The Dynamics of Sobriety: Love, Friendship, and Family. Feat: Jennie Pool

Navigating Sobriety and Relationships with Jennie Pool

In this episode of The Samantha Parker Show, host Samantha Parker sits down with licensed clinical mental health therapist Jenny Pool for an in-depth discussion on sobriety and relationships. Jenny, who specializes in somatic therapy, shares her expertise on the importance of addressing both the mind and body to achieve holistic healing.

The conversation explores personal journeys of sobriety, the dynamic shifts in relationships, and the complexities of maintaining sobriety in various social settings. Samantha and Jennie also tackle poignant topics like re-parenting and redefining social identities, while offering practical advice on setting boundaries and emotional regulation.

Tune in for a candid and insightful episode dedicated to mental and emotional well-being.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

00:43 Discussing Sobriety and Relationships

00:53 Jenny's Credentials and Somatic Therapy

02:18 Men Counseling Center and Therapy Importance

04:11 Navigating Romantic Relationships in Sobriety

09:41 Setting Boundaries in Sobriety

11:10 Signs a Relationship Might Not Survive Sobriety

13:41 Handling Guilt and Shame in Sobriety

17:15 Changes in Intimacy During Sobriety

21:23 Friendship, Loneliness, and Social Identity in Sobriety

24:05 Opening Up About Personal Struggles

24:38 The Challenge of Maintaining Friendships

26:17 Navigating Loneliness and Connection

27:31 Reevaluating Relationships and Personal Growth

31:06 Family Identity and Re-parenting in Sobriety

33:18 Parenting and Substance Education

35:46 Protecting Sobriety During Social Events

37:42 The Importance of Self-Love and Grieving the Past

40:09 Emotional Sobriety and Intelligence

43:32 Conclusion and Social Media Engagement

Mend Counseling Website: https://mendcounselingcenter.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mendcounselingcenter?igsh=cXc1djh1a3ozczRv 

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Transcript

 Welcome back to the Samantha Parker Show. Today I am sitting with my friend Jenny Pool. I wanna call you Jenny Men. Can you change your last name to Mend to Jenny Mend Pool? Because in all of our stuff online, I have you as like Jenny slash Mend. So that it makes sense to my team.

This is Jenny. She is with Men Counseling, and this is her third time on the podcast. I love being on your podcast, Sam. I love being back here. I've never had anyone on three times besides myself. . No, actually. Well, it feels like an honor because I do feel like I'm gonna sit down and pick your brain. Yes. And I know no one loves that phrase, but I feel like that's what we're gonna do today. I love it. Pick it. Pick my brain. 'cause I think we have a lot of good things to talk about in regards to sobriety and relationships.

Important stuff. Yeah. So today we are gonna be focusing on sobriety and relationships. So Jenny tell the peeps, tell the kids what your credentials are. I am a licensed clinical mental health therapist. I have a dual licensure in, structural body work. So it's led to a focus on somatic therapy, which is a type of therapy that heals what's going on in the body, not just the mind unwinding and helping heal and repair the nervous system.

Okay. Sometimes you say these things and I'm like, I don't know what she's talking about, but I've actually learned a lot more about you. Yeah. I'm doing your content. Yeah. Well, think about somatic. So somatic healing would be, instead of just talking about some of the things that are going on for you now we're gonna get you connected to your body and do some somatic breathing.

Or we're gonna use modalities like EMDR, brain spotting. Those are modalities that are a little bit well known. And also some different tools to help release tension in the nervous system. There's a book out called The Body Keeps Score. Dr. Bessel VanDerKolk wrote it and now it's a catchphrase.

The Body Keeps Score he wrote that book. It's very technical, but it's true is that you can get a lot unencapsulated outta the mind, but the very cells, the very fascia, of our body stores emotional debris, somatic debris. So we have to release that to help our bodies return to equilibrium and safety in our systems.

Yes, I have a ton of questions about that, and I've actually seen it in real life, and you helped me with my body work as well. I have this hip issue guys. I'm like an old lady. I got a hip issue and you've been amazing. Like an amazing, amazing body worker. I know I've said that before on the show.

You've also built an entire practice. You have multiple therapists and you have this center men counseling center. And what I really proud of it in that a lot of experienced licensed clinicians and we have a great eclectic team, so other than a higher level of care, which means if someone needs to go to hospital or an eating disorder center, we can capture quite a bit because all of my therapists are incredibly experienced.

They've been in the field for seven years to two plus decades. So they're very experienced. And so we do a lot of complex trauma. Dual diagnosis couples work, working with families, kids. There's a lot. We can spectrum work, we can cover a lot of bases.

You guys do a great job. Not to bring confidentiality, but my daughter does go to your center. It's a group counseling center. And you guys have done a phenomenal job with her.

Therapy's so important no matter what you've been through in your life. Just having a safe space to talk to people and feeling like it's working for you. A lot of times I've had people be like, I'm not gonna therapy. I didn't have a good experience. So it is important to get the right fit.

And even in our practice we'll have someone I don't know if this is the right fit, and we'll go. Okay, well. Why don't you try one of these other therapists? It's not gonna hurt our feelings. Please tell us if this person or this direction isn't working for you. And if it's not us, I know a lot of therapists in town, let me refer you out.

There's enough room in the sun for everyone. And so those collaborative efforts and being able to share and be like, Hey, go try this person. Find those safe spaces. We need safe spaces. Absolutely. Amen. Okay, I didn't scare you when I sent you my list of questions today, did I?

No, I was actually excited. I'm like, there's we right outta time. Yes. No. I don't know if we'll get to all of 'em, but I did send Jenny a list of 20 questions and I said, I don't think we're gonna get to all of these, but I really wanted to go over quite a few things. I wanted to talk about navigating romantic relationships in sobriety.

I wanted to talk about friendships, loneliness, and your social identity and sobriety. Part three, I wanted to talk about family and emotional triggers of sobriety. And then also just creating boundaries and long-term emotional healing. So this is a deep episode, you guys, if you're listening, buckle up.

I think it's gonna be helpful because I am not like a mental health professional whatsoever. In fact. The, I've done a lot of mental health work. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You have, I'm not a professional. Yeah. I get so many questions so many dms, so many texts, like, how are you navigating this? How are you navigating that?

And so all I can do is talk about like my own experience. Yeah. But I think this is gonna be a really important episode. We need to pin it somewhere. Yeah. So people can come back to it. And I know I'll keep referring people over to it. Yeah. Okay. So let's dive in. Ready for question number one?

Question number one, brand. I don't think I've ever done this where I just shoot questions at people. Usually it's an open conversation. We're gonna be more structured today. Do we like that? It's okay. It helps shape the conversation. Okay. This is a sidebar though. I really want to ride in your Bronco.

It's so cool. Yeah. And that is like a Jeep on steroids. I had a Jeep like Wrangler growing up, and this has been my favorite car I've ever had. The Bronco. And you just have the two door? Mm-hmm. I don't know. Today we're sponsored by Bronco. Of course we were, we were recording a podcast where my clients yesterday.

Mm-hmm. And they kept going on these side tangents and they were talking about Scientology. And then they're like, today this episode is sponsored by Ology Scientology. That's funny. The two-door, have you loved the two-door? The two door is great Even having kids. Yep. It's not like I just didn't love the four four door.

It built two boxy. So the, this other one's just like the perfect size. Not only have the two, 'cause my older two drive their own cars, so it's been perfect. Do you have something bigger that you can all drive in if we go, on vacation, we rent a van. Oh, you do? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I was wondering how many kids do you have? Four. Four? Yeah. So there's six of you. Uhhuh. In my head, I was like, she has four. But then I'm like, what if you have more? Yeah. Poor boys. And the teenagers always wanna drive themselves. I'm like, you're not driving your car to Florida. Like we're all, it's one of, it's, it's, it's a big place.

All six of you have driven to Florida before from Utah. Yeah. Listen, you do what you need to do. It was a long drive. You should have worked that out with a therapist. I know, okay, let's start about you guys. I'm sober, but my partner is not. What advice do you give clients navigating that dynamic?

Is it possible to maintain a healthy relationship in this situation? Is it possible to maintain a healthy relationship if you're choosing to be sober and your partner is not? How not sober is your partner? How pervasive is the drinking and how much is it in your atmosphere?

The challenge of sobriety is dealing with, the choice to have sobriety when it's in your atmosphere or it's gonna be, you're gonna be exposed to it being in your atmosphere versus when it's. Just in your atmosphere. 'cause the other person's well, I'm not being sober. So you have to start having good conversations.

You have to start being like, okay, is this excessive? Is this recreational? Is this a problem? And if it's a problem for you, and I'm trying not to have a problem, where I've seen the biggest struggles for couples is if it's casual and social use, oftentimes that can a lot of times stay outta the home.

Because if someone's sober, there's a lot of safeguards to keep. Your exposure to alcohol. Especially if you're new in sobriety and it feels fragile and you're trying to strengthen like the urges and the temptations, it's good to not have it around.

So if your partner's Hey, I'm gonna drink, but I'm just gonna do it out with my friends, then you can navigate that fairly well. If it's a problem, it's gonna create a lot of dissonance. In the relationship because you're gonna have to constantly be like, now that I'm sober, I'm seeing it as a problem for you.

And that's gonna create some splinters and stress fracture in the relationship currently experiencing this. Okay. We'll come to marriage therapy. Yeah, we're have a little session. Yeah. No, it actually has been really hard, but I am realizing, like even just listening to you talk, maybe we just need to write it down.

I'm, okay with this. I don't feel okay with that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Those are what I would call safeguards. And you use the word boundaries, you have to get impeccable with your boundaries. You're also protecting your sobriety while recognizing that, and Sam, you've noticed this in your, in your journey, is that your help is increased.

Mm-hmm. Magnificently, I've watched Sam in her journey of sobriety, and it wasn't just the running, it's the mental, emotional. And physical that has increased for you over time. And so inevitably those spaces, if someone really isn't working on some of those things themselves, it inevitably creates dissonance even separate from the substance.

Well, the substance amplifies that, right? If someone's still using, and you're not trying to. Yes. I feel like I took off running, and it wasn't like I said, Hey, by the way, I'm gonna do this marathon this way. This direction in my life. I understand that, but sometimes it almost feels like I took off running and then I'm like, Hey, aren't you coming?

Yeah. But that's a weird expectation of me to have, i'm like, Hey buddy, I moved two states over. Where are you? Are you coming? And he's I didn't know we were moving. Well, I don't know if I want to. Yeah. And inevitably then it can eventually pushes you to make some decisions about the relationship and how to work on it, right?

And what it means to stay in a healthy relationship amidst the growth that starts happening for the person and what feels like growth or not. Well then how are you growing? Because ultimately, again, separate from a substance in relationships. You're, you're growing together, you're stagnating, you're a neutral space together.

You're stagnating together. And so that has to be constantly nourished. Those take conversations like, where are we at? If we look ahead in a year or five years, what are some of the things that we want in these different pies of life? If substance is an issue in that, that's gonna, that's just gonna amplify some of the discord.

Yeah, it really does. So how do you suggest people set boundaries with a partner who continues to drink or use substances when you're trying to stay sober? You have to decide what your boundaries are gonna be. Is alcohol allowed in the home, is it not? When you're out, is alcohol allowed at the restaurant table?

As long as you have some of your own strategies, and if you're new in sobriety, those are all incredible challenges. Because you're gonna amplify the urges, the fighting, those urges, which is already a huge win in sobriety to fight one, let alone many. So you have to get clear about well, I don't wanna not drink.

Hey, I've only been sober for two months. Can you make that choice in supporting me? And if you go drink, can you do it with your friends when I'm not there? So it's getting clear about what it means to navigate this territory and also not getting these places of well, I don't, I didn't choose this and I don't wanna do it.

Okay, well then we start to have some pretty different priorities, and we have to have conversations about that. You wanna still do this? Here's how it's impacting me. You're choosing me as your life partner. Does the impact of this matter without making you do something you don't wanna do.

But the health of our relationship includes some of these decisions. Next question. Now is a long answer. No, I am like, it's like clicking in my brain, and I'm like, oh my gosh. I think that a lot. 'cause a lot of people have asked me, is your husband sober? And I'm like, sober ish, but not sober.

And there's still been some things that we've had to navigate, but definitely isn't, sam have drinks. Sam have drinks. I think that would be really hard. And I know that my personality, I would've been majorly pushing him to drink. Join me.

Where are you going? Why aren't you still here with me? Oh, I would've pushed it so hard. I would've been like, I don't like this. I didn't sign up for this. Yeah. But that's because I had a problem. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what are some signs that a relationship might not survive sobriety? And when do you know it's time to let go versus keep working on it?

Do people ask you that question? Mm-hmm. In relationships? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So some people are like, I just wish you'd tell me what to do. I'll never tell someone you should leave or you shouldn't leave. What you do is you try and help people make an informed decision about what's healthy and not healthy in their relationships and also what's continually causing the struggles, right?

Or the fractures in the relationship. And if those don't mend and heal, like if people aren't in the business of mending and healing the fractures in the relationship, then they're going to keep breaking the relationship apart till you wake up one day and you go, I can't do this. I'm not doing this anymore.

And I'm gonna go see what it means to file for divorce or what that's gonna look like. There's kinda this word going around conscious uncoupling where we're saying, Hey, maybe we just outgrown each other. We just are in different paths. Let's do some conscious uncoupling. That's more kinda, I think, a harmonious way to try and, go different it unc.

 Conscious. Uncoupling. Yes. Okay. So I've had people come in and be like, Hey, we're gonna do some conscious uncoupling. Does that mean we're gonna go sleep with other people? What does that mean? Gosh, that's more like, Hey, we wanna navigate open relationships.

But conscious uncoupling is we wanna get divorced. We wanna do it in a way that has more harmony instead of these vitriolic or vindictive ways. We want there to be like this idea that, hey, we just maybe earn. Really figuring out the wrong different paths. So kinda when it's time, like when you make that decision, there has to be a lot not going well, and there has to be an unwillingness from one of the parties to ever work on themselves.

Yeah. That's where I see relationships really halt is growth, growth, growth. And this other person being like, cool girl. I'm gonna stay right here. Because inevitably the dissonance gets so big and you're like, I love you, but we just aren't aligning anymore in our life path and our life goals and our life values and the very character of me is shifting in a way that I don't know if I would marry you today versus the man I'm, or the woman I married 20 years ago.

The shifts start to be too big. People change so much though. Mm-hmm. I'm not even remotely the same person I was at 20. But oftentimes those changes, as you're changing you can still find each other, that's growth together and really honor each other's growth and differences. We are different people than we were 20 years ago. Individually, but also together. Where it starts to be a nail in the coffin is that, man, I just, I just keep feeling like no matter how much I grow, this person isn't growing with me.

And it's different if someone's working on it, and I'm trying to figure this out. And then maybe you just make the decision to like, I'm just outgrown each other, no matter how much we're working on it. The other piece is not gonna work on it. And eventually you have to be like, all right, I'm gonna leave you with love.

Well said. How do you handle the guilt or shame that comes up when your healing journey starts to create distance in your relationship? Tell me about how that's felt with you. Because guilt and shame, guilt is like I've done something wrong. The mechanism of guilt helps us be like, I don't really like what I did there and I probably should have done something different

i'll go repair that, right? So oftentimes guilt and shame when it's not helping us create better alignment in ourselves, becomes a not as functional emotion, right? It becomes kinda more toxic to us if we're not using guilt to motivate us to do something better. Yes. So in that situation, it's like you didn't do anything wrong, you just chose to be sober.

Yeah. So what are you guilty about? Guilt and shame has been my personal backpack of shit that I like to carry around. So when I was drinking, I would feel so guilty that I drank and then I could carry that around for a few days. Oh, I was such a horrible person. And then I would just repeat the cycle.

But once I got pretty far down my sober road I'm like, I actually don't feel guilty about. A lot of things. Obviously if I accidentally did something to you and you were like, Hey, that really hurt my feelings, I would feel bad about it.

. Or even if I intentionally did and I didn't mean, you know what I'm saying? That's how GA works, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I accidentally I don't know, ran over Poor Cindy on my know, she's gone down. Yeah. I would feel pretty guilty about that. It's actually changed my perspective on life.

I would feel guilty if we, didn't have the finances that we wanted or our finances weren't looking. I'd be like, oh, that's my fault. I've done this to us. So I was carrying it around in a lot of areas of our relationship. And I've actually just put it down.

I was like, wait, we're both in this together. Good. It's changed a lot, to be honest. If someone came to me and was like, I feel so guilty for getting sober and just leaving this person behind. That. Is a misalignment of that emotion. I would help 'em drill down to what's, what are you, what are you really trying to understand is that I, the, the better sentence is I'm worried that I'm outgrowing this person and that I'm gonna have to make some decisions about that.

And I feel guilty about the space that that's putting me in. You get really more clear about your emotional atmosphere. We met on my 22nd birthday and I was super drunk in a bar, and he claims that we met many times before that, I could not remember.

I don't remember those times. So I always kinda go back to that. I'm like, well, that's how we met. And then one of us, got off the boat and the other one didn't. And I dunno if I felt guilty about that, but I've just had that realization. I would say it's more patience.

I got off the boat and it wasn't a mutual agreement, but I think that's okay. It was time for me to get off that boat. Yeah. And that's where the rubber hits the road it's not just love that sustains relationships. You can really love someone and be like, Hey, this is no longer good for me.

This relationship is no longer good for me, even though I love you and we spent all this time. And that's where you have to get really clear about what's working, what's not working, and what it means to be on separate boats in some ways. Can those boats float together parallel or are they really going different directions?

Yeah. And even if they're just going different directions a degree at a time, they're going to eventually be really far away from each other. I think the way, yeah. Good job. That was a really, I'm all watching it my head, I'm like, yeah, we can still tie there together. No, I actually think we're doing really good.

Honestly though, I've always said when people are like, marriage is hard and you have to work on it. I'm like, that's a weird statement. But I would say since getting sober, I'm like, oh, we do have to sit down and work on this. Yeah. But I also think that's cool. Yeah, absolutely.

That's the beauty of the challenge. Yeah. I've really impressed with our growth. Yeah. Even if it's been messy it's always messy meeting each other and finding each other through the mess. It's when people don't find each other through the mess that the deeper splinters start to happen.

And when those get really deep. Then the fractures happen, the relationship really starts fracturing apart. Yeah. I like how you explain that. It feels like logs and eventually you can't hold that together anymore. It's been chopped to pieces.

Okay. This is my last question about, this kind of relationship. How can sobriety change intimacy and what should couples be aware of as their emotional and dynamic shifts, particularly in intimacy? This is interesting because a lot of people will. Drink alcohol and enjoy the softening of the filter, the inhibition everyone's experiences, under the influence of alcohol can be different with intimacy. You have to start. Being more attuned and aware of what's working for you, what's not if you're using alcohol to have some of this uninhibited intimacy, and all of a sudden you don't have that on board anymore, you have to start getting clear about what it means for you to enjoy intimacy without the effects of alcohol.

And or now I have to pay attention to having intimacy because I used to get snowed by the alcohol and I wouldn't have to really do much with it. There's both sides of that. I feel like this is the most vulnerable. I've been on a podcast, these are vulnerable questions. I know. I was looking at 'em and I'm like, oh, I'm just gonna talk about this today.

It's been so hard. Yeah. I feel like you're smothering me. Why are you touching me? Yeah. It's been like night and day. And then you have to get clear about what it means for you to enjoy the intimacy. Especially not being blunted.

Sometimes we just don't care. Whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen and I don't care what I look like and I don't care what I'm doing, and I'm gonna go over here and throw up and come all back to it. I dunno if I've ever done that, but have you done that to No, but listen, I've heard a lot of stories.

It changes the dynamics because you have to re-pattern. And repackage intimacy for you. That feels good. That feels safe, that feels connected. That also doesn't feel, am I gonna remember that in the morning? Do I care if I do? Because you're more alive, you're more awake, you're more attuned.

You're just awakened. Okay. Let's keep taking these books off the shelf. This is fun. It's hot in here. I don't like this. Oh yeah. Okay. So I used alcohol to cover up trauma, and when I took it away, it was like PTSD 1 0 1. With intimacy. That's where somatic healing comes in.

If you've had trauma and you were using alcohol to blunt it so that you could muscle through those intimate experiences, your body's gonna deal with the recoil really loudly. You have to untangle, it to the degree that your window of tolerance is there and you feel safe.

And that's why somatic therapy is helpful because you can get caught in a, circular motion of just talking about something almost to re-injury. Somatic, healing helps get the very, what wasn't safe. Then you can reclaim equilibrium and safety in the body, in the pelvis, like in the pelvis, in the womb, in your whole body, right?

So that touch can feel safe again. But it is an unwinding, and a partner has to be really patient with that because if before it was like I had access regardless, and now all of a sudden I'm having to go through these different doors to create safety for my partner, that's where sexual and intimate attunement really starts to matter.

Do you feel safe? Are you okay? Can we go this far? Can we, and then you can get, that's far enough and let's stop. I've had couples that just be like, let's just sit here, half dressed and be okay with this space, it takes longer to get into the doorways while we unwind and heal from what wasn't safe then and create more safety in the body.

Time, patience, and practice. Lots of conversations and some exposure and also stop. We've hit my threshold, we've hit my window of tolerance. Managing frustrated expectations from another partner that may have otherwise more quickly had access intimately to say, Hey, I care most about your safety and reclaiming safety.

The rest of that stuff will come later. So when it stopped, it's okay, let's go take care of ourself in the bathroom. We're good. You stay safe, right? It's creating, safe, creative ways to make sure that your partner is able to reclaim that safety and that you're going at a pace they can, and managing any kind of frustrated expectations that may come up.

Yeah. That's attunement and care though for a partner and that's love is I'm gonna sacrifice some of what I want right now as she is able to reclaim safety so that the future of these experiences are incredible. Because we traversed all of this and that's serious love.

Yes. And that's what you're in a relationship for is to walk through it with each other. Yes. You're really good at what you do. Thank you. Okay, let's move on to friends. You ready for my friendship questions? Yes. Friendship. Loneliness and social identity. One of the hardest parts of sobriety for many people is losing friendships.

Why does this happen so often? Well, because now the common denominator isn't the partying or the good time or the laughter. Jay Shady wrote, he had a podcast. He said the lowest form. Connection and communication or connection could be watching TV together. If that's what you're doing as a couple, then you gotta get some better things.

'cause that's like the lowest form of connection. So when you look at friendships and the effort it takes to maintain connections and relationships drinking and taking another shot and laughing and having fun, that's kinda like tier one. It's easy to sustain because.

The alcohol is doing, a lot of the heavy lifting, you guys can talk here and there, but really it's gimme the next shot and oh my God, you're so wasted. Or whatever. Someone's going Hey, tell me about your future passions and tell me more about this podcast that you're doing.

It's not typically happening in these scenes, right? I'm not saying that people can't sit down with a glass of wine and sometimes sit there and just have the circle of laughter and, and, and it's gonna lose more casual settings. But, but ultimately, if you start getting sober and you're not as fun anymore, it changes the landscape of relationships.

In recovery there is such a push to, if you're in recovery. You need community. Community helps heal, addictions because it's hard to feel alone or beings wired for connection. It's innate in our biology. And so when we don't have connections and people, and that's different than being like, well, I can go to this movie alone,

we're not meant to. Be alone and isolated. And so when we make those decisions and we change and then all of a sudden the landscape of our friendships change, we start to be like, okay, well where are my new people? Because I need some connections and I want some like minds and I want to have deeper conversations.

I want to have maybe some deeper experiences, or I wanna learn how to fun a different way. Like the friend that would never go hiking with you and all, all they wanna do is do shots with you and you try and take 'em a hike. It's I hate this. And you're like, I need to get some hiking friends. Right?

Yes. I think a lot of things go back to time and grace, mm-hmm. Just give it time and give yourself some grace. It's definitely been painful for me to navigate. I don't wanna call it low hanging fruit 'cause I don't think that all I don't think drinking social, like sometimes going out for drinks with the girl, all that stuff can, it's not always, no.

We go to dinner and you have a drink. You're not low hanging fruit, Jenny. I think there can be some social atmospheres built around sometimes going out with the girls and getting drinks. When you're really trying to be sober and it's being a pervasive problem that's created kind of a wrecking ball in your life.

Yeah. You start to reorient that you oftentimes have to change your friend groups 'cause they're not stopping doing that. And they also, the connection wasn't built on something deep. Yeah. And so the more surface type connection sometimes just fade away. What I've had a hard time with is I really tried, I can't believe I'm sharing all this.

I'm like, wow, okay. You're like, wanna make some cuts in this podcast? No, I think we should just do it, I really wanted to put it out there and I just want people to know they're not alone in these things they go through. You guys keep DMing me, keep sending me your messages.

These are great questions. Keep your comments. Yeah. Because. I am going through it too, and I'm like, hopefully want you to see that you're not the only person going through it, they're pervasive issues. These come up time and time again. What I've had a hard time with is I really put on this face of oh no, I'm still fine.

Like I'm fun, I'm just not drinking. I can still hang with everyone. And I did that for the first year and then now what am I like? Well, 13, 15 months sober. So is that a year and three months? Yeah. Okay. Well, 12 plus three if I can do math. Yeah. So 15 months sober. And I just realized I don't wanna push through anymore.

I don't want that. And so recently, like I spoke up and I was like, Hey, that's gonna be too much for me. Can we stick with our original plan instead of going here, without going into detail. And I was like, no, we're gonna do it anyways. Yeah. And I was like, oh. And what I'm realizing is I don't want these half friendships

where it's okay if I can still hang, they still love me but I'm like, do you love me if we step outta that? Yeah. That's a growth moment, right? Those are the growth moments where you're going, I'm starting to care more about the qualitative nature of my relationship. The quantitative nature of it, and I don't mean quantitative and as like a hundred friends, 'cause even, even quantitative experiences, can lack depth, whereas a qualitative nature of an experience.

And also the flexibility, the reciprocity is huge. You start to care more about reciprocity and if you've taught people that you're fluid and you just kinda go with the flow and all of a sudden you start to have more boundaries and, hey, it's not working for me, and then all of a sudden you're met with like, why are you being such, a jerk

mm-hmm. You're going, they're just not working for me. Versus, okay, catch you later. Miss you this time. When can you come again? You look for people that can hang with the reciprocity you need and also the flexibility to say, another day. I'm not gonna get mad about it.

I don't have to get my feelings hurt and then if time goes by and a friend's missing you, they say, Hey, I miss you. When can we spend time? It's been a while, versus you're the worst. You never hang out with me anymore. And it gets all reactive. Yeah. I think for me it's just oh, we'll do something again later.

But it hurt my feelings but anytime I'm like, oh, my feelings are hurt, or I'm triggered. I'm like, why is that? But if you already feel like you're in a deficit, like you're losing friends it's harder to maintain friends.

When we start noticing deficits in our life, those deficits start to matter, it's okay, what do I do with this deficit? If that deficit grows and then let's say you have 10 friends and five, and all of a sudden you have one, and then the one friend.

Isn't even staying consistent. You're going, I don't have anyone. It starts to feel, I don't wanna say scary, but that, that stresses our nervous system. 'cause again, we're being wired for connection. And while we sometimes have our family systems, our kids, our spouses, if we do, those community pieces matter if we feel like they start to get fragile or less and less,

that loneliness starts to creep in and it doesn't feel good. It can feel like at times I'm on Loner Island. I'm out to sea. You're kinda like, where are my people? But sometimes I think we get so focused on oh, that one incident, didn't work out the way I wanted it to, but there's this whole mountain right here that is working.

There's this whole mound of amazing stuff that is working. You'll find too that sometimes people are, and this is normal for humans. They're focused on what they've lost, and they stay focused on what they're losing, and they're missing what's right in front of 'em.

Mm-hmm. So a friendship that they're losing, they're missing the friend that's I can do reciprocity. Mm-hmm. And I've been waiting to hang out with you more. Yeah. Ask me, pick me. Yeah. Are we getting jackets? You say you need a friend. We need to get some jackets set. Yes. And those are the times where the, as you change your alignment and your frequency and your vibe essentially, right?

Or the way that you're choosing to live your life, then you make room as you let go of what is no longer serving your highest good, you make room for those that align with your highest good and they inevitably show up.

One day my best friend will show up. Nobody ever checks on me. Nobody cares about me. You gotta check. Ironically, the atmosphere for meeting people that connect you to your most highest good and connect to the frequency that you're radiating at, they come into your lives.

If we stop over focusing on what we lost we can get stuck in that. Sometimes it's not even a loss, it's just a pause for a second. Yes. Let me pause on that and let's circle back around.

I think the most generous thing we can do in our friendships, doesn't mean you don't navigate disappointment, but there's so many times where, I'll have friends that change plans and I haven't seen 'em for a while, and I find myself disappointed, but I go, Hey, let me know when it does work.

It's just the flexibility and the day that I see you is a good day. So just lemme know when that can happen. It is just this beautiful, space of you matter to me. Making memories matter and connection matters. So when and where we can do it amidst our sometimes busy lives like.

I'll take you up on it, right? Yeah, let's do it. Versus this, another thing you canceled. I guess that means that you don't like me that much anymore. We make some of these stories up and if we think that, okay, we live in a ghosting culture and it bugs me. It's too easy to ghost people, it's too easy to, think of these narratives in our head without checking them out, I thought that you were mad at me.

Like, why didn't you ask me? He didn't, there's not one conversation we had and you've decided these seven things. I know. I'm sitting here talking to you and Im like, maybe I just decided a lot of this stuff in my head you wanna check out with people I came and seen you for while I really miss you?

Mm-hmm. Are we good? And not in a anxious we, good way, I'll suffocate you, but more just okay, I'm having these feelings, I'm having these thoughts. Lemme just check 'em out. Especially if they're our friends or people that we care about, they ought to be able to weather those conversations.

I've just been really busy. Life's been snowing me lately and yes, let's plan a date. But if I have to change it, just remember I did wanna hang out. And just have some of that, that, that communication I did get written out of my friend, military mom group.

We would all go to dinner and stuff together. I couldn't make it. What happened is, I forgot, but what had happened was I had a therapist who put me on some like crazy high antidepressants, because my husband had deployed and I'd had a baby. I was saying I need help, and he is take these. And then he was like, let's take more of them. I was crazy. Yeah, Jenny, I bet nuts. And then I go in and I'm like, Hey, I don't really feel like I should be taking these, this is like a year later, and he goes, well just stop taking 'em. Cold Turkey, okay. I was on something major too, you guys.

I had no business being on. I'd asked for Lexapro. Wow. So I was having like psychotic breakdowns, I was missing pieces of time. And anyways, I missed the dinner that we were all supposed to be at.

Yeah. And they were like, just wrote me out because of that. Instead of, Hey sis, what's going on? How we missed you? This isn't your usual behavior. What's going on? Or, or Hey, are you okay? And I'm sure it was acting a little erratic, but if, especially if there's all of a sudden behavior that's outside of it, instead of react to it and be like, well, get that person outta here. Hey. Are you okay? Like you need some help? What can I do? Since I've gotten sober too, I can look back and actually see all the times that I did that to people.

You wanna cut back on drinking? Fuck that. I'm done with them. Or, I don't have the tolerance for that. So honestly, sobriety's given me a big mirror to look at myself it's beautiful. And the growth has come as a result of that. What I would call the sandpaper of what it means to create healthier relationships for yourself and sometimes not, because when my drinking body wasn't healthy as much as my life is starting to align in a more collective health pie, that needs to include sometimes some different people.

We're gonna move on to family identity. This is a really big question. Oh, okay. Hopefully none of my family listens. For someone who grew up in a home where drinking was normalized or even encouraged, what does re-parenting look like in sobriety? Re-parenting with yourself, I think.

Oh yeah. I was like, how do we wanna define that word? That's tough because it's gonna inevitably, now you have a different filter to go back over your childhood with, and you're going to sometimes see more stress fractures in the way that the dynamic of the home was. Safe experiences, not safe experiences.

And I don't even mean physically. Sometimes even if your emotions were safe, if there was room for, if alcohol was a big piece and people were in blunted spaces, and especially if it was excessive, then you start to go, oh. My sense of safety or my ability to rely on these caregivers sometimes was not as consistent as maybe I remember.

And it starts to help you understand maybe some of the core beliefs that you developed, and you have to start going in and going, well, I don't wanna believe that anymore, or, I wanna heal from that experience now. So it can create some stress fractures in family systems where it's all of a sudden well, now that I'm looking at it from a different lens, like mom.

Hey dad, can we have a conversation? And if they don't wanna have those conversations, then it's more inward. Kind of landscape of, of this, of exploring some of those things and going, okay, I have a better sense of how my childhood was shaped and some of the things I decided as a result of the impact of this substance on my parents.

And also my, acceptance of substances may be much more easily in my years to come. You know what's so interesting to me when I look at my childhood, and this is said with a lot of love, but I was like, I'll never smoke weed. 'cause there was marijuana use going on.

Funny, there was some marijuana use going on and I was like, I would never smoke that. But there was also alcohol going on and I was like, oh, I'll totally drink that. It was so funny how it got just. Well, actually I know what it is. It was the DARE program. Yeah, it's the DARE program. Red Ribbons. I was like, their drug addicts.

They're drug dealers. I remember thinking I needed to call the police. I was a kid. Oh my gosh. Oh my God. We just, okay, we're gonna put that away. Yeah. Did we just did some serious healing there. Yes, we did. Yeah. But it was just, it's interesting how you'll accept one thing but not the other.

Yeah. That's why I think conversations, if there's gonna be substance in the home, like we have wine bottles that don't drink a lot, and different religious beliefs from home to home and things like that is sit in the, the kids down and just educating 'em. You know what I do with my boys who are now 19 and 17?

'cause it's not, if it's one. They get exposed to different things and challenges. It's make an informed decision I can't follow you around making sure you do or don't do these things. The better educated you are and, and, and if, if I've caught them doing something that's teach so they'd be freaking out.

Teach me about this. What is this? Kids respond well to. Yeah. Or are they like, oh my god, mom? Yeah, they have, because I made it really safe to have those conversations. I may disagree with something they're doing. I don't think it's great for developing brains to have a lot of exposure to substances, right?

They're still trying to, to really cement and format. It's helping 'em understand that without being like, I'm done. The encyclopedia says that you shouldn't, it was like not coming in a lecture form, but more Hey. Make the best informed decision. 'cause you understand collectively how this is gonna impact you on multiple fronts.

And if you make those conversations safe, and again, you can disagree I'm gonna still do this thing well then, and here's what I decided about the consequence of that in our household especially with minors. But at the end of the day, the safer that you make those conversations with your kids, especially as they're going into.

Adulthood, the less they're going to bench you in the most difficult times of their life if they're having difficult times, you want to be called into the game first. You don't want them to bench you I still call my mom in my worst moments. Because it's safe to, mm-hmm.

My kids know that if they're in a pickle at 2:00 AM I'm gonna save the lecture and just be good. Hey, you're safe. And I think that's why it's been so easy to talk to my mom about a lot of things. There are a lot of things that I feel like are off the table, yeah. Not because of her, just because I don't wanna discuss that with my mom. But. There's been so many things, where you call and there's no judgment. And also she's one of those, it's well let's fuck them up. How dare they, get the shovels. And I'm like, well no mom, this is my fault.

Are you sure? Yeah. Because it's not, yeah. No, I think it's important to have safe containers even if you disagree with what's happening, you can have the disagreement later, sometimes just re create safety, like reclaim safety, and then have built enough.

Connection in the relationships that you can leverage that connection in the times that you want. You want what you say to matter, you have better worked on that relationship, or it's just another in and out of their ears. If you've built the relationship, they care about what you say when they don't have to, you're looking at young adults, they don't have to care.

They may be like, Hey, you help me pay for my phone, but they don't have to care. So when they do, it's because you've built the relationship for them to care. That's really good parenting advice in general. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. So how can someone protect their sobriety when attending family functions or holidays soaked in alcohol culture?

I think they should do what you do. Sam has a slew of emotional support drinks. She calls on her emotional support drinks. There was one time you literally, had six different drinks. It was great. Oh, I had three drinks walking in here today. I think you just have to arm yourself with, here's what I'm gonna drink.

Here's what's tasty to me. Comfort things that if I'm feeling, triggered or if I'm feeling like the urges and also be willing to remove yourself. This is a lot. Maybe I'm gonna go for a drive. I'm just gonna step outside. Yes. Get my bearings down. 'cause again, it's window of tolerance and it's thresholds.

If your thresholds are getting blown, 'cause all of a sudden you're having to fight too many urges. You gotta remove yourself from the environment. It doesn't mean you have to be like, well, I'm outta here, I'm going home as much as what does it mean to take a minute reset and can I, can I handle some of that?

Sometimes it's too much you need to remove yourself a hundred percent that's one of my things I always need to be able to leave. Yeah. And I had a shit experience in the Dominican Republic and I just felt I'm like, I can't escape this.

I have to sit here and face this. Yeah. Yeah. Which was probably good for me too. And yes, there's pushing our threshold, but not so much the recruiting ruptures and major relapses. Okay. That's, that's good for recovery. But at the same time, I agree with you, there's a time to just reset.

Give space and then there's a time to leave. Like sometimes tell your family Hey, don't take it personal. I'm working on this for myself and if I need to remove myself, it's not personal. It's safety for me. Love you guys. Don't be like, oh my gosh, she left and she's the worst.

It's Hey. The other thing I do too is I'm like, we're only gonna show up for this little window of time. I've noticed that people actually don't notice that we're not there for the whole time. Because I always had fomo, like I wanted to be the first one there and the last one to leave.

Yeah. 'cause it was more drinking time. And now you're like, Hey, we're here. And yeah. So I'll show up like we're going to eat and I'm like, oh, here's our exit. And we just leave and it works. A lot of people don't even notice. And those are the plans that you make, right?

There's some structure to that that goes, Hey, here's my plan. And this helps me always go into everything with a plan. It helps me stay sober. Self-love boundaries. Do you wanna talk about self-love real quick? Is it like through, sobriety and recovery, like how to have self love?

Yeah. So why is it so important to grieve your old life, during the healing process? Some of that's because you get to really honor, where you've came from, right? And also some of the. The challenges that were going on, and the places that you arrived, are all stretches and growth moments, I look at some of your posts over time and it's like the clap, right?

I'll be like, Sam, this is one of those moments. Soak it up. This is such a cool moment for you even I went on a run with Sam. I hadn't ran in years and she was talking to me the whole time and she's well, I guess you're just not very chatty.

I'm dying. I'm dying over here. That was some reason in my head I was like, well, she must be really fit. 'cause you're like, I'm gonna show up. And it was cold too. Winter had, but you were, and it was such a testament. The reason I share that is 'cause I hadn't ran in forever, so I was definitely outta shape and, it was also frustrating for me.

I was like, I just gotta keep, she is going I just gotta keep trying to stay up with her. I couldn't even talk 'cause I was breathing so hard and she was just talking while she was running. At one point she's well I guess she's not very ch I'm like, no, I'm listening to you.

I just can't say it right now 'cause I'm literally dying. But I was like, Sam, such a testament to, where you've come in your running journey. How many miles we're doing? Hopefully two. No, we did four. She tricked me and we did four and I'm notorious for doing that.

And you killed it. It was easy for you. That is. An example of the health you've included in your life. And so when you look at, to answer this kinda a roundabout way to answer your question, it's important to grieve and then really celebrate the place you've landed because it feels better.

It feels healthier. Even if you had never done anything other than run to help manage your sobriety, that was a win in the health of your life. Yes, but it brought you community like you and Cody's runs. Like I would look at him and be like, how is he not dying? Those two are running. I was like, 'cause he's ran more with her.

It's because Youi wasn't saying anything. In fact, the first time we did a little turnaround we were both pretty new to running, I just had a few more months on him. And I'm like, what's he doing? He didn't turn with me and he was puking. There you go. And I was like, what are you doing?

And he's well, I checked an energy drink in the car while I was waiting for you. And I'm like, why would you do that? He's like, I thought it would help me run. Nope. So it was funny. So those are the things and, you'll see this kind of, it's almost like a cliche saying, but I think it's true.

It was like, Hey, honoring every chapter of our lives. Helped get us to where we are now. And if we really are loving where we are now and feel like we're healthier than we've ever been, those moments were a part of that because in the hardest of your moments, there's a rock bottom moment where I'm not doing this anymore.

Those are huge moments too. Okay. What does long-term emotional sobriety look like when people come into you? Is there emotional sobriety? Yes. Or like physical sobriety? No. Long term emotional. Oh man. That's constant attunement to emotional regulation skills and growing your emotional intelligence.

If there's one thing that everyone has a capacity to work on, it's their emotional intelligence. It's not static, it's plastic. Like the plasticity of our emotional intelligence, like our raw intelligence will never change. I think I've said this in your last podcast. If your raw intelligence score is one 15, it's gonna stay one 15.

You're not gonna gain more IQ points, but your emotional intelligence is capable of growing. And when people are like me, not me, I'm like. Mm, that's, you owe it to yourself to keep growing your emotional skills. If you want emotional sobriety and temperance for all of the emotional storms that come our way and react less.

And it doesn't mean we're not feeling, but we're learning how to hold the emotional storms and regulate with our skills and then be thoughtful about the way we wanna respond. And that's emotional intelligence. And the more we gain that, the more we can really sit on tough.

Emotional moments with a lot of wisdom and a lot of clarity about what we're feeling and why we're feeling So many people just ride the storm of emotion. They just ride the storm of reaction like, I feel this way and I'm gonna react. Versus really drilling down and be like, well, why am I reacting that way?

And why did that bug me and what's going on with me right now? And here's how I wanna respond. Well, if I give myself three to five more seconds, I'm gonna have a better response than a reactive response. It's all attunement and, a willingness to learn those skills and that's what sobriety is to me, because that's everything I've learned in the steps, is to stop. You can even do mini inventories. How am I feeling? A lot of times the root of it is fear you can get to the root of it. Instead of drinking over it. Totally. And then your relationship with a substance can, like people do, choose to have a drink or whatever is, is more thoughtful, right?

You're not using to blunt, you're not using to numb, you're not using to escape. But also, a lot of people and they've. And I, I've seen this with a lot of celebrities lately. They've been like, Hey, I'm not drinking alcohol anymore. And it's been that way for a while.

And on the other end of that, they're like, man, I was using alcohol for a lot of heavy lifting and a lot of things going on in my life to deal with stress, to deal with my relationships, now they're having to, they've created this incredible attunement, and this isn't just them, but people.

Okay. Real quick though, have you seen. Brad Pitt, he's popped back up sober. I listened to something from Tom Holland. His was great. Tom Holland's been sober for a hot minute, not too long, but Brad Pitt has just reappeared. He kinda disappeared, had the divorce, there was all that nasty stuff going around.

He definitely looked like shit and, I don't know him personally, but the public view, I was like, oh man, he's got something going on. He's popped back up recently and he is sober. Night and day. Totally different person. And he's very openly talking about it. You start to really wear your health.

And, and health, by the way, that broad term, it's mental. It's physical, it's emotional. When you have collective health, you are vibrant, right? Yeah. Even some, this is even just silent. Like even your skin, your hair, everything just starts to change. And when you start to feel healthy, you go, I wanna keep feeling this way.

I could not imagine waking up with a hangover. The other day I woke up and I had a headache and I wasn't feeling super great and I was like, oh my God. Hear all this thing again. Headache. I started to freak out. Not 'cause I thought I was hungover, but I was like, this body keeps score.

What's going on? Tap, tap, tap, body. Bring in my conscious awareness. What's going on? Like you just need to drink some water. The attunement that I have now connected to is, oh, drink some water. Yeah, that one's not sophisticated. Jenny, thank you so much for coming on the Samantha Parker show today.

Absolutely. Thanks for being vulnerable, Sam. Those are some deep questions and I really hope they help your listeners 'cause these are questions that we'll get asked time and time again that people need help with. Well, I just wanted to talk about it. I was like, why don't I just talk where I'm at?

Yeah. And I keep saying this and I'm gonna keep saying it, but I've. Gotten really good at healing out loud and it helps me. Even if I'm just like, oh my gosh, Jenny, this crazy thing happened. Just as a friend. And I'm like, I'm not really looking for anything.

I actually feel better. Yeah. I just needed to say it. I'm just a very big fan of healing out loud. I like that sentence healing out loud. Better than saying nothing. Which then again, it's like a pinball that drops in your system. It's just mulling around versus processing and digesting life.

Emotions and then getting to the other side of it. Yes. So you have a pop in TikTok? I might be a little biased, what's your TikTok handle? It is men. Do we do men's dot counseling? Well, let's look real quick. Well, Sam's gonna look, it's men counseling, but I think it's men's dot counseling.

And Sam's doing some fantastic videos. About somatic therapy. Yeah, men counseling and emotion. Okay. And emotional regulation and some really cool strategies and techniques for healing and repairing the nervous system. You've gained like 2000 followers in the last few days. I know a lot of them of are moms mom follow party.

I'm serious. That's those if I hear that one more time, I'm just kidding. They're great. You gotta hold down on the video and then hit not interested. I do the mom follow parties 'cause they're really supportive. This platform amidst any of the others right now that I've been on, has been really interesting from a psychological point of view.

It's a fast platform and when there's support, it's like massive support. Hey, girly, add me and I wanna follow you and I'll support you. It can be a terrible place. People can be really mean, but man, there's some supportive people on there, people are so worried about that, they're like, oh, I don't wanna get on TikTok. People are clinging to Instagram it's the Titanic and I'm like, you guys, Instagram is going down. We're gonna stay on board, but I just want you to know it's not gonna Some other places.

 You might not make it to the life raft. I really like it. It's been really fun. But there are so many other platforms doing amazing things, and I don't know why we're so clinging, like clinging for Dear life. Instagram, sometimes this is a good metaphor.

Sometimes it's what was versus what can be. YouTube is at the top of the food chain for sure. I need to get that going. We're gonna get you. So tune in. I've got some cool stuff coming. You do some really great videos on TikTok.

She's talking about a subject and she's giving really good tips, so you guys will wanna check it out. Mend Doc counseling on TikTok. You're on Instagram. Men counseling, Facebook. Yeah. And then of course, online. Yeah. Your website. Yep. If you're in southern Utah, you can go see them in person.

We have an incredible team. I've got 11 other therapists and they're all doing such great work. I love the team that we've built there. If you're not though, just go give her a follow on TikTok. And you'll get a lot of value there too. Well, and I can give, if you gimme your zip code, I can also help you find somatic therapists if you're outta state.

Do you answer all your dms, Yes. I know you do your comments. Yeah. Yeah. You do a really great job. That is one thing I've made a promise with God that I will answer anyone who reaches out for help. Yeah. That's cool. I feel like you're doing that. I do. Some people are like, I'm surprised you responded.

I'm like, oh, I don't know why I wouldn't. I wanna help you and a lot of times my help is just find an AA meeting near you. And they're like, well, and I'm like, no, find an A. Yeah. So start with one step. But I will listen to you.

So please reach out. You guys, reach out to Jenny and thank you so much for being with us today. Thanks for having me, Sam. I love being here.