The Gap Between Western Medicine and Ancient Wisdom with Janene Borandi, PhD, Acupuncturist EP7

Do you ever feel like you're stuck in a cycle of stress and anxiety, despite being told to just take a pill and power through it?

The pain of feeling overwhelmed and burned out is all too real when traditional solutions fall short. But what if there's a holistic approach that can bring balance and resilience back into your life?

Find out how acupuncture could be the missing piece in your journey to well-being as we are joined by Janene Borandi, a knowledgeable acupuncturist with a PhD. Feeling burnt out and unfulfilled, she knew something had to change. Janene shares with us how she left her “cushy” government job that left her feeling empty to pursue a career that filled her cup.

With a career in holistic healthcare, she has a desire to address stress and anxiety through alternative approaches and change the way medicine is practiced. Things need to be looked at from a holistic perspective, not a textbook perspective. And that starts with understanding who you are an what you want in your life.

In this unhinged conversation we dig into the significance of mental health in holistic healing and offers strategies for avoiding burnout, particularly relevant for female entrepreneurs seeking a balanced approach to well-being.

Let’s embrace the human experience and join in advocating for Holistic Medicine!

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Transcript

 I'm not going to be  shackled down with pharmaceuticals because like the interesting juxtaposition of it was.  I had family members and friends that were, like, kind of doing the whole, like, opioid downward spiral. And I had a front row seat to it, and I just was like, Oh my God, I'm next. 

I couldn't do it anymore. Like, I think that there are some people that are just like, yeah, great. I'm going to do the work. And I had to not, I had to do something else.

And I looked up acupuncture. 

 it's important to talk to people about their feelings. , because your feelings basically  affect this part of your brain, the limbic system, and then the limbic system drives your biochemistry. And if we think that like, oh, it's just stress, I can power through my stress. It's like, well, maybe, but that, that alchemy that's affecting your whole biochemistry is eventually going to affect your health. 

So maybe we, maybe we do something about the stress for sure. And sadness is like a byproduct. It's the, it's the meat of the scenario that you're remembering. 

 





Welcome to the Samantha Parker show, Janine. Welcome to the couch. Thanks. I know. I'm glad you're, I'm glad you're here on the couch.

 All right. So Janine, you're an acupuncturist. You have a PhD and you are smart as hell. So welcome to my office and welcome to the podcast.

Thanks. Yeah. How do you, yeah. How do you introduce yourself? As Janine, like there's this whole thing about being, like having a medical degree or a PhD or whatever doctorate you have. And I'm, I'm just Janine. Just Janine. Yeah. See, cause if I had a doctorate, I would insist that people called me Dr.

Samantha.  Good, good. There's definitely like when I was teaching at the med school, there's this,  expectation,  that, okay, if you have your doctorate of some kind, when you go into a, a higher education environment, you are expected to call one another doctor. When you're around other doctors and, um, but, but when you're around just your colleagues, you can say, oh, Jeff, oh, Ann, oh, you know, you're on a first name basis, but when you're in front of students, it's doctor because there's like a prestige to uphold.

Yeah. And, I was like, okay, well, it's good to get the lay of the land in that regard. But,  I, I would say that, you know, a very small percentage of my patients will call me Dr. Burandy, but the majority of them are really like, I think they get a lot more, , familiarity just by calling me Janine, which is what I prefer.

Yeah. Janine. All right. Well, welcome. Thanks. So how long did it take you to get your PhD?  Combined,  four years that I, I did a three year master's degree program in acupuncture and East Asian medicine. And then  after about, I would say six years of being in practice as an acupuncturist, I chose to, , go back for the doctorate, which was another year.

Oh, well, that's not bad. Okay. But you did a master's program. So then you probably already had a four year degree. Right? Okay. Okay.  Yes, I actually had two undergrad, degrees. One was in mass communications.  My focus was public relations and then the second was in information systems. So I was a computer programmer and project manager for the government for 15 years.

Okay. So that's like 13 years of schooling, right? If I math that math.  Four year degree, which actually took me like five. Cause it  doesn't get through the under the first undergrad in four years. No, I did mine in three. Oh, good. Good for you. Yep. Because the government was paying for it. Nice.   But yeah, so five years and then another two years for my it stuff.

And then another three years.  Let's say, yeah, that's a lot of years. You haven't added this up. You don't  know, this is the first time I'm like, how many years did you go to school?  Yeah, maybe I'm,  yeah, I could do the math real quick. It's okay. I was trying to math, but I mathed wrong. Okay. So what made you want to leave your government job?

Okay. So you had a government job. And we could use the word cushy probably, right? Totally. Yeah.  As far as like paper is concerned, you know, you're like, Oh, you have benefits, health insurance. Did you have a 401k? Oh, totally. Yeah. Which I don't, I don't understand the appeal of all these things sometimes, but, , what made you want to leave that and be like, I'm going to get a PhD in acupuncture.

 Very good question. I'm so glad you asked. I was probably mid career in my I. T. gig, and I was, , facilitating all of these meetings with different project managers and different, like,  political appointees, and, you know, we were trying to substantiate  the use of,  the taxpayer dollars into our federal I.

T. spending.  on different, um, like really high visibility, high risk programs for the social security administration. And this has everything to do with like Medicare and disability benefits,  social security payouts, et cetera.  And I was managing these meetings and I got really like just so much anxiety that it literally choked me out.

And it got to a point where I was like, man, I'm kind of having a hard time So I,  And I was like, hey, I really need to take the rest of the day because this is bad. Like, I have to go see a doctor right now. And he was like, absolutely. You know, do what you need to do. So I went to my doctor and I was like, I don't know what's going on.

This is literally choking me out. And he said, here's a prescription for Xanax. If one doesn't work, take two. Oh, okay. So I was like, okay, so I took one and before I knew it, I had two down the hatch, I was like finally feeling like I wasn't choking and,  it only took a few days for me to kind of feel like I cannot do this for the rest of my life.

Like I'm not going to be  shackled down with pharmaceuticals because like the interesting juxtaposition of it was.  I had family members and friends that were, like, kind of doing the whole, like, opioid downward spiral. And I had a front row seat to it, and I just was like, Oh my God, I'm next. And I looked up acupuncture.

And at the time, I thought, like, I can do placebo. I can do mind over matter stuff. As long as I have something, I know that I can get my mind around, like, Okay, this, like, I don't need these pills. So I started seeing an acupuncturist. And,   Sure enough, before I knew it, I was off the meds. But, I was also starting to have, like, weird, otherworldly type experiences.

Like, when she puts the needle in my left  ankle, why am I feeling it in my right wrist? And why am I having, like, these, like, levitating type experiences and different dreams?  And they all started like formulating this thing that in all my years of education, and I did go to, I was in a nursing school for a portion of that time, so I had all of my physiology and my anatomy, I had all of the, like, sciences done from my nursing degree and then I pivoted,  but I, I couldn't find anything in my mind that made sense, that for what I was feeling physiologically.

So I just looked at the picture as a whole and was like, man, I don't, I don't want to be on the side of medicine that is, that is basically giving disability determinations like these, these, this system is designed to tell people like you're disabled, here's money, don't work. And I just, based on my own experience was like, no, I'm going to be.

I'm going to do a different, I'm going to be a different change in healthcare in the world. Yeah. So, okay. So you kind of decided to basically challenge the medical system. Yeah. You know, what's wild to me though, if we just backtrack for a second is you're like, I am not doing well, you know, my things aren't going well.

And they're like, here's a pill, which I do think that there is a really great, amazing place for Western medicine and you know, all the things we've developed, but just a pill to make you feel calm instead of being like, why do you feel like that? Let's change some things up. That's the answer, right? It's just keep this government job and take these pills.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I did have people like when I made the decision, I mean, it was a long process to make that decision. I, there were years. In that decision making time that I was like, man, do I do this? I'm so crazy. Like six figure job. Like people are just like, Janine, you know, I don't know what change you think you're going to make.

They're just going to hire somebody to do your job. Why not just stay with it? And I just couldn't, of course, they're going to hire someone to do your job. Right. And I couldn't, I couldn't do it anymore. Like, I think that there are some people that are just like, yeah, great. I'm going to do the work. And I had to not, I had to do something else.

 Especially the nature of the job was,  you know, everybody knows that the government is full of like inefficiencies and I was basically being paid to, to do that and be a part of the inefficiencies and kind of, I don't want to say cook the books, but like, Hey, that's kind of what happens inside. Yeah.

And, no, I wanted to do something where I could help people like actually feel better  So I think there's a lot of pivotal moments in people's lives where they're like, I want to do something that matters, but sometimes it feels like so unrealistic when you were like, I'm going to go get my PhD. Like, what did that look like financially?

Did you stay working while you got your PhD and your master's? Okay. Yeah. I went part time with social security. I had some great bosses too, like, not everybody got that luxury. And I think that they looked at me and were like, Okay, like, we're gonna let you do this, but just know you can't come back.

It's not like you can just come back to full time. I was like, yeah, you know, the objective is for me to leave one day. And so I think  it was five years. So I went part time in 2011, went full time to acupuncture school. I I did all my clinicals while I was there and just kind of walked between worlds the whole time.

And, when I graduated, I was in for about another year and a half, because the other thing I was really trying to do was transition from my federal position with social security as an it project manager to an acupuncturist position with the Fort Belvoir community hospital, which  a lot of federal agencies are now hiring acupuncturists. so the VA medical centers, the military hospitals, the NIH, like there are a lot of people doing research on acupuncture. And that was actually my first gig.

Out of acupuncture school as I worked at the VA Medical Center in Washington, D. C. Doing acupuncture on Gulf War veterans. Oh. For the different illnesses and injuries that they came back home with. Okay, well that's cool. Totally. It was in the  War Related Illness and Injury Study Center in Washington, D.

C. And the name of the study that I worked on was the Gulf War Veterans Illness and Injury Study.  Really cool. Yeah. And it's published. It's out there.  You won't find my name because I was just like a,  I was just a technician so to speak. But,  I got to do like the, you know, patients would come in.

How are you feeling before do the needles, let you cook for a little while. How are you feeling after? And then all of that data was. It's kind of, you know, compiled into this larger study. How do we help these people heal? Because we cannot keep giving them medicine. And so, if large federal organizations are spending money on this research, then God, you know, it must be doing something. 

It's kind of cool because, you know, I think right now online, the trend is to be like, Oh, America sucks or whatever. And they don't, they're not, they're not doing this. They're not doing that. But I actually think they are doing a lot of things like to hear that. I'm like, Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. Like under the radar they are. And just because I guess it's not. It's not filled with drama. It doesn't really get, you know, FaceTime on the news or anything, but there are a lot of good initiatives going on.  I do think people care and it, God, what we know in medicine, we have like first world medicine and like third world delivery here.

It seems, I think, basically with, the curriculum in medical school and how far behind that is and how much,  how much access we have anymore with health insurance companies and the cost of insurance. Yes. So I look at the healthcare here, this is my view on it and I'm not saying it's the correct view, but I look at it as if, if I need a lifesaving intervention, right?

So maybe I'm bleeding out or, you know, I just got hit by a car, like, I don't know. Okay. I just drowned in a pond. Don't go to your acupuncturist.  Yeah. I'm going to go into the ER and I'm going to get top level care. You know, it'll probably most likely save my life. I mean, I dunno, I'm not God. I don't know what my time is, but,  but if I want mental healthcare and this is again, just my opinion, because I do think, you know, there's a lot to, it's just so complex and everyone's different.

So this is just like Samantha Parker's version. If I want mental healthcare or the way I'm feeling in my body, anything to do with,  Even weight gain or stress, anything like that. I don't have a doctor,  I don't have a doctor that I go see. Yeah. I have, you know, people like you, I go see you.

I get acupuncture. I go get massages. I work with shamans. I go to a therapist. Probably have a health coach. I do have a health coach. I do. Yep. I do have a dietitian diet. I think she's a diet. Yeah, she is a registered nutritionist. Yeah, like those are, that's the support I get. And again, I mean, there's not insurance for it, but.

Yeah. I figured it out. Yeah, chronic disease is one of those things that I think is, mysterious to a lot of us and in medicine. And for sure, like I, I have friends who are graduating from medical school and  the love and the care that these kids, most of them have in their hearts about what they want to do in medicine to make it better is, you know, It's,  it's honest, it's authentic.

And then they go through the system and then they come out into a medical system that has a standard of care that if they deviate from that could be a financial risk to the organization they work for. And so maybe their hands are tied. And sometimes I think that hand tying is also keeping people safe because think there's been some crazy motherfucking doctors  who have done the craziest things.

You know, but there's also crazy neighbors and there's, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's hard. It's like a catch 22. Yeah. It's like, who do you, it's, it's funny. I think about this all the time. Cause now that I've got the perspective of working inside of the government and now I'm a healthcare practitioner and I know what it's like to work with insurance companies and I'm a clinician because I work with  and I know people who are graduating medical school and going into Modern medical care scenarios.

And it's like, I just imagine this circle where we're all pointing the finger at each other. You know doctors are pointing at health insurance and patients are pointing at doctors and doctors are pointing at you know What like  there is no one source that's responsible for all of the ills within the system Mm hmm.

 I don't even know where to find the answer. Well, and then you have you know patients abusing the system , yeah. So, okay. Let's switch gears though. Okay. And while that is a rabbit hole and I love, I love, I love a good rabbit hole. Okay.  Okay. So let's talk about burnout as a female business owner.

So essentially you are an acupuncturist, so you are a business owner. Yes. And I would say that you're successful. It de it depends on how you define success. Everyone has a different definition. Totally. But I would say you're very successful. Yeah. At what you do. I am.  Thank you. Have you ever  , you're like, you know, I have 

Have you ever kind of hit burnout as a female business owner?  Yes. Like, what does that feel like to you?   It feels , a little bit of a.  Identity crisis. Because I love what I do. And I know I'm good at it. And there's no way that I would want to go away from what I do. , especially now that I found it.

Because I spent so many years not knowing what I really wanted to do. Even, even though I had my six figure job. And I was like, yes, I have arrived. I was also like,  My god, this isn't it. So now that I've found it and I'm like, yes, this is it and I love it And it's so rewarding it also gets really heavy sometimes and It what that looks like is  Man, when can I retire?

You know, like how can I where's my succession plan? And that's one of the things that I'm actually doing right now because I know it takes a long time to build a succession plan  So I'm, I'm looking for, you know, different people  to become acupuncturists and maybe, you know, take over the patient load in my business one day.

And,  so that's what it looks like as a 46 year old. Yeah. Business owner is like, Oh man, how do I keep this beautiful thing that I've created? How do I keep it  working and chugging out good work in the world? The other thing that it looks like is, um, in October of every year, I plan my weeks off in the following year.

Okay. I'm also booking my. My clients into the next year. Okay.  My regulars that, you know, they have their, yes, I need you to come in every three weeks, every month, every week. So I do a lot of planning on that end to make sure that,  only so many weeks go by before I get a week off. Yeah.  That's smart.

Thanks. Yeah. Cause the next thing you know, you sneeze and it's like March, it's April. Yeah. Yeah. I had a stint of time last, last year that I think I was working for a solid, like, three or four months without a break and it was just not sustainable and I think about that from the job that I had before where I was sitting behind a desk and I was clacking away at emails all day  and maybe that was more sustainable but when you're seeing people every day and they're coming in and they're telling you the things that are Deepest in their hearts and souls and you know, yeah, the traumas they've been through  You get as a practitioner you get really good at holding space for that  and it it is hard.

Yeah, it's  Sad what people have gone through and what they persist through and continue to show up and be fucking amazing every day  I think I was telling someone, I went to see you, I can't remember who I was talking to though. Probably my husband. Maybe. I don't know. Anyways, it's irrelevant. I always have all these side thoughts that go out of my head. 

It's like a beautiful mess in here. But,  I was saying that I went out and saw you, so that we could film videos for your social media content. And, but I filled out that questionnaire, like the hospital question or not hospital medical. Patient intake. Yeah. Yeah. And I just was like, honestly typing stuff.

And then you were like, I see here that you put, and I was like, Oh, me,  I was like just, you know, filling it out. Like, Oh yes, no, yes, no, yes. Oh yes, I do have the. Yeah. And then you were like asking me about it and I was like, Oh,  I know. I was like, I don't know that this is necessarily appropriate for social media content.

, so you're gonna have to edit this part out, but here we go.  Yeah. , no, I mean, I talk about this stuff online, but you're like, you feel sad and I'm like all the time.  And I'm like, but I'm just, , I, so I see what you're saying there where you're holding space because in that moment, like you're working on my body and you're doing these things and I just wanted to just like tell you, I think is a way of  like, so you're working on the body.

Right. And then to me, talking is a way to like release it. It's energy. Yeah. So I'm like, if I could chalk it out and I can get it out, all of a sudden I just feel better. Yeah. Yeah. It, um, it always sets up shop. I, I noticed that you're like, You've got your hand right here. So I always do that. And you always say that.

And I'm like, I know it's my safe space. It's a really good indicator though, of where people are holding or feeling their, their emotion. You know, some people will, you know, constantly do this when they're talking or, , there's always a good line of inquiry to be like, Hey, well, where do you feel your stress the most?

Like, where do you feel it now that you're talking about it? Oh, I feel it in my throat or, you know, people feel their. Stuff in different places. And that's definitely a good line of inquiry for us as practitioners. Cause we're like, okay, that's one of the places we need to work on because you hold your stress there.

 But yeah, it's, , it's important to talk to people about their feelings. , because your feelings basically  affect this part of your brain, the limbic system, and then the limbic system drives your biochemistry. And if we think that like, oh, it's just stress, I can power through my stress. It's like, well, maybe, but that, that alchemy that's affecting your whole biochemistry is eventually going to affect your health. 

So maybe we, maybe we do something about the stress for sure. And sadness is like a byproduct. It's the, it's the meat of the scenario that you're remembering. So be witnessed in that, like be brave enough to bring that out to somebody and be like, yeah,  this is the the reality that I'm Living in the wake of and I need somebody to see that and witness me in it  So that I can heal.

Yeah. , I think you do a beautiful job and that's why I'm like, I bet you definitely have to be like, I need these weeks for me to like fill yourself back up. Yeah, definitely. Okay. So my next question that I wrote down for us, like seeing my nifty little card, isn't it cute? I do love it. I love all your squigglies.

I'm like, man, I need to like brand myself that way somehow. So when I tell people about my brand or when I'm doing things in business, I'm like, I like chaos. I like the clutter of it. Yeah.  And a lot of people like a clean modern brand and I'm like, I call it chaos. Yeah. I'm like, I want messy. I want, I just love it.

That's the stuff I love to look at. Well everything you do is really eye catching. Like I love, like if something of yours pops up, I'm like, Oh, there's the checkers. Yeah. And I've like, I've gotten used to associating you with the checkers somehow. I like it. I like it. I like it a lot.  Okay. So my other question for you was, how do you tell if things are working for you?

 Yeah. Cause I know right now you're kind of sitting on a decision. You're like, should I do this? Should I do that? Yeah. And that's just a question I have a lot, like even this weekend I was sitting with myself and I'm like,  I was like, well, if I didn't do all of this  and then I was like, okay,  I love this question.

I have to have a reality check. I'm so excited to answer, but I thought, why don't I explore all the possibilities? What if I just didn't do any of this? You know, like, how do you tell if it's, I'm going to use air quotes here, working. Okay. Yeah. It's a good one. , so I,  I do this thing. I call it the shotgun approach.

Where I love to just like put things out there and I will,  , I will create relationships with different organizations and I'll do some stuff with social media and I'll do online course building stuff. And of course I've got my bread and butter, right? I've got my practice and it takes care of me in every single way.

 And then I'll go out and I'll say, Hey, I want to do this different initiative. And I'll put a bunch of different threads out there and I'll watch, I'll nurture them obviously, but then some of them will just slowly start to shut down. And I'm like, okay, well I'm either going to put that on the back burner for now or I'll just completely sever the tie.

 And When I get really close to something and I keep nurturing it and it, and it's seemed like it's going somewhere. If there are things that come out of the woodwork that, , feel like they are not of the utmost integrity, I will, I'll scale back and you know, I might not completely kill the thread, but I will definitely kind of put myself in a position where I'm like, wow, that doesn't feel,  that doesn't feel positive or it feels like there might be some level of risk.

 To it that I don't, like, I'm not going to be able to nurture that anymore because it, it feels like it's not,  honest and it, it's going to take advantage of someone in the long run. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'd like to give you an example without like, Oh, there's so much marketing stuff. I call it fantasy marketing and it is like my public enemy.

Number one. They're like on my bulletin board. I'm like, I see you. Yeah. Fantasy marketing. I know what you're talking about because I watch people do it a lot and manipulate people into, yeah. And you know, you look at them and some of these people have a million followers, you know, and you're like, what the, yeah, I've wondered that.

Like I get things like that all the time from different things. They're like, are you ready for promotion? And I'm like, I don't know, this doesn't feel right. Yeah. And even  You know, people will be like, I figured out the key to success and I can teach you the key to success. And so people, you know, they showcase off this really great life and everything's amazing.

And, you know, of course they might still be authentic and show like bad parts, but so many people go chasing it. And the issue is, is we don't stop. And we don't be like, is that actually something I fucking want? Do I even want what that person has? You know, they're flashing off their coach bags or their vacation or their fancy car.

And they're like, I rise apartment in Miami. I'm like, I don't want to live in Miami.  I'm like, I like my Jeep. It's a 2013 and it's paid for and  I love it. Exactly. Exactly. And that, that's definitely like when I like to call it, when things come out of the ether and they start showing me the real, I am usually like, I don't want to be affiliated with that because it doesn't, at the end of the day, I can see this not working out well. 

And I, I want whatever work I'm putting into the world to have the utmost integrity and for people to be able to walk away from any scenario with me saying, wow, that was, Phenomenal. That was really helpful. That  filled me in every single way. And I was safe there. Okay. That's actually, look, I wrote this down here, staying safe.

So do you ever feel like sometimes though, we're tempted to stay safe because we want to just keep playing small and it's comfortable to our nervous system. Like I said, I wrote it down. I love it. How wonderful a segue.  Yeah, absolutely. And I also feel like, look at where you are.  Look where you are right now.

You're not, you didn't play it safe. , you went big. And so there's, there's a, like you have to assess whether it's something that you even need to do. Like this concept of enough. I have enough. Oh my God, I have abundance. There's a part of me that feels like I want more., but it,  I have the ability to be in a place where,  I only want more if it means that it's going to serve other people really, really well.

Yeah. Cause I don't need more.  Oh, I like that. See, you know, I was just thinking if I won the lotto today, I wouldn't go out and buy a new car. I need to get a new heater core for my Jeep. Did you know they're like 2, 800 and I looked at the technician and I was like, I think I'll just wear an extra sweater for me. 

I was like, I didn't want to, like, that just seemed dumb, you know? But that's, that's the thing is like, do I need more? I, I wouldn't go buy a new car. I don't even, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Cause I mean, bigger, more expensive things only give you bigger, more expensive problems.  

So I guess like, how do you recognize the feeling of this? Right. Is it the feeling of, Do I need more like a need, need, need for the maternal, maternal, material, material world. Look at that Freudian, the maternal. Let's dive into that wormhole  more and more and more like to fill the material void versus like, I just know I meant for more and you have this push or this calling like you did with go be an acupuncture.

Yeah. That wasn't just a coincidence. You know, that was obviously like someone would. On the other side of stirring the pot and I was like, this is your purpose, Janine. Yeah, totally. And as soon as I started getting information in the mail about different programs, you're like, okay, I was like, oh, it's on.

Like I am not, there's no way I am not going to do this. Yeah. Okay.  I think that, gosh, especially as I get, as I've gotten older, the point at which it,  I rarely have those moments anymore because I'm set and what I'm doing is so important to. You feel like you're in alignment. Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I rarely have those moments anymore where I'm like, yes, I'm going to do this full bore a hundred percent. There's no turning back and I'm just going to push until I get there because I, because I can't, I can't not do what I'm doing. So I have to have the energy for that. And so it's, is it playing safe  or is it being really, thoughtful and mindful about my resource myself as a resource?

Yes. So how do you. How do you kind of tell the difference? How do you navigate that? I look for a lot of different signs, like data points that come out and data, of course you do. So sometimes it's an email, sometimes it's,  what's going on with other people, okay. So you're looking for signs.

Yep. Totally. I was like data points. She's over here making signs. Spreadsheets. That's where I was going.  Well, dude, when you're talking about Facebook ads, I am totally looking at spreadsheets and data points. Okay. , I only have so much ad spend. I will put into Facebook anymore. But in terms of like in initiatives in my life, what am I going to put my energy into?

What am I going to? You know, help to bring to light for others.  I get to a point seriously and I'm not like a, , doctrine specific spiritual person,  but I have a really healthy regard for  the space in the space between and like my team, my protective spiritual tribe out there. And I will just kind of like, once I get to a point, I'm like, okay, look. 

If this is going to go anywhere, you guys are really going to have to help me out with it. Yes. And that is definitely what I do every day that I walk into the treatment space. I'm like, Hey, I know that it's not just me here. Putting needles in. I'm kind of a technician and you know, whatever, whatever,  spiritual grace is out there that has anything to do with helping someone heal in this space.

Please come forward and, and do that. Okay. So I know I've got it. Okay. This is when you're like. Okay. Is this playing safe or is this something I should go for? Right. Or is this just like a thought, like I saw a shiny video and I'm like, Ooh, I could do that. You know?   You basically, it sounds like to me you're just like kind of surrendering and you're like, I'll just surrender and whatever happens happens.

And then you like get the postcard in the mail for acupuncture school or you'll like see any, and you're like, Oh, okay. Like, you're just surrendering to the flow of it. Yeah, that's a great way to say it. Yeah, you said it really well. I know I was beating around the bush with that question. But I,  I don't know, I don't know that it necessarily feels safe or unsafe.

It's just gonna happen or it's not. And I know that I'm tenacious enough to be like, okay, this looks like it's going and we're going to go. Yeah. And I just trust that I'm going to have the resources both physiologically and financially to make it happen. And if I don't like, Hey guys, better come from somewhere or it ain't happening.

Yeah. Yeah.  The last, the last two weeks, the last two weeks, I've even gotten messages from people I know and they're like, are you doing okay mentally? Like, cause you're getting beat down right now. And I'm like, no, I'm not, but I do know, like, I do know that everything is happening for me. Yeah. Right. And so sometimes to get to where I'm being guided, I'm not going to surrendering.

So I'm being like shoved,  but I do know that's all happening for me, but sometimes like  Those things aren't super fun, you know? Yeah. And everyone wants to walk around being like, oh high vibe, everyone's happy. And I'm like, good fucking night, dude. Yeah. You know, I go through huge periods of time where that's the case, but there are moments where I'm like, are you kidding me? 

Yeah. Yeah, the, I've, , listened to a couple of the podcasts now and I, the thing that I really love. Of this podcast? Yeah. The Samantha Parker show? The Samantha Parker show. Featuring Samantha Parker? Yes.  The thing I love is how honest you are about where you are in the world, where you are with your life circumstances, where you've been and how much it's, it sucks and like you definitely keep it real.

Well it just kind of pisses me off that, you know, we look around and everyone's like,  Just like happy, happy, pain on the smile. Everything's fine. And so for a while, like when I was going through a massive, the first depressive episode I ever went through, I was like, there's something insanely wrong with me.

Like I just don't deserve to be here because there's something so wrong with me. And then I realized that there's all these other people out there. You know, the more I opened up, I was brave and vulnerable. There was all these other people that were going through like, Things and felt the same way I did.

And I was like, Oh, there's nothing wrong with me. Yeah. You know, it's part of the human experience and I'm experiencing what I don't like. And, you know, I'm flowing through it and sometimes life is like, and I think that's okay, you know, and that's the thing. So I've always really wanted to share that, like.

This is real life and I know I will have, you know, I never want to be like negative about it or be like, blah, blah, blah. Life sucks being human. Stupid. Cause it's not, it's really cool. But I think we have to be honest with ourselves that not every day we get up and there's a rainbow outside the window.

Yeah, totally. And I think there are a lot of people right now that are lonely and.  and confused and they don't know what to do with their emotions. And,  there are a lot of different systems in place that have, like,  kept us detached from one another. It's almost, I mean, gosh, I think about, like, have you ever read the book, The Body Keeps the Score? 

Oh, I feel like I have, or I know of it. , Bessel VanDerKolk, he's big in the somatic, , in somatic body work and somatic healing. And,  he's done so much research for so long about, , traumatic. Events in childhood and, and how that kind of manifests into the human and, and not only that, but like what it's done throughout the century.

Like, and we're coming out of a very war, torn, hungry, scared, fight or flight century. So we have generations of people now who've had, who have this built into your nervous system. Yeah. And, , not only in your, in your brain, Like  precognitive experience of being in the womb with your mother, but,  like epigenetics and how that has informed, I guess what I know what that word means.

Yeah, it's crazy. It's like this stuff was written into our DNA a long, long time ago, and we're finally getting to a point in our. Evolution where we're like, Oh, you mean the coast is clear. It's safe. Everybody, like I get to have an opinion. I get to go out there and actually do whatever I want to do. This is an experience that our generations have that previous generations haven't.

And so they're looking at us like, what do you mean you have a feeling?  We weren't allowed to have feelings because we were afraid that, you know, Russia was going to drop a bomb on us. Yeah. You know, like, there was a lot of stuff going on in the last century. And,  so this, this, these generations that are alive right now are kind of in this place where, where like, yeah, you're allowed to have your feelings and your opinions and your needs and go ahead and shake it out.

Like, come on. But, but like, we're so disconnected. Yeah.  We're so incredibly disconnected from one another as humans. And COVID was like,  man, COVID really did a number in separating people and telling everybody like, go to your corners. It's not safe to come out. And so, yeah, but you know what I think is happening now?

So we're in the four year cycle, right? , is I've noticed even just with myself,  I'm like, Oh, Why have I been at home? What have I been doing? What have I been hiding from? I was like, I miss people. And even if, you know, maybe they'll say something mean, or maybe they'll do, you know, I'm like, it's still going to be okay.

I'm like, I miss people. I think I want to venture back out. Yeah. And I noticed people are really starting to crave each other. I do too. Yeah. And I've, I've watched at least in the online course building space. I'm kind of like, man, I think, yeah, I don't want to sit at home and  watch.  An online course. I want to go out and I want to play.

I want to, , go dancing again and I want to maybe go to a karaoke bar. I want to stay up late. Yeah.  I want to go out and see people and go to a karaoke bar. That was awfully frisky of you. Oh, I love to sing. You do? I did so much theater when I was back in Baltimore. Yep. Okay. I was in the Rocky Horror Show.

I'm filing this in my file, my Janine file cabinet. Yeah. I was the, the lead.  Gosh, he was a transvestite alien. 

Her name was Magenta. Oh, I had so much fun. What a rock and roll show. I really let it wail. It was so great. I'd love to get back out and sing again. Right? Yeah. I think we're craving like the things we love and just being, let's see, this is what I love about the human experience is you could feel like you're rotting one day and then you can walk outside and be like, that was insane.

Like, I love experiencing this planet, even the highs and the lows. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's wild to imagine, like, oh my gosh, where do I go when I leave my, my skin suit, you know, my skin suit.  I'll tell you some of my crazy stories.  And I think the reason I'm, I am really guarded in my heart. I think it got really hurt a lot and  So I had the craziest dream one time though, and it was the most realest dream I've ever had in my entire life.

 I sat straight up in my bed awake and I was like, like, because I literally feel like this experience I had was super real, but I've talked about this before on like my old podcast, but I, it was just like two years ago. I swear to God, I was in an alien ship and they gave me a heart transplant. And it feels more real than this world ever feels.

Whoa. And I know that's wild to say, people are like, we're talking about the medical system and acupuncture, but I'm like, it's stuff like that where it leaves me feeling even more confused. Yeah. And then I get upset because I don't know, and then I think half the game is not knowing, and Yep.  I'm in awe. I was like, wow, that was amazing.

And then I'm also like, what the fuck?  Well, okay. So I'll, I'll share my own little, I don't know if this is like alien esque experience, but aliens, but I tell you, I went somewhere. Okay. It's crazy. What's out there in your dream space. And there's, Oh man, there's this, , I won't be able to quote the source, but  this is within the Eastern medical space.

It, some, some old wise man said one time,  that the dream space is more real because you're not confined by your physical vessel, that you can actually travel and have more interstellar experiences because of how like flexible and mobile your spirit is.  And so they consider that the dream space is more real than your actual physical waking shared experience space with other humans.

And I was like, wow, I think it was a native American thing actually. It was,  no, I'm, I'm fully into that. You trust me, I've,  I've read books on it. I've watched all the videos. I'm like, that's a rabbit hole. I enjoy, yeah. Graham Hancock does a really great book,  supernatural, and he talks about all of this stuff from a alien abduction experience.

To,  what shamans go through in their initiations, those experiences, and he does like the comparison, the side by side, they're very, very similar. And it's like, wow, I wonder if they're like, what's beyond this is so, you  know,  similar from people who have had abduction experiences and people that are.

Doing like medicine, men and women and the work that they do. And I think if you talk to people who've done like ayahuasca, they'll say to you, like, man, they were aliens there. There were, you know, the kinds of experiences that,  the shamans,  Have and facilitate for people all the time. Yeah, absolutely. 

I'm a hundred percent. Let's do another episode on that. Okay. Okay. I want to wrap up here real quick though, but, I wanted to ask you a question. So when I came and we did body work, that's the first time I've ever had that kind of body work done. What were you doing? You're scraping my back. Yeah, I was using a little faux spoon. 

 But I was also using some cups and, basically  we all go through life and we can accumulate toxins. And also we're constantly like every single cell in our body is replaced, , they replace at different intervals, but like, I think your bone cells take the longest amount of time to replace and you get like a brand new set of bones once every seven years or something like that.

Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So with that knowledge, it's like, okay, well, what's happening with that extracellular waste and debris? And what is happening with it? Well, if we're lucky, you know, we're excreting it, right? Because we're sweating it out. Well, we're sweating it out. We're peeing it out. We're defecating. 

I like your professional terms. Thank you. But if it's not leaving, and especially in the traps, because everybody is like this, we spend so much time up in our minds that like a lot of stuff gets stuck up here. And it's one of the reasons like we get headaches and we get dizzy and we get, congestion in our muscles.

So at least that's the way that I like to look at it and explain it because it's something that people can understand like, Oh yeah.  I know my body replaces its cells. We're constantly growing. And one of the ways we can substantiate that is I go to the gym and I work out and I know that the physiology of that is the muscle breaks down and then it builds back up.

Well, if we're not moving that cellular debris out of the area, then it gets stuck there. And so,  We go get massage or we roll it out or we can do cupping. Cupping will physically extract it and pull it towards the surface for the body to kind of carry it away. Yeah, and I would say I was bruised to all high hell.

And you're like, well, it can't do that if you're not full of toxins and gunk. Like if it's not there. Yeah. I was like, oh, fascinating. Yeah, I have a woman actually worked with her yesterday and I see her every week. Transcribed And she gets, and I do her body work every week and I'll crank those cups down hard and zero, zero movement, zero bruising.

That's crazy. Yeah, so if it's Does she start out bruising though or? Uh huh. Okay.  Yeah, and I see her husband every other week and he's got really bad back pain and where that where this Technique comes in really helpful is when people have back pain. I'll do a lot of cupping in the the  The lumbosacral region and around the hips and it's a game changer for people I mean people with like really severe back pain will be like, hey, I'm ready for tune up I know, you know, what's crazy too is if we can  Sometimes you just don't know these things are available as well, you know, but it's like the more you start to learn, I'm like, wow, you really don't have to feel like shit.

You really don't. And I do realize that also comes from a privileged position too, of, you know, like I can find the time, you know, I can block off time in my day and I can afford to go see you, you know, but it's like, I feel like this needs to be spread so that.  We all like can feel different totally. And it's one of the reasons why I've worked so hard to kind of bridge communication between acupuncture schools and why I went and taught over at the medical school and why I'm trying to bring this into the public light is because I realized a long time ago when I was looking at the, the, the dynamics of The work I did was to help the disability determination process, a process that inherently  made it so that people could get a check.

It was almost like encouraging them like, Hey, don't work. You have to stay disabled in order to get this check. And if you do work, then that's fraud. That's social security fraud. We're going to come after you and then we're going to put you in jail. And it's like, I don't know. Like that, if this stuff worked that well for me. 

Why aren't we as like  decision makers in the federal space? Why aren't we incentivizing people to go to all of these different modalities and figure out the medicine that works well for them? Yeah. And so exactly. So they can continue to be like open clinics, you know, yes. Like we could choose to spend our money in that way as opposed to,  Continuing to propagate a system that keeps people sick.

And when I realized that, I was like, Oh man, you know, there's a moral imperative inside of me. And I kind of took an oath when I came to this. Federal agency to be a good steward of the taxpayer's dollars. I, I was very decidedly, I'm going to make this a better place. And when I realized that I couldn't do that,  I had to go, I had to go figure out how to do it on my terms. 

Um, but that's, that's my soap box. I like your soap box. Okay. Janine. Well, thanks for hanging out with me in my office today. I was gonna say on the couch, but these are like,  What are these chairs, chairs, wicker chairs, wicker chairs. I was like, what's the word. I was like, rah, rah, rah, rah, rah, words. Thanks for having me.

Yeah. And thanks for being a light in my life. And thanks for taking your time today to share some of it. , if you guys want to find Janine, she's the acupuncturist underscore org. Right? Yeah. Yeah. On Instagram.  You might even see some cameos from Samantha on, that's me, on her Instagram. Thanks for making me look so good online.

Whatever. You look great. Dude, bringing the good medicine to people. That's, that's what you're really helping me do.  I really love that you're my, , yeah, my coach and you know, when your coach  just help you with your social content, I'm like, Sam, how do I post a story? Do I tag myself? I was like, don't tag yourself. 

I'm a beginner. But really though, if we, this is just like an epiphany I'm having and take for what you will. But if you look at your social media, even as a vessel to, you know, in your home, you can only help so many people. But you can possibly potentially impact millions of people when you push outside of that.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And so I hope anyone listening, you know, encourages you to just, I don't know, just be a baddie. What do you think? Yeah. Be a baddie. That's always my thing. I'm all be a baddie. I like it. All right. We'll see you guys next week. Thanks guys.