Overcoming Addiction: Katie Lain's Innovative Approach to Alcohol Recovery!

Transforming Alcohol Recovery with the Sinclair Method: A Conversation with Katie Lain

In this episode of the Samantha Parker Show, Samantha sits down with Katie Lain, founder of Thrive Alcohol Recovery, to discuss her decade-long struggle with alcohol and how discovering the neuroscience-based Sinclair Method transformed her life. Katie shares her journey from binge drinking to becoming an advocate for medication-assisted treatment and the Sinclair Method, which uses Naltrexone to help reduce alcohol cravings and promote controlled drinking. The episode covers the brain science behind alcohol addiction, the inefficacy of many traditional abstinence-based treatments, and how Katie turned her recovery into a mission-driven business. They also discuss the importance of finding the right treatment, whether it's AA, the Sinclair Method, or another path, and emphasize the need for individual motivation and gradual lifestyle changes for sustainable recovery.

00:00 Introduction to the Samantha Parker Show

00:21 Katie Lane's Journey with Alcohol

01:03 Discovering the Sinclair Method

03:37 How the Sinclair Method Works

06:10 Effectiveness and Challenges of the Sinclair Method

19:20 The Role of Faith and Purpose in Recovery

21:08 Life After Alcohol

25:26 Hangover Struggles and Daily Challenges

25:46 Inspiration Behind Thrive Alcohol Recovery

26:20 Documenting the Journey on YouTube

26:47 The Evolution of Thrive Alcohol Recovery

28:08 Stigma and Labels in Alcohol Recovery

30:28 Exploring Different Recovery Options

31:36 The Role of Community and Support

34:50 Changing Drinking Trends Among Youth

36:50 Rapid Fire Questions and Personal Insights

42:17 Encouragement and Resources for Recovery

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Transcript

 welcome back to the Samantha Parker show. Today I'm sitting down with Katie Lane. You are the founder of Thrive Alcohol Recovery, welcome to the show, Katie.

Thank you. I am so happy to be with you, Samantha. Thanks for having me.

I can introduce you,  but I love to hear how people introduce themselves. Would you mind taking it from here?

Absolutely., Hello everybody. My name is Katie a big part of my story and the reason I'm on this podcast today is because I was somebody who struggled with drinking for nearly 10 years, basically my whole decade of my twenties. And, what was really fun and kind of party phase, in my early twenties quickly progressed into a daily.

Binge drinking habit around alcohol. What, I kind of realized was something that was beyond my control. I remember trying to take breaks from drinking. I'd, go, drink for, I remember my first serious break. I'd been drinking every day for at least a year. I didn't know the last day I'd gone without a drink and tried to take a seven day break I was surprised and scared at how hard it was.

I just wanted to drink every day. By day eight I was back at it that was the start of me trying and failing to either moderate or control my drinking, until, I stumbled on a treatment that's actually a neuroscience based treatment that's been around for decades, but most people don't know about it.

That completely changed not only my drinking but my life. Starting in 2017, and I've just been an advocate for it, and now I work in the field full-time helping people through this treatment.

Okay. I'm excited to dive into this because I and so many other people just kind of white knuckled it. So I have a lot of questions for you. So this is gonna be like a total q and a

cool.

think this is also awesome to offer people like a different perspective on, alcohol addiction recovery and different things that you can do besides just go to AA and figure it out, 

yeah.

Okay. So you spent 10 years, or an entire decade as a high functioning drinker and you had tried many things, then discovered the Sinclair method.

Backed medication assisted treatment that doesn't require total abstinence. Do you still drink a little bit or are you completely No alcohol.

I am no alcohol today. What's cool about this treatment and unique is it's not abstinence based. And I'll just say by the way I have mad respect for people who are able to quit cold Turkey and stay sober. I tried and tried and I couldn't do it. I made it six months one time and I just wanted to drink every day and ended up relapsing of course.

With this treatment, I quit drinking. I tell people by accident because I went on it. Knowing it would allow me to drink if I wanted to, and I could drink like a normal drinker. It did that for me for the year I was on the protocol. After about a year, I became uninterested in alcohol to where I would, forget to drink.

A month would go by and I'd be like, I didn't even drink this month. What the heck? I just didn't even think about it, didn't want it. And then after four months of not drinking, I was like, maybe I'm not gonna drink anymore. And that was in 2018. But today I still haven't drank since. September of 2018 as we're recording today.

What's unique about this treatment is if I wanted to drink tomorrow, I can. I would follow the Sinclair Method protocol. It's nice to know alcohol's not a forbidden fruit. If I were to drink, I would probably have one, maybe two drinks and be satisfied, not able to drink more, which I know goes against traditional treatment .

This specific protocol. Is totally different. It's night and day from trying to moderate or quit before it compared to what it's like going through it.

I am so interested. For you guys listening we're gonna be diving into the brain science of alcohol habits why so few people have heard of this method, and how you turned, your recovery into a mission-driven business that's changing lives. So first off, okay, is the Sinclair Method like?

Let's just get that outta the way.

Yeah, so it's named after the researcher and doctor who discovered it, Dr. David Sinclair, and it was discovered in the nineties, so it's been around for more than 30 years. And what the protocol of his method is involves taking a medication called Naltrexone that has taken one hour before. Drinking alcohol.

This medication is non-addictive. It's generic, so it's very cheap. It's been approved by the FDA for alcoholism since 1994. It's just a wildly underutilized medication, partly because it is generic and there's no pharmaceutical company out there like doing a marketing campaign behind it. Following this protocol, what he discovered in his research has proven that if this medication is taken before drinking,

this is not an abstinence-based treatment. You start it while you're still drinking. And when this medicine is taken beforehand, what it's doing is it's interrupting the reward cycle in the brain that drives the compulsive addictive behavior. By essentially sitting on receptors in your brain that would otherwise be getting this huge flood of endorphins and feel-good hormones, which essentially reinforce the addictive cycle.

Plain and simple why alcohol's addictive is 'cause it feels really good for the brain. And so this medication comes in and interrupts that cycle, kind of mutes the reward a little bit. It doesn't make you sick, it doesn't make drinking a terrible experience. It just makes it a little bit less interesting, less euphoric, I guess you could say.

 When you drink on that medication repeatedly over months and months, what the research showed, what was my experience and for many others. Is the brain gradually unlearn the association of alcohol being this primary reward. And when that happens, kind of the three markers of that are people no longer have alcohol cravings, so they're not thinking about drinking anymore.

They're not romanticizing that glass of wine. At the end of the day, it's just not a thought. That was one of the biggest gifts of the treatment for me. I didn't realize how much I was thinking about drinking until I went on this protocol. People can still drink on this treatment and typically when they get to the end point of the treatment, if and when they drink, they have control.

They have an off switch. They can stop after one or two and not feel this compulsion to keep going. They just feel satisfied. And then the third marker is most people are spending most days alcohol free, then drinking a couple days a week or a month, and drinking with moderation.

Typically, between six and 12 months on this treatment. Some get there quicker, some people take longer, but over time, most people typically see they're thinking about alcohol less. They're drinking less, more alcohol free days. Kinda like a gradual process as they progress through it.

What kind of person, I've been thinking about this all morning 'cause I'm like, is this really for ev, is it for everybody? Or do you feel like it's for a specific type of alcoholic? If you're emotionally dependent or versus if you're physically chemically dependent on it and need to detox, where does it sit?

I've worked in this field since 2018, full-time and worked with. More than a thousand people through this treatment, and I've seen it work for the spectrum of disorders from people who are mild. They're drinking three to four glasses of wine a night, but that's too much. They want to cut back and drink a couple days a week, all the way to someone who's drinking a half gallon vodka a day, chronically all day every day, and everyone in.

I've seen it work for all types now. It doesn't work for everyone. The data shows it has about a 78% success rate, which is high, the people it doesn't work for, typically see in my experience is. Potentially if they do have a severity of alcohol addiction that causes them to be physically dependent on alcohol, it can be harder for those people to see, sustained results with the treatment because they are physically dependent.

Perhaps they're not coherent enough to remember to take the medication correctly. Perhaps they're just drinking so much so quickly that they're not even noticing the effects of the medication. But with that said, I've seen it work for those people. But sometimes people who are in that severe case.

I've, talked with a couple of people who went through detox first and then did this treatment to essentially heal the brain of the addiction so they're not just craving it and fearing a relapse. The number one driver of who it works for, and maybe this is obvious, is when someone really has intrinsic motivation to change.

I work with people who. They're drinking a bottle of wine at night and a part of them wants to change. But on the other hand, they love that bottle of wine and they look forward to it and they romanticize it. And so they're following the protocol, but they're kind of fighting the protocol.

They still wanna have their cake and eat it too. They wanna have that bottle of wine and they wanna drink less, but you have to pick. Regardless of how severe your alcohol dependency it can work for the spectrum. The, main driver is the desire and motivation to change if you have that,, you'll be willing to take the medication follow the protocol correctly, and you'll be willing to stick it out for the long haul.

One final thing I'll say is. Sometimes people criticize me. A pill's supposed to fix your whole drinking issue? I never say that. Like for me it was just an extremely powerful tool that quieted, the urge and the craving to drink so I could then think, I drink every day.

I don't wanna drink every day. How else do I wanna spend my time? Or I always drink when I'm stressed and I don't wanna rely on alcohol in that way. How else will I cope when I'm stressed? The medication gave me the space to be able to do this in our work to really heal rather than just. Fighting an urge to drink every day.

I liked that you used the word protocol because one of my big questions was how do I quit drinking?

Yes.

wanted, a list. I went to AA then, after six months decided to work the steps and things like that, which is that inner work. I really enjoyed it, but at first I was just like, do you do it? It would've been great to have some kind of protocol you were working through. Can you gimme like

Yeah.

a little insight into what that protocol looks like?

Typically when someone's starting on this treatment, we kind of have designed a program in the organization, I run because I've been coaching people over the years and kind of seen what's. Needed as people progress through the protocol. So typically when they start the treatment, they are starting by taking the medication before drinking as prescribed, just by doing that piece alone, so much is changing, even though you're just taking this little pill before you drink.

So much is changing in your brain with how you respond to alcohol, how you experience alcohol and all of that. And so within the first month or so, we're encouraging people. Just start taking the medication and if possible, start logging drinks. That's another really helpful mindfulness technique just to know is my drinking improving? Where's it at? Where's my craving level? And all of that. So that's the foundation because without the medication consistently working in the background, the brain will not unlearn the disorder. Then we transition people into practical, simple things that they can do to drink more mindfully.

Bringing that unconscious habit of drinking where we just kind of open up the bottle and drink in front of Netflix and don't really think much about it. We're bringing that into the conscious awareness so people are more critically thinking about, do I want that other drink?

Am I just automatically pouring it? Where's my craving level at? Did I have a full meal before I started drinking? There's 1,000,001 things people can do to. Bring more mindfulness into a typically mindless habit of drinking a lot, and then also cultivating different habits and hobbies outside of alcohol.

I was a daily drinker. I didn't even know what I like to do apart from drink on my free time, to be honest. So it was like, okay, I have to put myself out there, stretch myself learn new habits and ways to spend my time, and then also cultivating different coping skills. We work with people who are different.

Styles of drinkers to kind of your point earlier, like some people who are more stress drinkers or more party drinkers and everywhere in between. So it's really working with the individual to see, okay, what's your pain point with alcohol right now and how can we take practical steps to help you shift habits and behaviors to more, healthy or helpful.

Ones as opposed to just constantly leaning on alcohol. The final thing I'll say is typically changes with treatment are gradual subtle, but continuous. In our program, we're always encouraging, okay, what's one to three small goals you're focusing on this week? Just nail that and then progress from there.

Those are the most sustainable ways to change. The relationship with alcohol what I've found.

You're taking a medication, but pairing it with a massive lifestyle change

A hundred percent. The medication,

to do 

go ahead.

Oh, and you're providing them with the tools

yeah. I think sometimes, as Americans we're like, cool, A pill can fix everything. But naltrexone is not like Tylenol where you take it and 30 minutes later your headache's gone. It's not like you take it and your alcohol addiction's gone. But what it does is I.

Said it just like interrupts that reward cycle so the brain can gradually unlearn the addiction. But if you're not meeting the medicine halfway and thinking about your relationship with alcohol and changing habits, we can still drink habitually, even though we don't really want to. Naltrexone can quiet the craving, but like we can eat a pin of ice cream when we're not hungry, people will still down that bottle of wine, even though they're like, I don't really want it, but I don't know what else to do with my time.

Essentially.

Why do you think this approach isn't more widely known despite decades of research behind it?

Yeah, I think a few reasons. Number one, the current treatment system as it exists today is strictly abstinence based. Set up around, you go into rehab, detox, maybe you stick around for 30 days, or maybe it's an outpatient treatment, but it really is centered around. You're an alcoholic and you can't touch alcohol again, there's no real talk in my experience.

Maybe this is changing now, but nobody's really talking about the neuroscience of alcohol addiction. It's more of a character defect or an allergy that you have to alcohol and you just can't touch it. That's just who you are as a person. You're an alcoholic. And so with this system, the way it's set up, it's not conducive to suggesting that someone can.

Get a cheap, generic medication and not even go away to rehab, do this treatment privately from home without having to tell anyone. And hey, you actually don't have to quit drinking either. You can start while still drinking and help your brain unlearn the addiction. The system as it is not set up to support this model of harm reduction or alcohol reduction

sad to say, it's a multi-billion dollar industry that counts on repeat clients. Insurance companies pay for these 30,000 a month rehab, $3,000 a month rehab, and all of that. So that's one component. Another one is that naltrexone is generic. When I've gone to addiction conferences and tried to talk to this.

Talk about the medication to leaders in the field they're like, we know about naltrexone. We just believe abstinence is best. They just don't really, there's not enthusiasm around it. Because it is generic, there's not a commercial on TV about it because pharmaceutical companies aren't making money off of it.

And then finally, people that would typically be prescribing this would be like your general doctor. We go for our physical, we say how much we're drinking. If the doctor sees that it's a lot, they could be like, Hey, there's this medication that can help you drink less. But a lot of doctors simply do not know about Naltrexone at all.

Or if they do know about it. They're misinformed. I've heard many stories of the lack of knowledge or awareness doctors know a lot not to knock doctors, but it's the state of things. They don't get, addiction training in medical school if they're a general doctor.

They won't feel comfortable even if someone comes to them and says, can I get naltrexone? So many times this happened to me? They'll be like, no, you need to go to rehab or aa, they just won't touch that disorder. That's why it's not more well known, even though it's been researched and continues to be researched, the last 30 years.

We're seeing a lot of that

yep.

You described alcohol addiction as a learned behavior. Can you unpack for me how it gets wired into your brain?

I credit that to David Sinclair. That was part of his realization that, we're not born addicted to alcohol. Some of us have the genetic predisposition that maybe we're more prone to it if we choose to drink, but nobody comes out and is, addicted to alcohol. It's something that happens by repetition of the behavior.

Over time. So like in my case, I had the gene, and if I would've just drank a glass of wine once or twice a week with dinner, I probably would've never developed an addiction to alcohol. But the addiction set in for me because I was repeatedly drinking every day to excess. And when we do that. It fundamentally changes the wiring in our brain because alcohol, when we consume it, like I said, it floods the brain with all these feel-good hormones and things like that, which is why, when I first started drinking red wine, I was like, this stuff is disgusting, but I learned to love it because it gave my brain all this.

Pleasure, euphoria, buzz it's learned over time because the part of our brain impacted by alcohol addiction is the part that's also really driving our survival. And so the things that we need to survive are often pleasurable, like food and sex and connection. And when we consume alcohol and kind of flood that.

Artificial pleasure into the brain over and over again. The brain adapts and it changes to start to look to that pleasure thinking mistakenly that it needs it for survival. Food is pleasurable. Okay, I'm gonna, crave food when I'm hungry. This alcohol's giving me way more pleasure than food.

It must be really good for my survival. I'm gonna remember that and start to crave it whenever I don't have it thinking it's helping me survive. By repeatedly drinking over time, especially to excess and consistently, almost anybody can develop an alcohol use disorder or a learned behavior because just by doing the behavior it changes the brain fundamentally.

This is a really interesting conversation because for me it just needed to go,

Period, end of story. and I don't know what it would've been like to try this. And I'm wondering if for me, I would've been like, oh, I'm taking this medication.

See, I'm fine. I was really good at virtue signaling myself,

I don't know if you, because there's something else that's part of David Sinclair's research, which I really identified with and found interesting. I don't know if you do as well, but it's called the Alcohol Deprivation Effect, which it's been researched and people can look up papers on it.

 It actually shows that when the brain is addicted to alcohol and it has changed, and then we abruptly quit drinking and go cold Turkey, the brain gets. Deprived of the endorphin reward it's used to getting from alcohol. When we're deprived of anything, what happens is we end up wanting it more.

We're thinking about it for a lot of people, myself included, we quit drinking, but we're still thinking about it. We're still craving it. We're fighting that urge every day. I believe that's why, traditional treatments have a relapse rate of 80% or more. Very high. Did you experience that deprivation?

Were you craving or thinking about alcohol when you quit?

Yes, but I was already so obsessed with it, it consumed my daily thoughts from when I woke up to when I went to bed 

same.

it go too, was how much it consumed my thoughts. It has taken me a while, but I feel like it's great

Yeah.

all this mental freedom back.

Yes, a hundred percent. The brain can change. We're not gonna be stuck there. And I feel like if everyone's talking about biohacks I feel Naltrexone and the Sinclair method is the greatest biohack to hack your brain, to unlearn alcohol addiction for me, the desire to drink was non-existent.

The thoughts about alcohol were non-existent. It was very easy to stop drinking as opposed to before I'd be like, okay, just don't drink today. Just don't drink today. It's still very much. Controlled my thought life, like you said.

I had to replace, the dopamine. I started running, I was like

Yeah.

Those habits, exactly what we were talking about at the beginning of this interview. Any place where those habits were consumed by alcohol, I had to find something else to fill it

yeah, and that's true with the Sinclair method too. If we don't do that, people continue drinking even though they don't want to. I hear from people. I don't feel like it, but I don't know what else to do. But that's part of this process.

Yeah, which shows why much of this is an emotional process you have to look at your life and overhaul it. Whether you're choosing to take medication or

Yeah. When we've been drinking a long time, our identity gets wrapped up in it. I'm the partier. Always down for happy hour wine tasting. And to go from being that to putting on this whole new identity it's a process and painful.

There's awkward conversations, but once you go through it. You don't have to keep doing it there's so much change involved when we change our drinking.

Yes. In your own recovery, let's shift gears ready Katie?

I am ready.

In your own recovery, what role did faith or a sense of purpose really play for you?

I came to Faith after I was sober for two plus years. Before that I was really big into new age practices. Manifestation, definitely like hungry for knowledge truth and experiences. You mentioned purpose, I remember reading Man's. Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl, if I'm not butchering that title, when I was on this treatment.

And that really spoke to me because that book, for those that don't know, it's a man who was in the concentration camps and attributes his survival to having purpose and meaning in his life. And without that, we lose our will to live. So I think that's another huge piece for us to find meaning and purpose in our life.

In order to have something more to live for than just the substance or drink. I am not lying when I say that drinking was my purpose for 10 years. I worshiped alcohol every free moment I wanted to drink, whether it was 10 in the morning or 10 at night, no matter where I was, it was a daily thing and taking that outta my life.

Left a big hole, but at the same time, I just felt when I was drinking I was living out of integrity I had no purpose in life. Apart from that, I would take jobs that were, boring just to be able to show up to work hungover function and not get fired, having purpose and meaning is vital to healing journey and recovery. For me, I was so hungry for that. And I think ultimately what I was hungry for was like the truth, like capital T truth, and that's how I ended up becoming, following the path of faith I'm a Christian.

I follow Jesus Christ and read the Bible, and I'm not here to push that on anybody else. I think we all need to discover that for ourselves, but whatever that is for you, I think if you're hungry for a purpose or passion or things like that, that if you keep searching it you will find it.

You set alcohol down your mind is clear and you realize there's so many other things going on.

Yes.

all the time?

I'm like, what am I supposed to do with all the free time now that I'm not drinking? And now it's like my life is so full with so many things, I look back on that time honestly, with remorse and sadness.

It is kind of sad to look back on the life I was living for 10 years, thinking alcohol was the best thing ever. And I think one of the gifts through this treatment, because it fixed my brain and I could see alcohol for what it is, I feel like my brain was restored back to the place it was in before I ever had my first drink.

And so I was like, why was I so in love? With alcohol. Why was it such a huge part of my life and I couldn't imagine life without it? Simply put, it's because my brain was hijacked, it had been changed, and it can change back. We're not stuck there.

Literally if you look at the science of it, and you might have more perspective than I do, but your neurons and pathways regrow.

Huh. A hundred percent. And that's the thing okay, some people find the term alcoholic helpful. Oh, I'm an addict, I'm an alcoholic. And they use that label as part of their recovery. More power to them if that helps them stay what? That's wonderful.

But for me. I never wanted to embody that identity there's so much more to me than my drinking problem. I believe that if we keep reminding ourselves we're an alcoholic, can keep us stuck frame of mind. For a long time. Again, I don't know, I didn't use that label much myself 'cause it wasn't helpful.

I think what you said, that with neuroscience and what we understand now, the brain can change at any point in life. When you feed it the information you want it can make it healthier. You can have a healthier thought life. Healthier mental health,

even if someone's in the thick of alcohol or whatever it is, realize you're not stuck it's not your identity. It's not who you are. It's just something going on in your brain and it can be completely changed.

Yeah, that's actually the cool things about our brains

Yeah,

is

I know.

something different for ourselves, be patient. You gotta be patient, you gotta wait for it, we can't just be like, I would a glass of water and it appears,

It will change.

Patience is key and consistency. It's not a quick fix even with medication it's a process of change that, requires time. If we're consistent with it, there's a whole world outside of alcohol I see that so clearly now, like I think I was so numb too.

Simple joys and pleasures, like a sunset or nature time with my nieces and nephews, I was just where's the alcohol? That was my sole focus, when I wasn't thinking about that anymore, I could enjoy these precious, joyful moments life offers us.

Yeah, that's very well said, because that's exactly how it feels, the other thing I

yeah.

is or problems. I used to make a lot bigger di out of them, I'm like, everything was such a big deal. now it's oh, okay. It might take a few days to work through it, but it's fine.

I remember like I clearly have these memories of having a messy car all the time when I was drinking a lot, and just like the idea of spending five minutes to clean out my car, I was like, oh, I don't wanna do that. Or it's stressful thing at work. I was like, oh, I need to go home and open a bottle of wine.

The word that's coming to mind is resilience. We strengthen our resilience muscle and get through harder things, what's the cliche people say, it doesn't get easier, you just get stronger, or something like that. But it's a cliche for a reason because it's true.

Have you seen that girl on TikTok who, she's like, how long does it take me? And then she times herself, like how long it takes her, she had been voiding like cleaning out her hall closet

Oh

Took her 45 minutes.

No.

Long does it take me?

I need to follow her.

She's so funny. She started going to friend's houses and being like, how long does it take me to clean out my friend's fridge? That has never been cleaned out. It's the stuff that consumes your mind oh my God, I gotta do that. And then you kinda your dirty car, you're probably like, oh my gosh, this car.

And it would've been a 30 minute thing.

Yeah, I know. It's so true. We make more of a deal out of it in our head especially true when we're in the cloud of alcohol fog living for that next drink not realizing how bad, I mean for me, I didn't realize how bad I felt every day. It had just become my new baseline normal.

A mild hangover, mild alcohol, fog, anxiety, insecurities, all these things, alcohol perpetuated and fed. As I started to feel better, I was like, dang, I was just existing in life and didn't see it when I was in it.

I was always pushing through. I would go to the gym hungover,

Yes.

up to

See.

I would do this thing when I woke up in the morning. I'd evaluate. Evaluate, how hungover am I? I could sweat this one out, or need to reschedule my whole day.

Yep. Or you wake up, you're like, oh, I feel better than I thought. And then two hours later you're like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna die. Hangovers that come in later.

I spent a lot of time crashing in the afternoons

Yeah.

I'll push through then find

Yeah.

Laying in bed watching something on my phone,

yeah. 

What inspired you to create Thrive? You've built a brand now, thrive Alcohol Recovery around helping other people.

Yeah, so it started with me just starting to tell my story on YouTube in 2017 when I learned about this treatment, because I learned about it through a TEDx talk, called How I Overcame Alcoholism by Claudia Christian. It's on YouTube. That's how I learned about it.

'cause I was always like searching, I'd listen to sober stories and I'd be like, oh, they're so inspirational. But like, how do they stay sober? Couldn't stay sober. The algorithm learned that and showed me that video and it changed my life. But I started documenting my experience on YouTube because there was nobody at that time talking about it outside of that TEDx talk.

I thought, this is too good to be true. A gimmick but within the first month of me being on the treatment, I was like. This is changing my life. I was still drinking almost every day, still drinking a lot at that point, but I could see it was changing. So I started telling people on YouTube Hey, I'm a real person.

This treatment exists. It's working for me. I kept documenting it 'cause I was getting subscribers and people were interested. That led to me coaching people one-on-one. Hosting free online groups, for people who were doing the treatment and then. That just organically involved, into what Thrive Alcohol Recovery is now, which is just a private, online comprehensive program specializing in the Sinclair method, the treatment protocol where it has everything that someone would need to do the treatment successfully.

So it really was like this organic evolution of me just like wanting to share my story and then it led to that, which is such a blessing. I never thought I would. Be working in this space. Never would've thought that, but here I am. And I love it. I absolutely love seeing people get better.

99.9% of people I work with who struggle with alcohol you would never know. They're amazing, beautiful, successful people. They have this problem, and I think as society we view it as like black and white. You're either an alcoholic or you're not. Maybe we picture an alcoholic in a certain way, which I don't love realizing this problem can impact anyone at any point it's not a reflection of who you are

it's a function of what happens in your brain when you drink repeatedly because alcohol is so accessible and celebrated it's easy to fall into that trap.

Yeah, let's sit back. One of those days where I'm like, maybe I had too much caffeine, or I don't know if I had enough.

Been there many times.

Hit me with another.

It's making me laugh. That's good.

You said the term alcoholic isn't something you love. I openly just say alcoholic. It's never bothered me. It's an easy way to describe why I don't drink

Yeah.

People can kind of relate to it. I just wanna talk to you a little bit more about that because it doesn't bother me at all.



Yeah.

this doom and gloom cloud over my head. It's just a descriptive word that is easy to relate and share.

Yeah.

Why don't you like it so much?

Yeah. I'm not offended if someone else uses it, I realize it's a term that's just like an English word that we use. for me personally, when I was struggling with drinking, I tried to identify as an alcoholic. I went to AA a couple times. Thinking that, okay, if I really

admit to the fact that I'm an alcoholic, then maybe that would help. For me, what it did personally is it caused me to behave in ways I believed alcoholics behaved, which is alcoholics drink. And they , don't have control over their alcohol. And so it wasn't helpful for my recovery. I feel that it hindered it in a way.

I remember even clearly before getting on this treatment, I was hung over one morning at my kitchen table. And I remember thinking maybe this is just the hand of cards that've been dealt in this life. Like maybe I'm supposed to die young from cancer because I'm an alcoholic. I was accepting that fact.

That's the insanity of alcohol addiction. It can rob you of your will to live to keep drinking for me personally, it wasn't helpful. It gave me more permission to drink and I just find that. With a lot of people I work with, they feel the same in that it comes with such a heavy stigma on it that they don't wanna have to put that label on themselves in order to get help.

Like I, sometimes people accuse me, oh, you're just in denial. And I'm like, I'm not ignoring that I had a problem. I will definitely admit I have a problem with drinking. I just don't wanna put this like heavy. Stigma ridden label on myself. But to each their own, it's helpful for some people.

For me personally, it just, it wasn't helpful I lean toward the medical term alcohol use disorder people make fun of me for that. But, it makes more sense to me 'cause there's a spectrum of it and it really is this, use disorder of a substance like they say substance use disorder or things like that.

That's me personally.

Yeah, what I love about, I guess a alcohol use disorder. What I love about the sobriety journey is you can do anything that works for you.

Yes.

how did you get sober? And I'm like, this is what I did, but what do you wanna do? What will hold you accountable?



Yeah.

It's your own personal journey.

Yeah, it's true. That gets to me about certain recovery groups. And I swear they're just a small minority of people that are very loud. Some people will comment on my videos when I'm like, I haven't drank in seven years, and they're like. You're an alcoholic, there's a seat waiting for you in aa.

Just wait for that relapse to come. They're so narrow-minded in thinking that this is the only way that people can get better, again, it's a small minority of people that are those loud voices. There's a lot of people that recognize who are in aa, but they're like, Hey, I know this isn't the only option that works for people. Yeah, I think for people to know there are options, I work with people who. Have been in and out of the rooms of AA for decades keep relapsing and not getting better, but they believe that's the only option. So they keep going back and it's still not working.

If you're trying something, whether it's the Sinclair method, whether it's aa, whether it's something else and it's not working, try something else. There's other options out there for you and be your own advocate and find what works for you. Because what's gonna work for one person may not work for another.

 There are options and you don't have to keep trying one. Specific treatment if it's simply not serving you and working for you.

Yes. And that's why I'm glad we're having this conversation so people can see there's a different way out there. Try something until it works.

Keep coming back till it works.

You find something that works. When I first went to aa, I kind of did have a little bit of a stigma in my head of what it was. But I was lucky enough the second time I got sober to land in a women's group,

Oh, nice.

The next available meeting, was a 6:30 PM women's group. There's business professionals, people I've done business with in this group.

Yeah.

got a wide variety of incredible women that I didn't really fill that stigma.



Yes.

like Uncle Joe drunk under the park bench with the brown paper bag. You know what I mean?

Yes, and that's a great point. Like even different AA groups, if you are interested in that, try out the different meetings and times one group is so different from another. And I think that was my problem when I went. In my twenties in a room of men in their sixties.

I was like, what is this? I can't relate with these people at all.

I have someone quite a bit younger in my life, that's struggling with alcohol and she's I go to these meetings and, we're talking 20, 30 years age gap.

Isn't gonna relate to you,

yeah, exactly. With the internet, there's so many options of whether it's sober. I find fewer harm reduction or moderate drinking options, but they exist. There are others out there. And again, with understanding of the brain and neuroplasticity. Even some people read, I'm sure you've heard of Annie Grace, the Naked Mind, like some people read that book and thinking about their drinking differently fixes it for them and realize that you're not stuck where you are and there's options out there.

Keep searching till you find the one that works.

Yes, I

I,

Immediately I went in and they were like, go to a meeting every day. I've openly talked about this, and for me, I was like, if I go to a meeting every day for the next, like they were telling me to go to 30 60 or 90 days.

Yeah.

my mind,

Yeah,

This is too much.

This is overwhelming. I run a business,

Employees, I've got kids. There's no way I am going to a meeting every day.

yeah.

I kind of adapted what would work for me, but also I had to have enough self-awareness to be like, what's gonna hold you accountable?

That's an important piece. Being honest with yourself. It's not like you weren't going to the meetings 'cause you weren't serious. It was like, I have to make this sustainable for my life and I'm not gonna drive myself insane. Just to try to go to the meetings they tell me to.

Rehab wasn't for me. 'cause we talked to a couple rehabs and the one guy was like, have you ever been to therapy? My husband was like, has she been to therapy? This spent 20 years in therapy, but then we play pickleball. I talk about this a lot on the podcast when this man was like, sometimes we go out and we play pickleball together.

I was like, what the fuck is happening?

You are like, I can play pickleball down the street and see my therapist.

community. I could just show up and find a pickup game, 

it's so funny.

Ultimately I decided that wasn't for me, but I know many, women and men, that rehab totally changed their life,

yeah, me too. My dad is sober because of aa, so I'm thankful that was there for him and helped him get through it. Yeah. Whatever works for an individual. And I think, again, back to what we were saying, I think we were earlier, that it's just this desire to change is really the baseline.

Indicator, I think if someone's gonna succeed with whatever treatment. I mean, for me I tried sobriety, moderating, and had a desire to change for years I couldn't sustain it long term, but it kept me going back and trying different things, until I finally did find the Sinclair method.

So if you have that desire, trusting that you'll find the treatment that will work for you, and yeah, be open to different options.

Okay, so I got sent this today and you might find it interesting, but there's a new study that it just dropped, but it says the US drinking rate at a new low as alcohol concerns surge. So this is the lowest the drinking rate in the US has ever been. Isn't that wild?

Whoa. I'm actually surprised to hear that

Yeah. Do you

I.

it to you?

I'm curious. I have nieces and nephews that are entering their early twenties while they're late teens still. But my brothers and sisters tell me they're not super interested in alcohol like they were at that age. So I'm like wondering, is it accounting for those individuals too?

I've heard younger people aren't drinking as much. Who knows? If it's why it is, I don't know. I don't. Do you have any thoughts on why younger people aren't, or if that's true?

of it , and I do, I have kids who are, teenagers and my oldest daughter's 20. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we are so interconnected. I know that people are like, oh, social media is the death. And I'm like, it's actually not, though. I might be a little biased 'cause that's what I do for a living,

yeah.

I think we can see people out there who are like, alcohol's dumb. And we're seeing, people start up like wellness clubs and you're seeing a lot of

Yeah.

year olds changing their life, through TikTok,

yeah.

think that there's that connection as well. And people, it just feels a lot of people are waking up.

They're like, what the hell are we doing,

yeah.

According to the study, it's at 54, 50 4% of people say they drink. The highest I ever was, was in 1976 and 19 78, 70 1% of people,

Wow.

Yeah. Now we're all the way

Wow.

which I

That's incredible.

I was like, I wonder it like skips 2020. It goes like 20 19,

Yeah.

There was a big surge in 2022 at 67% and now we're at 54.

 That's something I hear a lot. Maybe you do too. Like the people during the pandemic, they're drinking surge. Maybe they didn't have much of a problem before, but the pandemic made it worse.

it was funny it skipped over it.

Yeah.

It's not on the graph. It's funny. I'll send you this article. It's interesting.

Please do. Thank you.

I have three questions for you, some rapid fire one myth about alcohol addiction? You wish everyone would stop believing?

Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. This is something I say with caution because for some people this helps them stay sober. And so I don't wanna invite people to be like, you're not an alcoholic. Go ahead and drink. I just think people. Having that belief that they're stuck and can't get better and they're always gonna battle.

Can be unhelpful for at least the people I work with. And so realizing, again, back to the fact that we now understand, we used to believe when AA came around that the brain was permanent, that it couldn't change. But we now know about neuroplasticity and the brain can change in really powerful ways, and there's a lot of different tools out there to help it change.

For someone to know if they're struggling with alcohol it doesn't have to be that way forever. You're not stuck that way forever. Can change. Even if you use a sober path or whatever path you use, you're not stuck. Your brain can change you don't have to, put yourself in a box to be stuck in one way forever.

I love that you guys listening to that you can choose your future here. Question two.

Amen.

A book, podcast, or resource that has been pivotal in your growth and you cannot say the Sinclair method 'cause we already know that's gonna be your favorite.

Can I say the Bible?

Absolutely.

I did the Sinclair method. I was not into reading the Bible I started in 2020 I saw a video on TikTok of a girl recently and she was like, read the Bible. It's so full of wisdom and like she was just like talking about how much it's helped her and I just like everything you need for life is in that.

Those 66 books of the Bible. So I think for me, that has just been my go-to every day that I read for encouragement and wisdom and all of that. So for that has been,

a favorite book in the Bible?

oh gosh, can I pick one? It's color book. 66 books. I read Proverbs every day because there's 31 proverbs. It works well to read one a day for the day of the month. I reread that. I reread that book. Probably 20 times, 30 times. And it's just great because it's day nuggets for wisdom and daily life that are applicable to everybody.

So I, that's something I read daily. But as far as other books, oh gosh, they're all so good. Maybe the book of Romans Hebrews. Or the Gospel of John. Are probably some of my top three in the New Testament. I love the Old Testament. I heard on your podcast you were trying to read Genesis, and you're like, what is this?

I encourage people reading the New Testament first and getting to know the nature of God in that way. And then dig into the Old Testament, but once you like, I feel like understand the character of God as you learn in the New Testament, the Old Testament just allows you to understand it even deeper.

And there are some drier books, but like Jeremiah or Isaiah. Incredible, books and the Psalms and Proverbs too.

I like Psalms and Proverbs. I really enjoyed Matthew as well.

Yeah.

reading and I was watching the Chosen, so I made up characters in my head,

yeah.

was really enjoying it. I'm like, oh, I could see this playing out. But then I skipped to Genesis and had to take a little pause,

Yeah.

I heard something good.

On a podcast this man was talking about how he'd had a lot of loss, and was so angry at God he was driving in the car and was yelling. I think his son had died. Like it was something really horrible, he goes, I'm so mad this happened. He heard an audible voice from God.

God said, I'm mad too. This wasn't the way it was supposed to be.

Wow.

Really helped me understand what was going on in Genesis

That's like when you read the Bible, and particularly like for me when I read the Old Testament, I think like to what you said, it helps me see the heart of God, and I'm sorry if this is offensive to anyone who's not a believer, but I just wanna share this because it's my experience with it.

Take it or leave it, whatever. But , what I have learned since reading the Bible in 2025 and following Jesus is like he. God really is our heavenly Father, and he wants to be that father figure to us. And he loves us so much, and just as any real parent has to discipline their kids and correct them and guide them and be firm with them, but also love them.

You need that to have a loving father. When people read the Old Testament, they see cruelty or judgment of God, but we can't comprehend his. View it's always for our good, for his children. The Bible says it's for the good of those who love him, but that doesn't mean we're immune from tragedy.

In fact, I know some Christians have gone through the most horrific tragedies of our lives, and somehow God, his peace and his presence can be in that. And so for people to know I mean, in my experience, he's just, he's a father figure. The most pure sense of the word. And he, we get that. I get that.

When I read throughout the Bible, especially the Old Testament, his children are disobedient and he is constantly like correcting them and they just go astray. And he is come back to me and I'll take care of you. And they're like, no.

Yeah, a little wild. Read with an

Thank you for letting me speak about that. I usually don't talk about this stuff, on podcasts, but it's a big part of my life.

No, we should talk about this more. Why can't we?

Yeah.

And I know which episode

Good.

about my friend Ami, correct?

You mean on TikTok?

I think you said you were listening to my podcast where I was talking about.

Oh yeah, I'm sorry. That was the one.

And that's what we were saying why can't we talk about this stuff more?

Why haven't we been, 

I know. You're, what did you say? Are we both coming out or something right now I know I love that perspective , like you're giving me permission to talk about it more. I think I am a bit gun shy I used to be on the other side.

I didn't believe in God until 2020. When people would talk to me about it, I'd run the other way leave me alone. I'm very aware of that perspective of things. I think I'm overly cautious, but the Bible's the most popular book in the world. It always has been.

It's an ancient historical document. Even if you read it as an ancient book, you don't have to see it as the voice of God or whatever, but. Yeah I don't think it would hurt to read it. Even if you just read the book of Proverbs for wisdom. There's good advice in there.

Good little poems, 

exactly.

question for you, if someone's listening right now and feels stuck in their drinking, what's the very first step you'd want them to take today?

First of all, recognize that. Shame can come oftentimes when we struggle with drinking, and that's just kind of an unconscious emotion that we can't help but feel. But try not to beat yourself up for where you're at, like step number one, it can happen to anybody. Step number two is to do research.

If you're. Curious about the Sinclair method. There's so much information online. I've got tons of videos on YouTube. Look at research papers, just start researching this treatment or other treatments and see what sounds good to you. Maybe you wanna quit drinking today. One thing I'll mention, the medication use with the Sinclair method.

Some people take it every day to help with alcohol cravings. If you are like sober and you're struggling with cravings, consider asking your doctor about Naltrexone. Do research and realize that it doesn't have to be an abrupt overnight change. You can start this process. Gently, , and realize that on the other side of it is an incredible, beautiful life.

Not to say it won't be difficult, but, it's just worth, it's worth it to go through that healing journey.

It's worth it to go through life. Even if it's difficult, it's worth it to go through it sober

yes.

Better world. Okay? The other thing they could do is they could reach out to you, thrive Alcohol Recovery. What is your website?

Thrive Alcohol recovery.com. Contact info is on there. Also have a bunch of free resources blogs and videos our program, you can sign up directly on there. It's all online. It's all private. We can refer you to a doctor for the medication. I do q and As and live streams on YouTube and other social channels.

So it's all Thrive Alcohol Recovery. If you search us on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, 

I found you online and I was watching some of your videos and I'm like, she is incredible. So thank you for

Oh

A different perspective that might work for people. I appreciate your time today.

Honestly, I find you to be genuine and incredible thank you so much, Samantha, for having me on and doing the work that you do.

All right. Thank you for being on the Samantha Parker Show.

Thanks.