Recovery is the New Black: Sobriety, Shame, and Changing Your Future with Michelle Smith

Michelle Smith, founder of Recovery Is the New Black, joins me for a unfiltered conversation about sobriety, shame, and breaking free from the grip of alcohol. We spill the tea about the truth behind mommy wine culture, the trap of moderation, and why drinking is so deeply ingrained in women’s lives.

Michelle shares her journey from working in corrections and addiction recovery to struggling with her alcohol use disorder, exposing the stigma that keeps so many stuck.

We talk about how to build real connections without alcohol, the hardest parts of getting sober, and why quitting drinking is the ultimate act of self-love.

If you've ever questioned your relationship with alcohol or wondered, "Do I have a problem?", this conversation will bring you the answer you need. And can provide you with hope to end the guilt and shame cycle, once and for all!

Connect with Michelle:

Instagram: @‌RecoveryIsTheNewBlack
Website & Coaching: Recovery Is The New Black

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Chapters

• 1:09 Recovery is the New Black
• 2:12 Addiction
• 3:56 Women in Recovery
• 8:41 Mommy Juice Culture
• 15:57 Sobriety and Relapses
• 22:17 Moderation vs. Complete Sobriety
• 27:01 Recognizing Unhealthy Relationships with Alcohol

Transcript

 I had been working as a certified alcohol and drug counselor within the Department of Corrections for years and years and decades, actually, before it really became a problem.

And that. Slip kind of turned into this slide of just full blown on alcohol use disorder in a severe capacity.

I think some people try to like willpower and white knuckle it just to prove to themselves. They don't have a quote unquote problem, but when we do set those parameters and we create a boundary.

And we notice how hard it is to not give in because there's always going to be a reason to drink. Whether it's sad, happy, celebrating,  we don't help a buddy move without beer and pizza, right?

We've created this problem. America has a drinking problem, period. 

 

Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. Today I have a really fun guest on. Her name is Michelle Smith and she is the founder and creator of Recovery Is The New Black, which I absolutely love that title. So welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. Yes, no, we're here for it, right? 

 Tell me about Recovery is the New Black. Is that just like your community? Is that your Instagram handle? Like, what is that to you?  It is everything, really. I love this question. Nobody ever asked me this question.  I'm sure the majority of people have seen Orange is the New Black. I have over, jeez, I think almost 24 years of, Corrections experience and working in the field of addiction recovery in the Pacific Northwest and the Department of Corrections.

And so, you know, the whole Orange is the New Black twist on top of being a person in recovery and that, you know, That new black is like the new thing, the new way of doing things, right? It could be looked as like a spinoff trendiness or whatever, but those are kind of where the two collided for me of just being a person in recovery.

And this can be a really cool, inspiring, passionate thing. And I'm going to show you how  that's where it was kind of born.  I actually, I love it. Like, I love the name. I'm like, that's so fun. But okay, wait, this is something I hadn't planned to ask you about. I didn't realize this. So you worked in corrections, like in addiction and recovery, but then you were like yourself, like struggling with addiction.

 Yes. That's where the shame spiral comes in as being that person who can practice. You know what they preach, but I, I never fell into that trap of alcohol use disorder until later on. So I had been working as a certified alcohol and drug counselor within the Department of Corrections for years and years and decades, actually, before it really became a problem.

And that. Slip kind of turned into this slide of just full blown on alcohol use disorder in a severe capacity. So, , yeah, I am that person that wanted to stay in secrecy and in hiding because I mean, come on, who wants to be  that drunk counselor, you know, telling people what to do and then me not.

waiting, couldn't wait until 5 p. m. to be able to nosedive into a bottle of tequila or wine or whatever. So yeah, it's a pretty interesting story and I guess I can't say it's unique because there are a lot of people. It's just not very widespread. There's a lot of It's not as much conversation that I wish that there was, but I understand why there's  Yeah, because it's a little bit of a stigma.

You're like, oh, I don't want to know that my counselor is drunk.  Right, right. You know, it's just like those nutritionists. Like, if you're a dietician, you should probably kind of present in this package of being a person who practices what they preach and they're healthy, but my father was a physician and he smoked, he drank,  it's like Just because you do this doesn't mean you follow your own stuff, right?

Well, yeah, we're all human.  Right, right. So yeah, and so Recovery is a New Black is just that, that name that I took on, and it just became, you know, the platform for my community of women, and it's my handles across social media, and it's just a brand that I've created empowering women to really just take a look at their relationship with alcohol, and just really Know that it's never too early or too late to reassess and really any drug of choice.

It could be food, Amazon, you know, cocaine. It doesn't caffeine. This disease of addiction doesn't discriminate. And I think it's just as we talked about the stigma associated with different types of addiction. There is a social norm and some things are looked at that are normal as long as we can hold it right within this moderate level of consumption and be responsible, whatever the heck that's supposed to mean.

Right. But I love the conversation that alcohol is a drug is a mind altering chemical that is affecting anybody and everybody from the inside out and risk as we know with all this research and information that risk starts at the first drop. And that's not to scare people away, but people need to be informed and need to know what they're putting in their body because too, people are counting too many chemicals and calories, you know, they're not counting the poison, the chemicals, they're counting the calories and, you know, all the things.

I saw a social media post recently that this, fitness guru expert was talking about, like, it's 106 calories for a banana, but it's 70 calories for a glass of wine. Choose wisely. And I'm like, are you kidding me right now? You know, and of course I don't chime in very often, but I'm like, you know what?

You can't get a DUI from too many bananas.  And, you know, of course, the two teens in camps come out, well, you're not supposed to drink and drive and, you know, don't make sobriety your personality. And I'm like, too late.  But there's just so much stigma and misinformation and just hope for moderation that keeps people stuck.

So that's kind of where Recovery is a New Black just kind of was created to just empower and educate women to make. Better decisions for them.  I actually love that. I think you should get it on jackets. Do you have it on jackets already?  I do.  I knew it. I knew it.  So do you ever get like sober fatigue where you're just like, I don't want to talk about this anymore.

It's exhausting. Like I don't want this to be my whole personality.  You know, there's little itty bitty seasons. You know, I think I never thought I'd be like an entrepreneur and.  You really have to have that. Why, why am I doing this? Because the fire in my belly, I have to have this purpose and be a purpose driven person to keep me going against all odds.

And I do this because for the last 24 years, I've been passionate about. Recidivism and seeing people change and treatment works, people do freaking recover. And I'm, as you can tell, super passionate about that. So, you know, if this was just something that I wasn't educated and went to school and made a career out of, maybe I would, if it was just my personal statement and testimony and story, because I see a lot of people in the virtual space saying, Hey, you know, it's been two or three years.

I am just a person who doesn't drink anymore. And I really don't. Feel inclined. Or called to talk about it so much because it's just who I am. And, you know, I just hit over eight years and I get that piece, but I'm far from, from ever going to be done because there's just so much more work and I'm so passionate about it that I go in and out of sharing more of my story and empowering other people.

And I just try to find ways to mix it up. Um, but you know there are there are seasons where it does get more difficult or I feel like I've said it I don't know if anybody else needs to hear it and then it just I'm reminded that that's my imposter syndrome. That is me trying to shut down. That's my addiction talking Um, so I just learn to take breaks and take better care of myself when those those moments start to kind of kick in, um, because somebody needs to hear what I have to say and somebody needs to know that they're not alone.

And as we all know, we help one person. It was all worth it.  Well, yeah. And if you think about it too, like, I just found you a few months ago, you know, and I'm new into my sobriety journey, I'm almost nine months sober. So it's like,. You know, do you know what I'm saying? Like, there's always more people who are getting sober and like, need to hear from people like you. 

Yeah, absolutely. Congratulations, by the way. Oh, thank you. I'm excited. So, you kind of, it looks like you kind of like, hit like, a point where you were like, the mommy juice culture has to go. Do you feel like that's what really changed it for you? Because I was reading about how you said you had like, a pile of 24 hour chips.

So, obviously you did AA as well, right? Mm hmm. Yes. Do you still go to AA? Okay. I love it. Yeah. I think it's a great program, but like what kind of changed there where you went from like the mommy juice culture? I guess I'm kind of asking two questions. So let's ask this, like, how did the mommy juice drinking culture contribute to your addiction? 

Yes.  I had started, you know, I waited. until my 30s before I really got into drinking outside of anything dabbling sporadic recreational.  And so it kind of all collided at the same time where I'm thinking, okay, I'm over 30. This predisposition to alcoholism that runs rampant through my family, if it would have If it would have happened to me, it would have happened by now thinking like, it's not my addiction is not in hibernation.

Like I'm not about to poke the bear, like I'm an immune and I'm going to be this person that shows everybody that you can master moderation and not become one of the statistics. And so, you know, as. Things started to happen like they are for everybody in their lives. It's going to look different, but I'm trying to climb this corporate ladder and trying to make a name for myself and overextending myself.

And, you know, my mother suddenly passed away and I started having postpartum depression symptoms, but didn't realize that's what it was. I had a stroke. There was a lot of things happening in a very short amount of time. And that's kind of when. I was looking for community and belonging. I lost my mother as I was becoming a mother, and it was absolutely devastating.

And I looked for other moms for connection and comfort. And it was like, your mom just died, Michelle. Let's go have a glass of wine. You know, let's go have a shot by the burial site. You know, you work really hard. You're working two jobs in a maximum security prison. And you're literally Raising these kids almost on your own because your husband's working graveyard and you deserve a glass of wine Leaving bottles at my doorstep.

It starts very small and progressive  And so that mommy juice was just like everyone's in the thick of it motherhood's really hard and we have this Message that we're told by big alcohol that motherhood's hard and drinking helps and it's very innocent and It is very controlled for a lot of people for a very long period of time.

But the thing is, and I'm guilty of this, that when you start just slowly making a shift and saying, I'm not going to go to, you know, a Bible study, or I'm not going to go to a Pilates class, I'm just going to stay home tonight. And I have a glass of wine and that's slowly over time. becomes a tool of coping.

And if we're going to reach for that, we're not using other tools and resources that we've used before. And they do take more effort and you don't get that instant gratification. And so for me, I just, you know, one  into two and two turned into three and a on. That's how the progression of addiction works.

And I didn't wake up one morning saying, I'm going to pour vodka in my cornflakes. Like I can, you know, go and take it or leave it for many years. And so that sense of belonging was very big for me of finding that connection and that camp of other moms. And it wasn't that there was necessarily all the peer pressure.

It was just back to what everybody did. Their kids were running around, you were having a glass of wine. You went and had bottomless mimosas. When you have a child that's new, you get a plate of lasagna and you get a bottle of wine. It's just what we do in our culture. And it was the perfect breeding ground for my predisposition to, of alcoholism to flourish.

And that's when the shift from me just wanting a glass of wine paired with a nice fish went from that controlled Relationship with alcohol all the way to that's my dinner and then I want more for dessert  Well, it was giving you like permission, you know, it's like hey, you're having a bad day.

Go ahead and drink this  Exactly. You were talking a lot about like how you were connecting though with other moms as well over a glass of wine. And so how do you kind of shift that? Because that is something, you know, newly sober and even I think not newly sober, it's like you're going out. How do you connect with people without the alcohol? 

You know, it's a great question and I feel like it's so personalized and how you do it because. Some people just aren't ready to have that conversation because breaking up with alcohol, let's be honest, like nine times out of 10, like we don't want to, we don't want to stop. We don't want people to police us.

We don't want that accountability. We just want to find regulation and moderation to this thing. And so,  stayed further and further in that shame spiral of that secret, keeping me sick. And that wasn't helpful. Right. And so. They can't help me if I don't know. That I needed help or I had a problem because at that time I didn't even know how to help myself.

And so eventually when it got really, really bad, I just had to say no to everything so that I could say yes to everything later. So I had to say no to all obligations. I had to literally go back to the basics of just, I have to learn to sit in discomfort and distress. I can't have all these external triggers and influences because it would take absolutely nothing for me to cave.

And so I have to just rebuild my wellness toolbox, my self worth. I had to learn to trust myself again, and people needed to learn to trust me again. And I slowly was able to venture out with a small circle of people who did know and did support my, my sobriety. And honored that. And there were a few people that it was the glue alcohol was what kept our relationship together.

And when I wasn't drinking any more of those organically, naturally fizzled away and sure that's hard. Because we don't want to be that person that can't control our alcohol and gets ghosted or left out of things. Um, but that's just how, that's just how the world works. And I think when we clear out people  there, it creates space and opportunity for new people to come in.

And that was my truth.  Well, I know I should be on a plane right now today going to Cabo for my 40th birthday and my friends and family are  But we're not you know, and it was just a choice. I made a few months ago I was like, we're not going  and it wasn't because I thought I would drink there. It was just something I no longer aligned with  yeah, but yeah, I'm like, I hope you guys enjoy that trip  Yep.

Good for you. Good for making the best decision for you and not feeling influenced and, and like you're going to FOMO and miss out because there was a reason that you chose to, to stay behind. No, I'm excited. I am doing something totally different and I'm like thrilled. I'm running a race in Las Vegas. So that's awesome. 

Okay, so let's scoot back because I was kind of like combining some of my questions there for a second about the 24 hour chips because I did get sober once in 2020 and I had that 24 hour chip, but then I didn't go back and I got sober just last year, 2024. So there was like a four year gap that was a little psychotic roller coaster ride.

But like, how did you keep going back and getting the 24 hour chips? And then when were you like, enough of this?  Right, right. Well, you know, I just kept going back because I had to reset my clock. Like, I could go, you know, a few days or a week without it and, constantly just resetting where I just felt super discouraged, you know?

But I was like, well, maybe I just don't need a track. Maybe I don't need to do that. And I was like, no, Michelle, you need the accountability and you need to work on this program.  Because you need that honesty and you need that accountability, period, you know? There's goods and bads to both ways of doing it.

That constant reset is also very discouraging. And so we have to find that balance of what works for us.  I just kept going back. That was the message that I kept getting is that, you know, you're gonna. If you don't give up, and that's what I try to really get across in my social media posts.

As long as you don't give up, you take breaks, you learn from things, you don't shame yourself because we can't shame ourselves clean and sober. We just can't, but there is something missing. There's something that needs to be learned from every relapse, every slip, every drink, every slide, whatever we want to call it.

And if we stop. Being so hard on ourselves and finding each relapse with a little bit of compassion and curiosity and lean in and say, Oh, it's the weather when it's 70 degrees, I get triggered because I associate a glass of wine with a beautiful sunset or every other Friday's payday. I'm triggered by the money in the weekend or the X has the kids.

I feel lonely and I feel abandoned. There's something to connect. There is a reason that you're. Finding the patterns to this habitual relapse. And that's what I kept doing. It was, I kept coming back. I kept learning. I didn't know everything. I was willing to learn. I was willing to do the work. And eventually. 

It's stuck, you know, and I think we always wait for these aha moments, these, what we call them, rock bottoms. We have a million, we can have a million, or we don't have to have any, but it's never usually a rock bottom that's like, okay, my life has been transformed, I got the message, I'm never gonna pick up again.

This scared me, right? Because I had all of that stuff happen. You know, I went to the hospital, I went to rehab, I went to detox, I had child protective services in my life, like, all of these horrific things that my life, me, this stuff doesn't happen to Michelle, this stuff started happening to Michelle, and All of those things you think, and I would love to say that when those things happened, then I would never pick up again.

And I finally started working a program of recovery and I've been sober since, but that would be a lie. But every single thing was a seed that planted, that was giving me more information about. Michelle, you're a person who can't drink or who's choosing not to drink and that leaves endless possibilities of things that you can do.

And why are you trying so hard to keep this thing that is no good for you in your life? And when we removed that, it creates space to really get to the root of why are you doing this? And I was able to do the work and find out that I had postpartum depression, you know, that I hadn't done the work around losing my mom.

You know, I was burned out from working double jobs in a maximum security prison.  There was so many things that were revealed when I created the space and opportunity to allow those things to start coming through. And so  I woke up  my last day one, November 24th of 2016. And, you know, it's just usually that thing that you're just done  nothing huge, you know, that was like life changing that had happened previously.

I was just, somebody told me once just drink until you're done. And hopefully it doesn't kill you. And although it nearly did multiple times, like I was so enraged and, and disgusted with this disease and hated alcohol so much that I was just like, I can't, I can't, I can't do this anymore. And I think the one thing that sticks with me that made it even more legit of my last day one is my parents both passed when I was young and.

I was 15 with my dad and, you know, I was, I was an adult with my mom, but I was just learning to become that mom. And I still was young and I was slowly eliminating myself from my own life. And I know what it's like to be an adult orphan. And I was doing that to my two beautiful kids and shame on me. 

That's not fair. It's not fair to them to have them watch this and witness this and at some level that's neglect, right? That's not safe for them. That's not the safe environment. That's not the mom that I told myself that they were going to get and that they deserved. And that was the day that I just was like, I'm done.

No matter what happens, no matter what. You're not going to pick up. You have a million other things that you can do. And  that was the promise that I made to myself.  I think that's a beautiful promise to make. A lot of people were asking me, you know, like, Oh, did you get a DUI? Like what happens, you know?

And I'm like, no.  It was just that we have to be done and I had like a full blown breakdown over just like having to be done  Because it was not it was not helping my life at all  One thing that I really fell into the trap of and especially like we're in 2020 I was like you have a drinking problem, you know like I recognized that I could see it and you know Look myself in the mirror and be like you have a drinking problem even though like the prior years before I don't know I think you're really blind for a long time, but Um, in 2020, I was like, I'm gonna do this, I went, and then I was like, oh, I can't do this, but my whole thing was like, oh, I'm gonna moderate it, and I'm gonna control my drinking, which is such a slippery slope.

And I've seen you talk and even make the statement that moderation is a trap, so why is it important for you to maintain complete sobriety? Like, what do you think makes people different between like, they can moderate and they can't moderate?  Right. I think people who try to moderate  already know that they can't control it.

Right. Like I don't try to moderate how many brownies I eat. I just don't like brownies. I don't have to worry about self control. I don't, you know, it's like you see this recycled content, which a lot of it is about sober quotes, but it's like, you know, people who don't have a problem with alcohol, don't wonder if they have a problem with alcohol. 

Right. So if you don't have a problem, you don't have to moderate anything. You just have a sip or you can put the cork back in a bottle of wine, which I think is insane. Cause I can't do that,  you know, or have a glass and leave it, but. Those people don't consider themselves having to moderate. They're just a person who consumes a nice glass of vino or a nice glass of something once in a while.

But when you're starting to say, Oh, well, I just want to find moderation. What you're saying is you just want to find that healthy relationship with alcohol. And you've noticed that you venture off from that. And it's not necessarily just that one time, once a year, that you make a fool of yourself at the work holiday party.

You know, you're starting to do it more where. You know, sometimes you're able to control it and control means like not have people mad at you or forget your wallet or break your heel or end up in a bush or, you know, have your head down with shame walking in on Monday because you don't know what you did at happy hour after work on Friday.

Like when you have to start, Like tapering it back in and negotiating and measuring your alcohol. And, you know, I'm going to stop drinking or not start drinking until 5 PM, not on the weekends, no hard alcohol. You start making all of these rules and you have these boundaries around alcohol. That's when there starts to not necessarily, I don't want to use the word problem, but that's when we really have to lean in and get curious about what are we doing here? 

Right? Why, why am I having to make these rules? Do I need to make these rules or do I just need to eliminate something? But I think the big thing is, is that when we don't have these negative external consequences, such as we're so Everyone goes to the DUI, right? I haven't gotten a DUI, or I haven't lost my job, or I haven't had somebody be mad at me.

Those are like the benchmarks for us people, you know, society, let's say, that says, okay, well, maybe we have a problematic relationship with alcohol. Like, we don't. Evaluate our relationship and tell those things start to happen. But why don't we start evaluating? How does this feel? How do I feel in the morning when I wake up?

What did my kids think about me drinking? You know, do I like this excess bloat and weight? Do I not like having clarity in the morning? Do I like waking up hungover and not sleeping well? Why don't we start asking those questions versus the yes. Waiting until our lives become a dumpster fire or that we're chemically dependent before we then start to make a decision about, do I need to reel this back in and start moderating, or do I have a problem?

You know, and I think that's the part that's really hard is that nobody really wants to. Stop because we like to feel good. That's why we drink or because we don't want to feel at all. And I think people who say, Oh, I just drink for the taste of it. It's delicious. I think you're a liar. Like you acquire a taste eventually, but nobody drinks because they love the taste of it.

And if we go back to when we first started our first drink or had that.  You didn't like the taste of it. You like how it makes you feel, you know, and people are just not honest with themselves. And it's like, life is really hard and we don't set boundaries. We don't say, no, we're running a million miles an hour.

We're over committing. We're comparing ourselves to everybody else's lives. We're never going to be good enough. And I think a lot of that keeps so much of us drinking to just literally cope and de stress and quiet them after a really long, hard day. And we don't say, I need to set boundaries. I need to have space.

I need to, you know, hit up a class or, you know, go to a cycling class like we just don't make those decisions. We just think I'm going to keep going at 100 miles an hour and I'm going to end it with an evening nightcap, and then we're just going to do it all over.  And that's how a lot of us live our life. 

Yeah. So what advice would you give for someone who's like kind of recognized they have these unhealthy, that they do have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol? Like where do they go next?  Right. I think learning and education. So, you know, listen to the podcasts like these, get a couple of quick lit books, do a little bit of education on alcohol use disorder.

And just go in. And I think when you really learn about how alcohol affects brain health, you know, how it affects your mental health, that's the place to start. Not to scare you into, you know, not ever drinking again, cause that's not helpful either. But I think that there's just a lot of myths. and a lot of things that we hold on to that wants us to stay connected to the drug, to the drink.

And I think that's the best place to start because this is about our personal relationship with alcohol, not Michelle's, who is so far chemically dependent and her rock bottom is just horrific. And I can't see myself there because I'm not there. So, you know, when we start comparing.  Our current standard of drinking to somebody else's rock bottom.

It gives people permission to self destruct and keep going until they get to a place. Like Michelle, and then they have to have extreme measures and interventions because they're addicted, right? Well, I actually love talking about this because it's basically virtue signaling. I love hanging out with people who were more out of control than me because then I could be like, Oh, look, my drinking's great.

Their's is not. It was like, Yep. Yep. As an alcoholic, I was like, I loved that. I'm like, Oh, they got drunk. Great.  Yep. I have like clients who will be like, you know, I've asked all my friends, you know, I have a problem like you need their permission or they're like sign off. I'm like, you're asking all your bar buddies.

Of course, they're going to tell you they don't have a problem. They're doing the same thing. Do you think you have a problem? Do you think that your life might improve? Can you stop drinking and actually Don't cave or give in, you know, and that's why those dry January, dry July, sober Octobers are so good is because you do get a permission slip from society.

You can just say, just for the health of it, I'm taking this month off. Let's jump on the wellness trends, but it's like, I think some people try to like willpower and white knuckle it just to prove to themselves. They don't have a quote unquote problem, but it's like when we do kind of set those parameters and we create a boundary.

And we notice how hard it is to not give in because there's always going to be a reason to drink. Whether it's sad, happy, celebrating, you know, we don't help a buddy move without beer and pizza, right? We don't have a kid's birthday party or a barbecue or a holiday event or a Super Bowl party. Without alcohol.

We've created this problem. America has a drinking problem, period. We do. It's so normalized and glorified. It's absolutely ridiculous. And it's okay. It's not  just because I can't do it or choose not to do it. You know, I'm not going to shame and judge other people, but it's just, it's our coping tool. It's what we know.

It's our liquid courage and our currency to be able to exchange connections, meaning and belonging. So it's, It's, it's tricky. It's tricky to know, you know, how do, how do I know if I have one, right? You're going to know you don't have to look for other people to reassure you or give you the answers that you have truly within you and start small.

You know, you, people can't compare themselves to me right now. If they're just like, Ooh, well I am drinking every night, but I wouldn't consider myself an alcoholic. You know what? Ditch label. Ditch them.  If they're keeping you in this box, you're feeling small, you're feeling stigmatized. Just literally, how would I feel if I took a break?

And if there's any resistance there and it's really difficult, you have information from there.  This is super great, Michelle. Okay. So you're a mom, you're a bestselling author, you're a keynote speaker, you're a certified recovery coach. It like really goes on here. Certified alcohol and drug counselor, founder of Recovery is the New Black.

You have so many resources out there for people and again your handle is recovery is the new black and then you also have your  Let's see simplify. Oh my gosh. I didn't write it down, right? You have a course. Tell me about your course  Yeah. Simplify sobriety. So it's, it's a self paced course. You know, I get so many women that are like, I just, I'm not ready to share.

I'm not ready to talk about it. And so they want the,  they're in, they're busy. So they want self pace when the kids go to bed, they can, you know, do a module at a time and they want the privacy. And so I created what people were asking for. So it is really tools and resources and information. And. That self guided to jumpstart your journey, whatever direction you choose to go, I'm going to create this blueprint, give you this information and you get to decide and implement some of the tools, some of the skills, some of the resources to determine where alcohol, if alcohol fits in your life.

And so that's simplified sobriety. And on top of, I do personal coaching too, for people who are wanting just more. More support that's individualized and more tailored to what their specific needs are.  Yeah, and then you also have your journal on Amazon. That looks really cool. I'm like, I need that.  It is so, you know, that was one of the biggest, like, barriers, I think, for me.

Like, people were like, just journal, and I'm like, about what? How do you just brain dump? And I didn't have prompts, and I just It's fair to the blank page. It wasn't helpful. And then I felt like it had to be perfect. Like I was writing some essay or something. And then I'm like, well, I don't want to write too much in case somebody finds this and uses it against me later.

And I was just over complicating the process. And so for me to be able to go in and really learn, like tracking your habits, learning, right. These are like little self love notes to yourself, but in five days, you can. Go like five minutes every single day, you can do one journal entry. It's all prompted for you.

And I really want women to look at the information because it's telling you, it's breadcrumbing what is happening. And so don't just tally your mistakes. I want you to tally your victories. You know, and celebrate all the milestones, not just the only way to measure success along a sober journey or a person who's choosing recovery is by the number of consecutive days they have sober.

And although that is one way to do it, it is not the only way.  And we need to celebrate everything in between that gives us that confidence and that momentum to keep doing it is what we want to do. And so that's what, um, Living Sober, Living Free, that guided journal is. Does for people and the feedback I get is just absolutely amazing.

So I'm glad it's touching people, you know, it's a tool for their, for their toolbox and it's touching their lives in a way that it makes sense to be able to reflect and learn and keep going versus I didn't stay sober shame on me day zero. I'm never going to get this right. That's what I did. And it took me years and years and years to get my mindset right and learn other ways of tracking to continue to keep being excited and proud about a person who's choosing not to drink. 

I love that. Okay guys, if you're listening, well obviously you are, but head over to the show notes and you can check out Michelle. We'll have her linked up. Her Instagram is recovery is the new black. Love your reels. They're actually, they're really fun to watch and very informative. So thank you for all you're doing in the recovery space and just spreading your message of sobriety. 

Thank you. Thank you for having me.