We think we know the path we must take for our chosen careers. The linear path from school, uni and career. In this conversation I discuss with David Turner how this is changing. I went to school (Trinity Grammar School Kew) with David and from the day I met him, he knew he wanted to be a doctor.
In this episode I invite you to join the conversation I had with him about his path to achieving this goal. Importantly, while David's story is connected to his journey into medicine, what he shares is valuable to anyone starting to think about their futures, as it highlights the importance of passion, the possibility of set backs and celebrates the variable paths available to getting to an end point which is important when faced with the question "Is this really what I want?"
We think we know the path we must take for our chosen careers. The linear path from school, uni and career. In this conversation I discuss with David Turner how this is changing. I went to school (Trinity Grammar School Kew) with David and from the day I met him, he knew he wanted to be a doctor.
In this episode I invite you to join the conversation I had with him about his path to achieving this goal. Importantly, while David's story is connected to his journey into medicine, what he shares is valuable to anyone starting to think about their futures, as it highlights the importance of passion, the possibility of set backs and celebrates the variable paths available to getting to an end point which is important when faced with the question "Is this really what I want?"
Chris Potts:
Hello, and welcome to Careers Night, the podcast where we ask our guests, what's your job and how did you get there? Today's guest is a good friend of mine from my school days at Trinity Grammar, Dr. David Turner. It's a really interesting conversation. And one, I hope you'll hang around and listen to. In this chat, Dave gets nice and vulnerable. He talks to us about the non-linear path that he and many doctors take, joining the field of medicine. So I hope you hang around for the conversation and happy to join us. We really look forward to sharing this story with you. I'd like to start by welcoming you, David, and thank you for joining us. Let's kick it off with telling us a little bit about what your job is.
Dr. David Turner:
My job currently, is as an infectious diseases physician. So I'm trained as a doctor and my specialty area is broadly infectious diseases. So my job covers off a range of things, from directly treating and caring for patients, who have infections to more generalized problems. Because I work in sort of general medicine as well. This is all hospital based, seeing patients in outpatient clinics with both general medical and infectious diseases problems.
Dr. David Turner:
But beyond just treating patients this year, particularly with the pandemic, I've also moved into doing some more kind of administrative type work. So policy and procedure development, and kind of oversight at a governance level, which is just kind of how the hospital, as a bigger machine, operates. So giving some advice about those sorts of things and also supervision and training of registrars. So I do a lot of teaching as well. So it's pretty broad. And whilst a lot of people think that doctors just spend their time sitting one-on-one with patients. Yes, I do plenty of that. But there's a lot of other stuff that I fit into my day, that provides different kind of stimulation and different experiences.
Chris Potts:
Thank you. And pre-pandemic, where right now everyone's talking about infectious diseases and things like that. You obviously got into this field years before a pandemic like this came about. And what are infectious diseases outside of pandemics that you sort of deal in and specialize in?
Dr. David Turner:
So again, it's pretty broad. So one of the things that drew me to infectious diseases was that I like all their areas of medicine. I couldn't really decide what I wanted to do. And infectious diseases keeps you involved with every other specialty in the hospital. So every specialty group has infections. And obviously, within their specialty, they're quite capable of managing those independently. But as they get a bit more complex, they often ask us for help. So I really enjoy the fact that I get to still be involved with the surgeon, still be involved with radiology, with pathology, with general practitioners out in the community. I get to cover off all of that. And I also love the detective part of it.
Dr. David Turner:
So a lot of what I do is, a patient will come into hospital, they'll be seen by a certain group of doctors. They won't necessarily know exactly what's going on and they'll often call me because the patient will have had a temperature, or will have traveled overseas, or they will live on a farm, or something weird like that. And they'll call me and say, "Do you think this could be an infection? What do you think is going on?" And I have the luxury, because of what I do, of probably having a little bit more time than a lot of other doctors, to go and spend that time and try and sift through everything that's going on and try and work out whether it's an infection or if it's not an infection, what else it might be. And try and order the right tests and organize the right treatment and get people well again.
Chris Potts:
The second part of the questioning here is, let's pull apart the journey to how you got to where you are now. And I suspect when you were a boy in year seven, you probably didn't dream of being an infectious disease doctor. But I imagine part of that might have been in what you aspired to. Do you recall when you first decided you wanted to be a doctor of any sort?
Dr. David Turner:
Yeah, I think it's something that, it was always a career that interested me. I grew up in a medical family, like lots of doctors. My mother was a nurse and my father's a surgeon. So I had that exposure from a young age and I think that's a double edged sword. I think there's a perception, sometimes that medical families push their children to become doctors. And I certainly know people, being a doctor, I know other doctors where that's very true. But I also think there's a realism to it as well.
Dr. David Turner:
I think I had a much better understanding of what is actually involved in a career in medicine, rather than getting that information from the television or from other sources where you may not fully understand. So I always sort of had that as an idea of something I might want to do. I certainly had a long period in my life, like lots of other children, where I wanted to be a Marine biologist and swim with dolphins. But I'm also an asthmatic, which kind of put the scuba diving on the back burner. And I had to come to terms with that at some point in my youth as well.
Chris Potts:
We met year nine. And from my memory, from that point, you always wanted to be a doctor. So by then, you had certainly cemented the desire. What part did that play in subject selection throughout school?
Dr. David Turner:
I was always more kind of math, science folk anyway. So from my perspective, that fitted in really well with the sort of prerequisites that medicine had then. Medicine certainly has less prerequisites now. And I think that's a real positive thing to try and get people from a much broader range of backgrounds into medicine.
Chris Potts:
You talked about the fact that they've changed the prerequisites. What about that has changed? What did it look like then?
Dr. David Turner:
Yeah, so there's less of a math, science focus now. So back when I was getting into medicine, you had to do specific study in mathematics, in chemistry, and depending on the university, sometimes biology as well, as prerequisites to get into medicine. Whereas now, they've dropped a lot of that. But that's also because a lot of medical courses have gone to graduate entry from undergraduate entry. That transition sort of happened as I kind of came through my, I did an undergraduate degree, came through my undergraduate degree. And then went on to study medicine as a graduate.
Dr. David Turner:
So I think for anyone who is very keen to study medicine, I don't think you should necessarily pick a very maths and science heavy curriculum because you think that's the right thing to do. Having said that, there is a lot of mathematical thinking, a lot of scientific thinking that is involved in medicine. So again, getting that balance right. But if you're kind of thinking I have to do biology, chemistry, physics, and maths, and nothing else to become a doctor, that's totally untrue.
Dr. David Turner:
And some of the people I work with, who are the best doctors and not just good at peripheral areas, really good at being bedside doctors, are people who have backgrounds in arts degrees, people who have backgrounds in philosophy, and ethics, and all those kind of more humanities based fields. And that gives them a totally different perspective on dealing with people, a totally different perspective on understanding medicine. And obviously, they have a very strong scientific understanding now as well. But I think you can get a lot of benefit out of breadth, and not just overly focused on what you might perceive to be the very specific needs of that course.
Chris Potts:
I find that fascinating. I had no idea. I imagined that there were alternative channels, but I would never have dreamed that studying arts would get you into a medical degree.
Dr. David Turner:
It's not common. The well-trodden path is still the most common path, which is to either get into one of the few undergraduate medical degrees that still remain, like the degree at Monash University or to study science or biomedical science, and then transition from that into one of the graduate programs. And there's a lot of merit to that. Studying medicine is at times very difficult. There's a very large knowledge base that you have to cover, both because you need the knowledge for your work, but also to pass exams and those sorts of things. And if you're entering a medical course without any scientific background, you're going to find that very, very challenging. But as I said, there are other advantages that do come further down the line from having different background.
Dr. David Turner:
And I guess the key here is, just because you feel like you're more of a humanities based thinker, doesn't mean you should definitely think that medicine is not a career for you. And if you are a very scientific thinker, who loves doing all those math, science subjects, try and branch out at some point in your studies and do something different because the different thinking processes involved in studying history, or ethic, or any other humanities based subject, isn't just about breadth is good because it gives your mind a different focus. Breadth is good because it will make you better at what you do in the longer term as well. That perspective and that thinking will be far more useful than you might think, down the track.
Chris Potts:
Very interesting. So I guess back to you then, what was the path you took through you uni?
Dr. David Turner:
So I took the well-trodden path. I'm giving advice that I didn't follow. So I studied math and sciences, and then I went on and studied biomedical science. And then I went on, following biomedical science, to study a graduate medical degree. The real pluses to that were constantly building on the same knowledge base. And it certainly gave me the opportunity, at various points in my studies, to have a slightly more relaxed time at uni than some of the other people I was studying with were, which obviously gives you opportunities to incorporate other things into your life, whether that's sport, or social activities, or other things.
Dr. David Turner:
And again, that balance is hard. If you really just nose to the grindstone for years and years on end, it is very wearing and taxing. I've certainly gone through periods like that. And it's very easy for that to become quite overwhelming and for things to become all consuming. So it is that balance of thinking, how much additional experience and knowledge can I gain? And how is this going to help me long term versus it is actually okay to sometimes go, "You know what? If I go on this well-trodden path, I'm probably going to get six months here and 12 months there, where I probably don't have to work as hard as some other people do."
Dr. David Turner:
And it gives you a little bit more time in your life to focus on other things, which is really important. And I think whatever you choose too, you have to have a life outside of what you do. And I certainly used that opportunity to work in some other areas. I worked in hospitality for years and again, some of the skills I learned in hospitality are still critically important to what I do now. And not just those skills, specifically things like working in teams, working with different personalities, working under challenging, high pressure circumstances. They're all things that are very much in hospitality, that are in medicine. But also teaching you the understanding of what a workplace is.
Dr. David Turner:
So again, with medicine, because of the work that's required to get into medicine and to get through a medical degree, there are still a lot of people who come through, who their very first day ever of actual work is when they turn up on day one as an intern. And they really struggle because they don't have that previous experience of working and what it means to come to work. And sometimes you come to work and you're tired and sometimes you come to work and you're not in a good mood. And you've got to work through that and still do the best and make sure you're doing a good job. So whatever broad experience you can gain and whether that's in paid work, volunteer work, studying different things, reading, whatever it is, all of that does actually come together to make you better at what you ultimately end up pursuing.
Chris Potts:
Going back to uni, and you said you went well taken path of bio-med and into medicine. Was that by design?
Dr. David Turner:
No, I applied to a couple of the undergraduate medical schools and didn't get in, which was a really good learning experience for me. I think I came through school without a lot of challenges and without a lot of failures so to speak. We all have challenges in our life, but I'd never really failed at anything before-
Chris Potts:
No big setbacks.
Dr. David Turner:
Yeah, yeah. I'd kind of always, if I'd wanted to do something, I was able to do it and if I put my mind to it and wanted to achieve, well, I'd always done quite well at what I'd done. So it was a really important kind of point in my life to go, "Oh, okay. Well, I thought this was going to happen and it didn't. What does this mean?" And a really good opportunity to reflect and say, "Is this actually what I want to do? Would I be happy doing something else?"
Dr. David Turner:
And then when I worked through that and came back to the idea that this is actually what I really wanted to do, it set me on a very strong path to say, "No, no, no. I really want this for me." It was a good check to say, "Do I want this because my dad's a doctor and I want to be a doctor because that's what he does? Do I want this because I want the prestige of being a doctor. Do I want this because I want the financial security of being a doctor? Or do I want it because this is actually the career that I want and I'm passionate about?"
Dr. David Turner:
Because all of a sudden, having gone through and done the work that I'd done and not gotten in, it really opened that little door in my brain to say, "Okay, I thought I was working hard. I thought I was putting in the time and effort that it was going to be required. But it's actually going to be a lot more than what I thought it was. And do I really want to invest that time, and effort, and energy into this? Or do I want to pick something else?" And I think again, whatever you choose to do, that's a really important moment to say, "Am I doing this for the right reasons?"
Dr. David Turner:
And particularly, if you're picking any career that is highly competitive and highly challenging. And there's lots of careers like that out there. You do have to come to a decision point where you're like, "This is really what I want, and I'm doing it for the right reasons." Because as you said, there are bad days in every job, days where you don't feel like working, days where terrible things happen at work. And probably in medicine, there's more of those days where something really upsetting happens at work and if you're not there for the right reasons, if you're not there because you genuinely want to be there, it can be very hard to pick yourself up and do it again, and do it again, and do it again.
Dr. David Turner:
So I think that was a really important time for me to have that time of reflection. It was probably a good 12 to 18 months, where I started doing biomedical science, where I think I was probably really trying to convince myself, "No, no, no. Do science, be a scientist, go into the corporate world doing biotech or something like that. You'll be happy. It'll be great. You don't have to go through this process." But I just kept coming, there was just that niggling thing. "No, no. I'm not going to be happy unless I pursue this." And if that's what I really want to do, then certain sacrifices have to be made to say, "Well, I need to set more time aside to study. I need to set more time aside to get more experience."
Dr. David Turner:
I ended up working in a hospital as a theater orderly and technician for a couple of years before I got into medicine. And again, wonderful experience to have an opportunity to work in a hospital as someone who is perceived as quite low down the pecking order before you end up being a doctor is really important. I gained on how doctors are seen by other staff members in the hospital, and also really importantly, how some doctors choose to treat staff within the hospital, who they don't perceive as being their equals. And again, what a wonderful opportunity to get that perspective, to understand a bit more about how the workplace works, how the politics works. And then, now that I'm in the position that I am to hopefully, hopefully feel like I am more respectful to everyone who works in the hospital.
Dr. David Turner:
Because I know what it's like. I know what it's like to mop the floor of theater, and pick up the rubbish, and do all those sorts of things. You also know and understand how of critical all of those people are. And I think that's been a real thing in this pandemic as well, is a lot of people in the hospital have all of a sudden gone, "Oh, the person who cleans things is probably really important." And you're like, "Yeah, if they're not doing their job, cleaning the floors, and cleaning the beds, and restocking the PPE." All of those things are to how the hospital works. And I think, again, if you enter medicine with this idea that I just appear in this fully formed environment and give out the nuggets of wisdom to save the patient. And then I disappear to do the next one, you're not going to be terribly successful. And you're probably not going to be terribly well liked.
Chris Potts:
You talk about the hospital staff and everyone involved very much like a family that everyone has a part to play. and the importance of that. And I find that a really interesting insight.
Dr. David Turner:
As a junior doctor, you spend a lot of time in the hospital. And if you see that as your family to some extent, because they're not your family. But you know what I'm saying?
Chris Potts:
Yes.
Dr. David Turner:
If you see it as that family type environment, where you support each other, again, you get on a lot better with people. You cope with the job a lot better. A lot of people who go into medical careers, whether that's nursing, or medicine, or allied health, who work in hospitals, you do become part of a, a family, because for most people, you experience things that nobody else else ever gets to experience. You need the support of other people who who know and understand that. And obviously lots of jobs have, have very challenging situations, but when you're in a hospital and you're you're there when someone dies, you're there, when someone is receiving the worst news they're they're ever going to receive, you are there when you make a, or a colleague makes a mistake that ends up harming somebody.
Dr. David Turner:
And these aren't experiences that a lot of people will necessarily get to have. And you need that support from people who, people who also understand that they're unfortunately still are some people coming through medicine who very much have that idea that I'm strong. I'm all powerful. I can deal with this all on my own because particularly doctors, because I am a doctor and I am wonderful. And you just can't take all of that on yourself. So the better you are at reaching out to others, at forming these communities. And whether that is a community of other doctors, a community of doctors, and nurses, and allied health people, and others who work in the hospital, all of those things help provide that support network to make you better at what you do, better at caring for patients, give you a broader perspective.
Chris Potts:
Do you recall the first time that you required that support, that assistance from the people around you?
Dr. David Turner:
So I was very fortunate in my training. So I took a bit of a different path in my medical school training as well. I chose to go to the rural clinical school of the university that I went to, which means I got to live and study with fellow medical students. And through various turn of events, I think when you young, critical mass is an important thing and a certain number of people choose to do something. A whole lot of other people just kind of come along. And I was friends with a few people who were interested in rural medicine, and we sort of all said, "Yeah, we're going to go to the country and we're going to learn something different. It's going to be great." And a few other people, who were friends that sort of thought, "Wow, don't necessarily want to live at home with my parents anymore. And this seems all right."
Dr. David Turner:
So we ended up as a group with quite a lot of people, who I'm still friends with now, some who I was friends with before I moved there and some who I made very strong friendships living with those people for a year. And despite the fact you're nowhere near as immersed in it as a medical student, as you are once you're a doctor, those first times that your present for things, even though, as a medical student, you're just the fly on the wall, mostly wishing you weren't in the room while this was going on, to be there and have to try and process what you've just witnessed, whether that is something kind of traumatic and graphic, in terms of there was lots of bleeding or whatever. Or just something that was emotionally very challenging, discussions around death and dying, and people receiving terrible diagnoses, and those sorts of things. To be able to speak to other people who were there, other people who share that experience, particularly other people who are at a similar standing to you.
Dr. David Turner:
And then also because you start to understand that community of the hospital, knowing that as a medical student, if I speak to the intern or the registrar, who are kind of the first doctors on that pecking order, you get a different perspective again. And it just gives you that ability to process that experience and learn some coping strategies to try and deal with that. Because yeah, unfortunately, when you work in medicine, you have challenging situations, they're not infrequent. And you have to learn to deal with it and process it and use it as part of your kind of lived experience, to pick yourself up and go and do it again. Because you do, something terrible will happen and five minutes later, you have to go and do something else. And that is a real challenge. And that takes a lot of time, and support, and reflection to get to that point, where you can process things, hopefully, in a relatively healthy way and not in an unhealthy way.
Chris Potts:
Yeah, which I suspect is a real risk and a real reality for some people in the industry. I think we caught up two years ago, when you had finished your formal studies.
Dr. David Turner:
Yeah. So I mean, medicine's this very, very long path depending on where you want to end up. So I started full-time work nine years ago this year. That's as an intern. That's your first year in the hospital. Everyone who goes through medicine has to do this full-time year, as what's called an intern. And that's your first year and you rotate around the hospital, doing a bit of everything. And then as the years progressed from there, you start to slowly specialize and again, in whatever you choose to do. So whether that's more hospital medicine and then you choose medicine, or surgery, or radiology, or you go off into the community, to do general practice. And you just keep specializing further and further.
Dr. David Turner:
So I did seven years of formal in-hospital training. Now that's all in a full-time job, with a full-time wage kind of thing. But again, they're very challenging years because often it ebbs and flows throughout that seven years. But there's lots of periods during that seven years, where you do a full day of work and then you come home and you got to hit the books or the computer. And study, and learn and push yourself. But it sets you up well, because I still do that. I still have to come home from work. And again, time goes on, you probably spend less after hours time studying. It's not like you're in that kind of full on race every year.
Dr. David Turner:
But I still have to come home and read things, read journal articles, read information, look up my patients, research what I think might be going on. That's still very much a part of what I do. So it is a profession. Again, it depends, there's lots of different choices in medicine. But the choices I've made to be where I am, it can be difficult at times to completely walk away from it and say, "Look, I'm not on it all at the moment." It can be fairly all encompassing. But that's certainly not the only option in medicine. There's other paths you can follow, that are a bit more on/off, when you're at work, you're at work and when you're not at work, you're not at work. But there's certainly some all encompassing areas as well.
Chris Potts:
You mentioned earlier that balancing life and the way you approached your study meant that you got to do other things. And my memory of your time while you were studying was certainly mountain bike riding through the bush and the home brew beer is something I remember you were getting pretty passionate about. And I know that you've always been a keen golfer. How have you managed that balance?
Dr. David Turner:
This year is not a very good example of my work-life balance, but that can happen from time to time. And I think you just have to try and have that awareness. And say, "Well, is this time limited? Are things going to change?" And if they're going to change in the short term and it's a crisis, it's worth putting in that extra effort and sacrificing your work life-balance for a period of time. But if it is endless, then you have to say, "Well, how long can I sustain this for? And what changes do I need to make to get that better?"
Dr. David Turner:
I think I came to the realization quite early on, that if I gave myself time away from study, away from work, when I was there, I was much more functional and efficient. And I think that's absolutely critical, that if you spend some time away from study and then you work out how you feel that time, I think it's critically important that people exercise, engage the rest of your body, clear your mind. And also something social, whatever that social outlet for you is, to engage with other people and just relax your mind. I think when you come to do your study, you're so much more efficient. You get so much more done, and you create a situation that's sustainable.
Dr. David Turner:
But certainly, once you get out to that sort of two, three, four, five month period, things start to fall apart. And they fall apart because your brain is so stimulated and so on so much of the time, that you do burnout and burnout is one of these funny terms that's kind of thrown out. I don't think I necessarily fully appreciate what the term burnout means, because I think it can mean different things to different people. But you certainly get to a point where you run the risk of losing your mental health, or losing your empathy for other people, or losing your passion for what you do, or whatever it is.
Dr. David Turner:
And you do have to be aware of that and balance it. And it's acceptable to have brief periods of time in your life where you do get that balance out of whack a bit, but you need to be aware of that and say, "Okay. Well, how long can I reasonably sustain this for? And how am I going to help this situation? Because I know I'm more efficient. And I know in the long term, I'll get more done, achieve more, be happier and be better at what I do if I create some balance in my life." And for me, that's do definitely some exercise, definitely time with family, with friends, that social outlet, that physical outlet. And it keeps you so much more balanced and makes you a lot better at what you do.
Chris Potts:
Perfect, love that. And I think it's true for any job, any study, whatever you're doing, yeah. We find the exact same thing that when we get a bit bogged down at work here and sort of skip the gym a couple of days, it really makes a difference to mood and ability to deliver well at work. We'll move into just the final three. So these are just nice, short, sharp answers. First one being, anything you would do differently if you were to start this journey now?
Dr. David Turner:
I don't think there's anything specific I would do differently, I think as time's gone on, you become more aware of how valuable it is to create time to reflect on what you've experienced, and what it means, and how you can draw on that experience to make yourself better going forward.
Chris Potts:
Yeah, I was having a very similar conversation, I think it was yesterday. I was sort of reflecting on something I've done a few times and I'm not getting any better at it. It's sourdough baking and it's sort of just hit that plateau. And I was like, just simply doing something over and over again is not going to make you any better at it, unless you take the time to reflect and say, "Right, what did I do better that time that worked or what didn't take place this time, that meant, perhaps, the results not as strong as I would've hoped?" So I think that's amazing to hear. What's next for you?
Dr. David Turner:
Wait for the pandemic to end and hope that we don't get another one anytime soon, is pretty high on my list at the moment, probably in the short term, we've still got the vaccine rollout to deal with, so the hospitals that I work at, I'm very much involved in how we're going to roll this out, how we're going to provide the education and support to our staff, to feel confident to take the vaccine when it becomes available. It's still sort of unclear how much we're going to have to involve in vaccinating the community as well. So we're still sort of working through that.
Dr. David Turner:
Longer term, I really love just seeing patients and helping to teach and guide junior doctors. So I still very much see that once we get through this, it's been wonderful to see some different things and be involved in the greater machine that is the hospital, rather than just at the bedside. But I still think the longer term plan is to get back to the bedside, get back to treating people, to looking after patients, to helping make those diagnoses, and to try and transfer some of that skill to other junior doctors. Because I'm certainly really passionate about trying to make the experience, for those coming through, as positive as it can be. And I certainly get a lot of enjoyment out of investing that time and seeing other clinicians grow in their capacity.
Chris Potts:
Fantastic, and the last question. One piece of advice you'd pass on to anyone listening, who's sort of still doing their studies.
Dr. David Turner:
Any opportunity you have to talk to someone who is actually doing the job you think you want to do is extremely valuable. I grew up in a medical household and I thought I wanted to be a doctor. And working as a doctor is still drastically different. And there are so many more opportunities in medicine than I ever thought existed when I was in high school, and even when I was in university, and probably even when I was an intern. That growth is huge. And I think we have very fixed perceptions when we're younger, about where a certain university degree might take us, where a certain qualification might take us, where certain training might take us.
Dr. David Turner:
And I think the more you can speak to the people who are in careers, in professions, both with two questions for those people. One, what do you actually do day-to-day? And is the day-to-day of where I'm heading, what I actually want to do or is the kind of idealized view the same? And also try and find out where they think the profession is heading. Because from where you are now to where you'll be in 15, 20 of years' time, the job, the profession, the career, the work, it might have totally changed. So the more you can talk to people who are actually working in whatever industry you're interested in, about what they actually do day-to-day and where they perceive things heading. I think the better placed you are to have a really realistic view about where you're heading.
Dr. David Turner:
And that way, when things are difficult, or when you're a bit bored, or a bit whatever it is, you have a better perception and you're not going to end up waking up one day and thinking, "This isn't anything like what I thought it was going to be and I really don't like it." So I love what I do. I love turning up to work every day. Most of the doctors that I work with love what they do and love turning up to work every day. And that's a really positive environment to work in. So if you can find what you love, and pursue it, and have a realistic understanding of what that profession entails, I think you'll be wildly successful at whatever you choose to do.
Chris Potts:
That's awesome. And perhaps some questions we should be exploring in our second interview with you, David, at some stage in the future. But I'm madly writing them down and too that I'll add to my interviews in the future. So thanks very much for your time, really enjoyed it. And time's flown by, and it's very interesting and insightful.
Dr. David Turner:
Not at all, not at all. Thanks very much for inviting me on.
Chris Potts:
Well, that's our chat with my good friend, David Turner. I hope you got a lot out of it. I think for me, the bit that resonates most strongly and what I hope that each of you enjoyed about the conversation, is that these careers, these journeys, while they feel like there's an obvious path forward, like there's only one way to get to where we want to be, this is not the case.
Chris Potts:
That even in a field as rigid and as straightforward as medicine, that there's alternative journeys to take, that the world is changing, that it's lifting its eyes and it's identifying the different, unique skill sets and different unique path that people can bring to our field of medicine or our careers. And it's just so pleasing to see, and something that I was really glad and pleased to be able to share with you. So I hope you enjoyed listening to this chat. I look forward to speaking with you again soon.