79 - Michael Towers - Chronic Fatigue Superhero

Episode 79 of the Long Covid Podcast is a chat with Michael Towers, creator of Chronic Fatigue Superhero - a series of comics depicting life with a chronic illness. We discuss the character as well as the immense amount of work that goes into making a book when you have a chronic illness.

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(music - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Transcript

Jackie Baxter  
Hello, and welcome to this episode of the long COVID podcast, I am delighted to welcome my guest today, Michael towers, otherwise known as the chronic fatigue superhero. So I'm really excited to talk today because I've never met a superhero before. So a very, very warm welcome to the podcast. 

Michael Towers  
Thanks, Jackie. 

Jackie Baxter  
So to start with, would you mind just introducing yourself a little? 

Michael Towers  
Yeah. So I'm Michael Towers, I am the creator of a comic book called chronic fatigue superhero, which is also, you know, an Instagram page, where I share a comics and advocacy articles relating to post viral conditions, fatigue conditions. And yeah, basically had a post viral condition for probably about 20 years, on and off from varying extremes. And so yeah, now I just spend my time kind of raising advocacy for it, but also creating these comics just to sort of bring light into the lives of people who, who are struggling with that as well. 

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, I mean, it was this kind of idea of, I was gonna say making a joke, I'm not sure that's quite the right word, but making light of things and and trying to see the best in a situation that isn't necessarily the one you would have chosen that I really liked. So yeah, I would love to hear a little bit more about kind of what led you to do the book?

Michael Towers  
So I think, probably, like, at the very beginning, like, of all of that. I think, you know, from my childhood, I had always used I think, comedy and imagination to deal with things that I found difficult. So I think, you know, whenever I was struggling, I kind of always went into my own head. And I would create scenarios, and I would sort of live in my imagination a little bit. And I was always, you know, the sort of funny one at school, but it was really just, I guess, my way of dealing with situations was that, you know, if something horrible was happening, that you either kind of laughed or cried, and I wanted to choose to laugh. 

And crying's healthy too, you know, that has its place as well. But I think, for me, it was a huge thing growing up, going through a lot of difficulties, to be able to look at them and laugh at them and see them in a different way. And, you know, when you get so stressed out, and so upset by things, to be able to step back and go, I can actually use this, especially as a writer, because, you know, they say like, comedy is tragedy, you know, like, you watch any sitcom, and it always ends in tragedy, isn't it? There's never like a happy ending. You know, at the end of the episode, everything kind of falls apart. And that's what's funny. And so I think there's such a truth to that, that, that sometimes the best comedy can come from the darkest places. 

And I think that's what I used, I used a lot of my darkest places to create some of my funniest things, because when something did stress me out just too much, it became like, okay, let's step back. And let's look at this because this can actually be, weirdly a bit of a goldmine here, like, this is a gold like, it's like when you tell a story that was horrendous at the time. But it sounds funny, when you tell it in hindsight, you're like, Well, this was horrible. But this is actually a pretty funny story to tell. And a lot of funny stories are like that. They're like these ridiculous, awful things that happen. But now you can kind of look back and go, How ridiculous was this? You know. 

And I think that was the mindset behind chronic fatigue superhero was, you know, I created it on a really particularly difficult day for me, where it was really the first day I had ever experienced being completely bedridden, and unable to sit up. And that was a scary day for me. And I went through a lot of emotions that day, but in the afternoon, as it sort of calmed down, it was that situation of like, what can I do with this? You know. 

And I don't really know where the idea itself came from, it just kind of popped into my head that it would be really funny to have, you know, a comic character that was a superhero that wanted to help and wanted to take care of everyone and like be a superhero. But, you know, by the time he got there, to the rescue, he was tired from like, traveling there. So it's like he had good intentions and, and I feel like that's so much of of, you know, like long COVID and chronic fatigue syndrome communities, they're often people that are really giving an empathic and want to help people but they can't - so I feel like it's spoke to that in a humorous way.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, totally. I mean, I think I'm the same. I've always been the person that's like like, oh my goodness, this is awful. Let's make a really inappropriate joke about it, because that's how I deal with it. Yeah, and definitely, it's not for everyone. But you get the same in -I'm thinking about professions that see really horrendous things. You hear about it in, like, the police force and sort of medical professions, don't you? And this kind of like gallows humor? That actually is really very, very funny. But it's also very dark at times.

Michael Towers  
Yeah, I think it's interesting, like, you know, when I created it, the one thing that I was worried the most about was, are people going to appreciate this? Or are people going to be mad about this? Because it's a very serious and horrible thing to go through. And I knew because I was literally, completely bedridden while creating this thing. And I thought, Oh, I could put this out there and just have torrents of abuse, or like, How dare you make fun of the condition and all that. 

But I think that when you go through something, you kind of understand it. And I think that when people saw it, they recognize it's done with a great sensitivity as well. It's not like a mockery, it's not making fun of it, it's literally, it's kind of almost an in joke that only we can get, you know, it's this in joke that if you're healthy, and you read it, you might get some of it, but you won't get all of it. So it's a bit of an in joke really, where we can just sort of look at it and laugh about some of the more difficult things together. 

And I think that's why I never really had that negative backlash, because I think everybody understood that I was coming from a place of like care and sensitivity and someone who has experienced this to the very extreme, and not someone looking at a condition from the outside and going, you know, how silly is this? So I think that people appreciated that, that I knew what I was talking about, that I was, you know, part of a community and someone who'd experienced that so much, and just wanted to be able to sort of make something for those people. And for people like me.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, you're right. And it comes back to that thing where nobody gets it, except us. And it's, I guess, part of that kind of in-joke, isn't it? And that's something that I've realized in the sort of relatively relatively recent past, you know, since getting COVID and long COVID. And, you know, before I got ill, I had a few people that had chronic conditions of some description. And I sort of assumed that I understood, because why wouldn't I understand? And then since getting ill myself, it's like, oh, okay, no, I, I didn't understand at all, and how could I have?, in some ways, you know, it's very difficult to describe it to someone else. And you know, everybody's so different. Everybody's symptoms are on the kind of spectrum and a, and, you know, we move move up and down that spectrum on different days, but for somebody else to kind of understand something that they haven't actually experienced is very, very difficult. 

And I guess it's the same with with the book, isn't it? You know, somebody who was completely healthy and reading, it, probably wouldn't get as much from it as somebody who had experienced it. And I quite like that, because it's kind of special. It's like, oh, it's something for us. That they don't have.

Michael Towers  
It's, um, it's funny, because I was thinking before when I was talking that, you know, the reactions that I get from Healthy People are so different from people who have the condition. If I show Friends, they'll often don't often look at it, and feel like it's a bit sad. Like, aw, you know, like, they'll read something - aww, like, and I'm like No, no, no, that's funny. But I think it's something that, yeah, if you've experienced it, you can look at it, and you get it. And you feel like I relate to that so much that that actually is funny. 

And I think people haven't gone through it are like looking at it and go, Oh, my gosh, this is like horrendous, but it's like, well, this is just everyday so we can kind of look at it and laugh. And yeah, so I do get those two different reactions, I think that a lot of people don't. If you're well, you might not appreciate the humor behind it as much. I think people probably get half the book, if they're well, and the other half they're a bit confused by, so it is nice to kind of create something for people who really get it.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, definitely. When I was reading the book, it was basically kind of just nodding the whole way through. And it's that kind of solidarity, almost of like, yeah, yeah, this is someone who gets this on a level that my partner who's sitting next to me while I was reading it, for example, just kind of - he could from having watched me, so he probably had more understanding than your sort of average person on the street. But you know, he still didn't find it as funny as I did.

Michael Towers  
And he probably felt bad to laugh about some of it too.

Jackie Baxter  
Do you think there's an element of that? People who haven't experienced, so don't kind of understand the sort of the "in humor" of it, do you think they might sort of feel guilty about that?

Michael Towers  
I think maybe like, because like I said, I show it to some people who are healthy, and they kind of go Aw, like, I don't know, you know, I think maybe they feel bad to laugh at it. But it's, it's one of those things where, you know, there's certain things that you can say, in life, if you're a part of a group that you you know, like - I will say things about myself being disabled, because I can, you know, say that about myself, but because I'm, I laugh about, even the things that I struggle with, I laugh about. But if someone healthy said that sort of thing to me, they would feel horrendous, and I would think they were being like horrendously ableist. But it's like, you can kind of say it about yourself if you're joking around. So I think there's a bit of that to where maybe they don't want to laugh at those jokes, because they don't want to feel like they're laughing at me. But to me, it's like I wrote them. And I, you know, I guess it's easy for me, because I'm in the situation to make light of it. Whereas they maybe don't feel as comfortable to make light of it as I do.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, that's a really good point, actually, it's like, when you're sort of within the community. You know, the sort of the, you know, the experiencing yourself. It's almost like, it's more, okay. So the process of writing it, and then you kind of touched on it earlier, and I'm amazed every day, by the things that people who are really, really very sick can achieve, you know, people who are working in advocacy, or people who are researching or people who are writing books, you know, all of these things that these people are doing, despite being incredibly unwell. And, you know, with the sort of fluctuating health as well, that seems to be quite common. So you managed to draw, write, and publish a book, while being extremely unwell. Like, that's amazing.

Michael Towers  
So it was a very, very long and very exhausting process. And it was a process of just me proving to myself that I could still do something while in this state. So when I first started drawing them, as I said, the first day, I was completely bedridden, and then would be for at least a year, where I was at a severe stage where I couldn't feed myself walk, talk, sit up in bed. This was for basically, the whole first year that I was doing these comics, there was actually a point of eight months for that year where I couldn't actually draw them, there was an eight month gap between number eight and nine, because for eight months, I couldn't lift my hand. 

When I started them, I was too weak to colour them in. So I would literally just draw with the pencil, and then I would hand up to my wife, and she would color them for me. So it was just literally draw the dude, draw the speech bubble, and then just collapse in a heap, I couldn't move, she would do the coloring, and then she would upload it to Instagram for me. And we basically, I got about eight in before I lost, like all my ability for about eight months to do anything to feed myself or move. I lost that for eight months. Then when I came a little bit out of that sort of dark period, I thought, I kind of looked at it again, I only had eight comics. And I thought, let's do it. Let's keep going. So I started again, and we've continued to do that where I would draw, and she would color. 

And then eventually I had like 52. And I thought, oh, geez, this could be a book. And I realized I'd have to redo them digitally to make them a book. So I had to trace over the old ones on my tablet and start again. And we just did that again, where I would trace around the old one. And she would color it in. And sometimes I would do a bit of coloring too. And it just - but it was just this process of like, just not stopping. There were times where I had to take months off there was - there was that eight month period, there was another six month period, there was a few three month periods where I didn't draw. There were so many periods where I had to stop it. And and I think that's why for me, it became such a mission of proving to myself that even when you can't do something, sometimes you still can, you know. 

Like I was always a writer. And when this happened to me when I lost my ability to even move for eight months. It was really hard because writing has always been a thing that I've relied on to cope. And when I lost that ability, it was like, Okay, I can't write anymore. And there were times where I literally couldn't write. But there are also times where maybe I could draw for five minutes. And maybe that's enough. You know, and I think sometimes if you can't do something the way you want to do but it can put you off from doing it at all. And so for me, it was like, I don't care if this book takes five years, which it did, I'm just going to do my five minutes when I can. And at the end of that, however long that time is I will have something. 

And that's what it was, that's what I came up with at the end of five years was that I actually did have something and enough to put out. And it was a testament to me and to everybody who has lost their ability to do something that even if we can't do something in the way that we used to or that we want to that many times, there's still a way to do it, as long as we kind of let go of that timeframe, let go of time and allow ourself to just do what we can.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, I mean, that's incredible. I mean, I've noticed myself to some degree that a lot of the pressure and the expectation is actually it's our own pressure and our own expectation, because that's what we used to do. So, you know, I want to go for a walk, I can't do the walk that I could do before, therefore, I'm not going to do anything at all, doing a little bit rubbish. It's not good enough. And like, I don't know, like, why do we do this to ourselves? And it took me quite a long time to kind of realize that actually, well, getting outside at all, is actually amazing. And you know, maybe I can't walk the same distance I could before, obviously, I can't. But you know, being able to do just a little bit is awesome. And to really value that. 

And it sounds a little bit like what you've just described with, you know, making this a thing that you're going to do, and it's sort of doesn't matter how long it takes and how many, five minutes, you need to piece together. You just keep doing that kind of, you know, five minutes, five minutes, five minutes, and it really does show, doesn't it, that eventually, all of those five minutes, and all those little dudes that you've drawn, they have become this book that you have managed to do, which is amazing.

Michael Towers  
And, you know, in my condition, I never would have thought, you know, if someone asked me like, could you make a book? Well, my answer is no, of course, I can't make a book. Like, that's ridiculous. And it's like anything, it's like, you know, we all learn very well how to pace over over our time with this condition, we learn over the years, how to pace well, and how to sort of, you know, break activities up into manageable pieces. And I think it was just that same thing of like, it is frustrating when, you know, if I go sit by the beach or something one day, and I think I remember doing a four hour walk along the beach years ago. And I just think, oh my gosh, like I can't even wrap my head around it. You know, I can't even wrap my head around walking to like where I can see, let alone four hours. So it's like, yeah, you think, like, in general, I would say I can't really walk, you know, because I can't do it much. But it's like, oh, I can do a minute or two. And that minute or two is important. So I value those minute or twos I can walk or minute or twos I can sit up, or minute or twos that I can do a drawing. And in the end, they do add up.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Those couple of minutes just give you so much joy, as well, I think, don't they? Which is so important. I loved what you were saying about how it's almost been a bit of a collaboration between yourself and your wife as well, is that quite a special thing as well, for the sort of the two of you to have worked together a bit?

Michael Towers  
That's pretty good. Like to be able to have that because, you know, it's like, I guess I wrote it and drew it, but it's nice to be able to say, well, I couldn't have done it without this person as well. You know, it's like, people go, Oh, you know, you made this - I guess I did, like I wrote and drew it. But it's like, I also know that I couldn't have done it without someone. And I think I always say this, you know, when people talk about, you know, the importance of being independent, I think it's very important to be independent in many things in life. But I also think it is so important as well to have someone, no matter what you're going through, and not even just a partner but a best friend or someone in your life. 

And I think connection is incredibly important, especially in this condition that isolates us so much. And so to be able to have something to connect with someone on and work on with someone and knowing that this person, you know, you couldn't have done it without them. And I say that all the time. It's like, Yeah, this is - it's kind of my thing in a way that I created it and it did it, but in another way, it would be nowhere without this person because I would have drawn a stick figure and probably never done it again. But because she coloured it and was able to free up that energy for me and me energy could just go to that creative side or just thinking of - laying in bed just thinking of jokes, and thinking of like, okay, what's the symptom? Okay, how can that be funny? Or what's the, what's the situation? Okay? How can that be funny, and that freed up the energy for me to be able to do it. 

So I think that was such an important thing to have. And I think if I was in that position, having to do the coloring, I don't know if I would have finished it. And even now, as I've gotten into the journey, I just wanted to add that, now that I've published the first book, and I'm still doing new comics as well, is that even like, my followers, and supporters and friends are now inspiring and helping out in that way too, like, that community is inspiring me to want to, you know, do more and create more and, and that's sort of helping too, so in that way, it's collaborative as well, that I couldn't have done it without the community support and the community, like, offering me friendship, and inspiring me to keep going as well.

Yeah, and that's fantastic, isn't it? And it really shows the power of support that I just wasn't really aware of before, you know, and, you know, you obviously have wonderful support and your wife, and, you know, my partner has been amazing. And, I think, you know, how would I have coped without him? And I would have really struggled. And, you know, there are people out there - hundreds, 1000s of people out there who don't have somebody like that. And you know, it kind of reminds you how much more difficult things could be, I guess. 

Jackie Baxter  
But not just support from someone who's very close to you, and you just mentioned the sort of the wider community and people who follow you, and people who comment and say, This cartoon is wonderful. And, you know, you just made me laugh, and thank you for cheering me up, I was having a terrible day, you know, those sort of comments. And they can be incredibly inspiring, can't they? You know, especially I guess, when you're putting all of your energy. And you know, I think when you say all of your energy, I think people with a condition like this, really understand what that means, I think,

Michael Towers  
yeah, like when I make a post about advocacy, or you know, just sharing my thoughts on something, it's like, that takes a second to post, but it took weeks to write it, and to think it and to put it down, but it's so true. It's like the people, the friends, the friends and the people that support it, it wouldn't exist without them either. You know, as I said, I was so worried when I first put one out that it could have been met with an angry response. And it just wasn't by anybody, by not a single person message me to be like are, so everyone's got it, and everyone supported it. And so since then, it's just like, there's been just some beautiful friendships and support and people who are always commenting and always sharing and always liking and always see those people that are, you know, commenting and supporting. And it just, it wouldn't be possible without them either. So I think that's a really beautiful element of it as well.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, yeah, connecting, we were talking briefly, just before we started recording about, you know, meeting different people in different countries and different time zones and things. And, you know, you mentioned how isolating a condition such as this can be, and you're right, it really, really can. But I think it's also for me, it's kind of opened my eyes to a whole kind of community, and a whole way of connecting with different people from different walks of life and everything that actually I wasn't really aware of before. So I think maybe that's a very small silver lining to the whole thing

Michael Towers  
There's definitely, you know, a few Silver Linings that you can find, I mean, before, when we were talking about whether, you know, healthy people would understand, you know, and I'll always say that, I am the first person to admit that I would not have understood this condition. I would have been, you know, sympathetic about it and all that sort of stuff. But, I would not have understood it, deep down, I would not have understood it, I wouldn't have understood its range or its complexity, I couldn't have comprehended it. 

So I think like, that's one good thing that I've gotten from it as well is an understanding of some complex issues. And not just from my own condition, but from a wide community. There are conditions I didn't know about before, there are things that I understand so much better now. It opens you up to a world of different viewpoints. You know, when you have 1000s, of 1000s of followers and 1000s of different people with 1000 different life experiences coming from different places. 

You see so much and hear so much that you wouldn't in your everyday life where you just have, you know, you might just have your co workers and that's that's your whole circle, or the people you went to school with. And that's your whole circle. And all of a sudden, you have 1000s of people from all over the world with different belief systems, backgrounds, religions, conditions, thought processes, and it is actually quite a blessing to kind of grow, you grow a lot with these conditions when you experience them, because you meet so many different people, and you meet some really incredible people, complex people, very intelligent people, very creative people. So it is quite a blessing that I think the range of people that I know now and that I communicate with now is so much more nourishing to me, I think, than just having those same, you know, similar people in my life.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, I would actually completely agree with that. There have been plenty of people who I have lost touch with. But there are a lot of people that I have gained, you know, people who I wouldn't have probably met otherwise. And I like to think that I was an empathetic person before. But I feel like I've kind of gained a whole extra level of kind of understanding and hopefully empathy for something that I, yeah, didn't really understand before, which I think is a good thing. I hope it's a good thing, anyway. 

Michael Towers  
Yeah. Yeah. 

Jackie Baxter  
I mean, I love the character of the superhero. And I think in some ways, everyone dealing with a chronic condition, you know, whatever it is, and whatever the severity, or, you know, I think anybody dealing with that is a superhero, on some level. And I think they probably don't feel like that. I mean, I feel kind of useless when I can't do things. And I think that's probably something that a lot of people do, you know, it's like, oh, I can't do the things I could do before, I maybe can't work or I can't work in the same way. And I can't socialize in the same way. And, you know, you start to see yourself through this different lens, don't you were like, you're broken, and you don't work and you can't do things. And it's so much all about that the "I can't", and I can't, is exhausting in itself. And I think actually, I'm very good at saying this to other people, and very, very, very bad at saying it to myself, but actually, you know, we are all superheroes, and we are all amazing, just to be dealing with this.

Michael Towers  
I think that what a lot of people, including myself, including all of us, I think the things that make people feel that they're not worthy, are the exact reasons why they are superheroes, and why they are, you know, like, it's not even being strong if your life's perfect. You never have to be. And it's when your life's not perfect that you have to be stronger, when you have to put in extra effort. And when you have to, when you do struggle, there are days where you get through and it's just getting through a day, it's just getting through a minute at a time. 

And I think, you know, when you can't work and can't do things, it makes you feel like, okay, you know, am I useless? Am I weak? You know, am I not good enough? And it's those things that are what makes you good enough. And the reason that you're strong is because you are struggling, and you're still there, and you're still doing it. And so, you know, I always say about the superhero, because people always said, you know, when I started, they were like, Oh, is this based on you? And I always said, well, it was never meant to be, you know, I guess it kind of looks like a cartoon version of me. But it was literally just like, I just sat down and drew it dude, I was kind of just making a joke on Superman, but with like a C on his chest instead. So it was kind of just like a Superman looking character, it wasn't specifically supposed to be me. 

So I've always said that chronic fatigue superhero is not me, it's all of us. And it looks like that because it was kind of just trying to do with cheesy Superman type of superhero character. But at the end of the day, it's everybody. It has to look like something, but it is everyone. And that's because, you know, as I said, I've always related that to the chronic illness community. It's just these people, like, you know, you see it all the time in your inbox with people messaging you going, you know, are you okay? And I hope you're okay. And you know that they're so sick themselves. And you're like, This is exactly what I'm writing about as these people that are so unwell, but they just want to help. And that's what the chronic fatigue superhero is, it's just someone that no matter how unwell he is, he just wants to help and I just think that's, that represents everybody in this community.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, definitely. And again, that's, you know, bringing people together, isn't it into that kind of - I don't know if identity is the right word. But you know, this kind of, you know, identity of the superhero. When we were talking about isolation earlier, you know, it's quite a nice idea, isn't it, the sort of bringing together and combating that kind of isolation. Do you have a favorite cartoon?

Michael Towers  
That's difficult. It changes when I'm looking at them. You know, it's like, sometimes my favorite song is just the one that I've been listening to, oh, this is my favorite. And then the next day, I'm like, No, this is. So I think I kind of have two that I always say are my favorites. One is my favorite, like, a funny, like, one to me is the one that makes me laugh the most. And one to me is the one that I think is just really sweet. So it's my favorite. 

So the one that makes me laugh the most is the guy who's been abducted by aliens. And he says, you know, Superhero, you got to help. I've been abducted by aliens, they put me on a table, and they probed me and they prodded me, and they did all sorts of humiliating things. And the superhero says, The same thing happened to me today. But it wasn't my gastroenterologist. And I, when I thought of that, I was laughing for a very long time. 

Because I was thinking of jokes. And I was thinking, you know, like, I go through things, I go through symptoms, I go through tests that we do, and treatments that we do. And I was thinking about being, you know, laid flat on a table, and, you know, you get prodded and probed and I thought, oh, that sounds like how people describe alien abductions. And so that's where I came up with that joke that was like, you know, we go into the gastroenterologist, laid flat on a table and were drugged and probed. And it's exactly how people describe these abductions. So I just, I couldn't help finding that hilarious. Because it's what we all go through. We've all gone through some weird tests, and we had treatments. I think that's very relatable. 

And the one that is my favorite that I just think is sweet is pretty much at the end of the book, which is the the one where he's in a wheelchair, chasing a butterfly and his girlfriend's pushing him. And I just think that's a really sweet one. So that's kind of my favorite on a sentimental level, because I think that's a really sweet kind of - when I made it, I was like, well, it's not really a joke, but it can't, but it's like, it's just sweet. So I loved it.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, yeah, that image just makes you smile. I think.

Michael Towers  
Yeah, I think it's really sweet. And I mean, it is a joke. I guess it's unexpected. But yeah, I just, I guess I like the heart behind it.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, definitely. So you mentioned that you are still writing, still drawing new cartoons? Is this something that might become a book two, at some point?

Michael Towers  
Ahhh, Yes. I haven't said anything yet. But might as well since you asked. Yeah, I was never going to do a second one. I thought I would do this and then move on to something else. Because I do a lot of other things on my page. And I thought, I have been a writer before. And I've been kind of writing blogs as well, bit by bit. So again, it's been something that - I've been writing blogs on chronic illness for about seven years. And I'm like, similar to chronic fatigue superhero, I can just put this stuff together. And there's a book, even though I didn't sit down to write a book, it's like, I have enough to make a book on this. So that was kind of what I was going for next, which I'll still do. 

But I just found myself getting more ideas after I made the book. And there was some old ideas that I sort of reworked. And I was going to just add them to the book, I was gonna be like, I'll just make like a deluxe edition or something like that later on. But I've ended up having so many that there is pretty much almost enough for another one already. So yeah, so there's a bit more work to be done on it. Probably a few more months, but I think I will release two, and there'll be the two books together, and then I'll move on to some of my more like, wordy kind of books, I guess.

Jackie Baxter  
That's so exciting to hear.

Michael Towers  
And also I think I was worried like, you know, it's like, I've always been a fan of movies and, and, you know, sequels. Sometimes they're not very good. And being a writer, I was always a bit concerned, especially a comedian like, I feel like most sitcoms, you know, they go on too long. And they run out of steam long before they finish. And it's very rare that a sitcom is like good all the way through, or particularly comedy, or sometimes there'll be like a funny first movie, and then they'll make the second one like, and it just won't be that good. 

So I've always been a bit like, do I want to make a sequel? Because if I did, it probably couldn't be as funny. And so I really just didn't want to do a second one but making these next slot. They are just as good. And I would not release it if it wasn't just as good because that was my number one fear was like, I don't want to do a second one because second books, second movies with comedy can be really hit and miss. But there's so much more like inspiration that I've had since releasing the book. And going, Oh, I missed, I missed that. I missed that symptom. I missed that test. I missed that situation. And, and so when I put it together, I was like, actually, this is too good to be just pasted onto the first book. This is actually good enough for a second one. So that's pretty exciting.

Jackie Baxter  
Yeah, I mean, it's the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it? There's always another symptom. There's always another test.

Michael Towers  
Yeah, exactly. There's always something.

Jackie Baxter  
Well, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been such a pleasure speaking with you there and hearing a bit more about the sort of inspiration behind the superhero. So I will make sure I drop a link to the book into the show notes for anyone who hasn't already read it. I can highly recommend it. And yeah, thank you so much for your time

Michael Towers  
Thanks so much for having me, Jackie. It's been really nice.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai