Lisa joins me and discusses her journey from school, how she was influenced to spend a decade studying and working in law instead of following her creative passion. After establishing a successful career, she took a pay cut to pursue her passion, and started a new career in marketing.
Now the founder of digital marketing firm CODI Agency, Lisa shares with us how she turned her passion for social media, into a career for herself and her team.
Want to look into a career in digital marketing? or worried that your subject choice in school dictates the rest of your life? Then please join us for this conversation.
Lisa joins me and discusses her journey from school, how she was influenced to spend a decade studying and working in law instead of following her creative passion. After establishing a successful career, she took a pay cut to pursue her passion, and started a new career in marketing.
Now the founder of digital marketing firm CODI Agency, Lisa shares with us how she turned her passion for social media, into a career for herself and her team.
Want to look into a career in digital marketing? or worried that your subject choice in school dictates the rest of your life? Then please join us for this conversation.
Chris:
Hello, and welcome back for another episode of Careers Night. My name is Chris Potts, and this is the podcast where we ask our guests, what's your job and how did you get there?
Chris:
This week I was extremely fortunate to spend some time with Lisa Teh. She talks to us and shares with us, her journey into her career of digital marketing. There's a few things that I want you to, sort of, really pay attention to in this discussion and I hope you hang around for it. In particular, focusing on the pressure that Lisa felt during school and through uni to pursue a traditional career. And the time that she spent doing that, that she was able to identify that this wasn't what she wanted to do, that this wasn't a passion of hers and not something that she wanted to spend the rest of her life doing, so how she was able to pivot her career trajectory into something that she absolutely loves.
Chris:
Mostly though, I want everyone to focus on here, that the joy and the happiness that Lisa has in talking about her career and her profession. How she pursued her passion to ensure that she's living a life that she just absolutely loves. So I don't want to detract too much from the story here, so I hope you hang around for the discussion, I think it's one that you'll really enjoy, let's get into it.
Chris:
Thank you, and welcome Lisa. It's very exciting, so thank you for making the time.
Lisa:
Thank you so much, Chris. I'm really excited to have a chat today and sharing about my story and talk all things, digital marketing.
Chris:
Thank you very much, so as I do in all my episodes, there's two questions I focus on, and the first one is around what do you do, and the subsequent one is the one we'll spend most of our time on is, how did you get there? So what do you do?
Lisa:
Look, where I start? I guess, I would say that my 9:00 to 5:00 or really 8:00 to 11:00 [inaudible 00:01:46] is running CODI Agency, which is a digital marketing company that I founded about five years ago now. And then, at the moment, I've got a few different little side projects that I'm also working on.
Lisa:
So I'm trying to write a business book, it's been taking bit of a while, but that's really enjoyable. And then I'm also building a tech platform called Lisnic, which will help mentees and mentors connect all around the world. And so that could be anyone, from people looking to fast track their career, start or scale a business. And yeah, they can just list a job with whatever budget they have, and then mentors can bid on that, so similar model to a freelancer.
Lisa:
So, that sort of keeps me busy and then my husband and I have a toothpaste company called 101 Lifestyle, toothpaste, mouthwash, and tooth toothbrush company. I've actually got someone here.
Chris:
Wow.
Lisa:
Shameless plug, which is Dr. Mecca. So that sort of pretty much is running itself, but that's sort of another side project. So I like to keep really busy because otherwise I just love shopping and burning money and doing all that sort of bad stuff, so I think business keeps me out of trouble.
Chris:
Fantastic, and the agency, you started five years ago, what's involved in that, what do they do?
Lisa:
Yes, so what we do is digital marketing. So we do everything from social media management, content creation, working with influencers, anything in that paid social space as well, personal branding, branding graphic design, email, so pretty much almost anything digital, we'll probably be able to execute. And it's honestly, I feel so, so lucky to have found something that I love because it wasn't always the case for me, which I'll touch on a bit later, but the world of digital is crazy. It's always changing, there's new things coming out all the time, so at the moment I'm all over Clubhouse.[crosstalk 00:03:38] So yeah, I can touch on that a little bit if you want me but yeah, it's just a very interesting dynamic field. And when I started my career, I was in quite a traditional, slow moving field. So to be in an industry where there's changes happening, literally daily, is really exciting.
Chris:
And it is a space that evolves regularly and it's impossible to keep up with and it's very known. And I'm sure it'll be incredibly interesting to hear how you got there, for all of our listeners.
Lisa:
Yeah, look, it was really interesting journey, but I'm glad I got here.
Chris:
Yeah, excellent, so if we go back to the start of that journey, I always like to start with your schooling and year 9 and 10, if we can go back that far, which give your school a shameless plug, here as well.
Lisa:
I will actually, because I went to school with your wife. So-
Chris:
Yes, you did.
Lisa:
Such a small world, but I went to PLC, which is in Burwood, in Melbourne. And I think a lot of people look back on their school life and some of them have not the best experiences, I would say that I had an amazing experience at school.
Chris:
All right, so when you were at PLC, year 9 and 10, what did you want to be when you grew up then?
Lisa:
It's actually funny you say that because I was doing a talk today for International Women's Day. And when I actually was younger, I wanted to be a librarian. So-
Chris:
Interesting.
Lisa:
I don't know what, I love books, a librarian like a dolphin trainer, loved dolphin.
Chris:
Yep.
Lisa:
Awkward, I was [inaudible 00:05:01] with dolphins, but I'd say probably year 9 and 10, I love fashion. So, that was something that I was really passionate about, and I did have ambitions to be a fashion designer, but my parents are pretty conservative. So they were very much like, oh, I don't know if you can make a career out of that, so go down maybe more conservative path, so I ended up doing Com Law at uni. So I definitely didn't end up unfortunately, down that fashion route, but it's probably not a bad thing because I used to make my own clothes at uni and they were terrible. So I don't think anyone would've bought them.
Chris:
So at school year 9,10, you wanted to be in fashion and as you've said, you've ultimately ended up studying Com Law at university. What happened between A and B there?
Lisa:
Yeah, look, I think really for me, my parents were very influential and I think that they both migrated here from Malaysia and they met here and they ended up getting married and then had my brother and I here. And for them, I feel that they're very much quite conservative because they want my brother and I to be financially secure. They've obviously come from a country, where there might not have been that many opportunities. They're both one of nine children, which is like... I think that's crazy. I'm like, oh my God, how did you even... I didn't even survive with that many brothers and sisters. They very much wanted my brother and I to have financial security. So I think along the way, I was like, oh, maybe it's not the right choice for me to go down that more creative path.
Lisa:
And I ended up just going down, I think something that... I don't think that they pushed me in that direction. Like it wasn't anything like that at all. I think it was more me then going, okay, look, maybe I should try something which is a little bit more general and see how I go down that path. So they've been very supportive. I don't think they really understand what I do, they're very much like, what is the Facebooks? what are you doing? But if I ever need a hand with anything, they're always really supportive. So yeah, very lucky to have great parents like that. But I would say yes to answer your question, I think I just wasn't really sure what I wanted to do, I knew what I liked, but I wasn't sure. So I think I ended up just going down that path because it gave me options in the future.
Chris:
And I think that's an interesting message, isn't it? And there's a couple in there, which we should probably explore a little bit. And the first one which has come up a few times, is this, am I studying or am I exploring a career that I think is the one, my parents want me to explore?
Lisa:
Yes.
Chris:
Is that expectation and pressure from my parents real? Or is it perceived as what I think is successful? And then subsequent to that, it's that element of actually, ultimately, finding something you enjoy and how do you steer back towards that? And was there a point that you found your parents were subconsciously or consciously pointing you towards the Law Commerce degree?
Lisa:
I think they were very consciously pointing [inaudible 00:07:55]
Chris:
All right.
Lisa:
Very conservative, and I think because I felt I had my heart set on. Absolutely, yes, I must become a fashion designer at all costs, which subsequently, I've met plenty of fashion designers and that I can see their talent and their raw passion for that and I got I was never like that. I think I wanted... Probably what I was looking for, was a creative outlet. And so I hadn't found that yet. So I was happy to kind of, I guess, be guided into something which was a bit more general. So it was definitely a conscious push on my parents' behalf, but I don't think it was a bad thing at all. It almost gave me a chance and time to mature. So I ended up being at uni for five years and I even look back now when I graduated uni, I'm still very immature.
Lisa:
Now don't get me wrong, I was really immature when I left uni and that, and then I went into the workforce. So my first job was at KPMG, I was working in the tax department there. I just think, oh my God, I was really immature back then. And I look at my team today because a lot of them are in their twenties. And I just think you guys are so much more switched on. You are so much more mature and you are going after what you want. You don't have that flip-flopping around, of no direction. And I think a big influence in that behavior is they have got so much more access to information.
Lisa:
I look back to when... I actually don't know how old you are, probably a lot younger than I am, but I look back to the way I would be obtaining information. I was at school, it's like looking at Encyclopedia Britannica, like that's how old I am. That's really old school, I looking at books that are really out of date, pretty much probably as soon as they're printed. So whereas, the youth of today... Oh, that makes me sound really old. The youth of today can access information with a click of a button and they can find out and learn so much quicker than I think that than we could.
Chris:
I think I'm only two years younger than you. So not that far and yeah, Encyclopedia on CDs. So again, they were outdated at the moment you bought them, weren't they? [inaudible 00:09:59] It is staggering if you get all these things very quickly. So how did you find studying Commercial Law at the time?
Lisa:
I'm not going to lie, law's pretty dry. It's not glamorous, I honestly thought it was going to be like Law & Order. And I was saying this the other day and I fully imagined that I'd walk into the courtroom and that Law & Order music would start playing. It'd be like... And I just walked in and I was like, oh, this is just not what I imagined.
Chris:
Pretty dry.
Lisa:
Yeah, pretty dry. So I actually, do believe that shows like Suits and Law & Order really glamorize it. But it's really like, it's a grind, like law isn't fun cases or interesting cases. Say, for example, if you wanted to go down that criminal law path, which I was seriously considering, it's very dark. And I was talking to actually someone that I caught up with recently and she was starting her career in criminal law.
Lisa:
And she was like, it was... She was like, I was sick. Like I, every day, there wasn't a day where I wasn't like throwing up because it was just the stuff that I saw was really intense. And I just thought, oh geez, that is definitely not something that I want to expose myself to every day. I think you have to be able to compartmentalize. So I think with my commerce degree, I ended up going to something a little bit more commercial and I'll be honest with you, it probably wasn't for me. I wouldn't say I was rushing to learn, I wouldn't say that I was really excited to learn because, you talk about... If you're doing something you love, then you're going to do it so much better because you're passionate about. I look at digital marketing now, I'm on social media all the time and it's because I love it.
Lisa:
And I've worked harder than I ever have in my life because I genuinely enjoy what I do. But when you don't have that passion, it's really hard to do amazing things and succeed. So I almost feel like, yes you might, your parents might tell you to go down a certain path and they might go, look, this is what's best for you now. And yes, you might give it a go, but ultimately you are always going to perform so much better if there's something that you love, because you're going to give it your heart and soul, you'll put in 110%.
Chris:
Absolutely, you've got to find that passion. And that's what motivates everyone. And in here, we hear that time and time again in these interviews, is people who are happy to sign on and talk about their careers and get involved in these conversations, the ones that just love what they do. And they're just so across such a broad field of occupations, and it's really exciting to hear that these jobs are out there for people and that the journey, that the path to each of the careers is anything but linear, and it's different for everyone. So you studied Commerce Law, you've gone and worked in the tax department at a fairly major organization. At what stage, did you discover digital marketing?
Lisa:
Good question, so I somehow stuck it out in law for seven years, I think it's seven years now. So I started at KPMG, I then moved to a law firm and then I moved to the tax office. So along the way, I actually discovered blogging, and that was probably around 2010. So really showing my age now, but it was very new at that time and I thought, oh what is this? It's really interesting. It's almost like a way that you can just talk and publish your thoughts.
Lisa:
There was nothing like a newspaper which had an editor, which you then had to get approval for, you could literally just write whatever you want to. And so I thought, oh, I might write about fashion. And that was probably that creative outlet that I was seeking. There's no creative outlet in tax, let me tell you. So, I ended up starting a blog and then I met my former business partner and we started a fashion, beauty, lifestyle website called Couturing, which is in 2011 and that's still around today. So that's been around... As you can probably tell I'm very old, but that's been around for like 10 years now.
Chris:
10 years, yeah.
Lisa:
Yeah, so I was like very much in that digital space, very early on. And then as part of that digital platform and during that social media had just started, like blooming. So I got into Instagram pretty early, I was posting on that and then I really realized, oh, this is actually fun. What I really enjoy is content creation and sharing stories and creating content for digital platforms. So then, that gave me a chance to almost get experience in the industry, without having to get a job in it.
Lisa:
So I would go to events after work, I'd get changed in my car. Then run off the fashion week and it was really cool. And I was really excited by the digital space. And so I then decided to do an internship. So I asked my manager at that time, for a couple of days off a week. And at that time I was earning pretty good money. I can't remember what title I was at the tax office, but I was on the best money of my life. And what I did was, I took an internship and I didn't get paid at all. So not only was I not making money at my current job, I wasn't getting paid. They didn't even pay for transport or lunch, so I was losing money by doing this, and I just thought, you know what?
Lisa:
If you want to get somewhere different and you want to do that career change, you've got to cut your teeth somewhere. You can't just go in there and waltz in and go. I want to be paid whatever, $70,000 a year to help out, and I was doing the worst kind of work, going through Excel spreadsheets, photocopying, getting coffees, doing all that. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to do it all and just soak it all up, meet as many people as I can and have that experience. So then I did that for a couple of months and then I went back to working full time and I thought, okay, this really is not for me. I've given it a red hot go, I've tried for seven years, but it's not the right environment for me.
Lisa:
So then I started looking for a job and then I would literally go through SEEK and I would adjust the... My only filter would be Melbourne and full-time, that's it. I wouldn't filter by industry, whatever, I would went through every single job because I thought I don't really know much about the industry. So I don't know if there's particular titles, I should be looking for or job descriptions. I went through everything and if I saw a brand that I knew and that I was passionate about, I'm like, Ooh, what job's this, could I do it? And so that's how I found a job ad for Witchery. And then I saw they were looking for a CRM person and at that time I had no idea what CRM even was. I was like, would it be in fashion? So it could be good.
Lisa:
I read the job description. I was like, yeah, I definitely am not qualified for this, but I'm a 100% going to apply for this job. Yeah, so I did this epic seven page application, where I'd Photoshop stuff, I had written down a table with all of the job descriptions and like what I want the skills and how I thought I could meet it. I was like, I want an interview. And then, so I sent my application in, I had no idea if I was even going to get anywhere. And then I got a call in for interview. I was like, oh my God, this is amazing [crosstalk 00:17:06] but then I thought, okay, now I need to go to an interview for a job that I have no idea about. So what I did was, I actually mocked up a magazine. So CRMs like to do with managing customers and loyalty.
Lisa:
So I thought, okay, if I was going to do this job, I would create a magazine. So I thought I'm just going to mock one up and bring in and show them what I was thinking. So I got into the interview and I wanted to try and take control of the interview, right from the start and not have it be, one of those, like you just get asked a million questions because then you really expose yourself to going like the person, where you clearly don't know what you're talking about, like you have no experience. So as soon as I could get the chance in the interview, I said, I could easily talk about my past and all the things I've done and-
Chris:
All the experience in CRM.
Lisa:
All my experience, but I said, but that's not really going to tell you much. What I'd rather do, is show you what I would do if I got the job. And then I whipped out this magazine and I took it through it. And it's actually funny because afterwards she goes, your application was so crazy. I just had to bring you in for an interview and I didn't know what to expect, but I just knew I had to meet you, and I wasn't sure if I was going to like you or not. And I think she could just tell I was so passionate and I'd obviously had gained some soft skills that I could transfer into this role. And so I think she could tell I was super hungry and that's something that when I look to hire people, it's like, you can't teach that hunger and that desire and that passion to learn, what you can teach is CRM or you can teach digital marketing or you can teach anything like that, but you just can't teach that intent passion to learn and always challenge yourself to be better.
Lisa:
So I feel like maybe she saw something in me and then, so I got the job and I was like, thank God, I'm out of tax, this is amazing. So yeah, so that's how I kind of transitioned out and then ended up starting the agency about five years ago. So worked with Witchery for about a year. I'm still in contact with a lot of people that I met there, they're incredible. So really appreciated just getting that chance to transition out. And then now I'm doing my own things.
Chris:
Yeah, one of the things I was excited to have this discussion with you, was to hear this career change and I want to come back and explore that in a moment. What you've just talked through, that is a fairly different or a unique path to your career now. And you run your own agency and employ people who want to work in the field and do what you are doing. What are you looking for in those people? If someone was listening to this and they wanted the more traditional path to digital marketing and content creation, what do you see comes through on resumes there, that you're looking for or experience?
Lisa:
Oh, that's a fantastic question. I can honestly say that do not apply for a career in digital marketing if you do not like digital marketing, because a lot of the... You are not going to do a course at uni that's going to teach you anything relevant about digital marketing. I can guarantee, by the time that syllabus is finalized, things have changed. So the best way to stay on top of digital marketing is by being on there as much as possible. So I always say to people who come for interviews, if you don't like digital marketing, this is a 100% not the right industry for you. You should be living and breathing social media because that's the only way you're going to see the changes in the platform. So I say to them, you need to be on LinkedIn, you need to be on TikTok, you need to be on Clubhouse, you need to be on Instagram, you need to be on Facebook.
Lisa:
And Gary Vaynerchuk, who's an amazing marketer, he says that when this new platform launched, he'd spend 10 hours on it and then post 10 pieces of content. And that means he can understand how the algorithm works, what sort of content performs best, everything like that. So I say to the people that come, if you don't like that, or if you are not interested in Google ads or whatever it is you're wanting to get hired for, do not work in the industry because you won't be successful because you would just keep falling behind and falling behind and falling behind. So that's definitely one thing I would say, I 100% look for. And then as I mentioned before, it's having that hunger to learn because you can't teach that.
Lisa:
So you need to find people who are always going to be wanting to push themselves to be better, who are going to want to come to me and say, Hey, I found this, I noticed that this is happening on TikTok. Can we sell this to our client? Because, I'm definitely not the smartest person in the room by any stretch to the imagination. So I actually love when my team come through with new ideas and fresh ideas. I'm not one of those people who goes, it's just my way or the highway. I always want them to challenge the status quo, challenge the way we're doing things. Because if we can be doing things better, then we should be, so yeah.
Chris:
No, that's yeah, that's really good. I know, I like that, just that awareness to say, I like to be challenged and just absolutely amazing. And one thing I was thinking of there is you were sort of talking through that, you think that people should spend a lot of time on social media and I can hear the parents if they're listening in on this saying, oh no, absolutely not. I presume there's a difference between being on social media and the being on social media that you are talking about.
Lisa:
That is a fantastic point, and sorry to all the parents out there who are probably like, why did you say that? I can't get my kids off the computer or phone enough, but that's actually a very good point by you. Because when I tell my team to go on social media, I say, now, you are not just a consumer of content, you're a creator of content now. So you need to look at it through the lens of content creation, not just, how am I going to be looking... Just watching dog videos. So say for example, as you're going through your feed and you stop. And you stop and watch something, what is it about that, that made you stop? Because, that's actually interesting. So if it makes you stop, it's going to probably make someone else stop. So was the way the text was written in a click bait way, was the way that the colors or the headings were on the video?
Lisa:
So start to look at it with that content creation eye and then you'll actually get better understanding of what's going to work and what's not going to work on the platform, but you're so right, there's so much content out there. And I actually listed a post recently on LinkedIn about this. There's so much content out there, that if you are not consuming with intent, you'll just waste so much time. So when you're going on social, don't just go, I'm just going to sit on here for five hours and watch dog videos on TikTok. Think about, okay, so I'm going to go on there, have a look what's happening in the industry, look at what competitors are doing, look at what competitors of our clients are doing. Have a look at, are they different trends? I'm going to post some content, see how the reach goes. So have some intention behind when you go on social. Otherwise, it's a trap. We all know that, you can spend hours and hours and hours on social media and achieve absolutely nothing. So you have to really have that intention when you're going online and consuming content.
Chris:
And I know for me personally, that intention is always captured in reflection and I like taking notes, I like reflecting on things and thinking about it. And for me, if I was to undergo something like that, that's what I would have to do to sort of have that difference between I'm just burning four hours on Facebook and I'm learning about content marketing here.
Lisa:
Yeah, exactly right, and look, we've all been there. I've wasted hours on TikTok, Instagram, Clubhouse, just it's a lot.
Chris:
It certainly is, I say that we parked a bit about the career change and the bit I'm really keen to explore there is that you, as you said, you went through school and you had a little bit of a vague idea that you wanted to be in a creative field. You got a little bit pressured into studying a more traditional thing. You did five years at uni. I think you said six years working in that field, before you ultimately ended up back in a creative field, where you wanted to set out at the start. If you were to, sort of, talk directly to and hopefully you are to some students who are at that point in their lives where they're sitting there going, okay, my ENTER score or my ATAR score is the only thing that matters, so that I can get into my chosen university course, which will set up my career for life. What do you think when you hear that?
Lisa:
I'm scared of parents, look, I definitely don't want to say it doesn't matter. That's not true, but it is not the end of the world. So I think work as absolutely hard as you possibly can to give yourself options. And that's really kind of what this score does. And I look back now and I remember putting so much pressure on myself and thinking, oh my God, it's going to be the total end of the world if I don't get a high score or if I don't hit X, Y, Z targets and it's a lot of pressure I think, as someone at school, because you almost don't have that life experience to see there's so many more options out there. And if you don't get the score that you want to, you at least want to know you gave it your best shot.
Lisa:
So I would definitely say work hard, work as hard as you possibly can because you don't want to look back and regret anything, but if you don't get the score that you want and you know where you want to go, there's always going to be a way to get that, it might be a little bit longer, the road might be a little bit more curved than you were expecting, but you can get there, for sure. So, say for example, you might just have to study a different degree first and then get good scores and that, and then move into the industry that you want to do. But, I think putting things into perspective, we're so tough on ourselves and it's especially when you are growing up and you're a teenager, there's so many pressures. And I look back now and I just think I did not... You just don't have the confidence and self belief in yourself that you do when you're in your thirties and forties, I think it's easy to put intense and incredible pressure on ourselves, especially with social media.
Lisa:
God, I just think if I could change something about social, it'd be great. If the kids weren't necessarily exposed to so much of it from such a young age, because it really brings up that ability to compare yourself to other people. And a lot of the time on social, there is really that people just post highlights and you don't see them when they're having a bad day because they don't want to post that. But we're all human beings at the end of the day, we all have amazing days, we all have down days. And just because people aren't sharing them, doesn't mean they don't have them as well. Yeah, in a long-winded way, I would say yes, try your absolute best but just know that if there's something that you want to achieve in life, there's more than one way to get there.
Chris:
And that's also whimsical to me that you spend 40 years in a career working like your working life is 40 years long. And at the age of 17, you're expected to know what you want to spend the next 40 years doing it, unreasonable to put that pressure on yourself and to sort of accept that, hey, this is what I want to do now and this is what I'm going to study now. But if that changes in the future, it changes in the future, and I'm open to that.
Lisa:
Yes, that's actually a fantastic point because people think, okay, this is it, I must decide what I'm going to do now for the rest of my life. And I'm living proof that seven years and I still had no idea what I was doing, still have no idea what I'm doing most of the time now, but I've found something that I love. So it's never too late and you've got time. It's not like it's the 100 metres sprint and you've got to get there in the quickest amount of time, that's it. Think of it more as a marathon and you actually have time to change direction along the way. And like you said, you don't have to know from the age of 10 or 17 or whatever it is, what you want to do with the rest of your life.
Lisa:
Because you might try something and then not like it, and then you try something else and then you try something else. And I think that's definitely something I can say about the generation below me. They're more driven by happiness, than I would say my generation or from my parents' generation. I've looked at my parents' generation thing, everyone stayed in the same job, their whole lives. And that loyalty was really important to them, but happiness wasn't as important. Whereas my generation, the generation below me is now going, I want to be happy. So if I'm not happy, I'm going to move jobs. And they have that, I guess, courage in themselves to do that, which I think is fantastic.
Chris:
And I think we're very fortunate that people find happiness in different things. So, we don't need [crosstalk 00:29:05] to worry about there not being lawyers to pick up our tax fraud or anything like that in the future. There will be someone that loves doing that.
Lisa:
Who are these people?
Chris:
I haven't found one yet, but I hope to integrate [crosstalk 00:29:18] I'm sure they'll be there. Finish up, as I always do with three quick questions, so just a nice short, sharp answer to these, but if you look back now, anything you would do differently?
Lisa:
No, so I feel like yeah, I did... Everything happened for a reason. I got to meet amazing people along the way. I got to learn amazing things and all of them have got me to where I am today, so maybe wish I'd transition out sooner. I think it probably just gave me the time to mature a little bit more, still working on that maturing thing, but no.
Chris:
Very good, What's next for you?
Lisa:
Ooh, that's a great question, I love this question because I never have an answer for it because I don't like knowing what's coming next for me. And I actually don't like setting goals for myself either because I feel that I then almost get pigeonholed, not pigeonholed, but I get really focused and I go, okay, this is what I'm saying, I want to achieve. I might shut myself off to lots of crazy opportunities. So I'll give you an example, like last year I was asked to run for deputy Lord mayor of Melbourne, and that was not on my goal list. [crosstalk 00:30:25] do that right now, but it was something that I think, because I'm just so open and I'm out there just posting on social and talking about things I'm passionate about, opportunities just tend to come.
Chris:
Absolutely, so if I reflect on that, what's next for you is you don't know, but it's not very [inaudible 00:30:42] know. Very good, and then the last question is one piece of advice you would pass on.
Lisa:
Do what makes you happy, I know it sounds really cliched and I just think happiness is just... It's so incredible because I'm earning less than I was, when I was working in tax, much, much less, but I'm happier than I've ever been. So, that age old adage of 'money can't buy your happiness' is so true. So if you find something that you love and you're lucky enough to be surrounded in working with people that you love, then you'll never have to work a day in your life. I feel like I'm just full of cliche [inaudible 00:31:19], but it's honestly, so true.
Chris:
Well, there it is, there was my chat with Lisa. I hope you got as much out of that as I did. I really, really enjoyed the honesty that she brought to that conversation. And mostly, I just love to hear someone who finds so much happiness and joy in what they do. And I think it's a really powerful lesson for everyone listening to this, to always use that as your guiding principles. Your careers are long and it needs to be embedded in something that you love doing.
Chris:
It's something that you enjoy getting out of bed for everyday. Sometimes there are trade offs when you pursue that, like Lisa discuss, she gave up a higher salary to go and chase something that she loved. But I think we can all agree and we can hear in her voice the importance of that happiness and just how much joy she has in what she does and how she shares that, so authentically with us. So I'd like to take this opportunity to once again, thank Lisa for her time. Her lessons have been invaluable and I hope that you all got something out of it. I'm really looking forward to our next discussion and hope you can join us for it. Thank you again for listening, this is Careers Night, the podcast where we ask our guests, what's your job and how did you get there?