Leading Across Generations: How to Close the Gap at Work, with Giselle Sandy Phillips Part 2

🎧 Episode 199: Leading Across Generations: How to Close the Gap at Work, with Giselle Sandy Phillips Part 2

In Part 2 of this important continuation, Giselle Sandy Phillips and I move from understanding the gap… into what leaders must actually do differently to close it.

This episode is about the future of work…and the responsibility leaders carry to evolve with it.

We dig into what meaningful work really looks like to Gen Z, why tenure is shrinking across all generations, and how culture, communication, and belonging are now the true drivers of retention.

Giselle challenges leaders to rethink outdated systems, performance models, and assumptions…and to recognize that Gen Z isn’t breaking the workplace.

They’re exposing what was already broken.

Together, we explore how leadership must adapt in a multigenerational workforce, how clarity and development replace perks, and why the leaders who fail to evolve will continue to lose talent.

Giselle offers insights on:

• What meaningful work actually means to Gen Z

 • Why clarity, growth paths, and feedback matter more than compensation alone

 • How shrinking tenure is impacting every generation, not just Gen Z

 • Why culture is now the deciding factor in whether people stay or leave

 • The role of mid-level leaders in shaping daily experience and engagement

 • How training, upskilling, and micro-learning drive retention

 • Why belonging is the missing link in today’s workplaces

 • How leadership must evolve to support a multigenerational workforce

🔑 Key takeaways:

Meaningful work starts with being seen, heard, and developed

Retention issues are cultural before they are generational

Clarity beats perks every time

Belonging drives engagement across all ages

Leadership must evolve or risk becoming irrelevant

💡 Quotes to remember:

“Gen Z wants clarity, not confusion.”

“People don’t leave jobs… they leave cultures.”

“Belonging is no longer optional in the modern workplace.”

“If leaders don’t adapt, talent will simply move on.”

If you’re leading teams across generations…

If you’re watching tenure shrink and engagement drop…

If you want to build a workplace where people choose to stay…

This episode will challenge how you think about leadership, culture, and the future of work.

A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!

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Transcript

Setting The Stage: Gen Z Reality

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Gen Z just communicate differently. You know, they communicate using emojis, DMs, lag messages. And that's so vastly different than how the older generations communicate. They're trying to be engaged and they're trying to understand how do you connect the dots? Why do you do things the way that you do them?

Culture Over Perks And Shrinking Tenure

Psychological Safety And Stereotypes

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold leaders and big dreamers who refuse to settle. I'm your host, Sonny. I started in Scrubs over 20 years ago, doing the gritty, unseen work, and climbed my way to CEO. Every rung of that ladder taught me something worth passing on. Lessons in leadership, resilience, and what it really takes to rise. You'll hear raw conversations, unfiltered truths, and the kind of wisdom that ignites something deeper in you. Your courage, your conviction, your calling. This show will help you think bigger, lead better, and show up bolder in every part of your life. This is your place to grow. Let's rise together. In part two of this episode, we move beyond understanding Gen Z and into what leaders must actually do differently. You'll hear why culture, clarity, and belonging now matter more than the perks, why tenure is shrinking across every generation, and how leadership must evolve in today's modern workplace. This conversation challenges outdated systems and invites leaders to rethink how they engage, develop, and retain their people. All right, let's hop into part two. How do you think that psychological safety shows up differently for Gen Z compared to previous generations?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Well, I think Gen Z has the pressure even more bad because everyone sees them as young. They're younger. You don't know what you're talking about. Um, you know, you're just entitled, you're lazy, you're difficult, you're, you know, all the stereotypes. And so, you know, they they feel like, okay, they can't just voice their concerns. They can't have a voice because, you know, they're looked upon as just this younger generation that's different and that can't communicate and that, you know what I mean, like is just too casual and everything else. And so for many of them, you know, they they don't feel comfortable speaking up, you know, and that's when they disengage, and that's when I say, you know, they just leave. And that's why the turnover is so high. And for most companies, Gen Z may stay one to two years. And when you start talking about like industries like tech and SaaS, where, you know, you have, you may have a lot of Gen Z, it's a costly turnover. You know, it can cost anywhere from 25,000 to 60,000 for every turnover that happens. So they need to have the opportunity and they need to know that, okay, yes, you're welcome to speak up. Um, you're welcome to voice your concerns. So long as you're doing it in a respectful way, we need to make sure that everybody has a chance to say what they need to say and be considered.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah. And I think it's important to create space to be able to have feedback, but also to kind of surround it with bumper guards around being respectful, right? Because I think sometimes uh what we see is it's almost like it's my way or the highway. And so then that kind of adds to those labels that come about. But if we as leaders, be it mid-level management, senior or executive level management, if we are creating and and breathing life into a culture that that allows for space for people to share those things in a respectful way, that then makes the conversation really productive. Because I'm a firm believer that most of the problems in an organization can be solved by the people in the organization if we're willing to create space to hear those things.

Digital Communication And Leader Signals

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Exactly. Exactly. It's just all about, you know, providing that means for communication. And now communication is not just face-to-face anymore. Now we live in a digital world, especially in hybrid environments. So we have communication on screen. So now you have to think about screen to screen and how you communicate via text, via email, via uh, you know, Slack messages and what you say. And, you know, Gen Z are very intentional and they pay attention to these things. They pay attention to how leaders show up. You know, if there's a long period of silence between, you know, when they send a message to when they get a response, then they they they read into that. They read between the lines. It's like, okay, what does that mean? And so it's really in, you know, it's really important for leaders to model the mindset that they want multiplied in their environment. Um, because, like I said, at the end of the day, the mindset is what is going to cultivate the culture.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

What does an emotionally intelligent leader look like to a Gen Z person? What behaviors signal that they can trust you?

SPEAKER_00 4:56

So I think uh for Gen Z, the issues that Gen Zs face are different in some sense, right? So, for example, you know, they may have a breakup with a boyfriend or a girlfriend, and to them that's the end of the world because it's their first. And for them, they're like, oh, I need to stay home from work today because I'm just so sad and I can't work and everything else. And to, you know, a leader who is not emotionally intelligent, they would be like, no, well, you gotta come to work. I don't care what's going on in your life. You know what I mean? Like, the work gotta get done. And it's as if they don't care about that person or what they have going on personally. And so I feel like an emotionally intelligent leader would try to understand where that person is and say, okay, I understand that you know you're going through a tough time right now. I empathize with you. What can I do? Uh, okay, how about instead of taking the whole day off, how about you take a few hours off and come in this afternoon? Uh, you know, just try to meet them where they are because then it shows that, okay, that person cares about you, that they heard you when you complained or when you, you know, you voiced what was going on in your life. And so that goes a long way to build trust. And trust goes a long way to help with retention.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

If you can redesign the first 30 days of a Gen Z's employee onboarding experience so that it maximized engagement and performance, what would that include?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

For me, it's not gonna be, well, it's gonna be more than just shuffling paper and getting your laptop and setting up your email and you know, just all the regular things, and then, you know, you get thrown off into a cubicle and okay, there you go. I think it has to be very intentional about integrating them into the culture. They need to be, and I feel like, okay, you utilize like a body system where you place them side by side with another worker, preferably someone from another generation who's been there for a while, who knows the ropes, and that can really show them around, you know, show them, okay, well, this is what we do, this is why we do it, and help them to understand the environment that they're coming into and at the same time give them a chance to ask questions and to really feel like, okay, to see, okay, yeah, I can fit in here or I can't fit in here. All right. And I think that goes a long way to help with the onboarding process. Secondly, would be again, if it is they can have like a some kind of group where these employees are allowed to come together, even if it's once per week, uh, and just um voice their concerns, maybe put ideas down. Okay, how can we make the company better? What, you know, what ideas do you have? Give them a chance to be creative, to be innovative, uh, because they're the next wave of leaders, right? And so if they come in and they have that opportunity, they'll be like, oh wow, you know what I mean? Like they can see themselves here because they can see themselves putting their footprint uh into the company because I'm gonna get a chance to actually do something that I suggest. So it keeps them motivated, it keeps them excited. Um, because they come in on day one and they're excited. And for a lot of them, by day 10, the excitement is gone. Right? So just things like that, I think, goes a long way to kind of help. And the onboarding needs to be more than 30 days. To me, onboarding, I think, needs to be like 90 days, right? Because there's so much that goes on in a company, and you don't fully understand it until you, you know, you've you've kind of lived it, until you you've gone through a full cycle of uh, you know, quarterly, you know, they may have their reviews. Different comp different companies operate differently, and so they have different activities going on. And so giving them a chance to really integrate into the company's culture, I think, is helpful.

Short-Form Learning Beats Long Videos

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah, because that onboarding experience sets them up for how long they're gonna be there. And if there isn't a connection relatively early on, then they're to your point, by the time they get to the 10th day, it may be like, this isn't really for me. This isn't my vibe. And if we're not touching base and being intentional about communicating, to your point, where they want some instant feedback. So we have to ramp up that communication, but also a sense of connection and a sense of community are actually pretty important. And so if we can, if we can tackle those things in an elongated way where it's almost like a relationship building process, right? Because you really, as leaders, we have to get people bought into the vision that we have for a company. And if they don't feel like they're bought into it, they're not gonna, they're not gonna work for you or they're not gonna work hard for you, that's for sure. And then another piece of onboarding that I think about is I laugh nowadays at some of the onboarding training videos that are like 45 minutes long. And you think about when we're used to a phone and scrolling in these short vignette style videos or YouTube shorts that are one minute or less. As organizations, we should be shifting the way we onboard people to encompass that shorter time frame or shorter snippets of information at a time versus, as you said, the the paper shuffling and then I think about the painful like onboarding, you know, old onboarding videos that people just won't, they're not gonna, they're gonna check out immediately.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yeah, they fall asleep. You know, you're sitting there for days on end, you know, you're looking at all these videos on safety, on compliance, on ethics, and you know, all these things. And it's like they just feel overwhelmed, right? Because it's a whole bunch of new stuff that they're not used to because they're coming into some of them, it's the very first time in the workplace. And they're not used to these concepts. So it's like um you're you're just feeding them things that they don't understand and they're not gonna retain it. And uh, if they're not gonna retain it, then they're not gonna practice it. So it's like you're setting yourself up for failure.

Accountability With Empathy Across Generations

SPEAKER_01 10:47

You uh you talk about bridging expectations. I think we've talked a bit about like how do we balance that support. On the other side, balancing support with accountability. How do we work to hold Gen Z team members accountable in a way that allows them to rise without enabling underperformance?

SPEAKER_00 11:07

So again, by this is where I talk about, you know, like helping them to understand that in the workplace you have multiple generations. And um, you know, yes, they may show up differently, they have a different style of communicating. However, they're in this workplace and they're working with other people who, you know, who've been here before, who are used to operating differently, and they have to kind of meet them the same way they want others to meet them where they are, they have to be willing to meet them where they are. And um not be afraid to ask questions. Okay, why do you do things that way? Because I'm sure there's a reason why things were being done the way that they're being done. And you know, if they have a way to improve it, don't be afraid to offer that suggestion. Uh and it really comes down to just being able to communicate and I think meet, you know, these other generations where they are in terms of, you know, this the style. For instance, you know, if you know someone loves communicating via email, even if you send them a Slack message or a DM, you follow up with an email. So it shows that, okay, you respect their mode of communication. Uh and just like just trying to bridge that gap. Just trying really, you know, in terms of the feedback, you know, make sure you're giving feedback and you're not just, oh, well, this is just the way I know to do it, you know, be open, be adaptable, be flexible, and uh be willing to learn. And it's a two-way street, you know, they have to know that it's a two-way street.

Feedback Loops Beyond Annual Reviews

SPEAKER_01 12:31

When you say it's you know, this is the only way to do it, and it's that my way or the highway type of feedback that I think is very off-putting. What are some other potholes that some organizations or different generations of leaders step into when they're providing feedback?

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Well, there's the whole idea of, you know, just doing feedback once per year. I think that's just something that, you know, they're never gonna wrap their minds around. Right. And then um I know for a lot of companies, there's this, and I'm not sure how Gen Z, I'm not sure yet how they they like this where you have to evaluate yourself. I can see some of them liking that where, you know, they have to evaluate themselves, and then their manager then looks at that and says whether or not they agree. There may be some that may be put off by that because then they're like, well, why do I have to tell myself? Why do I have to tell you about you? You should be telling me, right? So there's that, I I can see there being a little bit of friction there. But I'm sure if they on if they explain the reasoning behind it, um, it would help them to understand the intention that yes, you know, you should be able to self-reflect and know what you did. And so my book, I speak directly to that. I I speak to the fact that, okay, Gen Z needs to write down, you know, when you you do something, well, write it down. Write down your, you know, your achievements. So when it comes time for, you know, your review, you know what it is. You can you have no problems. You don't have to try to remember what you did six months ago, a week ago, because you have it all written down. And I think that helps to make it smoother. The other thing is, well, we talked about communication at nausea, right? Which is like the biggest thing, I think. Just kind of everything kind of feeds off of that. I I don't know why, you know, communication is like, because it just they just communicate differently. Yeah, I feel like that that's where the biggest thing happens.

Flexibility, Custom Channels, And Respect

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, and and it's either over-communicating, but also, because I think that's a good thing, right? Is when we're not to the point where it's obnoxious, but over-communicating more so than maybe we're accustomed to or that we have done in the past. And then I think the other piece is customizing your communication to your point, is how often are we asking, how do you best communicate? And how often are we actually then communicating in that way? Or are we just, if someone doesn't really pay much attention to their email, just because that's our primary form of communication, then there becomes contention because this person is not necessarily paying attention to their email, but they communicated that early on because you asked. And so I think it's really us kind of getting out of almost our own way of a certain sort of habits and way of showing up to be more open, to be more flexible in how we're leading.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah, exactly. And that's why I said, you know, they're they're kind of like the polish chick. Um, they're really exposing, you know, the ways that things were done that could be improved upon. And um, you know, if companies aren't willing to, I guess, take that uh and look upon it, you know, as something good, look upon it as a strength instead of a flow, uh, you know, that's that's where they frowned upon it, and that's where you have all these different stereotypes. But Gen Z, I, you know, they show up and they have so much to offer. Um, and I think if given the right opportunity, they it they can make such a huge contribution. But for a lot of companies, they're still not there. They're still not there.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Thinking futuristically, as Gen Z becomes a larger percentage percentage of our overall workforce, what shifts do you think need to be made if they if organizations want to stay competitive in the next, let's say, three years?

Decoding Gen Z To Strengthen Culture

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Well, they have to learn, they have to learn to speak that language. They have to learn to translate and decode Gen Z's communication style. Because I feel like once they do that, they would understand, um, they'll understand where they're coming from, they'll be able to read between the lines, they'll be able to read the messages, and uh it would just help to improve the general culture. And I feel like once culture improves, then everything has improves. Trust improves, retention improves, uh, collaboration improves, and it just makes for a whole better environment. The mission then is just improves. Because you have all these different generations working under the same roof, working towards the same mission. And so, you know, if it is they can't speak the same language, then they're going nowhere. So it's just really about learning to decode that language and being willing to lead and to you know not be afraid to meet them where they're at.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

If every leader listening today could implement just one change this week that would immediately improve connection and performance with their Gen Z team members, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

I would say give them the opportunity to voice, you know, to have a voice. Uh and and check in with them, check in with them as to how they're really doing. Just a simple question. It doesn't have to be a long conversation, but just how are you doing? You know, a simple question like that. How are you doing really could go a long way.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah. I love that. Not just how are you doing, how are you doing really? And sometimes we don't get to the really part. And sometimes people need to be asked, like, hey, how are you doing really? And so I love that. I think that is absolutely something everyone could take and put into practice immediately. Well, as we browse wrap up, Giselle, there is always a question I love to ask. And that is of all the lived experience you've had, all the wisdom you've acquired over your lifetime, if it were your last day on earth, what is one piece of advice or guidance that you would impart on the world?

SPEAKER_00 18:09

I would say live each day like it's your last. Don't be afraid to accept new challenges and to just stretch yourself because you know, at the end of the day, we're just here temporarily. And so enjoy today.

One Change This Week: Ask “How Are You Really?”

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Love it. Tomorrow is never promised that we have we have unfortunately a lot of examples of that in our world today. And so I love that. Lean in and live today like it's your last. Well, Giselle, I have so appreciated having your insight and wisdom in. I think smart leaders will lean in and pay attention to the things that you are educating us on because as we talk today, there will be more and more Gen Z in our workforce. And so we should not expect everyone to kind of play in our playground as older leaders. Rather, we should figure out how we can start to get flexible and create an environment where, regardless of the generation, everybody has the opportunity to thrive.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Exactly. So they're already 30%. So, you know, they're they're only growing. They're only growing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Well, uh, we'll put this in the show notes, but I would love for you to share where can people find out more about you, follow you, uh, you know, pick up on a lot of the things that you're putting out there.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

They can visit me, and you know, they can check me out on LinkedIn. I share a lot of insight there through posts. Um, and you can also visit my website, you know, www.wordofconsulting llc.com. You can learn a lot more about my work that I do with companies to help them, you know, bridge this communication gap. Uh, for my book, you can check out my author site, authorgiselle.com, where you can learn more about my book and the wonderful work I'm doing to help Gen Z.

Parting Wisdom And Where To Find Giselle

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Giselle. Grateful to be able to have you on and share this with uh everybody out there who really needs to hear it. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Zonny. If today's episode challenged you, moved you, or lit a fire in your soul, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with somebody who's ready to rise. Could I ask you to take 30 seconds to leave a review? It's the best way to say thank you and help this show reach more bold leaders like you. Because this isn't just a podcast, it's a movement. We're not here to play small. We're here to lead loud, one bold and unapologetic step at a time. Until next time, stay bold, stay grounded, and make moves that make mediocre uncomfortable.