Fabulous Film & Friends
A podcast for the true cineaste. This podcast examines the impact great or memorable films have on us both personally and culturally. If you've ever bonded with someone or joined a lively discussion circle based on your love of cinema, this is the podcast for you.
Fabulous Film & Friends
Ep. #106 - 1970's Car Caper SHOWDOWN!: Vanishing Point v. Gone in 60 Seconds v. Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry
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Was there ever an era in cinema history when the obsession with cars, speed, and outrunning the law—whether you were a hick, a hippie, or a world-weary urbanite—captured the public’s imagination more than in the early 1970s?
That’s what we aim to ponder on this, our 106th episode of the Triple FFF as we discuss not one, not 2 but THREE POWERHOUSE mainstream movies of muscle-car mayhem starting with 1971’s Vanishing Point directed by Richard C. Sarafian and starring Barry Newman, Dean Jagger, Paul Koslo, Severn Darden, Anthony James, John Amos and Cleavon Little followed by 1974’s Gone in 60 Seconds directed and starring the great HB Halicki, his brother Ronald, Jerry Daugirda and Marion Busia. And topped off with Dirty Mary Crazy Larry also released in ’74 directed by John Hough and starring Peter Fonda, Susan George, Adam Roarke, Roddy McDowell and Vic Morrow.
My guests this week are car and driving averse bookworm Roseanne Caputi, and the actor photographer and funnyman who heavily encouraged this topic of road burning revelry, a man who spent his formative years at the local theater in Ketchikan Alaska with a dazed smile on his face while his chin and his elbows rested on the seat in front him, whether there was someone seated in front of him or not, Gordon Alex Robertson.
Before we cue the getaway banjo music and yell, “Kiss my Grits!” the synopses:
Vanishing Point: Kowalski, a Nam vet and former cop turned delivery driver, is tasked with transporting a 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T from Colorado to San Francisco in record time. As he speeds across the desert, he becomes a symbol of freedom and defiance, pursued by a relentless law enforcement apparatus.
Gone in 60 Seconds (1974): Maindrian Pace, an insurance adjuster and skilled car thief, is tasked with stealing fifty cars in a single night for a dangerous crime syndicate. As the clock ticks down, Pace races against time and evades the law against every possible odd to complete his impressive score.
Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry: After pulling off a daring yet disturbing home invasion and supermarket safe heist, two over the hill race car drivers, Larry and Deke, hit the California highways while on the run from the law. They run into a setback when they are joined by Mary, a feisty and free spirited former one night stand of Larry’s.
The oddball trio then speed through the CA Delta backroads pursued by the shrewd and determined Captain Everett Franklin.
Which film laps the others in the Grand Prix and stands as an indelible classic? Or do all three win the Championship?
Find out!
Watch the video podcast on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/nSQrMM2TnsQ
And now it's time for fabulous filming friends. Was there ever an era in cinema history when the obsession with cars, speed, and outrunning the law, whether you were a hick, a hippie, or a worldwory urbanite, captured the public's imagination more than early 1970s? That's what we aim to ponder on this, our 106th episode of the Triple F, as we discuss not one, not two, but three powerhouse mainstream movies of muscle car mayhem, starting with 1971's Vanishing Point, directed by Richard C. Serafien, and starring Barry Newman, Dean Jagger, Paul Coslow, Severin Darden, Anthony James, John Amos, and Cleavon Little. Followed by 1974's Gone in 60 Seconds, directed and starring the great H.B. Halicki, his brother Ron, Jerry Dagirda, and Marion Bouja. And topped off with Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry, also released in 74, directed by John Huff, and starring Peter Fonda, Susan George, Adam Rourke, Roddy McDowell, and Vic Morrow. My guests this week are Car and Driving Averse, Bookworm Roseanne Capuoti, and the actor, photographer, and funny man who heavily encouraged this topic of road-burning revelry, a man who spent his formative years at the local theater in Ketchukin, Alaska, with a dazed smile on his face while his chin and his elbows rested on the seat in front of him. Whether there was someone seated in front of him or not, Gordon Alex Robertson.
SPEAKER_06Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Alex, this is your show. Warm us up with your best Vic Morrow calling in an imaginary squad car maze. Come on.
SPEAKER_03Uh oh my gosh, Gino. Alright, um. When you want to go right, go left. When you want to go left, go straight. When you want to go straight, don't even bother. Okay? Now, buzz off. Okay, there. That's my Vic Morrow.
SPEAKER_04Don't apologize. You sound just like him.
SPEAKER_03Well, God bless Vic Morrow, you know? And the and the eerie foreshadowing in that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.
SPEAKER_04Okay, before we cue to the getaway banjo music and yell Yeehaw or kiss my grits, the synopsis. In Vanishing Point, Kowalski, a nom vet and former cop-turn delivery driver, is tasked with transporting a 1970 Dodge Challenger RT from Colorado to San Francisco in record time. As he speeds across the desert, he becomes a symbol of freedom and defiance, pursued by a relentless law enforcement apparatus. In gun in 60 seconds, main trick, main dream pace. An insurance adjuster and skilled car thief is tasked with stealing 50 cars in a single night for a dangerous crime syndicate. As the clock ticks down, Pace races against time and evades the law in every possible manner to complete his impressive score. Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry, after pulling off a daring yet disturbing home invasion in supermarket safe heist, two over-the-hill race car drivers, Larry and Beak, hit the California highways while on the run from John Law. They run into a setback when they are joined by Mary, a feisty and free-spirited former one-night stand of Larry's. The oddball trio then speed through the California Delta back roads, pursued by the shrewd and determined Captain Everett Franklin. Okay, which film laps the others in the Grand Prix and stands as an indelible classic? Or do all three stand as champions? Find out! Alright, Alex. Here you go. You called it. It's your it's your big uh nostalgia trip. Tell me which rank the films for me. In order of love.
SPEAKER_03The vanishing point. Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry, gone in sixty seconds. That's my order. Thank you, folks. You've been wonderful.
SPEAKER_04Roseanne Caputi, what'd you think? Rank 'em.
SPEAKER_05This is I don't know if this is gonna work, I think, but I think this is what I think. Uh Gone in Sixty Seconds, Vanishing Point, and Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry.
SPEAKER_03Oh, interesting. Interesting.
SPEAKER_04And I've got Vanishing Point, Gone in Sixty Seconds, Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry. All right, Alex. Uh I'm I'm let leaving it up to you. Uh what do you love about these films? Um the Yukon Theater in Ketchukan.
SPEAKER_03Actually, it was either the Coliseum or the Revilla. That was your choice. Uh the Coliseum was more the luxury theater, and it was at that time, I think I think it was a dollar for a double feature. Scandalous when it went to a dollar. And thank goodness the revilla was 75 cents, but you usually had to deal with uh um creaking old woman. Drunks and flies. Drunks and flies and the possibility of rats running across the floor. Uh, but you know what? It didn't matter. You were there for the experience. Um, I was I saw all three movies the same year, uh, eighth grade. Uh I saw the first two, Vanishing Point and Dirty Mary Crazy Larry as a double feature, which apparently they made the rounds. Um when I was um I think it was fall of 75. And then in the spring of 76, we saw Gone in 60 Seconds. So um we were kids, we were boys, we were into that sort of thing. You know, we wanted the car wrecks, we wanted the we wanted the visceral sensation of seeing cars crash. Although with the first two movies, there was something different. It wasn't just something. I mean, it was even my 14-year-old mind understood that this is different. Um, I couldn't put a finger on it, but it wasn't just done purely for the sake of smashing up cars. There was something that, you know.
SPEAKER_05That's my question. No, like when we talk about these movies, like especially these car movies, 70s car movies that are like, I guess, by and large, the the sort of modern Western at that time. What are we talking about?
SPEAKER_02That's a good question.
SPEAKER_05Freedom. I mean, but it's more than that. It's something like that.
SPEAKER_03There was something about one of the things that was unique in the 60s, starting in the 60s, when these manufacturers started producing lighter frames with bigger motors, the muscle car, the beginning of the muscle car. You know, now you've got these cars that now that that, you know, if you modify them, you can I mean maybe even off the sh, you know, showroom floor, they'll zip right out the door. But you know, the Well, that's part of the problem too.
SPEAKER_05Like Chevy, Dodge, Ford, like this is this is a corporate. So all this freedom is like brought to us by corporations.
SPEAKER_03Well, therein lies the irony.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um But there was something I don't know. Uh there was something, I don't know what it was about Kowalski that seemed so identifiable to somebody like me. Uh a big mane of bushy hair, which when I was that age, my hair would grow out to some, you know, uh uncontrollable mess. Um to say nothing of those mutton chops. No, the mutton chops which I could never achieve.
SPEAKER_05And your love for uppers.
SPEAKER_03And uppers, yes. My love for uppers and blonde women on motorcycles.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, unquestionable choices with other races. What? Anyway, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03Oh, it was there. But it was I I don't know. It was just something different. Um I can't say what it was, but I went back more than once to see that movie. To see both movies. I mean, that was that was sort of my gauge when I was that age. If I liked something, I couldn't identify what it was, I'd sneak out and go and see it again if I had a chance.
SPEAKER_05What did it make you think about?
SPEAKER_03Um besides cars. Putting myself in that position and then saying, well, what would I do to get past the bulldozers? What would I do that Kowalski couldn't do? You know, I I maybe that was a big part of it. Like, I want to rewrite the story. I want I want Kowalski to live, you know, in my 14-year-old mind.
SPEAKER_05Do you feel the same about Peter Fonda and and company?
SPEAKER_03I don't know if I felt that as the way I do. I was happy when they died. Yeah. I don't think I was happy. I was more shocked, but watching it again, it was like that was really their only out. There was no way. And I really feel like But they don't they don't they don't choose it. They just get smashed like morons. No, but I just feel like at the end of the day, Hey, isn't life absurd? It's absurd, but the choices they make, I will argue and say that, you know, starting at the beginning of the movie, they the the die was cast. You know, it's like they opened Pandora's box and now they have to pay the price.
SPEAKER_05I don't feel like their existence is that important to be like linked with destiny, though.
SPEAKER_03In what way?
SPEAKER_05I feel like all three characters are really negligible. So I don't feel I don't feel like the pull of destiny when it comes to them. I don't feel like that.
SPEAKER_03I wonder though, too, in context, say in in w if you're framing the 60s, or like let's say go back to the 60s and take Peter Fonda's Captain America. You know, the idealistic young man that's going out to find the American dream.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but that's like Song of the Open Road. Like that's it is so like to me, easy writer, yeah, but that you feel his connection with destiny and the land and all these things from the beginning of that film. Like, say what you will, that it's some hippie film, but it it has all these all these themes and qualities from the very beginning. And I don't feel that with being very crazy Larry.
SPEAKER_03No, and I wouldn't argue that. I mean, it's the you know, and I don't know if it was something deliberate on Peter Fonda's part. Where because remember toward the very end of the movie, Easy Rider, I know I'm using Easy Rider, but when Captain or uh Billy says we did it, we made it, and he goes, No, we blew it. We blew it, man. I mean, after all of this, so you know, and and they're you know, they they become victims of the system they're trying to break free from. Whereas by this time with with Larry, it's almost just some, I'm you know, whatever. I'm gonna thumb my nose. I don't care, I'm in it for myself. Forget about the idealistic whatever.
SPEAKER_05You know, everything's they don't have any idealism from the beginning. It's just like too old, too sad sex trying to get like even the robbery, even though it's like you could say, like gone in 60 seconds, they're robbing from the rich. But in the Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry, it's just to get back to like racing. Like it's not even an ideal.
SPEAKER_03No, and that's and that is, and that's I think we're in, you know, the why these people are so uh borderline detestable, if not absolutely detestable. At least Deke and Larry, because they rob a grocery store. They rob, they rob one of their own people. Sure. You know, they rob a guy that's out just making an honest living. It's not like Bonnie and Clyde, where they're stealing from the banks who, you know, are running people out of business off their farms. It's they just they're almost as if there is no prejudice. There is no.
SPEAKER_04So you're saying it's a commentary on the the failure of the hippie movement.
SPEAKER_03I think it is. How? I do. I think you're heading into the cynicism of the 70s. I think as if, you know, we had these ideas, we wanted to bring love and peace to the world. I don't see them as representing that at all.
SPEAKER_04Because I well, I'm just gonna I'm just a lunkhead. I need to be told a little bit what to think. I need some sort of tone, I need something. I'm just not gauging it from Peter Fonda and Susan George. They just seem uh they just seem a little underwritten to me. I don't, I just I don't know that they're just dumb shits. You know, they're not like let's say um Eric Stoltz and Rosanna Arquette in Pulp Fiction, where you know where you know you're just dealing with these sort of nihilistic, heroin-addicted dipshits.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you've got to Mickey and Mallory and natural born killers or something.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're just feeling right, right. I said, and I thought, and I talked, I thought about natural born killers when I saw this film because they at least give you enough backstory and enough idea of like, okay, they are a creation of the system that is right now in 1994. But in this film, I got no gauge on them whatsoever, other than he's kind of laughing like a moron, which I I always appreciate, you know. You know, he's sort of, you know, he has that some mirthless laugh of the insane. But I that's about it. That's the only thing Peter Fawn is giving me.
SPEAKER_05And I wouldn't say they even bring it out in each other, they seem to be like already that Deke doesn't sort of like balance it out or even I it they do seem like three underwritten characters stuck in a car. And and then I just wonder, okay, representing what? They go from one place to another. And so Vic Morrow, his motivations are really murky. And so the whatever, the but but then I keep thinking, okay, like the motivations in general in these films. I'm just like, okay, we're we're obviously in the era of anti-cock, anti-authority. So that's why I was talking earlier about like liminal spaces or whatever. I'm like, so we are anti-authority, but to what end? And I feel like that's the biggest question that these three films like ask, you know, is just like, okay, if we aren't this anymore, what are we?
SPEAKER_03And maybe that is part of the commentary in Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry. They just don't know.
SPEAKER_05It's but I don't think Kowalski knows either.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean disagree there. Well, who is the thing is Kowalski Kowalski's in pursuit because he's speeding on the freeway and causes that that drag or that that Jaguar to crash. Right. You know, so he's again, he starts it starts with him like, why are we rooting for Kowalski?
SPEAKER_05Right, we're back to Top Gun with just Maverick, you are unsane.
SPEAKER_04So he's he's uh okay, we get at least with Kowalski, we are learning that he's a nom vet and he's a cop and he you know we learn that, we learn enough, but he's still at fault, you know. He's still recklessly at fault. He's on uppers, right? He's on the dolls.
SPEAKER_05We see at least like where he came from, but what is he representing going forward as he drives into that barrier? What is Kowalski? What is Kowalski driving forward? Who what what does this represent as he's like driving into this barrier? He doesn't, it's not like Max, you know, in Mad Max or something where it's just like it becomes then first it's about revenge and then it is about survival at any cost. That's not what he is. So I do feel this like what's so interesting, it has these movies have these outward manifestations of masculinity with all these muscle cars, but internally it's this sort of ambiguous, morally ambivalent, confusing mess. If you ask me, these movies are like the Vatican II of genre films or something, and and where did it and it didn't lead anywhere?
SPEAKER_04Well, yes, it did, Roseanne. It led to the Tom Cruise dancing in his okay. Smokey and the bandit.
SPEAKER_05Smokey and the bandit, fine. Where they had to make a comedy, right? I'm where they had to make it still comedy.
SPEAKER_04But we gotta we do have to stop and analyze what is going on in the 70s because this is a major theme. It's taken seriously, and then at the end of the era, we finish with Duke's a hazard. So this theme runs through the entire decade.
SPEAKER_05That's why I'm saying, like, what are we talking about when we're talking about these movies?
SPEAKER_03Well, maybe in in context of uh the arc of the 70s, starting uh with the vanishing point, which is what within a couple of years, 71 so still fresh with 60s, the sixties in our minds. Um the sixties.
SPEAKER_04But are they are they are they uh relinquishing blame? Are they are they the finger pointing Gen Z, Gen uh, Gen Alphas of today? It's the same I get the same read on this generation as I did like gone in 60 seconds. Felt felt with the kids with the black lowriders felt not too dissimilar to today, to today. I felt like wow, the 70s really are this pivotal point where we haven't grown up. We've we've really stayed in this sort of thing.
SPEAKER_05Find an answer. That's the thing. Like, there's it what we know is we're no longer satisfied with cops, the government, even though authority, authority, systems, still there's structure, systems, racial segregation, that kind of stuff, right? But we don't so even these guys, these white men, don't exactly know how to not be racist and sexist and that kind of thing, and yet they know they want to be moving towards it.
SPEAKER_04No, towards what the racial equality, yes. So no, but hold on, Kowalski is he's not he's not racist. I mean, I don't know.
SPEAKER_05I'm saying the films and themselves, like they are promoting racial uh integration for sure. Yeah, like the the dated way they're doing it shows sort of the clunky relationship. I'm just saying, I'm saying it's all part of it, yeah. But I'm saying they're moving towards the I still say the 70s is more honest than today. I fine, I totally agree, I totally agree, but I'm just saying they seem to be moving towards this, right?
SPEAKER_04But they start on the flawed premise that the hero is right, and he's not, yeah, he's not because he's still he's still pushing the limits with the guy. Okay, the the guy in the jaguar is an asshole. But Kowalski takes it to the point where he nearly kills him, right? And then then the cops are chasing him. And so I'm like, okay, so Kowalski does start at a at a point of he's in the wrong, and what he's the closest one to being right, which is so funny.
SPEAKER_05Like of all three, like all three are wrong, and yet there are heroes.
SPEAKER_03So again, well, I don't know if I don't know if that ties in all three movies.
SPEAKER_04I don't know if Gone in 60 Seconds is a hero. Well, I I can't go along with that.
SPEAKER_05Well, no, but I'm just saying from the perspective of the film. Sure.
SPEAKER_03That's a mean god uh uh Maandrian Pace seems to be what will eventually be. Let's just say that. What a great name. Right. Uh if let's let's assume Gilbrock Benton.
SPEAKER_01Gilbrock Benton, chest rockwell. Really, what the hell?
SPEAKER_03You know, whatever.
SPEAKER_05Doesn't flow out of anyone's mouth, but everybody's I think that's well, think of the director, H.
SPEAKER_03P. Halicki. I think he just has a thing for that. He's just kind of uh I think okay, so I uh I well I think in a sense you're answering it because these guys don't. Maybe they don't have that definite. Somehow the idealism, you know, there was an end game to what we wanted to do. Kowalski, maybe at one time, you know, I'm gonna serve my country, I'm gonna serve my God, my country. It's you know, it's going to be John Wayne at Iwo Jima, but you're fighting an entirely different war, and you're coming back, you know, many men coming back broken, cynical, broken physically, broken emotionally. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_04But he's not Billy Jack. He's not pushed to it by the man. He's he causes it. It's his fault. That's the that's the my issue with all three films. It's their fault.
SPEAKER_03So he causes it. He causes it, and maybe that's just the part of the problem. You've got these guys that have like this inarticulate rage within them. They don't know what to do with it.
SPEAKER_05Aaron Powell But it's funny because the films don't articulate it either. So the cars are these extensions of these men.
SPEAKER_03Which is possible. I mean, maybe that was something that they were trying to do. You know, this is this this becomes the I guess the vehicle, no pun intended, of whatever it is that they're they're dealing with, their rage. I mean, their identity is in the challenger, their identity is in Eleanor, their identity is in whatever car they're driving. Because that seemed to be a theme of the 70s. That idea of these things that were changing, whether it was a period piece like the Ballad of Cable Hogue, you know, you're you're seeing this bygone era. Uh I know it's crazy, but you know, the the the old ways, and it's just the the people that somehow weren't prepared for it. I don't know.
SPEAKER_05Well, when are you ever prepared for it? But again, this idea that this is how this is how men are dealing with it really became this like very right, Dukes of Hazard and Burt Reynolds. Just like this became so popular that those are kind of like the Walmart versions of Vanishing Point.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, don't you find it funny though? Yes, so that you know, we maybe these are movies that are searching for men. What is a man? What really is a man?
SPEAKER_05I think men are searching for men.
SPEAKER_03What men are searching for men, so we settle on Smokey, or we s settle on the bandit, we settle on Bo and whoever from Well, those answers are slightly easier than what Kowalski potentially could represents, which is Exactly. It's almost as if, you know what, let's just have a good time. Yeah. You know, forget all that other heady stuff. Forget all the thinking and whatnot. But it's still there.
SPEAKER_04So you're not going to push Bert Reynolds around. You're not going to tell Bert Reynolds what to do. It's still ba it basically boils down to that. And it and in Kowalski.
SPEAKER_05Even if I'm wrong, you're not going to tell me what to do. That's cool. That's Kowalski's.
SPEAKER_03And I think we see that beginning in these three movies. Where forget about being altruistic, forget about being, you know, helping my fellow man. Forget about doing the working for the greater good of community, of our tribe, of our family. Well, okay, so there's Kowalski. I'm out to grab what I want.
SPEAKER_04I think there's Kowalski who's given up because the system doesn't work. He tried. He played it their way. He went to Vietnam. He tried to follow the rules. It was corrupt. So I I like that one the best. At least it had a tangible reason. I mean, I still think, well, in the end, he started all the crap. So I don't quite get I don't quite. I mean, that that's a missing link, but whatever. They could have you could spin it to where it wasn't his fault, and then I'd get it.
SPEAKER_05You know, he's his fault, and it just he does not give a fuck.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_05Like he doesn't give a fuck that it's his fault because even when things aren't his fault, he gets fired from the police force, he loses a war, whatever.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_05So that's what Kowalski is like things.
SPEAKER_04He's the most tangibly interesting to me. Um, gone in sixty seconds. I'm actually curious, Roseanne, why did you like it the best? Uh, because I was about to give up on it until the chase. I was just about to go, oh, the hell with this. This is it.
SPEAKER_05In all honesty, like of the three, like Kowalski, I I felt like Vanishing Point, and you both can get mad at me for this, and I can understand that, doesn't quite seal the deal. Like, I feel like it promises more. So, therefore, when it delivers at the end, I felt a little bit more um, I forget the feeling you've been cheated, like that kind of feeling, as opposed to gone in 60 seconds, which was just like whoa, this is just now this is just shifted straight into a car movie, and it's got like a DJ. It's got I you know, it's still got a lot of the elements of Vanishing Point. It's got people on the you know, Schmoes on the street, it's got um Grace, and it's got uh secretary named slash crook slash girl named Pumpkin, which is awesome. And then him just driving in that wig with that mustache. I was like, honestly, I feel like this is the most satisfying, like it doesn't raise as many questions as vanishing point, and it has a much more like just sort of satisfying middle of the road. I'll have two hot dogs with mustard and ketchup kind of feeling.
SPEAKER_01I I would have to agree with that. I mean that well, I don't know. I'd say it's I don't know. I gotta give credit.
SPEAKER_04That that two hot dogs, that's a five hot dog with with sauerkraut and relish and the works. I mean, that's the even still, that's the biggest car chase I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_05No, it actually is interesting, and I'm not some like car chase nerd, for God's sake, you know, and I'm a little bit more than a lot of things.
SPEAKER_03It's my least favorite genre. Yeah, but it's the audacity in which he put that movie together. And apparently he was just doing it at the on the seat of his pants. Obviously. I think of a certain Gino Kopudi who tells us movies are like building models, and this guy is building a model every single day. And apparently his life even then was at peril in the making of that movie. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04That scene where he knocks over the post on the freeway. And I you could tell that I was like, wow, you know he really. I know just watching it, yeah. I'd be I didn't have to read about him. Like, I'm I'm sure that was just a mishap, and it looks great. It was. It was.
SPEAKER_03And the funny thing is, apparently they had to like get the car fixed so we can get back, and let's hope that Caltrans doesn't put the post back so we lose continuity. And thank God for government, you know, bureaucracy and stupidity they're gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_05There is something about the spirit of that movie, and again, I do like this idea. This is sort of you know talking to us about police states in a way too. Like both of these things are like making their police forces stronger and better. And although I think Dirty or Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry's is is dumber in the sense like what, so they can all just be like motorheads and drive like their cops, were just completely misguided and goofy. But I did think all of the municipal stuff with the mayor and the mayor, and the actual mayor of cars opening a substate.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05Very funny. I really enjoyed the details on that and uh the other racers. I'm just like, okay, for whatever reason, I was like, well, if we're if we're just looking at it as car movies and not even as extensions of masculinity and what this means about the 70s, then for me, it's that one.
SPEAKER_04I think too amateurs for me. I kind of like the amateur.
SPEAKER_05It seems more punk rock than the others, honestly.
SPEAKER_04It is. I'm gonna go with the creeping terror territory. This goes into this goes into Ed Wood. It's like there's there is for 40 minutes, there's no sync sound.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but then to have it become like operatic and it's crazy shit with the the card chase.
SPEAKER_04No, the card chase is phenomenal. It it really is.
SPEAKER_03But having those two parts, sorry, Alex, you know how we've talked about how like the uh people like Tarantino and Paul Thomas Anderson really understand LA. This guy understand, understood that the the industrial, the dirty, filthy, you know, and it's not really LA, the outskirts, all those.
SPEAKER_04Harbor, Harbor Boulevard, and all that. And and what what's so interesting is the just crisp, clean, precise unity of action. This guy's a great, because you look at these. I've you know, I I I always pick on Fast and the Furious, but there's a I saw this Guy Ritchie movie on Netflix with a big ass car chase, or no, no, uh, Michael Bay. Uh the one of these movies made it for Netflix, but just just non like just you watch it and you're just like enough. I I don't care. This movie had an A to B.
SPEAKER_00But there's nothing about the new thing.
SPEAKER_04Just the details of of the Cadillac getting hit in the dealership and smashed. You know, like this this is some pretty heavy-duty stuff he was doing.
SPEAKER_05The fact that they go through so much shit, like when he really does roll into that gas station or car wish at the very end, and the wheel is just wobbling and it is knocked to shit. I was like, what happened to your car?
SPEAKER_04I was like, what's genuinely almost like cathartic in the sense like a genuine laugh when the woman sees her smashed car when she sees her smashed car.
SPEAKER_01So and the manager, the point of smashed car.
SPEAKER_05I feel like it delivers the most fully. Well, it does.
SPEAKER_04I mean, it does in terms of in terms of wow, in terms of the wow factor for sure.
SPEAKER_03And the way he ends the movie, I can't remember what he's you know, when he's driving alongside the board. We're gonna yeah, or Billy. Or Billy, right. Yeah, or better luck next time.
SPEAKER_05No, he's like, see around, or whatever, see you next time, I think is what it is.
SPEAKER_03That Cadillac catching on fire at the end.
SPEAKER_01Just the fact that they're cool with whatever. We're gonna go to the all they can think about is the party.
SPEAKER_05Which I loved. I was like, okay, I think their attitude is aspirational, and I feel like that's the closest to whatever.
SPEAKER_03And why it resonates today. It's just like, okay, you know, your mom's car is total. Who cares?
SPEAKER_05Let's get to the party. They're just like, can we get it to the dough? You know, and I was just like, this is all again. I feel like it's it's the the natural in between of Vanishing Point and uh Dirty Mary Crazy Larry that I think.
SPEAKER_04Which is why I stick it in number two.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but I I just think in the end it's the the cleanest.
SPEAKER_04It's not as epic. I I gotta give Vanishing Point an epic quality.
SPEAKER_05I agree, I agree, but then I'm the my big question with Vanishing Point is to what end?
SPEAKER_04And I liked all the still, it's still no matter what, it's still a travelogue through the American mindset of 1971 in a really focused, beautifully shot, it is really propulsive, propulsive way. Like it okay. I don't love Kowalski. He he's a little flaw flawed in a bad way, and like I don't quite buy his character. Yeah, but in terms of like I was really impressed at the end was with the sort of cuckling, cackling chickens as as he's dead, and they just sort of look on, rubbernecking, looking on as like waiting for the next big thing. And I thought that that's a pretty good end, that's a pretty good cultural commentary of where we are.
SPEAKER_05Well, and especially he's their hero, and then he just dies, and they don't even it's nothing internalized with the thing.
SPEAKER_04Right, they're just waiting for the next one to come along, they just move on to the next. I thought that was a brilliant ending. So I I liked that's what sort of got me like this is this is the best thing since the graduate, you know. I tempered my sort of spaz reaction. But again, I was I get very impatient with I I I know I'm just gonna announce the world. I get really impatient with dust flying in movies. It could be my exposure to Dukes a hazard. I just don't like Yeehaw. We're peeling out and dust is flying in movies. It just so there was tons of that. I'm like, I don't want to so for half the movie. I'm going, curse you, Alex Robertson. I don't want to watch a Yee-haw getaway movie. I just didn't want to see it. And then it then it works, it does morph into something where it's more of a cultural milestone. It does. I give it that. Whereas I think, okay, Gone in 60 Seconds is in the sense just of the sheer audacity of it all. But it is itself.
SPEAKER_03Look what it has spawned. You know that I mean, gosh, you know, we just have to move forward about six years and we get the blues brothers a little bit. And it's way it's way better than the blues brothers. I was like, I can't stand the blues brothers. But that's just, you know, that was, you know, uh obviously that was John Landis's thing. I mean, I think that was his go-to. What do we do? Uh car crashes. Yeah. I mean, he does it in the uh, what is it, American Werewolf in London, like suddenly in Piccadilly Square, you've got a car, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04What what's you know, what it doesn't those m John Landis, that's it's that's a weird introduction to him because he's he just doesn't even seem in that level at all. He's in that he's in the world. I think he's somebody that was the you know, he he's an homage guy, and he his his zaniness doesn't seem brave. It just seems like, oh, he you know, Blues Brothers never seemed like this is amazing filmmaking. It's it just doesn't. This you look at Gone in 60s, yeah. You look at Gone in 60 Seconds and go, Well, that's that's pretty freaking amazing. You know, I I whatever has happened in the first half, forget it.
SPEAKER_05Especially for a dude who seemed like the director, seems like he's talking on two phones at once, smoking cigarettes, like you know, like barely hanging on.
SPEAKER_03I loved it so much.
SPEAKER_05We gotta go, we gotta go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, I would say, especially those, I think all three films actually look pretty good.
SPEAKER_03Like But the thing is, I think, too, with HB, am I saying it right? Uh Toby, that was his nickname. Toby Holicki. No. Um, you know, he has an appreciation for the art of the muscle car. I mean, he grew up in that environment. I mean, he had his own with his uncle, his own their own wrecking yard. Sure. And in fact, I think at some point he was arrested as a young man for running a chop shop. So there is something autobiographical about the laying out there.
SPEAKER_01He seems to have an eye for well, you have an eye for detail there, Toby.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I always made sure they were insured.
SPEAKER_01That's a roll. Very careful, very meticulous.
SPEAKER_03We don't just do things. And therein l lies the difference with somebody like him and a John Landis who just, you know, let's throw all caution to the wind, the bigger the better, and just keep making everyone bigger, bigger, bigger.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but there's there's no artist. I just don't find John Landis in the world. And no artistry. That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_05And I do find a lot of artistry in Vanishing Point and Gone in 60 Seconds, honestly. I think both those films, like Vanishing Point is beautifully shot. Like it's a really beautiful film.
SPEAKER_04And I again, I would venture to guess George Miller took a page from that book for As he should. For Mad Max.
SPEAKER_03Well, sure. And Spielberg, it's his favorite movie. And what does Spielberg make three years later? Everything looks shitty? No, no, no. Duel. No. Duel. Duel, but then his first his his major Oh, Sugarland.
SPEAKER_04Sugarland Express.
SPEAKER_03Sugarland Express. Which is interesting because it starts with a car chase, a very short car chase, then it's a slow convoy through Texas. But the car chase is very brief at the beginning of the movie when they commandeer the when when uh William Atherton and Goldie Hahn do take over and take the officer hostage. But then but I do see that same spirit in in some sense, you know. These two people, they just she just wants her child.
SPEAKER_05Well, I can definitely see Vanishing Point in a lot of things. Um that makes a good film. You know, you can see a lot of saving private Ryan in a lot of things. I'm not saying it's not a good film. I liked the film, but I still just felt unsatisfied by it. And not because I like needed there to be a happier ending. I don't know. I think I'm satisfied because I don't think it sets I don't think it fulfills what it sets up.
SPEAKER_04I I think it does. I think it set I think it didn't set up.
SPEAKER_05I think it has more questions because then it knows what to do with.
SPEAKER_04Well again, your your aspirations are for some grand meaning of life, but it for as as a story of the American like friend, not frontier, the the just the coast-to-coast American experience, or at least from front.
SPEAKER_05That is a grand meaning. They make it smaller. I feel like the end makes it smaller.
SPEAKER_04I disagree with that. Why? Because I think it it it tells this tale of of the turmoil uh underneath this be these beautiful golden hills. I think that it's there. It's like, okay, this really is sort of again, it's not as anywhere near Midnight Cowboy for sure. But Midnight Cowboy touches on these themes about the American experience. Okay, let's say he's ripping Midnight Cowboy off, but he for a car chase movie, it's still there.
SPEAKER_05I I get it, but I just here's the thing. I just mean yeah, I get it. I thought that part was great. I liked all the I liked the guy with the snakes, I liked all of it, I liked her on the motorcycle. And he said, you know, but I was just like, some of these are A coincidental to the point where they're hokey, and B, it all feels external to Kowalski. So what what is that saying? There's no beating heart of the film except what's going on around him. That's the interesting stuff. And then we've got the car. So then I think, okay, is the car the the internal structure of this film because it's what's holding him? Like one could argue.
SPEAKER_04Right, it is.
SPEAKER_05Because everything around him of the film is.
SPEAKER_04Everything around him is the beating heart of the American experience in 1971.
SPEAKER_05He is not, he is nothing. So he's literally needing.
SPEAKER_01I don't think. I think he's a lost soul.
SPEAKER_03I I think in a sense, he is, I think he is uh Yuri Jivago. He's really more an observer of everything around him.
SPEAKER_04So I didn't find it hokey with that.
SPEAKER_01I don't think no, I don't think that's hokey but I'm not sure. I think is hokey.
SPEAKER_03He's I really do. He's he's observing. I mean, I really think maybe he's a guy that's looking for his place. You know, he's that kind of person that if he's given a chance, you know, he's changing hairstyles, he's changing clothing choices on a regular basis because he's trying to fit in. Well, this week it's goth. Next week it's punk. But you he can never find I know that's kind of a pedestrian explanation, but that's what I really noticed the second time, you know, or this time around watching the movie, how he's I don't know if he in some ways admires the old prospector played by Dean Jack or like. I think he does.
SPEAKER_05But I also think he admires the hippie, or at least he's that.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, but it's like, where is my place in all of this? And even with some interest watching the revival, watching the music. You know, there's Bonnie Delaney and Brand uh uh um Rita Coolidge. Rita Coolidge, David uh what's his name from uh from Bred playing piano, David Gates, uh Delaney and Bonnie who did uh, you know, I've got a never-ending love for you. I mean, and that great sort of 60s, 70s gospel-inspired white boy RB.
SPEAKER_05But I think it's more about us as observers than him.
SPEAKER_03I don't think that's a problem with the film, though. But do you think we're observing through Kowalski? I don't know. I I I guess maybe that's how I saw it when, you know, because I couldn't really gauge what it was, but he's looking at all these possibilities.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I I I mean he's I feel like he's not a good guy for some reason.
SPEAKER_04He's not no, I wouldn't call him a good guy. He's not he's not a great guy. He's not. He's start he starts the chase. It's his fault. It's right, he's not a victim of circumstance, but he still is the American experience in 1971. And I I think that makes the film better than your Smokey and the Bandit Chase movie.
SPEAKER_05Well, I agree, but I but I just think, you know, as a guide, maybe I just want Virgil as a guide, you know, or something. I guess when I see it, I'm just like, I do see the wishy-washy ambivalence of the American male in Kowalski. But maybe that's something I don't like.
SPEAKER_03Do you think it is in the wake of what has gone on in this country at that point? You know, the you know, and we're just uh you know, we're just what a couple of years away from Watergate. Sure.
SPEAKER_04And he's not really well and again, he's not standing for anything for sure. That's that's the question. And that's what's interesting.
SPEAKER_05And what's why I think so him killing himself.
SPEAKER_04Why does he have to be there early, Alex Robinson? Why does he have to be there? Why does he kill himself to get there early? What's the point? Because that's just only code of honor.
SPEAKER_03That's his only his only code of honor. Yes, thank you. I think uh code of honor or the the the thing, the tangible thing that he can do. You know, well, that's something I know I can do. I can't, I tried. I tried to be a good cop. I I tried to stand up, I get fired. I go to Vietnam, I come back broken. I tried my hand of car racing, I nearly die. I mean, I'm good at all these things, I'm just not great at one thing. You know, I'm uh I'm a jack of all trades, master of none.
SPEAKER_05But also it's just like that I've tried all these ways to be American. And so maybe the only way that I can be truly American is just to do my job and get there on time.
SPEAKER_03And let me ask something. Let me ask you something die doing it. And die doing it. Precisely because I really find his appearance very interesting. The black, you know, the the the white boy fro, uh uh the white shirt, the the the black vest. I think it's an interesting choice. It's like I want, you know, is he is he some sort of uh you know, wandering Semitic, you know, Johnny Cash trying to find his way, you know, the wandering Jew. I know it sounds crazy, but um, you know, this guy.
SPEAKER_05Well, when his name is Kowalski, it sounds considerably less crazy, but it's less crazy.
SPEAKER_04A little bit off the subject here, um, but it's still uh instrumental to our discussion of the 70s.
SPEAKER_05The soundtrack, what?
SPEAKER_04No, gone in 60 seconds. What the fuck is going on with Lyle Wagner?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I don't know. That one of my that now you want to talk about the 70s and you want to talk about a cheese. They talk about his playgirl spread, and then they talk about his car. They could steal his. Did he produce? What the hell is going on with Lyle Wagner? And we get and we get question. We get the neighborhood Cheech and Chung. Hey man, you got any uppers? Hey man.
SPEAKER_05Which should have been cheesy, but I was kind of in, especially because they really looked like that.
SPEAKER_01I thought Lyle Wagner was gonna show up.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, say I thought it was gonna be like um Mad Matt time of whatever anything's the name of the anyway.
SPEAKER_03We got we did get Parnelly Jones, but you know, you have to be a motorhead to understand who he was.
SPEAKER_05But well, I looked him up just because of that hair. I was like, that guy's hair is so bad, he's a real girl.
SPEAKER_03It was a but yeah, there was there was a good seventies comb over right there, baby.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05Talk about how you do a comb over hiding the sins of the past, that hair. Anyway.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, the the old the Oli Bronco, you know, and it's it there is an obsession with those cars. I've got a friend that's got a what they call the bicentennial bronco, and he that thing is worth like $150.
SPEAKER_05Well, I did like the vibe too. It's just like, yeah, I'm gonna steal all these things. It doesn't really matter, and I'm gonna happily sell them to this Argentinian gangster, and I don't give a shit.
SPEAKER_04You'd wonder why a studio chief didn't see that footage and go, okay, let's fix the the beginning. You know, it just seems like this could all be fixed with ADR, I mean good ADR, where the lips actually line up with the dialogue and and you know, reshoot the scene in the park where they're completely out of focus the whole time, the whole time.
SPEAKER_05But if it had, I don't think it would be as interesting of a film. Then then the dumb dialogue would seem even worse. But the fact that it is out of focus, the fact that you've got nothing but the most hilariously basic exposition and it's all not synced, and it's all it almost like lends itself to this kind of distortion that was this the only thing that's real, is this great, you know, like card chase and is this experience that he has. And so I do think that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_04Anyway, older brother's sister, I didn't like it.
SPEAKER_03I think it's odd that of the three movies, this one really kind of represents, you know, and not just the movie itself, but the man behind the movie. Yeah, I mean the whole sort of American roll up your sleeves, nothing's gonna stop me. I remember reading about some kid that became one of the top stunt coordinators in Hollywood who met Halikki as a young boy and said, everything about that guy, he had such an ego, yet you never doubted he was gonna get it done. Till he did. He was crushing.
SPEAKER_01Until he died.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, right. God, that water tower. Uh so are we comparing the performances or well, yeah, we can perform it.
SPEAKER_04I still think have we resolved it? We're never gonna resolve it because it doesn't resolve itself. We are never gonna resolve the issues of the 70s into the eighties because they never get resolved.
SPEAKER_05I don't think what we're gonna have to do is just you know, film by film tradition.
SPEAKER_04Well then so wait, hold on. Because so it goes from this to the Road Warrior, basically, or Mad Max. It basically goes from this to Mad Max into the 80s of post-apocalyptic hell because of nuclear fear, right? And then it never resolves.
SPEAKER_05And because of our experience with war, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And remember, these movies are really kind of being made uh right on the cusp of the whole oil embargo. I was gonna say definitely about oil scarcity. With with Mad Max and the Road Warrior, the idea of the So does it resolve itself given George Miller out there in Australia?
SPEAKER_04Taken into it.
SPEAKER_05It doesn't. Because George. Well, hold on.
SPEAKER_04Road Warrior is a perfect film in my much better than these little building blocks. Road Warrior is my favorite car movie. If if I'm gonna like a car movie, it's that one.
SPEAKER_05Well, I I agree. I don't know because.
SPEAKER_04So I think maybe it did resolve itself.
SPEAKER_03But you don't have, yes, I think you have to have, you know, you've got to have the pioneers like the Kowalskis or even somebody like Burger.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so the what they do is they become the issues resolve themselves. And what does because Road Warrior realizes that you can't be selfish, that you actually do eventually have to deal with the society to survive. Then yes, because it seems like it doesn't stay there.
SPEAKER_04No, no, because you never like human beings, they never leave well enough alone and they read mad backing on Thunderdome.
SPEAKER_05I was just gonna say, and then next thing you know, you're in Thunderdome. Right.
SPEAKER_04But you at one point we reach a perfection in this theme.
SPEAKER_05I agree. Okay, so then for a second, it resolves itself when people realize one more time you need other people, dummy. And that's the only way you're going to survive.
SPEAKER_04Because I know I know my friend Alex up there in the corner is gonna say Kowalski Rakinowski. Rakentowski. What's Max's last name? Rakinski. Do you think he's even drawing that parallel there?
SPEAKER_03It's possible. It's possible. A lot of the the style in which the movies are shot.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I even think a lot of what we see in Dirty Mary Crazy Larry, a lot of the car chases, there's there's a big influence there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I was impressed on a technical level with the helicopter, but I didn't love it. I didn't go, wow, that was amazing. It wasn't.
SPEAKER_05And the helicopter became way more of a thing than it even needed to be. I'm like, how long are we going to talk about the helicopter before it even gets on the screen, for God's sake? That was insane.
SPEAKER_01Then it runs out of gas.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was just like in more ways than one. Anyway, I do think George Miller potentially I could see him taking Kowalski's journey and then giving it more of an existential spiritual. He does. Yeah. He does. So then I then I agree with that. I agree with you, Gina.
SPEAKER_04So uh oh, they made up. All right. So now that I'm right again, uh, let's go into performance. So of the three anti-heroes, Alex Robertson, who's your favorite? It's gotta be Kowalski, right?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05Can it be who do we like best in jeans?
SPEAKER_04What's it always do with fashion with you? It's gotta be their white shirt and black vest. White shirt and black vest. No, but best best character, Roseanne Caputi. Be honest.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Kowalski for sure.
SPEAKER_04But yet you like you like uh Kalikki's film better. I do. But Kowalski's a better character.
SPEAKER_05Kowalski, again, like as I said, I'm not satisfied with all his I'm not satisfied with the non-answers. I'm not satisfied with him as a guide uh in terms of the writing necessarily, but in terms of a presence, I think he's an interesting guy. I do think political whatever. Um Toby. Toby is is you know, he's a squirrely motherfucker and it's fun to watch, but uh he doesn't bring the same uh he's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_04He's just again, I I'm too distracted by the bad filmmaking because he needed he needed better close-ups, he needed better filmmaking around.
SPEAKER_05You barely see him.
SPEAKER_04Like I have he's a he's a specter, he you just don't quite get what he's about to do.
SPEAKER_05Like I was trying to show Raphael him and his wig and his mustache because I was like, this is good stuff, and it took forever to get to the next scene of him. Coffee with a fork. Yeah, I was just like, there's just not enough of him, honestly. Yeah, um, and so I I will say Kowalski. Let me just say, I do think Peter Fonda is looking cool, obviously. I like that is an iconic, me too.
SPEAKER_04I like the spaz laugh, and it's he that's the film does not live up to the promise of his spaz laugh.
SPEAKER_05I agree. I feel like Peter Fonda was up for it, yeah, and they just didn't give him the thing to do.
SPEAKER_04Like Susan George. And for fuck's sake, she couldn't help do an English or American accent. Just make her from England.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was like, why can't she spent time in Europe? Great, just have her be from there. No, that's it.
SPEAKER_04She was chewing on the American accent, it's terrible. Yeah, she was.
SPEAKER_03Uh your friend is a dazzler.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, D-A, Double Z, L E R.
SPEAKER_05That anyway. Uh, Peter Fonda, I think, would have been cool if they if they had made any of his stuff even matter. Like if he had gone from dumb to psycho, you know, like he should have, uh, when he like pushes her down and made it seem like it was even a threat.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he there he was not nearly mean enough for sure.
SPEAKER_05No, no, he should have been dumb and mean as shit.
SPEAKER_04No, it's it was a chicken shit movie. Sorry, Albert.
SPEAKER_05And Adam Rourke. Since you made it, he was interesting.
SPEAKER_04He was interesting, except he's already you got a bad taste in your mouth from his psycho dealings with the woman in the shower. Yeah, that was weird. You can't root from it, but he was an interesting screen presence. I'll give him that.
SPEAKER_03I just wish he was one of those actors that never really caught on. I mean, he really was you know, I always think of uh Bradley Cooper in Licorice Pizza, you know, I'm from the streets. I mean, you know, you catch me, I'm from the streets. Adam Rourke was literally from the streets. I mean, he came up, he was in a gang in New York. He was he was the real deal and found solace in movies, and he was doing all those Roger Corman biker movies. That's how he got connected with the likes of Jack Nicholson and Peter Fonda, but it was unfortunate that, you know, I I guess he was up for one of the roles in Easy Rider, but he said, I don't want to do any more biker movies. I want to, you know, it's just one of those unfortunate things. And he eventually became an acting teacher and he gave us Lou Diamond Phillips. I kid you not. Yeah. Well, yeah, he was a teacher, and that was one of his stories.
SPEAKER_04And I'm not gonna say anything mean about Adam Rourke, except the the movie let him down too.
SPEAKER_05I feel like they were misused, miss you know, like underused.
SPEAKER_04There was something there about uh with him and Mary, and it just didn't nothing gelled. Nothing gelled.
SPEAKER_05It just I will say Barry Newman.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Newman? Is that right? Yeah, anyway, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Same, same here. I like Barry Newman the best. And I liked Vanishing Points.
SPEAKER_05And he was used to the best effect.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So yeah. How about the uh before we go on, the the infamous missing scene from Vanishing Points? I don't know.
SPEAKER_04Did you watch it, Roseanne?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I watched it.
SPEAKER_04What do you think? Too much? Too much?
SPEAKER_05I thought it was I feel like though that wasn't I don't know. I thought it was fine.
SPEAKER_03I can see why they cut it. The night before the day of the end.
SPEAKER_05But for some reason it doesn't seem like his style. I don't know. Right.
SPEAKER_03It it does feel like a style. But the thing is it breaks with him. Women are such a you know, really but the role of women in Kowalski's life, it's very interesting. Is it? No, no. I think so. You know, the the girlfriend that dies, uh the the blonde, the godiva, even the uh the the the the the sheriff station, it's all women that are you know, we're gonna do what you couldn't do, we're gonna put a stop to him.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_03I mean, it's all blonde women. I found that that's an interesting choice. I mean, women seem to be.
SPEAKER_05Is it uh Yes, it is. Blonde women. What a what an edgy, thought-provoking choice.
SPEAKER_03No, but it's just like why do they do it? I mean, why? You know, and you've got this swarthy looking dude with his, you know, somewhat interesting Semitic looks.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you feel like it's answered.
SPEAKER_05Is that what you're saying? And yet also leading to his demise?
SPEAKER_03I'm just asking.
SPEAKER_05That's the thing. It's just like I don't you know.
SPEAKER_03You say that these movies raise questions and there's a question. But that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_05With the women, I didn't. I'm like, am I getting enough from the women or even from the black characters where and let's look, shout out to John Amos for looking cool. Um, but I just I was happy to see John Amos.
SPEAKER_04His part was a little contrived. I I will say that.
SPEAKER_05Who?
SPEAKER_04Cleve on Little.
SPEAKER_05Really contrived.
SPEAKER_04What is this guy doing out in the middle of the Nevada desert?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. I think they were.
SPEAKER_05This is where I thought some of it, I was like, this feels hokey. I thought a lot of his dialogue was pretty hokey.
SPEAKER_03Ah, I like that he was used again.
SPEAKER_05You know what they were going for?
SPEAKER_03I like that he was used against Kowal. Is he like a Tiresias character, the blind leading the hero? Yeah, but he gets being used.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but he even says blind leading the blind. Yeah, yeah. I roll. I roll.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh. But it was true.
SPEAKER_03He was blind. They say that. You know, being blind in the movie is no different than being blind in real life.
SPEAKER_05It's just like, we got the metaphor. This is why the there was plenty of that in that movie. It's not like it was all cool.
SPEAKER_02No, it did have metaphor.
SPEAKER_04Though he was the paradigm for the the Warriors and and you know, uh the other one.
SPEAKER_03Um that that white challenger became such a white challenger became a a big to-do in in Hollywood lore. Right, right. Anyway, Tarantino, but Right.
SPEAKER_04Alright. Um I I'm gonna oh so best supporting character, Alex Robertson. In oh let's just go each movie. Good. Give me the best supporting character in Vanishing Point. Snake Man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh Dean Jagger. Yeah, because I felt that Dean Jagger really was a well, you know, uh a realized part, if that's what I'm looking for. You know, and he wasn't just a caricature, he seemed like the real deal. This is a guy that has lived in this desert for who knows how many years.
SPEAKER_05He seemed like a guy from Vale. Like I really liked him a lot.
SPEAKER_03Something like that. And he no, he would become like something that would be uh inspiration for somebody like George Miller in the Mad Max movies, a guy that's a scavenger, that knows he knows how to work the land, he knows how to get what he needs and to provide you know the services of others. As long as he gets his coffee, as long as he gets his chewing tobacco, he's a good man, he's a happy man. And I and again, and I really think there is that envy in Kowalski looking at that guy because he is the man that gets him out of the desert. Tells him how to get out of the desert, how to get back to the highway, you know. He is whatever that figure is from Greek mythology, the you know, the the old man that knows all, that is seen all. Shecky the Greek. She the Greek.
SPEAKER_01So what you want to do is there's a guy sitting in front of a gas station, and you say to him.
SPEAKER_05I thought even if he didn't envy him, he did really admire him. Like he did stop and see like his his way of living as something valid. Because he does have a lot of people.
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna go with Severin Darden myself. I liked it. Well, he was one of them. Because I I I know who he is. I was like, oh, that's a guy for Planet of the Apes. That's the SOB from Planet of the Apes. So that was cool, you know. So I was happy to see him. And then uh I like that, you know, he had he can play those sleaze balls in his sleep.
SPEAKER_03So I well, and that great scene when he just, you know, our job is to free the viper. I always that scene had such an impact, I don't know what it was. The way he delivers that line and the vipers flying in slow-mo out of the freeing of the vipers. Yeah. Zan, who do you got?
SPEAKER_04Vanishing point.
SPEAKER_05Team Jar.
SPEAKER_04All right. Moving on. Gone in 60 seconds. I I couldn't tell you. Honestly.
SPEAKER_03You know, I gotta give it for uh up to Ronnie McDowell. The small gone in 60 seconds. Wait, wait, oh, I'm sorry. Uh the brother-in-law.
SPEAKER_01That mustache. And just the weasel that he was. He calls the cops.
SPEAKER_05I love that he calls the cops. I love that he's such a playground reading heroine-selling faggot. Oh, sorry. Edit that out.
SPEAKER_04I'm not.
SPEAKER_01You're gonna own the oh, we're gonna be rich. We're gonna be rich.
SPEAKER_04I mean, he really wants to heroin.
SPEAKER_01He wants the heroine. For good sake.
SPEAKER_06Oh, I really liked him.
SPEAKER_03He was. I wanted more of him.
SPEAKER_05I mean actually, I felt like we got enough. I was just like, no, he's just like.
SPEAKER_04I just wanted more of his dialogue synced, is all. I just wanted him to make more sense as a clear-cut character. But anyway, um right, Roseanne?
SPEAKER_05Same.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, same brother-in-law. Well, there's great. There's only five characters in the whole thing. I was gonna say there are so few characters, but uh, I really did love it. I'm gonna, yeah, I gotta go with him as well. And then um sorry. Uh in dirty, Mary, crazy Larry, best supporting character. Roseanne, start with you.
SPEAKER_05Well I guess Vic Morrow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
unknownYou know.
SPEAKER_05It's gotta be. Like like you said, Roddy McDowell's good, fine, but you know, I I like being around, even though it wasn't a really well-written character. I liked being around the Roddy McDowell's.
SPEAKER_04As a kid, I confused him with Paul Lynn. And it still seems like one of those showy performances. Well, because the he worked with the director before.
SPEAKER_03They were directors. But the big ham actor. But I think it was a less hammy performance. That's what I found interesting. He is he's hammed to the bone. I'm gonna go with Vick Morrow.
SPEAKER_04If the two, if we're gonna go with the two supporting players, I would go with Dick Morrow.
SPEAKER_01I'm definitely going Vic Morrow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I do kind of like the uh so where does Adam Murks sit into this? Because he's he's he's a lead, isn't he? It's it shouldn't be dirty Larry, uh Dirty Drinking, crazy Deke, drunken deep, you know, or booze hound, booze hound deep or whatever.
SPEAKER_03I don't know.
SPEAKER_04It feels like he like, wait, you're a lead. Why are you yeah, it's sort of relevant.
SPEAKER_05What did I I read that review? Was that on Wikipedia or something saying, you know, so as a result, I thought Deke was gonna die. Nope, he doesn't. And I was like, right, same. Uh it's yeah, it's really the three of them.
SPEAKER_04I was waiting for him to die in any number of shootouts.
SPEAKER_05Same.
SPEAKER_04And yeah, no, he doesn't. They're to the end, and ends up wooing uh Mary, which is crazy. So yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um also could have been interesting.
SPEAKER_04So who's got the best music? Alex.
SPEAKER_03Uh Vanishing Point. I just like that music.
SPEAKER_02It's it's you know it's from the soundtrack of my life.
SPEAKER_04Roseanne, do you notice any music? I didn't notice any music worth a damn. I like the gospel. Again, I'm gonna give it to Vanish.
SPEAKER_03There was no score. There was no score, it was just really more like for the gospel singers.
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna give it to uh Gone in 60 Seconds for its subtly um sort of pandering funk.
SPEAKER_04That's a re-release deal, though. Apparently it had it actually had a soundtrack that they lost this the rights to. Oh, really? Yeah, they had all these songs that somehow they lost the rights to.
SPEAKER_05See the movie's hilarious.
SPEAKER_03Almost curious to see the remake. Yeah, I gotta see. Yeah, I actually am. It's entire again with Okay, which will probably make us appreciate the original even right. I think so.
SPEAKER_05Reading about it just sounded like one big Okay.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Last, well, not last question, second to last question. Best director, Alex Robertson.
SPEAKER_03Uh Serafini. Mm-hmm. Same. Vanishing point.
SPEAKER_04Roseanne?
SPEAKER_05My man Toby.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's a tough one. That really is a tough one. But I'm gonna go with just with clear vision. Ah, boy, that's that is definitely the finest stunt piece ever put on film for sure. You know.
SPEAKER_03Well, because the guy was, I mean, he really did live his life like that, obviously.
SPEAKER_05They said he was a guy that his vision, though, and commitment. It was like, that is pretty wild. It's wild. It really is. Just watching it.
SPEAKER_03No, he does have movies. Um boarded uh sequel. So I'd be curious to see what he does in those.
SPEAKER_05Anyway, I gotta go with him just for sheer, just like how that, like I've said, that is crazy.
SPEAKER_02Sheer audacity.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, give it to him, but it just points off for the amateur hour in the beginning.
SPEAKER_03But the thing is, you know, he didn't sit around. Okay, and as Roseanne said, it's like uh Steve Jones and uh Paul Cook saying we don't need to know the chords, you know, a thousand chords. We just need to know three chords and we're good, you know? And just sitting in a room amped up on speed and just playing the same chord over and over until the biggest. Till the fingers bleed. Till the fingers bleed, exactly. And then it gave us bono.
SPEAKER_04All right, so the the new question, the burning question is Roseanne Caputi, will you watch any of these films again?
SPEAKER_05Oh, you know, probably not um Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry. I doubt it. Uh let's say if Vanishing Point and Gone in Sixty Seconds were on TV or on someone was watching it, I would watch them. Uh yeah, and I would want to show I would want to show Rafiel. Like, you gotta watch this. This is great. Um Gone in Sixty Seconds. Yeah, I'd watch Vanishing Point and Gone in Sixty Seconds again. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Same. So Alex, you you these are your three favorite childhood films.
SPEAKER_03What uh Vanishing Point and Gone in Sixty Seconds.
SPEAKER_04Have we beaten the love of crazy or dirty merry out of you?
SPEAKER_05Or did it beat it?
SPEAKER_03But no, no, but I never did argue that they are lovable people because they're not. And I really, you know, I never paid attention to it the first time, except you know, they stole a car and then they go on a chase through the walnut groves of Northern California outside Stockton and recognizing a lot of you know, I mean, my work takes me to a lot of those places.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, I can I definitely recognize uh Highway 4 and 60 and uh 160. So I was like, ah, that's funny.
SPEAKER_03Even yeah, even Sutter Creek at the very beginning of the movie. Yeah, and Sonora, it's like, oh wow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean those places. They're all over, they're all over California for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yes, they are. And there is a very unique vibe to Northern California towns. I mean, I want to see somebody do a movie about that. I mean, somehow. I'm your guy.
SPEAKER_04There you go. Yeah, no, I've I've Simon says too. Ah, well, things have turned out a different way, Alex. You'd have been the star.
SPEAKER_03No, no, no. That's I don't act anymore.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Anyway, I live.
SPEAKER_04I live. I do. All right. Well, anyway, there it is. There was a Sterling podcast, everybody. Sterling. Thank you, Alex, for recommending these interesting films. I again, I I have to say, I was gonna curse you. I thought, ugh, you know, these are banjo music movies. I don't want to see them, but they are they are they do oh again, create Dirty Mary.
SPEAKER_03Why do you assume that it's always a banjo movie? I mean, if I would have said Smokey and the Bandit, which I never did, I don't know.
SPEAKER_05In his defense, but honestly, I think I'm so glad I watched these actually, seeing what this what it started out as, and then what it ended as. Uh, with your Dukes of Hazard and your Smoky and the Bandit, just to see, like, okay, this was a totally different vision in the beginning.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And to be honest, I was that kid that when I got my driver's license, went to the dirt fields and kicked up the dust because it was fun.
SPEAKER_01Q banjos.
SPEAKER_05That's where the yeah, I was like, that's where the banjos come in.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, man, it was it was fog hat, baby.
SPEAKER_04All right, thank you, everyone. Um, to you listeners out there like and subscribe to all that baloney. Okay, bye, everybody. Thank you. And keep it under 55, okay? Thank you for listening to Fabulous Film and Friends. Copyright 2025, a Bel Air Films production.