal bands that are still you know but I I don't know enough about that subject to know if there's a comedy to be mine.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god Iggy pop you know still cabarding around without a shirt and it's please for the love of God put a shirt on Iggy so but anyway yeah so um all right well we'll leave it at that maybe we'll do a final step two review when it comes out or maybe not thanks everybody for amazing amazing 100th episode and strength on me the Moolon Rouge all right good night everybody thank you for listening to Fabulous Film and Friend copyright twenty twenty five a Bel Air Films production