Fabulous Film & Friends
A podcast for the true cineaste. This podcast examines the impact great or memorable films have on us both personally and culturally. If you've ever bonded with someone or joined a lively discussion circle based on your love of cinema, this is the podcast for you.
Fabulous Film & Friends
Ep. # 107 - The Phoenician Scheme: The GREATEST of them ALL!
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On our 107th podcast, we here at the Triple FFF thought we’d try to once again attempt relevance and discuss a current big release, this time Wes Anderson’s 2025 father-daughter high stakes business and espionage caper The Phoenician Scheme starring Benicio Del Toro, Mia Threapleton, Michael Cera, Tom Hanks, Bryan Cranston, Riz Ahmed, Scarlet Johansson, Mathieu Amalric, Jeffrey Wright, Rupert Friend and Benedict Cumberbatch. As well as Mr. Anderson’s troupe of good-natured bit players and walk ons which includes Bill Murray, F. Murray Abraham, Wilem Dafoe and now Charlotte Gainsbourg.
I’m your host Gino Caputi and my guests this week are the always dependable show regulars Joe Field, David Johnson DMD and Gordon Alex Robertson
The Phoenician Scheme’s plot unfolds as follows:
After surviving yet another assassination attempt, this time with a glimpse of the afterlife, wealthy arms dealer and industrialist Anatole Zsa-Zsa Korda realizes his days are numbered and possibly without purpose. Hoping to reconnect with his estranged daughter Liesl—now on the verge of taking her final vows as a Catholic nun—he names her the sole heir to his estate. In exchange for long-withheld truths about her mother’s murder, Korda convinces Liesl to accompany him on a whirlwind journey to secure funding from several colorfully shady investors for his grand, multi-layered Phoenician Scheme—plans for which are ingeniously stored in a series of shoeboxes.
Where does this film rank within Wes Anderson’s collection of stories about larger-than-life, big talking fathers of dubious emotional and financial sincerity?
Find out!
Watch the video podcast on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/QVYj2zTif5o
And now it's time for fabulous filming friends. On our 107th podcast, we here at the Triple F thought we'd try to once again attempt relevance and discuss a current big release. This time it's Wes Anderson's 2025 father-daughter high-stakes business and espionage caper, The Phoenician Scheme, starring Benicio Del Toro, Mia Threppleton, Michael Serra, Tom Hanks, Brian Cranston, Reese Ahmed, Scarlett Johansson, Mathieu Almeric, Jeffrey Wright, Rupert Friend, and Benedict Cumberpatch. As well as Mr. Anderson's troop of good-natured bit players and walk-ons, which include Bill Murray, F. Mur Abraham, Stephen Park, Willem Defoe, and now Charlotte Gainsburg. I'm your host, Gino Kaputi, and my guests this week are the always dependable show regulars Joe Field, David Johnson DMD, and Gordon Alex Robertson. Welcome, gents. Thank you. Thanks. Alex? I got nothing. Do you have any dry deadpan witticisms to add before we commence with the synopsis?
SPEAKER_05Joe, how about you? My mind is like a Phoenician landscape. Dry, arid. I got nothing. But it's ready. It's ready. It's fertile. It's ready for whatever.
SPEAKER_01So I was just hoping Alex, I wouldn't be on the spot because Alex was here. For the last few that Bert and I did. Come on, Alex.
SPEAKER_05Uh-oh. I I you know, I watching that movie, I'm thinking to myself, he's gonna put me on the spot. What can I do? Oh, if I could only do a great Benedict Cumberbatch. Oh, if only I could, you know, just just just just you know, reel off that Wes Anderson wit. But I got nothing. I I I don't want to demean or or diminish this this wonderful moment for all of us. Oh, you've done that. Our brothers. Yeah, well, see, I don't want to do it anymore. All right.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_05I don't want to be cousin Oliver, okay? So let's move on.
SPEAKER_03The Phoenician scheme's plot unfolds as follows. After surviving yet another assassination attempt, this time with a glimpse of the afterlife, wealthy arms dealer and industrialist Anatole's Ja Jacorda realizes his days are numbered and possibly without purpose. Hoping to reconnect with his estranged daughter Liesl, now on the verge of taking her final vows as a Catholic nun, he names her the sole heir to his estate. In exchange for long withheld truths about her mother's murder, Corta convinces Liesl to accompany him on a whirlwind journey to secure funding from several colorfully shady investors for his grand multi-layered Phoenician scheme, plans for which are ingeniously stored in a series of shoeboxes. Where does this film rank within Wes Anderson's collection of stories about larger than life big talking fathers of dubious emotional and financial sincerity? Find out. Okay. Alex, I'm not gonna pick on you first. David Johnson. Thumbs up, thumbs down.
SPEAKER_01Uh, thumbs up.
SPEAKER_03Alright. Uh I know I've asked you this before. We've even talked about other Wes Anderson films. Where does this rank in your mind in the Wes Anderson canon?
SPEAKER_01You know, um I really like this one. I thought it was a um a great story, and we'll talk, I'm sure, about the underlying deeper meaning, but it's actually one of my favorite ones.
SPEAKER_03Did you see it? Were you part of the asteroid? I don't even remember. Were you part of the asteroid city?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I like it. I like it. I mean, I like Asteroid City, I like this one better. Um the whole look of the film was fantastic, and the story and the transformation of uh Benecio was I mean, it was awesome. I thought it was great, and I laughed out loud in many parts in it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Same. Joe Field, how familiar, I can't remember, forgive this aging brain. I can't remember how versed you are in the Wes Anderson lineup, but where does this stand?
SPEAKER_02Uh not super well versed. I think the only other movie that I've seen is um Fantastic Mr. Fox, um, which is quite a bit different from this one, I think. Um, and that was many, many years ago. Um I recalled liking that movie quite a lot, so it's hard for me to say which one I liked more, but I I did like both both of them. Um I think maybe a Fantastic Mr. Fox maybe a little bit higher just because I remember it fondly when I watched it.
SPEAKER_03Sentimental value.
SPEAKER_02I think so.
SPEAKER_03I mean, it's hard for me to remember, but So you haven't seen Royal Tenen Bombs or the Life Aquatic or anything where this skirts in the I mean this is he's like Woody Allen or Scorsese at this point. He's he sort of meditates on the same idea over and over. So this I mean, this is kind of I mean, if if you wanted to put on a jaded cynical hat, you could easily say, oh, it's the same movie, he always does. You know. Which is an interesting thing because what's the difference between Fast and the Furious 7 and an Autour who always sort of is hung up on the same idea? So we'll we can discuss later. But thumbs so thumbs up, thumb, so obviously thumbs up. Thumbs up. Alex Robertson, you are well versed. I know that for a fact in the Wes Anderson Ouv. So uh how does how do you rank this? Uh such highlights as the Royal Tannin Bombs, Life Aquatic, Fantastic Mr. Fox, Rushmore, Bottle Rocket.
SPEAKER_05I think it is uh at the pinnacle. I think it's running neck and neck with uh the Life Aquatic and uh the Grand Budapest. Um in fact, I the more I think about this movie, just uh, and I think Dave hit upon it the best. I mean, this this this hero's journey, which was so darn satisfying. I mean, it really was, I think for me it was one of the most pretty close, most satisfying Wes Anderson movies, the ending. Uh right up there with you know Bill Murray uh in The Life Aquatic. You know, there's there there's like this wow, you know, you you know, as you can see, you can watch a movie, you you either have your doubts or you're laughing, you're not really sure, but you get to the end and you're so satisfied that you sat through it. Uh I guess it's like reading a good novel. Maybe you don't grasp it in the beginning, but then you get to the end and you're like, wow, I'm really glad I read that book. You know? Yeah. It tied itself up. And this movie gives us that wonderful, you know, uh pastel-colored Wes Anderson bow in big bright blue and yellow colors. So, yeah, it's it's it's one of the best. I'm gonna say it right now, in terms of Wes Anderson's oeuvre.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh, I have to see it again. Just like with Asteroid City, I sort of not that I'm undecided, I liked it a lot, but in terms of ranking, I don't know yet. Because I I you know I I've only seen it once, and there's a lot to chew on. And just like with Asteroid City, I thought I thought it was actually sort of a flip. So, okay, backing up. So around 2000, what what do you do? Fantastic Mr. Fox, he did that what, 2009? 2009, yeah. So 2009? So he's got that one, which is sort of a deviates from his standard separ isolated children from their parent, from their lar big talking father. Even though there's a big talking father, there's a full family in that film. So we don't we have a kid, Ash, or whatever his name is, and he's got an estranged or tense relationship with his father, but he has a father. Then he does Moonrise Kingdom, right? Is that correct, Alex? Moonrise Kingdom comes next.
SPEAKER_05Somewhere it's it's their personality.
SPEAKER_03So he deals with kids. I don't think the parent issues were at at much at play in Moonrise Kingdom. Then he does what? Then he does the Grand Budapest. Parents again were father figures, yes, but parents weren't the thing.
SPEAKER_05But there was a hint of that that uh we see in the Phoenician scheme at the beginning of the movie when you have the historian or narrator played by Tom Wilkinson, and he's talking, and then he suddenly looks off camera. Don't do that! And the thing with the kid.
SPEAKER_03Oh, you're talking about Grand Budapest.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Grand Budapest, thank you. Sorry. Uh I don't know what I said.
SPEAKER_03Uh you said Phoenician scheme.
SPEAKER_05Uh well, the both movies. But um that same kind of uh vibe, that same kind of feel in the Phoenician scheme when Lisell comes to the house for the first time and she meets her brother. You know, her brothers are all sitting up on the balcony, you know, and the flying arrows. That was there's certainly something there. There's there's that I guess, you know, children that are just um Okay, well, wait, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_03Hold on. Let's let's stop for a second.
SPEAKER_05Okay, I'll stop.
SPEAKER_03You gotta assume some givens now at this point in hit like Woody Allen and and his impotence jokes. There's there's a given, there's a given in a Wes Anderson film at this point. You're gonna have strained family relationships, you're gonna have philosophical underpinnings, metaphysical philosophical underpinnings, and then you're gonna have Bugs Bunny type jokes, Bugs Bunny type visual guys.
SPEAKER_05I think they're the they're definitely there, but it's also, I think, you know, the young child competing for the father's attention.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You know, there's definitely that. I mean, it it you see it in uh the Grand Budapest at the beginning, and he carries on with that in the Phoenician scheme.
SPEAKER_03And you know, and that really is a Let me finish my treatise. Let me finish my treatise. The idea is he sort of veered from the f the sort of Royal Tenenbaum's uh life aquatic formula for a bit, and now he's back with a lot with asteroid city, and so this feels like a flip side of asteroid city. So in where Asteroid City, you've got outer space and unexplained phenomena in an external world or the physical world, and then then in this in the and you have child geniuses, sort of a repeat, but you've got so you've got prodigies and and exploring the physical, and this time we get into the philosophical, spiritual, faithful uh sort of existential questions. So I thought I thought this it does feel like okay, they they feel they feel more polished, cinematography, filmmaking, jokes, sight gags are funnier than ever. Um and yet they're these move they feel more serious to me. If again I have to see uh Royal Tenen Bombs again. It's been a while since I've seen it. And I I would I like that, but it wasn't ever a favorite. I didn't love it, so I I don't know why, because everybody loves that one. Um Joe, just in case you're wondering, it's Gene Hackman playing the sort of disappointing father. But still, still he's still there for his kids if he's not ex when he's not exploiting them. But um anyway, I don't know. I just thought this is there. My point is there's a certain maturity in the last two films I've noticed. A maturity of both like uh precise, you know, laser focused, precise comedy gags, like you know, like like he really has perfected this um cartoon, live-action cartoon physical comedy. For example, Benicio del Toro running towards the camera, and Benedict Punch Comerbatch pulling the carpet. The rug outreach. Yeah, flies toward the camera, and then you got the reverse shot of the feet towards the camera. You know, you know, that's just that's Bugs Bunny, right? You know, that's Chuck Jones for sure.
SPEAKER_05Well, that whole fight is one of the best, funniest fights I've seen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, it's funny.
SPEAKER_05And it's still in energy.
SPEAKER_03And again, it started, I I really started noticing it in Grand Budapest, right? Where they had the ski chase. Yeah. Where like it's become okay, now he's clearly going in for this absurd physical. I mean, it was starting in life aquatic with the sort of crazy gunfights. You know, the the hell for leather gunfights where it doesn't matter, they doesn't matter if they're running out of bullets, they just keep shooting, you know. So it started there and then just store snowballed into okay, now it's really pinprick, like exactly precise physical comedy that looks like and like almost looks like an animated movie. Would you agree with that? anybody, Dave? You can agree with that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm uh the thing that I appreciated is so if I remember right, this film was set in the 30s, correct?
SPEAKER_0350s, 90s.
SPEAKER_01Oh, 50s. Okay. I thought I for for some reason I thought it was in the 30s, so never mind. But I did I did laugh when the jet comes flying by and I'm like, wait a minute. This is total like you know, cartoon. Anacronism?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, I thought it was like a jet fighter of the 50s, yeah. It was like a big fighter.
SPEAKER_01But I thought I thought the film was in the 30s because that's how the film felt, you know, to me. And I for some reason I missed that it was in the 50s, but uh I still appreciated it, and I'm like, oh, it's just Wes Anderson being Wes Sanderson, even you know, but I guess I'll just re-redact what I just said because it's in the 50s.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Well, I think you've got all that great, all the great gadgetry that the lie detector, the lie detector, the the teletype machine or whatever the town. Brilliant stuff, you know, again. And and and I can't help but thank uh uh Brad Bird and the Incredibles. It just really has that kind of like you said, in a really clean story. Yeah. I I think I'd have to agree. This is what really stood out for me in this movie was just how cohesive. Not that he isn't, but it really seems like, yeah, it's everything seemed much more laser focused. Everything happened for a reason. And I don't think you could say that, you know, he has extraneous shots, but it just felt much cleaner than say uh Well, his artistry, I'd say the artistry is way up there, you know.
SPEAKER_03Like I mean, think about it. This isn't a lot different from Bottle Rocket in the sense that you know it still starts with Owen Wilson. But Joe, just to get you up to speed, Bottle Rocket's his first big film, or not big film, but his first film. Which so Owen Wilson in that film has this goofy notebook with a 10-year or 15-year plan for success. And it just involves robbing people. Um, but he's got this notebook, so it's still it still hinges on this sort of goofy, childish. Like so, in this case, we got shoeboxes full of information. But it's all the you know, like any artist, you see the the beginnings of where he's where he started, and it it's all it's still there, it's just better. Like it's still kind of meditations on the same idea. Is anybody know, Alex? You're our resident historian. Is he from I don't even know, I know nothing about West Anderson. I've never looked him up, I've never bothered. I just I just watch it. Yeah, I know he's from Texas. I've just pieced everything together. It's from Osmosis, but is he from a broken home? What's his deal? Why why is he like he had Noam Bombach for a while? Now he's got Roman Coppola as uh as a co-writer. Uh so Noah Bombach is there's a guy who never got over his parents' divorce. So he's got the squid and the whale, he's got what's the what's the one with Scarlett Johansson and Adam Driver? What was it? I think it was called The Marriage or something like that.
SPEAKER_05The marriage or something like that. Yeah, yeah. The old you know, so he's what just the breakdown of a of a marriage.
SPEAKER_03Mar what's the one Margot what's the one with uh Nicole Kidman? And uh what's it say? That he did that one. No, he's he you know, or the the what the Ah here we go.
SPEAKER_05So uh when his parents uh when he was eight, his parents divorced. Uh Wes Anderson. So he is the second of three boys, so he's kind of in the meaty part of the hierarchy. Uh, older brother is a physician, younger brother is a writer and artist, so yeah, yeah. It does it like they say, a lot of it comes out uh in his movies, a lot of autobiographical elements coming out.
SPEAKER_03Well, you know, he teamed up with Noel Bombach for sure, who wrote probably the finest film about divorce ever, if you've seen The Squid and the Whale.
SPEAKER_05The Squid and the Whale.
SPEAKER_03Either of you, either of you bald-headed gentlemen seen Squid and the Whale? No. It's kind of funny with me and Alex with our close crop gray hair and you guys with your bald heads.
SPEAKER_01Well, Joe has a little bit. He has hair on top. He's got some.
SPEAKER_03I'll shave it next to the roof. Uh yeah. Uh anyway. So anyway, Squid and the Whales, great. So he had Noah Bombach as a writing partner for a bit. I don't know what happened there. I guess Noah Bombach had had greener pastures with Barbie and Greta Gerwig and all that. But um obviously it's a theme. It's the big talking. Is there anything about that? Because all the father figures are of a pattern in the Wes Anderson films. And this one is no different.
SPEAKER_05Well, yeah, there's that distance.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I mean, where were you when I was growing up? And I'm trying to, you know. But this is one with the father trying to make right. Yeah. In his own, in his own clumsy way.
SPEAKER_03Well, they're always I'd say that in every film they are, they are doing that. They are like obviously Gene Hackman is, you know. Um, and then Ste s Bill Murray. Yeah, he it takes his son's death to get him to sort of realize what he lost.
SPEAKER_05Uh and then Well, this one though, it's it's it's what he loses in order to gain, you know? Yeah. I mean, basically his vast fortunes, the way that he makes that sacrifice. Yeah. And it is all for an altruistic purpose. Right. But the most important thing is is the respect of his daughter and his boys. They're all united. They're living, I wouldn't say in poverty, but they seem much happier and much closer as a result of that.
SPEAKER_03No, it's definitely his most storybook ending, I would think.
SPEAKER_05Definitely.
SPEAKER_03Even more than Fantastic Mr. Fox, honestly. Um thoughts, gentlemen? Dave, did you think that was the happiest West Anderson film he seen?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I like the ending, and Alex already hit it nail on the head. I mean, in the end, you know, it's about relationships and and no matter, you know, sacrificing his empire, he realized, you know. And I thought that Cumber, sorry, Benedict Cumberpatch. Right before he comes up on that set, and then he, you know, uhisio says, What you know, wait, I don't remember what he said, and then he has these thoughts of his family, and then he's like, Oh, I'm not gonna kill him, I'm gonna kill myself. And I know that sounds bad, but you know, it was just this um family is most important. That's one of the things I got out of it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, I uh I with Benedict Cumberbatch and uh that whole thing, it was just funny that it basically boiled down to I can lick you. Yeah, that rivalry. It was just you know, that's basically what the business deal venture boiled down to was who can beat up whom, which I thought was funny. Well, let's go around the room real quick. Just just what was the best knee slapper in the film? Dave.
SPEAKER_01Um I I don't have one, but uh every time Michael Searr was on, he just made me laugh. I I I what I when he would speak, and and I like it when they were drinking in the train car. For some reason, it's like, well, I don't drink hard liquor. Oh, and he's in his German accent and he's like, Oh, beer is a hard liquor.
SPEAKER_03Swedish, dude.
SPEAKER_01Oh, Swedish, sorry, yeah. And then after three beers, he's like plastered drunk, and she's not it didn't even phase her. Yeah. But for me, that I like that scene.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. He he well, we'll get into performance, but he was a surprise. Alex, what would you what was your what was your big like moment of hilarity?
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh. Well, the fight between Corda and uh Uncle uh What's his name? Got Kubar or something. Yeah, Kubar, some some some funny name. That I was just kept from laughing because Yes, yes. Well, and here's another great thing. I mean, we know it's gonna be Benedict Cumberbatch, right? So there's always that uh we know, and yet it still defied expectations, just the way with the beard, and I don't know if those were Benedict Cumberbatch's actual eyes, but those piercing eyes, you know, those almost haunted eyes that just stared straight up.
SPEAKER_03Definitely look like Rasputin.
SPEAKER_05He did, yes, he did, and he really just again, I think it's Wes Anderson coaxing these great performances. But I also think people that just want to work with Wes Anderson and and bring their best, nobody's doing anything hokey. Yeah. Um, you know, that and it I guess in lesser hands it could be, oh, here we go, you know, the the mustache twirling arch performance. We've seen it before. But yeah, I have to say the fight. And I think the other scene that had me laughing was Jeffrey Wright. Hey, how are you? You sit here, you sit here, you sit here. No, just his his energy that he brings to the movie. And he always brings something different. You know, that another great thing about these Wes Anderson ensemble players.
SPEAKER_02Joe, what do you got? Um, I think that probably my favorite was in the nightclub. Why are you shooting my the ceiling? Like, I I know you're robbing me. Why are you destroying my nightclub? Like, we'll give you the money. Why are you shooting? Um to me it was just it was, I don't know. I think the revolutionaries were also very funny, um, partly for how gun happy they were. And um, and I think that just like that entire scene just also like cracked me up because it's like, yeah, you you see that in movies where you know they're letting off rounds for no good reason, they're complying and stuff, and it's like, uh, yeah, why are you doing this?
SPEAKER_03He's at this point in all his films, there's a trajectory and and sort of a culture of of absorbing the crew and making them big team. And he, you know, um Wes Anderson is a Buckaroo Bonsai fan. And the movie Buckaroo Bonsai with Peter Weller and whole host Jeff Goldblum and a whole host of people, it ends with the all the people in the film sort of coming toward the camera. Like they first it's just Buckaroo, and then uh two people more people join him, then two more people join him, and then the whole cast basically joins him. And that is sort of a staple in in Wes Anderson's movies where his all these sort of side characters kind of get absorbed into the team. And I thought that was funny, and that's what happened with the revolutionaries, is like he becomes a security, which is fun. It's you know, a little little dig at the the sort of the ambitions of the communists or the the revolutionaries, and then also just kind of kind of homesy and folksy and fun that yeah, they're just part of his team now.
SPEAKER_05Well, you do you do you do have the final uh scene in heaven where they're walking across the camera and you've got the the characters below and the characters above, yeah, and then you've got Benichi del Tora climbing the stairs, and again, you've got all the characters there. I mean, Bill Murray's in there, yeah, Michael Serra, uh Mile Thripleton. If I'm saying her name right, I think it's Threepleton.
SPEAKER_03British, the names.
SPEAKER_01Did you did you notice when they were in the helicopter, the one guy, uh the revolutionary whatever revolutionary shot a gun and there was a guy's head that popped off the top of the of the helicopter, and he looked over in the door. And I know I just I just thought that was funny because I'm like he's writing on top of the helicopter.
SPEAKER_05And see, that's why I think uh along with Looney Tunes, Mad Magazine was a big part of Wes Anderson's life. Because it's you see a lot of that in um um Asteroid City. Um I think of the early artist Lee Yeah, Lee Elder, who every panel there's always something, you know, you've got the main action, but then you look around for all the weird little things, all the little references or the the the the absurdest quality. And there's definitely sticking his head in the door. Like, is he on the rotor? What's he? It doesn't matter. You laugh at it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, I'm just gonna chime in. And my I favorite part I just thought was funny just because the look. Because I thought in the when I saw the previews of Tom Hanks and Brian Cranson, I thought they're kind of similar. So it was just funny that they were brothers, and I thought that just part cracked me up. Just Brian Cranson's moves, whatever, standard layup or whatever backhand layup.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was I forgot, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then I liked how it and Rizumade, which I'm not a I'm not a fan of because he seems kind of a drip in real life, but he was he rose the challenge as as the prince. And I thought that, yeah, I like he had a very regal, so I can't do it. I'm foreign to this game. It's the game's foreign. And you're supposed to bounce the ball. I thought all that was very funny, especially while in the background, again, Michael Sarah and Mia Thraepleton are drinking their beers. You can see them, which is it's just funny, like it's funny. Um, just framing again. He has that 2D framing. Apparently, he's blind in one eye. So he has this two-dimensional framing. So, which is but it serves always serves him well because the shots are gorgeous, especially the opening credits. And that was tough. Nina and I my wife said it, and she said it's hard to see, it's hard with what to focus on, the names or all the things that the staff are doing to sort of help him out, which is again. I was torn, like, okay. Anyway, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, there's you know, there's a lot of um, you know, I I couldn't help but think of especially the opening scene, the overhead shot where he's in the bathtub and you see all the action going around about him, all that attention to detail and how kind of discombobulating that is because you're what you know, yeah. Puts you the audience, and it reminded me quite a bit of 2001. All those carefully thought out shots that Stanley Kubrick has, and all, you know, just the the sets that he designed so that the characters would be running, you know, it just kind of discombobulates the audience. But it's fascinating, it draws you in.
SPEAKER_03Well, I wonder because I was focused on the credits, so I kept trying to glance over. I have to watch it again just to stop looking at the names on screen and look at what all the actions that are happening because this is after he's come back from that assassination attempt and he's in terrible shape, you know. So it's when he's in the tub.
SPEAKER_05That's a great scene. Yeah. It goes on for quite a bit. No, it's caps it off with where he looks up at the camera. Yeah. But uh that reminded me very much of Kubrick's stuff. And I a lot of his stuff does. What is it? Kubrick was big on what do they call it, the Maison Saint, where every just about every shot or most shots are like uh a painting come to life. That you know, whether it's Barry Linden or Clockwork Orange, um, he's got those those uh dramatic, beautiful shots that are like paintings that you know start to move.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and in this case, this is more like like you say, a mad magazine or or Looney Tunes. Yeah. But in this case, you know, there's an artistry just like he brought to the French dispatch with the best sequence with Benicio del Toro. You know, like fantastic cinematography, gorgeous cinematography. So he he can do both for sure handily, but that's what makes his movies so much fun, is he's you know, and he's not doing you know, people are really just you look at the reviews, especially a lot of um yeah, a lot of like common or just general audience reviews, and they're really they're really getting tired of his crap, basically. If I don't know if Joe, have you paid attention to any of this? Okay, so general audience, general hipster audience types are saying oh it's he's same old crap, a really thin story. It's like no. Okay, a the story is pretty much the same as it always is. It's so it's not I mean again, do you criticize an artist for for obsessing about the the same details? I and I I always talk about this with Roseanne, is like, well, what is the difference? Alex, what's the difference between the Fast and the Furious just rehashing the same thing versus exploring an idea? And is there a difference? Uh yes.
SPEAKER_05I think with another thing. Define it.
SPEAKER_03What is what is he doing that the Fast and the Furious isn't?
SPEAKER_05Well, you're basically just you know rehashing the same thing that went before. Maybe a different thing.
SPEAKER_03But he's being criticized. He's being criticized for just doing the same old thing.
SPEAKER_05Right. But you know, with the Fast and the Furious, you know, there's no thought that goes into it. A lot of his like paint by numbers. But with Wes Anderson, it's like there is something behind it. It's like he's exploring ideas. I mean, we can argue the same thing about an author, you know. Authors, you know, a really good author has a certain kind of signature, a certain vibe. Or we can say the same thing about music. Sure. You know, and they're and a lot of these artists, you know, they have those themes that they continue coming back to.
SPEAKER_03I agree. But when it but it I can't deny it uh when people say, oh, it's the same old thing. And I'm like, well, yeah, but it's the same ideas presented in a new in a new cinematography with tighter action, with tighter, tighter jokes, with you know, and and for some reason, did you notice anybody did anybody watch the trailers to to Phoenician Scheme? So in the trailer when the guy takes the poison pill and dies, uh Easel says she says audibly, Lord Jesus Christ, please forgive this miserable sinner. And she she blesses him. But in the movie, she just the movie cut, she just does the sign of the cross. Did you notice that? So there was a funnier gag in the trailer, almost like that controversial Indiana Jones and the you know, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull line reading of you know, where in the trailer he says, You're a you're a you're a teacher, and he goes, part-time. And then in the in the movie goes part-time. It was just a different take. And everybody was mad because the ta the the take in the trailer was better than the take in the movie. Same deal in the hero. Like, wait, that was funnier when she says the words, you know. But was I wrong, or did she say the words I was just laughing so hard I didn't hear them?
SPEAKER_01I don't think she I don't remember. She just blessed him, says something.
SPEAKER_05You can hear her say something, but see, now with me, when I'm watching it, that's when my wife laugh uh busts out laughing. Yeah at that scene. She just found that scene really, I think that got the biggest laugh out of her. So maybe it was funny. The funny scene was a funny scene. I laugh too.
SPEAKER_03It yeah, and again, it it called back, it's a callback in my mind to the the you think I've done it, you've already you know, from the Grand Budapest Hotel because you think I'm a murderer. And it takes off running. It takes off running, yeah. It had the same sort of feel to it. Yeah, we'll have to do that film at some point, but anyway, um, yeah, uh I don't know. I I just think it's I'm grappling, I guess, with the critical. There's a lot of people online criticizing the film for being the same old, same old. And I can't argue that in a sense. I'm like, well, it is another story about a brash sort of larger than life father with emotional connection issues. So I guess. You know, I remember thinking the Cohen brothers with the man who wasn't there was oh, this is old hat, this is same old stuff. Then I saw it again, realized, no, this is actually a pretty profound movie about death. And and you know, yes, they they meditate on the same things too. So I you have to I I do have to grapple with that. Like, well, if you're not in the mood, if you're being cynical, yeah, it's the same old story.
SPEAKER_05I think that's the problem, though, because uh reading some of the reviews, like you said, it's just uh one says ticks the boxes of visual and narrative quirkiness without delivering any substance. And I'm like, well, what movie did you see? Because what I saw had a lot of substance. More than ever. I really did, more than ever. And it was so right there. You know, because I think he's he is exploring more spiritual themes. I mean, he's you know, expanding his scope. Yeah um you know, maybe he's gone gone so far in terms of, you know, can I explain through science, through, you know, empirical evidence? And it's like you can only go so far and you're still not satisfied. But the spiritual realm, even for somebody like Benicio del Toro's character who doesn't believe, he does become a believer in his own funny way. In his own funny way. And you know, because there is some sincerity, you know. What does he say? Something about 50%, you know, spiritual matters, but also like the pragmatic matters.
SPEAKER_03And it's like, well, that's a very human answer for anyone, you know, like uh But he can be Okay, so let's so let's talk about that. So she It's not that she doesn't does she lose her faith or she just loses her vocation?
SPEAKER_05I think she loses her vocation. It's never said because that's what I got.
SPEAKER_03But she does say I just guess what God's thinking I want. I just or I guess what God's thinking, and that's what I do, right? She says that.
SPEAKER_05She does say that it won't be.
SPEAKER_03And he says amen.
SPEAKER_05He says amen to that.
SPEAKER_03So I got the sense that she's she's bad, she's cooling off because you know, Hope Davis is greedy nun, and then the then there's that Vatican character, which is enough to make you lose your faith. Well, so there's that. So I didn't know if she lost it completely or she's just cooling off. I don't think it was ever mentioned. No, but then that's that's that's the beauty of a director like Wes Anderson. He's not gonna spoon feed it for you. No, you are you are going to have to sort of analyze well what does that mean? And it's it's good. He he finds faith, obviously, because he becomes spiritually face to face with God in the form of Bill Murray. I mean, he he can't deny it, he keeps dying, and he you know, he's given this chance to to redeem himself, so he take he basically takes it practically, of course. So he has basically no choice. Where she's uh I don't know, I think it was a very mature film because you're dealing with m matters of faith and business, transactional, you know. So like everything, everything. I mean, you look at it that's no, it's it's the gap, right? You know, and I I don't think he's as simplistic as I am. Like his gap is also his spiritual and his emotional gap. But you can read it as that, right? Like he ultimately fills that gap with his own soul and us in essence, right? He says, All right, we're gonna pay the slaves. I mean, you could look at it simplistically like that, uh, but because it's there, the subtext is there. Like, yeah, he's gaining his soul back through his affiliation with his daughter and by virtue of his daughter, then his sons, which he's treated nothing but cruelly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But then you, you know, you have a man that had it all, and he uh trades it for a a life of service, you know, as in any you know true.
SPEAKER_03But he doesn't look entirely happy about it.
unknownI don't know.
SPEAKER_03Don't you think he looks resigned to his face? Dave, is he happy in the end? I'd have to disagree with that.
SPEAKER_01I I think he was happy because uh, you know, he got to spend time with his daughter and and his sons, because at the end they're playing cards at the table, and I just thought, oh, you know, but he's punching the clock, he's writing, you know, there's there's a certain air of defeat to him, too.
SPEAKER_05I don't know. See, I wouldn't say that. I I would say that it's yeah, you know, the the you know the the existential grind of everyday life, but it has meaning for him. You know, maybe the sort of thing he wanted to avoid in his life, but it's you know, it all has a purpose. And he doesn't seem defeated. He's got his glass of whiskey at the end, and he's playing cards uh with his daughter. And uh, you know, even in her uh voiceover, the idea that uh he's a great cook and he's also a great dishwasher. You know, and he and it's like two skills, two things he's very good at, you know, that that actually contribute and not take away. It's not, you know, that you he's feeding the masses and he's cleaning the dishes. I mean, he's he's cleaning shoes, he's washing feet in a sense. He's living a life of servitude.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, I got that. I got that. But what I like I personally like that he it's not this pat little, oh, all he ever needed to do was read a book and turn off the TV. It's not that. There is an element of defeat in him, and that's fine because he has changed.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, and I think that's okay, and now I see what you I think I know what you're talking about, and I don't feel like he he loses anything. I still think he gains more. His scheme went bust. It did go bust, but he at great sacrifice, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but he he he changes the minute he realizes you know where he's fighting Benedict Gumbert Gummerbatch, and it's all just I'm gonna lick you. And it's just a stupid, like get it just all boiled down that he wants to kill him. You know, like that. So he's so he's seen the futility in it, I guess. I'm hoping. But there is this element I felt of now it's small, and he's sort of resigned to it. That's all. Like, there's an you know, it's like catch me if you can, the book, not the dumb Spielberg Tom Hanks movie. Yeah, but the book, there uh that the entire time you're reading it, he you can see he relishes when he's a criminal. He's telling it with so much glee. And then when he's reformed, you can you can feel the sort of well, it's better, I guess. So that's all. That's all I I picked up. Joe, you're a psychologist. What do you think? Am I am I am I talking out of my ass, or is he just so happy to have his daughter and his kids?
SPEAKER_02I think that for the for at least some of the main characters, there isn't a whole lot of emotionality that they show. Not in sort of an overt sense, at least, which I think is a pretty good and intentional way of kind of letting viewers kind of project a little bit. Um, like, you know, if he's just talking in a pretty like plain plain way, very little, you know, no not a lot of smiles, only occasionally is he ever yelling at anybody or anything. You know.
SPEAKER_03I mean, there's there's high-level screaming with each business dealer. Yeah. I mean Which is a funny commentary on that, too. It is.
SPEAKER_02But I think that like I think some of that's intentional. I I think I think that the the acting choices for him and his daughter to both be very level and not really show a whole lot of what they're feeling at any given time. Um, I think that's a very intentional choice, and I think that you could interpret it that way. For me, I I mean, I don't know, maybe this is my own insufferable commentary on this, but I I I keep seeing this theme of the Phoenix with him. You know, and of course that's the Phoenician scheme to some extent too, right? He's constantly dying and then coming back.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and it keeps happening time and time again, and at the very end, or towards the very end, um, he isn't the one who ends up dying um to change things up necessarily. His brother is. And I think that it's sort of at that same time that he's making this decision that, oh, I'm changing. Like, I'm giving up everything and try instead of trying to take everything. Um and so he does undergo another transformation, I think. Um another kind of rebirth um after the destruction again of his of his brother, you know. Well, his whole empire.
SPEAKER_03It's gone.
SPEAKER_02And and his whole empire. Yeah. Um, but it it's it's kind of just giving up all of that. And it's instead of choosing this cycle of living and dying, or dying and then managing to survive somehow, he's choosing this just living instead. And maybe it's not glorious and amazing, and he's not gonna burn out in a huge blaze or anything like that, but he is choosing to live, um, which would look great.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, again, and a simple life comes with its drudgery, and I think that's what's interesting about the end, is it's not painted again, it's not the the moment like, oh, I just needed this life on the farm. You know, it's it's just like, no, it's still it's still a toil, it's still toil, and that's what I thought was painted. Uh the the punching the clock, I just thought was hilarious because it but I do think there's an element that's also satisfying though, sure.
SPEAKER_02Because he is at the end, you know, sitting down with his daughter drinking a whiskey and playing harsh, for sure, you know.
SPEAKER_03For sure. That that was that was the the crux of it, the and I thought, and I thought they played they played it beautifully, but she too has given up she too again, he's given up this life of fabulous, Donald Trump-like living, right? And she's given up her life of God, you know, and so she's given up the spiritual aspect of her. So that that's also they they play that. That's all I'm saying. Not that it and it's not so simplistic as to say, oh, they're but they've they're they're completely depressed. No, but there's just this sort of element of okay, this is a completely nude venture for them. And that that wasn't played as like, oh, it wasn't played as Pat. That's all.
SPEAKER_05No, well, no, you know and and that's the beauty. I mean, that's not his style, which is great.
SPEAKER_03I mean, he knows Yeah, and so I'm just it's a lot more ambiguous. It's not it's it's like any good book or any good story, it's up to interpretation. That's m my my uh challenge to all you schmoes out there who just wanted a an action movie or whatever the hell it was. It's like this movie, it's not just the same old stuff, and how you can say it's thin is it's not because it's there's a huge undercurrent of of subtext about family and redemption. and and and swindling your family and cheating your family and you know all these things that are going on that like well there's there's a lot going on that's that's not just a it's not just an uh a caper or a com like a superficial comedy it's a it's a you know it's like all his films but that's my point is asteroid city and this seem bigger than ever you know that's why I don't know if Asteroid City is my favorite but I liked it a lot. I mean I I my favorite's still sort of the life aquatic because that's the most the hardest I ever laughed at his films you know because I just thought it was hilarious and you know from beginning to end until when Owen Wilson dies you know but uh I thought that was like his loosest his loosest and his most comfortable with his his whole style and he's like again or you know you Alex you bring up some musician I don't know I I I'm so unversed in this I would just talk say the Beatles or somebody but any artist who keeps reinventing himself and getting better at it he's that like that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah and even those artists that reinvent themselves there's always that element you know that we identify with there's always that marker it's like Paul McCartney can reinvent himself but he's still Paul McCartney. Right. You know and and that and that's what's great. I don't think uh I I'd hate to think that uh Wes Anderson would would make a movie that's not a Wes Anderson movie. Right. You know like he's just oh I'm I'm doing it for the paycheck.
SPEAKER_03You know Fast and Furious 10 well they the the I don't know what people get angry about you know that's the question. What do they what do they think they're gonna get and what are the what are they expecting? Another rushmore?
SPEAKER_05People want rehashes that's the question to me is is what is it that they want out of these films I think it's like any again you talk about any good artist when they come out with something that just seems entirely out of left field. But this doesn't like this is covering well torn well worn territory in a sense well-worn territory but it seems to go a little deep uh a little deeper yeah you know in the in the in the storyline I think I thought it was a much more engaging movie in that you know I'm really engaged would you say it's better emotionally than Rushmore? Or the World Tenenbaums or any of his sort of early hits I would and I and I do like those movies but this movie really did have something you know that a bit more touching. I would put it right up there with the life aquatic. I always remember that wonderful scene when they're in the sub at the end of the movie and he sees the shark and he has that beautiful line about I wonder if he remembers me and he has that breakdown. Yeah it's just it and again you don't see it coming but I think it's just you know that journey that Wes Anderson has taken us on just like he does in this movie. And there's just a wonderful payoff you know again i it it's hard to describe you don't expect it but I think if you engage yourself in the movie you you know you walk away with some sense of satisfaction.
SPEAKER_03Yeah you know I did. Again I want to see it again I want to get all the lines because I'm not sure I caught everything.
SPEAKER_01Yeah well Dave did you catch everything um no I need to watch it again but something that hit me you know it's so layered this film and in the beginning he brings his daughter in to kind of show her and train her to be the take over his empire and in the end God ended up training him for this redemption through her yeah and I decided I just I don't know it's just there's so many layers.
SPEAKER_03Where does her where does what I'm confused about a little bit maybe even a little disappointed and it's just for characters you know like is is her arc is her arc fully satisfactory so she leaves the sisterhood uh for this simple life with her father and that seems nice in a sense she's taking care of her brothers and but is that is that are you fully satisfied with that conclusion?
SPEAKER_01I I personally I am because in you know in the end if she would have stayed in the sisterhood she may not have had that relationship with her father and her brothers.
SPEAKER_03Right. Well something that struggles Joe thoughts well hold on just mean like Joe's thoughts on it.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah I don't know I I think that at least to my mind her her arc kind of took a very much a back seat um and it it didn't seem like it seemed like with the Mother Superior kind of coming in and being like oh you know it's you know not everybody who's meant you know you can still be Christian obviously but not everybody is meant to be you know a nun and then also can I have money. Right. Um it was kind of uh like it didn't feel as much like the character was really choosing the arc that she was on so much as just kind of stuck with it to some extent. Um so I don't know I think that there could have been some things that it would have been nice to maybe have a little bit more agency with her in some ways.
SPEAKER_03Yeah I think that's then what she I agree with it. That's my only sort of I have to see that part I have to sort of stu because that's where I sort of got a little derailed because it it felt a little contrived. I'm not gonna say I like I mean I like the ending.
SPEAKER_05I know he had to get to that ending but was that just a glib sort of kicking her out because they're greedy you know Alex thoughts on that matter well that's what I was going to bring up I think when the Mother Superior talks about the jewel encrusted pipe and the what does she say the austerity of your um rosary you know and this knife you know those weren't hers by choice to begin with remember she has her has her nice little pious no he gave it all to her right right and you that scene where they're taking when she's struggling the guy the the assistant the the the Benicio del Toro's um butler I think broadcoat or whatever his name was is pulling the rosary out of her hand. There's there's a little bit of that struggle and he finally frees her from it and gives her the very you know the ornate rosary with the jewels and and and the the the swag um it almost seems as if it was something that were uh masterminded by Benichil del Toro. Well it is she keeps accepting she keeps accepting she never denies there's an insight into her character she never denies it she accepts the pipe she accepts the rosary she accepts the knife but in some ways does she accept it as a gift like well thank you very you know my father's struggle with the same I struggle with the same thing her selfless act what are you gonna do turn your nose up at the roast beef right like yeah you know your your choice of um possessions here do trouble us at the monastery so much so much for humility um yeah but it's a little contrived that's all it is contrived in a way but almost as if uh Benicio del Toro really wanted to embrace that relationship that he didn't have with his daughter that there is something there you know that the the the intent was always there he just couldn't define it in the beginning but as their adventure goes on you know she does have a profound effect on him well and he does her obviously yeah yeah yeah and I think the card game at the end is a nice little touch yeah you know it's just you know the the simple act of a family sitting down I mean you think about how families rue the the day that we stopped playing games together when the family just sat around we played cards we played Monopoly or whatever you know then TV came into the fold and we were all just a bunch of mindless zombies well that card game is fueled by hooch there you got a problem with that all right well let's uh I think we've we've solved the the the crux of this film uh let's get into performance David Johnson uh let we can't really we're not fighting any of their films here but how do you rate Benicio and did you see Royal Tenenbombs and Life Aquatic?
SPEAKER_03Life Aquatic a long time ago did you ever see Royal Tennant bombs at Joy I I haven't I haven't seen that one no I was just gonna ask where does he rate as the number one uh sort of impervious or puzzle father or emotionally emotionally distant loud brash father I mean I I I can't remember life aquatic too much um but uh it's been so long I need to rewatch it but I mean I liked him and I thought he did a great job um we might have to get Roseanne involved after this film's streamed and compare all three films. I would say Royal Tenenbaum's Life Aquatic and this is that fair Alex is there another film I'm missing in the the canon Royal Tenenbaum what did you mention Royal Tenonbaum Life Aquatic and this one would you include Rushmore even though Rushmore that's Seymour Castle and and Bill Murray's more the father figure but he's the the father figure becomes like the brother figure right I mean that's the joke about about Bloom is that he's kind of a kid at heart and also emotionally stunted and mature immature yeah I I I think uh the Royal Tenembaum's life aquatic and this movie yeah they're they're the most similar I think they're spiritually connected yeah I think they're the most similar I think that's uh no I think that's a good uh comparison good comparison has Roseanne seen this one no that's why she she's sort of arms folded because she she didn't want to get a ride to Boise to go see it she's a little she's a little irritated with me and she said what's the big deal and she's right because this film does sort of beg a comparison to other works you know um Joe I I know you can't compare so how how'd you like Benito del Toro?
SPEAKER_02I thought it was great. Yeah I mean he I mean I I I think I mean he did a good job of uh like sort of leading the way for the rest of the cast but I don't want to say that he carried it either because it was like the ensemble did a lot of heavy lifting too I think that's pretty much the deal now with his films.
SPEAKER_03I mean he he has such a packed bench that F. Marie Abraham doesn't have a single line in the movie.
SPEAKER_05Yeah well what's great is everybody accepts their roles too nobody's trying to outdo I mean even a big name like Willem Defoe or F. Marie Abraham no lines or very little that they just sit and react and nod they they they they do what they're supposed to do and nothing more. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And it just makes you know it it it like you said it deep how does he talk Charlotte Gainsberg into just showing up for one line you know that has to say something about Wes Anderson.
SPEAKER_05You know people just want to work with the guy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah yeah all right Alex how do you again you you of all can compare the three how do you rate the three I don't want to say deadbeat dads but sort of impossible dads oh boy I gotta say that he's like neck and neck with Bill Murray in the Life Aquatic as best.
SPEAKER_05Gene Hackman doesn't rate Gene Hackman's pretty damn good look I I look that's that is a tall order though. I'm not taking away from Gene Hackman. I'm just saying that uh Benichil del Toro is you know uh digging in with his own legacy.
SPEAKER_03Parenthetically do you know Gene Hackman said he didn't get the movie?
SPEAKER_05No he said that I don't think he liked working with him no he said I didn't I didn't get it I think Bill Murray had to step in and play Peacemaker. Yeah he didn't get it which is funny because he did a great job but anyway no he did he did and again if we compare the three then maybe you know but I really think uh well Benicio del Toro for a while now is doing a lot with very little movement. That's the beautiful or whatever movie he's in he's another actor who just he just shows up even when he's playing the buffoon in Inherent Vice he's never going too far you know no and that's why I say this is the summer of Benichil del Toro because at the end of the summer we get the new Paul Thomas Anderson movie.
SPEAKER_03No but it's it's in he he doesn't you just don't see him trying to be funny at all. No you know no it's it's it's it's not Steve Martin in Planes Trains and Automobiles No but no I I I like I I don't think Gene Hacklin was overacting but and I don't even think you could see effort but it's a it's a very physical sort of uh active performance in in Royal tenenbaums where this is very just cool as a cucumber in all in he's a lot of stuff that's just his that's just even when he's bricking in basketball there's a sort of there's a sort of coolness to Benito del Toro that's it's unique to him I would say it's like it's almost hard to compare the three performances because it's like okay Bill Murray's got his style Gene Hackman has his style and Benicio del Toro has this very just sort of calm deadpan style that obviously works with with Wes Anderson but it's his own thing. I mean he's like that in nearly every movie he does now and he does it well. Yeah no he was great I mean he was really fun but I mean he's he's doing all that screaming and yelling and all this stuff but he still seems cool as a cucumber. You know what I mean so it never felt like oh he's overdoing it. You know he just does what he does. Anyway he's yeah he's he's top of the line he's one of the best I think he stole the French ditch the French dispatch for sure and that's his that's his style too is just acting by just he can just absorb attention just by stepping in front of the camera.
SPEAKER_05Alright so now the moment we've been waiting for best best or most entertaining sub supporting characters and I I just want to before we even begin I just want to say I've been and I said this on the last podcast but it's he's put him in a Wes Anderson movie he's hilarious it's Tom Hanks Tom Hanks with the mustache shooting shoot shooting the the jump shot just funny Stanford sweatshirt his Stanford for sure I think that was Brian Cranston yeah Brian Cranston's wearing Stanford Tom Hanks had pepper dime pepper dime that's right again funny little touches no but Tom Hanks is with that mustache and that that old man he really he looks like a Norman Rock he finally looks like the Norman Rockwell character that he you know he strove to be but yeah forget him in all his other films but he he's really doing great work in Wes Anderson.
SPEAKER_02Anyway Joe your favorite supporting character I think I mean it's hard but I think probably Benedict Cumberbatch um just I mean the way that he played the character was just so crazy and yet also childish and like was just like I have everybody's blood. No you don't yes I do no you don't like it's like it it does such a good job of like simultaneously being this unsettling like you said Rasputin character who also is constantly locked in a battle with his like older brother who's just teasing him all the time you know and it's like you don't really see that kind of combination every day and I think that he manages to pull that off really well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah Dave thoughts um yeah I mean again I like when Michael Serra was on the screen.
SPEAKER_05All right even just little things when um Vinicio del Torrel's talking to um his daughter what's her name the uh anyway like yeah Lee Liesel and and you can see him leaning in in the camera shot I don't know if you noticed that I mean just little things he does that a few times yeah and I don't know I I just liked him in this he's great he he did he really I think he sort of graduated from sort of little milksop you know uh supporting type case you know like June I was he was thinking as Juno right yeah just playing sort of the wiener um and yeah I thought he came into his own in this film for sure Alex who do you got Michael Sarah oh wow like you said I think he's graduated he's uh in fact I mean if he's if he hopefully he minded his P's and Q's on this movie that Wes Anderson will bring him back because he just seems like the perfect muse for Wes Anderson. No but it was good to see that he's breaking out of the uh like the Juno the Scott Pilgrim sort of um little milk sop as you say and you know he had some grit. Yeah when when when he when he makes the transformation I'm not who I am you know but when he pulls the gun on the elevator operator he seemed pretty cool yeah no it's great I love this when he rescues Benichi del Toro in the quicksand in the quicksand yeah yeah funny scene great stuff very princess bride yeah that's right driving face first yeah I forgot about that yeah he really uh no he's you know he's showing maturity as an actor and it was a it was a it was really refreshing you know he's not just gonna be one note like you say the milksaw but it's like he's got something he certainly does and I I'd like to see more of it you know where he's not like as you said earlier sort of Jesse Eisenberg's shadow he is Michael Sarah yeah it's like no no Michael Sarah will be his own thing uh I I I liked Mathieu Almark and I like Jeffrey I like that combination I liked Brian Cranston and Tom Hanks a lot it's hard for me to say uh I think we just probably Roseanne if she's lit was if she would be listening to this podcast she'd be jumping up and down that we are skipping Mia Thrappleton or Thrapleton.
SPEAKER_03She deserves a little special mention. She's Kate Winslett's daughter did everybody know that oh I didn't know that first marriage. Yeah you know who who she was married to if the first you know Jim Thrapleton isn't he from Coldplay or something? No I don't know no he was like a third assistant director which is essentially the job I had for many years. In America it's called the second second assistant director he's a flunky well it's like if I if it's like if Kate Winslit met me and fell in love.
SPEAKER_05Well okay but he's he's he's helped produce a very talented dog.
SPEAKER_03Yeah exactly and she was great she was great I mean she she really brought you know for someone I don't know how old is she she's not that old but to be able to no she I thought she was feely and strong and I bought her completely as a nun which I often don't do with with Hollywood actresses or no you know but she did her homework on that too. She had mentioned something about talking with a G she seemed like she was could be a novice for sure. No no no she had it you know she really just the way she would segue into those prayers I mean that's like a real thing holding the way she had her her demeanor though her demeanor seemed Catholic and seemed rigid and and you know rigidly you know uh traditional like she was following the traditions and thinking about it every time she spoke. I thought the dialogue was really good in that regard it didn't it didn't really she was a good pre-Vatican II uh novice. Yeah I thought I I thought he handled all that pretty well you know I thought she brought something to it and it was a very respectful performance.
SPEAKER_05Yeah I mean I I don't think it you know in in anyone else's hands it would have been a mockery of the faith but she she committed to it. Joe you're nodding do you deference to Roseanne yes did you get any uh reserve no I just want to just double check with my two other well we're all Catholic here.
SPEAKER_03Joe did you get any sense of blasphemy or or crossing a line?
SPEAKER_02No I I I was actually kind of s surprised I guess that I didn't Um, because I felt like there were certain points where I was like, oh, okay, is this where they're gonna try to make some sort of an easy pot shot kind of thing? And they never really get to that point. It kind of always seemed to turn around a little bit before get that far. Um, and even little thing, like even little criticisms like, okay, was this you know money driven, or um like, oh, I'm gonna make a deal with you know his holiness, you know, I bet he can't possibly resist eight souls, you know. Um, even then, it's kind of like that's that feels less like an indication of like what how the like the Pope would see things and more about how the businessman would see things.
SPEAKER_03But it's the yeah, it's that's I can handle gentle ribbing about Vatican corruption for sure.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and it's true, but it's that idea that she does, she understands the spiritual and the commerce. Yeah, you know, and there is a you know, there's they do kind of intermingle. It's like, well, you learn how to if you gotta do it, you gotta do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And actually one of the one of the books that he was reading on his plane at some point was like like major, um, what was it? It was not major donors of the Renaissance, but it was Major patrons? Major patrons, that's what it was. And and so I'm thinking, okay, this is definitely talking about a relationship between like church and business. Like, you know, at a time when there was sort of a lot of corruption and stuff like that, you know, um I see this as sort of like, okay, he kind of might see himself possibly in this through this lens of like, oh, I'm one of those wealthy elite royals, essentially. And the the church is just one facet of that. A definite hope maker. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05No.
SPEAKER_03Alright. Um, well, that's that's pretty much the the podcast. We we already know. I mean, was it well directed? Yes. From from the director that we've been talking about the whole time. Yes. Well directed. Good film. Dave, you gonna watch it again?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I need to watch it again.
SPEAKER_03Would you join another podcast comparing it to other films?
SPEAKER_01Uh of Wes Anderson's films? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03If we do the if we do like a year when we we get around to our Megalopolis review, re-review, and then uh the um the this one with along with other other films of of its type.
SPEAKER_01If you were gonna say Fast and Furious, I'd probably not join you.
SPEAKER_03Well, that is an exploration. We have to explore what's the difference between a rehash and an and a meditation? Because you could argue, I could be some Hollywood phony on the set of a Indiana Jones 6 movie. Going, is there any difference between a meditation and a rehash? Or we as we like to say a retelling. JJ Abrams says, Yes, the hidden rebel, the hidden fortress. It's a meditation. I'm just meditating on the same ideas George Lucas was meditating on. I'm not rehashing anything. So there's an argument to be had, right, Joe?
SPEAKER_02No? Hey, there's always an argument, not always a good one.
SPEAKER_03Joe, you gonna watch it again? Yes. I will be. I suggest you need to catch up on yeah, you need to catch up on the whole schmear. Starting with Asteroid City, which was fantastic. Um, but yeah, Royal Tannenbaums for sure. That's packed. Bill Murray, uh, well, he's barely in it, but Gene Hackman, Gwyneth Paltrow, Ben Stiller, Luke Wilson, Owen Wilson. It's one of his earlier films.
SPEAKER_05Danny Glover.
SPEAKER_03Danny Glover, right?
SPEAKER_05Angelica Houston.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, they're quite a Seymour Castle.
SPEAKER_03And then uh Yeah, well, then The Life Aquatic, Bill Murray is the sort of Jacques Cousteau character. Hilarious. One of my favorite movies. Favorite comedies. Alex, obviously, you're watching it again.
unknownOh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Join our join us with when Roseanne joins the podcast.
SPEAKER_05Yes. As soon as she thumbs a ride to Boise, we're we're in.
SPEAKER_03She's gonna get it on streaming, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_05Okay, well.
SPEAKER_03All right, gentlemen. As long as she can see it. That's all I got today. Thank you. Thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_05Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Like and subscribe, all you watchers and listeners out there. Bye, everybody. See you guys. See ya. Thank you for listening to Fabulous Film and Friends. Copyright 2025, a Bel Air Films production.