Comfort Is a Trap: David Schnurman on Choosing the Hard Path On Purpose (Pt. 2)

🎧 Ep. 215: Comfort Is a Trap — David Schnurman on Choosing the Hard Path On Purpose (Pt.2)

Episode Summary

Comfort feels safe. David Schnurman says that's exactly the problem.

In part two of this conversation, David and Sonnie dig into the second year of his family's life abroad — the year that almost didn't happen. When summer camp got cancelled due to COVID, the Schnurmans didn't go home. Instead, they opened a map, picked a route through Spain and France with no real plan, and called it "Schnurman Summer Camp."

This episode is a masterclass in choosing discomfort on purpose: a 1,800-mile road trip through Alaska to chase the Northern Lights at 21 degrees below zero, the "narrow river" mindset that helped David make peace with uncertainty, why your own family can be your biggest naysayer, and a full-circle story about meeting someone 20 years later who didn't even remember them. David closes with the one thing he'd want to leave the world if this were his last day on earth.

In This Episode You'll Hear:

• The story behind "Schnurman Summer Camp" — how a cancelled camp turned into an unplanned, unforgettable road trip through Spain and France
• David's account of driving up a mountain in Alaska at 21°F below zero to chase the Northern Lights with his family
• The "kayak vs. cargo ship" story that reframed how David thinks about getting stuck in life
• Why comfort and happiness are not the same thing — and why choosing the hard path on purpose is the throughline of David's life
• The E + R = O formula for taking back control when you can't control the outcome
• Why your family and friends are often your biggest naysayers, and how to tell real feedback from fear
• The "B to an A" problem: why getting from good to great takes ten times the effort of getting from average to good
• A full-circle story from Sevilla, twenty years in the making, about the seeds we don't realize we're planting in other people's lives
• David's answer to the question: if this were your last day, what's the one thing you'd want to leave the world with?
• Where to find David, connect with him, and grab a copy of Eleven Suitcases

Key Quotes

"Comfort is not happiness. I can give you time after time of examples of why comfort is not happiness." — David Schnurman

"Going from a C to a B takes 10% of effort, but going from a B to an A takes 10x that." — David Schnurman

"You don't realize you're planting seeds. You might plant a seed with one person, and twenty years later, that person might come back with nine other people to thank you for it." — David Schnurman

"If someone's going to be a naysayer, make sure they've actually done what you're about to do — so they're giving you feedback from experience, not fear." — David Schnurman

"The purpose of our life is to narrow the gap between who we are and who we want to be. You'll never fully get there, and that's the journey." — David Schnurman

"Our unlock was traveling together and doing the hard things as a family. Life experiences outlast everything else — they get passed down." — David Schnurman

Resources & Links

• 📘 Eleven Suitcases: How Moving Abroad Changed a Family Forever → 11suitcases.com
• 📘 The Fast Forward Mindset: How to Be Fearless & Focused to Accelerate Your Success → Amazon
• 🌐 Lawline → lawline.com
• 💼 Connect with David on LinkedIn → linkedin.com/in/davidschnurman

A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!

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Transcript

Bias Toward Action Opens Doors

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And those people who were most successful and who were entrepreneurs had a bias towards action. They didn't say they were going to do something. They didn't think about it. They actually did it. And by the way, that's why I wrote my first book, because I had a bias towards action. I just didn't know what to do with the action after I got out of my comfort

Welcome To Evoke Greatness

SPEAKER_01 0:18

zone.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

So the book was designed to help people who welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold leaders and big dreamers who refuse to settle. I'm your host Sonny, CEO, entrepreneur, and someone who's spent over 20 years building, leading, and learning what it really takes to rise. Every step of that journey has taught me something worth passing on lessons in business, leadership, resilience, and the psychology behind it all. Here you'll hear raw conversations, unfiltered truths, and the kind of wisdom that ignites something deeper in you, your courage, your conviction, and your calling. This show will help you think bigger, lead better, and show up bolder in every part of your life and business. This is your place to grow. Let's rise together.

Alaska During COVID With Kids

SPEAKER_02 1:36

And my older son happened to turn 13, smack dab in the middle of COVID. And so we had kind of been planning ahead of time. And so it was like, hey, where, if you could go anywhere, where would you want to go? And for whatever reason, he picked Alaska. It's like, okay. So then we have all the things ordered. We have all the things set up and smack dab in the middle of COVID. And I think it was March when we went. So it no, uh, maybe it was March. Either way, planes are still empty, no one's traveling anywhere. And we get on our flight and we fly to Alaska and we hiked down to the tundra and we did all the things. We drove 1800 miles throughout Alaska to see everything we possibly could. We drove up uh up a mountain. We were tracking where the northern lights were. And these are the things I was like telling my kids, like, hey, you may not, hopefully you do. Hopefully you see this many more times in your life. But these are things that get, you know, a lot of people have never seen in their life. And so it was like really meaningful to start creating experiences for them.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

It's interesting you say that because I started like when you go to places, you just have to like recognize you'll probably most likely never be back here again. And it's just like mentally recognizing that there's nothing you could do about it because it just allows you to sometimes be more in the moment and appreciate what happens.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Absolutely.

Northern Lights In Brutal Cold

SPEAKER_02 3:03

We uh we ended up, we were following where the highest probability of northern lights was. And it was not anywhere near Anchorage. There's too much city light there. And so we rented, uh, we went and stayed at like a bed and breakfast in the middle of nowhere and drove up a mountain at 10:30 p.m. at night. On the way up, it was 17 degree below zero. By the time we got to the top, it was 21 degree below zero. And we're sitting there and we're trying to keep the boys warm and like keep the car, you know, going enough to keep the heater going. And all of a sudden, the sky came to life. It was, still is to this day. I mean, I goosebumps head to toe right now, just uh stepped out of the car and it was hard for everybody. I stood there the entire time. I'm like, I don't care if my limbs fall off, I'm frostbitten. Uh, and what was really interesting is uh I have two boys and my husband, and so I'm the only girl there. They were able to see the colors. I could only see green. And so I pulled my phone out. I just had happened to get an upgraded phone that had the night vision element of it. And so I was able to hold that up and take pictures and see what they were seeing. But it it was one of the most magical, surreal things that I've ever gotten to experience. And those are the type of things it's like, what kind of experiences do we want to see and live in life? Those are the things. You know, I really hope my kids get bit by that same bug, you know, as they they've had the blessing of being able to travel some really cool places.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, that's a great story and makes me want to do it someday, hopefully. I think we get to do it.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Yes, well worth it, absolutely worth it. We still look at the pictures and it's like, wow, I can't believe we were actually there. It's one of those types of things. What? So what caused you, what what had you guys stay there even through all that? That could have been, right? Good, bad, not sure. Exactly good. That could have been perceived as really scary and really traumatizing. There could have been a lot of things that showed up with that, but it wasn't.

Choosing To Stay And Travel More

SPEAKER_01 5:03

So we were already like because of COVID, schools allowed you to delay the decision if you were gonna stay or not, because you had to know by a certain time frame. And it was really not the two things we were first the decision was, are we gonna stay another year? That wasn't a hard decision because one, honestly, we weren't done. Like it was just we we got interrupted seven months into our trip and we loved it there. Like, I probably could have stayed longer to some degree. What we had then decided is like, okay, we'll stay another year, but our kids have sleepaway camp. We'll go back for camp this summer, see everybody, and then come back. So we'll have a little bit at least seeing everyone. And then maybe the day after we made the decision, we got an email from the camp. That camp was canceled because of COVID. And so we decided to do what we called Schnurman summer camp. And we opened up a computer, and this is where the book actually ends on this story, uh, because it's not it, the book's only about the first year, not the second. And it ends with us looking at this map and deciding, okay, we're gonna go up the coast in Spain to Costa Brava, which is a beautiful area. We're gonna hit the border of France, we're gonna go in France, we're gonna make a left to Karkic zone where there's beautiful castles. We're gonna go all the way to the left to hit the coast, then we're gonna go down back into Spain at the built and San Gaston's, then we're gonna come back and hit Rioja. We just sort of mapped it out, didn't know what we were doing, and then we did it. And like, I I get chills too thinking about each part of that trip. And that was an example of a trip where like normally it would have been impossible to do half the things that we did. And I remembered thinking, because I was just pinching myself all summer that this is what we're doing in the height of COVID, especially in the US. And so I didn't look back for a second. And then the next year was, yeah, it was like weird and different, but we had built well, the other amazing thing was, you know, when you're in your mid-40s, you think you have, you know, all the friends you're gonna have pretty much for the rest of your life. You've done that. In our first three months being there, we made at least 30 new couple friends, many of which we're still friends with today. And because why? We were all expats trying to find new way and meet new people. And so we had a strong community there. So we weren't concerned about that component of it. And it ended up being one of the most amazing experiences the second year and in a different way than the first year.

Comfort Versus Happiness In Real Life

SPEAKER_02 7:36

You say being comfortable and being happy are not the same. What do you mean by that? What, what, where did the belief come from your own story?

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

And how do you use that to navigate hard decisions, those hard things that we got to make a decision on?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

I mean, it would have, I would have been probably more comfortable if I didn't go to Barcelona, if I didn't do all the things like I would have been fine. I would have been home, I would have been with this in the background and doing my thing. Obviously, if COVID and it I would have been comfortable. I would have been a little the reason I also left was I was going through what you might want to call, dare I say, a midlife frut. I was like getting routine will set you free, but routine will also box you in and feel like you, you're st you're stuck. And so that's one bigger example. Another smaller example is like we decided that we were gonna go one week into Paris. Then just like it happens a lot in Europe, there was a strike that all the flights were canceled. And the easier thing to do would have been just to stay in Barcelona. I wanted to do that. I was like, okay, it's easier. I'm ill, this is a sign. And my wife's like, no, we made a commitment to travel while we were here, and we booked a flight to Lisbon the next day. And when we get to the airport, this was the best, the most amazing thing. You know, the thing the board where it tells you the flights? 12 o'clock, you see canceled to Paris. 12.05, Lisbon. And so the two flights were literally right next to each other on the board. And to me, that was like another sign. Like every time I travel, and I'm sure you can relate, packing, packing, by the way, this is the cover, and I'll tell you the story about this. This is the suitcases. It's never easy to pack. It's the hardest thing for me, especially figuring out when you're going to move somewhere. Every time I travel, I'm always like, I don't know. What about this issue? Maybe we should do it later. Maybe New Zealand's too far. 17 hours in coach is probably, and like, that's not comfortable, but we were much happier going. So, like, I can give you time after time example of why comfort is not happiness. And it's the same story, like in the more generalities. It's like anything you do to get healthier or that's better for you is uncomfortable, but will lead to happiness. Going to the gym is not comfortable, but it leads to happiness. Sitting home eating and watching a movie, you know, you feel for the moment happy, but obviously that's so like I think that hopefully that answers it in many different ways.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Yeah, yeah. Well,

The Narrow River Cargo Ship Trap

SPEAKER_02 10:06

many listeners of the show are either entrepreneurs, they're leaders. And I think people get stuck in what you refer to uh as a narrow river. They know they need to turn the ship on some things. They're terrified of what they'll leave behind, what they'll miss out on. What do you say to that person who is in the midst of a struggle and kind of going back and forth of, I just don't know which way to go because this is comfortable. It's easy, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Well, just to if I could give two seconds of background to that, I was two months into Barcelona, and one of the persons who was reading my online journals, online social media blog, whatever, he asked if he can have lunch with me. I said, sure. He was he won the gold medal in 1992 in Barcelona for the kayaking. And he's American, but he ended up living there. And he's and he was a coach at the time. He goes, I want to share a story with you. He's like, when you're younger, you feel like a kayak on a really wide river. You can turn left, you can turn right, you can go in any direction you want. But as you get older, you feel more like you're a cargo ship on a narrow river that's stuck in the course and you can't turn any direction, and that's who you are. And he goes, but not you. You turned your ship and you moved to Barcelona. And he said, the best thing you can do is continue writing and share your story with others just to give them an insight of what it that they can turn their ship as well. And that's pretty much when I decided to turn into a book. I thought it was going to be that year I wrote the book. It happened to be five years later. And so to answer your question specifically, you don't have to, obviously, you don't have to move to another country. You don't have to do a big thing. Maybe you want to quit a job. Maybe you just want to like travel 50 miles away to like somewhere close by or the Pyrenees, wherever you live, it could be in the Poconos, or it's just you don't have to get so uncomfortable. You can just go one notch and try something, something there. Um, and so that would be my thought. And like some people are very happy of where they're at. I haven't met too many of them. What I've learned is what is the per, you know, they say that it's the journey, not the destination. And it's another way of looking at that. It's the purpose of our life is we are here. This is the ideal self is up here. The purpose of our life is to narrow the gap. And you'll never get there. And so that that I have to keep reminding myself that because I'm constantly being like, why am I not here yet? I'm no here. And so that that journey of like, I'm not sure, I don't know, like that's that's part of the process. So maybe you're not ready. Like, I don't want to push anybody to do it, but just keep asking the question.

Sponsor Break Roe Nutrition

SPEAKER_02 12:56

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Control Thinking And Feeling With E+R=O

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Yeah. You've said that there are only two things that you can control how you think and how you feel. In those hard moments, what does that look like in practice for you? Like how does your mind work?

SPEAKER_01 13:49

That can't, I learned that through a coach that I worked with, Kim Addis, early on, and she she said what you focus on grows. But that also goes all the way back to stoicism and mindset. There is a book, Think and Grow Rich. No, there was a book, Success Principles by Jack Canfield. He also wrote Chicken Suit for the Soul. And he also had a formula, which I'll share in a second. But the reason, just to give context, people always think the problems are on the outside. The challenge is you can't control the stock market, you can't control politics, you can't control the weather, you can't control your spouse, your employees, your patients. The only two things you can control are how you think and how you feel. And it was a freeing thing because early on I thought, like, especially with employees, I can control them, like by saying the right thing. And but I couldn't. And the formula that sort of set me free a little bit was E plus R equals O. Event plus response equals outcome. And too often people focus on like the outcome of like how they feel from the event versus what the response should be to the event, how they think and how they feel. And if you focus on that, you can have more control on that. And so as best as I can, I try to remind myself of that on a regular basis when I'm going through struggles.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Yeah. And it's not easy, right? Because oftentimes when you're going through the struggles, that's when it's when you're starting to lose sometimes the peripheral vision. Uh oh, my Actually, I like

Stand-Up Comedy And ADHD Dopamine

SPEAKER_02 15:29

that.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Now we're completely even.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Here we go. Well, oh, ooh. Let's move that down just a hair.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Now I'm jealous.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Okay, come on. For Pete's sake, it's a good thing we're on a podcast and we can Okay. Well, let's go back to hair. Who knew this was gonna be a comedy show in the midst of a podcast episode?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

By the way, I did do a stand-up comedy show, which was an amazing experience.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Really?

SPEAKER_01 15:54

It was took me three months to put together a 10-minute routine. Every minute you you're speaking takes about an hour and a half of writing. I will send you the link to it on YouTube afterwards. It was the most amazing experience, and I hope to do it again sometime.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, I think I would recommend everyone go through that process. You almost feel like you're set free when you do it.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

That takes a lot of courage. Talk about off the cuff, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:25

No, it was yeah, and it was I I liked it. One of the things I discover about myself all the time is like with at with ADHD, it's something I always thought I had, but recently got diagnosed. And I I chase dopamine because when you have ADHD, you have a dopamine inefficiency. So there's no more dopamine chasing than like putting yourself on the stress of having to deliver jokes and then getting the last from those jokes. So I guess it fit me, but I loved it. I don't know. It was hard though.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Tapping into your podcast experience and and being able to talk with lawyers, leaders, being an author, and it kind of gets you having some different conversations. What's the one quality that you think keeps showing up in people who really are living without those regrets?

Entrepreneurs Act And Ignore Naysayers

SPEAKER_01 17:19

I learned this during my first podcast, 2006. And first of all, I learned a couple things, but like anything I am about to say, first of all, it's important, so pay attention. But two, it's gonna be not to you. I mean, that's the listeners, but two, is it's gonna sound like a cliche, because cliches are cliches because they're true. And those people who were most successful and who were entrepreneurs had a bias towards action. They didn't say they were gonna do something, they didn't think about it, they actually did it. And by the way, that's why I wrote my first book because I had a bias towards action. I just didn't know what to do with the action after I got out of my comfort zone. So the book was designed to help people who get out of their comfort zone what to do and then how to keep pushing forward. And the second thing that I learned about the traits was of people who are successful is you can't listen to the negativity of naysayers. And let me ask you, Sunny, who has been in your life as an entrepreneur and someone who's gone from a bedside nurse to CEO of five different organ locations, who who has been some naysayers in your life?

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Geez, I mean I've had leaders who are naysayers who do you think is the most prominent naysayer for most people? And as I think about it today, ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Totally yourself for sure. And me and tell me if this relates to you, because not not for many people, the biggest naysayers are their family, their parents, and friends. Why? Because they don't want to see them get hurt and they don't want to see them make a r take a risk. And one of the things that I was told from the successful entrepreneurs, if someone's gonna be quote un a quote unquote naysayer, make sure that they've done what you're about to do. So they're giving you actual feedback from experience versus fear. So that was helpful for me.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I fortunately, it was a blessing to be raised by a single mother who raised me and my brother, and she just like nothing. She was like Norma Ray. And for anyone who knows that reference, it's an older reference, but she was always an advocate for everyone else. And she did all the the things that a uh a single mother wouldn't do when she and so I never saw things necessarily as what I couldn't do. I think for a good portion of my life, though, I did think that like, well, whatever I'm doing is just what I'm doing. Like I didn't have control of the pen for my own story.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Why why did you think that?

SPEAKER_02 19:50

I just I don't know. I mean, I just thought that like life was what it was.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

What was the shift then? When did it change?

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Yeah, when I discovered personal development, literally my very first podcast. Yeah, that was, I mean, there was a there's a line of demarcation in my life when I was 35 years old.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

And so now the beauty is having a podcast and you know, thinking, okay, I'll I'll never be able to do this. There's not ever going to be one person who's gonna listen and all the things that we tell ourselves, which is why I said we sometimes are our biggest naysayer.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Well, that's why, that's why I like with the podcast. When you asked me, I think before we went on air, it's like, what's my goal? What do I want to talk about? My goal is helping you because I I go under the assumption, like I don't like if a million people watch it or one person watches it, like I know I can have an impact at least on you and hopefully other hopefully at least one other person. So that's that's the way I approach it. So yeah, I still, you know, I that's always the big challenge, right? You do a podcast and you feel like it's really good and there's a lot of value, but you don't get the reach that you hope you want to get. And so like I think that's just that's part of the the I think that what I was talking about before, you're you're here, you want to be here, and you're trying to closing the gap between. And it's something that sort of always sticks with me. Going from a C to a B, right, takes 10% of effort, but going from a B to an A takes 10x that.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

And you think that's why so many people get stuck at the B, whatever that B is, because it's you can't just do the same effort to get to an A. And then and that's how I think about a podcast that goes from just you know a handful of views to significant amount.

unknown 21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

I'm still trying to crack that code.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yes, you and me both. And yet there are still people being being impacted every

Planting Seeds That Return Years Later

SPEAKER_02 21:42

time they listen.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

And that's the beauty of it is that even if it is that one person, one of my favorite stories from being in Spain was like we m we went we went to Sevilla where my wife went as a student abroad, and we met our friends there from who came from the US. They happened, my friend's wife. Who I'm good friends with too. She happened to be with the same senorita as my my wife, one year apart. So we went on this mission to find her 20 years later. We never spoke to her. They didn't even know she was alive. So we, we, all nine of us with all of our kids, we were like hiking for trying to find her. We finally find the apartment. Someone they let they let us up without even knowing who we were. We finally see her. And at first she didn't recognize. She's like, oh yeah, whatever. We walk in. She's like, she's being nice, but you could tell she wasn't really getting it. And then Lauren, my wife's friend, sees a picture on her dresser of Lauren and her 20 years ago. And she goes, Fina, that's me in the picture. Then finally, Fina realized it. And like the biggest sort of realization for me when I look at the picture of all nine of us in Fina is like, you don't realize you're planting seeds. And you might plant a seed with one person. And 20 years later, that person might come back with nine other people to thank you for the experience that you you had for them. So like that to me was really interesting. Like a really cool story. Yeah, so it was a cool experience for sure.

Legacy Through Shared Life Experiences

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Well, uh, as we wrap up, um, I I could sit here and chat with you for a really long time. You're you just you have that about you. Um, I always love to ask people, uh, and this may resonate with all of what we're talking about. Um, if it were your last day on earth and you have had all the experiences you've had and uh learned and and grabbed a hold of all the wisdom you have today, but you got the opportunity to impart one thing with the world, what would that be?

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Small question.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Powerful cause.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Okay, well, see all that's running through my head is every cliche that everybody else says. But it's hard to like think of a non-cliche on the spot. But I I'll be real, right? Think I think it's different for everybody, but for for many people and for my family, our unlock was traveling together and doing trips because we've always been more focused on building life experiences than buying gifts and buying material items. And to me, these life experiences will way outlast me and everyone else because hopefully they'll tell they'll share their stories with their kids and then their grandkids, and then they'll build their own life experiences. So I I'm not just saying it from something I've read, I'm saying it from my own personal experience. We continue to do these things, the hard things together. That would be my and also, by the way, helps you slow down time. The more different things that you do and a variety of things go slower, as just like when you were a kid. So keep slowing down time as much as you can.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

I love that. I love it. Uh, where can I put all this in the show notes? Where can everybody uh find you, follow you, learn more about you, your story, uh for the next book?

SPEAKER_01 24:59

In the book, uh 11suitcases.com, either the number 11 or the word 11. And then has my bio, has some photos and videos. You can buy the book, obviously, from there. And then um I post almost every day on LinkedIn. So just David Schnerman on LinkedIn and connect with me and we'll or follow and happy to start a conversation.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing how you're grabbing a hold of life and the experiences with your family and how that's really kind of transformed how you guys are living your life.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Thank you, Sonny.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Okay,

Where To Find David And Final CTA

SPEAKER_02 25:29

stay with me for just a second before you go. Living with Hashimoto's and being in the middle of perimenopause means brain fog shows up in the middle of conversations, decisions, and moments that matter. And I refuse to stay there. I'm very selective about what I put in my body. Intentional. So when Meraki Blue came to me wanting to support this community, I said yes because I already believed in what they do. Methylene Blue, mitochondrial health, cognitive performance, mental clarity. It works for me. I want it to work for you too. Meraki Blue is giving the Evoke Greatness community 20% off. Use the code EvokeGREATness, all caps, no spaces at checkout. I promise you, your brain isn't broken. It's just waiting on the right support. If today's episode challenged you, moved you, or lit a fire in your soul, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with someone who's ready to rise in their leadership, their business, and their life. And if you haven't already, I'd be so grateful if you took 30 seconds to rate and review the podcast. It's one of the most powerful ways to support the show and help us reach more bold leaders like you. Because this isn't just a podcast, it's a movement. We're not here to play small. We're here to lead loud and elevate how we think, lead, and execute. One bold and unapologetic step at a time. Until next time, stay bold, stay grounded, and make moves that make mediocre uncomfortable.