Suzie shares with us her journey from school to being director of People and Culture at Fonterra. We join Suzie as she breaks down her career into three distinctly different times, and how each has supported her in achieving what she has today.
The conversation explores what diversity and inclusion mean to Suzie and corporate Australia and how she navigated career breaks to raise a family while continuing to progress her career forward.
Suzie shares with us her journey from school to being director of People and Culture at Fonterra. We join Suzie as she breaks down her career into three distinctly different times, and how each has supported her in achieving what she has today.
The conversation explores what diversity and inclusion mean to Suzie and corporate Australia and how she navigated career breaks to raise a family while continuing to progress her career forward.
Chris Potts (00:10):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Career's Night, the podcast where we ask our guests, What's your job and how did you get it? Today's a really enjoyable conversation with a former colleague, Susie Gray. It's an episode that I was really excited to record and a conversation I was keen to have with Susie as she was my former HR manager. And we had some really interesting conversations when we were in that dynamic. And her passion and her commitment to diversity inclusion is one that's really fascinating to me. So look, I just hope that you enjoyed the conversation as much as I enjoyed having it. I'll come back at the end of the chat for my summary and my takeaway, but in the meanwhile, let's, let's just get straight into it. And Susie welcome and if you can just start by telling us what your job is.
Suzie Grey (01:02):
Yeah, so my current job is director of people and culture at Fontera. So I've formally been in the role well since earlier this year. I was in a second or acting capacity earlier in the year and confirmed permanently a couple of months ago. So as you know, Fontera really quite closely. You were there longer than I've been, I've there five years now. So a big dairy company, New Zealand owned. And from an Australian business perspective we employ about 1500 people both in head office and across eight manufacturing sites. So my job is to lead the people and culture function of which we've got about 16 employees and you are working really closely with leadership teams across the whole business to make sure that we are doing the best by our people and one of our most valuable resources really. So yeah, that's the role I'm in today.
Chris Potts (01:59):
Going a bit deeper in the people and culture side, obviously the people we know through a typical HR function and looking out for that side of things, can you tell us a bit more around what the culture side of the role and the title involves?
Suzie Grey (02:13):
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean the cultural side is one of those intangible things that makes a company really quite different to another company and we've been having a lot of conversations about that recently. So if you take volunteer and you compare us to some of our other competitors, they'll be on par with a lot of things. So top brands, shore amazing facilities that can take the milk and create these products. They've got the infrastructure, all those types of things. And they're all the things that are pretty easy to replicate really. But the culture is that intangible bit that's really quite hard just to be able to design on a page and say, all of a sudden now we're changing our culture and we're going from this to that. You just can't do it. It either happens really naturally or you've gotta be really quite deliberate about it.
(02:59):
And I think at Fontera we've got a little bit of both really. I think naturally there's a bit of a tendency to have a high degree of care for our people. And so you hear that a lot when you talk to people, What differentiates us and what makes coming to work great and what keeps you here. And it is that culture of care and kind of humbleness. And I think that goes back to the roots, the fact that we're working closely with farmers and we're being a little bit more of a deliberate decision to add to that. How do you then continue to have that edge and ensure that your future focused and fit for all the challenges will come up in the future. And so that's the part that we've been doing a lot of work with and particularly around so saying, yeah, we've got a lot of care and then what else is needed?
(03:47):
And those things are a lot now around accountability. So again, a lot of the conversations you'd have with people over the years would be that we probably have an opportunity to do a little bit more in that space and hold ourselves and each other accountable and with that have conversations that need to be had. So we have this kind of concept of being able to say what needs to be said when it needs to be said and in the right way to be able to build that culture of high psychological safety. And so we've been on a bit of a journey over the last few years really how do we know ourselves a little bit better? How do we know each other and how do we be quite deliberate about doing things differently so that people can voice and they can say what needs to be said that otherwise perhaps would've been held back. Because that's a pretty natural tendency to do that
Chris Potts (04:35):
Within that, what's the overlap with all of that across 1500 employees laddering up to yourself as the director of people and culture? What's the day to day for you look like in molding and getting that culture as a point of difference to your competitors?
Suzie Grey (04:51):
Feels like there's a bit of pressure on there. Chris <laugh>, what does it look like day to day? I think for us a lot of the focuses on the leaders. So leaders play a massive role and we are doing quite a bit of work on enabling our leaders to be clear on the role that they can play with that. Because when you work in a team, usually the few people in your team are the probably 70, 80% of the time they're the people you're interacting with. So that's your lived experience of what the culture is. So if you are a production worker over in Coton for example, one of our plants, you don't have day to day interactions with people at another plant or head office. So your experience of culture is within the group of people that you work with majority of the time.
(05:33):
And so a lot of that will fall on the leader to be quite deliberate and think about what that looks like. And so that's where our attention is has been over the last few years and will continue to be so building the skills of leaders to be able to shift what leadership used to be like and what we thought leadership was in the past to what leadership is gonna need to be in the future. So from a day to day perspective, I think the role of the leader is gonna be really quite critical and that's where we are focusing on building their skills so that they can work with their teams and hopefully that there will be a degree of consistency across the business, but it will look and feel different. Cause each team is different, each leader is different, they're gonna bring their own personal personality to it as well.
Chris Potts (06:17):
And that's right. And one of the things I did really enjoy about Fontera is that celebration of that culture and that psychological safety and that journey that they started on. And I know having worked closely with yourself a pet subject and I think it'll come up numerous times across the journey that we're about to start on to how you got to where you are today. But if we can just touch on very briefly, diversity inclusion, which I know is a big important part of culture. It's a pet subject of mine at the moment that I'm really quite passionate about and growing my knowledge. And would love to hear your take on that and how your role overlays with diversity and inclusion.
Suzie Grey (06:53):
Yeah, it's one of those topics that is can be quite simple and quite complicated at the same time and can be quite emotive depending on where you sit. Yes. So if you are in a position of being in a minority, you know you'll feel quite passionate for various reasons because if you're wanting to ensure that you are, you're treated equally. And conversely, if you are in a majority position, there might be feelings of fear, well hold on if things change, well what does that mean for me? I also don't wanna loo miss out. So it's a topic that is filled with a lot of emotion and angst at times. And that's pretty logically if you think about that of human beings. We actually don't like a lot of change. We like things to be pretty consistent. So the way I think about inclusion and diversity, that the diversity bit when we've got all the stats and we've had the stats for so long about how important it is so it makes businesses better, makes decisions better, et cetera, et cetera.
(07:52):
But the fact is that businesses are still having to be very, very deliberate and putting a lot of work to make it real. And so I think we're still at early stages of it to be honest, because it does require change. It does require you to move out of a mode of just doing and defaulting to the way that you would normally go about just doing things, whether it be at home or at work. And we know that that default methodology is riddled with all the unconscious biases of things that you've picked up along the way. And so life is easy when you just operate in that mode of not having to think too much and just do things. So whether it be through recruitment or promotion or allocating work or anything, we just tend to operate in that default mode. And so a lot of the work around inclusion diversity is deliberately trying to get people to pause and just move out of that default mode and just sense check a little bit to say, hold on a second, got. And it's logical that you'll have preconceived ideas on a lot of things and they're not bad they, they're there cuz we need them for survival. But at times you might need to sense check that and make sure that those biases that you have are not unwittingly or unconsciously not allowing somebody to have an opportunity.
Chris Potts (09:11):
It's just a huge topic in one of my favorite elements of it at the moment is discussing it and debating it because I think within those discussions and it is often a debate around should I miss my job in order to support diversity and the robustness of those debates? And those conversations just go to prove the importance of it in my opinion. Next obvious part of our conversation is to rewind the timeline a whole lot and understand what your individual journey was to. So I like to start thinking back 16, 17, what did you wanna be?
Suzie Grey (09:42):
Yeah so when I was younger, younger, there were two professions that I wanted to have. And this is when I was a kid and I didn't really know much. I wanted to be a flight attendant cause I thought it was really glamorous and I wanted to be a fashion designer, although I've got no ability to draw or not even fashion at all. And I think if I was a flight attendant now other than the travel part, I think I'd go nuts. But when I got into high school that the one subject that I loved the most was psychology. I just thought it was fascinating. There was so much Sean cover and I loved people. I loved learning about what makes people tick and why they do certain things. And so at that point, once I was getting into later high school, I was pretty clear I was gonna be a psychologist.
(10:27):
So I got into uni, did psychology and did a double degree, did not a double degree, sorry, double major in criminology as well because I just thought was fun. And by the time I finished my undergraduate, I realized that, well criminology thanks for that, that was interesting, but I'm not gonna pursue a career in that. And psychologists still love, but I didn't wanna be a psychologist, certainly not a clinical psychologist because I didn't think I'd be able to deal with other day in day out dealing with heavy problems. And I recognize that it took a particular type of a personality and that wasn't mine. So I took a year off and went traveling, et cetera, and then came back and I decided that the area of psychology that I loved was more in the organizational psychology bit. I was really interested in understanding people come together in organizations and they need to do stuff, but boys, isn't that interesting to understand how that all works?
(11:26):
So I went back and did my postgrad in HR and ir cause a friend had done that and I thought that's using the practical element and plus all the commerce people seemed to have so much fun at uni compared to the psych people. So I did that and really enjoyed it, really enjoyed the HR and IR side. And then started out my first role at Crown Casino actually. So I was working there casually as a blackjack dealer while I was at Uni <laugh>. Oh, I don't think I was very good at it, but I did alright. Crown at the time had a great internal recruitment policy of supporting talent coming through, which was brilliant. And they had an entry level HR role, HR coordinator job, and I almost didn't take it actually, I almost didn't apply for it because I had in my mind that I'd go off traveling again and then I looked around and saw all my uni friends were applying for jobs and it was pretty hard to get a role at that time to get your foot in the door. And I thought, geez, I probably should apply for a job and be a bit serious for once. And I got that. So that's where I started my career as a HR coordinator at Crown Casino.
Chris Potts (12:36):
Wow. Obviously not had this conversation and that's not what I was expecting. What is a HR coordinator at Crown Casino?
Suzie Grey (12:43):
It was actually interesting, my reflections even back then and now were I wonder how if my career would've looked different or if I had started in a different role. So a lot of my colleagues or friends at the time actually found it hard to get into hr. So they went into recruitment, which was kind of the sideway step to get in. And one of them still in recruitment and the other one then made transition back into hr. Another friend got a graduate job at Telstra and just gone gangbusters and done amazingly well. And so the role that I went into was a new role and it wasn't overly structured. It was a bit kind of loosey goosey really. And my manager who's great was a little bit too senior. He was kind of general manager level. And so what that meant was I didn't really have a very clearly defined role and a manager who was closer in hierarchy to really support and structure and give mentoring guidance and advice.
(13:50):
And I'd reflected on that over the years, wondering if I'd started in a different type of a role where it was a bit more structured or for example, a graduate role in a business where you've got rotations, et cetera. I wondered if that even would've accelerated my career a little bit faster. And I think it probably would've, I had a great time. I loved it at Crown, the role that I had, it felt like a bit of a mismatch of lots of different things. And I had two roles during that kind of four year period. The first one just providing kind of centralized support across the whole business. And then I moved into a role in one of the business units looking after. At the time it was the hotel, so Crown Towers, they were just building Crown Promenade at the time. So I was heavily involved in the recruitment of all the staff and preparation for that. And then also some blue collar workers, our maintenance team. So I got my first dabble into IR and eds, et cetera. So that role felt a little bit more structured. It was kind of a entry coordinator level providing support. And so that felt a little bit more purposeful and I felt like I was developing clearer skills and clearer kind of knowledge across the employer life cycle compared to the first role, which was a bit just help out here and there and et cetera.
Chris Potts (15:08):
Yeah, I think it's a really interest reflection from yourself. Cause I'm sitting here thinking, all right, we are a similar age and you are a director level of an Australian business. I feel like your career has elevated and had a very good trajectory to it since the outset. Yet you are reflecting on that first year of saying feel like I could have moved quicker had I been in a more deliberate or purposeful sort of role and I'm well as much as feeling bad about my own career trajectory and things like that. I'm wondering if you can give us a bit more context, because I think one of the challenges we have is the pressure that we place on students and your course is about finding the right uni course and then getting the right job straight out of university. And it feels like you are a really good example of perhaps that wasn't necessarily the case. You sort of almost fell into a role it sort of lacked that sort of direction that you wanted, albeit for a massive organization within Australia, Melbourne. So yeah, keen to hear a bit more about that.
Suzie Grey (16:12):
Yeah, look, I think mean my early twenties, early to mid twenties, even up to late twenties actually, when did I start working? 20? I was 22 when I started working all the way up to about 28, 29. I mean I was in my twenties. I was there to have fun. Yes, I wasn't overly career focused really. So those reflections probably came a little bit later when I looked back and I wondered what the difference could have been. So I wasn't really really all that focused and I didn't have a very deliberate career plan to be truthful. I knew that I wanted to continue to progress and grow in my career, but I wasn't super keen on by this age I'm gonna be at this level and that age. I didn't have that mindset. What I knew was I enjoyed the world of HR and I love the generalist nature in the HR career.
(17:18):
You can either stay a generalist or you can go and become a bit of a specialist, but I love the variety of a generalist. So I knew those things, but I didn't have a particular leaning towards industries. I was pretty open to it. And I'd say even pretty naive at that time, the good thing about Crown was it was almost a lot of different industries within it. So I think that was a really, really good benefit that I really enjoyed. But in the earlier years, I think my time, again, I would do things a bit differently. I would ask a lot more questions. I would be a little bit more kind of just purposeful in understanding how I can grow and how I can develop and actually developing skills. I think it took me a long time to understand the concept of actually what does that mean to identify a skill and develop that skill.
(18:11):
I just felt like I floated along and I just did stuff and I did things well. I must have done things pretty well. I don't think I was a superstar by any means. When I was in the beginning of my career, I think I did a good job, but I wasn't focused. I didn't have a clear understanding of in this role, these are the skills that you can develop and how do you master those skills so that it can then take you to that next role. It wasn't until later in my career that I really understood that concept, even though the fact is, I mean HR and I probably should have picked that up a little bit earlier, but it took a few years for me to really understand that concept.
Chris Potts (18:50):
And I like that it's a reflection after the fact. But that I'm hearing you correctly, that's very much around the being a bit more purposeful early on about what am I learning in this role? What are the skill sets that I'm developing? And make sure that you're clear and understanding of those. That's great. So yeah, agree. We're at Crown Casino, you've done a few roles there and we've gotta get to a director of diversity and inclusion at Fontera. So bridged the gap for us.
Suzie Grey (19:17):
So mid twenties by this stage and I still had the itch to travel I was single and I decided it was a bit of a spur of the moment final decision, but it was brewing for a little while. So I took off for about a year and a half, quit my job actually got a leave of absence, but I knew it wasn't gonna return. I knew I'd to spread my wings. So I did a three month stint working at a summer camp in America which was a bit of a dream that I'd had since uni and couldn't make it work. And I thought this, it's either now or ever and I just wanted to live it up a little bit cuz I knew that the career world would always be there. But I was in my twenties and I was single again, this theme of wanting to have fun was pretty strong.
(20:03):
So I went on my own, did three months at summer camp and interestingly there I actually learned so much there from a management perspective, the owners of this camp were based in Pennsylvania. There was a husband and wife and I mean they were slick. They were so slick in terms of people leadership and leadership of a group of 120 year olds strangers coming together and you've got a week to get them aligned. And we talked about culture before, create a culture where knows what they need to do because they're the frontline leaders. And then you've got all these kind of young kids age eight to 16 coming in week after a week. So I actually learned a lot from them and the way that they led, which has still stuck with me. And then I did a few other bits and pieces, worked at Disneyland and kind of traveled around and then I ended up in Canada and decided to go to the ski fields.
(21:02):
And cuz at this point a lot of friends that had done the London thing and I had considered it and I thought, well look, if I go to London I'll get a professional job and career-wise, no doubt will be beneficial. But I just had no interest in going to London and I just wanted to see North America. And I got to Vancouver and I met up with a friend who I'd met years before and he had been a backpacker in Australia and I was younger and met him and he actually spurred some of my interest in going to Canada and caught up for lunch and I said, right, I'm in Vancouver and I've got my visa, I can work I think a year or something and I figure I've got two options. I can either find a place to live and find a job here in Vancouver and a proper professional job or I can head up to the ski fields up in Whistler.
(21:51):
And he said, don't even, it's not even a question, you head up to Whistler because you'll get a job. And I didn't have no money at this point and I thought I need to make some money just for travel if anything. So off I went to Whistler. Anyway, long story short, ended up getting a job in HR but it was kind of frontline it was an employee experience representative. So basically just frontline queries and stuff for all the employees on the mountain. So I did that for about six months and met my husband there actually he was working in the same building that was in, which was called the cabin on Whistler Mountain kind of quarter of the way up on the mountain and you got a lot of skiers coming behind you anyway, so we met there and traveled around a little bit, went to Europe and then came back engaged, they came back with a fiance, <laugh> a good trip.
(22:46):
So then it was time to get serious again. So I thought, okay, I've done my travel and I've done that, now I'm engaged and now I've gotta become a serious kind of citizen. So I came back and again at the time I just felt this urgency just to get a job pretty quickly. So I wasn't all that fussy and there weren't heaps of jobs around at the time. So this was kind of mid two thousands and I got a job at Fairfax, so working for the age and afr, et cetera. And it was an advisor level role and it was a pretty cool role. But I left after it, it was just under a year I was in a role again, it was kind of a central role providing centralized support and there were just a few red flags for me working there. Anyway, so I made the call early on so I was starting to get a little bit more serious about my career at this point and I thought, no, I need to be somewhere where I think I can make a difference.
(23:41):
So I made the call to leave and decided to get into the professional services world and got a job for a law firm and at the time it was called Black Dawon Waldron. Today it's known as Ashes. So they went through a couple name changes and a merger with a UK firm. So that's a pretty big global kind of top tier firm. And I remember my interview and I actually interviewed for a few places, but I really quite like this company. And I remember at the time thinking I know nothing about lawyers, All I know is what I've seen on tv, American lawyer TV shows where it's pretty cut the bro. And I thought, oh gosh, is this what's gonna be staying with Blake's at the time for about 10 years? And really, really enjoyed it, loved it actually. It was a great firm. Again, culturally not too dissimilar to Fontera when he stacked Blakes up against some of the other top tier firms.
(24:38):
So he had MALS and Free Hills and Allens, it was known as the firm that culturally was nicer basically. Some of the others were really, really cutthroat. But this was considered to be, you got access to great work but also it was just a little bit friendlier and a little bit more care. So that was quite important to me. So I joined, I think it was at as a consultant level, so people in culture consultant level. So my role was to partner with the partners and understand what their people needs were and support them. Shortly after I started, I think it was within my first year again, I must have seen something in me and I must have been doing okay. I got the tap on the shoulder to say the office in Canberra, they had a HR manager who'd left and they're about to recruit, but they needed someone just to fly and fly out and just cover the fort for a few months while they were recruiting.
(25:31):
And I said okay. So got to fly out to Canberra once a week and supported them as well and covering that for six months. And that was great again, just to build my network and understand the business a bit further. And then as that was winding up, I got the next tap on the shoulder and said, Right now we want you to go across to Perth. The HR manager there was taking a leap of absence for 18 months and they said, You're ready to be a manager now we want you to head over there. I went, Oh okay. So had a chat to my husband and he was in a role but he was not wed to it so he was open to leaving that and coming across to Perth. So it worked out well from a personal perspective. So off we went and we went across to Perth and that was my first manager role in Perth.
Chris Potts (26:23):
And it's interesting you say it, I feel like a lot of our lessons through our career have been very similar. I took a year off and worked on school camps. The things I speak to about my career is the opportunities that become available if you're willing to travel, if you are in a position where you can relocate for the business and take time and work from somewhere different, it does present a lot of opportunities for your career.
Suzie Grey (26:47):
So, so went to Perth and it was a great role. It was my first manager role. So first time leading a team. Again, my reflections I think both how much of it was at the time, but certain actually no I think it was a reflection at the time and certainly afterwards feeling like I'd just been thrown into it and not given any training at all or development on how to lead a team. And I had some curly people issues at the time. They were actually quite curly and I feel like I fumbled my way through it and I certainly learned a lot. <laugh> obviously you learn when you are, you've got the battle scars. But again, if I had my time again, I would probably put my hand up a little bit more than I did and say I actually could do with some sort of formal training or at least some coaching or guidance or mentoring from a paper leadership.
(27:46):
I knew my HR stuff, that stuff I was pretty comfortable with. But the people leadership bit was new to me and I did seek support, but I probably could have been a little bit more deliberate about it. But yeah, so enjoyed that. Got to dabble in a few different things that I hadn't done before, which was great and really enjoyed our time in Perth. And then as foreshadowed, I did give them a bit of a heads up, I was pretty generous and said, Look, I'm gonna plan to have a baby when I get back. So just so you know, cuz they'd backfilled my role in Melbourne and I said, just if you're getting someone there, you might need them for a little bit longer. And lo and behold that happened. So I came back to Melbourne to have my first child and then came back to work.
(28:36):
So had maternity leave, came back to work and pretty much on my first day had to tell 'em I was pregnant again. <laugh>, which was so embarrassing. I mean there's nothing to be embarrassed about but you do as a mother going on parental leave, there is this underlying feeling of guilt that you've, what's the word I'm looking for? Put the business in a position of oh God, now we've gotta go forward, et cetera. I mean I don't know if de had this or others have this as well, but there is an underlying feeling of what sort of word I'm looking for of oh the word will come to me,
Chris Potts (29:13):
Inconveniences,
Suzie Grey (29:14):
But inconvenience. That's the word. That's the exact word. When you do feel like you're being an inconvenience to the business, it's really hard to shake that actually.
Chris Potts (29:24):
Yeah, and it's really interesting. I was talking to my wife before this and she said it'd be interesting to hear this conversation play out. And cuz one of my reflections recently has been when I started as a manager, I was single and wasn't in that family stage and I went through a period where quite a number of my team were going on maternity leave and I was always internally pretty proud of the way I handled it and thought hat's off doing it. Well it's not until you're on this side of the fence that you sort fully understand the pressure and the stress that goes into going on to maternity leave and that career interruption and that feeling of guilt as you said, to inconvenience the business. And you've mentioned you did it twice, I think you did it three times in Yeah, it also that's not an insignificant amount of time out of your career and I'm just keen to understand from a career progression and how did you navigate that time of your life through making sure work knew you still had aspirations around work? Yeah,
Suzie Grey (30:32):
I mean for me it was never a question of whether I would have kids or not, that was just an absolute given. So I don't feel like I ever needed to even think about whether it's a choice or not. So it was absolute given and I knew that, as I said, I already gave them a heads up when I'm off at Perth, I said I'm gonna try and get pregnant when I'm in Perth so I'm gonna try and time it so when I'm due to come back, I go on mat leave. I was very open and honest with them at the time. And you look, you can only do that if you have true trust with your manager. You wouldn't be able to do that in all scenarios. But I did have that. So I guess I didn't put too much thought into it from, it was just a, well this is just what, what's gonna happen.
(31:14):
I think today would probably be a bit different because now people are more open to, and policies are more open to the father taking more time off. But when I did it, my son's 13 now, that wasn't really happening. So it wasn't really an option that anyone talked about or explored and the policies wouldn't have allowed for it so it wouldn't have been paid. So for me it was just an absolute given that I'm have a kid and I'm gonna take a year off and no much, we don't need to think about it too much more. But I did maintain the conversations work, knew that I was gonna be back and I was still career driven and I don't recall having to have too many more conversations about it really. But I felt pretty lucky and I felt pretty supported. I never felt as though I hadn't been supported.
Chris Potts (32:00):
Yeah, that's great. And it, it's really pleasing to hear and I think as you say, the times are changing and the next generation it's gonna be much more normalized than the previous. And the previous is better than the generation before it. And it's just part of that journey we're on. And to me, I think we probably don't spend enough time talking about and celebrating the careers that have continued around those leaves from work. And I think it's one of the real takeaways from your story is that you've taken the time out to have fun to travel, to do the jobs that really just ticked a box on life experience for you then didn't sort of lean away from, alright, it's now time to get serious at work, but it's also family time and you took that time out to spend with the kids and to do that and you're still where you are today, which is just it's just a really good lesson for anyone starting that career now.
Suzie Grey (32:59):
The balance is really, really important. So we might have to give some things up. We may not be chasing going for more senior roles. So for that period of time, for those few years, it was a deliberate decision that I'm not gonna be chasing more senior roles because I just can't now my kids are too little. The balance is really important. That's the number one priority. And it's working well and I'm actually really enjoying it, loving work, loving the home life. Had I not had kids it would've been different. I probably would've chased getting into more senior roles earlier and I don't regret it. It was that conscious choice at the time and I think it worked well.
Chris Potts (33:34):
Yeah, and it's just a continuation of that really nice message of not overly career planned, but at the same time you were a bit more life planned around your career at this stage and made that conscious decision. So at some stage, obviously you decided to part ways with that firm,
Suzie Grey (33:54):
Really enjoyed it got to work on a few amazing projects had my third child. And then while I was on parental leave I got the call from the manager at the time who said We've gotta make one of the roles redundant. There's three that gotta go into two. And I said, perfect, I've been here long enough. And I knew that my colleagues at the time wanted to stay, so it was a win-win for everyone. So I took a redundancy, it enabled me to stay a little bit longer. I was only planning to have parental leave for about nine months and I actually wasn't ready to come back. So I ended up having just a bit over 13, 14 months or something like that. And so that's when I felt like I started to get a little bit more serious, <laugh> and a little bit, not serious, I was serious, but a little bit more deliberate about the next move.
(34:42):
But I was pretty open. I knew I didn't want to move into another law firm that could have been really easy for me and I could have stepped up really quite easily. But I felt like I, I'd learn what I could learn. There wasn't much more that I was gonna be able to do in a law firm, <affirmative>. And I felt like I needed to get out into the big world. Cause law firms being kind of private practice where they're kind of owned and it's a simple business model. It's just a service that you're delivering it. And a fellow needed something a bit more kind of complex and then, hey <laugh>, I don't think you could design it even more complex than Fontera is. So I was pretty open, spoke to a few recruiters and I said, I'm not quite sure what industry, but the safe bet will be legal.
(35:27):
I don't wanna do that. The next safe bet will be professional services or banking or something like that. My CV lended itself perfectly to that. And I could have walked in, maybe not walked in, but easily gotten a role. But again, I was worried that it was gonna be too much of the same and I wasn't going to have that stretch that I was really now yearning for. And so a recruiter told me about this role at Fontera, it was a six month contract at the time, and I thought, well six months, it enables me to suss it out. They can suss me out, I can check it out, totally different industry and make a call on whether I like it or not. So <laugh> not knowing really anything about Fontera. And so I rocked up and so I was in a HR manager role looking after the corporate side of the business.
(36:15):
So it was an easier transition. So supporting sales and marketing teams and the commercial teams. And then over the last couple of years kind of chopped and changed. So our director left, I stepped in to support to hold for the director role for about a year. And that was an interesting time. I put my hand up formally for the role, so you might recall. And it was actually a really hard time. So this is during Covid as well. So lockdown and we all went through that. So you're trying to deal with that. And kids working at home and was doing school homeschooling. So tough. Life was pretty tough anyway in that year, wasn't it? And then you add on top of it, you're working in HR and all of a sudden your role in the business and supporting the business has being elevated even more.
(36:55):
And then there was always this thing hanging over my head of, well what's the future hold for me? Am I gonna be considered for the director? Am I even ready? I don't know, I don't think that I'm ready. And yet people talking, people saying stuff like, Oh yes, you'd be great. And it kind of gets you playing with your mind a little bit. And that imposter syndrome really kicked into gear massively. So I formally did put my hand up for the role and obviously didn't get it at the time. And that was quite a tough period because I felt almost embarrassed actually. And I remember talking to a few people about it. I said, Why would you feel embarrassed? And I thought, well, because in my gut I knew I wasn't ready. I knew I wasn't ready. I knew it'd be too much of a step up at that time, but yet I almost felt like I was convinced that I should put my hand up and that I'd be ready at only to be told a week after, Nah, you're not ready.
(37:52):
And I thought, why did you make me do it? I would've been better off not putting my hand up cause I knew I, I wasn't ready. Anyway, I got over that pretty quickly and realized that, oh well that just happens sometimes. And it's what you do afterwards, it's how you deal with it afterwards that matters. And obviously we got a new directory and who was fantastic and I could see straight away why that decision was made. I was like, of course you needed something different from what I could bring at the time. And so then I moved into a new role and that was my first role into a more specialized area. So leading inclusion and diversity and talent, it was a new role for Fontera. So it enabled me to develop and further develop some of the skills that I hadn't had the opportunity to do.
(38:35):
And that was me more of that strategic space. So that was a lot of fun. And that was Frontier starting on a blank piece of paper in some of those topics. Not so much talent, but definitely I N D where we just had not even spoken about it previously and got to work with leadership team and across the business in developing our strategies for both of those areas, which is a lot of fun. And in my mind I was pretty content and I thought, okay, I'm, I'm really quite happy. I'll do this for three years and then that might set me up for the director role and Trace who had come in into the director role at that time. Again, gosh, alerts so much in, in such a short space of time, it's incredible the amount you can learn really through others and got to learn a lot more about some of the stuff we talked about before, articulating your skills, being really clear on actually what is it that you're wanting to develop and how can you get that out of your role.
(39:30):
And it's not about going off to courses, et cetera, it's just be about being smart and mindful about what the way that you currently do something and the way that you wanna do it and what's that shift and how do you be deliberate about getting that shift. So I felt like I learned, learned a lot about that. And we also had a lot of very open conversations about getting you ready for this role in the future. And then you fast forward to earlier this year and Trace took me out for lunch <laugh>, and she said, Oh, did you see that notice about an internal move globally? Someone in HR globally had moved into a secondment role and said, yeah, yeah, hadn't even put to my mind to it anyway. And that's when she let me know that she was gonna be seconded into a global role and they'd made the decision to put me into the director role <laugh>.
(40:20):
And I just thought, I remember thinking at the beginning going, No, no, I'm not doing this again, not doing this again, not ready for it, thanks, but no thanks. <laugh>, yes was my initial thought, actually felt pretty sick to the stomach or not that I was convinced. I quickly turned around to say, someone's offering you an opportunity, you never say no. You always say yes and you just do it and you figure it out. So obviously moved into that path, but what we talked about was the experiences gained and even those last couple of years were so deliberate in being able to set me up to and be able to demonstrate my capacity to be able to do the role that it is today. And so yes, I've been in the role since then and
Chris Potts (40:59):
It's amazing and I was one of those people who was very confident that you weren't ready back when you were ready the first time. And our time with you in the role now didn't overlap at all, but I have absolutely no doubt that you are ready and the right person for that role. And it's just been really interesting to hear that since I always finished with three questions, one of which I think we've covered off, which was around what would you do differently? And you spoke about the asking questions and being more reflective from the very start. What advice would you give someone starting out their career journey now?
Suzie Grey (41:31):
Probably one of the pieces advice would be just talk to a lot of people. It's incredible the amount of knowledge you get from talking to people, but specifically about career and even if you don't know what you're gonna ask, just having a conversation. Even these kind of podcasts, just understanding what people think and what they do and and how they've navigated their career. You just learn so much and you just get these little pockets and of wisdom that you can then bring to yourself and make some decisions because there's no one career path. And even more so today compared to what it was in the past, which was it was quite a linear career path. These days you'll chop and change out of industries functions, you'll go up, down, sideways. That's gonna be more and more the norm. And so the more you talk to people about their career and just learning and asking those questions, I think it would be the biggest thing, the biggest piece of advice I would give anyone, just as you said, stay curious, learn from people. It's an incredible resource that you can have. Yeah,
Chris Potts (42:30):
Perfect. And I couldn't agree more and at the very last question is what next for you?
Suzie Grey (42:36):
Yeah, look, I wanna be able to do this job for at least three years, please <laugh>. But yeah, I'm really quite, I know what I wanna get out of the role, which is a sense of accomplishment of this is the stamp that I've had on the role and I'd like to leave a legacy to say in the time that I led this function and this part of the business, this is what I've been able to bring that maybe someone else would've done it differently or they didn't do it. So that for me is the key focus. And so I'd like to be able to do this for a few years and I'd like to still continue to grow. I think for me career-wise, HR is where I love to play. I don't know that I'd necessarily move into another function, but I'd never say no.
(43:18):
But I love this space really enjoying so much more to do. I'd love at some point to be able to live and work overseas. I'd love to be able to get the family and do a bit of a stint. That light has never truly gone for me <affirmative>. Yeah. So I think for the time being, I'm just concentrating on the here and the now and know that I know mean my experience tells me that opportunities continue to come up. So I try not to worry about it too much, but just focus on what I need to do today.
Chris Potts (43:43):
That's awesome. So thanks very much for that. We've obviously spent a little bit of time trying to find a time and a place to do this recording and I've really enjoyed the conversation. One of the things I really like about doing this is not doing the research into someone's career path before the conversation and sort finding that out as we go through it. And even in a bit with people I've worked with or known for a number of years, it's still really interesting to have these conversations and as you said, the value of just these conversations to people's own career path is is invaluable. So I just wanna say thank you very much for making the time and sharing your story with us.
Suzie Grey (44:17):
You're welcome.
Chris Potts (44:18):
So it was our conversation that I had with Susie. As I said from the outset, it was one that I really enjoyed and I hope that you took from it as much as I did. I personally thought it was fascinating. The three clear areas of focus for Susie throughout her career journey. The first one was a whole lot about travel, enjoying her life and just getting out there and building some experiences. Second one admittedly, and this won't be for everyone and people will approach this differently, but Susie was quite open and honest about that time that she spent establishing her family and the leave that she had to take from work as a result of that and the way that she approached that, then ultimately her return back into the workforce and how she used that time to really commit to focusing on work and becoming as successful as she can.
(45:11):
And she certainly has every conversation I have with Susie, every time I talk to her about work and just careers, I'm inspired and motivated about my own and they're just conversations that I really enjoy and get a lot out of. So I hope it was the same for you. I think we can agree that Susie is certainly a valuable asset to her current employer and she works there with such passion and dedication that it's really pleasing to see. So that's it. That's my take on today's conversation with Susie. As I say, I hope you enjoyed it. I would personally appreciate it if you can share the link to this podcast with your friends and family, especially those that are on their career journey at the moment. Alternative, you can just jump into one of your apps and give some ratings or feedback. That would be terrific. Thank you.